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    Default Just wondering

    What purpose is served by the illusion of being separate from Source?

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    You need Subject And Object to Experience Ron.
    Its a cyclic process described as the out breath and in breath of "God"
    On the out breath everything is created and on the in breath i begins to return to source.
    The fullness of consciousness is restricted compressed.
    The formless condensed into form.

    On the return "journey" restricted consciousness begins to expand to know itself--in its fullness.
    Once you know what you are no other is required to confirm that you exist.
    The One without a second is realized as ultimate Truth.
    That applies to the small and the large in a way.
    So the limited consciousness in human form, having had many experiences, begins to suspect there is more to life than this.
    The quest for spiritual knowledge begins.
    At some point in time enlightenment occurs- the seeming separate realizes its true nature--that there never was separation--the prodigal son is home --which he never really left.

    Not saying Im right but that's my understanding of the moment.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Source would be lonely without allowed perceived separateness



    Maye The Universe would be boring without (spiritual) challenges
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 5th November 2019 at 16:44.
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    I am strongly inclined to think such a question would benefit more by being answered for yourself.

    The answer would wholly be yours, and no one would be able to take it away from you.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by nsb (here)
    I am strongly inclined to think such a question would benefit more by being answered for yourself.

    The answer would wholly be yours, and no one would be able to take it away from you.

    Suspicions other than mine are welcome, just for fun. A conversation starter.
    When I asked myself this question, some time ago, this 2 minute video is what popped into my head. It does not directly answer my question but it could be a clue.


    The answer may be in that video, "for the thrill of the ride".
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 5th November 2019 at 18:20.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by ExomatrixTV (here)
    Source would be lonely without allowed perceived separateness
    Awwwe!

    Perhaps! Or giving us the illusion of privacy? I must admit - privacy is pretty nice, even though I know it is (mostly) an illusion. 'Peace and quiet' is pretty nice too, and I imagine Source would agree with me ;-)

    As for PURPOSE, that's awfully tricky sounding! By thinking about purpose, we're almost condoning the illusion, and I don't want to condone illusions because they are fake. I think I would be 100% correct in guessing that nobody wants to live in an illusion.

    So what purpose could an illusion possibly serve? To keep us from getting on Source's nerves... perhaps?

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    Quote Posted by nsb (here)
    I am strongly inclined to think such a question would benefit more by being answered for yourself.

    The answer would wholly be yours, and no one would be able to take it away from you.

    Suspicions other than mine are welcome, just for fun. A conversation starter.
    Sounds good to me!

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Possibly its for the same reason we dream.
    Because we can?
    In the dream there are many possibilities.
    I am in the dream but unaware, at that time ,that am dreaming these others--its only when I wake up that I realize that it was an illusion.
    In the dream I can do all kinds of dangerous things and in reality I was safe at all times.
    The dream can be anything I want it to be.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    I think the question is not well formulated, because it mixes two very distinct things (illusion and individuation), because separation itself is an illusion.

    individuation its not a separation, unless you see the (soul) individuation like an ilusive (ego) separation, that may even work in part and for some time, generally related to the Archetype of the Scorpio sign, whose aim is to obtain a cosmic "Sense of Purpose".

    so, I ask you to elaborate a few more what you are wondering, because by nature, a vague question does not inspire a very objective answer
    Last edited by rogparan; 5th November 2019 at 18:39.
    here I am, but I don't belong to this world
    So, nothing there are here belongs to me.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Why does (a part of any) Source have a need for illusion in the first place? ... Pure self-entertainment just like kids playing with toys having imaginary stories

    So what if ANY "spiritual test" ... how well intended, is also an illusion

    Seems like we all have a "story about who we (really) are" and what we tell ourselves that needs an update to balance/heal the old.

    Maybe having a "personality" that is beyond the program beyond the predictable mixing with other "personalities" who are genuine & authentic MAGIC happens ... because it was not part of a scripted illusion

    If we all are born as an unique Soul & original ... why still most die as a (poor) copy of some one else's expectations?

    Closest to be "real" (self-honesty) could be not having to fit in any program/script/expectation/agenda/belief system/(political) group think/collectivism etc. etc.

    I am the "other you" ... you are the "other me", the future & history.

    If "Prime Creator" created everything (all existence originated from same Source) than FACTUAL everything is OF it ... like sparks of a fire.
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 5th November 2019 at 19:55.
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    "For entertainment " may be a possibility. Similar to going to a movie and getting wrapped up in the drama with opposing view points. And from the opposite view points within the drama, new thoughts are born and the universe expands. Expansion may be the goal of Source.

    I am thinking of the movie (illusion?) I would like to create. The movie supports freedom, well being, joy, love, truth and harmony for all who want. I want it all.

    Remembering an old Star Trek movie: A star ship captain survived the destruction of his ship. Alive but with severe incurable injuries he was taken to a place (dream) where he was perfectly functional and had a sexy girl friend. That is a good example of an illusion that is better than reality. Captain Kirk, on a rescue mission to save the injured captain, wisely decided to abandon the mission and let the injured captain have his fun fantasy.
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 5th November 2019 at 18:52.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    What purpose is served by the illusion of being separate from Source?
    As greybeard stated, it's all about subjectivity and objectivity. Source is a quantum singularity, an infinite field of potential, but this potential has no meaning at all when you're the only thing in existence capable of thinking. There is nothing to calibrate the potential against. And Source wants to know what it is, and what its potential means. And thus, it has created the illusion of Self and Other, so as to have a perspective, a subjective experience that gives meaning to everything.

