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Thread: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Nothing you will read from this post or any other post I write in this thread will ever change as to the following.

    I view marijuana as a plant that has grown freely on the face of this planet for eons. It could be regarded as a medicinal plant. It can also be regarded as a plant that, depending on how compounds contained within the plant are ingested, could induce shamanic journeys.

    If I had to be labeled anything politically, it would be strong libertarian. Thus, with regards to all drugs, my firm opinion is that they should not be illegal, including marijuana. Having said that, if I could wave a magic wand at this very moment whereby suddenly all drugs in all lands would be legal, I would have no doubt the short and intermediate term results would be dramatic and not in such a good way. [I will address the reasons in another post.]

    But I created this thread to focus on marijuana. The thread will be a mix of anecdotal and factual information. But it is critical the reader understands that whatever I write here, none of it is meant to demonize marijuana. I am sure that despite my words here, some readers will do what so, so, so many people who, for whatever reasons, feel any information that could be considered in any way “negative” with regards to marijuana is to be automatically and vehemently argued against, denied, called lies, etc. Those who do may better benefit from looking within as to why they feel the need to respond this way.

    And so here goes with the content of my first post on the subject – Marijuana Induced Psychosis.

    What is marijuana induced psychosis? It is when a psychosis has emerged where there has been usage of marijuana shortly preceding the psychosis and/or prolonged usage of marijuana preceding and/or continuing through the psychosis emergence stages. And so, the question is, how could the circumstances I described above be conclusive that the psychosis was induced by marijuana usage? Studies. That’s how. And there has been more and more studies that are increasingly conclusive that people who have a predisposition to developing psychosis significantly increase the risk psychosis develops by usage of marijuana. That risk increases even further proportional to the strength, dosage and frequency of use. That risk increases when first usage begins in the teenage years. That risk is significantly higher for males than females by the way.

    So again, to pro marijuana folks, don’t get defensive based on what I wrote above. It's simply facts. But I have more facts that may be appreciated more.

    The percentage of the population that have this proclivity is at most, about 5%. In addition, not all people that have this proclivity, ever discover and use marijuana, though there is a higher percentage of users in this group than users without the proclivity.

    So, because of my strong political position as a libertarian combined with the fact that such a small percentage of humanity appears vulnerable to this proclivity, I am not against marijuana. Perhaps those who know anything about my own personal story might be surprised regardless of the two points I just made. And that is because I have suffered through ten marijuana induced psychosis episodes. Yes, ten. I emerged from the last one in January of 2012.

    If I am able, because it’s difficult to talk about, I will share more. But my “war stories” are not why I created this thread. The reason for creating this thread is to explore the likelihood (only my opinion) that what may lie at the heart of “mental illnesses” like schizophrenia and extreme bipolar situations, both which often lead to full blown psychosis events, is not just some “chemical imbalance” situation… no, no – its demonic attention, demonic intrusion.

    Understand, I don’t “do” religion. So, my usage of the term ‘demonics’ is not meant within any sort of religious framework or paradigm. Be there entities that either reside in or manifest from some section of reality beyond our material, five sense realm… entities that either appear in some individualized expression of form or which act as if they do, or if there simply be a dark energetic force that can’t be traced back to an entity but is clearly intrusive, if the result of the intrusion is, in any way, anti-life (evil) then, for me, that is an example of demonics.

    Now to connect the dots a bit here. If an individual happens to have the proclivity towards a vulnerability to schizophrenia or bipolar illness, and thus psychosis, and marijuana clearly increases that risk, then what users with this risk are actually exposing themselves to is an increase in the probability of success of demonic activity and the negative impacts that activity has on themselves and their loved ones.

    That psychosis opens the door to demonic intrusion, of this, I have no doubt. I have experienced this first hand almost a dozen times (as stated above). That more and more research suggests this proclivity is, at least in part, genetic, I have experienced first hand as well… my father, after his suicide, was diagnosed posthumously as schizophrenic (1979 when they knew far less about it)… my oldest son has had four psychotic episodes (which so happened to include long term, heavy marijuana use in each case) and he is only 28 years old.

