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Thread: How Scientology auditing works

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    Please let me know if my imagination needs correction:

    An analog center zero meter is observed by the auditor.
    A response from the client is observed on the meter.
    The meter swings left or right and may have other dynamic movement that may be diagnostically significant.
    The meter returns to center after how much time?
    Yes. But here's one important way that the needle movement gives the auditor information.

    If the needle moves from its stable 'neutral' center to the right, it indicates 'available', 'accessible' charge that the client will know about, because they have a degree of interest, attention, or maybe upset about the issue.

    That means that it's open to be audited using the right/best processes.

    If the needle moves from the center to the left, it means that the item is definitely present, but the client can't confront (face up to) it, and/or isn't actually consciously aware of it.

    An example might be a childhood trauma, even some form of abuse. The needle moving to the left would tell the auditor that the issue is there, but the client might well have totally buried it. It's not 'accessible'. So the auditor says nothing, but just makes a detailed note for later.

    After that, the auditor must wait until the needle moves to the right in response to the same questions — very likely after some auditing has been done on other issues — and then they'll know that the item can at last be addressed in auditing.

    Re your last question, the needle 'resets' after maybe a second or two. It's very fast.

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Yes. But here's one important way that the needle movement gives the auditor information.

    That means that it's open to be audited using the right/best processes.


    Is there a simple answer for how the auditor helps by working through "the right/best processes."

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Yes. But here's one important way that the needle movement gives the auditor information.

    That means that it's open to be audited using the right/best processes.
    Is there a simple answer for how the auditor helps by working through "the right/best processes."
    Many (but not all) processes consist of a 'repetitive' question. This can also sometimes be an alternating pair of questions (or even 3 or 4, cycling through them all continually), and they can be formatted (worded) in all kinds of ways.

    The steady and gradual action of the repetition, to reveal and release the charge, is one part of how clever this is. The other aspect is the exact formulation of the question or questions, which is important.

    Like a kind of workshop tool, it very gradually 'cuts' deeper and deeper, making slightly more 'inroads' each time.

    I'll make up a nonsense example.
    Auditor: Okay, we'll start this process now. Did you ever eat an apple that tasted like a hamburger?
    Client: Gosh. That rings a bell.
    Auditor: Thanks. Did you ever eat an apple that tasted like a hamburger?
    Client: You know, I think I did, when I was a teenager. A friend played a trick on me. I remember now.
    Auditor: Thank you, I've got that. Did you ever eat an apple that tasted like a hamburger?
    Client: Yes, I did, and it was horrible. Ugh! I can kind of taste it now.
    Auditor: Thank you, I understand. Did you ever eat an apple that tasted like a hamburger?
    Client: You know, that friend ended up in prison. Now I know why! He always was a nasty jerk. I never did trust him. He was always doing bad things to people. And he always laughed, every time. Now it all makes sense. He got what he deserved in the end. And now I know, after all these years, why I always hated apples. Wow, I feel a LOT better about all this!
    Auditor: Thank you! Your needle is floating.
    [That's a specific meter needle indication, showing there's been a release of charge. See below.]

    That would be the end of that process, though they usually go on for a little longer than that, possibly even half an hour or an hour, or even longer.

    The end of the process is demarcated by three things. And this always always happens. Literally every time, with any well-formulated repetitive question.
    1. The client having a sense of suddenly feeling much better and/or clearer.
    2. A new thought or realization about whatever happened. (This is called a 'cognition'.)
    3. A 'floating needle' on the meter. That means that the needle is idly and smoothly swinging slowly from side to side, not settling in any one place.
      (A 'floating needle' can sometimes last for quite a long time, and it's an indication or verification that some charge has been released and the client is suddenly feeling pretty happy. In one or two special cases, a floating needle like that has keen known to persist continuously for several months, though usually it might last for anything between a few minutes to possibly an hour or two.)
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 16th November 2019 at 18:58.

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by nsb (here)
    Edit: I'll put the site in another post as it begs another question as to what the site claims the RONS Org are doing concerning reads.
    http://blog.scientology-1972.org/201...uickie%20again the link "The grades are made quicky again", scrolls the page down to the section where I pulled a statement, "This grade chart from 1970 lists all processes by name for every grade and LRH demands: “All Processes of the Level and no less.” on the 1970 version of the bridge. On that page it said In the Ron’s Org, apparently all processes are audited, no matter whether it’s with read or without, which prompted the original question I had, but now reading that statement again makes me ask a slightly different question.

