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Thread: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

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    Avalon Member viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Frankly I dont think its about Brexit.
    Its about electing the Conservatives for another period.
    I await the result with interest
    Chris
    Personally I think its all about Brexit Chris...the people of the UK have voted to finish brexit and reject the EU dictaters... Even Boris has humbly thanked the voters for their support..

    If Sturgeon wants to stay up north she can but she certainly won't be independent if she stays within the EU boundaries.

    Viking
    Last edited by viking; 13th December 2019 at 09:17.
    You decide...your thoughts..your actions..your reality.
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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    Another disappointing turnout of voters.
    Looks like the pantomime is still working its magic.

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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    Quote Posted by viking (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Frankly I dont think its about Brexit.
    Its about electing the Conservatives for another period.
    I await the result with interest
    Chris
    Personally I think its all about Brexit Chris...the people of the UK have voted to finish brexit and reject the EU dictaters... Even Boris has humbly thanked the voters for their support..

    Is Sturgeon wants to stay up north she can but she certainly won't be independent if she stays within the EU boundaries.

    Viking
    I was about BREXIT - All the way.
    The People spoke.
    Get it done, unite and lets start the long haul rebuilding our standing on the world stage.

    I can't help but laugh at the hypocrisy that in times when all manner of people are wanting us to accept "diversity" and the rights of the "individual" to worship which ever god, to embrace the rights of an "individuals" sexual persuasion ( there's over a 100 according to the BBC !) that to want the UK to NOT be apart of a "Collective EU" and stand on it's own two feet is portrayed as wrong !

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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    The latest polls predicted a possible hung parliament with highly organized tactical voting expected to be hugely effective.
    How to turn this into a Tory landslide ? Easy peasy.

    You conduct exit polls in all the close constituencies, using facsimile ballot papers identical to the real thing – true, I read it yesterday, and no doubt thousands can testify to it. You then have all day to prepare to substitute real ballot papers with these forged ones – Tories get to vote twice, others not at all.

    These exit polls were themselves criminal, a big No No. And a big smoking gun: there can have been no other motive behind such a massive forgery than a Con landslide. The thousands of victims need to file a complaint. But they will be seen as bad losers: it is all those dumb northerners’ fault. And for once the conspiracy theorists won’t be interested, because those losers are on the winning side.



    A very slick piece of work.
    As I sit here this morning, mourning, I read your post utterly baffled. I just don’t understand this. How can that happen? Exit polls involve ballot papers? I thought they just questioned a percentage of voters leaving a cross section of polling stations.

    I took my own pen to the ballot box as only pencils are provided and that seems to me to invite dirty deeds on such an important election that people cast their votes in pencil! I raised it at the polling station, where I was viewed as a conspiracy nut no doubt, like ‘who would have the time or opportunity to do such a corrupt thing?’ What you describe I cannot even compute...

    But this shocking result suggests something is going down beyond my ken, which at the moment is, as you mention, a heavily manipulated nation easily programmed by the mainstream media. Yet, I just don’t want to believe that the majority of Brits are so shallow.

    If you are saying this is not an honest result it might ease my despair about people but raise more that we have no hope of ever getting out from under the hooves of the beast.

    It is highly likely that I will never vote again, like so many of the posters here, putting an end to a pointless, naive delusion that we can make a difference. Hardened cynicism that I can only beg Emily Pankhurst’s ghost forgiveness for.

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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    Quote Posted by Phoenix1304 (here)
    If you are saying this is not an honest result
    Here is something I wrote back in July:
    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    The Brexiters won the referendum, says Ulli’s friend. Take the voting system that voted for Brexit. I remember commenting on the appalling chaos at some UK polling station in a video I saw. In France, you have separate tables with four people checking exactly 100 envelopes at a time, with the general public breathing down their necks. The counted envelopes are immediately placed in larger envelopes and put back in the urn. It is clear for all to see that such an organization at least has a decent chance of working fairly. The chaos is already a sign that vote-rigging would be that much easier. But I have no hard info, so I will just state that the UK polling system seems less rigorous than elsewhere, and a close-run campaign is more vulnerable to tampering, and leave it at that.


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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    So it's vote rigging now !!

    Nah .. It was the Russians !

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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    Quote Posted by Did You See Them (here)
    So it's vote rigging now !!

    Nah .. It was the Russians !
    Well, the Russian oligarchs will certainly benefit from the tax haven for them that Britain will now become. Shame that strong economy will never trickle down to ordinary folk.

