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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    The only times I've vomited off weed is due to mixing it with alcohol, especially whiskey. I had one friend vomit off weed alone but we were teens and smoking out of a 4' bong we called Godzilla.

    I don't smoke much these days. When I do it's during social events, my perspective on it has changed drastically. I may expand on this later, kinda busy (it's Thanksgiving!).
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    ... I never really wanted to escape life...i preferred the substances that made me engage it even more. I never much cared for a feeling of losing control and letting go. It frightened me. If anything, I wanted more control. ...
    I'm like you, Mike - I don't like to lose control. With (modern, bred) cannabis, it's not as simple as the number of molecules of THC per unit weight that determines the outcome, the effect. That's because the overall chemical makeup of the plant is in play, and the terpines in the cannabis play a large role in how a person is affected.

    I think that most people that experienced cannabis say, 30 years ago or more, experienced (generally speaking) the same relatively low potency plant type, with slight variances. That's not true any more. Flower breeders exponentially exploded the number of distinct varieties. Significant differences in the chemical makeup between different varieties of cannabis can yield radically different mental/emotional/physical experiences, even when the amount of THC is the same. So far (from my reading) it's obvious that the terpine ratios in the cannabis greatly affect the effect, and it's not just as simple as "sativa varieties are energetic and cerebral" and "indica varieties are sedative."

    Once you start talking about varieties, the entire vibe of the conversation changes. It's really hard to hold a scientific discussion of the benefits of cannabinoids supplementing the endocannabinoid system's intrinsic output, and then mention "Girl Scout Cookies", "Green Crack", and "Durban Poison."

    In my minor survey of websites and visits to a few dispensaries, I'd say the commercial growers are functioning within the capitalist system by maximizing the THC percentage of the flowers and maximizing the number of pounds of product per acre. Indica-rich hybrid varieties high in THC fit the bill, so it is most of what is commercially available. Sativa-rich hybrids take longer to grow and are "leggier" (longer stems and internodal sites) plants, with a plant chemistry producing effects that are less stony, more energizing, more social (laughing, chatting.) The effects of indica-rich hybrids are heavier, stonier, more body stone, tranquilizing, mesmerizing, pain relieving, couch locking. The general consumer is asking for bang-for-the-buck, and they are getting it. I believe that the prejudice toward "stonier" cannabis will change en masse when the consumers recognize that they actually appreciate less-stony/more-brainy cannabis, and demand it.

    CBD somewhat attenuates the psychotropic effect of THC, and varieties higher in CBD can provide synergistic effects of these two compounds. (The medical cannabis field is well aware of the "entourage effect" making whole cannabis and whole extracts of cannabis exhibit synergistic effects beyond that of the laboratory isolated constituents alone.) Multiply the variety of different THC:CBD ratio cannabis varieties by thousands of different terpine profile combinations expressed by varieties, and you have an enormous amount of medical concoctions with a variety of effects, psychotropic or not.

    Cannabis should not be considered as just a single substance. It's more like a vegetable stew than just any one vegetable. Different cannabis varieties have very different chemistry - and it's not just the percentage of THC.

    I think that part of the fond memory of cannabis 30, 40, 50 years ago is that it wasn't so powerful. It didn't completely take over the mood, it moderately altered it. I believe the pendulum will swing back to cannabis strains that are more like 15% than 30%, and more creative and more social and less stony and less isolating varieties will become the mainstay for cannabis in social situations (and the drooling, stupefying, couch-lock cannabis is the right choice for pain, insomnia, or cancer.) Home growers will quickly realize they can grow a medicine cabinet full of named genetic varieties with rather specific desired effects, and autoflowering varieties also remove the photo-period light issues, making it much easier to grow.

    This is one of the major changes I predict for the US market, once the US legalizes cannabis: less stony, more intellectually stimulating and energetic cannabis for the lion's share of the market (well, except the twenty-somethings that want the challenge of fighting off the effects of the latest, 35% THC, Death-Star-Depleted-Uranium-Zombie-Blueberry-Elephant-Tranquilizer-Jagged-Glass-Shards Indica, where they get to choose between the couch or the floor. Or dabs.) The other big change will be away from combustion (smoking) to flower vaporization (with none of the toxins from combustion) and microdosing edibles. The stinky, stupid, stoner archetype (that Amor is referencing) won't be extinguished, but it will be greatly diminished.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    ... I never really wanted to escape life...i preferred the substances that made me engage it even more. I never much cared for a feeling of losing control and letting go. It frightened me. If anything, I wanted more control. ...
    I'm like you, Mike - I don't like to lose control. With (modern, bred) cannabis, it's not as simple as the number of molecules of THC per unit weight that determines the outcome, the effect. That's because the overall chemical makeup of the plant is in play, and the terpines in the cannabis play a large role in how a person is affected.

