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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    This is a great discussion about the potential ramifications of this murder and why the murder of Soleimani is different than some of the other ones.


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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    All these responses are far too reactionary ! Is anyone here read into the intel our government has? This President didn't decide this on his own. He did not act in a vacuum against all military advisors and cabinet.

    This is a deeply divided government and its all power and politics. But this country is in a far bigger crisis in my opinion. and that crisis is a deeply partisan Media.
    This media is no longer a news source. Its a biased and bought mouthpiece for varying political and social agendas.

    We , the people should be able to turn on the news, any news, any channel and hear the facts plain and simple . Instead we are fed propaganda and then seek out media that suites our pre determined outlook as we cherry pick the info that bolsters our ego created identity.
    How the hell do people even know , when they can't even understand the running of their own family and business matters.

    How does anyone know the outcome of this within a day. ? This is insane. this could be the smartest move when looked back on , or equally the most dire. But is their any patience, any patriotism and support for this country, or just armchair condemnation .
    Why doesn't anyone talk to the somewhere near 800 soldiers killed and disabled at the hands of this general?

    To hear these Candidate liberal chicken hawks in the wake of Iraq, Libya and all the other wars they were part of, now take political advantage makes me sick. I voted liberal democrat all my life I will never consider this deranged party again regardless of outcome.

    No sane person wants war. but this sends a message in many corners, N Korea as well, that this Administration, like them or not, acts.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Personal historical note: When I was a child in late 60s, the private school my father worked at had a son of the Shah of Iran attending there (before his overthrow in 79) - a long ago component of US / CIA messing around in other countries governments for often nefarious aims, the results of which continue to spiral outward to this day...

    https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...rnment-of-iran

    Quote 1953
    August 19
    CIA-assisted coup overthrows government of Iran

    The Iranian military, with the support and financial assistance of the United States government, overthrows the government of Premier Mohammad Mosaddeq and reinstates the Shah of Iran. Iran remained a solid Cold War ally of the United States until a revolution ended the Shah’s rule in 1979.

    Mosaddeq came to prominence in Iran in 1951 when he was appointed premier. A fierce nationalist, Mosaddeq immediately began attacks on British oil companies operating in his country, calling for expropriation and nationalization of the oil fields. His actions brought him into conflict with the pro-Western elites of Iran and the Shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlevi. Indeed, the Shah dismissed Mossadeq in mid-1952, but massive public riots condemning the action forced the Shah to reinstate Mossadeq a short time later. U.S. officials watched events in Iran with growing suspicion. British intelligence sources, working with the American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), came to the conclusion that Mossadeq had communist leanings and would move Iran into the Soviet orbit if allowed to stay in power. Working with Shah, the CIA and British intelligence began to engineer a plot to overthrow Mossadeq. The Iranian premier, however, got wind of the plan and called his supporters to take to the streets in protest. At this point, the Shah left the country for “medical reasons.” While British intelligence backed away from the debacle, the CIA continued its covert operations in Iran. Working with pro-Shah forces and, most importantly, the Iranian military, the CIA cajoled, threatened, and bribed its way into influence and helped to organize another coup attempt against Mossadeq. On August 19, 1953, the military, backed by street protests organized and financed by the CIA, overthrew Mossadeq. The Shah quickly returned to take power and, as thanks for the American help, signed over 40 percent of Iran’s oil fields to U.S. companies.



    Always a good read in my view is this researcher's views, whether I agree with them or not - and I also agree with the above comment about 'responses are far too reactionary' while much info and points of view continue to flow in.

    Her article supports peterpam's views from previous page:

    Quote Trump seems to be in full support of the Israeli agenda, and Israel has been looking for any way to initiate a war with Iran.
    https://www.mintpressnews.com/dubiou...nation/263869/

    Quote The Drumbeat of War

    A Dubious Official Story Masks the True Motives Behind the Soleimani Assassination


    Behind the official yet dubious justifications for the U.S. airstrike that killed a top Iranian general on Friday lies a confluence of factors — some decades in the making, others more recent — that are pushing the U.S. towards yet another catastrophic war in the Middle East.

    by Whitney Webb
    and constitutional scholar Turley's article and views

    https://jonathanturley.org/2020/01/0...anian-general/

    Quote In a break from long-standing intelligence practices, President Donald Trump ordered the Defense Department to confirm that the United States was behind the missile strike that killed Qassem Soleimani, the commander of Iran’s secretive Quds Force, and six others, including Iraqi militia commander Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis. The public acknowledgement of responsibility is a game changer. While Iran (like most of us) assumed it was the United States, the public confirmation of the assassination removes any doubt and forces Iran and Iraq to deal with a direct and official attack. International law treats the targeted killing of a ranking military figure on foreign sovereign soil as a presumptive act of war. As always however there is no shortage of hypocrisy in the condemnations from Capitol Hill.

