+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Thread: The Messiah Complex

  1. Link to Post #1
    Avalon Member peterpam's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th June 2012
    Posts
    1,777
    Thanks
    17,618
    Thanked 9,862 times in 1,711 posts

    Exclamation The Messiah Complex

    Moderator note from Bill:

    This started off with members' comments about Max Igan's latest video, posted here, in which he revealed himself to be a Flat Earther, and somehow a 'chosen' one.

    In my reply below (post #3), I suggested that The Messiah Complex might be an interesting topic to discuss. So I copied three posts to start the new thread here.

    ~~~

    I watched the Max Igan video and he is pretty manic. Can anyone that has watched this determine if he believes he is the "one" that he was talking about? It doesn't seem like he is drug influenced. I definitely feel he is very sincere. It may be that he did have some sort of download of information and he is having a hard time articulating it and he is manic from being sleep deprived. If he believes, or has been told he is the "one", could it be someone or something is trying to influence him negatively? Some kind of mind control? I wonder if he has a history of manic episodes where he is delusional?
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 19th January 2020 at 13:21.

  2. The Following 18 Users Say Thank You to peterpam For This Post:

    Agape (19th January 2020), anandacate (19th January 2020), Anka (19th January 2020), Aragorn (19th January 2020), Ayt (19th January 2020), Bill Ryan (19th January 2020), Billy (19th January 2020), Caliban (19th January 2020), Ernie Nemeth (19th January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), HaveBlue (21st January 2020), Ken (19th January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), RunningDeer (21st January 2020), Sammy (19th January 2020), Sophocles (19th January 2020), Tintin (21st January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020)

  3. Link to Post #2
    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th January 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Age
    61
    Posts
    3,679
    Thanks
    15,663
    Thanked 21,655 times in 3,443 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    It's called 'Messiah Complex'. It is prevalent in today's world. I personally know four different people who believed this about themselves at one point or another. We've also had a few of them here, one quite recently. It's a clear sign the 'message' was improperly deciphered.

    Max is mistaken. He'll tell us so soon...or disappear from the public eye. That's the MO of this psychosis.

  4. The Following 18 Users Say Thank You to Ernie Nemeth For This Post:

    Agape (19th January 2020), anandacate (19th January 2020), Anchor (29th January 2020), Anka (19th January 2020), Aragorn (19th January 2020), Ayt (19th January 2020), Bill Ryan (19th January 2020), Billy (19th January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), HaveBlue (21st January 2020), Ken (19th January 2020), peterpam (21st January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), Sammy (19th January 2020), silvanelf (19th January 2020), Sophocles (19th January 2020), Tintin (21st January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020)

  5. Link to Post #3
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    22,103
    Thanks
    79,095
    Thanked 277,616 times in 20,578 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    It's called 'Messiah Complex'. It is prevalent in today's world.
    So true. When it hits someone, most everyone else can see it except the person affected. And there are quite a few in the so-called alt community who keep getting the virus, again and again. And one or two are chronically long-term sick with it.

    The Messiah Complex may well be worth a thread in itself. The 'virus' has to prey on a dormant weakness, which I strongly suspect is a weak ego (not a strong one)... so it's constantly in need of being inflated by others' admiration. (And self-admiration in the mirror, too.)

  6. The Following 20 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Agape (19th January 2020), anandacate (19th January 2020), Anka (19th January 2020), Aragorn (19th January 2020), Ayt (19th January 2020), Billy (19th January 2020), Ernie Nemeth (19th January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), Ivanhoe (19th January 2020), Ken (19th January 2020), leavesoftrees (23rd January 2020), peterpam (21st January 2020), Philippe (19th January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), Sammy (19th January 2020), Sophocles (19th January 2020), Star Mariner (19th January 2020), Tintin (21st January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020), Yoda (19th January 2020)

  7. Link to Post #4
    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th January 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Age
    61
    Posts
    3,679
    Thanks
    15,663
    Thanked 21,655 times in 3,443 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    Okay. New thread.

    I'll start by saying I know this one intimately, as I have had this pyschosis a few times in my life.

    The first time I was only twelve or so. I had a dream in which I was told I would be a priest. I was so scared by this dream that within two years I would give up my religion.

