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Thread: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Hey folks - mod hat on here. Just please remember to keep this discussion civil. Much thanks.
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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Edina,

    With regards your statement that you didn't understand the purpose of the thread, you have been thanking posts for the last five days including ones that are filled with almost nothing BUT references to the wrong headed nature of the attack on Iran. To claim you didn't know what the thread is about isn't honest and I wish you would stop with these techniques. If you want to disagree, it's all good, just come out and say it.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    This thread is about destroying the illusion that trump supporter live in that he is pro peace and anti deep state.
    Thank you for clarifying the purpose of this thread.

    Because I have been reading so many different points of view in this thread, I had missed it's purpose was to prove a point.

    I thought it was about expanding and deepening our understanding of the dynamic situation in Iran.

    I'll read deeper on your comments provided above, and see if I have anything of positive value to add to the conversation.

    I sincerely misunderstood the purpose of this thread.


    Well this is the crux of the thing Edina. The action that this thread is about is the point. It proves the point.

    I am not proving this point. Trump is with action and policy are proving the point. This is the crux of the issue.

    You are trying to flip this and play the outrage that you couldnt see my agenda like I pulled something on you.

    My agenda is never hidden. If you have been around you can see this in my posts. Generally, I am anti war and murder. Trump clearly is not.

    These actions and many others prove it. His inaction in many ways also show this (not immediately withdrawing from our occupations like he said in the campaign, like obama said . . . ).

    These actions that the admin takes and doesnt take are the point Edina. They make my point for me. I am just pointing them out.

    I really enjoy the "I sincerely misunderstood the purpose of this thread" and this victim framing passive aggressive high grounding.

    This is why I dont engage the Q people. They never address the issues I bring up.

    Edina, You have not mentioned the occupations which I reference. Why is this?
    Why do you not hold Trump to this point if you are anti occupation and anti war? They are kind of a big deal at trillions of dollars and almost two decades and thousand of soldiers with PTSD and lost limbs(not to mention the death and destruction of the Iraqi and Afghani people and land themselves!)

    Why do we let the idea go that Trump is both fighting the deep state but paralayzed to act as the Executive Branch CEO?
    Sorry Praxis, I didn't see this until just now.

    1. I'm not outraged.
    2. I don't feel like a victim.
    3. I'm thinking. (I left you a message on your profile page.)
    4. It seems to me that a conversation set up to prove a point is a win/lose dynamic. Or an either/or framework.

    I said, I'll be reading your comments to see if there is a way for me to participate in this thread in a positive, constructive way.

    I'm not interested in trying to prove/disprove one point of view of over another. It seems to me that structure sets up an adversarial dynamic.

    I'm not argumentative by nature. I tend to think in terms of and/and.

    I'm trying to figure out how to proceed in a way that builds bridges of understanding.

    I get to think about this, if I choose.

    And please understand I am and have been considering your point of view.
    Last edited by edina; 14th January 2020 at 03:00.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Edited out comments. I am too tired to be posting.
    Last edited by AutumnW; 14th January 2020 at 02:40.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    I'm not sure what you mean.

    Which comments do you want me to edit out?

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Edina,

    With regards your statement that you didn't understand the purpose of the thread, you have been thanking posts for the last five days including ones that are filled with almost nothing BUT references to the wrong headed nature of the attack on Iran. To claim you didn't know what the thread is about isn't honest and I wish you would stop with these techniques. If you want to disagree, it's all good, just come out and say it.
    But Autumn, "wrong headed nature" is your opinion... there's nothing wrong with others having a different opinion.

    And when someone reads the thread title, as I did, one might feel stimulated to comment (as I did). I was originally concerned the situation would go a different way (such as escalation) but instead, whether by luck, by calculation, by a bit of both... the way it has worked out as of now (other than Iran's tragic mistake which IS a big deal but again, is Iran's mistake) is good from the perspective of removal of a master warrior general that indeed kill hundreds of US soldiers, hundreds if not thousands of others outside Iran and over 1,000 Iranians just a few months ago...

    And this is why you see what you see in the streets in Iran right now - a great deal of Iranians do not want to be ruled by a religious dictator apparently.
    Last edited by Sammy; 14th January 2020 at 02:46.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Oh Man, I am just so tired, Sorry, Any comment of mine you quoted that feels offensive to you

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Will respond tomorrow, Sammy.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Edina,

    With regards your statement that you didn't understand the purpose of the thread, you have been thanking posts for the last five days including ones that are filled with almost nothing BUT references to the wrong headed nature of the attack on Iran. To claim you didn't know what the thread is about isn't honest and I wish you would stop with these techniques. If you want to disagree, it's all good, just come out and say it.
    I know you're tired. So no worries.

