How to prepare for a CME in the European theatre

[bashi]

Posted by Swami (here)
@Bashi:

What kind and what amount of diodes do we need. I know the basic principles of electronics.
I bought me an old Lister 1 cil. dieselengine. I need to overhaul it. Wanted to equip it with a PMG (permanent magnet generator). Havent had the time to do it yet.

LED: Use minimum 60 degree angle for the light cone; use 3200 light , not 6000k ; dont go over 1 watt per diode; try to use ones which are integrated into any protective housing (alu) ; seal that with silicon
Danger is that somebody will connect the wrong poles, so you attach a AC rectifier bridge, which protects against this. a zener-diode of overvoltage together with a fuse will round everything up
Some garden-lights are just great: waterproof, fuse, polarity protected
LED strips are very good, check car assessoirs

.

[bashi]

Posted by Swami (here)
Cool with me, others....?

The forum is not stable today.
we have to consider that there will be no electricity. any destination which is more that 10-20 hours drive is too far; any route which goes through larger towns had to be discarded; towns/cities are a no-go (caos/traffic-jam); any route with longer tunnels have to be discarded: they will be closed, because of no ventilation.[COLOR="red"]

[samvado]

Posted by bashi (here)
[SIZE="3"][COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]any destination which is more that 10-20 hours drive is too far; any route which goes through larger towns had to be discarded; towns/cities are a no-go (caos/traffic-jam); any route with longer tunnels have to be discarded: they will be closed, because of no ventilation.

I beg to differ:

1.) All Autobahn will be free (or mostly free) the first 48-maybe even 60 hours while the mass of people wait at home for "news" or rescue. Very few will travel in such insecure times unless they must (thats before the panic).
2.) although gas may not be available in the usual ways, if you can barter some small item of use ( a pocket-knife or somesuch) you may well get it from the truck drivers, thats why diesel is so important. we are talking the first 60 hours when panic has not yet started.
4.) in 60 hours if you ride with average 80 km/h which should be possible you will get from any point in Europe to the location I proposed in Spain.
You just cant sleep much - but for 2 nights 4 hours sleep should do. I have been going 2000 km without rest before on a bike.
5.) from Hamburg to spain you dont have to go thru tunnels (you may, but you need not). I guess thats true for most locations.
I have driven this stretch at least 10 times in my life. no tunnels, no big cities. all cities are circumvented up until you reach barcelona.

[bashi]

Posted by samvado (here)
I beg to differ:

1.) All Autobahn will be free (or mostly free) the first 48-maybe even 60 hours while the mass of people wait at home for "news" or rescue. Very few will travel in such insecure times unless they must (thats before the panic).
2.) although gas may not be available in the usual ways, if you can barter some small item of use ( a pocket-knife or somesuch) you may well get it from the truck drivers, thats why diesel is so important. we are talking the first 60 hours when panic has not yet started.
4.) in 60 hours if you ride with average 80 km/h which should be possible you will get from any point in Europe to the location I proposed in Spain.
You just cant sleep much - but for 2 nights 4 hours sleep should do. I have been going 2000 km without rest before on a bike.
5.) from Hamburg to spain you dont have to go thru tunnels (you may, but you need not). I guess thats true for most locations.

you are right about the 48 hours. but there will be no police or tow-trucks to remove any vehicle which broke down. just one, which crashed into anopther that had stopped because the petrolstations are also not working. how many peolpe just now are on the autobahn, which are relying to get fuel at the stations direct there? Many
so i think you will have to reduce the radius to less than 1000 km radius in order to have a good chance to get through to the destination.

.

[bashi]

best would be to get started before even the power cuts, but that would be very difficult to determine.

[bashi]

Posted by yiolas (here)
Great thread Sam. Wish I could join you guys, but my household includes elderly parents and adult children, plus I live on an island.
I hope you guys make it ! Patrick Gerald did say that the mountains in Spain are a safe place .
Why do you say that cars will work ? I've read everywhere that the batteries will be fried.
Can you please explain.