    The second time I was picked to be Christ in the annual Passion play at our school. I got the same message - that I'd been chosen.

    And the third time a friend of a friend, whom I had never met, claimed she had been told I was the messiah of the second coming. She was given a download 'for my eyes only', which she made me swear never to show anyone. I have it still somewhere. It is the 'true' historical record of Jesus' life!

    (by the way, two days later a policeman called me and said that this same person had just called them to say I had abused her child - whom I never even met! But they knew of her psychosis, believing she was the mother of Christ. Yup. No kidding)

    Each time it happened to me I at first was astonished and felt like this explained my crazy life. But each time the next thought was...DANGER! I never ignore that voice when it uses that tone.

  8. The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to Ernie Nemeth For This Post:

    anandacate (19th January 2020), Aragorn (19th January 2020), Arcturian108 (21st January 2020), Bill Ryan (19th January 2020), Billy (19th January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), Intranuclear (22nd January 2020), Ken (19th January 2020), Krist (19th January 2020), Meryl (22nd January 2020), peterpam (21st January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), RunningDeer (21st January 2020), Sammy (19th January 2020), Sophocles (19th January 2020), Tintin (21st January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020)

  9. Link to Post #5
    UK Avalon Member Star Mariner's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th November 2011
    Posts
    1,690
    Thanks
    9,454
    Thanked 10,886 times in 1,611 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    Interesting Bill, I've never thought of there being a weak or strong ego before. I always looked at the ego as being either large or small - the small ego belonging to the more developed individual, one who is less susceptible to vain or boastful pursuits. If weak/strong does come into it, maybe it's a different metric, one that defines the influence of the ego (whatever its actual size), meaning you could have someone with a strong small ego (humble, altruistic), or a weak small ego (unassured, submissive) -- or at the other extreme a weak large ego (arrogant, narcissistic).

    If I was to hazard a guess, the messiah complex would most likely take root in those with large (and indeed weak) egos, where there is a need to feed, as you say, on the admiration of others. Which leads to delusions of grandeur, which leads eventually to psychosis.

    As a guide: to gauge the quality of the message, it might be helpful to first gauge the size and quality of the ego in him or her supplying the message.



    "Only the true Messiah would deny his divinity."
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

  10. The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Star Mariner For This Post:

    Anchor (29th January 2020), Aragorn (19th January 2020), Arcturian108 (21st January 2020), Bill Ryan (19th January 2020), Ernie Nemeth (19th January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), Ivanhoe (19th January 2020), Ken (19th January 2020), Meryl (22nd January 2020), peterpam (21st January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), RunningDeer (21st January 2020), Tintin (21st January 2020), Valerie Villars (23rd January 2020)

  11. Link to Post #6
    UK Avalon Member Clear Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    8th September 2015
    Age
    49
    Posts
    905
    Thanks
    1,710
    Thanked 4,744 times in 853 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    Quote Behind the New Age pleasantries, this messianic idea of being the anointed one, saving the world, is insidious. Stop. The Teaching is universal, and there are many teachers, and they are always already where they need to be. In the Understanding it is known that the world doesn't need any special message from any special teacher. That's all being taken care of. The dream in Consciousness is unfolding perfectly, and personality cults around popular and well funded spiritual teachers are part of that unfolding; but not in the way they, or their devotees, might think.

    There's an amazing amount of this going on, here in the dream. The blind leading the blind. Watching this nonsense, realizing they take it seriously, I can't help laughing because of course the question arises: Who? Who Cares? Who thinks it's important, who is organizing? It's all concepts and doesn't exist! The only one who cares, who is keeping track, who gives importance to a role, is the thinking mind, the ego, the apparent individual who still thinks he or she is there to be awakened or to carry a message; and the incongruity between this and the subject matter is so huge that it just makes for terrific entertainment.

    From : David Carse's Perfect Brilliant Stillness
    Ah, with respect to such Messianic Delusions I'd suggest it typically stems from some kind of Egoic Inflation probably as the result of an extraordinary Meditative experience (or perhaps drug-induced) eh ?


