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Thread: Reinstantiation of the Spiritual

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    Default Reinstantiation of the Spiritual

    Quote re-
    Etymology: From Middle English re-, from Old French re-, from Latin re-, red- (“back; anew; again; against”), from Proto-Indo-European *wret-, a metathetic alteration of *wert- (“to turn”). Displaced native English ed-, eft-, a-, with-/wither-, gain-/again-.
    Quote instantiation
    Etymology: From Middle French instance, from Latin instantia (“a being near, presence, also perseverance, earnestness, importunity, urgency”), from instans (“urgent”);

    See also: instant
    Quote instant
    Etymology: From Middle English instant (“infinitely short period of time”), from Old French instant (“assiduous, at hand”, adj), from Latin instans, instant- (“present, pressing, urgent”, literally “standing near”), from in + stāre (“to stand”).
    Quote spiritual
    Etymology: From Middle English spiritual, spirituel, from Old French spirituel, from Late Latin spiritualis, from Latin spiritus.
    Quote Latin, spiritus
    Etymology: From spīrō (“I breathe, I respire; I live”)
    (All etymologies from wiktionary.com)

    ~~~

    What might it take to re-instantiate the spiritual - or the perceived validity (maybe even primacy?) of the spiritual - of, in and through the wider world?

    I’ve been thinking about this.
    *I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night*

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    Default Re: Reinstantiation of the Spiritual

    Here are some ideas from Seyyed Hossein Nasr. His lecture begins at 17:00 min on the YouTube.

    It’s also available in audio only on archive.org: https://archive.org/details/SHNasrLe...Beginning.mp3#


    Quote Published on Jun 6, 2014
    On May 1, 2003, Professor Seyyed Hossein Nasr, one of the world's leading experts on Islamic science and spirituality, delivered the 2003-04 Dudleian Lecture. Professor Nasr is University Professor of Islamic Studies at George Washington University and the author of numerous books, most recently The Heart of Islam: Enduring Values for Humanity.
    *I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night*

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    Default Re: Reinstantiation of the Spiritual

    I like the phrase 'the breath of spirit'.

    It is truly an organic process, an intrinsic substantiation. Into this soup of particles that take on shapes that morph and move but never solidify, spirit juggles the energies of reality and in between the changing states emerges life! Life, a thing that cannot be but is.

    Life, a thing we give names to but the named are not the thing. Life goes on. Life is a process and a life is but a passing fancy. Spirit collects the transient energies into a pattern that then calls itself alive...a collection of opposing forces held in tentative equilibrium for a time.

    All life is this animation by spirit. A single spirit, a single life. A life large enough, diverse enough, important enough, to be the intent of the cosmos from the very beginning.

    Instantiation? There is nothing else...unless local random acts in a universe of random acts with no intended consequence resulting in a world of unintended beings is a comfort...
    Forget about it

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    Default Re: Reinstantiation of the Spiritual

    What comes to mind is the specific influence that can "reach out" to others that some individuals have or are said to have. I am not sure, depending on whatever is required for others to be able to notice if anyone is setting up such a space, but I am aware there have and probably right now are people who do emit a kind of "I'M HERE" for others to see. I am self-aware enough to know I am not like that, so do not know how to go about that.

    Some things come to mind regarding this question.

    There have been the many schools of thought intended for such returns.

    I am reminded of what happened to that fellow called later on Meher Baba, whereas by direct transmission a woman called Hazrat Babajan helped him.

    A quote from wikipedia

    Quote In May 1913, Merwan Sheriar Irani, then nineteen years old, was riding his bicycle on the way to class at Deccan College, when he looked up and saw an old woman sitting under a neem tree surrounded by a crowd. He had cycled past on previous occasions but had never paid much attention to her, though he was aware that she was regarded by some as a Muslim saint; yet others thought her "a mad woman or a witch or sorceress."[21] His father, Sheriar Irani, held Babajan in high regard.[22] Born into a Zoroastrian family, Sheriar Irani had been an itinerant dervish for a number of years[23] before finally settling in Pune and marrying. Babajan beckoned Merwan, who in turn was drawn towards her. For several months thereafter Merwan Irani would visit the saint; they would sit together yet seldom spoke. One night during January 1914, he was about to leave, and before doing so kissed Babajan’s hands, and she in turn held his face in her hands. She then kissed him on the forehead,[24] during which he received her spiritual grace (barakah).[25] The event subsequently left Merwan Irani in an enraptured state in which he remained abstracted from his normal surroundings for nearly nine months.[26] The young man would later become known as Meher Baba.
    Someone who has already returned to the type of operation where they are able to assist another via some form of transmission, could use telepathic communication as a sort of guide.



