+ Reply to Thread
Page 10 of 18 FirstFirst 1 10 18 LastLast
Results 181 to 200 of 356

Thread: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

  1. Link to Post #181
    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd September 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Language
    Dutch
    Age
    53
    Posts
    3,901
    Thanks
    3,409
    Thanked 19,855 times in 3,323 posts

    Exclamation Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    LARA LOGAN: Mainstream Media Coverage of Iran Conflict, Qassem Soleimani Lacks Context:
    ~no need2follow anyone only consider to broaden (y)our horizon of possibilities
    ~new: Stop5G.net & FB Groups/Stop5G

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to ExomatrixTV For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (9th January 2020), edina (9th January 2020), Jayke (9th January 2020), justntime2learn (9th January 2020), Mercedes (9th January 2020), Tintin (9th January 2020)

  3. Link to Post #182
    Australia Avalon Member GMB1961's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th July 2015
    Location
    Mt Eliza, Victoria, Australia
    Age
    58
    Posts
    68
    Thanks
    381
    Thanked 419 times in 63 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    And here I was watching my country burn to the ground over the Christmas period hoping beyond hope that maybe this 2020 year would be different than previous years and a level of raised consciousness would finally replace the need to "kill or be killed" and it would seem that us and the planet we live on are still in its infancy in regards to being able to live together as one ( John Lennon).
    Imagine that!

  4. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to GMB1961 For This Post:

    Aragorn (9th January 2020), Bill Ryan (9th January 2020), ClearWater (9th January 2020), edina (9th January 2020), justntime2learn (9th January 2020), Mercedes (9th January 2020), peterpam (9th January 2020), Star Mariner (9th January 2020), Tintin (9th January 2020)

  5. Link to Post #183
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    16th January 2011
    Posts
    65
    Thanks
    49
    Thanked 195 times in 54 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/statu...34206986293248

    America just declared war on Iran.

    We shall see if they accept.

    So much for Trump being the anti war anti imperialism candidate.

    The people who look the other way on this war mongering disgust me.

    Welcome to the new year.
    Hello! I just wanted to shed light on an underlying issue that most people seem to be ignoring / unaware of.

    Iran and the US have been fighting via proxy for years now.

    I believe the threat from North Korea (Christmas Gift) was a misdirect from the attack Iran was already planning on New Year's Eve. North Korea, Iran, Russia, and China are all coordinated against the US and its allies. Iran could have not invaded that US embassy in Baghdad, Iraq and they knew the US would respond to such a provocation.

    I know people like to turn America into a punching bag for any conflict anywhere in the world, but the truth is, US only has bases in countries where people want the US to have bases. Trust me, the people of the US would rather be isolationists again, but there are people who care about getting involved in conflicts because the US military has the power to change the tide of conflict. The country gets morally guilted for inaction like in Syria, and gets dragged into conflicts that sometimes do not benefit it. If the US had no need to do business in the middle east, there would be no need to use military in order to secure its interests in oil and natural resources.

    Fortunately, renewable energy, electric vehicles, and Canadian tar sands have dramatically reduced US dependence on the middle east for crude oil, which is actually bad for business in the middle east. I believe they don't actually care about their own people, but they care more about appeasing them to stay in power so they can continue to profit.

    Here's the thing, the ruling class there actually has financial interest in conflict. The US benefits because oil is purchased in US dollars. The UN's law for proportionate military response actually encourages these never ending wars, but it also prevents us from destroying the planet with war.

    The US is the world's reserve currency which keeps funds flowing, and the oil cartels in the middle east has oil which is purchased in US dollars. This is a symbiotic relationship that allows for a perpetual war. When electric vehicles become ubiquitous, dependence on oil in the middle east cartels will be virtually eliminated, thus breaking the cycle. This can also lead to war as well, but we'll see.

    Ironically, Iran wants to wipe Israel (not the biggest fan of them either) off the map which is pretty aggressive, so they are no saints either. They have proxy militias that fight for their interests so they have plausible deniability.

    Back to Trump: I am NOT a Trump supporter for a variety of reasons, but when you are a leader of people armed with the knowledge that someone is actively planning to kill the people you lead you are faced with a moral dilemma: Do I do nothing to prevent my people from dying, or do I preemptively attack this person before they can do me harm? If I were in his shoes I would have made the same call.