    Enjoy watching the demise of the NHS and democracy. Hopefully you will have excellent insurance policies to take care of you when you’re old and sick.

    Sorry I can’t celebrate with you the victory for liars, haters, polluters, plutocrats and pedos.

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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    Dear All,

    i notice that there are quite a few Americans on this thread. I've often found that our friends over the other side of the 'pond' completely misunderstand the EU and Brexit, perhaps due to Nigel Farage's many interviews with the American media.

    I'm going to repeat something I wrote a short while ago, just to make you think who the real enemies really are. It's all too easy to view the EU as the precursor to a malign, oppressive world government, but that's because it's the most highly visible target. The real movers and shakers are hiding behind the black curtains...

    Now read on...

    Quote Brexit and the Deep State:

    Something I often see is a tendency for conspiracy theorists in Anglo-Saxon countries outside Britain to regard Brexit as a titanic battle fought between an evil, globalist EU and a downtrodden vassal state, struggling to be free. This is the view put forward in many well-known alternative news aggregation sites, such as ZeroHedge. Joseph P. Farrell seems to share this view in the video presented in Post #1118 on the Brexit thread.

    So Britain's exit from the EU will be a jab in the eye for the Deep State, and will set the scene for similar rebelliousness elsewhere in the EU and throughout the world. Really?

    Do you really think the Deep State is as dumb as that? These are the same guys who have thrived on chaos for years, triggering financial crashes and profiting from the very wars they fund. They take the long view and look forward to a disunited world reduced to chaos and conflict.

    When the next global recession hits, there won't be a nice compliant Obama ready to pour more QE oil on the troubled financial waters of the US and Europe. I somehow doubt that a guy like Trump will be so ready to see reason and bail out other nations.

    The Deep Statists have done their job well: they've installed idiot, incompetent, populist politicians in the major governments who will put narrow national interests first, without thought of negotiation or consensus for the greater good. The Illuminati, meanwhile, will be waiting in the wings to profit from people's misery and, at the same time, to present themselves as our saviours. Just read James Rickard's concept of the Ice-Nine scenario:

    The Rickards ‘Big Freeze’ – How to Solve this Scenario!

    In this rather credible (and well-planned) timeline, the crumbling financial assets of the world of the world will be frozen, and out of the chaos a New World Order will emerge, with a single cashless currency (IMF Special Drawing Rights, or gold-backed cash). This scheme will be sold to the destitute masses as the only way out of an otherwise interminable recession, and the people will be grateful to their new masters.

    So if Brexiteers think that getting out of the EU offers the UK renewed Freedom and Sovereignty, just stop and think of where all this disunity could lead us.

    It's not impossible that the Brexit chaos could provide a major tipping-point for the next Great Recession in which the relatively benign EU is swept away and replaced by a surpassingly tyrannical World Government.
    Be careful what you wish for!
    Last edited by Longjohn; 13th December 2019 at 13:25.

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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    delete it all.
    Last edited by Kamikaze; 13th November 2020 at 17:57.

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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs



    This pretty much says it all.

    It's now up to us here in UK to keep Boris focused on his job.

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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    An addendum on reading some of the comments above:

    I need to make a comment regarding people's praise of David Icke as a supporter of Brexit. He may have said some commendable things over the years, but that doesn't mean he is always well-informed or correct.

    There is tendency amongst subscribers on this forum to agree with the master conspiracy theorists that have preceeded them, and not always look too deeply into the background themselves.

    If you had (i) been involved with the EU (as I have), had (ii) properly researched the history behind it (as I have), or (iii) had actually taken the trouble to see how little influence the EU really has on the daily life of the average Brit (as I have too), you would come to realise that despite the pronouncements of some of the more malfeasant UK politicians, the EU is actually a rather benign entity that has the approval of many of its member states.

    It's apparent to me that David Icke has not done that work, or has really thought about how the elites really operate behind the scenes.

    The EU has many shortcomings, that's true, but why can you not look to the manifold failings of the British parliamentary system and its compounded errors of policy over the decades, before placing the blame on an extranational body such as the EU?

    Remember that Britain is almost a microcosm of the EU, with its four nation states controlled by a highly polticised bureaucracy in London! How many of you ever thought of it like that?


    If you really examined the state of the British nation, with its vast disparity between rich and poor, its frightful neglect of its once-great state services, such as the NHS, education system, social services and the care of the elderly and infirm, then you would realise that Britain has become a shadow of its former self and absolutely none of that can be laid at the door of the EU!