    I have a lot more to say about the subject of marijuana, the good, the medical benefits, the reasonably benign recreational usage for most, the business of marijuana (both legal and illegal) and more.
    Last edited by Sammy; 8th November 2019 at 04:37.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Greece Avalon Member
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Working at a psychiatrist office for some years, I can confirm that we have plenty of patients with psychosis induced by marijuana. The sad thing is that most of them are teenagers. My humble opinion through experience from friends and patients, is that the use of marijuana tends to make individuals lose the ability of being conscious in the spiritual sense. As Eckhart Tolle would put, it puts them in a euphoric state which is below the mind and not above it. It might make you feel much calmer or even provide lower astral experiences. However not because of a raised awareness but from its dip in a lower state of consciousness.
    It's the bliss of ignorance effect which also seems to create energetic "holes" because of the lowering of consciousness.

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    Avalon Member enfoldedblue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Hi Sam, Thanks for sharing...I hear what a struggle this was for you. I understand how out of this world intense this state is...and experiencing it 10x is massive. I'd be curious to know your thoughts as to whether this would be different if we didn't live in such a harsh, unsupportive, and medicalized society. As I wrote about in Jump in the Blue, I was hospitalized with what the doctors labeled psychosis. I can only speak for myself, but I believe that if I had had wise people around me who understood the cosmic elements as well as the process, who could have held safe space for me and allowed me to go through the journey... i may have come out the otherside without need for medical intervention. I do not know because I was forceable strapped down and medicated...and when i awoke was back in normal reality.
    What are your thoughs on Paul Levi's work?

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    Canada Avalon Member Richard S.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    After forty years of daily use, I have stopped completely for 6 months now. Cold turkey!

    I can't start to express the benefits I am experiencing.
    No one can now promote this in front of me and tell me that marijuana smoke inhalation is good for you, I have the experience first hand, and plenty of it

    This just to mention, the dreams I am getting are like the floodgates have not been opened, they have been removed...

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    United States Avalon Member Ratszinger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    I did it a lot when I was younger. I started later than all my friends though and by some number of years actually. They were all doing it around me all the time for a couple years but once I started I liked it. However, the idea of ever getting hooked on it was a joke. Finding it was you know, hit or miss. Alcohol was readily available and that was the true gateway drug if there ever was one. Only now with legal pot and the frequent use of it is it coming into a field of focus where people will do studies like this or similar. I personally don't trust the motives of someone doing a controversial study such as this with a preset predisposition for how they feel about it already established. Going in objectively seems to be the only honest way.

    Psychosis to me is to 'severe' a word to apply here also. I don't see that severity of separation from reality in any of the people I have known that smoked. I myself smoked heavily for a long time and drank. It had nothing to do with my success or my job and never once showed any signs of hurting me at all even with heavy use. I quit for many years like fifteen years later after that fact of just cold turkey quitting everything back in what was it, 02.? Yeah it was cold so it must been that first quarter of the year maybe. Anyway I gave it all up. Then I got cancer. I still dont' drink but I got the marijuana license and had my prostate removed, only to have the the PSA still be climbing after the surg. so I have to get radiation treatments to which are ongoing. I honestly don't know how I could get through it without the marijuana. Even the oncologist who is from London by the way, suggested it over anything he could prescribe me! So I do it and it works.

    Effects? Oh yeah but no surprises. Did you know they sell marijuana that doesn't have a psychoactive effect? They do! I smoke some of it but only for the benefit of not getting sick at my stomach. The other thing people ignore about legal pot is that these studies focus on recreational use and it's unfair to the people like myself using it for medical purposes because it totally ignores what it's needed for and how well it works! I have a small amount of pot in my bowl in the morning and I smoke it maybe three tokes to get rid of it all. Then I do that maybe again around noon, and then before bed. I don't even notice the smoke or effect of it in my lungs, & just had a full body scan two days ago showing clear lungs after nearly 30 years of heavy pot smoking when I did do it for recreation. Now I don't even buy the heavy THC stuff. I get the high CBD and cancer and pain fighting effects when I need it and it's nice to know it's available but for instant relief nothing beats the stuff they provide for the burning and general feeling of depression you get from just dealing with it daily as they light you up more and more each day.