    I thank comments I agree with, and I thank comments I disagree with.

    Mostly, I thank comments that I feel informed by, or raises a point I hadn't considered, or offers a source that is new to me, ect...

    I tend not to thank comments that feel negative in their tone. Although occasionally I will, for some of the various reasons mentioned above.

    Sometimes, people can read too much into the whole "thanks" or no "thanks" thing.

    Why would you be monitoring my thanks?
    Last edited by edina; 14th January 2020 at 02:53.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    ... the way it has worked out as of now (other than Iran's tragic mistake which IS a big deal but again, is Iran's mistake) is good from the perspective of removal of a master warrior general that indeed kill hundreds of US soldiers, hundreds if not thousands of others outside Iran and over 1,000 Iranians just a few months ago...
    So, Sam, by your own logic, it would then be okay for just about any nation state in the Middle East and several in the Far East to assassinate George W. Bush, Barack Obama or Donald Trump ─ or any of their respective vice-presidents and their respective Secretaries of Defense ─ because of the millions of Iraqi civilians who've died because of the instability in their country since the US invasion of Iraq, the systematic torture of prisoners of war and terrorism suspects, and loads of other gross violations of the UN Declaration of Human Rights? And I suppose it would then also be perfectly okay to carry out this assassination by way of a drone strike on US American soil ─ say, at a civilian US American airport?

    By the way, did you know that George W. Bush can never set foot in Europe again? You see, over here, he has been found guilty as a war criminal and there is an outstanding warrant within the European Union for his arrest.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Aragorn (here)
    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    ... the way it has worked out as of now (other than Iran's tragic mistake which IS a big deal but again, is Iran's mistake) is good from the perspective of removal of a master warrior general that indeed kill hundreds of US soldiers, hundreds if not thousands of others outside Iran and over 1,000 Iranians just a few months ago...
    So, Sam, by your own logic, it would then be okay for just about any nation state in the Middle East and several in the Far East to assassinate George W. Bush, Barack Obama or Donald Trump ─ or any of their respective vice-presidents and their respective Secretaries of Defense ─ because of the millions of Iraqi civilians who've died because of the instability in their country since the US invasion of Iraq, the systematic torture of prisoners of war and terrorism suspects, and loads of other gross violations of the UN Declaration of Human Rights? And I suppose it would then also be perfectly okay to carry out this assassination by way of a drone strike on US American soil ─ say, at a civilian US American airport?

    By the way, did you know that George W. Bush can never set foot in Europe again? You see, over here, he has been found guilty as a war criminal and there is an outstanding warrant within the European Union for his arrest.
    That's interesting, do you have a source link for that?

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    Quote Posted by Aragorn (here)
    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    ... the way it has worked out as of now (other than Iran's tragic mistake which IS a big deal but again, is Iran's mistake) is good from the perspective of removal of a master warrior general that indeed kill hundreds of US soldiers, hundreds if not thousands of others outside Iran and over 1,000 Iranians just a few months ago...
    So, Sam, by your own logic, it would then be okay for just about any nation state in the Middle East and several in the Far East to assassinate George W. Bush, Barack Obama or Donald Trump ─ or any of their respective vice-presidents and their respective Secretaries of Defense ─ because of the millions of Iraqi civilians who've died because of the instability in their country since the US invasion of Iraq, the systematic torture of prisoners of war and terrorism suspects, and loads of other gross violations of the UN Declaration of Human Rights? And I suppose it would then also be perfectly okay to carry out this assassination by way of a drone strike on US American soil ─ say, at a civilian US American airport?

    By the way, did you know that George W. Bush can never set foot in Europe again? You see, over here, he has been found guilty as a war criminal and there is an outstanding warrant within the European Union for his arrest.
    That's interesting, do you have a source link for that?
    If you are referring to my last paragraph, then no, I'm afraid not. The Bush Jr. administration ended 11 years and, for myself, several computers ago.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    By the way ─ and I realize that it's slightly off-topic for this particular thread ─ but the vast majority of the member base here believes in reincarnation. So what do you think about the following woo-woo hypothesis?