    If the EU were really that bad then sensible nations such as Holland, Denmark, Ireland, Sweden and Austria would be queueing up to leave. Why aren't they?

    What form of British exceptionalism is it that makes that nation (out of all the 28 members) want to exit the EU in what many would say is the most hasty, disorderly, ill-prepared and damaging way possible?

    In my view, it's the consequence of the ignorance of the populace, fed by equally ill-informed politicians and right-wing media who condensed their message into simplistic slogans such as 'Get Brexit Done' and 'Take Back Control'.

    Behind the scenes of all this, there are the shadowy people who put money into Boris Johnson's leadership campaign, and worse still, those who sought to evade impending EU rules on offshore money laundering. See this, for example:

    Brexit: Endgame - The $20T Secret, with Stephen Fry

    I have appreciably less respect for people like David Icke now than I had before, thanks to their lack of depth and poor consideration of the effect their message would have on people.

    Often conspiracy theorists are the last people you should listen to, and that includes some of the more naive people on this forum!
    Last edited by Longjohn; 15th December 2019 at 16:48.

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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    Greetings long john these are good points

    The concerns in poor working class areas regarding the EU centred around the process whereby cheap foreign labour undermined the wages rates they could get, they also saw hospitals that were under resourced and full of foreigners, shops flooded with eu food while British farmers were paid not to produce and our eu funding being deployed as subsidy to move industry out of the uk and relocate to Eastern Europe.

    Of course you can technically attempt to refute these perceptions but the mistake that the arrogant elites in Brussels, and their remainer supporters who are urban middle class left leaning romantics, made was to discount these views, pay no respect to these concerns. Kier starmer and your ilk take note.

    We conspiracy theorists are very wary of the eu. Speaking personally I agree that it does great things, but I am more worried about what it could do rather than what it has done so far. It is being built to be ready to morph out of the box into a land military super power without the same democratic checks and balances that you find in a modern nation. Such organisations are built painstakingly over decades but their full purpose and function is revealed much later when crisis hits

    Therefore it is a libertarian question- why do they keep wanting to take sovereignty from sovereign nations?
    we have subcontracted the business of healing people to Companies who profit from sickness.

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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    delete it all.
    Last edited by Kamikaze; 13th November 2020 at 17:57.

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    Avalon Member viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    This is just a small snippet from the link below ... Makes interesting reading...

    http://eutruth.org.uk/?fbclid=3DIwAR...JViF-FO2IpgCZ=

    The EU is an unelected 3 tier dictatorship on the soviet model, with a sham parliament in Brussels. In time, that's slavery for all of us.
    The EU has bribed 28 Prime Ministers with £10 million per treaty to sign away their nations and their freedom. Ordinary Ministers get less. Its much cheaper than building weapons and going to war, as Adolf Hitler did.

    That is why all the establishment is wholly in favour of the EU. Edward Heath’s bribe was money laundered to him as a Nobel Peace Prize. Except he hadn’t created any peace. Formerly penniless, he bought a £3 million house in Salisbury, and his yacht, Morning Cloud, with it.

    The EU is the end of the once democratic Great Britain, which was abolished by the EU’s Lisbon Treaty on the First January 2009. This referendum is our last chance to get Britain, our 3,500 year old nation, back.

    The EU’s massive immigration means the English become a minority in their own nation in 9 years, according to the Office of National Statistics. Not long afterwards, we will be ruled by the immigrant majority.

    The EU’s ethnic cleansing of the English has been completely successful. They believe in divide and conquer.

    The EU’s immigration laws mean we can’t stop terrorists coming in to Britain, or deport them.

    The EU is an imperialist nation. It started with 6 nations. Now, by bribing leaders, it has 28. It took ten former allied nations from Russia. Ten wasn’t enough; It fermented war to get Ukraine. President Putin finally intervened to stop that one.

    The EU is a military union. The Lisbon Treaty orders us to hand over our Army, Navy, Airforce and nuclear weapons to the EU.

    The EU has been misrepresenting the peaceful President Putin, making him out to be an enemy, the usual media precursor to war. This is dangerous, as Russia supplies the EU with much of its energy; but the EU is determined to provoke him. As a member, we can’t stop them.

    David Cameron proved with his complete “renegotiation” failure that we have no influence inside the EU.

    The EU is just 7% of the world, and its doing badly. We need to be part of the 93% outside the EU.

    The Euro is a disastrous currency, and has wrecked nations from Greece to France. EU borrowing is so massive the Euro is permanently on the edge of collapse.