    Anyway I don't care that you want to do studies but they should be fair and balanced and always point out the true benefits medically that the plant does provide to people that really need it. Not every one is doing it to get wasted.

    Lastly this study ignores the other effects of psychosis, like environment and trauma from abuse and so on. Other factors can influence this so to focus on just pot seems a bit, well like someone just wants to single out this plant for some reason.

    As I use it I may develop a need to go off into some altered state of awareness if this reality gets too painful I suppose but if it's just the sunburn and not being able to wear a belt or sit in a high back chair and the little burn I get when I go to the rest room and marijuana can relieve that then so be it. Psychosis or not I'd smoke the pot and be comfortable! Lower astral plane or not!
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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    United States Avalon Member Ratszinger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Oh, the lower like bottom grade THC content plants that have the highest CBD that I like both the flavor and true relief from are Painkiller XL strain, and Fast Eddie strain. Both of these were bought local and have 6% THC which is basically not going to be even noticed by an old stoner from the 50's in two or three hits in the morning. The pain relief and nausea relief is truly remarkable. I also use the CBD drops which control upset stomach quite a bit and highly recommend them. Just in case anyone was wondering. You can add that to your study I guess. There are probably other strains I could try but that is the two local varieties they offered me based on my treatment plan which was mapped out by like five different specialists and none of them objected to the pot, most highly suggested I have it on hand and one flat out admitted they could not provide anything better.
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    It also depends on the Marijuana you are taking:

    Is it good old natural weed or hi potency Skunk line?
    Skunk is a very, very strong drug and can be damaging to some straight off the bat.

    Plus how many users have also miked other substances to become ill?

    Marijuana is something to be used wisely as a mind opener as if given by a Shaman and not for fun or long term.
    Been there done that.
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
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    Exclamation Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Here in Holland Marijuana is by most Dutch citizens perceived as "no big deal" , less fear mongering, less misrepresentations, less fast judgemental "conclusions" parroted (confirmation bias syndrome) etc. ... I used it for years and eventually decided to stop ... not because some one told me so, nor was I "fearful" whatsoever ... Almost all chemical "anti-depressants" pushed & sold by Big Pharma Mafia are much worse than Marijuana ... same for Alcohol use, the hypocrisy is harrowing.

    If SOME people have traumas or other severe psychological problems it would and will come to the surface anyway with or without marijuana use ... you can not blame alcohol for psychological problems you already had when you started to use alcohol ... same for Marijuana.

    Everyone is unique how you cope with it and what kind of effect it has. To blame the plant is what most like to do ... so that you do NOT have to think further. People who appear 100% 'normal', healthy & balanced may well be "unbalanced" after Marijuana use ... not because the plant is bad but we all live in an totally insane society that if they call me "normal" I really have to worry. I rather be called "crazy" in a world of totally insane "norms" & mass bad conditioning. The moment you break free from this madness OF COURSE you appear "unbalanced" So do not blame the plant for that.

    Btw, you CAN have a "bad trip" if you start way too strong or if the quality is poor, or worse they add some other stuff in it depending if you buy "pre-rolled joints" = ±3 Euros (3 for ±7,50).

    cheers,
    John Kuhles 8 November 2019
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 8th November 2019 at 13:44.
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Everyone is different and thank goodness! Not everyone can drink milk or eat peanuts. Marijuana is the same. It can cause issues with some and is God’s magic cure for others. I would be in prison or dead without it, and I have a very happy and loving life with a beautiful wife and children, great business, etc. I don’t believe I’d have any of it without.

    Matt
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    - Susan Sarandon in Bull Durham

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    I have a long term friend that started smoking on a very regular basis once it was legalized. It absolutely created psychosis in him, with extreme paranoid delusions. At first it only seemed to happen while under the influence but eventually it became his reality construct all the time. The strange thing is he still kept smoking it. It's interesting, there was a time when he became very angry. It was the weirdest thing. The guys voice and speech pattern changed and his appearance looked so different. I swear it was like a totally different person. I do have to sat he seemed to be possessed.

    I can't imagine what the attraction was to something that makes one so paranoid. I guess the same thing could be asked to meth users. Maybe it goes back to the attraction of the original feelings one got with the substance. That was true of my relationship with alcohol.