    Click image for larger version

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    Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini was born on 29 July 1883 and died on 28 April 1945. Donald John Trump was born on 14 June 1946.
    Last edited by Aragorn; 14th January 2020 at 03:58.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Aragorn (here)
    By the way ─ and I realize that it's slightly off-topic for this particular thread ─ but the vast majority of the member base here believes in reincarnation. So what do you think about the following woo-woo hypothesis?




    Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini was born on 29 July 1883 and died on 28 April 1945. Donald John Trump was born on 14 June, 1946.
    Your image link is broken. (Never mind, I see the image now. )

    I thought he was a reincarnation of George Washington, or in some way shares an energetic signature with George Washington.

    But that comes a from personal experience I had.

    Signing out now, well past my bedtime.
    Last edited by edina; 14th January 2020 at 03:25.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    I thought he was a reincarnation of George Washington, or in some way shares an energetic signature with George Washington.

    But that comes a from personal experience I had.
    George Washington wasn't exactly the hero US Americans make him out to be either. His dentures were made from the teeth of his slaves (and some from animals). There is also a rumor ─ but there is no conclusive evidence either way ─ that he may have engaged in cannibalism.

    But we're drifting off-topic.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Thierry Meyssans latest article on the Soleimani situation:

    ============
    • https://www.voltairenet.org/article208858.html
    Behind the Scenes of U.S./Iran Relations by Thierry Meyssan

    By having Iranian General Qassem Soleimani assassinated in Iraq, President Trump nearly provoked the Third World War. At least that is the version of the US opposition and the international press. For Thierry Meyssan, what happens behind the scenes is very different from the show on stage. According to him, there is a move towards a coordinated military withdrawal of the United States and Iran from the Middle East.

    Two countries divided

    Relations between the USA and Iran are all the more difficult to understand because these two states are deeply divided:

    - The United States is ruled by President Donald Trump, but all experts see that the federal administration is strongly opposed to him, does not implement his instructions and is involved in the ongoing parliamentary process for his removal.

    - This is not a political division between Republicans and Democrats, since President Trump is not from that party, even though he has been nominated, but from a cultural divide: that of the three Anglo-Saxon civil wars (the British Civil War, U.S. Independence and the Civil War). Today it opposes the culture of the Rednecks, heirs of the "conquest of the West", and that of the Puritans, heirs of the "Pilgrim Fathers" of the Mayflower [1].

    - There are two competing powers in Iran: on the one hand the government of Sheikh Hassan Rohani and on the other the Guide of the Revolution, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Contrary to the claims of the Western media, it is not this or that group that is paralyzing the country, but the death struggle that these two groups are waging against each other.

    - President Rohani represents the interests of the bourgeoisie in Tehran and Esfahan, merchants oriented toward international trade and hard hit by U.S. sanctions. Sheikh Rohani is a long-time friend of the US deep state: he was the first Iranian contact between the Reagan administration and Israel during the Iran-Contra affair in 1985. It was he who introduced Hashem Rafsanjani to Oliver North’s men, allowing him to buy arms, to become the commander-in-chief of the armies and incidentally the richest man in the country, and then the President of the Islamic Republic. Sheikh Rohani was chosen by the Obama administration and Ali-Akbar Velayati during secret negotiations in Oman in 2013 to put an end to the secular nationalism of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and restore relations between the two countries.

    - On the contrary, the Guide of the Revolution is a function created by Imam Rouhollah Khomeini on the model of the sage of Plato’s Republic - there is nothing Muslim about it. Ayatollah Khamenei is supposed to ensure that political decisions do not contravene the principles of Islam and those of the anti-imperialist Revolution of 1978. He is the head of the Revolutionary Guard militia, of which General Qassem Soleimani was a member. His budget is extremely variable according to unforeseen fluctuations in oil revenues. It is therefore he - and not the Rohanian administration - that is most affected by the US sanctions. In recent years, he has tried to establish himself as a reference point within Islam in general, inviting to Tehran all the religious and political leaders of the Muslim world, including its fiercest opponents.

    Most of the decisions taken by either power, both in the US and in Iran, are immediately contradicted by his competitor.

    Another difficulty in understanding what is happening comes from the lies that these two powers have accumulated over the years, many of which are still very much present. We will only mention those that have been mentioned in recent days:

    - There was never a hostage crisis in 1979. US diplomatic personnel who were taken prisoner were arrested in flagrante delicto for spying. The embassy in Tehran was the CIA headquarters for the entire Middle East. It was not the Iranians but the United States that violated the obligations of diplomatic status. Two Marines of the embassy guard denounced the CIA’s actions, the espionage material is still visible in the embassy premises and the top-secret documents seized there have been published in more than 80 volumes.