    We entered the EU as the world's 3rd largest economy. The EU has adversely affected our trade, and we are now the 9th largest economy in the world. We now lose £70 billion a year trading with the EU.

    The 120,000 EU regulations have already closed scores of thousands of British companies. When fully enforced, they will destroy British trade and drive us into poverty.

    We spend £100 billion a year enforcing EU regulations already - Better Regulation Commission.

    The EU forces us to spend £210 billion a year according the the Cabinet Office on 8,500 pointless quangos, whose job is to bribe board members with £700,000 salaries to support the EU. That’s more bribery.

    £100 +210 billion = 310 billion (20% of our GDP) wasted annually on the EU, which makes our EU contribution of £16 billion look irrelevant.

    The EU is utterly corrupt. It cannot account for 95% of its expenditure. That’s not 5%, its ninety five % lost. Bribery is massive.

    Most of Britain’s laws are now EU laws. EU Corpus Juris, which replaced Common Law in 1992, puts government above the law. The police have shot 50 innocent people dead since 1992, killed 1,500 in custody, and they can’t be prosecuted.

    The EU Arrest Warrant allows you to be dragged away to another EU country and languish in their prisons, with no judge, no jury and no justice.

    The EU’s Compliance and Restraint Order systems allow the government to close your bank account and keep your money, on the whim of a government official, with no judge, no jury and no justice. Thousands of English people have lost everything, and the government makes billions out of it. Its the French “J’accuse” system. Try not to be noticed by government.

    UK Government corruption has exploded in the 43 years we’ve been inside the EU.

    The EU has controlled the Conservative and Labour parties for 20 years. Much of our democracy has already gone.

    Neither the Leave leaflet nor Boris Johnson have mentioned the above. His contribution to the Leave campaign is mere buffoonery. Have leaders of the Leave campaign been appointed to try to make it fail?

    The Irish second EU referendum was rigged. Will ours be too? 454 of our MPs were selected by the Conservative and Labour parties for their pro-EU views. They are already talking about scuppering a Leave vote.

    The most successful nations in Europe aren’t in the EU. Switzerland, with 8 million population, and Norway with 5 million, are far more wealthy people than any EU nation, and don’t have the Euro or its problems.

    There are 180 independent nations with smaller economies than ours. We will easily prosper outside.

    Viking
    You decide...your thoughts..your actions..your reality.
    Choose well.
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...are-the-change

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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    See quick comments below:

    Quote Posted by Baby Steps (here)
    Greetings long john these are good points

    The concerns in poor working class areas regarding the EU centred around the process whereby cheap foreign labour undermined the wages rates they could get, they also saw hospitals that were under resourced and full of foreigners, shops flooded with eu food while British farmers were paid not to produce and our eu funding being deployed as subsidy to move industry out of the uk and relocate to Eastern Europe.

    LJ: Many people came over from the EU to do jobs that Brits thought were beneath them, such as picking fruit, working as care assistants in the NHS, and receptionists or cleaners in hotels. See the video from Stephen Fry in my message above!

    Of course you can technically attempt to refute these perceptions but the mistake that the arrogant elites in Brussels, and their remainer supporters who are urban middle class left leaning romantics, made was to discount these views, pay no respect to these concerns. Kier starmer and your ilk take note.

    LJ: There were some concerns, but these were magnified out of all proportion by Farage and Co. At the end of the day, Britain itself could have controlled this, but when you have a predominantly free-market economy, particularly during Tory administrations, what else do you expect? I remarked in the Brexit thread that Britain was always a stickler for following rules to the letter, whereas other more sensible European nations would bend them as they thought fit.

    We conspiracy theorists are very wary of the eu. Speaking personally I agree that it does great things, but I am more worried about what it could do rather than what it has done so far. It is being built to be ready to morph out of the box into a land military super power without the same democratic checks and balances that you find in a modern nation. Such organisations are built painstakingly over decades but their full purpose and function is revealed much later when crisis hits.

    LJ: I thought the whole business of the European army had been well and truly put to rest! On the other hand, if Britain were to remain as a member of the EU with its seat at the top table, then it could simply veto any re-emergence of that idea!

    To take your other point about crises, just wait and see what happens when we have the next recession and you can't get your money out the bank. That's nothing to do with the EU, but to do with the Basel accord on bail-ins. Do you conspiracy theorists have these facts at your disposal, or do you simply see things at a superficial level and blindly accept what you hear from people like Fulford, Farrell, Icke and so on?