    Some people just go into these things and return all by themselves, just come about it like Ramana Maharishi and U.G. Krishnamurti, come to mind although they were subject to some ideas and cultures from what's been said of them, I think it is possible for people who are not involved in any religious teachings or cultures speaking of spiritual related matters to come across what is considered spiritual.

    But to get back to the question concerning the wider world, it appears to me that others will have to be ready and interested in such a spiritual undertaking, which is why it always seems to be a group of individuals who get together a few or all get at least something.

    Information in books and what we are saying here people come by and get interested or it produces a kind of thinking for them where they are allowed to see these things are possible, and it may allow for them to return.

    I'd say small groups getting together, or one on one basis, with some sort of material or the person themselves "being a material" is what gets people to return, and if enough people in a section or town were like that, operating as such, they may have influence for others and the domino effect begins throughout a greater part of their town, and possibly to a close-by town.

    If no effect begins at this time to the extent of a far reaching scope, at least some people who really want something have a chance upon contact with such groups and individuals.

    Thank you for this thread, Cara. I've thought about this on a smaller scale and what many smaller scales could do and have done in the past, which does appear big as information does get around.

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    Default Re: Reinstantiation of the Spiritual

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    I like the phrase 'the breath of spirit'.

    ...

    All life is this animation by spirit. A single spirit, a single life. A life large enough, diverse enough, important enough, to be the intent of the cosmos from the very beginning.

    ...
    Thank you Ernie. I also rather like the idea of breath and spirit. It has a wonderful sense of both movement and calmness about it.


    Quote Posted by nsb (here)
    What comes to mind is the specific influence that can "reach out" to others that some individuals have or are said to have. I am not sure, depending on whatever is required for others to be able to notice if anyone is setting up such a space, but I am aware there have and probably right now are people who do emit a kind of "I'M HERE" for others to see. I am self-aware enough to know I am not like that, so do not know how to go about that.

    ...

    I am reminded of what happened to that fellow called later on Meher Baba, whereas by direct transmission a woman called Hazrat Babajan helped him.

    A quote from wikipedia

    Quote In May 1913, Merwan Sheriar Irani, then nineteen years old, was riding his bicycle on the way to class at Deccan College, when he looked up and saw an old woman sitting under a neem tree surrounded by a crowd. He had cycled past on previous occasions but had never paid much attention to her, though he was aware that she was regarded by some as a Muslim saint; yet others thought her "a mad woman or a witch or sorceress."[21] His father, Sheriar Irani, held Babajan in high regard.[22] Born into a Zoroastrian family, Sheriar Irani had been an itinerant dervish for a number of years[23] before finally settling in Pune and marrying. Babajan beckoned Merwan, who in turn was drawn towards her. For several months thereafter Merwan Irani would visit the saint; they would sit together yet seldom spoke. One night during January 1914, he was about to leave, and before doing so kissed Babajan’s hands, and she in turn held his face in her hands. She then kissed him on the forehead,[24] during which he received her spiritual grace (barakah).[25] The event subsequently left Merwan Irani in an enraptured state in which he remained abstracted from his normal surroundings for nearly nine months.[26] The young man would later become known as Meher Baba.
    Thank you nsb. What a wonderful story this is.

    When and if one is fully present in the here and now and, if one can imagine and grant a spiritual aspect to others (whatever and whoever they are), does that create a space for some kind of transmission?

    Perhaps a shared sense of spirituality can be “induced” or at least nurtured by being in the presence of those who are living this as their reality in the here and now?

    Quote Posted by nsb (here)
    Some people just go into these things and return all by themselves
    Yes, it seems they do. So what might have been the conditions around them that encouraged or facilitated this? I wonder if a space and a time can be imbued with such conditions. Or perhaps there are already places in the world that have this possibility in them. I am thinking here of beautiful places in nature or maybe even places designed by humans to elicit a spiritual response. A waterfall for some, a cathedral for others?

    Quote Posted by nsb (here)
    ...others will have to be ready and interested in such a spiritual undertaking...

    ...