    Why? Is it more merciful to shed the blood of 1-3 people today or respond after 100 of my people are killed tomorrow, which will lead to me having to shed the blood of hundreds more the day after that? This is one of those scenarios where there is no good option and you have to pick the least worst option.

    The middle east has been in conflict with itself long before the US ever existed. In fact, the Persians and Iran are the same people. When Iran/Persia had a conquesting empire in 499 BC they tried to conquer the world and almost succeeded. Xerxes had his work cut out for him when he tried to conquer Greece.

    Even if the US pulled out of the middle east entirely, it will be guilted into helping various sectarian groups fight in civil wars which it has no interest in (like Syria)... If the US left entirely, it gets blamed for the instability afterwards. We were actually criticized for being isolationists at the beginning of WWI. America was forced into using the threat of offense as a defensive measure.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/...rvention-1917/

  6. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to aceninja For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (9th January 2020), DbDraad (14th January 2020), Deux Corbeaux (9th January 2020), edina (9th January 2020), Ernie Nemeth (10th January 2020), justntime2learn (9th January 2020), mountain_jim (9th January 2020), peterpam (9th January 2020), Sadieblue (10th January 2020), Sammy (9th January 2020), T Smith (10th January 2020), Tintin (9th January 2020)

  7. Link to Post #184
    Germany Avalon Member Iyakum's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th October 2015
    Location
    Andeluiven
    Age
    55
    Posts
    155
    Thanks
    427
    Thanked 1,002 times in 151 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    This may complicate matters:

    https://twitter.com/NewsBreaking/sta...56874324606977

    It's Ukrainian. 180 passengers on board. Confirmed by AP
    Iran state TV says Ukrainian airplane crashes near Tehran

    The AP article is claiming is was mechanical difficulties, but local reports are saying it was accidentally shot down.

    And in case people missed this:

    https://twitter.com/JZarif/status/1214736614217469953
    My cousin sent it to me. I thought it would be appropriate to know where people came from. Anyway, they died and that shouldn't have happened. Murder innocent people. Whatever the reason for that. Whether it was a passenger who didn't like anyone or a politically motivated act. You could have done it in a different way. I'm sure not all passengers were spies or terrorists ...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Crash Victims.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	97.1 KB
ID:	42243  
    Last edited by Iyakum; 9th January 2020 at 13:55.
    Iyakum
    All the questions we have, all the answers we are looking for, about the meaning of life. Mother Nature, she has already answered, we just have to read it.

  8. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Iyakum For This Post:

    aceninja (10th January 2020), Bill Ryan (9th January 2020), edina (9th January 2020), justntime2learn (9th January 2020), mountain_jim (9th January 2020), Sadieblue (10th January 2020), Sammy (9th January 2020), Strat (9th January 2020), syrwong (9th January 2020), T Smith (10th January 2020), Tintin (9th January 2020)

  9. Link to Post #185
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    a lovely park bench
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,364
    Thanks
    30,706
    Thanked 27,342 times in 4,998 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    Looks like it is all simmering down. If so, this will go down as a Trump positive for a majority of those who go out and vote in 300 days. I, personally, will only be pleased if soon there's a plan for withdrawal of troops but I am also a realist and know this will depend on several parties feeling comfortable that Iraq (and not Iran) will decide Iraq's destiny.
    I would like to include that Iran doesn't get weaponized nuclear technology.

    I feel people underestimate how dangerous that would be.

    If Trump is doing what I think he is doing, all of this, plus the freedom for the Iranian people and stability in the region may be within reach.
    I can't imagine a rational and informed human being not having concerns that any country whose operational leadership is fundamentally motivated by an eschatological world view and obtains the power to bring an apocalypse to the world would restrain themselves from so doing. It is hard to argue that Iran, if they obtain nuclear weapons isn't a realistic (and serious) threat to use them. I have no doubt the Trump regime would act before Iran obtains such and I also think Ayatollah Khomeini understands this. Note, they may already have one or more nukes and there's a remote possibility the spy agencies can't comfortably confirm such. There are nor certainties, just probabilities.

    This will be a tricky next 10 months. Iran is backed into a corner. They could accelerate their program and have a nuke, before the election. If Trump would authorize taking out their nuke facilities (which would be betting on a certainty they know them all and can succeed), he and his team would need to be able to "prove well enough" their assumption which is also tricky. In part because to do so reveals elements of their spy methods and technologies which they don't want to do... but if he acts before the election, he risks being voted out.