  12. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Clear Light For This Post:

    Aragorn (19th January 2020), Bill Ryan (19th January 2020), ClearWater (19th January 2020), Ernie Nemeth (19th January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), Ken (19th January 2020), peterpam (21st January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), RunningDeer (21st January 2020), Tintin (21st January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020), XelNaga (21st January 2020)

  13. Link to Post #7
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    22,103
    Thanks
    79,095
    Thanked 277,616 times in 20,578 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    Interesting Bill, I've never thought of there being a weak or strong ego before. I always looked at the ego as being either large or small - the small ego belonging to the more developed individual, one who is less susceptible to vain or boastful pursuits. If weak/strong does come into it, maybe it's a different metric, one that defines the influence of the ego (whatever its actual size), meaning you could have someone with a strong small ego (humble, altruistic), or a weak small ego (unassured, submissive) -- or at the other extreme a weak large ego (arrogant, narcissistic).
    Yes. We could use David Wilcock as a case study. (Really.)

    His need to constantly inflate himself publicly (how many times have we heard this in his interviews and presentations?) reveals that he's actually not at all confident, constantly needing to remind others (and himself!) that he's a "best-selling author" — and all the rest ad nauseam.

    It's like a kid showing off to his friends. "Look at me!!" Children who do that are trying to develop their strong, healthy sense of self, because their ego and self-esteem haven't matured yet. That's all very normal.

    But when an adult does that, they're past the early developmental stage, and it's too late. They have a flaw that's now set in stone, unless there's good counseling work done, or exceptional life circumstances intervene to cause rapid learning in extremis.

    Anyone with a strong, secure sense of identity (what's known as ego-strength) doesn't have to do that. It's a little like if you're doing a 2,000 mile road trip in your car, you don't need to stop at every service station to check or reinflate your tires. You know they're in good shape, and are holding their pressure perfectly as designed. So you have no attention on that.

    A more abnormal example is the person who has to wash their hands 50 times a day. That's an anxiety neurosis, and they're trying to self-medicate. But doing what they do never relieves it.

    So when someone's ego is in that vulnerable state as an adult, they're prey to delusions of grandeur, or (sometimes) to joining a cult — so that even if they're not the chosen one, at least they're in a chosen group.

    To bring this back to whatever journey Max Igan is on, that's how come Flat Earthism itself is a kind of cult. Because those trapped in that big sticky cobweb all feel they're somehow a privileged minority group with special knowledge that other poor humans just don't have. That helps them all to feel special.

    And — discuss! To how many dozens of areas, and tens of thousands of people, does this apply to in the Alt Community in general?
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 19th January 2020 at 14:57.

  14. The Following 28 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    anandacate (19th January 2020), Aragorn (19th January 2020), Ayt (19th January 2020), ByTheNorthernSea (21st January 2020), Clear Light (19th January 2020), Ernie Nemeth (19th January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), happyuk (19th January 2020), HaveBlue (21st January 2020), Ivanhoe (19th January 2020), Ken (19th January 2020), leavesoftrees (23rd January 2020), mokosh (19th January 2020), peterpam (21st January 2020), Philippe (20th January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), Retief (19th January 2020), RunningDeer (21st January 2020), Sammy (20th January 2020), Soda (21st January 2020), Sophocles (19th January 2020), Star Mariner (19th January 2020), Stinamaria (19th January 2020), Tintin (21st January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020), Wind (21st January 2020), XelNaga (21st January 2020), Yoda (19th January 2020)

  15. Link to Post #8
    UK Avalon Member Star Mariner's Avatar
    Join Date
    15th November 2011
    Posts
    1,690
    Thanks
    9,454
    Thanked 10,886 times in 1,611 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    There's a difference with us I think. For one, whereas I do personally feel very privileged to be aware of things that many others aren't, and to have experienced many things that others haven't, I don't feel at all special. To begin with, ask an abductee if they feel special. I dare you.