    I think that most people that experienced cannabis say, 30 years ago or more, experienced (generally speaking) the same relatively low potency plant type, with slight variances. That's not true any more. Flower breeders exponentially exploded the number of distinct varieties. Significant differences in the chemical makeup between different varieties of cannabis can yield radically different mental/emotional/physical experiences, even when the amount of THC is the same. So far (from my reading) it's obvious that the terpine ratios in the cannabis greatly affect the effect, and it's not just as simple as "sativa varieties are energetic and cerebral" and "indica varieties are sedative."

    Once you start talking about varieties, the entire vibe of the conversation changes. It's really hard to hold a scientific discussion of the benefits of cannabinoids supplementing the endocannabinoid system's intrinsic output, and then mention "Girl Scout Cookies", "Green Crack", and "Durban Poison."

    In my minor survey of websites and visits to a few dispensaries, I'd say the commercial growers are functioning within the capitalist system by maximizing the THC percentage of the flowers and maximizing the number of pounds of product per acre. Indica-rich hybrid varieties high in THC fit the bill, so it is most of what is commercially available. Sativa-rich hybrids take longer to grow and are "leggier" (longer stems and internodal sites) plants, with a plant chemistry producing effects that are less stony, more energizing, more social (laughing, chatting.) The effects of indica-rich hybrids are heavier, stonier, more body stone, tranquilizing, mesmerizing, pain relieving, couch locking. The general consumer is asking for bang-for-the-buck, and they are getting it. I believe that the prejudice toward "stonier" cannabis will change en masse when the consumers recognize that they actually appreciate less-stony/more-brainy cannabis, and demand it.

    CBD somewhat attenuates the psychotropic effect of THC, and varieties higher in CBD can provide synergistic effects of these two compounds. (The medical cannabis field is well aware of the "entourage effect" making whole cannabis and whole extracts of cannabis exhibit synergistic effects beyond that of the laboratory isolated constituents alone.) Multiply the variety of different THC:CBD ratio cannabis varieties by thousands of different terpine profile combinations expressed by varieties, and you have an enormous amount of medical concoctions with a variety of effects, psychotropic or not.

    Cannabis should not be considered as just a single substance. It's more like a vegetable stew than just any one vegetable. Different cannabis varieties have very different chemistry - and it's not just the percentage of THC.

    I think that part of the fond memory of cannabis 30, 40, 50 years ago is that it wasn't so powerful. It didn't completely take over the mood, it moderately altered it. I believe the pendulum will swing back to cannabis strains that are more like 15% than 30%, and more creative and more social and less stony and less isolating varieties will become the mainstay for cannabis in social situations (and the drooling, stupefying, couch-lock cannabis is the right choice for pain, insomnia, or cancer.) Home growers will quickly realize they can grow a medicine cabinet full of named genetic varieties with rather specific desired effects, and autoflowering varieties also remove the photo-period light issues, making it much easier to grow.

    This is one of the major changes I predict for the US market, once the US legalizes cannabis: less stony, more intellectually stimulating and energetic cannabis for the lion's share of the market (well, except the twenty-somethings that want the challenge of fighting off the effects of the latest, 35% THC, Death-Star-Depleted-Uranium-Zombie-Blueberry-Elephant-Tranquilizer-Jagged-Glass-Shards Indica, where they get to choose between the couch or the floor. Or dabs.) The other big change will be away from combustion (smoking) to flower vaporization (with none of the toxins from combustion) and microdosing edibles. The stinky, stupid, stoner archetype (that Amor is referencing) won't be extinguished, but it will be greatly diminished.