    All the above is games that the top tier type two humans are allowed to play and they do so at our peril.
    Last edited by Sammy; 9th January 2020 at 14:47.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  10. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Sammy For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (9th January 2020), edina (9th January 2020), Iyakum (9th January 2020), justntime2learn (9th January 2020), mountain_jim (9th January 2020), Sadieblue (10th January 2020), T Smith (9th January 2020), Tintin (16th January 2020)

  11. Link to Post #186
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    a lovely park bench
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,364
    Thanks
    30,706
    Thanked 27,342 times in 4,998 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Here's a map you can see on Ron Paul's facebook page (do not assume I agree with all or even some of Ron Paul's positions on any of this... I prefer to maintain my own, independent opinions knowing I am barely above spectator level and thus vastly unknowledgeable).

    The map shows US bases in close proximity to Iran -

    Click image for larger version

Name:	US bases surrounding Iran.jpg
Views:	12
Size:	190.4 KB
ID:	42244
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  12. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Sammy For This Post:

    ClearWater (9th January 2020), edina (9th January 2020), Iyakum (9th January 2020), justntime2learn (9th January 2020), Mercedes (9th January 2020), mountain_jim (9th January 2020), Sadieblue (10th January 2020), silvanelf (9th January 2020), T Smith (9th January 2020), Tintin (13th January 2020)

  13. Link to Post #187
    United States Avalon Member
    Join Date
    13th January 2011
    Location
    Outback in the Four Corners
    Posts
    1,799
    Thanks
    12,773
    Thanked 13,143 times in 1,690 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Iyakum (here)
    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    This may complicate matters:

    https://twitter.com/NewsBreaking/sta...56874324606977

    It's Ukrainian. 180 passengers on board. Confirmed by AP
    Iran state TV says Ukrainian airplane crashes near Tehran

    The AP article is claiming is was mechanical difficulties, but local reports are saying it was accidentally shot down.

    And in case people missed this:

    https://twitter.com/JZarif/status/1214736614217469953
    My cousin sent it to me. I thought it would be appropriate to know where people came from. Anyway, they died and that shouldn't have happened. Murder innocent people. Whatever the reason for that. Whether it was a passenger who didn't like anyone or a politically motivated act. You could have done it in a different way. I'm sure not all passengers were spies or terrorists ...
    Yesterday I wondered if someone would come up with a manifest for the Ukrainian downed plane.

    This is something the Anons typically do, to dig on who may be a person of interest on the plane.

    Crowd-researching.... very effective.

    I shared links to that manifest here.

    If anything of interest shows up I'll update that comment.

    I think there were also children on that flight.

    My heart goes to the people who died and their loved ones.

    Side note: It's uncanny that it was Ukrainian. Also uncanny, that I was recently remote viewed by someone that I was able to track back to Ukraine. The only reason I can figure that someone from the Ukraine would try to
    1. Remote View me
    2. try to remote influence me

    Is because I've mentioned a couple of times in this public thread that I feel there is a connection between what's happening in Ukraine, and what's happening in Iran.

    I apologize, it's somewhat nebulous in my mind right now, (downside/upside of how an INFJ brain processes information).

    mgray's column also raises similar thoughts. A primary skill in developing research skills is the art/science of formulating questions.

    I thought this one was particularly helpful.

    Quote My big question is this. If a missile took down the flight, then did the Iran arms used come out of the Ukraine some three years ago?
    The similar question I've been asking myself is "Did the uranium sold to Rosatom (Russia) go through Ukraine to Iran, to be used specifically for nuclear weapons?"

    Soliemani was evidently working with the past administration to clean up the Benghazi gun-running deal. Was he also related to the movement of the US sold uranium?

    (And note that when Iran purportedly threatened to reveal who in the past administration, DC operatives, and I think EU operatives , received bribes to enrich themselves in exchange for paying certain factions within Iran to build nuclear weapons (black sites); who made visits to the region?)

    I suspect a similar model (endless wars business model) applies to North Korea.

    ******

    Tehran takes new step toward building a nuclear weapon, Arab News (7 Sep 2019)

    The Obama Administration’s Uranium One Scandal (National Review) 21 Oct 2017
    Last edited by edina; 10th January 2020 at 07:12.