    - The Islamic Republic of Iran has never recognized the State of Israel, but has never had the objective of annihilating the Jewish population. It advocated the principle of "one man, one vote", while persisting in considering that it also applied to all Palestinians who had emigrated and acquired foreign nationality. In 2019, it submitted a proposal for a referendum on self-determination in geographical Palestine (i.e. both Israel and political Palestine) to the UN Security Council.

    - Iran and Israel are not irreducible enemies since they jointly operate the Eilat-Ashkelon pipeline, which is jointly owned by the two states [2].

    - Iran stopped all research on atomic weapons in 1988 when Imam Khomeini declared weapons of mass destruction incompatible with his vision of Islam. Documents stolen by Israel and revealed by its Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in 2018 show that subsequent research has focused only on a shock wave generator (part of an atomic bomb detonator) [3]. It is not a nuclear part, but a mechanical part that can be used for other purposes.

    https://www.voltairenet.org/local/ca...35-2-799c9.jpg
    Seen from the West, President Trump has just added Qassem Soleimani to his list of murdered terrorists. But seen from the Middle East, he has just changed sides: after having shot Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, he has killed Daesh’s main enemy, Qassem Soleimani.


    The assassination of the hero

    With these foundations in place, let us look at the assassination of General Qassem Soleimani and the crisis it provoked.

    General Soleimani was an exceptional soldier. He launched his military carreer during the war imposed by Iraq (1980-88). His Special Forces, the Al-Quods section (i.e. Jerusalem in Arabic and Persian), came to the rescue of all the peoples of the Middle East who were victims of imperialism. For example, he was present alongside Lebanese Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah and Syrian General Hassan Turkmani in Beirut in the face of the Israeli attack in 2006. He distinguished between imperialism and the United States and negotiated many times with Washington, even proposing detailed alliances, for example in 2001 with President George Bush Jr. against the Afghan Taliban. However, from May 2018, he was only allowed to fight alongside the Shiite communities. Violating the ceasefire of the 1973 war, he launched attacks against Israel from Syrian territory, placing Damascus in the greatest embarrassment.

    Although President Trump understood the military role he played under Ayatollah Khamenei, he did not understand the symbol he had become and the admiration he enjoyed in almost every military academy in the world. He took a major risk in allowing his elimination and damaged his own reputation in the Middle East. Indeed, while as US president he had consistently opposed his country’s support for al-Qaeda and Daesh, he was responsible for the death of a man who embodied that fight in many theatres of operation through his blood. There is no need to dwell on the illegality of this assassination. This has not changed much in the behaviour of the United States since its inception.

    The assassination of Qassem Suleimani followed Washington’s designation of the Revolutionary Guards as a "terrorist organization" (sic). Iranians share a strong sense of being a people, a civilization. His death therefore temporarily reunited the two political powers in a single emotion. Millions of people took to the streets for his funeral.



    The conflagration will not take place

    All Western media have reported on Iran’s response plans over the past several years. But it is not on the basis of these plans that President Rohani and Guide Khamenei have reflected. The Iranians are not kids fighting in a schoolyard. They are a nation. So both leaders have reacted according to the best interests of their country, as they see it. Therefore, thunderous statements calling for revenge should not be taken seriously. There will be no Iranian revenge, just as there was no revenge from Hizbollah for the illegal Israeli assassination of Imad Moughniyah in Damascus in 2008.

    For Sheikh Rohani, regardless of General Soleimani’s death, it is essential to renew contact with Washington. Until now, he has considered that the Obama administration was the interlocutor that allowed him to come to power. Donald Trump was only a hitch in his career, destined to be removed from office at the beginning of his presidency (Russiagate and now Ukrainegate). He had therefore rejected his many calls for negotiations. However, President Trump is still there and is expected to remain there for the next four years. Affected by his illegal sanctions, the Iranian economy is sunk. The reaction of international empathy to the illegal assassination of General Soleimani therefore allows him to approach these negotiations not from a position of inferiority, but from a position of strength.

    For Ayatollah Khamenei, not only has the United States been a predator for Iran for a century, but Donald Trump is not a man of his word. Not because he did not keep his promises, but because he did not keep the promises of his predecessor. The 5+1 agreement had been approved by the UN Security Council. Iran regarded it as a law set in stone. Donald Trump tore it up, which he had every right to do. In addition to this public agreement, there was a secret agreement on the distribution of influence in the Middle East. This second text was also cancelled by President Trump and it is he who intends to renegotiate it bilaterally.