    Personally, I never found any relaxation with marijuana, only an intense awareness and an uneasiness being on this planet that was overwhelming to me. I do see that it could be very wonderful if used wisely for some.
    Last edited by peterpam; 8th November 2019 at 12:46.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    ...
    That psychosis opens the door to demonic intrusion, of this, I have no doubt. I have experienced this first hand almost a dozen times (as stated above). That more and more research suggests this proclivity is, at least in part, genetic, I have experienced first hand as well… my father, after his suicide, was diagnosed posthumously as schizophrenic (1979 when they knew far less about it)… my oldest son has had four psychotic episodes (which so happened to include long term, heavy marijuana use in each case) and he is only 28 years old.
    Thank you for this thread - I have no doubt you are correct.

    I've smoked marijuana for about 20 years, and for most of those years had 0 concerns about it. I'm also a Christian who has always been aware of the demonic problem. I'd just never witnessed anything I might consider demonic until I began researching into psychopathy. That's when pieces began to fall together, and I began to feel a 'larger scale manipulation' was taking place.

    I still smoke, and in light of this thread I've considered stopping. When I do though, I can feel a part of me is saying "HI EVIL HERE I AM COME AND GET ME HA HA HA". I'm just not afraid of the darned demons (excuse me), but I suppose that could change...

    The possibility of schizophrenia is written on the marijuana packages where I live, so I can't help but find it concerning that even though it is a known fact that marijuana can cause psychosis, it got legalized anyway. I mean, isn't that kind of like promoting schizophrenia? (pardon my cynicism)

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    I have learned to respect Marijuana a lot more, after years of abuse.

    If I smoke marijuana (maybe once a month) I make sure I am in a positive frame of mind. I have been able to clear so many blockages whilst being high. I become my own psychologist and it has really helped me to evolve spiritually.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    I have known since my 30s that I had allergies to prescription meds and it seems the older I got the worse the allergies got. When I was 72 I injured my back and had to have surgery and the drugs they had me on were pure torture! My dear neighbor knowing my situation came to my rescue with some medicated cookies he made! I was in so much pain I was only able to sleep 1 or 2 hours at a time. I ate only part of that cookie and in about 90 minutes I realized I was NOT in any pain and was able to sleep for 8 straight hours.

    I immediately got my medical use card and changed from prescription meds to home grown. I grow it myself so I know exactly what is in it. I must say my first time made me a bit anxious and if I ingest a bit too much I feel it again. I know a breeder who is working with me to get a strain that is high CBD and low THC. That combo works best for my chronic pain.

    I tried smoking once or twice but I find for me ingesting either edibles or tinctures works best. I'm sure I'll get it figured out by the time I reach the end of this road. I did get a late start but I am a quick learner. I have learned lots and still have a lot to learn about the Sacred Plant. Cultivating it is one of my passions these days.

    I was brainwashed at an early age about the evilness of the weed and now in my late 70s I am undoing all that and learning of the many benefits of this magnificent plant.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    The thing is, the stuff you get now is much stronger than thirty years ago. One or two hits and whamo!!

    There needs to be more education for young people now when it's getting legalized in many places. It's not a toy, it's not a crutch, it's not a thing you do to be part of the crowd. It's an ally and a friend and it can show you things about your unconscious and your emotions that you've been missing. That doesn't mean you should use it whenever you feel "down" or "lost" or inadequate. That's when it starts to bite you in the ass because you're not using it wisely.

    People need to be taught these things and more--for instance take it easy--take one hit and see how you feel. The edibles are much stronger, so try a tiny piece of something. But I don't see this education going on. It can become like any other addiction and ANY addiction can lead to serious mental illness. We need elders and experiencers talking more widely about these things.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    Oh, the lower like bottom grade THC content plants that have the highest CBD that I like both the flavor and true relief from are Painkiller XL strain, and Fast Eddie strain. Both of these were bought local and have 6% THC which is basically not going to be even noticed by an old stoner from the 50's in two or three hits in the morning. The pain relief and nausea relief is truly remarkable. I also use the CBD drops which control upset stomach quite a bit and highly recommend them. Just in case anyone was wondering. You can add that to your study I guess. There are probably other strains I could try but that is the two local varieties they offered me based on my treatment plan which was mapped out by like five different specialists and none of them objected to the pot, most highly suggested I have it on hand and one flat out admitted they could not provide anything better.
    So there are legally two distinct plants in the United States: Cannabis and Hemp. (and it is a vegetable!)