    Death-Star-Depleted-Uranium-Zombie-Blueberry-Elephant-Tranquilizer-Jagged-Glass-Shards™
    We have a dispensary here that focuses on weeds of yesteryear. All the ones we knew growing up are still available to anyone that wants them and just the way they were when we smoked them back then. I've seen the old Acapulco Gold, Columbian, Maui Wowie of the 70s still just as it was back then when I smoked it in the early years of my life. They even have one labeled, "Mexican" and it's just what you'd expect from a purchase back then as a high schooler, "Dirt Weed" that gets you high. Just FYI.
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    I haven't read through this thread fully - but is "Grass"/"Weed" all that's available these days ( esp in these "dispensaries" in US and elsewhere ) or is HASH a thing of the past ?

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Did You See Them (here)
    I haven't read through this thread fully - but is "Grass"/"Weed" all that's available these days ( esp in these "dispensaries" in US and elsewhere ) or is HASH a thing of the past ?
    You can get good, old fashioned bud, and also, anything else you can think of. Hash, either straight or added to prerolled joints. Waxes, oils, tinctures, edibles of all kinds, drinkables, capsule tablets (like vitamin e), patches for your skin, creams (these generally aren't psychoactive, rather, they're for pain and inflammation), vapor cartridges (disposable and refillable), sprays (added to joints or directly applied under the tongue)... in other words, every conceivable way of ingesting it short of outright injection or snorting.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Part of my research has led to the consideration that long term, day and night smoking of high quality (high THC content is what I call high quality) marijuana could play a roll in the generate a physiological environment that increases the vulnerability of an individual to experiencing psychosis.

    [EDIT ADDED: I think Dennis has done his homework as so much of what he has said in his posts corroborates so much I have found in all my research. This is a personal public thank you extended to Dennis.]

    I will unpack this statement to make sure that what I am trying to say is not misunderstood.

    The key elements of my statement are - the smoking (in my case, mostly bonging) marijuana. When I say high quality, I am saying that from a perspective of experiencing awesome highs.

    Some of my research has pointed out that the percentages of THC in what I call "high quality" marijuana have increased since the days of the seventies from maybe 5 - 10 percent to upwards of 20 - 25 %. And so part of my experience with that which I call "high quality" is actually a three decades long journey where, if I had only had the "good weed" I thought I had in the late 70s when I had my final dark experience in 2011/12, I would have been frustrated because it wouldn't have been good enough (strong enough) to my standards in 2010.11 and 12 (the 16 month stretch of my last experience).

    So now add in this "thing" I have read in more than one place in my research... that if the CBD percentage is also of a certain degree (meaning higher than almost zero as in some cases), this balance is considered "good" from the standpoint of anyone eventually experiencing something dark (paranoia that leads into psychosis).

    But let me get back to the physiological tie in... if, among certain users, the smoking of marijuana no matter what might be its THC percentage and CBD percentage (and other chemicals naturally produced in some marijuana strains)... in time, impacts their physiology such that in some cases (and I think the word "rare" should be here too)... in some rare cases, the individual exposes themselves to that which becomes a serious paranoia which then, can become a psychosis). If this is what is playing an all important role in the very rare but very real cases of that which is labeled as "marijuana induced psychosis" and all the contributing factors are not considered then (and this is what I suspect is true), what happens is marijuana is demonized when what may really be the case is that the individual has somehow created the physiological vulnerability that if they would take measures to ensure these "changes" are avoided or greatly mitigated... then the marijuana use (in the form I described above... as this is my only experience) would not play the role it otherwise plays and thus psychosis may (and if I am right would) not be identified as a causal factor in psychosis as some have concluded.

    So if what I have suggested above holds significant truth, the problem in the anti-marijuana movement is that they are drawing incomplete conclusions which serve to demonize marijuana. And this results in unnecessary fear mongering. And my opinion is that this is just as "bad" as the "denial of risks" you get from the well funded corporate Big Marijuana movement that are driven by their greed.

    So you have unfounded fear on one side and you have unfettered greed on the other.

    In my ideal world, truth means more than either of these. Knowledge that leads to being fully and properly informed where care can be properly administered, when care is needed would rule. Where jails could be emptied when folks are in there because of this whole mess we find ourselves in today. Where the criminal element can be reduced and maybe disappear if not just decriminalized but legalized and properly regulated.