    Are the RON's Orgs running processes without reads on the meter as the site claims? What comes to mind is that all flows if there are flows being run on a process on the grades, all 3 or 4 are run to complete the process, even if there is no verifiable read on the meter on a or more flows. Am I misinterpreting what is being said that the RONS Orgs are doing concerning processing?

    http://blog.scientology-1972.org/201...-lrh-approved/ On the right side of the bridge by ARC-Straight Wire release, Dianetic case completion, and grades 0-IV under SUBJECT AUDITED, is where ALL PROCESSES OF THE LEVEL AND NO LESS reference is found.

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by nsb (here)
    Are the RON's Orgs running processes without reads on the meter as the site claims? What comes to mind is that all flows if there are flows being run on a process on the grades, all 3 or 4 are run to complete the process, even if there is no verifiable read on the meter on a or more flows. Am I misinterpreting what is being said that the RONS Orgs are doing concerning processing?
    I don't know if you're misinterpreting anything or not! But 100% for sure, in Ron's Org no process would ever be run if there was no charge on the wording or the question.

    Why would any process be run if there was no charge on the item? That would be any of an invalidation, an evaluation, or an enforcement, and very probably all three.

    The real-world everyday analogy would be just a little tiny bit like being wrongly accused of doing something one hadn't done at all. Nothing would come of that except upset and protest, and the creation of charge that was never there in the first place.

    If one thinks about this all logically, from a handful of very basic principles, it's not too hard to figure it all out. One of the problems in the 'Church' was auditors doing what they were told (or even ordered) to do without having the responsibility (or even the training) to question it all for themselves. This is exactly how so much harm was done to so many people.

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    http://scientolipedia.org/info/Readi...ting_Questions

    This has cleared up my confusion concerning the use of the meter on the bridge. Note for those who are unfamiliar with the terms (I am quite unfamiliar with many of the e-meter manifestations as I have not been trained) the info is technical.

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    There are whole courses that teach how to use and operate an emeter. The drills developed get you very acquainted with the different manifestations of the needle and meter.

    It is first recommended to get your communication training routines in (TR's) it helps in auditing and getting and recognizing when reads occur.

    A well trained auditor usually gets more reads and the auditing goes easier when his Tr's are in.

    These are called the basics, it is a bit like having gas in the car before you start the motor.

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by nsb (here)
    http://scientolipedia.org/info/Readi...ting_Questions

    This has cleared up my confusion concerning the use of the meter on the bridge. Note for those who are unfamiliar with the terms (I am quite unfamiliar with many of the e-meter manifestations as I have not been trained) the info is technical.
    Thanks! And yes, that's very detailed and technical indeed. Basically, in that article highly trained auditors are talking to other highly trained auditors. Anyone who's totally new to all this who tries to make sense of it all might well get quite a headache. (A real one, and that's not a joke!)

    Quote Posted by James Newell (here)
    There are whole courses that teach how to use and operate an emeter.
    Yes, it's no small thing. All I've been trying to do in this thread is present a few of the the most basic principles, in simple language, to try to offer an idea of how an auditing session works, and how the meter can be very helpful in that.

    The real takeaway from that dense article is that the communication between the auditor and client is the most important ('senior') factor that makes it all work. The meter merely supports that. In many cases, it's not even strictly necessary.

    Here's an example, this time not a nonsense one. Maybe quite a real instance!

    The client comes to the auditor for the session, and they're a little upset (or maybe, very upset) — because their neighbor was a jerk and broke their lawnmower, or they lost a $100 bill somewhere on the street, or maybe they even got fired from their job last week.

    Or anything at all like that that could happens to any of us. But sometimes, if the issue is more serious and majorly impactful (like a bereavement, a trauma, or some other really bad news), the 'charge' can persist for a long time and really does need addressing to help 'release' it.

    So the upset client immediately tells the auditor what's happened, and what their interest and attention is on. It's obvious. There's no need to consult the meter to check anything! The client knows exactly what's wrong, and has already laid it all out.

    As the article says, the meter can be useful to verify when the process is complete (if that's not totally certain for any reason), and like any other kind of 'detector', it can be very useful in hunting down emotional charge that's been suppressed or is somehow NOT in plain view. For instance, if the client is upset but is not sure exactly why. The meter can be extremely useful then.

    But as a rule of thumb, the meter is always 'junior' to the personal two-way communication between the auditor and the client. And it's definitely do-able to run sessions without a meter at all.