    Hemp is legally defined(and is currently undergoing a comment period as they are probably gonna change the rules again) as having less than,I believe, .3% THC.

    Cannabis is anything that is over that limit.

    The thing is, all hemp becomes cannabis given enough time on the plant. So to get a plant that doesnt have too THC one must cut it down before it gets hot, which reduces yield sizes.

    Why .3%? No reason. Just arbitrary. Also they are talking of making that 0% THC in the future which will give certain actors in the market a monopoly on the genetics of those plants which have 0% THC and it will reduce the value of the medicine as there is interplay between THC and CBD.

    The hemp does really help alot people with a variety of ailments. BTW. Ratzinger( and anybody else in the US sorry to the people outside of the US) if you need a source for certified organic smokable CBD flower send me a PM and we can discuss.

    Source: I am a Organic Farmer and we grow smokable hemp.

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    Exclamation Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    12 of the Biggest Myths About Marijuana Debunked

    Weed is not more dangerous than alcohol

    US Rep. at Pot Hearing: 'People Don't Smoke Marijuana and Beat Up Their Wives'

    Marijuana Myths go up in Smoke!
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 8th November 2019 at 15:25.
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by ZenBaller (here)
    Working at a psychiatrist office for some years, I can confirm that we have plenty of patients with psychosis induced by marijuana. The sad thing is that most of them are teenagers. My humble opinion through experience from friends and patients, is that the use of marijuana tends to make individuals lose the ability of being conscious in the spiritual sense. As Eckhart Tolle would put, it puts them in a euphoric state which is below the mind and not above it. It might make you feel much calmer or even provide lower astral experiences. However not because of a raised awareness but from its dip in a lower state of consciousness.
    It's the bliss of ignorance effect which also seems to create energetic "holes" because of the lowering of consciousness.
    When I woke up this morning and, after a cup of coffee, decided to look at PA and the thread I started last night, I saw all these responses, many questions and am compelled to try and respond back. To save on time I will simply address all I can.

    Here goes -

    Again, I want to emphasize, I am not only not against marijuana, I am pro-marijuana but with a major caveat I will address in another post.

    Also, I want to make clear, my views and opinions are not solely driven by my experiences. After I had the last episode (the one where I was convinced it was marijuana induced – which I will also explain in a later post), I have put in hundreds of hours of research into the possibility there might be a connection between marijuana and psychosis. I was amazed when I found there’s a great deal of research that led to the conclusion there is this connection and that the research dates back over a century.

    I will strive to make a post or two citing many of the easily verifiable sources for all of this soon, but I also want to state again and will continue to emphasize something I am strongly against… and that is the demonization of marijuana. I am of the firm opinion you are not ever going to be able to put the cork back in the bottle with regards to marijuana such that we somehow eradicate it and/or make it so illegal and so culturally unacceptable, that the world will one day find itself without marijuana. If we add the increasing evidence of positive medical uses of marijuana (especially the non-psychoactive compound, CBD) and we remember that hemp has been in high use for millennia and in all sorts of practical ways, cannabis is here to stay.

    The few who have experienced a dangerously negative experience with marijuana (and we are actually talking about THC and also talking about high percentages of THC and/or large consumption of THC), are truly a very tiny percentage of the population. Yet also, and this is well documented in numerous studies, those who smoke marijuana and to the extent they do so, especially if they begin in their teenage years, experience lower IQs. Some studies suggest the impact of heavy usage starting from an early age decreases IQ permanently. In addition, studies show a marked negative impact in relation to emotional development… again, more so if the user begins in their teens and to a greater degree the earlier they start using. Again, this is well documented. And though I am just one person, all of that seems to have happened to me.

    I didn’t like being informed of this information. Not because it seemed true for myself, but because all three of my sons are “wake and bakers” and each struggle with their lives in ways I am certain that without marijuana ever entering their lives, each would not have the struggles they face today. My guilt as to my own example, though I had large stretches of sobriety once they were born, is something I always have to live with.