  14. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to edina For This Post:

    ClearWater (9th January 2020), justntime2learn (9th January 2020), mountain_jim (9th January 2020), Sadieblue (10th January 2020), Sammy (9th January 2020), Tintin (13th January 2020)

  15. Link to Post #188
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    a lovely park bench
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,364
    Thanks
    30,706
    Thanked 27,342 times in 4,998 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    My overall opinion (echoing Edina's post) - The big one is the nukes. It's so big it is really the only one. But what the US did with the Solomaine takeout as things stand now assists the US in better positioning itself to act upon the perceived threat. Here's what was accomplished.

    Besides the nuke threat being highlighted, the US has made it clear that if Iran continues to sponsor (at their state level) terrorism, if Iran uses ballistic missiles (as it has) and continues to hold US citizens hostage as it is doing, Trump will act.

    Another overlooked "win" from the Trump POV is that the Iran Nuke deal is officially done as Iran has officially pulled out. This accomplished taking China, Russia, the UK, France and Germany out of the deal. No more deal, "thank you, Iran... we never bought that you were honoring it anyways and remember the sunset clause only three years away anyways..." as Trump and his team might be thinking.

    In addition, by Trump calling on NATO to unite in regards to all that has just happened and the perceived threat of Iran, whether he obtains the support of NATO nations as that may relate to the new "no deal" scenario and future actions the US may push, whether or not one or more nations join in he has made the case he asked for a united counter weight to the perceived threat of Iran.

    An additional factor is what so many people appear to overlook and you will never hear it mentioned in the 'compromised' legacy media. And that is the incredible advancements in espionage tech and war tech in the hands of the US military (and Trump and perhaps close US allies such as the UK and other 'five-eyes' nations) which means that the US can engage in threat deterrence and threat takeout without "boots on the ground." In fact, I could see the development of the perception that limited usage of such can also accomplish Trump's goal in massive "boots on the ground" reduction in much of this region. The downside (as is surely the case with the Solomaine takeout) is that when actions expose their usage, their existence is revealed.

    If Trump is re-elected, the world five years down the road may be far different than otherwise, and the theocratic dictatorship in Iran knows this and Kim Jong-il (and China, Russia and India) is watching it all closely as is the rest of the world.

    Indeed, interesting times.
    Last edited by Sammy; 9th January 2020 at 15:29.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  16. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Sammy For This Post:

    ClearWater (9th January 2020), edina (9th January 2020), Sadieblue (10th January 2020), Tintin (27th January 2020)

  17. Link to Post #189
    Germany Avalon Member Iyakum's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th October 2015
    Location
    Andeluiven
    Age
    55
    Posts
    155
    Thanks
    427
    Thanked 1,002 times in 151 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    @sammy,

    I agree with you, in many of your ways of thinking there is true logic behind it, that's a fact. It could also be a fact that Iran will somehow get hold of nuclear weapons of any kind. However, we will probably not find out from whom at this early stage. But it could be that it gets to Iran by road.

    Everything repeats itself over and over again. Only a few small changes are necessary to portray Iran as an axis of evil to the rest of the world. If Iran does not expose its nuclear program or even continue to do so, it is evidence for Trump that an attack is justified.

    If I got that right, then both the US army and the Russians have new weapon technologies that they want to test. Unfortunately, I do not know whether Israel is being served with it. So war will probably be inevitable. I think I remember that during the third Gulf War, Bush had no evidence that Iraq had B-C weapons. Nevertheless, Iraq was declared the former ally of the United States as an enemy.

    It is always the same game that is played. Each president of the United States leaves a small legacy of whatever kind to the other. Letter form or in a book full of notes, it doesn't matter. The fact is that Trump also received such information. Only in his case is it questionable whether Barack Obama has given him such information. I think more of the predecessor George W Bush. Bush is perfect for this and as far as we know there has already been contact with Bush or vice versa.

    On the one hand, it is very sad that this is done. On the other hand, we know that it has always been this way since the beginning of the USA and will remain so. Only in the case of Trump did someone use the gaps to expose him. Whoever was, or still is, knows exactly what he is doing.

