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Thread: Just wondering

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    What purpose is served by the illusion of being separate from Source?
    According to Rupert Spira,

    Source did not need to create illusion to know itself however it did need to create illusion to know a world. It was a demonstration of it's infinite potential.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    I would say for the Fun of it, or as Ron said (and Bill Hicks) the thrill of the ride. "It's just a ride." But we take it so seriously. And that's because this realm is so dense and heavy. Heavy, man...

    Don't Worry should be our mantra. Interest, concern, okay, but don't worry. What's the point? We're all God. This all happened long ago. We've died and been reborn. And we're already perfectly imperfect.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Conditioning is very powerful--its hard to get rid of the idea that the Creator has human characteristics anthropomorphic is the word I was looking for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism
    No desires needs or wants--perfect.

    So being human we want to know why!!
    This implies cause--
    In non-duality there is no subject and object --nothing to cause-nothing caused--it just is.
    A timeless eternal "Ocean" of consciousness.
    There are appearances in consciousness --like the rise an fall of waves which are water--not in anyway seperate from the ocean. No separate existence
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Another question:

    Why incarnate on a 3rd dimensional world and pursue a mission while in complete amnesia?
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 6th November 2019 at 14:41.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    Another question:

    Why incarnate on a 3rd dimensional world and pursue a mission while in complete amnesia?
    That might be a little bit like saying: why go climb a mountain, but sprain your ankle?

    (Or play a football game, but get tackled hard and tear a knee ligament? Or get married, but later get divorced?)

    Those may be poor analogies! But maybe readers might get the idea. 'Games' (i.e. purposeful activities that are designed to be often challenging but usually fun) have inherent risk and uncertainty, and that's the value of playing them.

    There are no games without barriers, difficulties, problems, and/or opposition. And sometimes handicaps, too. Being a human on Planet Earth has plenty of those.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    If this is a multidimensional chess game for consciousness, perhaps we are better prepared to win than I am currently aware.

    To play on an even playing field is very poor military planning.

    If this were a military operation, the plan would be to prepare for the contest with much training and creating overwhelming odds in our favor. And maybe we have. Perhaps playing the game in complete amnesia is more exciting and makes winning a bigger thrill.

    In joy, safety and harmony, we step into the unknown.
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 6th November 2019 at 02:01.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    Another question:

    Why incarnate on a 3rd dimensional world and purse a mission while in complete amnesia?
    Without the initial amnesia we couldn't, wouldn't focus in the direction required to create an extension of experience.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    Another question:

    Why incarnate on a 3rd dimensional world and purse a mission while in complete amnesia?
    I ask this question too.

    This is what I have so far, itís not much but this much I know. Staying with the analogy of a game, amnesia is built into the game as a limitation, but the limitation is actually an aid, even though itís experienced as the opposite. Itís directly connected to the purpose of life, this is not necessarily the only reason we have amnesia, but certainly one of them.

    Weíre not allowed to come in remembering the purpose of life, and yet the purpose of life is obvious, itís right in front of us, we know it but donít realise we know it because we donít recognise it for what it is.

    This is what I suspect from what I sense of it. If we were to come in knowing/ remembering, it would defeat the purpose. It would be like finding a cheat in the game that makes it pointless to continue, rendering all following action meaningless, it would effectively break the game. However, if you manage to see it for what it is and remember what this is all about, without the cheat, youíve probably clocked the game.
    Never give up on your silly, silly dreams.

    You mustn't be afraid to dream a little BIGGER, darling.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Innocent Warrior (here)
    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    Another question:

    Why incarnate on a 3rd dimensional world and purse a mission while in complete amnesia?
    I ask this question too.

    This is what I have so far, itís not much but this much I know. Staying with the analogy of a game, amnesia is built into the game as a limitation, but the limitation is actually an aid, even though itís experienced as the opposite. Itís directly connected to the purpose of life, this is not necessarily the only reason we have amnesia, but certainly one of them.

    Weíre not allowed to come in remembering the purpose of life, and yet the purpose of life is obvious, itís right in front of us, we know it but donít realise we know it because we donít recognise it for what it is.

    This is what I suspect from what I sense of it. If we were to come in knowing/ remembering, it would defeat the purpose. It would be like finding a cheat in the game that makes it pointless to continue, rendering all following action meaningless, it would effectively break the game. However, if you manage to see it for what it is and remember what this is all about, without the cheat, youíve probably clocked the game.
    Is that Rachel? Hi Rachel.

