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Thread: Apis and Goat of Mendes Figures in Ufology?

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    United States Avalon Member arborealis's Avatar
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    Default Apis Bull and Goat of Mendes type Figures in Ufology?

    Hello Avalon,

    This is a question that has been gnawing at me after a series of dreams in 2016 that were almost too-realistic, so whether it should be placed in a thread about dreams or contact, I am not sure. 

    Has anybody encountered, dreamed of, read about or heard of UFO occupants being a traditional type of either the Pan/Baphomet creature
    or an immense ox/water buffalo/bull-type being in the same biological format: Ox head, bipedal, humanoid upper bodily
    structure?

    Both types were navigating classic saucer UFO/glowing orb/spheres in my dreams and came to me, one on each side, the goat from my right (the
    north) and the Bull from my left (the south.)

    Is there a UFO-concordant history to these mythological figures?
    Last edited by arborealis; 5th December 2019 at 21:33.

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    Romania Avalon Member EFO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apis and Goat of Mendes Figures in Ufology?

    Despite the fact that I meet some,even human looking,none of them looks like those you described.
    "Your planet is forbidden for an open visit - extremely aggressive social environment,despite almost perfect climatic conditions.Almost 4 billion violent deaths for the last 5000 years and about 15000 major military conflicts in the same period."

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    United States Avalon Member Ratszinger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apis and Goat of Mendes Figures in Ufology?

    The tale of the people of the north say they came from the mating of a monkey and a goat! "Fray", the god with horns and his twin sister "Fraya" were the result of this mating and the first humans according to this story. Horns were looked for in the 'real king' in Irish lore my grandmother told us stories about and according to this story the real king had certain signs to look for to be sure it was the "real O'Neill" it came time to get a new king. So if the birthmark and the horns were not evident somewhere they went to the next in line til they found it and when horns that could be felt and seen could show up on his head at the jaw, or the forehead or at times in the mouth or on the knees later at other times and then they'd rejoice at finding the next king. Now this may be fancifull BS too mind you.

    It is interesting to me that your dream is of the Fray or Pan character affiliated with the Fray and Fraya forming of Man. Going by memory man formed from the day the sun decided to change. This time when the sun changed it decided it was time to start over and to make some new life forms. It spat out tremendous amounts of mass and from this mass came this ball of plasma encased in water and it broke open and it spilled all over the earth and all life in this type was formed at this time on the new earth as it washed clean of the old and from this green muck all the new species grew. From this came a monkey and a goat long after the first learning plants that stung and ate meat.

    In time these land creatures formed and one day in the final phase of the sun in it's convulsions it changed once more to the yellow sun we see today and when this sun said hello the earth was ripe for the creation of the man animal. One day an Appa met a Bock and the Appa had a 'peli' and the goat had a 'pelu' in one version of this story and the Appa or monkey put his "peli" in the pelu of the Bock or Goat to express his love just as the sun changed and Fray and Fraya the first humans were made and from this they later mated to create all of mankind.
    Last edited by Ratszinger; 2nd December 2019 at 18:26.
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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    Default Re: Apis and Goat of Mendes Figures in Ufology?

    In relation to your post arborealis, Djinn pop into my mind.

    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    United States Avalon Member arborealis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apis and Goat of Mendes Figures in Ufology?

    Thanks all,

    I did not expect those type of beings to be maneuvering saucers, much less approaching me...even in dreams. It was very bizarre. The recognition of what they signify according to the most commonly
    referred-to cultural references of these animal gods or animal demons was very confusing for me.

    My initial interpretation from the first dream was, to beg internally, "Oh no- please tell me that Satanic Baphomet and child sacrificing Moloch are not
    actually coming to me with a purpose." It really troubled me for a while. Of course after some deliberating and reading about the basis of these historical figures, I arrive much to the same questions as with parts of Christianity and other religions...many what if's... what if everything that was really up is already down and vice versa, that everything we currently know in modern humanity is a perversion...that maybe there was nothing dark to these original entities, but that mankind or some other being attributed dark characteristics and sacrifices to them to manipulate us and disempower those entities? I've been so inundated with Christian symbolism that...maybe, just maybe, there is some other explanation or cultural history to these bull and goat beings...that somehow connects to our origins and UFOs...