    Sometimes seeing what you see, and knowing what you know, is lonely and sad - it can be a burden, particularly when you look out on so much rank ignorance, particularly of the spiritual.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

  16. The Following 23 Users Say Thank You to Star Mariner For This Post:

    anandacate (19th January 2020), Aragorn (19th January 2020), Arcturian108 (21st January 2020), Bill Ryan (19th January 2020), ByTheNorthernSea (21st January 2020), Clear Light (19th January 2020), Ernie Nemeth (19th January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), happyuk (19th January 2020), Intranuclear (22nd January 2020), Ivanhoe (19th January 2020), Jayke (19th January 2020), justntime2learn (21st January 2020), Ken (19th January 2020), Keyholder (21st January 2020), Meryl (22nd January 2020), mokosh (19th January 2020), peterpam (21st January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), RunningDeer (21st January 2020), Tintin (21st January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020), XelNaga (21st January 2020)

  17. Link to Post #9
    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th March 2010
    Posts
    4,435
    Thanks
    10,294
    Thanked 18,141 times in 3,489 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    It’s a funny one. But there’s something important I’ve observed after many years of spiritual practice and deeper interactions with fellow spiritual practitioners.
    It seems that “messianic complex” is a stage of psycho-spiritual evolution we all are bound to path through on the steep ascensions of samsara.

    It’s a fairly advanced stage but on behalf of my fellow spiritual seekers of all kinds, more people get there and through than those who ever mention it in open.
    It’s f course: very serious and responsible stage of “crazy bodhisattva”.
    In itself it’s harmless realisation of the “foundation” of ourselves as original beings.

    Many spiritual paths describe the same stage as culminating point.

    But a true self-less seeker does not, should not be content with his spiritual self at that point,
    seeing the true gem in truth that are impartial and benevolent to the whole, truth can be found only if principle of spiritual and physical elitism is abandoned.
    It’s a way to walk, not a button that can fix it all.

    Back to the point ,it helps to imagine nay realise that each of the 7 billions of petals of life flower of humanity has the same potential that will fully express itself as unique pattern in its own time and space if given the life option.


    I even think that 2000 years AD we have many Christs and Marias in our genes, the same could be said of the rest ..as consciousness evolves we try to incorporate these consciousnesses into our daily lives seamlessly yet in new ways.
    And there are new more evolved conscious entities being born to this world as we talk ..

    Call it evolution 😀

  18. The Following 21 Users Say Thank You to Agape For This Post:

    anandacate (19th January 2020), Aragorn (19th January 2020), Arcturian108 (21st January 2020), Ayt (19th January 2020), Bill Ryan (21st January 2020), Clear Light (19th January 2020), Ernie Nemeth (19th January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), happyuk (19th January 2020), Jayke (19th January 2020), justntime2learn (21st January 2020), Ken (19th January 2020), Meryl (22nd January 2020), onawah (21st January 2020), peterpam (21st January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), RunningDeer (21st January 2020), Tintin (21st January 2020), Valerie Villars (21st January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020), XelNaga (21st January 2020)

  19. Link to Post #10
    Avalon Member enfoldedblue's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th December 2010
    Posts
    963
    Thanks
    3,547
    Thanked 8,037 times in 926 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    Here is a very relevant excerpt from the first article I wrote for Wake Up World--- Discernment – Navigating The Spiritual Minefield https://wakeup-world.com/2015/05/15/...ual-minefield/

    Quote The Messianic Guru
    This is one of the most dangerous teachers and is probably more common than one might suspect. Along the path of spiritual development there is a point when the seeker becomes aware of their own Godliness, and the fact that the whole universe revolves around them. When this profound truth is integrated in a holistic way, the seeker understands that all is about perspective, and appreciates the deep beauty and magic in the fact that we are all expressions of the divine and thus each have the ability to touch that deep point within where we all meet. We are each literally the centre of the universe, from our own unique perspective.

    The messianic guru however recognizes his/her divinity but has not yet understood it from the bigger picture perspective. This person believes that they are ‘the one’ and that they have a ‘special’ relationship with God/ the universe. Sometimes this comes through in their teachings in a blatant way, other times it can be more discreet. However, even when a person is secretive about their beliefs, they usually drop enough hints that can be recognized by the discerning observer.

    The danger is the underlying agenda is often subtly about supporting the ‘teacher’s’ distorted beliefs, and thus offers little to assist the seeker to uncover their own divinity.

