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Thread: "If" - by Rudyard Kipling (sound familiar?)

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    United States Avalon Member Arcturian108's Avatar
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    Default "If" - by Rudyard Kipling (sound familiar?)

    If—
    By Rudyard Kipling


    If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
    Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

    If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
    If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;
    If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
    And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

    If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
    And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;
    If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
    And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

    If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
    If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
    Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
    And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

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    UK Avalon Member Clear Light's Avatar
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    Default Re: "If" - by Rudyard Kipling (sound familiar?)

    Oh, and similarly, I'd say, there's this eh ?

    Quote Build your life brick upon brick.
    Live a life of truth, [1]
    And you will look back on a life of truth. [2]
    Live a life of fantasy, [3]
    And you will look back on delusion. [4]

    Deng Ming-Dao
    [1] But for the sake of making the context clear : "Truth" as I now term it, you could say, is that which is in accord with Reality (as per the Dharma) !

    [2] As one's Consciousness is clear and without Blemish !

    [3] i.e. Fiction

    [4] Because of all the internal contradictions eh ?


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    UK Avalon Member Clear Light's Avatar
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    Default Re: "If" - by Rudyard Kipling (sound familiar?)

    Quote Posted by Clear Light (here)
    Oh, and similarly, I'd say, there's this eh ?

    Quote Build your life brick upon brick.
    Live a life of truth, [1]
    And you will look back on a life of truth. [2]
    Live a life of fantasy, [3]
    And you will look back on delusion. [4]

    Deng Ming-Dao
    [1] But for the sake of making the context clear : "Truth" as I now term it, you could say, is that which is in accord with Reality (as per the Dharma) !

    [2] As one's Consciousness is clear and without Blemish !

    [3] i.e. Fiction

    [4] Because of all the internal contradictions eh ?

    Ah, not that I'm claiming that it's only Buddhists who travel the "one true path" to the exclusion of all other Spiritual Traditions ... inasmuch as surely there are many paths up the mountain eh ?

    For example, here's a very Christian oriented path : Abandonment to Divine Providence (by Jean-Pierre de Caussade)

    Quote It is the simple gospel message that Jesus lived each and every moment of His life. "My meat is to do the will of my Father in heaven." De Caussade has a way of saying the same basic truth in so many ways but it never seems to tire the reader. When the reader is open, De Caussade's words touch the heart urge the person to take the words of Jesus to the young man...."give up everything and follow me." It is the decision that doesn't bring instant transformation; it gives the direction for the journey and the words to pray each moment. "All is your's Lord. I want what you want in all things." Recommended for anyone who has felt a growing desire to make the self offering to the Lord.
    Quote Caussade is remembered for, among other things, his belief that the present moment is a sacrament from God and that self-abandonment to it and its needs is a holy state - a belief which, at first glance, would appear to be heretical relative to Catholic dogma. In fact, because of this fear (especially with the Church's condemnation of the Quietist movement), Caussade's instructions to the sisters were kept unpublished until 1861, and even then they were edited (by fellow Jesuit Henri Ramière) to protect them from charges of Quietism. A more authoritative version of these notes was published only in 1966. It is clear in his writings that he is aware of the Quietists and that he rejects their perspective. Writers such as Alan Watts have found in Caussade an Occidental, Christian-theological analogue to the Eastern religion of Mahayana Buddhism, particularly Zen Buddhism.

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    Default Re: "If" - by Rudyard Kipling (sound familiar?)

    Quote Posted by Arcturian108 (here)
    If—
    By Rudyard Kipling


    If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
    Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

    If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
    If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;
    If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
    And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

    If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
    And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;
    If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
    And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

    If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
    If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
    Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
    And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
    Not even Jesus Christ himself could live like what is told here. I like the wise lessons in it but dont like the ending.

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    Default Re: "If" - by Rudyard Kipling (sound familiar?)

    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by Arcturian108 (here)
    If—
    By Rudyard Kipling


    If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
    Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

    If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
    If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;
    If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
    And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

    If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
    And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;
    If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
    And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

    If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
    If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
    Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
    And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
    Not even Jesus Christ himself could live like what is told here. I like the wise lessons in it but dont like the ending.
    The ending is my favorite part. Why not make life's problems an opportunity to make a man (or a woman) of your self? And review your previous stupidities in order to improve as a person? For me it says that no matter what your trials and tribulations and mistakes, you'll be a man at the end of it. Wonderful.

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    United States Avalon Member Arcturian108's Avatar
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    Default Re: "If" - by Rudyard Kipling (sound familiar?)

    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by Arcturian108 (here)
    If—
    By Rudyard Kipling


    If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
    Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

    If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
    If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;
    If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
    And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

    If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
    And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;
    If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
    And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

    If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
    If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
    Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
    And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
    Not even Jesus Christ himself could live like what is told here. I like the wise lessons in it but dont like the ending.
    I believe that what I read about this poem is that it was written for Kipling's own son.

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    Netherlands Avalon Member
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    Default Re: "If" - by Rudyard Kipling (sound familiar?)

    Quote Posted by happyuk (here)
    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Quote Posted by Arcturian108 (here)
    If—
    By Rudyard Kipling


    If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;
    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
    Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

    If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
    If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;
    If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
    And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

    If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
    And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;
    If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
    And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

    If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
    If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
    Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
    And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
    Not even Jesus Christ himself could live like what is told here. I like the wise lessons in it but dont like the ending.
    The ending is my favorite part. Why not make life's problems an opportunity to make a man (or a woman) of your self? And review your previous stupidities in order to improve as a person? For me it says that no matter what your trials and tribulations and mistakes, you'll be a man at the end of it. Wonderful.
    I dont think that is what it says. But everybody can get something else out of a poem.

    I totally agree with learning from your mistakes and improve as a person. But what is mentioned in the poem is doing everything exactly right and morallisticly (is this a word?) superior. The poem doesnt talk about the mistakes.

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