Are some UFO visitors us from the future?

[araucaria]

Let me gather a few thoughts, based on a recent rereading of Arthur C. Clarke’s Songs of Distant Earth (1985). This is proper science-fiction i.e. no woo-woo involved, based on hard science, which includes interstellar propulsion using a « quantum drive », namely vacuum energy (or ‘free energy’) as theorized starting in 1969 according to the acknowledgements.


Clarke’s novel takes some new arrivals from Earth to a planet already seeded by earthlings. They are younger because they are the last group to leave the Earth prior to its destruction and indeed the destruction of the entire solar system, but they are more evolved because this particular planet has very little landmass and hence still a tiny population much smaller than the huge incoming spacecraft, crammed with as many survivors as possible. Everything passes off peacefully because the planet is too small for them. It is literally just a watering-hole where they can rebuild the ice shield on the front of their craft which has been depleted by interstellar dust.


The time factor comes into play in other ways too. Since the technology only allows travel at (decent) fractions of lightspeed, then enhancements over a few centuries will mean that over distances of tens of light years, earth generations are going to overtake each other and reach out further. To understand, consider a 19th century traveller in a horse-drawn carriage being confronted by someone left behind but who travels by train – and given the difference in speed, they could be arriving from the opposite direction. In Clarke’s novel, the hero leaves behind an unborn child, but by the time he has journeyed on and wakes up from cryogenic sleep, he will discover his son’s entire life and death, centuries in the past. Were he to return to his son’s planet, he could claim to be from its future, but he is also demonstrably from its past. In other words, time travel for dummies.


The above involves no technological principles we do not already know about, and requires no esoteric knowledge of any kind. The cryogenic stuff is something some people are working on, and might follow the same general principle as other things we are familiar with: some electric flashlights, you turn a handle for a minute or two in order mechanically to generate half an hour’s light some time in the future. It is also the basis of our entire current civilization, whereby one has granary stores, canned food or deep-freezes with which to provide summer food in winter.


Given all this, to what extent might this fiction actually match our current reality? Over such cosmic distances and timescales which are staples of modern science, you can fully understand the notion of J-Rods or whoever being 27 or 52k years in our future and still turning up on our doorsteps today. This might be taken to mean that they left earth that long ago and that everything they have accomplished since then is still today in our future. In other words, they would be from any one of our since collapsed civilizations ago. In a world of cycles like ours, instead of parallel timelines, a better, more readily understandable notion could be successive timelines. Knowledge of the future amounting to experience of the past.


However, all this is the entire galactic neighbourhood working on Greenwich Mean Time. Were a civilization to have a superior understanding of time it would put the whole picture in a different light. I am not saying such a civilization does or does not exist – there are doubtless other ways of talking about our own future. Yet the current state of our evolution says that this is how it works on our animal level, which can be transposed to interstellar travel at subluminal speeds, and that is all there is to it. Or, given a greater understanding or evolution, time itself becomes open to similar technological applications. This might include reincarnation for example.


So my overall point would be to say that we can do a whole lot more with what we know already without recourse to any of the more ‘outlandish’ theories. Let’s have a shave with Occam’s razor. Given the above scenario, what would J-Rod be up to? Well, the usual things make sense: radiation from atom bombs would start damaging the rest of our solar system in a matter of minutes or hours, and the stars in a few years or decades. First responders arriving in 1947 makes sense. It is a bit slow for people who have fully mastered time: they mightn’t have let it happen in the first place ; but following Clarke’s scenario, it is about right. In the ensuing seventy years we have survived on the brink of nuclear warfare, sometimes miraculously: a hidden hand may well be at work.


The other area of concern that immediately springs to mind is free energy. Here you have one very good reason for its shutdown, which also ties in with other things such as the aborted manned space program or the continued over-reliance on fossil fuels. The current earth civilization is under police escort or house arrest, being unfit to travel to the stars pending rehabilitation of some kind.