    Iran quickly announced that it no longer respected the 5+1 agreement, while pro-Iranian Iraqi MPs demanded the departure of US troops from their country. Contrary to what the Western media were led to believe, these two decisions were not competitive bids, but offers of peace. The 5+1 agreement no longer exists since the US withdrawal. Iran acknowledged this after having tried in vain to save it. The departure of US troops not only from Iraq, but from the entire Middle East is a commitment made by Donald Trump during his presidential campaign. He could not make it come true given the opposition of his administration. Iran sided with him.

    The powerful US oil lobby has given its support to President Trump by questioning the "Carter Doctrine". In 1980, President Jimmy Carter had stated that oil from the Gulf was indispensable to the US economy. As a result, the CentCom was created by his successor and the Pentagon guaranteed US companies access to oil from the Gulf. But today, the United States is independent when it comes to energy. It no longer needs this oil and therefore no longer needs to deploy its troops in the region. For them, the stakes have shifted. It is no longer a question of appropriating Arab-Persian oil, but of controlling world oil trade.

    The political leaders have not been able to adapt to the development of the means of communication. They talk too much and too fast. They hold postures and no longer know how to backtrack. Having uttered unbelievable calls for revenge, the Guardians of the Revolution had to react. But they had to be responsible and not make things worse. So they chose to bomb two US military bases in Iraq without causing casualties. Just as France, the United States and the United Kingdom had condemned Syria for allegedly using chemical weapons. Then, in the end, they bombed a military base without causing any casualties (but they did cause a fire that burned down the area around the base).

    It goes without saying that the US will not give up anything without compensation. Its military withdrawal will only be done in coordination with the Iranian military withdrawal. General Qassem Soleimani embodied precisely the Iranian military deployment. It is this double withdrawal that is currently being negotiated. We are already seeing a US withdrawal from Syria and Iraq to Kuwait. The episode of the letter sent, then cancelled, by General William Sheely III announcing the departure of US troops from Iraq is proof that these negotiations are indeed underway.

    Qassem Soleimani would surely be proud of his life, if his death would help to establish regional peace.
    ==========
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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote It goes without saying that the US will not give up anything without compensation. Its military withdrawal will only be done in coordination with the Iranian military withdrawal. General Qassem Soleimani embodied precisely the Iranian military deployment. It is this double withdrawal that is currently being negotiated. We are already seeing a US withdrawal from Syria and Iraq to Kuwait. The episode of the letter sent, then cancelled, by General William Sheely III announcing the departure of US troops from Iraq is proof that these negotiations are indeed underway.
    The whole "we won't leave without being compensated" is ridiculous. The US government throws billions of dollars around as "aid" (control), not to mention the 23 Trillion allegedly missing. The value of that base is peanuts to the US. I see the US military as huge, mean bully who uses it's size to intimidate.

    I would like someone to point out one regime change intervention by the US that has had a positive outcome?

    Quote President Trump said Thursday he will reduce the number of U.S. troops in Afghanistan to 8,600 but the U.S. will maintain a presence after a deal with the Taliban is reached in the 18-year war.
    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4...in-afghanistan

    The whole friggin thing is beginning to look like a parody of the wars in the book "1984"

    These wars, skirmishes, regime changes and assassinations are nothing more than perpetuating the military industrial complex, (and probably fulfilling a higher agenda that we are not privy to) it is simply feeding the beast. I do admit Trump gives us a far more dramatic, reality show type presentation of the whole thing.

    This is much bigger than the Iranian people liking or hating Soleimani , or whether Iran has an oppressive government. This is about a military person murdered by a drone during peace time in a public setting in another country by a government from a country halfway around the world. Did we now set a presidence for this? Are all you that think this was ok willing to have the same thing happen in your country, at your airport or other public place by another country who decides someone is evil, or is this just ok for the US?
    Last edited by peterpam; 14th January 2020 at 15:35.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    It is down to this:

    Iraq has officially asked to leave.

    Trump said no.

    This means he had the chance to leave as we have been asked, i.e. an excuse to leave which is what you seem to think he needs, and he said no.

    Edina, This is not a win lose situation.

    This is lose lose.