    To offer a real-world instance of that, I'm currently auditing a friend on a variety of issues, over the internet, and there's no meter involved whatsoever. What really helps there is that my friend has done some auditing before, and is very bright and aware, so they know what's involved and they understand exactly how it all works.

    That enables us to be a very efficient, co-operating team. And in several dozen hours of auditing so far, it's all gone smoothly and perfectly. We've successfully handled a number of issues, some of which had been around for quite a while. And that's with no meter involved at all.

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    I agree when it comes to general auditing what Bill says, it's laid out quite clearly in the books and what not and does make absolute sense.

    My original question had to do with the grade chart, specifically grades 0-IV(which have different actions), which is being answered elsewhere.

    Due to the technical nature of discussing the grades, perhaps that should have been dealt with via private messaging!

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Forgive me if this has been answered. Once a charge is located, how exactly is it removed/resolved?

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by 4evrneo (here)
    Forgive me if this has been answered. Once a charge is located, how exactly is it removed/resolved?
    Thanks for the question! It's a little hard to explain if one's not actually experienced this. But in various forms, the commonality of what happens is this.

    An incident (an event which is 'charged', like an accident that happened a while back), or maybe a topic (like 'dogs', if one had a fear of dogs), or even a period of time in one's life (like "when I was living in Mongolia"), are all examined closely from every angle. It's questions in the process or processes which have that function of doing the detailed examining.

    The analogy is like trying to figure out what's happening in a dark corner of the attic, or maybe under the bed, where one can't see it very well. It's hard to see what's going on, or figure it out.

    So the analogy of what the processes do is cast a very bright light on that area. The result is that one can see it really clearly, much more clearly than one could before. That might not happen immediately, because one might have to move the flashlight around a little to see what's happening from a variety of angles or perspectives.

    But what always happens, 100% every time, is that after a little while what wasn't clear before becomes totally clear. The result is a new understanding.

    It's like "Ah, so that's what actually happened!" or "Gee, now I see what I did that actually caused that to occur!" Or maybe even something like "All these years I'd been blaming myself. Now I see that it was never my fault at all!"

    As the adage says, it's the truth that sets one free. But first, one has to discover what the truth is. It might be something from a while back that's forgotten or unknown or repressed, or it may have been some "untruth" that one convinced oneself, or was convinced by someone else, to believe.

    An example might be living with a narcissistic sociopath who always convinced you that everything was your fault, when it was never your fault at all.

    Or a teacher that convinced you you were stupid, when you were the brightest kid in the room but were just bored with school all the time. (These "untruths" we can "buy" about ourselves can often do a lot of damage, and there's usually a LOT of "charge" connected with all that.)

    When that new thought, or new understanding, or new realization, or new truth, suddenly happens, it's like a kind of 'lightbulb moment'. That's when the charge suddenly lifts and goes.

    In scientology, that's often colloquially called a 'release'. It's a good word, because it's like suddenly this thing isn't 'gripping' you any more. But in 'technical' terms, there's a difference between a 'release' and an 'erasure', though they both feel exactly the same.

    A technical release is when the unwanted charge 'moves away' and just feels like it isn't there any more. That's a good thing, of course! But in theory, it could come back sometime, if it's triggered again by something in life, even though a release may be stable for 10,000 lifetimes.

    However, if there's been an erasure (meaning, the charge is completely erased or deleted), it can't come back. Ever, in a zillion years. It's just gone forever.

    Here's an example of a release of charge, to illustrate the difference. You lend your neighbor your lawnmower, and he breaks it, and then refuses to pay or make amends, or even apologize, because he blames you and he's a jerk and he's lying. That could be upsetting. (Of course, for anyone!)

    So there are processes that can be run that will release that charge. It doesn't fix the lawnmower, but you feel a lot better about it. It's like, you put that incident behind you and don't lose any more sleep over your jerk of a neighbor. It's HIS problem that he's a jerk. Not yours. He has to live with that, every day. You don't! (Etc. )

    So that charge is all released. But if 10 years later, you're now in a different city, and you lend your lawnmower (or your car, or your blender, or your phone) to a different neighbor, and then THEY break that — the charge may come back. (And, that upset can be handled again. But it may also simply be released again.)

    Of course, people often have "Aha!" moments about things without any scientology auditing! And this can happen in regular counseling as well. Or just talking to a friend who's a good listener! But what will happen in scientology auditing is that, when it's properly done, it will ALWAYS ALWAYS release the charge. It only ever fails to do that when it's not properly applied for some reason.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 18th November 2019 at 16:40.