    Where research can be done without the need for all these special permits as there is overwhelming evidence or all sorts of really great benefits can be produced by using various chemicals and chemical combinations of the plant. In addition, just like in properly managed shamanic experiences with all sorts of visionary plants, and I say this based on my own experience... escaping the five sense prison is a direct benefit for some (speaking again for myself) where marijuana has played a positive role in their escape. And I add, as each of us do so, more and more of us embrace that which assist one in their own growth where the new being they become is better for others including themselves, thus a better world for all.

    A personal statement - As I have said many times in this thread, I don't demonize weed and I think it should be legal. But I also have moved my views forward since I started this thread and did additional research. I really think the physiological thing may be an important factor that seems completely overlooked where, if research was done, it may be discovered that with some lifestyle adjustments as to foods and vitamins and other supplements as well as good exercise and the employment of spiritual practices, an individual who, if they lived as I had lived all the years I had my troubles, might otherwise avoid all the dark stuff.

    Having said this though, I am 62. To try and prove my theory would be foolish as perhaps I have a certain physiological vulnerability that can't be reversed or some other type of risk along those lines. In addition, because of what my loved ones have experienced, even if I was right and was disciplined and if i went back to weed use (in the only form I like... day and night bonging, as I cannot "control" how much I use), they fear they would experience would be terrible to impose and likely my wife would leave me and I couldn't blame her.

    Understand, I never lost my love for the high. I just rose above it all and found other ways to live in peace without it.

    My wife made me promise her that if she died, I wouldn't go back. I promised her. So I am probably "done" for the rest of my life.

    I probably won't be posting here on this thread again. I really appreciate all ya'lls responses as this has been really helpful for me. I also hold out hope for my friend that he might see the wisdom is stepping aside from it for awhile to see if the targeting subsides.
    Last edited by Sammy; 29th November 2019 at 18:52.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    I agree with you Sammy, about your premise. I know people who are prone to the ill effects of weed.

    For me, everything you say about marijuana is how I feel about this world without it. I get psychosis from being straight and having to perceive this world as it is, in my face. This blatant joke of a reality is far too ludicrous to take seriously, so imagine my chagrin that most people do. I see people rushing around trying to get somewhere, but actually not getting anywhere, and telling their stories of how they did, as if it is important - as if they are important.

    Until people begin to address the unreality and absolute insane state of our world, mary jane will be my best bud...

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    As I mentioned in my first post early in the thread, I have encountered many cases of psychosis due to cannabis while working at a psychiatrist office. I didn't have anything else to add until I found out today that one of my cousins who I hadn't seen for several years suffered the same.

    He's been using marijuana since his early 20s. He had repeating problems of sleeping late and not going to work, staying isolated for hours in his room etc.. Now in his 40s, unable to adjust to this planet because of the constant passive state he is in, the delusions began taking more concrete form. More than just thoughts. His family is about to force him into a mental hospital.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by ZenBaller (here)
    As I mentioned in my first post early in the thread, I have encountered many cases of psychosis due to cannabis while working at a psychiatrist office. I didn't have anything else to add until I found out today that one of my cousins who I hadn't seen for several years suffered the same.

    He's been using marijuana since his early 20s. He had repeating problems of sleeping late and not going to work, staying isolated for hours in his room etc.. Now in his 40s, unable to adjust to this planet because of the constant passive state he is in, the delusions began taking more concrete form. More than just thoughts. His family is about to force him into a mental hospital.
    And the entire tone of this and your first reply is that marijuana is responsible for this! At the core I think the real culprit is a compulsive habit or obsessive condition and that marijuana is likely not the only thing overindulged by this person. Some people are lazy as they come and have little motivation to begin with, particularly when brought up in poor have not societies that depend on a draw and doing anything and everything to insure they get one so they are ,'taken care of for life by the system' even if a pittance. Compile that mentality and upbringing with marijane and yeah it's a bad recipe that was enhanced further by pot but hardly pot responsible. Psychosis could probably have been detected early in life in this person long before pot came to help enhance it. They were probably prone to that anyway due to environment, genetics and/or upbringing.
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Dion Waiters, professional basketball player for the Miami Heat (and former Syracuse Orangemen..my hometown team for anyone who gives a sh!t (no one)) recently had quite an experience with edibles on the team plane.