    It is written in the stars whether Trump will be re-elected for a second term. But if not Trump then who? ? Obama is out of order, and the other candidates, well, the vulture knows whether they have what it takes to lead the United States. There is chaos, mistakes have been made, some mistakes. Whether Trump was misdirected on purpose could be the question of who it was. What would be missing now would be further attacks by Iran on US facilities and then the US response. Then we'll see what happens.
    Iyakum
    All the questions we have, all the answers we are looking for, about the meaning of life. Mother Nature, she has already answered, we just have to read it.

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Iyakum For This Post:

    Sadieblue (10th January 2020), Sammy (9th January 2020), Strat (9th January 2020)

  19. Link to Post #190
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    a lovely park bench
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,364
    Thanks
    30,706
    Thanked 27,342 times in 4,998 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Does anyone believe the US would not have ended up in full blown war with Iran well before today if the 2016 election outcome had been different?



    Yet a significantly large portion of humanity allows themselves to be so consumed with hatred for Trump, they will never allow themselves to consider how critical the choice was in 2016 as to the world situation as it stands today.

    Yet, and in my opinion, Trump fans the flames of this hatred and knows it.

    As much as I commented in this thread as events evolved, if things stand as they are today, I will reduce my opinion with regards to the degree to which "they" have Trump compromised. As an example, and I emphasize this is just opinion, if the Boltonites and the Netanyahuites had Trump compromised (via such methods as employed by Mossad/CIA blackmail operations), we would not be where we are today. Five days ago I strongly believed they had him compromised. I am now much less certain. Still - we shall see.

    I sometimes wonder if Trump intentionally wants to force the US (and the tier two human managers of the US and the world) to chose to make their next vote/choice or (in cases of non-US folks) maintenance of their prevailing political view of the US as either a.) based upon emotionally driven hatred or b.) rational thought. It's really quite incredible to see the world teetering on which way this will go. When I consider the actions I have taken when fueled by my emotions versus actions I took (and sometimes held back) when I allowed all aspects of my being to play a role in my responses, it's clear the latter produces better results, especially when I view those results from the perspectives of others, including myself.

    It's almost as if Trump is forcing the world to choose emotional response or otherwise. I am not suggesting that if this is true, it is being done wittingly.
    Last edited by Sammy; 9th January 2020 at 16:38.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  20. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Sammy For This Post:

    ClearWater (9th January 2020), edina (9th January 2020), Iyakum (9th January 2020), Jayke (9th January 2020), mountain_jim (9th January 2020), Sadieblue (10th January 2020), T Smith (9th January 2020)

  21. Link to Post #191
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    a lovely park bench
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,364
    Thanks
    30,706
    Thanked 27,342 times in 4,998 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    If I were forced to make a bet, I would bet that someone in Iran accidentally shot the plane down or that it was done by "someone" as an operation to pin it on someone in Iran that can be, through the media, "proven" connected with the Ayatollah backed military or proven to be "spies/traitors" against the Ayatollah.

    But my bet (regardless of how it is spun) is that the plane was shot down.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  22. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Sammy For This Post:

    edina (9th January 2020), Iyakum (9th January 2020), mountain_jim (9th January 2020), Sadieblue (10th January 2020), T Smith (9th January 2020)

  23. Link to Post #192
    Madagascar Avalon Member silvanelf's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th May 2019
    Age
    60
    Posts
    215
    Thanks
    2,105
    Thanked 935 times in 191 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    I can't imagine a rational and informed human being not having concerns that any country whose operational leadership is fundamentally motivated by an eschatological world view and obtains the power to bring an apocalypse to the world would restrain themselves from so doing. It is hard to argue that Iran, if they obtain nuclear weapons isn't a realistic (and serious) threat to use them. [...]
    You forgot to mention a few others, for example Pompeo:

    Quote Pompeo, Awaiting the Rapture, Pushed Trump to Strike Iranian General Soleimani

    The Washington Post has reported that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was the main force that pushed Trump into assassinating Iranian Major General Soleimani. Pompeo, according to a New York Times reporter, had a fixation with a bible passage about Queen Esther protecting Israel from Iran. Pompeo’s extreme hostility towards Iran is motivated by his extreme religious beliefs.
    In November, Mr. Pompeo told a reporter for The New York Times Magazine that the Bible “informs everything I do.” The reporter noticed an open Bible in his office, with a Swiss Army knife marking his place at the end of the book of Queen Esther.
    Mike Pompeo is a conservative evangelical Christian who believes in the rapture and that God is working through Trump and himself.