  20. The Following 16 Users Say Thank You to enfoldedblue For This Post:

    Aragorn (21st January 2020), Ayt (21st January 2020), Bill Ryan (21st January 2020), Clear Light (21st January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), justntime2learn (21st January 2020), Ken (21st January 2020), Meryl (22nd January 2020), peterpam (21st January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), RunningDeer (21st January 2020), Tintin (21st January 2020), TomKat (21st January 2020), Valerie Villars (21st January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020), Wind (21st January 2020)

  21. Link to Post #11
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    22,103
    Thanks
    79,095
    Thanked 277,616 times in 20,578 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    Mod note from Bill:

    There were several interesting posts specifically about Max Igan here, a discussion about whom had also started on the Flat Earth thread. So I made the decision to move all these Mag Igan posts to this new thread, which I think is clearer and easier for anyone who's interested in this.
    No-one's done anything wrong! It's just housekeeping, as this is really a new standalone topic. The Messiah Complex I think is a more general topic. It seems to apply to quite a lot of people in the alt media (and elsewhere!), and is every bit as interesting.


  22. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Aragorn (21st January 2020), ClearWater (21st January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), justntime2learn (21st January 2020), peterpam (21st January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), RunningDeer (21st January 2020), Tintin (21st January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020), Yoda (21st January 2020)

  23. Link to Post #12
    Avalon Member peterpam's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th June 2012
    Posts
    1,777
    Thanks
    17,618
    Thanked 9,862 times in 1,711 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    It’s a funny one. But there’s something important I’ve observed after many years of spiritual practice and deeper interactions with fellow spiritual practitioners.
    It seems that “messianic complex” is a stage of psycho-spiritual evolution we all are bound to path through on the steep ascensions of samsara.

    It’s a fairly advanced stage but on behalf of my fellow spiritual seekers of all kinds, more people get there and through than those who ever mention it in open.
    It’s f course: very serious and responsible stage of “crazy bodhisattva”.
    In itself it’s harmless realisation of the “foundation” of ourselves as original beings.

    Many spiritual paths describe the same stage as culminating point.

    But a true self-less seeker does not, should not be content with his spiritual self at that point,
    seeing the true gem in truth that are impartial and benevolent to the whole, truth can be found only if principle of spiritual and physical elitism is abandoned.
    It’s a way to walk, not a button that can fix it all.

    Back to the point ,it helps to imagine nay realise that each of the 7 billions of petals of life flower of humanity has the same potential that will fully express itself as unique pattern in its own time and space if given the life option.


    I even think that 2000 years AD we have many Christs and Marias in our genes, the same could be said of the rest ..as consciousness evolves we try to incorporate these consciousnesses into our daily lives seamlessly yet in new ways.
    And there are new more evolved conscious entities being born to this world as we talk ..

    Call it evolution 😀
    There are really so many points of origin where someone could decide they are self anointed messiah on earth. I think you hit on a really good point here Agape. In a metaphysical sense and while on a journey that leads to a sense of oneness it really is possible to experience the sense of having the understanding that can lead the world out of this mess, thus becoming a potential messiah. As you said, most move through that. Then there are those that cling to it. That objectify it, that turn in into a commodity and currency. I guess that could be one of the dangers on spiritual journey. Do we get mesmerized by the shiny trinkets that are offered as distractions to us on the way? Do we believe we have completed the journey, that we know what there is know? Do we lack the understanding that we are never done, that enlightenment is not a concrete, static destination point? Being stuck at the messiah level after insights is most likely a needy ego desperately holding onto this to give itself validation.

    Another kind of the messiah complex that is far more insidious is the sociopathic messiah that uses his/her grandiosity specifically to manipulate and use others as a means to an end, maybe someone like Corey Goode. The misguided, yet sincere potential messiah that due to insight believes he/she is the one (that can still get caught up in the fame and monetary gain) vs. the deliberate, self proclaimed calculated messiah finding a perfect ruse for feeding the huge, empty pit of an ego and providing whatever that person wants. It's the second one that really can cause so much more harm.
    Last edited by peterpam; 21st January 2020 at 13:22.

  24. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to peterpam For This Post:

    Aragorn (21st January 2020), Bill Ryan (21st January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), justntime2learn (21st January 2020), Meryl (22nd January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020)

  25. Link to Post #13
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    22,103
    Thanks
    79,095
    Thanked 277,616 times in 20,578 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    The Messiah Complex is actually a recognized term, and it has its own Wikipedia page. (The 'See Also' section, leading down quite some rabbit hole, is particularly interesting)
    ~~~

    A messiah complex (Christ complex or savior complex) is a state of mind in which an individual holds a belief that they are destined to become a savior. The term can also refer to a state of mind in which an individual believes that they are responsible for saving or assisting others.