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., has denounced the failure to confer with Congress before taking this act. I agree with that criticism and has been a long-standing critic of the expanded war powers given to presidents. However, the Democrats are in no position to criticize since they are less concerned with consultation when the president is from their own party. President Obama acted unilaterally in launching the Libyan War. I represented Democratic and Republican members challenging that unilateral action.

    Michael Bloomberg has criticized Bernie Sanders for calling this an assassination but I am not sure what the distinction is between a “targeted killing” and an “assassination.” Both are targeting an individual.

    For decades, I have criticized how Congress has ignored the constitutional requirement to declare war and given presidents blank checks in pursuing wars at their discretion. Most relevantly, President Obama claimed the right to kill not just any foreigner but American citizens on his unilateral authority. I denounced this kill list policy but Democrats like Speaker Nancy Pelosi and others supported President Obama.

    Of course, the congressional Democrats are not the only ones caught in the hypocrisy of the moment. Russia, which has assassinated people around the world, has objected over the violation of international law.

    I have long posed the question of what would happen if another country took out an American leader or military figure on U.S. soil. We would certainly treat that as an act of war. Claiming American exceptionalism is not enough. We have to maintain a clear and credible position on military interventions if we expect the same protections of international law.

    This is precisely the danger that the Framers sought to avoid with the requirement that only Congress can declare a war. While the Administration claims that another attack was “imminent,” it should make that case to Congress. Even if one accepts that there are cases where a president must act on an exigent basis, that does not mean that the White House cannot confer with a handful of congressional leaders known as the Gang of Eight. Sen. Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.) however says that he was given a briefing when visiting the President in Florida.

    This brings us back to the official declaration of responsibility for the assassination. We are now on the record in committing an act that is widely defined as an act of war not just against Iran but arguably against Iraq. That places even greater pressure on our rationale for the right to carry out a missile attack in a sovereign country to kill a foreign military leader. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has referred to the “active . . . plotting” further acts. That has not been used previously as the basis for taking out a figure who is widely viewed as the second most powerful figure in a sovereign nation.

    Few people are grieving the death of Soleimani who has a long history of terrorist associations as well as connections to operations killing many American personnel. He is not the issue. The issue is the constitutional authority of a president to unilaterally take an act that is widely viewed as a act of war without conferral, let alone a declaration, from Congress. Again, President Trump is not the first president to assert such unilateral authority, but this remains a glaring contradiction in our constitutional system of checks and balances.
    Last edited by mountain_jim; 4th January 2020 at 15:22.
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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)
    This is a great discussion about the potential ramifications of this murder and why the murder of Soleimani is different than some of the other ones.

    There's a reason why none of these people will be allowed anywhere near a mainstream news outlet, and that fact alone should be quite telling to the discerning mind. Just as one example, remember when panelist Scott Ritter was openly mocked, and ultimately sidelined because he wasn't finding any evidence of current wmd's pre Iraq War (2003)?

    His findings didn't go along with narrative, did they?

    Well, he's on the right side of history again on this one, as were the rest of that panel. Contrary to the well propagandized popular belief in this country, the U.S. is light years away from being 'the good guys" when it comes to foreign policy.

    At least they made an attempt to fabricate supporting evidence for that Iraq invasion, since then they seem not too concerned about even making the effort any more, just unnamed sources citing secret Intel, Orwellian type distortions of what's really going on, and we're all just expected to fall in line like good lil boys and girls.
    Last edited by Gracy May; 4th January 2020 at 15:03.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Thanks Gracie May. and immediately someone will say, Oh RT you can't believe that Russian mouthpiece! As Alex Jones once said, theres a war on for our minds

    And I do remember Scott Ritter and how he was silenced.

    I know very little except for my own everyday reality. Its all a big game and it will play itself out regardless of my opinion.

    I will review all.
    blessings!

    doug

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    Why doesn't anyone talk to the somewhere near 800 soldiers killed and disabled at the hands of this general?
    First of all, your assertion that "nobody talks about it" is wrong ... many people are parroting that claim. But that claim is a lie:



    Quote In fact, the myth that Tehran is responsible for killing over 600 U.S. troops in the Iraq War is merely a new variant of a propaganda line that former Vice President Dick Cheney used to attempt to justify a war against Iran more than a decade ago. Reviewing the history of that earlier effort is necessary to understand why the new myth is a palpable lie.
    https://truthout.org/articles/lies-a...o-justify-war/

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    thanks Silvenef Perhaps this General was an innocent man? I don't know, I wasn't there. i gave my opinion and now will let you all you sort it out. Anyhow, its all the beginning of a proxy war agenda thats as old as the hills.

    blessings all!
    d

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Iyakum (here)
    Ok, I don't understand enough about the laws of the United States. But Obama has already been elected twice. Is it possible to be re-elected as president? Or does the election possibly refer to Michelle Obama? Ok Trump has kills Quds Commander
    from Iran. Who is one of the most dangerous people on earth. But that happened in Iraq. What was the Quds Commander doing in Iraq, why was he there?