    In post #2 – ZenBaller, your experience supports the claim that the younger folks are much more vulnerable to the psychosis possibility. That’s proven in studies. In addition, and with regard to my own experience of ten bona-fide psychosis episodes, by the time I was 32 years old, I had emerged grounded again from seven of these dark episodes. The first was when I was 19. So I had seven in 13 years and only 3 in the next twenty two years. My research found this same pattern widespread.

    I began in my teens having used marijuana for the first time when I was 15. And within a month of trying marijuana, I became a daily user that started in the morning. We are called “wake and bakers” and make up about 20% of the group that have used marijuana once or more and that group hovers around 50% in the US. So my own experience places me in an ever shrinking sub group within sub groups.

    I would like to comment about this particular statement within your post – “…the use of marijuana tends to make individuals lose the ability of being conscious in the spiritual sense.” It seems that the vast majority of users could appear this way. Yet, my experience with others suggests otherwise. This may be a result of the type of folks I would socialize with and so I emphasize my opinion here is based on personal experience only and is not meant to suggest broad based fact. But regarding Tolle's statement, studies do not address this as sadly, science places no value on spirituality. Just like my experiences inform my opinion, what Tolle stated is also just opinion. In my experience, I found that marijuana smokers were far more open minded and exploratory with regards to spiritual possibilities. Far more of my friends and associates who used marijuana (and many of these moved on in their lives and eventually left marijuana behind) were noticeably more spiritually open to the folks I encountered that never touched substances with the exception of those who were religious. But in most of the cases where folks appear religious, most of them remained in the realm of exoteric, dogmatically driven religion where few ventured into the esoteric, mystical explorations found in the heart of all traditions/religions. Note my experience is rooted in the West and at a time where western culture was moving away from dogmatic religion (an ongoing trend).

    So in summary, with regards to Eckhart Tolle’s comment I understand to his mind this appears true, but what he seems not to consider is that there are masses of humanity who are stuck in a state way below ‘the mind’ with regards to higher mind exploration (consciousness). Perhaps the current structure and dynamic of our world is experienced as a prison to some and thus their attempt to escape that prison can be experienced via drugs. Within the vast smorgasbord of drug options are those that can lead to shamanic type experiences and my opinion is that marijuana is not only one of them, but the most prevalent one.

    Marijuana does not exist in a vacuum. And often you find that folks who experiment with (and in some cases become heavy users of) marijuana, also experiment with other substances, some of the hallucinogenic variety and again I point to shamanic journeying. So, if we separate out the vulnerable with regards to psychosis from the rest, there’s a small portion of those who experiment with things like mushrooms, DMT, LSD, etc. who, if they are fortunate to limit their experimentation to this grouping (meaning successfully avoid heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, and abusive alcohol consumption), they sometimes find themselves in a position to do battle with ‘the darker regions’ often explored from that type of experimentation and emerge grounded enough, whole enough to reach into that higher level of spiritual exploration (often leaving behind the no longer needed 'accelerant' - mind expanding plants, mushrooms, etc.)

    My opinion is this is a route fraught with risk. Yet, in my own case, I sense I may never have accessed spiritual exploration if it had not been for my usage of marijuana. Please, do not interpret that last statement to suggest others should touch any of this stuff. My opinion about the risks stands. There appears to be far more negative results, often permanently negative by taking this route in that the “spiritual reality” encountered is of the negative variety, sometimes never fully escaped if escaped at all.

    It seems to me far too many people are satisfied with their lives without ever opening to any real higher states of consciousness. In cases where those who, for whatever reasons, take the risks by trying something like marijuana and then open themselves up to things which, if they are able to stay above the regions of darkness or, as is more often the case, dip down into the regions of darkness and then, in a reasonable percentage of cases where this has occurred, emerge from that darkness into a place of greater awareness and open mindedness to realms of consciousness… they, at the end of the day, find themselves having attained a relationship with spirituality far beyond otherwise.