    ... so maybe those beings were not representative of darkness in my dreams, as maybe they were beneficent long ago, historically. (?) ie: Brahma bulls and sacred cows in India, the Apis Bulls in Egypt or Pan, Amaltheia and Goat of Mendes before the Satanic reference...

    ---Fascinating, Ratszinger. Thank you! I will brush up on my knowledge of Vanir-Norse and Germanic Mythology. Hadn't even considered it, thanks much!

    As for the bull being, he looked quite a bit like the third character from the left in Sunny's depiction except more similar to an upright water buffalo with massive thick flattish horns that curved down behind the ears before coming up again, wearing a warrior type uniform and he was very powerfully imposing as compared to the goat, which was more of a ram with curved horns. I was frightened of the bull, not of the goat...with an overwhelming apprehension and foreboding when they both approached.


    Is that picture from a comic book? Go figure that the Djinn come up again...I suspect that Djinn or archons are responsible for many of my family's and my own experiences... * Wondering if there are actually comic books depicting Djinn...* Wow.

    Seems that even though I am new to the concept of these entities, they have a fairly common storyline and place in history as well as pop-culture consciousness. O_O It is interesting to read that there were "good" and "bad" (service to self and service to others?) members of their kind... like Angels, like humans... wouldn't that be something if at one point we all got along...

    Thanks all...
    Last edited by arborealis; 7th December 2019 at 02:46. Reason: spelling, forgetting things, legibility, on and on :-)

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    Brazil Avalon Member rogparan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apis and Goat of Mendes Figures in Ufology?

    I did a short research before reply to give some tech approach in the fantastic learning about dreams. The first impressions I had remained stable, so I summarize them at the end of this research step.

    Psychoanalysis considers dreams to be always endowed with meaning, presenting contents that are subject to interpretation within a psychological framework, while almost other areas see the dreams as the most irrational and devoid of logic in human experience. (lol) So, like a psychoanalyst, I'm not intended to give answers, but inspire the dreamers to discover It by own.

    Based on the info " a series of dreams in 2016 that were almost too-realistic, " means that these dreams contains subjetive layers of information although they seem unrealistic and unreasonable. Ordinary dreams about lucid projection are more easy to identify and distinguish due to their extremely personal characteristics, so, projective themes can happen to ones that never experienced a entirely lucid major projection.

    Due to an inoperative nature, the dreamer may not always determine the oneiric images at will, but acts like a spectator or semi-spectator of a show that unfolds before it, over which it has no control, as in fact, we do not dream, we are dreamt, we suffer the dream, we are objects of the dream.

    The causes of oneiric images are highly varied. Among others we have discontinuity in the degree of extraphysical awareness, incorrect rationalization of facts occurred during authentic projections, physical or extraphysical trauma while the human body is inactive, unconscious creation of morpho-thought-forms or its reception from others. For last, not forget trivial hypothesis, like sheer hallucination due to foods or medication.

    Oneiric image born in a dream inside the consciousness, whether it is imaginative, hallucinatory, nightmarish, that can be one own morpho thought-feeling form, a form coming from another intelligence, or a distorted perception of extraphysical reality, So, dream symbols are generated in an attempt to compensate an insufficiency in the physical memory bank, called bio-memory.

    ---

    The useful tech approach worth before look objectively at the symbols, that all seems to be an Earth element of Fertility humanized creature (Pan, ox, bull). So, being a woman with fertility power, thougts, feelings or even influenced by others that eventually wants her get a baby, could be good lines of investigation about these serie of dreams.

    I suggest try remember circumstances at time these dreams happened for help more this self investigation, I think, aimed to clarify a possible compensation of psychological memory, to fill with facts that most likely happened in the dream time.

    we can call this as a "intended retro-cognition" .. to work on it will stir and relive memories but should be the shortest way .. (even can be seen as time-traveler, or retro-self-projection)
    Last edited by rogparan; 7th December 2019 at 06:11.
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    United States Avalon Member arborealis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Apis and Goat of Mendes Figures in Ufology?