    Weíre not allowed to come in remembering the purpose of life, and yet the purpose of life is obvious, itís right in front of us, we know it but donít realise we know it because we donít recognise it for what it is.

    When you say it's obvious, do you mean remembering that we're a part of everything and there's no division between us and the all and therefore nothing to fear?

    The amnesia thing is interesting. Our biology and nerves are caught up in that. We get nervous or jangled or anxious and that seems to set us back. We're not so sure for a bit about who we are and the purpose and meaning. The body and materiality, all the Stuff around us and the stuff that makes the stuff around us, keeps us forgetting.

    Total faith. Can that break us thru? Slip us through?

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by petra (here)
    A child forever?!? How horrifying....
    since the subject is illusion, I will change my avatar (name) to Hagar, the horrible


    Last edited by rogparan; 6th November 2019 at 05:56.
    here I am, but I don't belong to this world
    So, nothing there are here belongs to me.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Aragorn (here)
    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    What purpose is served by the illusion of being separate from Source?
    As greybeard stated, it's all about subjectivity and objectivity. Source is a quantum singularity, an infinite field of potential, but this potential has no meaning at all when you're the only thing in existence capable of thinking. There is nothing to calibrate the potential against. And Source wants to know what it is, and what its potential means. And thus, it has created the illusion of Self and Other, so as to have a perspective, a subjective experience that gives meaning to everything.

    Or maybe not to everything, because our minds are too small to grasp it all. That's why there are so many of us. Source learns the meaning of everything through the accumulated subjective experiences of everything in existence, and through the observation of how these subjective experiences ─ i.e. the "individuated beings" ─ interact with each other and test their own experiences against the experiences of others. The confrontation between thesis and antithesis leads to the synthesis.

    It's all about creating Order out of Chaos, which was the first of all dichotomies ─ understanding versus not understanding.
    It is exactly the same thing as Bashar has explained about Source and self knowing and self experiencing.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    Another question:

    Why incarnate on a 3rd dimensional world and purse a mission while in complete amnesia?
    Its a completely new game Ron--We might have been a different gender last time.
    However we come with all the tools for the incarnation---we choose the birth sign --parents-
    environment- talents---you name it.
    Part karmic ---if we disliked a certain culture--then guess what we get this time?
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    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    I suspect each lifetime is about choosing what we want and gathering tools we need for success.
    Asking myself "What to I want?"
    Freedom, well being, joy, love, truth and harmony for all who want.
    Some interesting adventures too. Well, I am here. :-)

    The primary tool I need for the journey is clear two way communication with my inner being. Yes, I have my intuition but I want more clarity. Clear communication with myself has potential to nullify much of the amnesia.


    If inner being said "I will not answer your question." I would ask "Why will you not answer?". Sometimes I feel as if I am an endless source of entertainment for my inner being.
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 6th November 2019 at 15:09.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    I suspect each lifetime is about choosing what we want and gathering tools we need for success.
    Asking myself "What to I want?"
    Freedom, well being, joy, love, truth and harmony for all who want.
    Some interesting adventures too. Well, I am here. :-)

    The primary tool I need for the journey is clear two way communication with my inner being.
    Yes, I have my intuition but I want more clarity.
    Well, my strong reality (and personal experience from many regression sessions) is that we all have purposes (or 'missions') that tend to extend across multiple lifetimes.

    Those can range in scope from (e.g.) helping to introduce a new global technology, to something more local and personal like assisting a friend with their purpose, or healing something that went wrong a while back that one was personally involved in.

    The problem with the amnesia is that we can spend many decades of valuable time not being at all clear what we're 'meant' to be doing. That can result in more mistakes or wrong directions being taken, and therefore more things on the long list for next time that are there to be repaired or remedied.

    Somewhere in there, this is what 'karma' is all about ó a term that seems clear to me is enormously misunderstood and misapplied. (In its simplest form: we always have a strong personal spiritual drive to clean up, deal with, complete or remedy anything in the past that's 'unfinished business' for us, in any way. That can take anything from one lifetime to zillions of years, depending on what's been happening that we've been involved in, and whether our attempts to resolve all this have been going in the right direction, or just making things worse and worse.)

    Returning to our purpose line: even if it's unknown, we can kind of 'back-engineer it' by carefully examining our life and all its events. Strong clues may lie in whatever we've been connected with that's really energized and excited us. Doing something that's on our purpose line ALWAYS gifts us with energy, well-being and drive.