    Religious delusion

    The term "messiah complex" is not addressed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), as it is not a clinical term nor diagnosable disorder. However, the symptoms of the disorder closely resemble those found in individuals suffering from delusions of grandeur or that they have grandiose self-images that veer towards the delusional. An account specifically identified it as a category of religious delusion, which pertains to strong fixed beliefs that cause distress or disability. It is the type of religious delusion that is classified as grandiose while the other two categories are: persecutory and belittlement.

    Examples

    The messiah complex is most often reported in patients suffering from bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. When a messiah complex is manifested within a religious individual after a visit to Jerusalem, it may be identified as a psychosis known as Jerusalem syndrome.

    The messiah complex in such rare individuals can cause unimaginable consequences when combined with narcissistic and paranoid traits.

    See also

  26. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    aoibhghaire (21st January 2020), Aragorn (21st January 2020), Ayt (21st January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), peterpam (21st January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020), XelNaga (21st January 2020), Yoda (22nd January 2020)

  27. Link to Post #14
    Serbia Avalon Member XelNaga's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th November 2018
    Age
    31
    Posts
    59
    Thanks
    717
    Thanked 312 times in 59 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    I have to protest against this wiki sentence: "The term can also refer to a state of mind in which an individual believes that they are responsible for saving or assisting others."
    Imagine if all of us are "crazy or deluded" like that, well, this world would be a much much better place, wouldn't it?

    About the Messiah Complex, I have also fallen victim to it at one point Well, not exactly like I'm the one who is suppose to save us all, lol, but more like I'm one of those small number of people who knows some things, sees some things the way they are, or just simply care about the bigger picture more than our sleeping fellows. Thus we are those who might do something good for us all. But I guess it's a trap that is hard to avoid when you start your spiritual journey, and are constantly bombarded by un-spiritual things all around you.

    But I'm good now, I've got out of the trap and cured myself

  28. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to XelNaga For This Post:

    Aragorn (21st January 2020), Ayt (21st January 2020), Bill Ryan (21st January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), Meryl (22nd January 2020), peterpam (21st January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), Sammy (21st January 2020), Valerie Villars (22nd January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020)

  29. Link to Post #15
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    22,103
    Thanks
    79,095
    Thanked 277,616 times in 20,578 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    Quote Posted by XelNaga (here)
    I have to protest against this wiki sentence: "The term can also refer to a state of mind in which an individual believes that they are responsible for saving or assisting others."
    Imagine if all of us are "crazy or deluded" like that, well, this world would be a much much better place, wouldn't it?
    Yes, that was poorly worded. It should maybe read
    "The term can also refer to a state of mind in which an individual believes that they are solely responsible for saving or assisting others, and often procures obedient followers to support them."

  30. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    aoibhghaire (21st January 2020), Aragorn (21st January 2020), Ayt (21st January 2020), enfoldedblue (23rd January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), justntime2learn (21st January 2020), peterpam (21st January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), Valerie Villars (22nd January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020), XelNaga (23rd January 2020), Yoda (22nd January 2020)

  31. Link to Post #16
    Avalon Member peterpam's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th June 2012
    Posts
    1,777
    Thanks
    17,618
    Thanked 9,862 times in 1,711 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    I think I misunderstood the exact meaning of what we are talking about here. It seems we are talking about only those that sincerely believe that they are chosen to be a messiah? I guess that leaves the likes of Corey Goode out of this discussion.
    Quote I have to protest against this wiki sentence: "The term can also refer to a state of mind in which an individual believes that they are responsible for saving or assisting others."
    From your definition XelNaga, I have to admit I have exhibited a heavy dose of having almost a compulsive need to help or assist others (this includes animals). In my opinion, the messiah like aspect of this is "helping" them to come to the outcome that I think is best for them. It was only fairly recently that I saw this for what it was, a sort of control and not as altruistic as I would like to believe.It is empathy in a pathological state. I even aligned myself so I could do that and get paid for it as a nurse. Now, I am not saying there is no place for leading and helping others to a positive outcome, children and the infirm might very well benefit from it as well as those asking for that kind of assistance.