    Hi Rogparan,

    Thank you for bringing the psychoanalytic approach to this. :-) Happy to explore what the beings might indicate from that perspective.

    I tend not to just look at dreams as symbolic anymore because I have had far too many too often that were precognitive, many that have left physical marks or impacted people next to me simultaneously (shared dreams) and too many life experiences that were irrational and unbelievable outside of the dream realm during conscious hours. I also suspect that many messages and communications from entities are relayed through dreams. 

    At the time of this dream sequence, I was far from home for a few weeks of training. During those weeks, I was completely alone, in class for 6-8 hours a day and studying intensely for the remainder of each day. I don't do any drugs or drink and I eat a really simple vegetarian diet- so nothing that I can think would cause any hallucinations. I was not under particularly high stress, but the training did consume absolutely all of my focus during that time.

    ...No masculine energies or males in my personal life that would have that type of view about me, none present during the training, nor did I get any sense of sexuality at all from those creatures in the dream...It was more like facing something spiritual: very old and very powerful...I had an innate recognition of them and yet was very apprehensive. One being seemed inferior to the other.  I love animals, there is really not an animal that I am afraid of anymore, so alarm about these things was out of character.

    In the dreams,at least in the first one, there was absolute darkness and I was standing on a very barren desert plain where the night sky seemed unusually low over the earth.  I could see horizon to horizon across an incredible expanse. The stars were multitudinous, and two appeared to fall from the ranks as white light orbs descending from north and south. I was facing west marveling at the galaxy unfurled above.

    There was the usual feeling of mounting dread whenever seeing these things heading toward me in real life, that sense of "not again" that is often mirrored in my dreams,  but I was astonished to find the navigators of the vessels to be what I considered mythical creatures. Not at all what I expected. Particularly surprising was that those were visages that I only knew about at the time as representing negative entities.

    Just noting that Bill's post about Chris Bledsoe's experience really struck a chord for many reasons, but per this thread, particularly because of his consistent contact with orbs and due to the bull in both the picture and his encounter.

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    Default Re: Apis and Goat of Mendes Figures in Ufology?

    Quote Posted by arborealis (here)
    I tend not to just look at dreams as symbolic anymore because I have had far too many too often that were precognitive, many that have left physical marks or impacted people next to me simultaneously (shared dreams) and too many life experiences that were irrational and unbelievable outside of the dream realm during conscious hours. I also suspect that many messages and communications from entities are relayed through dreams.
    Worth to adjust the focus here. Dreams and Symbols are intimacy related. In function of (others past) events that impacted your life, we can not discard a kind of precognitive or premonitory dreams. Messages and communications through dreams is a fact, so this suspect is highly plausible.

    I'll also consider was not a bad dream, although you was apprehensive, there wasn't fear, accompanied with the mentioned innate recognition about the beings. These are good signals, represented by the psych symbols you reported.

    Quote ..there was absolute darkness and I was standing on a very barren desert plain where the night sky seemed unusually low over the earth.
    Nice !! We have here "elements of dream" to make some psych reading. These elements are very important to understand the dreams messages.

    the darkness -- means a possible change for the better

    be in total darkness -- do not hesitate to take an opportunity

    cross a desert in the company of others - Harmony between friends

    note -- regard that the "others" (goat, bull) may have been created unconscious to make sense of the dream. I'm not saying is that, you know I'm speculating beside you.

    the night sky seemed unusually low over the earth - this highly implies was not a ordinary dream, but a dreamed projection .. as your (extra-physical) awareness are not trained to do that, the projection phenomena it's seen as a dream.