    My gut tells me that those who do are a small percentage of the larger group of experimenters. And so, what of that larger portion? Well again, my libertarian views inform my opinion… life is filled with risks but our freedom to take such risks should be protected. But then there’s the small portion of this larger sub-group who end up in such a bad state they harm others or themselves. And it is this small portion the “against legalization” forces use as the reason for their stance. I have much more to share with regards to the whole thing – “legalization.”
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    I think we could approach the issue by thinking about drug control, and the money involved in it, because so many drugs were developed based on substances produced by plants.

    Many substances considered harmful are used in medicine through controlled doses, based on the idea that the difference between poison and medicine is the dosage used, so even excess water can harm the body, also too much food.

    Some time ago, I saw a study that concluded that the only part affected by continued use of THC is memory loss, which only happens when you use it a lot, but even so, when the effect of THC pass, the memory functions goes back to normal. This was measured by brain tomography in several people, and this memory loss was considered only as a transient side effect.

    Particularly, what I experienced and also saw happen with several others, was a crisis of laughter.

    Specifically, what is known here in my country is as follows:

    Quote In the early decades of the twentieth century, marijuana was released, although many people viewed it with bad eyes. In the US, the smokers were the increasingly numerous mexicans. In much of the West, smoking weed was relegated to marginalized classes and viewed with dislike for the middle class.

    Few people knew, however, that the same plant that supplied the lower classes with smoke had enormous economic importance. Dozens of medicines - from cough syrups to sleeping pills - contained cannabis. Almost all paper production used hemp fiber from the stem of the cannabis as its raw material. The cloth industry also relied on cannabis - hemp cloth was widespread, especially for making ropes, sails, fishing nets and other products that required a very tough material. Ford was developing fuels and plastics made from cannabis seed oil. Hemp plantations took over huge areas in Europe and the United States.

    In 1920, under pressure from protestant religious groups, the US enacted a ban on the production and marketing of alcoholic beverages. It was Prohibition, which lasted until 1933. That's when Henry Anslinger came into American public life - suppressing the Bahamas rum traffic. It was there, too, that weed came into the lives of many people.

    Anslinger was promoted to head of the Foreign Control Division of the Prohibition Committee and his task was to handle beverage smuggling. It was at this time that he realized the antipathy against marijuana that was taking over the nation, which worsened greatly with the 1929 stock market crash. In the south of the country, it was rumored that the drug gave mexicans superhuman strength, which would be an unfair advantage in the scramble for scarce jobs. Added to this were hints that the drug induced promiscuous sex. Based on these rumors, several states began banning the substance, and by that time marijuana became the drug of choice for jazz musicians, who claimed to be more creative after smoking.

    Anslinger clung tightly to the prohibitionist flag, struggled to spread the anti-marijuana myths, and in 1930, when the government, concerned about cocaine and opium, created the Federal Bureau of Narcotics office to deal with drugs, he articulated to head it. But the crusade was unlikely to be motivated solely by the thirst for power, as Anslinger was married to the niece of Andrew Mellon, owner of the oil giant Gulf Oil and a major investor of the equally giant DuPont.

    "Du Pont was largely responsible for orchestrating the destruction of the hemp industry" says writer Jack Herer in his book "The Emperor Wears No Clothes". In the 1920, the company was developing various petroleum products: fuel additives, plastics, synthetic fibers such as nylon, and chemical processes for making paper made from wood. These products had one thing in common: they competed in the market with hemp.

    It would be a considerable boost to the burgeoning synthetic industry if the huge cannabis crops were destroyed, removing hemp fiber and seed oil from the market. "Marijuana has been banned by economic interests, especially to open the natural fiber market to nylon," said lawyer Wálter Maierovitch, a drug trafficking expert and former national drug secretary.

    Anslinger had a powerful ally in the marijuana war: William Randolph Hearst, owner of a huge newspaper network. Hearst was the most influential person in the US. Millionaire ran his companies from a monumental castle in California, where he entertained Hollywood performers for a walk around the private zoo or laps in the indoor pool adorned with Greek statues. It was in it that Orson Welles was inspired to create the protagonist of the movie Citizen Kane. Hearst knowingly hated mexicans. Part of this hatred may have been due to the fact that during the 1910 mexican revolution, Pancho Villa's troops (who, incidentally, made frequent use of marijuana) expropriated their enormous property. Yes, Hearst owned land and used it to plant eucalyptus and other trees to produce paper. That is, he was also interested in the destruction of american marijuana - taking with it the hemp paper industry.

