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Thread: I'm Not A Cisgender Male

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default I'm Not A Cisgender Male

    I hadn't even heard the word "cisgender" until maybe a year ago (apparently it's been around since the 90's). It was in an article about transgenderism, and the author began by describing himself as a "cisgender" male.

    I didn't know what that meant, so I was forced to look it up. This is what I found:

    cisgender: adj: denoting or relating to a person whose personal identity and gender corresponds with their birth sex.

    I'll begin here by saying that I fully believe that there are men and women who feel in their heart and soul and bones that they are in some way the opposite sex (or "gender"). I'm not denying that in any way, but I don't know what that means exactly. I don't think anyone does. And until we do, I'm not prepared to cede any sort of linguistic territory. I think that's dangerous to be tampering with the lexicon like that, for all sorts of reasons.

    I don't know what it means, but I do know what it doesn't mean: it doesn't mean that men can be women and women can be men. You can separate the word "gender" from the word "sex" ..and "identify" all you like, but it doesn't change the facts.

    So I reject that title. I'm not a cisgender male. I'm just a male. I was born with male genitalia and I've never had to ponder, even for a moment, that I might be anything else. In other words, I don't "identify" with being male, I just am one.

    The word "cisgender" makes me feel queasy in my solar plexus. It's just not right. If you are a male who identifies as a woman, you are a transgender woman. I'm ok with that. And if you are a female who identifies as a male, you are a transgender male. I'm ok with that too.

    So there has to be a distinction, because transgender men and women are not the same as men and women. I'm good with that. But the transgender reality is a fluid one, it is literally changing and evolving daily; it's purely subjective and not reality or scientifically based in any way, shape or form.

    here's my point, in a nutshell: Making typical males and females use the word "cisgender" as self identification feels like a linguistic power-play that forces them to accept a muddy reality they can't even define let alone agree with. it's a contrived manufacturing of ideas, thru language, that is seeking a home in every day reality thru passive aggressive bullying. I'm perfectly ok with transgender folks seeking to distinguish themselves by arriving at words that describe them, but not by changing and manipulating words that describe me.
    Last edited by Mike; 7th November 2019 at 09:57.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Not A Cisgender Male

    I think we could all makeup a new--word-phrase to define our personal feelings about our "gender".
    Maybe it stems from the inner feeling that we are not what we seem to be---as in a spiritual being having a human experience. Seems the spirit is neither male nor female--it just temporally inhabits a body of some gender, not always definable.
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    Default Re: I'm Not A Cisgender Male

    I always assumed the cis in cisgender was short for sissy:

    Quote sissy
    /ˈsɪsi/
    a person regarded as effeminate or cowardly.
    No doubt all the males who self identify as ‘cis-male’ also hated the awesomely hilarious display of “toxic” masculinity from the last Fast and Furious movie, ‘Hobbs and Shaw’.



    As J. Krishnamurti used to say:

    Last edited by Jayke; 7th November 2019 at 13:04.

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    Default Re: I'm Not A Cisgender Male

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    here's my point, in a nutshell: Making typical males and females use the word "cisgender" as self identification feels like a linguistic power-play that forces them to accept a muddy reality they can't even define let alone agree with. it's a contrived manufacturing of ideas, thru language,
    The following quote from the father of modern day propaganda Edward Bernays jumped right out at me while reading your post Mike.

    Quote The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of…in almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons…who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world.
    Any more I see it everywhere, from politics, religion, education, you name it, very few people actually form their own opinions about things. We are given a list of opinions to choose from, we choose one, we stick with it as if it were absolute truth, and by golly we will defend it with our very lives if need be.

    These new ridiculous gender pronouns, in my view, are just a new twist to a very old story arc.

    Good observations as usual there Joker Mike!
    Last edited by Gracy May; 7th November 2019 at 11:48.

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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Not A Cisgender Male

    I'm with you Mike.

    But my friends and I don't give any of this gender related stuff the time of day. It is a ridiculous situation only gender-confused persons would identify with in the first place.

    I don't need to qualify what I am nor who I want to do it with. I do not have an issue with gender. And once you let the cat out of the bag, you will have all kinds of strange sexual-orientations coming out of the woodwork. It is only natural. Allow the sexually deviant minority to normalize their behavior and the normal majority must suddenly prove their own status and own their own sexuality.

    Just like whites must now prove their value in an atmosphere of virtue signalling, giving the sexually misidentified a voice forces the norms of society into a tailspin of societal collapse.
    Forget about it

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    Default Re: I'm Not A Cisgender Male

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    Just like whites must now prove their value in an atmosphere of virtue signalling, giving the sexually misidentified a voice forces the norms of society into a tailspin of societal collapse.
    Well now hold on just a second here Ernie.

    Would you agree that theres a big difference between say,giving a chick born with a dick an equal say in society and free as possible from discrimination, and elevating them to some kind of weird elite status where they get to run around dictating the way society in general should kowtow to their every whim of a self identifying pronoun?