    Here's a useful adage, maybe:

    People don't get exhausted from working hard. They get exhausted from working hard at the wrong thing.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Inspiration, inspired action is what we are looking for. A valuable tool we all have.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote
    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Perhaps source needs us to grow and experience the universe for it. If source is omniscient, then it can't experience ignorance, confusion and learning. If it is omnipotent, then it can't experience powerless and what it means to grow stronger. And perhaps we would be loathe to exercise our free will if we were too comfortably nestled under the wings of source.
    Interesting perspective, but conflicts with the "Source is Perfect" idea model.
    I've considered too, if something is perfect... that would mean it cannot evolve, which seems kind of sad.
    Why would source need to learn humility? To be perfect? Perhaps?
    Maybe source isn't perfect. Source is incomplete. It's not "humilty", but "experience" that it needs. Perhaps it can gain that experience by sending zillions of it's "children" out there into the universe, to grow, feel, suffer, laugh, see, taste, do all those things that Source might not be able to directly do itself.
    If seeds in the black earth can turn into such beautiful roses, what might not the heart of man become in its long journey toward the stars?
    --- G.K. Chesterton

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    I suspect that Source is having fun with the experience of It's children.

    Maybe Source is a layered consciousness, many levels of creative energy. Some thinking of itself as Prime Creator then discovering that it is the child of another creation.

    Perhaps some children of Source wanted to experience free will adventures through the lives of their own children, so with much love and curiosity they took their children, put them in a room with one way glass (metaphor) and said "Let us see what they do.".

    Interesting possibilities.
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 6th November 2019 at 21:36.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    What purpose is served by the illusion of being separate from Source?
    ...the first thing that jumps to my mind is stress testing a computer...making sure all the components of the whole are capable, coordinated and can handle the heat. :-)

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    To follow up with Greybeard's opening sentence: "You need Subject And Object to Experience Ron."

    I read this mini-book once, written by the author of the "Dilbert" comic, called "God's Debris"

    The book proposed that initial "God", as whole being, and one that consisted of all, literally had nothing to do, nothing to experience, everything was boring - because He knew everything already. Omnipotence was dull as dull could possible be.

    The book then rendered out a solution that God would need to undertake to solve this deilema of His. That solution was to fragment himself into a near infinite amount of finite components.

    Over time, those components began to coalesce back together to form stars, planets and eventually life, that was able to have experiences. The myriad of potential variations of creation and experience could only be had in this method.

    In a sense, it was somewhat implied that the Universe as we see, is God putting Himself back together again, but being able to have "otherness" in the process, with new creations, surprises, etc. The "outbreath" being the fragmentation, and the "inbreath" the coalescence. It's God experiencing Himself in the only way possible. It is an illusion because God actually can't be changed or destroyed - it is the sum of all.

    Of course this was a rather rudimentary, but entertaining, paraphrasing of a concept that is shared in more advanced spirituality. I also believe that the universal creation story as roughly believed in Christianity also tries to speak of it in this term, but it has been twisted to make it a story about the origins of evil instead. I see Lucifer, as presented in that story, as the fragmented being that created our physical Universe, while "God" is the whole of all universes / dimensions, beings and knowledge within, including Lucifer - Lucifer, a subset of God, as I see the Christ consciousness as the counterpart subset of God to Lucifer. But of course reading that stuff through religion goggles is hard to accept, but objectively, it makes some sense and connect some dots.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 6th November 2019 at 23:45.
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    What purpose is served by the illusion of being separate from Source?
    Well, I suppose if we are created in Creator's (Source's) image, we must be learning to create. And learning to create perfectly, as I trust Source already does.

    It is probably darn lucky that we are learning self-responsibility for our creating power in this slowed-down mucky reality. Can you imagine if all the little ego selfs here went around instantly manifesting every passing whim or desire? If we came here to this reality, with an undeveloped level of ego, yet fully "knew" our creative potential, we might wind up hurling a whole lot of very ugly lightening bolts like a bunch of spoiled babies whenever we didn't get our way. haha And it's doubtful that this physical reality would last more than an instant.

    I'd say, we forget, so we will grow into our vast creative power, along with learning to use it wisely and responsibly. At our own pace.
    And what is time anyway, in the infinite and eternal?
    "We're all bozos on this bus"

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