    Hearst began an intense campaign against marijuana in the 1930. Their newspapers went on to publish repeated drug stories, sometimes stating that marijuana caused mexicans to rape white women, others reporting that 60 percent of crimes were committed under the influence of drugs (a figure taken from nowhere). At that time, the story emerged that smoking kills neurons, a myth repeated to this day. It was Hearst who, if not invented, at least popularized the name marijuana (he wanted a word that sounded very hispanic, to allow direct association between the drug and the mexicans). Anslinger was a constant presence in Hearst's newspapers, where he told his horror stories. Public opinion was terrified. In 1937, Anslinger went to Congress to say that under the influence of marijuana, "some people embark on delirious rage and commit violent crimes."

    The congressmen voted to ban the cultivation, sale and use of cannabis, disregarding polls that the substance was safe. Not only the drug, but the plant was forbidden. Man simply disallowed the right of the Cannabis sativa species to exist.

    Anslinger has also acted internationally. He set up a network of spies and attended meetings of the UN predecessor League of Nations, proposing increasingly harsh treaties to curb international trafficking. It also began to find leaders from various countries and bring to them the same terrifying arguments that worked with the americans. It was not difficult to convince governments adopted federal anti-marijuana laws.

    "Drug prohibition serves governments because it is a form of social control of minorities". It works like this: marijuana is mexican stuff, mexicans are a nagging class. “Because you can't ban someone from being mexican, you prohibit something that is typical of that ethnicity”. This way you can keep all mexicans under control - they will always be threatened with jail. That's why the marijuana ban was so successful in the world.

    The ban became a form of international control by the US, especially after 1961, when a UN convention ruled that drugs were bad for the health and well-being of humanity, and therefore coordinated action was needed. to curb their use. "This made room for US military interventions. It has become an opportune pretext for americans to enter other countries and pursue their economic interests."

    A worldwide structure was set up to keep drugs illegal, marijuana among them. A year later, in 1962, President John Kennedy fired Anslinger - no less than 32 years ahead of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics office. But prohibitions and economic interests have remained.
    Last edited by rogparan; 8th November 2019 at 16:04.
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    I know loads of people that have smoked pot for years and are okay with it. Sadly I’ve witnessed a family member in full blown drug induced schizophrenia from smoking marijuana. It’s horrific. You have my deepest compassion Sammy for having experienced the negative side effects as well as witnessing others and having to struggle with support and coping mechanisms.

    I agree with the possibility of “demonic” entry/experience. Descriptions of what my stepson was experiencing and “fighting off” fit the criteria and when I was present during episodes a parasitic presence was visceral.

    It was also like there was a rip in the fabric of this reality and he was conscious of another reality simultaneously ~ couldn’t understand why we couldn’t see what he was seeing. All of it led to overwhelming confusion and frustration and then violent rage from the entrapment.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Some article headlines from Sott.net

    Is schizophrenia an autoimmune disease?
    https://www.sott.net/article/259719-...immune-disease

    How Marijuana May Drive the Brain into Psychosis
    https://www.sott.net/article/239812-...into-Psychosis

    Cannabis CBD extract helps reset brain function in psychosis
    https://www.sott.net/article/394701-...n-in-psychosis

    Psychosis in teens may be linked to an unlikely culprit: air pollution
    https://www.sott.net/article/410046-...-air-pollution

    Schizophrenia and Gluten Sensitivity - Is There a Connection?
    https://www.sott.net/article/244953-...e-a-Connection

    Sleep deprivation leads to schizophrenia symptoms
    https://www.sott.net/article/281535-...renia-symptoms

    Harvard researchers say certain ADHD medications may increase risk of psychosis
    https://www.sott.net/article/414437-...k-of-psychosis

    Celiac psychosis: Can wheat make you crazy?
    https://www.sott.net/article/321649-...make-you-crazy

    So it may be possible there are many contributing factors for psychosis and schizophrenia. Imagine if you are a teen on ADD drugs, living in a highly polluted city, working at night, eating wheat bread, tired, high on pot with a compromised autoimmune system.

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