    Quote There was the usual feeling of mounting dread whenever seeing these things heading toward me in real life, that sense of "not again" that is often mirrored in my dreams
    look at the sense of "not again" (for the usual feeling of mounting dread)

    if the others (bad) dreams never happened again, we can be close to a good answer

    in this sense, the fertility symbols can means a fertile idea you desire in terms of "not again" (to It works like that, or something like that)

    Quote those were visages that I only knew about at the time as representing negative entities.
    So, you may have sent (negative) entities far away from you (by the "not again")

    Regarding the previous bad experiences, maybe that was a kind of closure that you had long wished for to (not) happen (again).

    I think the weeks of training were important to accomplish this possible outcome

    ( as I said, the learning about dreams its facinating )

    -- update --
    Quote Bill's post about Chris Bledsoe's experience
    I did'nt see the videos yet (bad english).
    Last edited by rogparan; Yesterday at 09:38.
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    Default Re: Apis and Goat of Mendes Figures in Ufology?

    Thank you, Rogparan! you may potentially have answered yesterday's question. My fiancé and I looked at each other and asked, "what happened? It's been a long time since any bad or frightening incidents have occurred! what caused it all to stop suddenly?"

    Quote "So, you may have sent (negative) entities far away from you (by the "not again")"


    I wonder if that is indeed what happened. :-) As simple as taking a stance against them? ... it makes me wonder: if they honor our sovereignty and command (much appreciated), could they have been that bad to begin with?

    I still am fascinated why they would be represented as a Bull and a Goat and all the different connotations of those creatures.

    Would you please direct me where to read more about "authentic projections" and "lucid projections"?

    Thank you!!

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    Default Re: Apis and Goat of Mendes Figures in Ufology?

    well, I prefer think the analysis only sniffed a warm track to choose .. it's a good first step .. explore unconscious & subconscious its like a onion .. I simple use objective & subjective inteligence to build a "potencial" way, as you said .. you give the bricks and I try to make a useful bridge to you find by yourself "what happened".

    As simple as taking a stance against them?
    -- Its multidimensional process of Will, that here on 3D linear mind seems simple Yes or No, so, your "not again" Will pass through abstract realms (psych-mental) before manifest in your physical life. In that sense, the dream is a message, a omen

    could they have been that bad to begin with?
    -- its a tricky question, because depends of the point of view (bad-good). The most commom argue is they have right to do that. It implies a kind of agreement, but you may not choose it properly. There are competition and business with living energy, as to say, livestock.

    why they would be represented as a Bull and a Goat
    -- This is my better comment for you now. Firstly need understand, interdimentional beings can appears to you like they want you see them, because from our perspective they are Balls of Energy (maybe orbs), which uses our subtil (psych&mental) planes as modeling plastic (plasma). Pehaps, they use this shape to put you On Guard and respect both (intimidating goat and bull). BTW, they don't want you know who they are. Negative beings behavior often use disguise to not be recognized, they are very astute. -lol- (to use our lack of awareness)

    Entering more deep (avoiding details), somewhat they need you forgiveness to be free from you, since they may owe you for years using you unethically. Possibly in these dreams, the subtil "part of (not again) process" was unfolded to it happen.

    you ask very good questions .. so, deserve good answers.

    where to read more about "authentic projections" and "lucid projections"
    -- I clicked two times, found and check these (not bad contents). I dont know much contents in english, and you can search much more, but be careful and prefer more tech approach than mystic or biased of cults (masonic, rosicrucian, new age , etc). Don't believe anything you can not experience by yourself.

    another hint, we share Astral Planes with animals realm and plants. These called Psych Planes (4D), are not the most subtil ones. Understand Interdimentional and Astral Planes is a kind of first step to be aware, about our (innate-spiritual) skills.

    many ignore or do not study this subject because they do not believe in it, or rather, ironically because religions repudiate. C'est la Vie !

    this one is good and simple, but I didn't find free (english) pdf
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ody-adventures

    Astral Travel for begginers - Richard Webster
    Astral Projection Workbook - JH Brennan
    the projection of the astral body - muldoon carrington
    the study and practice of astral projection - robert crookall

    more advanced book, with good tech research
    The Roots of Consciousness - Jeffrei Mishlove
    Last edited by rogparan; Yesterday at 10:04. Reason: update & books pdf
    here I am, but I don't belong to this world
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