    I don't know what to make of it. The commander was in Iraq to do what? Why and for what reason did Trump kill him? Is this the beginning of the fourth Gulf War? So what is behind it, what does Trump want to achieve with it? War against Iran? I don't know if it will be that easy.

    Or is that the first provocation and a call to war? So if one of you has more detailed information, then I ask for it.
    Don't blame Trump, blame the inside government. He's just the bathroom cologne clerk, like the others before him.
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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Oh my ... one day ago Trump was even bragging about the assassination ... now the US government is already caving in ...



    edit:

    US Asked Iran for ‘Proportionate Response’ to Suleimani Assassination: IRGC
    Last edited by silvanelf; 4th January 2020 at 17:44.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    thanks Silvenef Perhaps this General was an innocent man? I don't know, I wasn't there. i gave my opinion and now will let you all you sort it out. Anyhow, its all the beginning of a proxy war agenda thats as old as the hills.

    blessings all!
    d
    For all we know, he isn't even dead. The orchestrations can run deep. I try not to get drawn into the "squawking" anymore. (Been duped too often in the past)
    Blessings back PainterDoug
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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Wise words Ayt! I'm going to hold my horses.
    in the meantime, cover me!

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Trump statement on Iran: We Took Action Against Iran To Stop War

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Trump statement on Iran: We Took Action Against Iran To Stop War
    I'm glad you posted this John. It's actually one of the recent statements which I was referring to earlier as Orwellian.

    Sounds like a bit of news straight from "The Ministry of Truth".

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Pepe Escobar:

    EXCLUSIVE

    WHO SET IT ALL UP

    The top intel - from a top AMERICAN intel source:

    "The Trump position on Iran is dictated by the Deep State, who will impeach him if he disobeys... Trump could not pull out any troops from Syria without Israel hammering him. Lindsay Graham threatened the Republicans would move to impeachment if those troops are withdrawn. Trump is a marionette as relates to this assassination."

    And the clincher:

    "Israel set up the killing of General Qassem Soleimani to draw the United States into a war with Iran as with Iraq. That is what this is all about."
    we have subcontracted the business of healing people to Companies who profit from sickness.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Here's Abby Martin and Mike Prysner's take on it all. This was live-streamed on YouTube yesterday. The video ─ at 1 hour and 48 minutes ─ is now unlisted, but it was still in my viewing history.

    Most of the video is about the events at the subject of this thread ─ the last part of the video focuses on the US Democratic candidates and their respective responses to these events ─ and I am glad to say that this discourse sheds quite a different light on the events, which have been greatly warped and colorized by the corporate media and their propaganda machine, as well as by US politicians from both sides of the bipartisan divide.

    There is no sound at the start of the video, up until about a minute in. Please listen very carefully at what these genuinely independent investigative journalists ─ albeit self-admittedly with a left-wing perspective ─ have to say on the matter.



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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote And the clincher:

    "Israel set up the killing of General Qassem Soleimani to draw the United States into a war with Iran as with Iraq. That is what this is all about."
    Baby Steps , as I alluded to in my earlier [post

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Ayt (here)
    Can someone explain to me what Qasem Soleimani, the head of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps-Quds Force, was doing in Iraq?
    If you can explain why did USA president visit Iraq, may be, you can be get close to avoid hypocrisy.

    "President Donald Trump's surprise trip to Iraq to visit US troops, his first combat-zone visit as president, fell short among some political commentators, including one of the most highly decorated officers in the US Army."

    https://www.businessinsider.com/barr...t=allverticals
    Last edited by Tangri; 5th January 2020 at 00:21.
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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Baby Steps (here)
    Pepe Escobar:

    EXCLUSIVE

    WHO SET IT ALL UP

    The top intel - from a top AMERICAN intel source:

    "The Trump position on Iran is dictated by the Deep State, who will impeach him if he disobeys... Trump could not pull out any troops from Syria without Israel hammering him. Lindsay Graham threatened the Republicans would move to impeachment if those troops are withdrawn. Trump is a marionette as relates to this assassination."
    I wouldn't know for sure, but sure feels like more of the same old perpetual war games. Might help to stop focusing on the figureheads, like we always tend to do.
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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by earthdreamer (here)
    I just saw this news tonight and it is very worrisome. So this was an air strike on the Iranian general in Iraq, not necessarily a war on Iran.
    Do you really belive that?

    Think this scenario:

    The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJCS) was killed by Russian drones at mexican airport.

    What does it mean to you?
    Love and Hope

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Tangri (here)
    Think this scenario:

    The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJCS) was killed by Russian drones at Mexican airport.

    What does it mean to you?
    That's a very good analogy!

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