There is one thread about EMP effects, starts here: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ull=1#post9415

[samvado]

Posted by bashi (here)

you are right about the 48 hours. but there will be no police or tow-trucks to remove any vehicle which broke down. just one, which crashed into anopther that had stopped because the petrolstations are also not working. how many peolpe just now are on the autobahn, which are relying to get fuel at the stations direct there? Many
so i think you will have to reduce the radius to less than 1000 km radius in order to have a good chance to get through to the destination.

I guess we wont agree on that then. I ride a bike, cars crashed or stopped on the autobahn are not a problem. and I dont think it will be chaos there. Most people will hurry home when the effects starts to seep thru, like no radio, no lights (if at night). They wont stay at the autobahn. so its the best free-way in the sense of the word.

In any case: I want to get to spain - thats more important then cutting on travel time. I would even prefer spain if I had to WALK.
If you can sustain yourself in austria - great. I want SECURE & WARM & FOOD. and that is spelled S P A I N.

Also: realize why I emphazise a BIKE instead of a 4-wheeler. With a 4-wheeler you need at least ONE free track at all times, and THAT is hard to guarantee in such circumstances. Jump on a 2-wheeler and you are all set.

If you prepare you dont need to bring much - if you dont prepare you almost dont even have to start.

[Swami]

Matbe its wise to look were everybody is and how to get in contact wjth each other in case of emergency. I think "plans" will change along the way during periods of emergency. Most important is to work in groups...

Sam has to come from Hamburg, Me I live in the Southwest of the Netherlands couple of hundred meters from the waterfront. Bashi is in th UK (I presume?)
Others who want to join "our"group...?

Right now I'm "able" to store 340 liters of Diesel in external cans and barrels. Times 10 km per liter gives me a radius of 3400 kilometers.

The car I drive now is up 15 km per litre of diesel which brings me to Africa if I want to but I want something stronger for them mountains.....(and pull/push away other cars in case of emergency)

[samvado]

Posted by Swami (here)
Matbe its wise to look were everybody is and how to get in contact wjth each other in case of emergency. I think "plans" will change along the way during periods of emergency. Most important is to work in groups...

Sam has to come from Hamburg, Me I live in the Southwest of the Netherlands couple of hundred meters from the waterfront. Bashi is in th UK (I presume?)
Others who want to join "our"group...?

Right now I'm "able" to store 340 liters of Diesel in external cans and barrels. Times 10 km per liter gives me a radius of 3400 kilometers.

The car I drive now is up 15 km per litre of diesel which brings me to Africa if I want to but I want something stronger for them mountains.....(and pull/push away other cars in case of emergency)

I agree on the group thing to be most important. Consider letting go of the vehicle though. I have a big camper (VW LT 40) but I wont go with that one. One blocked road and its over unless you can divert, which may or may not be possible on a autobahn. we all have to leave stuff behind, I suggest everybody takes a hard look at using anything with more than 2 wheels.

If this group grows to any size and if we all agree on bikes we could probably send a person to india and collect a few enfields real cheap. They are fun to ride too

I realize this thread is NOT shown on the sidebar of the main threads which is a shame, thats propably why we are so "private" here.

[bashi]

Posted by samvado (here)
I agree on the group thing to be most important. Consider letting go of the vehicle though. I have a big camper (VW LT 40) but I wont go with that one. One blocked road and its over unless you can divert, which may or may not be possible on a autobahn. we all have to leave stuff behind, I suggest everybody takes a hard look at using anything with more than 2 wheels.

If this group grows to any size and if we all agree on bikes we could probably send a person to india and collect a few enfields real cheap. They are fun to ride too

I realize this thread is NOT shown on the sidebar of the main threads which is a shame, thats propably why we are so "private" here.