    first he had one mother of an anxiety attack, then he passed out, then he had a seizure upon awakening.
    https://www.si.com/nba/2019/11/10/di...-attack-edible

    i've read quite a bit on this - having been a fan of his for a while - and if you read between the lines a little, i imagine he experienced something resembling what Tam described in her post, give or take.

    perhaps he ate too many edibles, but i still have a hard time blaming them exclusively. i think it was likely the close confines of the plane too, and all the accompanying noise and chaos.

    airports/planes + edibles = bad. that's what i'm getting out of it all
    Last edited by Mike; 1st December 2019 at 08:46.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Dion Waiters, professional basketball player for the Miami Heat (and former Syracuse Orangemen..my hometown team for anyone who gives a sh!t (no one)) recently had quite an experience with edibles on the team plane.

    first he had one mother of an anxiety attack, then he passed out, then he had a seizure upon awakening.
    https://www.si.com/nba/2019/11/10/di...-attack-edible

    i've read quite a bit on this - having been a fan of his for a while - and if you read between the lines a little, i imagine he experienced something similar to what Tam described in her post.

    perhaps he ate too many edibles, but i still have a hard time blaming them exclusively. i think it was likely the close confines of the plane too.

    airports/planes + edibles = bad. that's what i'm getting out of it all
    Some of these reports could be cases where people opposed to marijuana lace some cookies with other things to enhance effects even more. Just to paint a negative light on it at the right time when a legal review is going on over it I'm sure. Timing is everything and when cases start coming out of the woodwork right before bills are being discussed red flags go up for me. I have a real hard time believing any of the hype and dramatic experiences because they want to present it as if a lot of new people never doing it are now smoking but the truth of the matter is that the actual number of new smokers is quite low. It's mostly people already familiar with it, that smoked it years ago, or never stopped at all really that I see when I'm at dispensary sales. The entire store yesterday was filled standing room only for the black Friday pot deals at all the local shops and most of them were old stoners from the 50s and 60s and 70s. Only a few that was talking with never tried it before and just very few. Most of them are quite familiar with it. I'm on the alert for hype stories right before legislation because I expect some backlash on the bill.

    Remember not that long ago a 'anti lynching' bill was being proposed and it has been suggested that certain someone's of a political leaning staged a public lynching type event just to further the ummmph in societies' mindset to pass that bill. I don't put it past them to try this same type stunt with pot when they stand against it. Lace the right amount to the right public figure right before the legislation and you've placed doubt and hesitation in all voters and legislators minds. So we have to take these stories with a big grain of salt in my opinion.
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Dion Waiters, professional basketball player for the Miami Heat (and former Syracuse Orangemen..my hometown team for anyone who gives a sh!t (no one)) recently had quite an experience with edibles on the team plane.

    first he had one mother of an anxiety attack, then he passed out, then he had a seizure upon awakening.
    https://www.si.com/nba/2019/11/10/di...-attack-edible

    i've read quite a bit on this - having been a fan of his for a while - and if you read between the lines a little, i imagine he experienced something resembling what Tam described in her post, give or take.

    perhaps he ate too many edibles, but i still have a hard time blaming them exclusively. i think it was likely the close confines of the plane too, and all the accompanying noise and chaos.

    airports/planes + edibles = bad. that's what i'm getting out of it all
    I've had a grand mal seizure from smoking once before, though I do have epilepsy so I don't think the average person has to worry about this. I typically have myoclonic seizures, and I've had this style of seizure triggered from smoking on a few occasions, albeit very, very rarely.

    I've also been addicted to it in the past. I know this is controversial, I'll expand on it later. It's part of the reason why I rarely smoke nowadays.
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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Just a short note to this subject. I dont want to get much into this, but something I always think about when I hear about the subject marijuana as medications.

    It is nothing natural anymore. I dont know if people think about this. This is all manipulated plants by now....gmo or what ever out of profit reasons.

    It is manipulated just like the gmo potatoes they did test rats with. The rats became among other health problmens, huge tumors and died young.

    It is manipluated...then a patent put on it..so whoever got the patent on this plant - gets the cash $$$$. I am not against marjuana or people useing it, but I am against whatever manipulations they do today to change things out of nature...we dont even know enough about it yet....

    And everything manipulated has not the same effect than a natural growing plant.

    Nature knows why this plant has to be like this and not different.