    Or maybe not to everything, because our minds are too small to grasp it all. That's why there are so many of us. Source learns the meaning of everything through the accumulated subjective experiences of everything in existence, and through the observation of how these subjective experiences ─ i.e. the "individuated beings" ─ interact with each other and test their own experiences against the experiences of others. The confrontation between thesis and antithesis leads to the synthesis.

    It's all about creating Order out of Chaos, which was the first of all dichotomies ─ understanding versus not understanding.
    Last edited by Aragorn; 5th November 2019 at 18:55.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Imagine that your parents would never age and could live forever and imagine that you had the option of not aging and continuing to be their child forever, being cared for and comforted by them. Would you exercise that option? Or would you want the option to grow into something different and original? Something your parents could never be?

    Perhaps source needs us to grow and experience the universe for it. If source is omniscient, then it can't experience ignorance, confusion and learning. If it is omnipotent, then it can't experience powerless and what it means to grow stronger. And perhaps we would be loathe to exercise our free will if we were too comfortably nestled under the wings of source.
    If seeds in the black earth can turn into such beautiful roses, what might not the heart of man become in its long journey toward the stars?
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    "What purpose is served by the illusion of being separate from Source?"

    Maybe our experience is all about Source playing with Itself?
    Having imaginary friends that Source loves deeply?

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    "For entertainment " may be a possibility.
    .. or for "Consolation", that is a form of illusion used for those who tend to give up the journey halfway

    .. and, dont forget that "entertainment" include the war games and gladiatorial battles (that kill each other) to glorify "the (ego) names" of some (illuded) ones.
    Last edited by rogparan; 5th November 2019 at 19:16.
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    So, nothing there are here belongs to me.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by rogparan (here)
    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    "For entertainment " may be a possibility.
    .. or For "Consolation", that is a form of illusion used for those who tend to give up the journey halfway

    .. and, dont forget that "entertainment" include the war games and gladiatorial battles (that kill each other) to glorify "the (ego) names" of some (illuded) ones.

    What if any of that is heavily depending on "attention" & "what you chose to focus upon" until you are FED UP being emotional trapped there and move on to the next level
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    Remembering an old Star Trek movie: A star ship captain survived the destruction of his ship. Alive but with severe incurable injuries he was taken to a place (dream) where he was perfectly functional and had a sexy girl friend. That is a good example of an illusion that is better than reality. Captain Kirk, on a rescue mission to save the injured captain, wisely decided to abandon the mission and let the injured captain have his fun fantasy.
    That would be The Cage which was to be the first pilot episode of Star Trek. Most of that unaired episode became -

    The Menagerie, Parts I and II, episodes 11 and 12 of the first season of Star Trek.

    Well worth watching.
    Last edited by Peter UK; 5th November 2019 at 19:33.

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    Remembering an old Star Trek movie: A star ship captain survived the destruction of his ship. Alive but with severe incurable injuries he was taken to a place (dream) where he was perfectly functional and had a sexy girl friend. That is a good example of an illusion that is better than reality. Captain Kirk, on a rescue mission to save the injured captain, wisely decided to abandon the mission and let the injured captain have his fun fantasy.
    Also see the very interesting 2011 movie Source Code. Are the 'parallel universe' final scenes, experienced in freedom by the impossibly badly injured hero, 'real'?

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    Remembering an old Star Trek movie: A star ship captain survived the destruction of his ship. Alive but with severe incurable injuries he was taken to a place (dream) where he was perfectly functional and had a sexy girl friend. That is a good example of an illusion that is better than reality. Captain Kirk, on a rescue mission to save the injured captain, wisely decided to abandon the mission and let the injured captain have his fun fantasy.
    Also see the very interesting 2011 movie Source Code. Are the 'parallel universe' final scenes, experienced in freedom by the impossibly badly injured hero, 'real'?
    Oh My.

    That is some film!

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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Imagine that your parents would never age and could live forever and imagine that you had the option of not aging and continuing to be their child forever, being cared for and comforted by them. Would you exercise that option? Or would you want the option to grow into something different and original? Something your parents could never be?
    A child forever?!? How horrifying....

    Personally I'd like it if it were possible for me to evolve into an Angel, but maybe that's like asking a tomato seed to grow into an oak tree.

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Perhaps source needs us to grow and experience the universe for it. If source is omniscient, then it can't experience ignorance, confusion and learning. If it is omnipotent, then it can't experience powerless and what it means to grow stronger. And perhaps we would be loathe to exercise our free will if we were too comfortably nestled under the wings of source.
    Interesting perspective, but conflicts with the "Source is Perfect" idea model.
    I've considered too, if something is perfect... that would mean it cannot evolve, which seems kind of sad.
    Why would source need to learn humility? To be perfect? Perhaps?

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