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Thread: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    If I am able, because it’s difficult to talk about, I will share more. But my “war stories” are not why I created this thread. The reason for creating this thread is to explore the likelihood (only my opinion) that what may lie at the heart of “mental illnesses” like schizophrenia and extreme bipolar situations, both which often lead to full blown psychosis events, is not just some “chemical imbalance” situation… no, no – its demonic attention, demonic intrusion.
    If "you" are not in control of your mind or body, who is?

    I would say there is a power in man which when increased, can only lead to illumination or to demons. Most people are not usually powerful enough for it to really do anything. But if it works, the same thing will cause "single eye illumination", which is certainly a good feeling, or, it will burst into thousand of fragments throughout the body and feels bad and nightmares come to life. Really, the same power is either bliss or schizophrenia, depending on how the electricity flows.

    It is likely to fail if for any reason you fail to safeguard it.

    So I think we wind up with a lot of people who are partially possessed.

    You can't really blame the demon, in fact I have a healthy degree of respect for them. It's a matter of control. Those are the options, control them, or suffer the consequences.

    I guess there is a normal degree of disturbed emotion or mental imbalance that is an understandable response to certain stimuli. It's got a pressure point like a balloon that eventually bursts. In those situations you can "see" demons stalking people, but they are just the energy of it, and mostly it is human free will that beckons them. My life consists of trying to make this work right, and it is not easy, since demonic influence is welcome nearly everywhere. Not trying to say I'm not heavily damaged. Just interested in making the control factor work.

    Full possession is relatively rare, but I would agree that obsession and partial possession are common.

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    Hi Sam, Thanks for sharing...I hear what a struggle this was for you. I understand how out of this world intense this state is...and experiencing it 10x is massive. I'd be curious to know your thoughts as to whether this would be different if we didn't live in such a harsh, unsupportive, and medicalized society. As I wrote about in Jump in the Blue, I was hospitalized with what the doctors labeled psychosis. I can only speak for myself, but I believe that if I had had wise people around me who understood the cosmic elements as well as the process, who could have held safe space for me and allowed me to go through the journey... i may have come out the otherside without need for medical intervention. I do not know because I was forceable strapped down and medicated...and when i awoke was back in normal reality.
    What are your thoughts on Paul Levi's work?
    Item by item… “I'd be curious to know your thoughts as to whether this would be different if we didn't live in such a harsh, unsupportive, and medicalized society.”
    I could write pages and pages on this very question. The short answer though is, “Of course.” But having said that, in my own experience, the emergence of the psychosis still would have happened. I am jumping ahead here a bit, but I am increasingly coming to the theoretical idea that long term heavy use of potent (high THC percentage) marijuana causes metabolic reactions that exacerbate and/or accelerate what eventually becomes a psychosis. Let me further clarify, I do not conclude THC causes this. I conclude that my form of ingestion (smoking it in a bong) and how that smoke and all the smoke brought into my system, eventually ignited the psychosis. The THC is the psychoactive compound that induced the shamanic journey experience. By combining the effects of “the high” with the reality of my life (a challenging one), it was easy for me to become addicted.

    So to all readers, please, see the points I am making with regards to my own (and only my own) personal experience combined with my extensive research and some of the theories I have tied into the whole matter. What if (and this is my current view) I presented a unique combination of psychological vulnerability and physiological vulnerability whereby when I tried marijuana and then became immediately addicted, my form of ingestion and that which I ingested through that form set of a series of physiological/psychological/psychospiritual changes whereby that doorway to the dark forces flew wide open. Each psychosis always began with a change where I started having psychic experiences. In time, paranoia would emerge.

    When I would begin to experience an increase in the two, that’s when the psychosis experience would begin. The time it took for the first psychic experiences to become full blown psychosis was short in my youngest days – maybe a month or two. But as I got older, the time frame expanded. By the time I had my 8th experience (1989) it took several months and in fact, was one of the only two times I did not end up in a psychiatric facility).

    My tenth (and last experience) was the most important experience of them all. For one, I had not used marijuana in the form of wake and bake for eleven years. In addition, for the full two years prior I had not touched any other substance including alcohol. In fact, for five months prior to my re-entry into the use of marijuana, I was completely without any substance of any kind. Yet when I found myself once again trying marijuana (August of 2010 and one month short of my 53rd birthday), I started daily use which, within a few weeks became the daily, all day routine. Why did I do this? Because that mid-August day when I tried marijuana again, I went into an amazing state of what I call hyper-quantum synchronicity (psychic). That type of experience is so incredible and so beyond mundane, boring, waking state five sense reality, that I instantly went back to daily use. It took 15 months for the paranoia to begin. Once that began, it took less than two months for a full-blown psychosis to emerge.

    What is vitally important to me and why I created this thread must be re-emphasized. IMO we best not lose sight of how I have characterized the psychosis experience – essentially that it opens the door (or pushes the already open door even more open) to demonic intrusion. THAT is the reason I created this thread.

    “As I wrote about in Jump in the Blue, I was hospitalized with what the doctors labeled psychosis. I can only speak for myself, but I believe that if I had had wise people around me who understood the cosmic elements as well as the process, who could have held safe space for me and allowed me to go through the journey... i may have come out the otherside without need for medical intervention.”