    The powers behind the thrones of the world are the big corporations, the obscenely wealthy guys behind them, and those beholden to them.


    Therefore it is a libertarian question- why do they keep wanting to take sovereignty from sovereign nations?

    LJ: Just give me an example of that! It can be proven that more than 90% of Britain's laws come from parliament itself, and the ones that came from the EU were practically all approved by the British parliament. So it was always up to Britain whether it accepted EU rules or not.

    What do you really mean by 'sovereignty'? Is it an abstraction based on the false concept of being an exceptional nation, or a statement that we shall resolutely refuse to evolve our constitution and society by a process of sharing and learning from other nation states? That latter aspect, my friend, is something the British nation has rather singularly failed to do over the last 100 years, and it will only get worse after we cast ourselves off from the EU.

    Please also remember that in a libertarian world of multinational corporations, isn't national sovereignty an illusion?
    Best regards,

    John

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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    Dear Viking,

    The first three sentences at the top of your linked article are as follows:

    Quote
    How to exit from the EU:

    After Parliament illegally acted against our wishes for 43 years, we won!

    With our current politicians, Brexit may be done disastrously. If done well, our future will be superb.


    With the current crop of new Tory electees who have no understanding of work or life in the real world apart from an unquenchable, ideological committment to the free market, it will most assuredly be done disastrously!
    Last edited by Longjohn; 13th December 2019 at 17:22.

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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    Quote Posted by Longjohn (here)
    Dear Viking,

    The first three sentences at the top of your linked article are as follows:

    Quote
    How to exit from the EU:

    After Parliament illegally acted against our wishes for 43 years, we won!

    With our current politicians, Brexit may be done disastrously. If done well, our future will be superb.


    With the current crop of new Tory electees who have no understanding of work or life in the real world apart from an unquenchable, ideological committment to the free market, it will most assuredly be done disastrously!
    LOL... We'll see.

    Might be the case... Had we stayed then perhaps that would have been a disaster. Remember it's all a game Long John, you make sure you're not drawn too deep into the abyss. It's much brighter standing out and looking in.

    Thanks for your input.

    Viking
    You decide...your thoughts..your actions..your reality.
    Choose well.
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...are-the-change

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  35. Link to Post #38
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    Quote Posted by viking (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Frankly I dont think its about Brexit.
    Its about electing the Conservatives for another period.
    I await the result with interest
    Chris
    Personally I think its all about Brexit Chris...the people of the UK have voted to finish brexit and reject the EU dictaters... Even Boris has humbly thanked the voters for their support..

    If Sturgeon wants to stay up north she can but she certainly won't be independent if she stays within the EU boundaries.

    Viking
    I think there is an agenda beyond Brexit Viking--the unseen agenda.
    Its surprising the level of the win--its a massive majority--the Tories can now do what they want.
    A healthy situation is a clear majority but with a strong opposition.
    That is no the case here.
    The Labour Party broken probably because Corbyn did not support stay or leave, people rightly expect a leader to lead not sit on the fence, and promoting nationalization--the cost of which would have been massive, a bad idea.
    Any way it is as it is.
    Good luck to Boris may he serve the UK well.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  37. Link to Post #39
    UK Avalon Member scanner's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    Johnson's handlers play a good chess game. Vote tories, you'll get a very watered down Brexit and will take another alleged two years according to some EU officials. Johnson lied through his back teeth, to get Brixit done. So he's got his majority and can do as they please now. God help the poor of the UK. Taxes will increase for the poor and decrease for the rich. Not my figures, the Tories figures.

    So what was the alternative. Corbyn, "I'll have a second referendum if we come to power" bit like having an accident really. Deciding which leg to cut off for the best. Glad I didn't vote, at least you can't blame me when it turns ugly. After Bojo and Corbyn's massive lying comes to the fore, it's probably going too.

    https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/11/mps-j...G7aiDbJcnaqjq8
    Problem is they'll have to more prisons to put them all in.
    Last edited by scanner; 14th December 2019 at 13:00.
    Am I one of many or am I many of one ? interesting .

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    United States Avalon Member Arcturian108's Avatar
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    Default Re: UK Election... 12 Dec 2019: Corbyn, Boris, or Libs

    Viking: What amazing information you have about the horrid EU government. As an American I had no idea it was this bad. I did however, visit England twice in the past two years and couldn't believe how rarely I heard English spoken when traveling on the tube in London! The English natives seem to have fled London for rural areas, and former Londoners must be super mad that they have lost their capital to foreigners.

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