Of course none of this is new; that is my point. However, it is drowned in layers of disinformation and misunderstanding which could just be the early stages of careful ‘disclosure’ mixed with the later stages of memory known as myth. Such things include tales of now vanished civilizations ‘ascending’ (maybe they did) and others collapsing (maybe they didn’t). Where are we now? On the borderline. Why? Because of such things as capitalism, namely the accumulation of wealth by individuals as an aberrant form of the collective storage of supplies in order to survive ‘winter’. How are we doing? It depends: there is talk of some kind of selection process going on. But there is also something perverse going on. For example, over-reliance on fossil fuels is one aspect of the survival of capitalism; it is a solution leading to disaster on one planet, not safety and freedom in a wider universe. How do you learn freedom on a prison planet? Prisons are where many criminals perfect their art and recruit their cronies.

[Bill Ryan]

Bumping this thread my cooyihg a new post by Helvetic. It also belongs here because in this detailed account of his abduction experienced recounted to Redacted's Clayton Morris, abductee Aaron Schultz ‚— who was a child at the time — was told specifically by the ETs that they were humans from the future. That revelation emerges at 19:50 in the video.

Posted by Helvetic (here)
“I was taken on board an ALIEN spacecraft and what they told me SHOCKED ME to my core” | Redacted | Mar. 25, 2024

Source: Redacted youtube

Our next guest took many years to come forward and talk about what he's about to talk about on our show. Aaron Schultz says he was abducted by non-human creatures multiple times over the course a few years when he was a child.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=1nhFyehT0W0