    The first lose is you support a war monger. Doesnt feel good does it? Since you support a war monger, that kind of makes you one too. This is why you are trying to do the Naive do gooder routine. You have realized you are wearing this hat and it is uncomfortable.

    The second lose is we are still occupying Iraq and Afghanistan which has been some of my most central issues since 2001. Which means my country is war monger which means I am too. See how this works? I am wearing this hat and I ****ing hate it.

    You are worse than me however as you actually support the admin doing it. But I am still a war monger too as, there are no civilians with a government by and for the people. That is why I get so upset.

    You and your president make me a war monger. Thanks. Just like obama and the worthless ass dems made me a warmonger. Just like Bush and the evil neo cons made me a war monger.

    I dont like being these things because people like you wish and hope that your man is something he is not.

    This is lose lose.

    Lose trillions of dollars

    Lose Millions of lives.

    I am upset because you dont even seem to realize these things. Do you not get how much money we spend on DOD each year and how Trump brags that he is spending more?

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Boris Johnson backs Trump to land a new deal with Iran

    London | British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said he's prepared to break the European consensus and rip up the nuclear deal with Iran in favour of a new pact negotiated by US President Donald Trump.


    In addition, rumblings from the EU suggest new sanctions on Iran coming.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Aragorn (here)
    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    Quote Posted by Aragorn (here)
    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    ... the way it has worked out as of now (other than Iran's tragic mistake which IS a big deal but again, is Iran's mistake) is good from the perspective of removal of a master warrior general that indeed kill hundreds of US soldiers, hundreds if not thousands of others outside Iran and over 1,000 Iranians just a few months ago...
    So, Sam, by your own logic, it would then be okay for just about any nation state in the Middle East and several in the Far East to assassinate George W. Bush, Barack Obama or Donald Trump ─ or any of their respective vice-presidents and their respective Secretaries of Defense ─ because of the millions of Iraqi civilians who've died because of the instability in their country since the US invasion of Iraq, the systematic torture of prisoners of war and terrorism suspects, and loads of other gross violations of the UN Declaration of Human Rights? And I suppose it would then also be perfectly okay to carry out this assassination by way of a drone strike on US American soil ─ say, at a civilian US American airport?

    By the way, did you know that George W. Bush can never set foot in Europe again? You see, over here, he has been found guilty as a war criminal and there is an outstanding warrant within the European Union for his arrest.
    That's interesting, do you have a source link for that?
    If you are referring to my last paragraph, then no, I'm afraid not. The Bush Jr. administration ended 11 years and, for myself, several computers ago.
    Apparently it was a meme, but with some legs as to protests and concerns for Bush's safety.
    Are George W. Bush, Dick Cheney unable to visit Europe due to threat of arrest?

    "We're all bozos on this bus"

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    The New York Times (Jan 13, 2020)

    Iran’s Grim Economy Limits Its Willingness to Confront the U.S.

    Iran is caught in a wretched economic crisis. Jobs are scarce. Prices for food and other necessities are skyrocketing. The economy is rapidly shrinking. Iranians are increasingly disgusted.

    Crippling sanctions imposed by the Trump administration have severed Iran’s access to international markets, decimating the economy, which is now contracting at an alarming 9.5 percent annual rate, the International Monetary Fund estimated. Oil exports were effectively zero in December, according to Oxford Economics, as the sanctions have prevented sales, even though smugglers have transported unknown volumes.

    On Tuesday, pressure intensified as Britain, France and Germany served notice that they would formally trigger negotiations with Iran toward forcing it back into compliance with a 2015 nuclear deal — a step that could ultimately lead to the imposition of United Nations sanctions.

    The bleak economy appears to be tempering the willingness of Iran to escalate hostilities with the United States, its leaders cognizant that war could profoundly worsen national fortunes. In recent months, public anger over joblessness, economic anxiety and corruption has emerged as a potentially existential threat to Iran’s hard-line regime.

    Only a week ago, such sentiments had been redirected by outrage over the Trump administration’s Jan. 3 killing of Iran’s top military commander, Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani. But protests flared anew over the weekend in Tehran, and then continued on Monday, after the government’s astonishing admission that it was — despite three days of denial — responsible for shooting down a Ukrainian jetliner.

    The demonstrations were most pointedly an expression of contempt for the regime’s cover-up following its downing of the Ukrainian jet, which killed all 176 people on board. But the fury in the streets resonated as a rebuke for broader grievances — diminishing livelihoods, financial anxiety and the sense that the regime is at best impotent in the face of formidable troubles.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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