    How come people always think they know it better than nature? They wont ever know it better than Nature!!

    I know some people who consume marijuana, but I don`t. I use to in a younger age, but then stopped because I got aware of..it did not do me any good to trigger the brain for what reason ever. I understand there are people who smoke it for fun or entertainment, or against pains. I don`t blame them doing anything wrong. Everybody has to decide for themself.

    But for me it is not a way to go, even while I have chronical pains.
    I see pains as a alarm symptom of the body we should listen to. It is telling us there is something wrong and we should pay attention to it, so we can find a way to find out what causes this symptom and then to heal the body.
    It is not my way to try to calm down or ignore pain symptoms by something manipulating the pain center.

    I really understand there are many people who might need or want to take certain natural meds for pain reducement. But I think if it is something out of nature it also should be natural grown and without any manipulations like gmo or others.

    Alkohol is legal, so should be natural marijuana. This is how I think about it.

    Cigarettes are still legal, even if they try to reverse it now and make billions of $$$$$ by all the taxes they put on it....which is backed up by a major brain wash of the population...saying passive smoke harms non smokers?????

    This I see as a major discrimination of smokers. And it is not right or fair.

    Do the people really believe passive smoke harms non smokers?

    And then they park their car in front of the shopping mall and let it run until they come back from shopping....thinking this is ok?

    Some dried leaves and a little paper wont ever harm any non smoker like a running car does. In fact whatever comes out of a running car, harms everything around in the area......people, children, nature, animals.....

    And don`t forget about the chemtrails and which stuff this puts in the air (barium, strontium, aluminium aso)...and then the industrial smokes.....

    Whatever we breath in or what is mainly in the air causes the problem for all of us.

    I am really getting tired of this propaganda act against smokers they push everything on....and it is all build up on a big lie....!!!!!

    There are countries which would have a financial collapse if there would be no smokers anymore - because of all the tax money they would lose.

    Maybe something for the non smokers to think about.....


    sorry the short note...is not really short after all...it happens..

    ...............................
    Last edited by Whisper; 2nd December 2019 at 02:52.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Whisper (here)
    Just a short note to this subject. I dont want to get much into this, but something I always think about when I hear about the subject marijuana as medications.

    It is nothing natural anymore. I dont know if people think about this. This is all manipulated plants by now....gmo or what ever out of profit reasons.

    It is manipulated just like the gmo potatoes they did test rats with. The rats became among other health problmens, huge tumors and died young.

    It is manipluated...then a patent put on it..so whoever got the patent on this plant - gets the cash $$$$. I am not against marjuana or people useing it, but I am against whatever manipulations they do today to change things out of nature...we dont even know enough about it yet....

    And everything manipulated has not the same effect than a natural growing plant.

    Nature knows why this plant has to be like this and not different.

    :
    There is a difference between taking a gene sequence and using a mechanism to insert it into the DNA and selectively breeding plants ala Mendels experiments.


    Yes. Modern Cannabis has been bred to be stronger and more potent. THIS DOES NOT MAKE THEM GMO. It is irresponsible to label selectively breeding as GMO. Otherwise, LITERALLY all humans plants are GMO. YOu think the corn or any other food you eat came that way from the earth? No it has been refined since something we call the agricultural revolution.



    Nature knows nothing. You are endowing an aggregate of systems with a conscious will. While I would be willing to engage you in a conversation about something like this being the case, EVEN IF she is what you are claiming she does not have magical powers to direct the evolution of each and every species upon her.

    Please learn more about the difference between GMO and selective breeding.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Quote Posted by Whisper (here)
    Just a short note to this subject. I dont want to get much into this, but something I always think about when I hear about the subject marijuana as medications.

    It is nothing natural anymore. I dont know if people think about this. This is all manipulated plants by now....gmo or what ever out of profit reasons.

    It is manipulated just like the gmo potatoes they did test rats with. The rats became among other health problmens, huge tumors and died young.

    It is manipluated...then a patent put on it..so whoever got the patent on this plant - gets the cash $$$$. I am not against marjuana or people useing it, but I am against whatever manipulations they do today to change things out of nature...we dont even know enough about it yet....

    And everything manipulated has not the same effect than a natural growing plant.

    Nature knows why this plant has to be like this and not different.