From the YT transcript: (slightly edited for easier reading)

~~~

I finally managed to get the question out of my mouth: Are you guys aliens?

And my voice was shaking, and I remember being embarrassed because I said it much louder than I had meant to because I was like in such a fury like to work myself up to like finally ask a question.

And he said: I'm sure that's what we seem. Well, he paused for a second and just looked at me and he blinked, which I don't know how to explain why it was so weird that he blinked. I had never seen any of them blink.

He blinked to me, and then he said: I'm sure that's what we see seem like to you. We we are from your future. You Earth humans are our ancient ancestors.

And I said like, Well why are you visiting us? Why are you here?

He said: Many of us came for different reasons. My colleagues and I (and he sort of motioned with his hand to the the other ones who had followed us into the room) are here to study human biology at such a point in time before you begin integrating technology into your bodies.

He said: Others on the craft are here to study human systems of governance here, to study some of the other creatures that reside here on Earth.

[ ... ]

I asked: Are there any others visiting us? He said: There are many beings from many worlds who are coming to visit, some local to your time, others not.

[Ewan]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
I asked: Are there any others visiting us? He said: There are many beings from many worlds who are coming to visit, some local to your time, others not.

Something big is coming in the next ?decade? or so. Years back I read an account stating alien observers were stacked above us like a busy modern airport, even occupying different dimensions.
I'm pretty sure humans really aren't that interesting, but a once in 12,000 years event probably would be.

Interesting comment about the 'before you begin integrating tech into your bodies'. If we can believe some of the vaccine info that event may have just passed.

[gord]

This fits this thread:

Alan Butler who co-authored Civilization One and Who Built the Moon? with Christopher Knight, later wrote Intervention: How Humanity from the Future Has Changed Its Own Past.

I have a hard copy, and read it a long time ago, but all I really remember was that it was very interesting, so here's a blurb about it lifted from one of the sites where you can find an online copy.

Alan Butler provides scientific evidence for time travel not only being real, but having already happened. Many key events in the history of humankind show evidence of having been intended by human beings from the future, who took specific actions that would steer the world in a particular direction. This 'intervention' theory is based on sound mathematical and scientific arguments, consistent with Einstein's demonstration of the possibility of time travel. Time travellers - some of them anonymous, some celebrated in history - have made alterations to our planetary and global environment (the creation of the Moon, the extinction of the dinosaurs) that were necessary to allow us to exist and to develop as an intelligent species. They have also left us markers that show what steps we need to take to progress further. All these interventions were placed retroactively within the 'timeline' for future generations, not for those immediately affected. Key interventions include: The creation of the Moon If the Moon did not exist, nor would we. The author demonstrates that the Moon was built to make it possible for the Earth to become an incubator of life.

The metal revolution The development of humanity's mastery over metal is a mystery, since the required temperatures for smelting metal exceeded anything that Neolithic man would have needed for any purpose. So how and why did smelting start? Add to that the fact that the first usable metal, bronze, is an alloy of copper and the much rarer tin and we begin to see the scale of the puzzle. Intervention supplies a convincing answer. The megalithic yard Neolithic peoples created a sophisticated, fully integrated system of measurements based on the actual size and mass of the Earth - a 'marker' for future scientific developments, surfacing again, apparently out of the blue, in 18th-century Washington, DC. But the most spectacular revelation lies in our future. By looking at the mathematics underlying many of the inventions, we discover, with unexpected precision, when our first contact with our future selves will happen. This will occur within the lifetime of most readers of this extraordinary book.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by gord (here)
This fits this thread:

Alan Butler who co-authored Civilization One and Who Built the Moon? with Christopher Knight, later wrote Intervention: How Humanity from the Future Has Changed Its Own Past.

I have a hard copy, and read it a long time ago, but all I really remember was that it was very interesting, so here's a blurb about it lifted from one of the sites where you can find an online copy.

Many thanks — now in the Avalon Library:

https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Ala...t%20(2012).pdf

[Open Minded Dude]

Posted by gord (here)
This fits this thread:

Alan Butler who co-authored Civilization One and Who Built the Moon? with Christopher Knight, later wrote Intervention: How Humanity from the Future Has Changed Its Own Past.

I have a hard copy, and read it a long time ago, but all I really remember was that it was very interesting, so here's a blurb about it lifted from one of the sites where you can find an online copy.

Alan Butler provides scientific evidence for time travel not only being real, but having already happened. Many key events in the history of humankind show evidence of having been intended by human beings from the future, who took specific actions that would steer the world in a particular direction. This 'intervention' theory is based on sound mathematical and scientific arguments, consistent with Einstein's demonstration of the possibility of time travel. Time travellers - some of them anonymous, some celebrated in history - have made alterations to our planetary and global environment (the creation of the Moon, the extinction of the dinosaurs) that were necessary to allow us to exist and to develop as an intelligent species. They have also left us markers that show what steps we need to take to progress further. All these interventions were placed retroactively within the 'timeline' for future generations, not for those immediately affected. Key interventions include: The creation of the Moon If the Moon did not exist, nor would we. The author demonstrates that the Moon was built to make it possible for the Earth to become an incubator of life.

The metal revolution The development of humanity's mastery over metal is a mystery, since the required temperatures for smelting metal exceeded anything that Neolithic man would have needed for any purpose. So how and why did smelting start? Add to that the fact that the first usable metal, bronze, is an alloy of copper and the much rarer tin and we begin to see the scale of the puzzle. Intervention supplies a convincing answer. The megalithic yard Neolithic peoples created a sophisticated, fully integrated system of measurements based on the actual size and mass of the Earth - a 'marker' for future scientific developments, surfacing again, apparently out of the blue, in 18th-century Washington, DC. But the most spectacular revelation lies in our future. By looking at the mathematics underlying many of the inventions, we discover, with unexpected precision, when our first contact with our future selves will happen. This will occur within the lifetime of most readers of this extraordinary book.