    ... and if enough people in a section or town were like that, operating as such, they may have influence for others and the domino effect begins throughout a greater part of their town, and possibly to a close-by town.
    So this may be something like a group effect: a group aligned around a common purpose can become greater than the sum of its individual members perhaps. Perhaps the group becomes some sort of “attractor” or “gravity well” in the spiritual field?

    Quote Posted by nsb (here)
    Thank you for this thread, Cara. I've thought about this on a smaller scale and what many smaller scales could do and have done in the past, which does appear big as information does get around.
    My pleasure, thank you for sharing your thoughts .
    *I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night*

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    Default Re: Reinstantiation of the Spiritual

    Quote When and if one is fully present in the here and now and, if one can imagine and grant a spiritual aspect to others (whatever and whoever they are), does that create a space for some kind of transmission?

    Perhaps a shared sense of spirituality can be “induced” or at least nurtured by being in the presence of those who are living this as their reality in the here and now?
    I think so, and I think it does have the potential of doing this. I am not certain what are the specific requirements of someone who comes in contact with such people who produce space, where a kind of transmission is possible. Perhaps it has to do with their individuality and how close they are themselves to returning to their own "fullestness". Again, perhaps the person who can produce such space is just able to do it for the other person by an ability of sorts. I'd say there could be many things as to why.

    Looking around, even though there are people who are said to have returned by certain criteria placed upon such individuals, there are still those who pass them by and do not give them a second glance, otherwise I think most of what a lot of people were going for would have been accomplished already in the past.

    Since it has not been accomplished like that, there seems to be the individual factors once again coming into play. Some individuals may not care about any of this and are content with what they have, so although the chance may be there, they do not wish for such a change, which is of course ok!


    Quote Yes, it seems they do. So what might have been the conditions around them that encouraged or facilitated this? I wonder if a space and a time can be imbued with such conditions. Or perhaps there are already places in the world that have this possibility in them. I am thinking here of beautiful places in nature or maybe even places designed by humans to elicit a spiritual response. A waterfall for some, a cathedral for others?
    Probably their culture and the practices they involved themselves in, whatever they may be.

    I do think a space and time could be set up that way.

    I am aware in the Fourth Way materials, a statement in particular about the acquiring of what they call higher hydrogens via beautiful things such as waterfalls and cathedrals, sunsets, works of art etc whilst in present time, the intake forms substances in the body that can be lost from the expression of say anger, before the collection becomes permanent. I'm sure there are some students of the Fourth Way on this forum that could expound on this idea, as I've just read some of the books and practiced the non-expression of negative emotions in the past.

    Quote So this may be something like a group effect: a group aligned around a common purpose can become greater than the sum of its individual members perhaps. Perhaps the group becomes some sort of “attractor” or “gravity well” in the spiritual field?
    I'd say yes, there is some sort of magnetic thing about this, that some people are attracted to.

    I think it's important as well that those who come in contact with such individuals are influenced in only that they themselves will be able to influence and continue such operations where others become more free. Such is one of the main purposes of this kind of influence, I find.

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    Default Re: Reinstantiation of the Spiritual

    I don't understand the state of creation to be one where there is a separation between the material and the spiritual. Just as there can be no computer or Net without the electricity flowing through the hardware, the energy that flows through the world as consciousness is a fundamental component of the manifestation of this world. Spirit IS, the world is, we are all connected to it regardless. My understanding of this conception of re-instantiation is some form of conscious and deliberate expression of spirituality at the cultural and societal level.

    My consideration of that is what we would call media and nationality. People wear gods and goddesses in the form of brands, showing the tribes/clans they belong to, they follow teams lead by demi-gods, the praise nations and cultural icons as messiahs. We don't call this expression religion but in the ways people live them, they serve that purpose and, energetically, blood and emotion are used to power higher and lower initiatives by those cabal initiates conscious of their use of symbols and sacred geometry to capture and control power. National governments and representatives serve the purpose of priesthood, societies are structured for the purpose of culling loosh and funneling it upward today just as it has since the first pyramidal structures went up wherever in the world they first appeared.

    Obscuring the spiritual nature of our current milieu has been half the job of those who collect and disense loosh at the 3D for the 4D and beyond levels of consciousness. Keeping the sheep unaware of the true nature of their toils guarantees the continuous pacification of the herd. The outliers are dealt with automatically by systemic captures and foils.