    -- snip --
    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...eral-Soleimani

  24. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to silvanelf For This Post:

    ClearWater (9th January 2020), edina (9th January 2020), Jayke (9th January 2020)

  25. Link to Post #193
    Avalon Member
    Join Date
    21st July 2010
    Age
    33
    Posts
    655
    Thanks
    305
    Thanked 3,002 times in 561 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    I think it is interesting that any critique of the administration and policies is met with something along the lines of

    "you are so biased against trump" or "you have trump derangement syndrome"

    I find this to be a trap and a red herring. Many of the trump supporters, both overt and covert, will try to force you into this mode.

    It is something like reverse ad-hominem. They are trying to make you talk about his personality and him instead of the things he is doing with the office of the president.

    Do not fall for this bait. Stay focused on policies(like not releasing the JFK info and not withdrawing from occupations or closing guantanamo bay.)

    The reason they try to force the debate about his personality is because it is difficult to defending holding families in cages and occupying countries for decades.

  26. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Praxis For This Post:

    edina (9th January 2020), silvanelf (9th January 2020)

  27. Link to Post #194
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    a lovely park bench
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,364
    Thanks
    30,706
    Thanked 27,342 times in 4,998 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    If I were forced to make a bet, I would bet that someone in Iran accidentally shot the plane down or that it was done by "someone" as an operation to pin it on someone in Iran that can be, through the media, "proven" connected with the Ayatollah backed military or proven to be "spies/traitors" against the Ayatollah.

    But my bet (regardless of how it is spun) is that the plane was shot down.
    Interesting... BREAKING NEWS -

    Mullahs' Mistake

    Jet crash that killed 176 caused by errant Iranian missile amid attack on US military: Pentagon

    Ukrainian airplane shot down by mistake by Iranian anti-aircraft missile, Pentagon officials believe

    If true, no wonder Iran won't turn over the black boxes. Note I emphasize "If true." Could just be propoganda.

    Quote Officials said U.S. intelligence increasingly points at the airliner being accidentally struck by a Russian-made missile, killing all 176 people on board the flight, just hours after Iran fired more than a dozen ballistic missiles targeting two military bases housing American and coalition troops.
    Last edited by Sammy; 9th January 2020 at 18:45.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  28. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Sammy For This Post:

    ClearWater (9th January 2020), edina (9th January 2020), T Smith (10th January 2020)

  29. Link to Post #195
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    a lovely park bench
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,364
    Thanks
    30,706
    Thanked 27,342 times in 4,998 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by silvanelf (here)
    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    I can't imagine a rational and informed human being not having concerns that any country whose operational leadership is fundamentally motivated by an eschatological world view and obtains the power to bring an apocalypse to the world would restrain themselves from so doing. It is hard to argue that Iran, if they obtain nuclear weapons isn't a realistic (and serious) threat to use them. [...]
    You forgot to mention a few others, for example Pompeo:
    Yep... yet he hasn't gotten his way as of now, thankfully.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  30. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sammy For This Post:

    ClearWater (9th January 2020), silvanelf (9th January 2020)

  31. Link to Post #196
    United States Avalon Member
    Join Date
    13th January 2011
    Location
    Outback in the Four Corners
    Posts
    1,799
    Thanks
    12,773
    Thanked 13,143 times in 1,690 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    If I were forced to make a bet, I would bet that someone in Iran accidentally shot the plane down or that it was done by "someone" as an operation to pin it on someone in Iran that can be, through the media, "proven" connected with the Ayatollah backed military or proven to be "spies/traitors" against the Ayatollah.

    But my bet (regardless of how it is spun) is that the plane was shot down.
    Interesting... BREAKING NEWS -

    Mullahs' Mistake

    Jet crash that killed 176 caused by errant Iranian missile amid attack on US military: Pentagon

    Ukrainian airplane shot down by mistake by Iranian anti-aircraft missile, Pentagon officials believe

    If true, no wonder Iran won't turn over the black boxes. Note I emphasize "If true." Could just be propoganda.

    Quote Officials said U.S. intelligence increasingly points at the airliner being accidentally struck by a Russian-made missile, killing all 176 people on board the flight, just hours after Iran fired more than a dozen ballistic missiles targeting two military bases housing American and coalition troops.
    I agree on the qualification of "if true".