    I agree 100%. Psychosis, however it comes about… whatever might be the underlying factors and/or causes, if understood to be what (at least to me) it seems to be… an opening of a doorway to higher zones within the Grand Reality - all maya, all illusion to some yet to those like myself who have experienced psychosis, especially dark psychosis, as much as I want to see it as maya, the fact of my experience suggests it as all too ‘real’ at the experiential levels of our being. Psychosis all too often leads to self harm and/or the harm of others. Yet there are those who experience states that seem much the same as the states where dark psychosis emerges whereby these states produce incredibly positive experiences.

    And so, my question has been, is it the state that is at fault? Or is it the state of affairs of one’s current reality experience and the state of affairs of one’s spiritual, mental, emotional well being at the time they enter these states that informs the experience? I would put my money on, “Yes.”

    Our world appears to me to be almost completely insane. My individual state was screwed up from my earliest memories and though I could point to circumstances that some would consider as the reason, but in all honesty, from the age of six years old onwards, I was a very disturbed kid. So by the time I had my first real psychotic break (age 19), I was ripe for the experience to be a dark one. And the treatment I found myself having to endure (the psyche facilities) had no clue how to deal with me. Interestingly, I was diagnosed bi-polar. But after I came down from the raging psychosis, the drug they used to bring me down was discontinued. And no other medication was used. I returned to the five-sense world but never forgot the details of the psychic experiences that filled the episode. As of that experience, I was convinced there was more to reality than the mundane, material, five-sense world, despite what mainstream science was so strongly pushing.

    “I do not know because I was forceably strapped down and medicated...and when i awoke was back in normal reality.”

    That’s sad to read. I was fortunate as they withdrew the “anti-psychosis” medication quickly and so I emerged slowly and thus had continued to experience psi. And the good thing for me was that I felt safe and so the paranoia went away. But also, as the days marched on, that psychic stuff all diminished and indeed I found myself once again in the five-sense world. But also, it felt like a prison and I never forgot the experience of an expanded reality. In fact, that was what always enticed me back into use.

    Lastly, What are your thoughts on Paul Levi's work? I understand the views he holds and why he holds them.

    This quote attributed to Levy seems to some his view and concerns up –

    “Wetiko psychosis is at the very root of humanity's inhumanity to itself in all its various forms. As a species, we need to step into and participate in our own spiritual and psychological evolution, which means that we must focus our attention on and contemplate this most important topic before this virulent madness destroys us.”

    He combines two words – Wetiko and psychosis. From my understanding, Wetiko (described here) - suggests a grander, collective psychosis albeit that it manifests within individuals. If ever something like this may actually be “truth” this may very well be it. This virus is a "mind virus" and the infection stems from "evil spirits" (demonic entities in my vernacular). When I consider the plethora of reported individual experiences of demonic intrusion while considering how many have gone unreported combined with my view as to the state of affairs on Earth today, it would be no surprise to me there’s accuracy in suggesting this is a virus of the mind in the whole planet is infected. And that what we are facing is a mass psychosis. And that this is a mass demonic invasion.

    From the article –

    “According to Native Americans, Wetiko is an evil spirit that invades human minds. It’s a “virus” of selfishness.”

    And

    “…we live in an era where most psycho-social phenomena proves the existence of a “virus” of selfishness.”

    Levy offers a solution, shadow work, a clearly effective path to take. It is one of the tools in my own arsenal. Emphasis, one of many. And I have a long, long way to go in this regard.

    My opinion with regards to solution is that it all must emanate from the individual yet, practitioners of "evil spirit removal" can certainly play a vital role, what is most greatly needed is a complete opening of the mind of the masses of humanity that what we are dealing with is an invasion of that which is not easily reconcilable to our five sense, material realm but ever so powerful as to its influence, its impact. And that we need to move away from argument between us as to whether or not demonic intrusion is "real" and for those who are open to the idea it is indeed "real" need to avoid argument as to whose religious paradigm is most right about the matter as this is an exact result of the very demonic intrusion.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by ZenBaller (here)
    the use of marijuana tends to make individuals lose the ability of being conscious in the spiritual sense. As Eckhart Tolle would put, it puts them in a euphoric state which is below the mind and not above it.
    What a profound and accurate statement. Almost always overlooked in the discussion about 'any' mind-altering substances. The politics (as it always does) misdirects people from searching the information that is true and beneficial.

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    One of the great mistakes people make whether they are pro or con marijuana, is what is called “confirmation bias.” I have already read some posts in this thread that appear to be heavily influenced by confirmation bias.

    The fact is that there are dozens of studies that have been conducted without having any pre-determined outcome desire. Because the various things studied and the results obtained are so wide ranging, there’s all sorts of results which can suggest one or more positives about all aspects of marijuana and studies that suggest negative results pointing to one or more aspects of marijuana but there are also studies that point to both positive and negative aspects of marijuana.

    As I warned in the OP, if a reader has already picked a side (much like the dynamic we find with regards to the political situation in the US today), the reader risks missing information they might otherwise benefit from opening their mind to or worse, waste their time in presenting a one sided opinion that borders imposition of truth using third party generated information sources that have cherry picked their information (much of it uncorroborated) to defend their view – doing so in a way that degrades this discussion into an argument. Despite my warning, this has emerged on this thread, a thread I placed into the forum where my own recover from my own addictions would never have occurred without.

    So again, I do not view marijuana as “bad.” I believe marijuana has all sorts of benefits for different folks in specific circumstances. I also believe (and know from personal experience and concerted research efforts) that marijuana can be unacceptably risky for a small portion of the human population, risks that can result in psychosis, significant demonically generated thoughts that lead to actions taken by the afflicted that all too often result in self harm and harm to others.

    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    Oh, the lower like bottom grade THC content plants that have the highest CBD that I like both the flavor and true relief from are Painkiller XL strain, and Fast Eddie strain. Both of these were bought local and have 6% THC which is basically not going to be even noticed by an old stoner from the 50's in two or three hits in the morning. The pain relief and nausea relief is truly remarkable. I also use the CBD drops which control upset stomach quite a bit and highly recommend them. Just in case anyone was wondering. You can add that to your study I guess. There are probably other strains I could try but that is the two local varieties they offered me based on my treatment plan which was mapped out by like five different specialists and none of them objected to the pot, most highly suggested I have it on hand and one flat out admitted they could not provide anything better.
    This is why so much additional research should continue regarding marijuana. And just because my opinion is that additional research should be done does not mean my opinion holds that until this research is done, medical marijuana and recreational marijuana should be illegal. Again I am a strong libertarian on this matter.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Sammy, I have a lot of respect and sympathy for your experiences, you've been through a lot and I think, I know now, that you see marijuana as being central to your difficulties. What I think (humbly said) and I think what you're pointing to, is that the ganja served to aggrandize already existing cracks in your relationship to your reality and your self.

    You mention the MJ experience after you'd stopped for a while being unbelievable, synchronistic and life changing. Then you went into an every day/all day routine of use. You see, I would stop right there: that's not use anymore, that's simply Abuse. Then that eventually led you to what you call "full-blown psychosis" and perhaps some kind of demonic encounter.

    As I said in my post above, MJ is not something to take lightly. It demands respect and willingness to learn from its lessons. Was it the MJ by itself that opened you to mental maladies? Or the anxiety, paranoia, etc., that you exposed yourself to by abusing the plant? Let's say you fasted for 30 days or you only ate mushrooms (non-drug) or you exercised six hours a day. Those excessive actions too might open you to frightening altered states of mind, perhaps leading one to question one's sanity.

    MJ addiction is real. It feels so good (sometimes) we want to do it today, tomorrow and the next day. Without a spiritual practice using MJ or any other entheogen (of which MJ is def one) you are on a treacherous path.

    One more thing: I think people sometimes get scared when the MJ is very strong and it opens them to thoughts and intuitions they're not prepared for. I've seen it in myself. I once had a horrible feeling of being sliced away from all of creation, a speck of being in an endless universe. It was terrifying. But because I had some other understandings and inclinations, I could process it and see it as my innate existential anxiety at coming into this world again, seemingly alone. Ganja is a teacher. A healer. But we need to listen.

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Sunny-side-up (here)
    It also depends on the Marijuana you are taking:

    Is it good old natural weed or hi potency Skunk line?
    Skunk is a very, very strong drug and can be damaging to some straight off the bat.

    Plus how many users have also miked other substances to become ill?

    Marijuana is something to be used wisely as a mind opener as if given by a Shaman and not for fun or long term.
    Been there done that.
    Very well said.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    thanks for the thread Sammy! as usual, i can feel you striving for complete honesty in every sentence. i really appreciate your thoughtfulness, and i'm thrilled to see you posting here again.

    i consider your journey to be the hero's journey, in the sense that you've traveled to extremely dangerous areas most of us haven't been to and you've returned in one piece to articulate it for the rest of us. thank you for that.

    i have close friends who are heavy weed smokers. they always try to get me to smoke with them, which i've always found odd. i'm a beer drinker, and it's never mattered to me either way whether the people around me are drinking or not; plus, that's just less beer for me if i'm sharing it.

    anyway, i've never been able to take more than one hit off a blunt. this brings my friend mike - my weed smoking buddy - great amusement...and till this day he still calls me "Uno". hasn't called me mike in ages. not once. it's Uno.

    any more than one hit, and i'll likely fall asleep. weed makes me lethargic mostly. and even though it has a reputation for causing relaxation, it tends to make my heart thump thump in my chest.

    very quickly, there's an example of weed affecting 2 people in very different ways. for my friend mike, who is very high strung, it relaxes him. for me, a pretty laid back individual, it makes me lethargic and sleepy.

    for our mutual friend, jeff, it has more of a sammy effect. i recall mike and jeff and i going to a movie once, and jeff suddenly disappearing. retracing our steps, we found him sitting on a bench in front of the theatre, white as a ghost, on a cell phone, begging his mother to come and pick him up. he'd smoked weed, something he almost never does, and it messed with him in a major way. he was hospitalized that night. but it must be said that jeff has a history of depression and anxiety and was taking various medications at the time.

    i think it's likely that sammy and jeff are outliers. most people that smoke weed will either have a pleasant high, a giddiness, a sense of relaxation and mild euphoria, or like me...merely tiredness and lethargy.

    in general, i don't think it's a dangerous substance. probably less harmful than beer. however, here's the thing: anyone who is casually using alcohol or weed on a daily or weekly basis - i'm including myself here - is doing some sort of psychic damage to themselves..which,while maybe unclear now, will certainly reveal itself later. i've discovered this the hard way. it sounds cliche, but this type of substance intake is merely masking symptoms..emotional and mental and maybe even spiritual that one just can't muster the courage to face. so the weed is just kicking the can down the road really. you'll have to face that fear or emotional wound (or whatever you're trying to hide from yourself) at some point, so you might as well do it now. the longer you wait, the harder and more traumatic it will be. take it from Uno.
    Last edited by Mike; 8th November 2019 at 18:16.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    I've been an on and off user of THC for 30 years. There have been years between uses sometimes. Marijuana, Hashish and, more recently and in interactions with Millennials, I've tried dabs a couple of times, which is a THC concentrate.

    Potentially crazy-making. Not a fan, will never use that form of THC ingestion again.

    One curious side effect of not using THC for long periods of time is that when you do, it is as you do indeed become another version of yourself. I find myself looking around at the world when the "high" sets in and my perception is one of, 'Oh, I'm back now. Finally. Why in the hell did I stop smoking for so long?'

    In these instances, I can look back at the memories of when I was NOT smoking and the decisions I made and, without fail, my mental response is 'Omg, what a bad decision this was, that was, what was I thinking,' with the invariable thought arising, 'I am back now and everything is going to be alright.'

    Does this mean that I am potentially schizophrenic? Quite possibly. I have had many psychic experiences in my life, from hearing voices to out of body experiences. Those of us who straddle that line or who have passed fully into an alternative state of being, being continuously immersed in the experiential reality of multidimensional perception, are perhaps liminal beings in a world where not everybody is that way or necessarily has that potential.

    Plant teachers are spirits and marijuana is feminine. The way that it allows you to concentrate upon the ephemeral and the nuanced experience of the moment and the thought process can open the way to some very profound realizations, while also encouraging the kind of torpor commonly associated with weed. This passage, from Who is Cannibis, captures the feeling associated with her arrival/return well:

    Quote I smoke very slowly: first set up my tray (which acts as an easily moveable, tiny altar), then a silent or spoken greeting in anticipation, a smoky breathe indrawn when I light up, a warm hello to the feeling that gently floods me, a big sigh, a lifting off of something from my physical frame. A large, gentle, lighter-than-air arm lightly embraces these weary shoulders; an opening happens. I may take a second toke. Then I feel her along my side, I feel her arm as she sits beside me. Little me, who feels as diminutive as a small girl next to her. The window in my mind opens to my beloved Big Sister. Here she is, I can count on her. She always shows up when I ask, she knows me; we are old companions. We chuckle from the joy of getting together again. I am so very grateful to have this beautiful, wise Big Sister in my life, she who helps me know what to take seriously and what to let go of. I feel so fully alive, in every cell. She is a gift from nature to us, a gift from the mystery itself.

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Frankie Pancakes (here)
    So it may be possible there are many contributing factors for psychosis and schizophrenia. Imagine if you are a teen on ADD drugs, living in a highly polluted city, working at night, eating wheat bread, tired, high on pot with a compromised autoimmune system.
    My opinion is that this is indeed the case. That is why I emphasized in so many posts that those like myself who suffered from marijuana induced psychosis likely had a proclivity that was in place where marijuana played the role of "the straw that broke the camels back." There's another important ingredient and that is one's susceptibility to addiction. There are many opinions as to what goes into the generation of an addiction or the creation of an addictive personality. But one opinion that is held widespread is that usually once a person becomes addicted to something (or, as in my case, many many substances as well as many behaviors) it is extremely rare if not unheard of for seriously addicted substance abuser to one day learn to "control" their intake. In my case, I never learned to control it and had only one choice, risk another eventual psychosis or abstain completely. Since January of 2012 (save for a very stupid four day slip about 4 years ago), I have maintained perfect abstinence from all substances. My family and loved ones are grateful.

    I believe my situation in this regard is extremely rare and is, in part, why I do not think marijuana (and other shamanic substances) should be illegal. Having said that, I cannot emphasize the import in being honest with yourself if you use and things go dark. One thing though that I strongly recommend is that until the brain reaches maturity (somewhere in the mid to late twenties noting this is supposed to be later for males), that use of marijuana should be avoided.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    If I am able, because it’s difficult to talk about, I will share more. But my “war stories” are not why I created this thread. The reason for creating this thread is to explore the likelihood (only my opinion) that what may lie at the heart of “mental illnesses” like schizophrenia and extreme bipolar situations, both which often lead to full blown psychosis events, is not just some “chemical imbalance” situation… no, no – its demonic attention, demonic intrusion.
    If "you" are not in control of your mind or body, who is?

    I would say there is a power in man which when increased, can only lead to illumination or to demons. Most people are not usually powerful enough for it to really do anything. But if it works, the same thing will cause "single eye illumination", which is certainly a good feeling, or, it will burst into thousand of fragments throughout the body and feels bad and nightmares come to life. Really, the same power is either bliss or schizophrenia, depending on how the electricity flows.

    It is likely to fail if for any reason you fail to safeguard it.

    So I think we wind up with a lot of people who are partially possessed.

    You can't really blame the demon, in fact I have a healthy degree of respect for them. It's a matter of control. Those are the options, control them, or suffer the consequences.

    I guess there is a normal degree of disturbed emotion or mental imbalance that is an understandable response to certain stimuli. It's got a pressure point like a balloon that eventually bursts. In those situations you can "see" demons stalking people, but they are just the energy of it, and mostly it is human free will that beckons them. My life consists of trying to make this work right, and it is not easy, since demonic influence is welcome nearly everywhere. Not trying to say I'm not heavily damaged. Just interested in making the control factor work.

    Full possession is relatively rare, but I would agree that obsession and partial possession are common.
    Because I have been fortunate to rise above my challenge, (using metaphor) I stand today with my foot on the neck of the demonic intrusive forces... the forces I have experienced and which I seem to have unwittingly, through ignorance of the dynamic and through risky behavior, opened the door to since perhaps I was a child.

    Interestingly though, I hold the view that I am 100% responsible. This has been stated on this forum in dozens of posts I have authored since 2012. No where in any post that I have authored suggests I blame demons and have gone out of my way to emphasize my view as to responsibility. But I have also found my view and approach is rare.

    It's very difficult to convince another that ultimately they are responsible and my stance on that matter is that I could make that determination for myself (right or wrong) but I have no right to impose that view on another (right or wrong). What I do strongly suggest to those who have proven well enough to themselves that their unwanted experiences with that which they perceive are dark forces, demonic entities, evil aliens, parasitical EDs, etc. which are experienced in conjunction with marijuana use and/or are increased by usage of marijuana leave the stuff alone.

    With regards to demonic intrusion (regardless of marijuana playing any role), how many people are able to consider their own role much less 100% full responsibility, especially in their early experiences with such forces? I say this in light of those who, unbeknownst to themselves find themselves in the very grips of demonic forces and find themselves acting as tools for such forces. Usually when folks like this start to suspect its demonic possession, they are so far gone it takes external intervention and even that has a "less than stellar" success rate. A whole huge post or two unto itself as to why.

    I wonder if the stalker that my step-daughter and thus my wife and myself have been terrorized by would listen to what you are saying. (see this post here)

    And having mentioned this again, just two days ago, my step-daughter was granted a Lifetime Protection Order by the State of Texas (which is not only lifetime but also applies to wherever she lives, works or goes to school and that means anywhere beyond the State of Texas). But also, a piece of paper won't stop a demonically possessed human being and we are well aware of that and thus, we have all (thanks to constitutionally protected rights) sought training for self protection for the day he is no longer incarcerated. In addition to the protective order, the individual has been banned from owning or possessing a firearm for the rest of his life. He can thank his facebook post for that one.

    The felony stalking case (a criminal case) will be taken up in February. The prosecutor has told us we have a strong case and though the guy has a perfectly clean record, the danger he poses could (and likely will) result in a prison term for many years. Still, he will one day get out. Demons seems to have a knack for "never forgetting." We are ready.
    Last edited by Sammy; 8th November 2019 at 20:27.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    There's another important ingredient and that is one's susceptibility to addiction. There are many opinions as to what goes into the generation of an addiction or the creation of an addictive personality. But one opinion that is held widespread is that usually once a person becomes addicted to something (or, as in my case, many many substances as well as many behaviors) it is extremely rare if not unheard of for seriously addicted substance abuser to one day learn to "control" their intake. In my case, I never learned to control it and had only one choice, risk another eventual psychosis or abstain completely. Since January of 2012 (save for a very stupid four day slip about 4 years ago), I have maintained perfect abstinence from all substances. My family and loved ones are grateful.
    Kudos, Sammy. If I may ask, is it a constant "battle" while abstaining? The stress of the constant vigilance appears to me to be so draining for so many. Have you discovered any tricks to make the cloud just dissipate?

    It always kind of annoys me when I am asked "Do you drink?" or "Do you smoke pot?" It's like a double bind question to me. No, I am not an abstainer, but yes, I will have a couple glasses of wine or tokes in a relaxed setting, by choice. Perhaps it is motive that determines the extremes, ie relaxation, expansion, social connection, or escapism. And what I pick up as the key that throws off the balance to the extremes is usually Pain (with a capital P!) Whether physical pain, mental pain, psychic pain, spiritual pain. And right now, there is a whole lotta pain in this world.

    PS - it is the pain I see that pains me. I try my best not to ever add to it.
    Last edited by Ayt; 8th November 2019 at 20:24. Reason: addendum
    "We're all bozos on this bus"

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    Quote Posted by Frankie Pancakes (here)
    So it may be possible there are many contributing factors for psychosis and schizophrenia. Imagine if you are a teen on ADD drugs, living in a highly polluted city, working at night, eating wheat bread, tired, high on pot with a compromised autoimmune system.
    My opinion is that this is indeed the case. That is why I emphasized in so many posts that those like myself who suffered from marijuana induced psychosis likely had a proclivity that was in place where marijuana played the role of "the straw that broke the camels back." There's another important ingredient and that is one's susceptibility to addiction. There are many opinions as to what goes into the generation of an addiction or the creation of an addictive personality. But one opinion that is held widespread is that usually once a person becomes addicted to something (or, as in my case, many many substances as well as many behaviors) it is extremely rare if not unheard of for seriously addicted substance abuser to one day learn to "control" their intake. In my case, I never learned to control it and had only one choice, risk another eventual psychosis or abstain completely. Since January of 2012 (save for a very stupid four day slip about 4 years ago), I have maintained perfect abstinence from all substances. My family and loved ones are grateful.

    I believe my situation in this regard is extremely rare and is, in part, why I do not think marijuana (and other shamanic substances) should be illegal. Having said that, I cannot emphasize the import in being honest with yourself if you use and things go dark. One thing though that I strongly recommend is that until the brain reaches maturity (somewhere in the mid to late twenties noting this is supposed to be later for males), that use of marijuana should be avoided.
    I hear and understand your sensible comment Sammy but people might also be missing the boat, and miss the mind opening fix for their maturer lives.
    I deeply wish I hadn't drank so much alcohol and smoked tobacco in my younger years, deeply.
    Having said that, there is no real comparison, 2 are out right poisons, the other (marijuana) is a natural mind companion when used at the right times, in the right amounts.
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Ayt (here)
    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    There's another important ingredient and that is one's susceptibility to addiction. There are many opinions as to what goes into the generation of an addiction or the creation of an addictive personality. But one opinion that is held widespread is that usually once a person becomes addicted to something (or, as in my case, many many substances as well as many behaviors) it is extremely rare if not unheard of for seriously addicted substance abuser to one day learn to "control" their intake. In my case, I never learned to control it and had only one choice, risk another eventual psychosis or abstain completely. Since January of 2012 (save for a very stupid four day slip about 4 years ago), I have maintained perfect abstinence from all substances. My family and loved ones are grateful.
    Kudos, Sammy. If I may ask, is it a constant "battle" while abstaining? The stress of the constant vigilance appears to me to be so draining for so many. Have you discovered any tricks to make the cloud just dissipate?

    It always kind of annoys me when I am asked "Do you drink?" or "Do you smoke pot?" It's like a double bind question to me. No, I am not an abstainer, but yes, I will have a couple glasses of wine or tokes in a relaxed setting, by choice. Perhaps it is motive that determines the extremes, ie relaxation, expansion, social connection, or escapism. And what I pick up as the key that throws off the balance to the extremes is usually Pain (with a capital P!) Whether physical pain, mental pain, psychic pain, spiritual pain. And right now, there is a whole lotta pain in this world.

    PS - it is the pain I see that pains me. I try my best not to ever add to it.
    I am so glad someone finally asked me (essentially), “What, this time, do you think is the secret to your abstinence?”

    It is no constant battle. For example, after my eighth psychosis experience (one of the two I did not end up in a psychiatric facility), what I attribute to a.) emerging from the psychosis and b.) a decision a month or two after psychosis had disappeared is because I was faced with an extremely serious life situation (brought on in part due to my complete loss of reason while I was psychotic and actions that stemmed from that). Essentially, I found myself involved with a young girl who became pregnant. Something within me (what little real good I may have had within me) was shaken from the grips of the psychosis because of the call to fatherhood and familyhood. That was in September of 1989. I married on November 6, 1989 and almost all the psychosis had subsided, but my addiction to marijuana remained though I had difficulties finding it and/or affording it. So through an inner call to “do better” and a lessoning of the usage of marijuana, I found myself on Christmas morning feeling like I had a cold so I decided not to smoke it up *as was my normal daily morning routine). By lunchtime I started to feel a motivation to quit. By afternoon, I told my wife I was quitting. By that evening, I knew I was quitting. The next day, the compulsion was gone. I stayed 100% clean from of marijuana and of course, all other drugs including alcohol for over seven years.

    Sadly, we lost our first baby (she miscarried at 4.5 months). But we went on to have three sons together. The sad story as to the downfall that led to the 9th psychosis was due to a meteroric rise in my professional life and eventually an entanglement with a psychologist who assured me I could grow out of my addictions. So I started back down the road with just a glass or two of wine now and then with a meal. In 1998 my wife started smoking weed (for her first time) with a few friends while I was out of town. Eventually this led to me starting up again. Incredibly she also ended up with serious “mental issues” and I have posted plenty about all that on this forum. IMO, we opened ourselves up to dark demonic intrusion and those who know the story (and are open minded to the phenomena) all fully agree.

    But again, back the reason I am responding. In 1989, my abstinence was motivated by a strong desire to be a good father/husband. I held family sacred. I viewed my wife as the heart and soul of the family (as I view my current wife (the 2nd and last this lifetime). Sadly, though I fell, I was able to extricate myself from the dark forces (in 2001). My now ex-wife, was not and this was the ultimate reason for the divorce.

    So now I must answer the same question in relation to the last event (August of 2010, throughout 2011 ending in January 2012 noting that all was good until November of 2011). Again, I was faced with a critical issue of loss of my wife (again, my second and still with me). She had reached the breaking point with the emergence of my psychosis. But the most critical reason I extricated myself from usage and the demonic intrusion and that meant usage of marijuana was because the depth of the dark experience this time almost ended in my death but also, because no other substance had I used for the prior almost two years. Yet also, because all the psi experiences (other than what always ended up being dark) were so incredible, so fulfilling, so wonderful and so, so beyond this mundane five sense world, I had never been able to experience without marijuana… after a month and a half of total despair and a complete lack of any sense of connectivity to something beyond… for the first time in my life, I began to experience that connectivity without marijuana. In fact, this not only emerged in my life experience as a sober individual, for the first time ever, I was able to manage the experiences so that my enthusiasm for more increased. And this has remained ever present in my life ever since.

    All the above is purely anecdotal. I could believe that my experience is unique or extremely rare. I only share it in case one person who could benefit from hearing my story may be motivated to take steps towards a healthier life (rid of or protected from demonic intrusion). That’s all. In fact, I feel I don’t have answers for anyone else, I only have my story.

    Demonic intrusion can come about via many doorways and combinations of doorways. Mine are many but marijuana was (and likely is) the final doorway. Its best I leave that door closed for the rest of my life. My loved ones say so, my wife requires it (made me promise if she dies before me I wont do it), in fact… my very best childhood friend who is still a daily user does not allow me (and has not allowed me since the 1989 episode) to touch marijuana in his presence and he never smokes in my presence. That is someone who has been involved in my life journey more than anyone on this Earth. He has good reason to hold his views having experienced several of my episodes first hand (one through 8).
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Sunny-side-up (here)
    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    Quote Posted by Frankie Pancakes (here)
    So it may be possible there are many contributing factors for psychosis and schizophrenia. Imagine if you are a teen on ADD drugs, living in a highly polluted city, working at night, eating wheat bread, tired, high on pot with a compromised autoimmune system.
    My opinion is that this is indeed the case. That is why I emphasized in so many posts that those like myself who suffered from marijuana induced psychosis likely had a proclivity that was in place where marijuana played the role of "the straw that broke the camels back." There's another important ingredient and that is one's susceptibility to addiction. There are many opinions as to what goes into the generation of an addiction or the creation of an addictive personality. But one opinion that is held widespread is that usually once a person becomes addicted to something (or, as in my case, many many substances as well as many behaviors) it is extremely rare if not unheard of for seriously addicted substance abuser to one day learn to "control" their intake. In my case, I never learned to control it and had only one choice, risk another eventual psychosis or abstain completely. Since January of 2012 (save for a very stupid four day slip about 4 years ago), I have maintained perfect abstinence from all substances. My family and loved ones are grateful.

    I believe my situation in this regard is extremely rare and is, in part, why I do not think marijuana (and other shamanic substances) should be illegal. Having said that, I cannot emphasize the import in being honest with yourself if you use and things go dark. One thing though that I strongly recommend is that until the brain reaches maturity (somewhere in the mid to late twenties noting this is supposed to be later for males), that use of marijuana should be avoided.
    I hear and understand your sensible comment Sammy but people might also be missing the boat, and miss the mind opening fix for their maturer lives.
    I deeply wish I hadn't drank so much alcohol and smoked tobacco in my younger years, deeply.
    Having said that, there is no real comparison, 2 are out right poisons, the other (marijuana) is a natural mind companion when used at the right times, in the right amounts.
    I agree with you with regard to perhaps 95% or more of the population. That is why I emphasized many times on this thread I do not demonize marijuana. I stress my lifelong experience with marijuana has been an exception.

    In my case, my issues with addiction and my experience with marijuana induced psychosis should preclude considerations that I should indulge in thoughts that marijuana could be a wonderful fix for something or other in my maturer life. We are talking THC here, not CBD.

    It was that very consideration which led to episode 9 (2001) and episode 10 (2011/12). So I am am not on board with suggesting to another who has experienced psychosis where marijuana was involved in the picture... "Hey, grow up a little... and when you do, you'll be able to partake in marijuana and experience all sorts of psychological and/or psychospiritual benefits." Instead I think the best advice is... explore the depths of the nature and science of being without needing substances to do so, especially marijuana. In addition, when one has those experiences (as I now do) they hold a much more real quality to them than they ever did when stimulated by substances.

    My motto now is, clean body, clean spirit, clean mind and emotions are foundational to spiritual clarity at a level that I'm most capable of obtaining (noting I feel I have much further to go, in fact, hopefully, as long as my soul desires).
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    to Caliban - Yes, I humbly agree... the cracks were there. Marijuana swung the door wide open. Thanks for your post.

    to Uno... I know several "uno's" I also know several wake and bakers who, though a little foggy at times, live a functional, harmless life where they claim they are happy and love weed. I, sadly, know my oldest son whose had four episodes (age 28) and been in a half dozen psyche facilities (two of the episodes involved more than one facility) which sadly paralleled my own experience in that marijuana seemed to be the critical factor in full blown psychosis onset. Interestingly though, he is just like I was after the first 6 episodes - convinced it was something else. In fact, I had yet to consider the psychosis events as "bad" much less demonically intrusive despite all the hell I caused others and myself. Unfortunately the seventh involved a serious "self harm" event. I am terribly embarrassed to even speak about it... some members (and former members know the story). I just want you to know, Mike, that though we have never met, I have, for a long time, felt a strong affinity to you and I hope you don't mind me sharing that. I thank you for your post.

    Rahkyt, thank you as well for a wonderfully worded post. That is such a talent you have with words and I have read so many of your posts for years. Thanks for opening up about your experiences related to this thread's content.

    There are others who posted on this page and on page one (I am set on 20 posts per page) that I wish to thank and perhaps folks can forgive my monster posts, driven by some need to get it on 'digital paper'... hopefully it may be helpful to at least one other.
    Last edited by Sammy; 8th November 2019 at 21:45.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    To ExomatrixTV - I want to thank you for all your posts all over this forum which you have posted over the years. You may have read in some of my posts that I had lived on the island of Curaçao for almost a decade of my life. For folks who don't know, the Dutch sometimes refer to the islands of the former Netherlands Antilles as "the Dutch Hawaii."

    I will never forget all the flight stops I made through Amsterdam (Schiphol). One time (in 2009) I was en route to Hong Kong ans so I flew from Panama to Schiphol and stayed at the airport hotel that night for one purpose and one purpose only - to go into town and buy (and smoke) what my research at that time had said was the strongest marijuana in Amsterdam. On my trip back to the airport, I completely blew past the stop at Schiphol. I remember the train finally stopping and just sitting there. I got out and saw I was at the end of the line. Trying to get back on, I was required to buy a new ticket! haha. I almost missed the stop the second time too!

    While living in Curaçao sometime around year 2000, a friend sold me a pound of what he said was weed smuggled in from Holland. The name was Top 44. A year later and only 11 days after I ran out of that pound, he somehow came up with another of the same breed, Top 44. That breed was instrumental in what eventually became my eighth psychosis.

    I also recall in the spring of 2000 I had to take a trip from Curaçao to Bangkok (again through Schiphol) which lasted almost two weeks. Because the folks I was involved with were of the type that marijuana was a complete no-no, I had to abstain for that long stretch. So on the return flight I scheduled a ten hour layover where I got a room at the Krasnapolsky knowing the hotel well in that it borders "the red light district" filled with "coffee shops" - (in Amsterdam, a "coffee shop" usually has menus offering all sorts of strains of marijuana). So just after arriving I went on a search and obtained what I needed and proceeded to roll "a fat one" where I parked my butt on a bench located between the hotel entrance and that tall, white obelisk. In about 15 minutes, I was in another world. I was suddenly one with everything and began to focus on several pigeons running around. I then focused on one particular pigeon about 10 feet away that was facing at 90 degrees while looking straight ahead. I then felt the urge to speak to the bird telepathically with a salutation. At that moment, the bird twisted its head on its bird like swivel and looked straight at me. I concluded that the bird was God. I was elated I finally met God.

    When I arrived back in Curaçao about 20 hours later, the first thing I told my then wife was, "Honey... I met God. And God is a pigeon that hangs at the Dam in Amsterdam." Of course, today I view the experience as one of many delusional marijuana experiences but understand, what I am calling delusional was the conclusion I drew. What was not was the experience. It seemed to me the bird certainly knew I was focusing on it and speaking to it telepathically. But who knows?
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Just after posting the above post ending with the story of the bird, my wife and I go to the grocery store. When we got there and exited the car, we observed a scene we have never experienced here before - the parking lot was inundated with a zillion birds. I pulled out the camera to video it -



    We then went and did our shopping and when we came out, there were more and they were louder. Near the car I commented to a lady who, as she neared, I could hear her talking about them to the friend she was with. You can hear our brief communication... that this was quite unusual was not an exaggeration and the passer by's comments confirm this.



    Make sure you (a reader) understands, I don't conclude anything from this... this is normal life for me ever since 2012... a constant stream of unusual synchronicities. For me, this just makes life more fun. But for someone caught in the grips of a psychosis, a synchronicity like this can have a much different and far darker impact.

    For those old enough to remember...

    Last edited by Sammy; 9th November 2019 at 00:36.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    Now I don't even buy the heavy THC stuff. I get the high CBD and cancer and pain fighting effects when I need it and it's nice to know it's available but for instant relief nothing beats the stuff they provide for the burning and general feeling of depression you get from just dealing with it daily as they light you up more and more each day.
    I do think there are some key words here, high CBD, not THC...

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    Oh, the lower like bottom grade THC content plants that have the highest CBD that I like both the flavor and true relief from are Painkiller XL strain, and Fast Eddie strain. Both of these were bought local and have 6% THC which is basically not going to be even noticed by an old stoner from the 50's in two or three hits in the morning. The pain relief and nausea relief is truly remarkable. I also use the CBD drops which control upset stomach quite a bit and highly recommend them. Just in case anyone was wondering. You can add that to your study I guess. There are probably other strains I could try but that is the two local varieties they offered me based on my treatment plan which was mapped out by like five different specialists and none of them objected to the pot, most highly suggested I have it on hand and one flat out admitted they could not provide anything better.
    I have always thought that smoking it was the last thing we should use it for, therein lies the idea that CBD drops would be a good route...

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)
    I have a long term friend that started smoking on a very regular basis once it was legalized. It absolutely created psychosis in him, with extreme paranoid delusions. At first it only seemed to happen while under the influence but eventually it became his reality construct all the time. The strange thing is he still kept smoking it. It's interesting, there was a time when he became very angry. It was the weirdest thing. The guys voice and speech pattern changed and his appearance looked so different. I swear it was like a totally different person. I do have to sat he seemed to be possessed.

    I can't imagine what the attraction was to something that makes one so paranoid. I guess the same thing could be asked to meth users. Maybe it goes back to the attraction of the original feelings one got with the substance. That was true of my relationship with alcohol.

    Personally, I never found any relaxation with marijuana, only an intense awareness and an uneasiness being on this planet that was overwhelming to me. I do see that it could be very wonderful if used wisely for some.
    I have someone who is close that I can't be around when this person is smoking pot, when the same person doesn't smoke I love the energy the same person has.

    Yeah, it does influence character on different levels in different forms for many...

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by sunwings (here)
    I have learned to respect Marijuana a lot more, after years of abuse.

    If I smoke marijuana (maybe once a month) I make sure I am in a positive frame of mind. I have been able to clear so many blockages whilst being high. I become my own psychologist and it has really helped me to evolve spiritually.
    The effects of occasional use versus regular use are clearly not the same...

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    Sammy (9th November 2019), Tam (24th November 2019), william r sanford72 (11th November 2019)

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