Is the LT40 diesel?
When I was 16 years old, i was sitting on a bike behind and had a very serious accident. That cured me of riding a bike. So i do not have even a licence. Even if i would try to make one, my skills driving a motorbike would not be enough for a emergency rush down trip to spain. I would slow you only down, because i would not be able to drive fast and will need many stops. Wouldnt it be better to go in convoy bike + LT40/transporter ?

[Wood]

I am wondering why have you picked that particular area in north-western Spain? I am living in Madrid and I have considered that area as well. A few days ago I found an ad selling a few houses and lots of land a bit southern to the area you mention. I was considering whether to buy it or not but I think if a major catastrophe happens either chaos arises and land property is not a concern anymore or a sort of 'martial law' is established. I believe surviving is going to be tied to forming communities and helping people, not about going alone with a gun.

Here is the ad, google-translated to english:
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...mDEvXKbR20gJcQ

EDIT: sorry, apparently the translation is not working properly, the page keeps reloading.

[bashi]

I heard the Sierra Nevada un Spain would be a sagehaven
http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=q&sourc...382568&t=p&z=7

I'm in contact with somebody who will go there shortly, this place
http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=q&sourc...191284&t=p&z=8

As far as I understood she will be on a camping there. It could be a good place to camp out and work from. It pretty close to the mountains. She told there were caves overthere.

I dont know whether it is EQ-resistant, but the Sierra Nevada are pretty old mountains ....

End of this week I'll hear if my contract (work) will be ended or not.
I'm planning to sell my house and buy an old Landrover or Mitsubitsu Landcruiser, these cars will hold pretty long. The rest of the money I want to invest in other stuff.
Already got some waterfilters, I can distil water to make collodial silver, got the equipment to do it. Got me a small amount of MMS1.

I'm working in the supplying of fishingvessels. I can buy stuff fairly cheap, like dry batteries, generators, shackles, chains, fishingnets ropes, (MMS2? > I think we have bucket of 10 kg's in store right ow. Have to check if its the right stuff. Its Calcium Hypochlorite but I dont know if theres any additives in it, I'm no chemist. Have made a couple of photo's and will put them in a thread this evening.) solarequipment, etc.
I'm in contact with farmers where I live. I could arrange an amount of wheatseeds.
I'm in contact with logistics guys so transportation cant be to diffucult to arrange.
Got me a very small unsinkable boat (Carolina Skiff) on a trailer. Dont know if its handy to take something like that....??

I got loads of fishing equipment (rods, hooks, lines, lead, reels, etc.). I can make/braid fishingnet. Got me a box of gaintraps and food for a year.....

So far till now, your opinions please.........

I think you will have to go into areas where just few people live. With lots of trees and fresh water. The main problem in case of prolonged cut of electricity will be other people. Guys which are unprepared and will struggle to survive by ALL means.
I don`t want to create bad vibes, but i think the film "The road" puts it down very drastically, maybe too extreme, but the problem remains.

you can watch it here: http://www.movies-links.tv/movies/the_road/

[Perplex]

Ah well, advantages and disadvantages.. I guess in such a CME scenario , it can get hard to find a safe-heaven for people living in high ICH countries .. I live in Romania near the mountains , in one of not many "evolved" cities, more or less. But not further than 50-70km away are villages where some houses don't have electricity at all, even now .. Other smaller villages live like that ever since. So I suppose a CME won't even be felt in some of these regions ... Not to mention the only weapon they have could be a knife, a fork, or worst case scenario, an axe . But I still don't recommend anyone coming here in case of a CME lol

[haibane]

Posted by Perplex (here)
Not to mention the only weapon they have could be a knife, a fork, or worst case scenario, an axe . But I still don't recommend anyone coming here in case of a CME lol

I think you'll be surprised when they dig out old rifles and such like from bellow their kitchen floor or in their gardens, well preserved from the times of WW2 or even older ... Such are the habits in such remote places where people have always had to fend for themselves, along with hiding booze and other valuable stuff in this manner : )

[Wood]

Hunting is popular in Spain and I think I've read there are around two million shotguns/rifles around. I know in rural areas it is quite common for people to have one at home. In particular, in remote areas in the north-west of Spain there are plenty of wildlife like wild boars, deer and even a few wolves, and bears are being re-introduced.