    My understanding was the air space around Tehran was shut down during the missile launches, precisely to avoid such a mishap.

  32. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to edina For This Post:

    Sammy (9th January 2020), silvanelf (9th January 2020), T Smith (10th January 2020)

  33. Link to Post #197
    United States Avalon Member
    Join Date
    13th January 2011
    Location
    Outback in the Four Corners
    Posts
    1,799
    Thanks
    12,773
    Thanked 13,143 times in 1,690 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    I think it is interesting that any critique of the administration and policies is met with something along the lines of

    "you are so biased against trump" or "you have trump derangement syndrome"

    I find this to be a trap and a red herring. Many of the trump supporters, both overt and covert, will try to force you into this mode.

    It is something like reverse ad-hominem. They are trying to make you talk about his personality and him instead of the things he is doing with the office of the president.

    Do not fall for this bait. Stay focused on policies(like not releasing the JFK info and not withdrawing from occupations or closing guantanamo bay.)

    The reason they try to force the debate about his personality is because it is difficult to defending holding families in cages and occupying countries for decades.
    Praxis, I understand your concerns.

    And I've noticed it happens from many political directions, messenger over message, and personality over policy, emotion over reason, ect...

    And this is amplified, magnified and agitated in the present media/cultural environment.

    If this is going to be shifted, it has to start with each of us, on a human to human scale.

  34. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to edina For This Post:

    Jayke (9th January 2020), Sammy (9th January 2020), Star Mariner (10th January 2020), T Smith (10th January 2020)

  35. Link to Post #198
    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd September 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Language
    Dutch
    Age
    53
    Posts
    3,901
    Thanks
    3,409
    Thanked 19,855 times in 3,323 posts

    Exclamation Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    WAR WITH IRAN AVERTED?
    ~no need2follow anyone only consider to broaden (y)our horizon of possibilities
    ~new: Stop5G.net & FB Groups/Stop5G

  36. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ExomatrixTV For This Post:

    Jayke (9th January 2020), Sammy (9th January 2020)

  37. Link to Post #199
    Madagascar Avalon Member silvanelf's Avatar
    Join Date
    19th May 2019
    Age
    60
    Posts
    215
    Thanks
    2,105
    Thanked 935 times in 191 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    The whole debate about the plane crash in Iran is a mess -- look for yourself:

    Quote Canadian PM Trudeau Says Has Intelligence From Multiple Sources That Iran Shot Down Ukraine Jet

    The premier added that his government will not rest until it gets "closure, transparency, accountability, and justice" on the accident.

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has said they have intelligence information from multiple sources that a Ukrainian jet was shot down by an Iranian surface-to-air missile on Wednesday morning, Reuters reported citing the premier's speech at a news conference in Ottawa.
    "We have intelligence from multiple sources, including our allies and our own intelligence. The intelligence indicates that the plane was shot down by an Iranian surface to air missile. This may well have been unintentional", Trudeau said.
    He, however, did not elaborate on the particulars of the intelligence Canada possesses.
    https://sputniknews.com/world/202001...n-ukraine-jet/

    On the other hand ... see last tweet below:



    edit:

    Just another article...

    Quote Video Captures Alleged Moment Missile Strikes Boeing 737 Over Tehran

    With the narrative surrounding the crashed Ukrainian Boeing 737 changing by the minute, shifting away from a initially proposed theory of a technical error and shifting toward speculation the plane was accidentally or not taken down by someone (Iranians? Israelis? CIA?) on the ground, "evidence" is suddenly starting to emerge to validate this latest theory. And so moments ago, an unverified, unconfirmed video has appeared on the Telegram network, purporting to show the moment a missile strikes the Ukrainian flight PS752.

    Last edited by silvanelf; 9th January 2020 at 21:31.

  38. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to silvanelf For This Post:

    Sammy (9th January 2020), Tintin (16th January 2020)

  39. Link to Post #200
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th December 2011
    Location
    a lovely park bench
    Age
    62
    Posts
    5,364
    Thanks
    30,706
    Thanked 27,342 times in 4,998 posts

    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    It's now looking very likely true that Iran took down the Ukrainian airliner.
    Last edited by Sammy; 9th January 2020 at 21:25.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

  40. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sammy For This Post:

    edina (9th January 2020), Tintin (16th January 2020)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 10 of 18 FirstFirst 1 10 18 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts