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Thread: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    I don't believe that Iran could successfully take on the USA. The b2 bomber, the f22 + f35 fighters would make short order of Iran's defenses and offensive capabilities.

    The real prospect that deters the USA from attacking is the collateral damage of such an action. Iran could probably inflict enough harm to its neighbours that the human and asset losses would be large. So, the sane position is restraint unless absolutely necessary.

    This same truth applies to North Korea, China and Russia. The USA could take them all, but at what cost?
    The USA would like to think they can take them all on, but, war game simulations at RAND shows the USA “gets its ass handed to it” by Russia and China — in almost all scenarios. The study showed that while F35 might be dominant once it gets in the air. Most of them get taken out by Russia’s hypersonic missiles before they even lift off the runway.

    ==============
    America gets its ‘ass handed to it’ in WW3 simulations: U.S. forces are defeated by Russia and China in almost all scenarios, analysts warn
    Nonprofit global policy think tank RAND performs simulated war scenarios to test how the US would fare against other leading military superpowers
    • The simulations cover battle on land, at sea, in the air, space and cyberspace
    • Analysts warned last week that the US loses to Russia or China in most scenarios
    • However, they said it would take just $24billion annually to improve outcomes
    • That's about three percent of the $750billion defense budget proposed for 2

    The US may not stand a chance against Russia and China should World War III break out, advanced warfare analysts have warned.

    'In our games, when we fight Russia and China, "blue" gets its ass handed to it,' researcher David Ochmanek explained at the Center for a New American Security on Thursday, Breaking Defense first reported. American forces are generally color-coded in blue in the simulations.

    Nonprofit global policy think tank RAND has been performing simulated war scenarios, often sponsored by the Pentagon, to test how American forces would fare against the world's other leading military superpowers.

    'We lose a lot of people. We lose a lot of equipment. We usually fail to achieve our objective of preventing aggression by the adversary,' Ochmanek added.

    Though hypothetical, the simulated games warn that the world order America has fought to protect for more than a century could be at risk.

    The simulated conflicts take place in all five domains of battle: land, sea, air, space and cyberspace.

    Accord to RAND, 'red' aggressor forces frequently burn US military bases to the ground, sink warships and take out cyber systems.

    Robert Work, a former deputy secretary of defense and experienced war-gamer, explained that America's F-35 fighter jet is the most advanced of its kind in the sky, but is vulnerable on the tarmac.

    'In every case I know of, the F-35 rules the sky when it's in the sky,' Work said Thursday. 'But it gets killed on the ground in large numbers.'

    Last week, RAND analysts revealed that in scenario after scenario, the US has suffered severe losses despite spending nearly $1trillion annually on the military, exceeding the spending of any other country by more than double.

    Work also warned that US military bases across Europe and the Pacific are not equipped to handle the fire they would face in a high-end conflict.

    Work and Ochmanek both said China focus on cyberspace with 'system destruction warfare', which involves targeting US communications satellites, command-and-control systems, and wireless networks.

    'The brain and the nervous system that connects all of these pieces is suppressed, if not shattered,' Ochmanek said.

    The Chinese would 'attack the American battle network at all levels, relentlessly,' Work warned, adding that 'they practice it all the time'.

    'These are the things that the war games show over and over and over, so we need a new American way of war without question,' Work said.
    Work and Ochmanek's bleak observations mirror the findings of an assessment carried out last fall by the National Defense Strategy Commission, a bipartisan panel of experts selected by Congress to evaluate America's National Defense Strategy.

    'If the United States had to fight Russia in a Baltic contingency or China in a war over Taiwan, Americans could face a decisive military defeat,' the Commission said in a November report.

    The report highlighted how the US has lost its military edge as rival powers, namely Russia and China, have developed a 'suite of advanced capabilities heretofore possessed only by the United States'.

    It came to the alarming conclusion that the US is 'at greater risk than at any time in decades'.

    However, RAND's findings aren't all doom and gloom.

    Analysts say it would take just $24billion to improve outcomes - which is about three percent of the $750billion defense budget President Donald Trump will propose for 2020.

    The Air Force had approached RAND to develop a plan to fix the problems behind the poor outcomes.

    To his surprise, Ochmanek said: 'We found it impossible to spend more than $8billion a year' on necessary improvement.


    The $24billion number comes from tripling that $8billion to cover the Army and the Navy.

    Ochmanek said that adding $24billion to the budget 'for the next five years would be a good expenditure' to prepare the US for World War III, which he predicts is at least 10 to 20 years down the road.
    =========

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    On a lighter note, this is very funny.


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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    RAND corp is a CFR and trilat comm mouthpiece that fear mongers to wring military spending money out of the US Congress. Any extravagant claim on defense weakness should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

    The USA has, I believe, more than ten aircraft carrier naval groups when each of russia and China might be able to scrounge together 1. The USA has stealth bombers and fighters that neither of its opponents could match. The USA has military bases surrounding both of its opponents whom don't have the reverse. The USA has a form of ballistic missile defense of which neither of its opponents has. The USA has widespread military and economic alliances that also surround their opponents. How can anyone seriously consider that these opponents could win a conflict?

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    It might be about the will to fight, or even the ability to fight. American tech is integrated to a high degree and depends on very vulnerable pieces of technology, easily defeated. That's probably why the fix is so cheap. Just need to harden the targets or otherwise render them less easily destroyed.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Different groups of people live in Iran, that has always been the case. Regardless of belief, whether Sunni or Shiite, it is the different peoples that are divided. I mean if you split Iran you can see it more precisely. From the border to just before Tehran there are Kurds, Turks, Azerbaijanis, Armenians, Kazakhs. Ostan Fars then begins from Tehran, the Fars the Persians. Although I have to say that Tehran itself is also divided. Many Armenians, Azerbaijanis, Turks etc.

    I personally think that this could have as much influence on politics. This country is a mixed people, which is why it is difficult to form a real government. Just considering how many languages ​​are spoken in Iran is a problem in itself. Farsi, Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic, Pashtu, Ordu etc.

    Even if there should be a coup and the US invade. Who should rule this country? Monarchy again? Oh no, I don't think so. If you take a closer look at what has happened since the revolution, you will notice that all those in power only thought of themselves. In their wealth, that will never change.

    Assuming the US succeeds in overthrowing the government, taking over and occupying the country. Ok, then what? This mixed race all want to have their own territories. So who or how should a government be formed. the belief that the Arabs put over Iran has destroyed the country. Then there would be the ex-monarch Waliat. This brainless prince who is broke is like a beggar. What can it do? I mean, I haven't heard a word of it since the attack on Soleymani. You maybe? He will never rule, he is unable to do so. A democracy like in Germany, USA etc. will never come about...
    Iyakum
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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Iyakum (here)
    Different groups of people live in Iran, that has always been the case. Regardless of belief, whether Sunni or Shiite, it is the different peoples that are divided. I mean if you split Iran you can see it more precisely. From the border to just before Tehran there are Kurds, Turks, Azerbaijanis, Armenians, Kazakhs. Ostan Fars then begins from Tehran, the Fars the Persians. Although I have to say that Tehran itself is also divided. Many Armenians, Azerbaijanis, Turks etc.

    I personally think that this could have as much influence on politics. This country is a mixed people, which is why it is difficult to form a real government. Just considering how many languages ​​are spoken in Iran is a problem in itself. Farsi, Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic, Pashtu, Ordu etc.

    Even if there should be a coup and the US invade. Who should rule this country? Monarchy again? Oh no, I don't think so. If you take a closer look at what has happened since the revolution, you will notice that all those in power only thought of themselves. In their wealth, that will never change.

    Assuming the US succeeds in overthrowing the government, taking over and occupying the country. Ok, then what? This mixed race all want to have their own territories. So who or how should a government be formed. the belief that the Arabs put over Iran has destroyed the country. Then there would be the ex-monarch Waliat. This brainless prince who is broke is like a beggar. What can it do? I mean, I haven't heard a word of it since the attack on Soleymani. You maybe? He will never rule, he is unable to do so. A democracy like in Germany, USA etc. will never come about...
    I shared this article in another thread

    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    Without Ethnic Minorities, Regime Change in Iran Will Remain a Distant Hope

    I'd like to point out that I tend to make a distinction in my mind between the Islamic Republic (current regime), Iran the country, and the Persian people and culture.
    I don't necessarily equate them as the "same."

    I had not yet made the distinction of the ethnic minorities within Iran and the role they play in Iranian politics.

    This article expands my thinking on this topic.
    Trump is tweeting directly to the Iranian people in their language.

    There's a lot of talk among a wide range of people with a wide range of views on Twitter, that he, or rather the present administration, have engaged all the ethnic groups and various freedom fighter groups. with the idea not to take over their country but rather to support them in their efforts for their liberation for their country and their culture.

    If you click through the article you'll see a video about the Khomeini revolution and the events leading up to it.



    The article also mentions that one of the ways that Khomeini consolidated his power was that he conducted a 2 year cultural revolution.

    This is a consistent pattern in Islamic take-over of other nations.

    It's also a consistent pattern in the Marxist take-over of other nations.

    In China's cultural revolution Mao Zedong used the understanding of the rebellious nature of youth between the ages of 12 - 16 and galvanized their energy to take out his rivals within China.

    If you know the pattern, you can see the early developments of this happening in the present day with the climate strikes.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    The article also mentions that one of the ways that Khomeini consolidated his power was that he conducted a 2 year cultural revolution.

    This is a consistent pattern in Islamic take-over of other nations.

    It's also a consistent pattern in the Marxist take-over of other nations.
    Nice fairy tale.

    What about the ways that the Shah came into power in Iran in 1953? An "Islamic take-over"??
    What about the take-over of a democratic government in Chile in 1973 by Pinochet?

    There is a completely different pattern of overthrowing democratic governments by fascist regimes ... instigated by the US.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by silvanelf (here)
    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    The article also mentions that one of the ways that Khomeini consolidated his power was that he conducted a 2 year cultural revolution.

    This is a consistent pattern in Islamic take-over of other nations.

    It's also a consistent pattern in the Marxist take-over of other nations.
    Nice fairy tale.

    What about the ways that the Shah came into power in Iran in 1953? An "Islamic take-over"??
    What about the take-over of a democratic government in Chile in 1973 by Pinochet?

    There is a completely different pattern of overthrowing democratic governments by fascist regimes ... instigated by the US.
    I agree, both points of view are valid.

    I am curious though, did you read the article I linked above, re: the role the ethnic minorities play in Iranian politics?
    Last edited by edina; 13th January 2020 at 17:03.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by rgray222 (here)
    Quote Posted by Iyakum (here)
    the only thing that occurs to me why Trump is hesitating [attacking Iran] is the elections. He needs a powerful argument to be re-elected. Trump would have enough time to stir up fear among the people of the United States. How Bush did it.
    I don't believe that Trump needs a powerful argument to be reelected.

    Trump has been crystal clear before he was elected that he does not believe that the United States should not be in the middle east and that his goal is to end the wars not expand them. It would be a far more powerful reelection tool for Trump to get the USA out of the wars that Bush started and Obama expanded.

    It is not very hard to understand Trump on all issues. I don't necessarily agree with all his policies but I find his straightforwardness and honesty refreshing. The problem is that most people don't actually listen to Trump they listen to the mainstream media interpreting his words. Hence the constant claims of fake, false and misleading press coverage.

    I am not defending or condemning Trump, just giving you the view from my perspective.
    I do not think you understand the government of the United States and what Trump is fully capable of doing right now as the CEO of the Executive Branch.

    He could, if he decided, immediately withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan. FULL STOP.
    He has the complete legal authority to do so.

    If he does not do this, it is because he has chosen not to.

    This is precisely why I dont think the Q things should be public. It is this kind of thinking.

    Literally you are arguing that trump wants to do something he has the full legal authority to do but cant because reasons. . .



    He has not been clear about being anti war in the middle east. He literally tweeted that he is more of a hawk than Bolton. Im not reading MSM, I am watching the actions and policies being promulgated( you know like concentration camps on the border for Asylum seekers).

    Why can the Commander in CHief under the NDAA not withdraw our troops?

    It is entirely two different things to not be able to do something because the republicans and trump base are actually pro war and pro imperialism and to not be able to do it because he does not have the legal authority.

    The president has the legal authority to withdraw RIGHT NOW. FULL STOP.

    But you are right that doing so would un mask that many are actually pro war and empire. . .

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Thank you Praxis,

    Before I respond to your comment, I wonder if you read the article I shared in my comment?

    If you remember I shared this in context of the conversation about the people of Iran, Shia, Sunni, and I had hoped to bring information here about the ethnic populations in Iran.

    It's one of the more balanced articles I've read on the topic.

    While, yes, it was originally shared, in the Q thread, and in context of a conversation there.

    It honestly has nothing to with Q. Nor does any other part of my comment.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    RAND corp is a CFR and trilat comm mouthpiece that fear mongers to wring military spending money out of the US Congress. Any extravagant claim on defense weakness should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

    The USA has, I believe, more than ten aircraft carrier naval groups when each of russia and China might be able to scrounge together 1. The USA has stealth bombers and fighters that neither of its opponents could match. The USA has military bases surrounding both of its opponents whom don't have the reverse. The USA has a form of ballistic missile defense of which neither of its opponents has. The USA has widespread military and economic alliances that also surround their opponents. How can anyone seriously consider that these opponents could win a conflict?
    You should read some articles about the development of hypersonic missiles. Here are two diametrically opposing points of view. Emphasis is mine.

    Quote In the eternal competition between offense and defense for military dominance, the offense is winning. Russia has been testing a hypersonic cruise missile with a speed above 6,000 miles per hour that can be used to deliver nuclear or conventional warheads against targets at sea or on land. The U.S. military at present has no defense against the weapon.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenth.../#2e978f4262c0

    Quote The question that is now facing policy makers in Washington, Beijing, London, and elsewhere is whether and how this deployment reshapes strategic stability.

    The answer, perhaps counterintuitive amid the hand-wringing over Moscow’s announcement, is not much. In reality, the systemic consequences of hypersonic missiles will be minimal to nil, and the narrative that Washington is “behind” in a hypersonic arms race fails to take into account the different strategic challenges facing China, Russia, and the United States—not least that the United States need not overcome an adversary’s missile defense systems.
    https://thebulletin.org/2020/01/hype...-nowhere-fast/

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    Thank you Praxis,

    Before I respond to your comment, I wonder if you read the article I shared in my comment?

    If you remember I shared this in context of the conversation about the people of Iran, Shia, Sunni, and I had hoped to bring information here about the ethnic populations in Iran.

    It's one of the more balanced articles I've read on the topic.

    While, yes, it was originally shared, in the Q thread, and in context of a conversation there.

    It honestly has nothing to with Q. Nor does any other part of my comment.

    The king of kings is actually a title that comes from the Achaemenid Empire from one of the first truly great world empires. Many of the great persian names that the common man could conjure would be Cyrus the Great or Darius or Xerxes.

    One might even recall the final Darius the 3rd as he was the one who fell to a person you may or may not know: Alexander. Yeah, that Alexander.

    But that was a short lived one, as He fought all the way to India. Vini Vidi Vici it all, but then died as he was making his way home.

    So this left the empire in the hands of the Companions of Alexander of Interest to us here is Selecus. This last a while until Rome.

    Rome then had back and forths with the Sasanian Empire, which were the New King of Kings(and called the Neo Persian Empire.

    Which then is over taken by the Rashidun Caliphate, which is Abu Bakr(the guy after Mohammed), Umar, Uthman, and then Ali( son in law of Mohammed).

    But that falls apart into the Ummayyad Caliphate. Which then falls apart into Abbasid caliphate. Which then is falls apart into the Fatimid Caliphate, then into the Seljuk Empire(which is the first time that Persian are running persia since Islam).

    Which then later became the Khwarazmian dynasty who pissed off Ghengis Khan by murdering his emissaries which then got them all murdered.

    After that came the Timurids( you know Timerlane) but that also fell apart after he died so it became the Safavid Dynasty. After that it became the Afsharid Empire.

    After them we finally get to what is closer to what we know of the modern Iran of the Qajar "Sublime State of Persia". Which is then overthrown by the Pahlavi Dynasty in 1921. This then is the family that is finally removed in 1979 to then get us to the modern state of Iran.


    I too like to take all of what I VERY briefly outlined by saying: "On February 1, 1979, Ayatollah Khomeini returned to Iran from exile and, 10 days later, 2,500 thousand years of monarchy came to an end. "

    That links to https://www.alimentarium.org/en/maga...ive-party-ever as the reference on that 2500 year dynasty ending.

    To answer your question directly Edina. Yes I briefly perused the article you posted. But as you can see I was less than impressed on just the first sentence.

    But it also is irrelevant to the discussion IMO. The ethnic diversity of Iran is not what this thread was about.

    This thread is about destroying the illusion that trump supporter live in that he is pro peace and anti deep state. He is clearly pushing the cabal, or whatever name you put on them, agenda and you can see it in his not immediately withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan. Or closing Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Or releasing the JFK files. Or stopping the CIA. Or truth about 9-11, or about aliens, etc.

    What are the win conditions in those countries?

    I want to ask you Edina.

    What are the two countries on either side of Iran(yes I know there is more than just two, but which two countries stick out to. Hint I have mentioned them both already)?
    Last edited by Praxis; 13th January 2020 at 20:17.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Here's an interesting interview of historian Dan Kovalik ─ 52 minutes long ─ by Abby Martin on the matter, detailing much of the cultural and strategic historical background...



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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    This thread is about destroying the illusion that trump supporter live in that he is pro peace and anti deep state.
    Thank you for clarifying the purpose of this thread.

    Because I have been reading so many different points of view in this thread, I had missed it's purpose was to prove a point.

    I thought it was about expanding and deepening our understanding of the dynamic situation in Iran.

    I'll read deeper on your comments provided above, and see if I have anything of positive value to add to the conversation.

    I sincerely misunderstood the purpose of this thread.
    Last edited by edina; 13th January 2020 at 21:48.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    This thread is about destroying the illusion that trump supporter live in that he is pro peace and anti deep state.
    Thank you for clarifying the purpose of this thread.

    Because I have been reading so many different points of view in this thread, I had missed it's purpose was to prove a point.

    I thought it was about expanding and deepening our understanding of the dynamic situation in Iran.

    I'll read deeper on your comments provided above, and see if I have anything of positive value to add to the conversation.

    I sincerely misunderstood the purpose of this thread.
    Wow - I missed that purpose too. Perhaps the title of the thread should be edited to be made clearer.
    "We're all bozos on this bus"

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by edina (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    This thread is about destroying the illusion that trump supporter live in that he is pro peace and anti deep state.
    Thank you for clarifying the purpose of this thread.

    Because I have been reading so many different points of view in this thread, I had missed it's purpose was to prove a point.

    I thought it was about expanding and deepening our understanding of the dynamic situation in Iran.

    I'll read deeper on your comments provided above, and see if I have anything of positive value to add to the conversation.

    I sincerely misunderstood the purpose of this thread.


    Well this is the crux of the thing Edina. The action that this thread is about is the point. It proves the point.

    I am not proving this point. Trump is with action and policy are proving the point. This is the crux of the issue.

    You are trying to flip this and play the outrage that you couldnt see my agenda like I pulled something on you.

    My agenda is never hidden. If you have been around you can see this in my posts. Generally, I am anti war and murder. Trump clearly is not.

    These actions and many others prove it. His inaction in many ways also show this (not immediately withdrawing from our occupations like he said in the campaign, like obama said . . . ).

    These actions that the admin takes and doesnt take are the point Edina. They make my point for me. I am just pointing them out.

    I really enjoy the "I sincerely misunderstood the purpose of this thread" and this victim framing passive aggressive high grounding.

    This is why I dont engage the Q people. They never address the issues I bring up.

    Edina, You have not mentioned the occupations which I reference. Why is this?
    Why do you not hold Trump to this point if you are anti occupation and anti war? They are kind of a big deal at trillions of dollars and almost two decades and thousand of soldiers with PTSD and lost limbs(not to mention the death and destruction of the Iraqi and Afghani people and land themselves!)

    Why do we let the idea go that Trump is both fighting the deep state but paralayzed to act as the Executive Branch CEO?

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  33. Link to Post #277
    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    This thread is about destroying the illusion that trump supporter live in that he is pro peace and anti deep state.
    I don't see the facts supporting this view, even if the purpose of some who posted in this thread has been to push this view.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    I really enjoy the "I sincerely misunderstood the purpose of this thread" and this victim framing passive aggressive high grounding.

    When I read certain posts, I see Nurse Ratchet smiling at me, speaking in dulcet tones while preparing me for a lobotomy.

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  36. Link to Post #279
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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    getting too convoluted.
    Last edited by AutumnW; 14th January 2020 at 02:26.

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    Default Re: The United States kills Quds Commander Qasem Soleimani

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    This thread is about destroying the illusion that trump supporter live in that he is pro peace and anti deep state.
    I don't see the facts supporting this view, even if the purpose of some who posted in this thread has been to push this view.
    Opening post by Praxis, the creator of the thread:


    America just declared war on Iran.

    We shall see if they accept.

    So much for Trump being the anti war anti imperialism candidate.

    The people who look the other way on this war mongering disgust me.

    Welcome to the new year.


    In response to this, Sammy


    Because I have been reading so many different points of view in this thread, I had missed it's purpose was to prove a point.

    I thought it was about expanding and deepening our understanding of the dynamic situation in Ira
    n.

    It is expressed by Edina as if the two are mutually exclusive. It's an indirect way of diminishing an opponent or arguing their point, without being directly confrontational. Capiche?
    Actually, the first thing I did after Praxis clarified the purpose of the thread, and it is his thread, was go back and read his first post to see what I missed.

    That's why I wrote my response.

    I honestly misunderstood the purpose of the thread.

    If fact, if I had understood that it was the purpose as he had clarified, then I probably wouldn't have participated to begin with.

    I prefer to engage in win/win conversations.

    What he describes is a win/lose conversation.

    And I meant what said in my response to Praxis, regardless of your personal attack on me.
    Last edited by edina; 14th January 2020 at 01:36.

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