    :


    Nature knows nothing. You are endowing an aggregate of systems with a conscious will. While I would be willing to engage you in a conversation about something like this being the case, EVEN IF she is what you are claiming she does not have magical powers to direct the evolution of each and every species upon her.

    Please learn more about the difference between GMO and selective breeding.

    Sorry...but you are wrong. We still don't know enough about nature...while we are going on destroying it.....insteed of learn from her......

    Listen to Sepp Holzer for example you can learn a lot about it.

    I am not willing to go through an argument about this.

    Nature is perfect.....humans are not.

    So much for this. Have a good day...
    Last edited by Whisper; 4th December 2019 at 06:30.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Whisper (here)
    ... about the subject marijuana as medications.

    It is nothing natural anymore. I dont know if people think about this. This is all manipulated plants by now....gmo or what ever ...
    Thanks for the chance to address this issue. As far as I know, there is no GMO cannabis for sale anywhere in the world. It's the exact opposite of what you are stating. I'm sure Bayer/Monsanto or Syngenta or another biotech corporation are trying to do so, but cannabis will not easily lend itself to being genetically "marked" like soybeans. I think the confusion comes in with the terminology used, "genetically modified." Before "transgeneic" genetic modification (GMO technology), farmers for the last 10,000 years were saving seeds from the plants they liked the best. Those were the genetics allowed to be replanted. The humans were selecting which genetics to replant. Plants naturally hybridize, and auto-hybridization has been happening to plants on Earth as long as there have been plants on Earth. For example, there was a new species of spruce tree "discovered" a few decades ago that is a natural cross between Sitka spruce (Picea sitchensis) and White spruce (Picea albes) [and a few scientists argue that there may also be some genetics from Engelmann spruce (Picea engelmannii) mixed in.] The new species is called Picea lutzii - guitarmakers call it "Lutz" for short. No humans messed with those tree genetics - a completely natural "cross" or "hybrid." Mother Nature doing her thing, surviving, adapting, evolving.

    Then you have all the agricultural species that were "messed with" (deliberately "crossed" or "hybridized" by humans), Luther Burbank style. Certainly "genetics" is involved, but not inserting genes from other species of organisms (which is "transgenics", or GMO.) Dog breeding is another good example of humans orchestrating hybridization, and that also is not producing GMO offspring.

    GMO involves transgenics, mixing of species. One example (that supposedly never actually made it to market) was a tomato that had genes from a fish inserted into it.
    This is The Island of Dr. Moreau gone bad. It boggles my mind to see this snippet, quoted from the transgenics page that I linked to:
    "Goats have also been genetically modified to produce spider silk,
    one of the strongest materials known to man, in their milk. Proposed uses for this
    recombinant spider silk range from artificial tendons to bulletproof vests."
    So, cannabis plants are not GMO, even though farmers ("breeders") have crossed various cannabis species together to create new varieties of cannabis. All of the (now thousands of) named varieties of cannabis are almost all hybrids (there are also some varieties that are considered to be examples of the remaining "land races", strictly Mother Nature's work.)

    If a farmer wants very tall cannabis plants with big, thick stalks, because the intent is to harvest the stalk fiber to make strong cloth, the farmer will select seeds with known genetics to produce those plant attributes. If a farmer/grower wants the highest THC cannabinoid content possible, along with attributes that make the medicine sedative, because the extracted oil will be given to a cancer patient, the farmer will select seeds with known genetics to produce those plant attributes. When you grow you own garden, and you peruse the seed catalogs to find the varieties of squash, and beans, and corn that you want to grow, will likely select from among hybrid seeds with known genetics to produce those plant attributes that you desire.

    Quote Posted by Whisper (here)
    ...
    Do the people really believe passive smoke harms non smokers?

    And then they park their car in front of the shopping mall and let it run until they come back from shopping....thinking this is ok?

    Some dried leaves and a little paper wont ever harm any non smoker like a running car does. ...
    ...
    Well, maybe the most honest thing to say is that smoke - whether it is a house fire or a forest fire or a cigarette or a joint - contains known carcinogens. It ain't healthy to breathe.

    In the case of cannabis (with THC) smoke, the US government paid for a study to "prove" that cannabis smoking causes lung cancer (right after the US govt paid for a study to prove cigarettes cause lung cancer) - but the study got paradoxical results: the MORE someone smoked cannabis, the LESS likely they were to get lung cancer.