    People can say what they want and believe what they want, all out of proportion to what the actual diffusion of energetics show to actually be the case. None of it matters when the energy, like spice, continues to flow.

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    Default Re: Reinstantiation of the Spiritual

    @ Cara, You have started a beautiful thread that I have enjoyed. Thank you.
    - Warren Light

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    Default Re: Reinstantiation of the Spiritual

    I am reading the book “Man and Nature” by Seyyed Hossein Nasr. It was first published in 1968 and my edition is print run of a 1997 edition. The book explores the underlying spiritual aspects of the disconnect between humans and nature.

    This passage seems apt here:

    Quote It must never be forgotten that for non-modem man - whether he be ancient or contemporary - the very stuff of the Universe has a sacred aspect. The cosmos speaks to man and all of its phenomena contain meaning. They are symbols of a higher degree of reality which the cosmic domain at once veils and reveals. The very structure of the cosmos contains a spiritual message for man and is thereby a revelation coming from the same source as religion itself.13 Both are the manifestations of the Universal Intellect, the Logos, and the cosmos itself is an integral part of that total Universe of meaning in which man lives and dies.14

    In order for the modern sciences of nature to come into being, the substance of the cosmos had first to be emptied of its sacred character and become profane. The world view of modem science, especially as propagated through its vulgarization, itself contributed to this secularization of nature and of natural substances. The symbols in nature became facts, entities in themselves that are totally divorced from other orders of reality. The cosmos which had been transparent thus became opaque and spiritually meaningless - at least to those who were totally immersedin the scientific view of nature - even if individual scientists believed otherwise. The traditional sciences such as alchemy, which can be compared to the celebration of a cosmic mass, became reduced to a chemistry in which the substances had lost all their sacramental character. In the process, the sciences of nature lost their symbolic intelligibility, a fact that is most directly responsible for the crisis which the modern scientific world view and its applica- tions have brought about.15
    ~~~

    “The cosmos speaks to man and all of its phenomena contain meaning”

    So perhaps this is simply a question of orientation. If one permits a spiritual aspect to exist, it might speak?
    *I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night*

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    Default Re: Reinstantiation of the Spiritual

    Perhaps!

    I am thinking a certain preparation sometimes needs to be in order, depending on whatever practice or method one is most keen to.

    The ones who were not prepared by some form of technique I can only speculate about, but perhaps they were ready for something, be it their hope they decide to orientate themselves to allow anything for them to happen when it comes to what has happened with others in other or their culture's history, and they are given this by some force of nature, or perhaps even themselves.

    I'm inclined to think that even with some form of preparation by a practice, it can and probably has always been unpredictable for a person, due to the actuality of the matter. One is not aware of something, then is aware of something and it seems different sometimes familiar and a person doesn't expect it.

    Since writings such as Nasr's and others whomever they may be are still in production and flourishing, these works can continue and the broad scale of humanity can get inspired by such writings as long as these works remain.

    Which seems like it always is this way by our cultures.

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    Default Re: Reinstantiation of the Spiritual

    Quote Posted by nsb (here)
    I am thinking a certain preparation sometimes needs to be in order, depending on whatever practice or method one is most keen to.

    ...

    I'm inclined to think that even with some form of preparation by a practice, it can and probably has always been unpredictable for a person, due to the actuality of the matter. One is not aware of something, then is aware of something and it seems different sometimes familiar and a person doesn't expect it.
    Thank you nsb. I’ve been thinking of these and related ideas for a few days now.

    It is indeed most curious that sometimes, even with a preparation (one could wonder for ages what might be a good preparation?), this awareness doesn’t seem to surface.

    Maybe it is like a water well, in that the rain falling might not always be the cause that fills the well but that it instead draws its water from some underlying aquifer? Then one would somehow need to dowse (intuit) where the water is sourced?

    ~~~

    If I think of my own childhood, I did not have any overtly spiritual or religious exposure and I ended up studying engineering, which is hardly a preparation for perceiving the spiritual!

    I think my very first aware and remembered experience of there being something-more-than-the-material was of ‘seeing things within/behind’ the sunlight one afternoon when I was about aged 10. Many years later (in my early 20s) I had another out-the-ordinary experience and then they gradually increased in frequency as I became aware of them.

    Thank you nsb for prompting these interesting recollections .
    *I have loved the stars too dearly to be fearful of the night*

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