I still don't see why this has to be beings or humans from the future. Introduction of technology and/or steering the 'evolution' (e.g. by making dinosaurs extinct or doing genetic manipulations to the population) does not need time travellers since superiour tech might have been used or introduced by 'contemporary' ETs / Aliens all the time since the beginning of Earth actually.

[Vicus]

NO future (punk mantra)

I just commented many times specially about movies that I watched all of them and some TV shows in "pirates" sender...
At that time was no "woke" crap and you find all classics plus rare new gems... today is over and everywhere is full of crap!

More than 5 years ago I found a movie called 10.000.000 BC or 100.000.000 BC about time travel for tourist wealthy people.

PLOT: one of the travelers return with a dead butterfly under his boots, they already were in dinosaurs time...
And then sh1t happens! like the butterfly effect in reverse... the environment began to decay in time... back to Dino time!
Vegetation, animals, people are fast degrading until all the big city is invaded from archaic vegetation and animals, not big Dinos yet but all the rest...(and the quality of all was optimal)
All this plot suggest some possible "real" problems and dangers from time travel ...

Stranger things

I watched this movie 2-3 times and two months ago I searched again and ... there is NO traces now from this movie! not even in Wikipedia!
All you found about that title is some special forces lost in Dino time and they come back whit a BiG T-rex.
Search references go only to this movie plot! non to the other...

My BIG question is WHY?

A) some copyright troubles with the plot/production/whatever money/ideas copy/stolen?
B) here we enter the WOO...too close to---- insert your favorite conspirator...

If someone here find this movie I don't have any problems to assume my search incompetency...

From Bill:
It's called A Sound of Thunder (2005), and was truly terribly made with extremely poor CGI. But the short Sci-Fi story (of the same name, on which the film was based), by Ray Bradbury, is a well-known, beautifully written classic.

[Ratszinger]

I really think whatever the aliens have been up to they've been doing for a lot longer than we even know. I've read and heard so much and none of it mentions things like what happens to a biological animal outside of their own natural birth environment. Some animals we study we grab in their environment and pull them up to ours to examine them. Many of them die from the shock of leaving their natural environment. We don't hear about whether when they examine some that are missiing if maybe that is what happened to them and why they are missing. Maybe the shear shock of it all killed them?

It's for this reason I have become convinced that all biological life, no matter where in the universe it is including us, are stuck in their own natural birth system. Therefore whatever the 'aliens' are they are from here just like us and have lived beside of us apparently creating or mutating at least a portion of the biology through manipulation on the surface. For all we really know it is these same ones, these so called aliens behind that current genetic modification program called "Vaccine Therapy" when in fact it was gene editing. Even the Sumerians spoke of them doing experiments on them and the mutants they created so this is not new.

It is humbling to discover though, that we are nothing more or less than lab rats to these 'aliens' and at least the handful of puppets they manipulate that we call our health officials and leaders. It appears more and more when you put all the pieces together that the proverbial, "Hidden Hand" is the little bony hands of these little guys!!

[Vicus]

I'm watching right now " A Sound of Thunder"

Still the question with the name, because I searched and found the movie another 2 times under the other tittle...

Or in worst scenario I'm developing Alzheimer malady....

About quality, well it is a 20 years old movie... still better for me that any woke crap today!

[leavesoftrees]

I was just thinking of Alan Butler the other day, and will put this on my to read list. In Who built the moon, he suggests that present humans need to get cracking if we are going to develop time travel technology to go back in time to build the moon. Maybe there might be future interventions from future humans to give us a guiding hand

Posted by gord (here)
This fits this thread:

Alan Butler who co-authored Civilization One and Who Built the Moon? with Christopher Knight, later wrote Intervention: How Humanity from the Future Has Changed Its Own Past.

I have a hard copy, and read it a long time ago, but all I really remember was that it was very interesting, so here's a blurb about it lifted from one of the sites where you can find an online copy.

Alan Butler provides scientific evidence for time travel not only being real, but having already happened. Many key events in the history of humankind show evidence of having been intended by human beings from the future, who took specific actions that would steer the world in a particular direction. This 'intervention' theory is based on sound mathematical and scientific arguments, consistent with Einstein's demonstration of the possibility of time travel. Time travellers - some of them anonymous, some celebrated in history - have made alterations to our planetary and global environment (the creation of the Moon, the extinction of the dinosaurs) that were necessary to allow us to exist and to develop as an intelligent species. They have also left us markers that show what steps we need to take to progress further. All these interventions were placed retroactively within the 'timeline' for future generations, not for those immediately affected. Key interventions include: The creation of the Moon If the Moon did not exist, nor would we. The author demonstrates that the Moon was built to make it possible for the Earth to become an incubator of life.

The metal revolution The development of humanity's mastery over metal is a mystery, since the required temperatures for smelting metal exceeded anything that Neolithic man would have needed for any purpose. So how and why did smelting start? Add to that the fact that the first usable metal, bronze, is an alloy of copper and the much rarer tin and we begin to see the scale of the puzzle. Intervention supplies a convincing answer. The megalithic yard Neolithic peoples created a sophisticated, fully integrated system of measurements based on the actual size and mass of the Earth - a 'marker' for future scientific developments, surfacing again, apparently out of the blue, in 18th-century Washington, DC. But the most spectacular revelation lies in our future. By looking at the mathematics underlying many of the inventions, we discover, with unexpected precision, when our first contact with our future selves will happen. This will occur within the lifetime of most readers of this extraordinary book.