    The amazing THC molecule is outrageously anti-cancer, with three known ways that the THC is anti-cancer - the most remarkable may be that THC turns apoptosis (normal cellular end-of-cell-life death) back on, in cancer cells. One of the attributes of a cell that makes it a cancer cell is that it has turned off apoptosis and has become "immortal." THC turns apoptosis back on, so the cancer cell can then die.

    The reason I mentioned all that is that I wonder if smoking cannabis high in CBD and extremely low in THC (less than the current US govt standard of <0.3%THC), a.k.a. "hemp" by the US govt definition, will cause lung cancer. Without the magical THC molecules, smoking near-zero THC cannabis smoke would contain the carcinogens but not the prime anti-cancer medicine.

    Cigarette smoke, even from pure, organically grown tobacco, contains carcinogens.
    Cannabis smoke, even from pure, organically grown cannabis, contains carcinogens.
    "Passive" smoking, that is, breathing in someone else's smoke, contains carcinogens.
    Breathing in the exhaust from a bus contains carcinogens too.
    I think the smart thing is to avoid smoke of any sort. Even though the smoke from cannabis with THC contains anti-cancer medicine too (that evidently counteracts the toxins from the smoke), it still is damaging to the lungs.


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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    I am against any manipulations of natural plants.....not only against GMO... maybe I did not make this clear enough..... Whatever is manipulated, which way ever...is not natural in my eyes anymore....


    news : Dec. 2-2019 Monsanto Creates First Genetically Modified Strain of Marijuana

    https://worldnewsdailyreport.com/mon...-of-marijuana/
    Last edited by Whisper; 5th December 2019 at 03:10.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    [QUOTE=Dennis Leahy;1326043]
    Quote Posted by Whisper (here)
    ... about the subject marijuana as medications.



    Cigarette smoke, even from pure, organically grown tobacco, contains carcinogens.
    Cannabis smoke, even from pure, organically grown cannabis, contains carcinogens.

    "Passive" smoking, that is, breathing in someone else's smoke, contains carcinogens.

    Breathing in the exhaust from a bus contains carcinogens too.

    I think the smart thing is to avoid smoke of any sort. Even though the smoke from cannabis with THC contains anti-cancer medicine too (that evidently counteracts the toxins from the smoke), it still is damaging to the lungs.
    you forgot to write up on the cars, the industrie, the chemtrails......how come?


    car smoke contains carcinogens.....aso....


    There is totaly no proof that cigarette smoke caused lung cancer to a non smoker so far. Never heard of someones pet which got lung cancer because someone smoked around it also.

    This is just what they use as progaganda back up. If a non smoker gets lung cancer, how do you want to get a proof on why`? There could be many reasons. And even not every smoker gets lung cancer. How do you want to explain this now? A cigarette is some dried leaves and a little paper around...nothing else.....

    And they make big money with all the taxes they put on it.....$$$$$$

    And by the way, smoke can have a healthy effect too in some cases.

    But maybe the churches should stop the Religious use of incense then if any smoke is so unhealthy to everybody? I do not think so.

    And everybody should make sure now...to park their car far enough away from every window and door now....and to stop burn any leaves in your yard....and avoid any Barbecues in the future.....

    This here I think is very interesting also - about tobacco and cannabis :

    https://www.sott.net/article/280406-The-long-forgotten-healing-properties-of-tobacco


    But like I said - I dont want to get to far into this subject around here.
    Last edited by Whisper; 4th December 2019 at 18:25.

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Quote Posted by Whisper (here)
    I am against any manipulations of natural plants.....not only against GMO... maybe I did not make this clear enough..... Whatever is manipulated, which way ever...is not natural in my eyes anymore....


    news : Dec. 2-2019

    https://worldnewsdailyreport.com/mon...-of-marijuana/
    So I am to take it you are against agricultural in general then?

    You statement is at odds with agrarian ways of life. One can not farm and have zero impact on the plants they are growing.


    Do you consider the Hoover Dam natural?
    Do you consider a beaver dam natural?

    What is natural and what is unnatural?

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    Default Re: Marijuana - a most complicated matter

    Sooner or later the rubber must meet the road:

    Can we just spark one up already?

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