[samvado]

WHY SPAIN

I have been thinking about relocating for a while now. I started off with EARTH and cut the regions that didn't apply or didnt appeal.

1) It had to be Europe because I had to be able to GET there by land within rasonable time, in case of emergency even with a bicycle.
2) It had to be WARM because keeping you warm in winter is half the years work .
3) It had to be WARM because things grow easier and more often where its warm and you dont need as many cloth
4) It had to be somewhat elevated (above 200m) to avoid small to medium tsunamis
5) It had to be lightly populated with big cities far away or hard to reach or no being in the obvious path of someone leaving such a city in search for supplies
6) Land had to be cheap
7) It had to be possible for a German to legaly obtain land
8) Major war zones had to be far away
9) Water would be advantageous but not essential if it rains, if no rain a well is a must
10) If the local are accustomed to foreigners it would be much eaiser to settle in (like in tourist regions) - but not a major tourist region because too many would know about it.
11) caves or defunct slopes and tunnels nearby are a plus
12) Not a small island because sooner or later you will be found by the wrong people

If you put these all together you get the region in spain I suggested.

[Wood]

Posted by samvado (here)
If you put these all together you get the region in spain I suggested.

I happen to know well the area you have chosen. I think it is a good option (I'll probably be around there if anything bad happens) but not exactly as you expect. Winters are cold there with snow, plenty of rain and cold days. Think of a weather similar to that of the atlantic coast of France or to southern England, but with warmer summers. It is not a dry area, you'll find plenty of natural springs and rivers, and rain. Land is not as expensive as in other sunnier areas of Spain but not as cheap as it used to be due to the property bubble. Also land is very divided and it might be hell to locate the owners since they'll likely be living elsewhere. People is definitely not exposed to foreigners apart from pilgrims in the Jacob's trail. Also people there tend to not speak spanish but 'galician' (and very few english or other languages). Locals understand spanish but are not used to it. I think that should not be a big problem if you speak spanish but a minor issue. Finally, locals tend to be older people since younger couples have migrated to cities (maybe this will revert if there is a catastrophic event).

Regarding height, central Spain (Castilla) is surrounded by mountains and it is quite high. Madrid for example is 700m from the sea level. The area you have chosen is part of those mountains.

There is an international 'eco-village' in the area but I suspect it is not quite what you have in mind: http://translate.google.com/translat...tm&sl=es&tl=en

EDIT: Anyone interested just google for 'Matavenero', it seems there is plenty of information about it including photographs and videos.

[Swanny]

Best bet is a sail boat

[samvado]

Posted by Wood (here)

EDIT: Anyone interested just google for 'Matavenero', it seems there is plenty of information about it including photographs and videos.

amazing coincidence, a spanish friend of mine from gomera who has a business in madrid just a few days ago sent me the link for that commune. Quite a few germans live there it seems. It is pretty hippie but not bad to have as neighbors. I am possibly going this summer to visit and check it out.

thank you for the other info, very interesting. and no. unfortunately I dont speak any spanish, but am willing to learn :-)
gomera, where I spend most of the time in spain, really is german with spanish government.

would you know prices for plain land (no buildings) per square meter or acre ? I searched but couldnt read the ads.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Swanny (here)
Best bet is a sail boat

yes, if you have one (expensive) and live near a river

[bashi]

Posted by Swami (here)
Matbe its wise to look were everybody is and how to get in contact wjth each other in case of emergency. I think "plans" will change along the way during periods of emergency. Most important is to work in groups...

Sam has to come from Hamburg, Me I live in the Southwest of the Netherlands couple of hundred meters from the waterfront. Bashi is in th UK (I presume?)
Others who want to join "our"group...?

I am in Germany.