    That's probably not where we're headed with this, just looking to clarify because this tends to be a very confusing issue fraught with conflation and misunderstandings.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Not A Cisgender Male

    some good responses guys, thanks.

    my point was, mostly, that the trans community has a responsibility to linguistically distinguish itself from the norm; the norm has no linguistic responsibility to distinguish itself from the trans community. accepting the word "cisgender" is accepting for oneself what is essentially an arbitrary and fluid reality.. and how can one ever accept something that is undefined? using the word "cisgender" is akin to announcing, I'm ok with all this! and how can you be ok with it if you don't even know what it is?

    we need words to define and distinguish things, sure. transgender is a word I'm comfortable using as an umbrella term to define those types of people. but now the vocabulary is encroaching into my yard, and I'm not comfortable with that at all. I'll define myself, thank you very much

    most folks are ok with other folks doing and believing what they please, within reason and as long as it doesn't interfere too heavily with their lives. that would describe me anyway. if transgender folks want to redefine their reality, fair enough.. but the narcissism involved in trying to redefine the rest of the world is beyond deluded. therefore, "cisgender" doesn't fly with me. I'm not cool with that at all.

    I'm no transphobe. I've never felt that my masculinity was under attack, or anything like that. I'm not a victim, nor am I attempting to be. Transgenderism is something I rarely think about, actually. And when I do think about it, I mostly feel a sense of compassion for those quietly struggling individuals dealing with that inner conflict. Imagine that just for a moment? Must be hell. My issue isn't with them.. it's with the noisy minority that is trying to not only define their reality, but the rest of ours as well
    Last edited by Mike; 8th November 2019 at 06:50.

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    Default Re: I'm Not A Cisgender Male

    With regards to the manipulation of symbols to shape and create reality, the philosopher Eric Voegelin is interesting. Here’s a brief summary of his thinking on this:

    Quote Beginning with his University of Chicago Lectures, The New Science of Politics, Voegelin built upon an idea that he had first taken from a footnote in a work written by the famous theologian, Hans Urs Von Balthasar, namely that symbols matter: not only how we define symbols, but how we remember them, how we appropriate them, and how we manipulate them. One might think of the Roman fasces — the bundle of sticks, wrapped around an axe, and tied together by leather straps. As its origin, the fasces was the perfect symbol of a republic. All organic — the straps as well as the sticks — the community forms one man, ready to defend itself. Not made for aggression (hence, the axe at the center of the group), a republic does however ably defend itself against all aggressors. In the 1910s, Mussolini very ably perverted that symbol. This is an obvious example, of course.

    When it comes to words as symbols — words such as order or freedom — the manipulations of them becomes much more complicated. When the president behaves as a tyrant rather than an executive, but does so “in the name of American democracy” or “on behalf of the American people,” a clear response to him becomes confused and difficult. Voegelin labeled this manipulation of symbols a form of “Gnosticism,” taking the name from the ancient Christian heresy. Those who manipulate, he argued, know exactly what they are doing. They are master actors and masters of deception. They call “evil” good and then ignore the word “evil.” Often, though, their motives are well-intentioned, as they desire to flee from the ills and disorder of this world, which confuse and befuddle them.
    From: https://voegelinview.com/eric-voegelin-primer/
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    Default Re: I'm Not A Cisgender Male

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    some good responses guys, thanks.

    my point was, mostly, that the trans community has a responsibility to linguistically distinguish itself from the norm; the norm has no linguistic responsibility to distinguish itself from the trans community. accepting the word "cisgender" is accepting for oneself what is essentially an arbitrary and fluid reality.. and how can one ever accept something that is undefined? using the word "cisgender" it's akin to announcing, I'm ok with all this! and how can you be ok with it if you don't even know what it is?

    we need words to define and distinguish things, sure. transgender is a word I'm comfortable using as an umbrella term to define those types of people. but now the vocabulary is encroaching into my yard, and I'm not comfortable with that at all. I'll define myself, thank you very much

    most folks are ok with other folks doing and believing what they please, within reason and as long as it doesn't interfere too heavily with their lives. that would describe me anyway. if transgender folks want to redefine their reality, fair enough.. but the narcissism involved in trying to redefine the rest of the world is beyond deluded. therefore, "cisgender" doesn't fly with me. I'm not cool with that at all.

    I'm no transphobe. I've never felt that my masculinity was under attack, or anything like that. I'm not a victim, nor am I attempting to be. Transgenderism is something I rarely think about, actually. And when I do think about it, I mostly feel a sense of compassion for those quietly struggling individuals dealing with that inner conflict. Imagine that just for a moment? Must be hell. My issue isn't with them.. it's with the noisy minority that is trying to not only define their reality, but the rest of ours as well
    Yeah, I think you nailed it (as for the position that you have on this). I feel very similar to you.

    I do think that the whole gender identity topic, as it has been blown up to the proportion that it has, is part of the effort to distract the general public and keep us fighting amongst ourselves. It almost seems as if the term cisgender is brought in to play in order to get more people involved - those people who weren't bothered or cared to be involved.

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    Default Re: I'm Not A Cisgender Male

    If your comfortable in your skin (no matter what)--why shout about it?
    Chris
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    Default Re: I'm Not A Cisgender Male

    Support that !
    Am also a male and proud of being one!

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