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    However, if there's been an erasure (meaning, the charge is completely erased or deleted), it can't come back. Ever, in a zillion years. It's just gone forever.
    It sounds similar to what EMDR can accomplish by completely erasing an incident. Do you know what difference if any there is between the two?

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by 4evrneo (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    However, if there's been an erasure (meaning, the charge is completely erased or deleted), it can't come back. Ever, in a zillion years. It's just gone forever.
    It sounds similar to what EMDR can accomplish by completely erasing an incident. Do you know what difference if any there is between the two?
    Sorry! I'm really not familiar with EMDR. (Their website is here.) I'd welcome any other answers to the question.

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Hi Bill,

    When I was 22 I was in LA and someone on the street was sitting there with such a meter and invited me to do a test, just for ‘fun’. I didn’t know he was from Scientology so I just thought “why not”, so I got audited. I was surprised he seemed to see exactly when I was thinking about a childhood pain and was quite impressed. He said, yes, go back to what you wre just thinking about, so I tried him and said “I don’t know what you mean.” Everytime my mind only wandered a bit to that part he said, “now you’re thinking about it again, and again, yes now too.” I wanted to deny it but it really seemed to pick up my very subtle discomfort connected to the subject. As I was sitting there I realised this was Scientology and when he offered me to go further with the process I respectfully declined. The look on this man’s face was scary when he saw I really didn’t want to go further. If looks could kill, I would be so dead... Scientology has always given me the creeps so that’s why I want to ask you the following, since I do have respect for your work with Camelot and Avalon:

    I remember reading a statement from you years ago about Scientology that you were involved with it, but not with the main organisation. Is that correct? I would like to know your views about the orginisation since the subject always intrigued me. I have seen the documentaries on how people who get out are treated and it ain’t pretty.. I do find the auditing part intrigueing though, that’s why I am interested to read all this on this topic.

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Quote Posted by BoR (here)
    Hi Bill,

    When I was 22 I was in LA and someone on the street was sitting there with such a meter and invited me to do a test, just for ‘fun’. I didn’t know he was from Scientology so I just thought “why not”, so I got audited. I was surprised he seemed to see exactly when I was thinking about a childhood pain and was quite impressed. He said, yes, go back to what you wre just thinking about, so I tried him and said “I don’t know what you mean.” Everytime my mind only wandered a bit to that part he said, “now you’re thinking about it again, and again, yes now too.” I wanted to deny it but it really seemed to pick up my very subtle discomfort connected to the subject. As I was sitting there I realised this was Scientology and when he offered me to go further with the process I respectfully declined. The look on this man’s face was scary when he saw I really didn’t want to go further. If looks could kill, I would be so dead... Scientology has always given me the creeps so that’s why I want to ask you the following, since I do have respect for your work with Camelot and Avalon:

    I remember reading a statement from you years ago about Scientology that you were involved with it, but not with the main organisation. Is that correct? I would like to know your views about the orginisation since the subject always intrigued me. I have seen the documentaries on how people who get out are treated and it ain’t pretty.. I do find the auditing part intrigueing though, that’s why I am interested to read all this on this topic.
    Thanks for the story! Yes, what was happening there was that the E-meter the guy was using was very accurately picking up the charge on the childhood pain. It really is super-sensitive. And clearly, he knew how to use it.

    But (if you read my long post #31 above), it's not only one's lawnmower-breaking neighbor that can be a jerk. Scientology auditors can be jerks, too.

    There's no insurance against that, except (in my strong recommendation) to not go anywhere near the Church of Scientology, where jerks (or worse!) proliferate. They are very often truly controlling and manipulative, and what you encountered was an example of that.

    Embarking on anything at all with the Church of Scientology could cost you your friends, your family, your life savings, and even your sanity. I don't exaggerate. There are some good individuals in there (a few!), usually very caught up in it and finding it near-impossible to escape. But as an organization, they're truly dangerous.

    It's all hard for many to understand, because auditing really does work — and sometimes dramatically and miraculously, where nothing else could. But it has to be in the right ethical and well-trained hands. A scientology auditor who's a jerk (or worse) can also do you a LOT of very serious harm.

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    Default Re: How Scientology auditing works

    Thanks Bill for the clarification.

    This was indeed obviously someone from the Church, as he pointed out his church was 'over there', pointing across the street where indeed a Scientology Church was located, which I hadn't seen before he pointed it out.

    It's too bad something that actually works has gotten such a bad name because of some people who made a cult out of it and have gone too far exploiting it and trying to brainwash people.

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