  32. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to peterpam For This Post:

    Aragorn (21st January 2020), Ayt (21st January 2020), Bill Ryan (21st January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), justntime2learn (21st January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020), XelNaga (23rd January 2020)

  33. Link to Post #17
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    22,103
    Thanks
    79,095
    Thanked 277,616 times in 20,578 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)
    I think I misunderstood the exact meaning of what we are talking about here. It seems we are talking about only those that sincerely believe that they are chosen to be a messiah? I guess that leaves the likes of Corey Goode out of this discussion.
    It's a little hard to put oneself in the shoes of those kinds of people! I'm guessing it's a kind of slippery spectrum.

    A grandstanding position might be taken for all kinds of reasons, delusional or otherwise. It might even have been a LARP, or some kind of private joke.

    Then, gradually, the person starts to believe it all themselves — because they have to: their entire life, work and social structure becomes 100% based on their claimed identity.

    And then the group reinforcement kicks in, as well. They have thousands of people telling them they're the chosen one (or, at least, some kind of hero figure). So everyone around them glues all this into place, as well.

    After all that, it's almost impossible to return to normal and come clean: "You know what? I had it all wrong."

  34. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Anka (21st January 2020), aoibhghaire (21st January 2020), Aragorn (21st January 2020), Ayt (21st January 2020), Gracy May (21st January 2020), James (22nd January 2020), justntime2learn (21st January 2020), peterpam (21st January 2020), Reinhard (21st January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020), Yoda (22nd January 2020)

  35. Link to Post #18
    UK Avalon Member Clear Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    8th September 2015
    Age
    49
    Posts
    905
    Thanks
    1,710
    Thanked 4,744 times in 853 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    Click image for larger version

Name:	reality bubble pop.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	39.1 KB
ID:	42328

    Quote Change the World by Changing Me

    The Sufi Bayazid says this about himself :

    Quote I was a revolutionary when I was young and all my prayer to God was "Lord, give me the energy to change the world".

    As I approached middle age and realized that half my life was gone without my changing a single soul, I changed my prayer to "Lord, give me the grace to change all those who come in contact with me. Just my family and friends, and I shall be satisfied".

    Now that I am an old man and my days are numbered, my one prayer is, "Lord, give me the grace to change myself". If I had prayed for this right from the start I should not have wasted my life.
    From : Anthony De Mello's The Song of the Bird
    Oh, but given how hard it is to change even one's own undesirable "worst habits", LOL, how much more difficult is it, I wonder, to attempt to "save" even one person eh ? And from what ?

    Last edited by Clear Light; 22nd January 2020 at 00:27.

  36. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Clear Light For This Post:

    Aragorn (22nd January 2020), Ayt (22nd January 2020), Bill Ryan (22nd January 2020), Intranuclear (22nd January 2020), justntime2learn (22nd January 2020), meeradas (22nd January 2020), Meryl (22nd January 2020), peterpam (22nd January 2020), Valerie Villars (23rd January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020), XelNaga (23rd January 2020)

  37. Link to Post #19
    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
    Join Date
    28th March 2010
    Posts
    11,696
    Thanks
    27,925
    Thanked 50,545 times in 10,237 posts

    Default Re: The Messiah Complex

    Sometimes it's just a matter of taking the right supplement to clear up one's delusions.
    See: http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1332509
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

  38. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to onawah For This Post:

    Aragorn (22nd January 2020), Bill Ryan (22nd January 2020), justntime2learn (22nd January 2020), Mike (22nd January 2020), peterpam (22nd January 2020), raregem (22nd January 2020), Sammy (22nd January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020)

  39. Link to Post #20
    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd September 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Language
    Dutch
    Age
    53
    Posts
    3,892
    Thanks
    3,403
    Thanked 19,778 times in 3,317 posts

    Lightbulb Re: The Messiah Complex



    'Three Christs' - Official Trailer:


    'Three Christs': A Too-Simple Film About The Messiah Complex


    Three Christs, No Waiting: Joseph (Bradley Whitford), Leon (Peter Dinklage) and Clyde (Walton Goggins) in Jon Avnet's film.

    Three Christs begins by listing four barbarous techniques used on psychiatric patients in the 1950s and then introduces its protagonist, who has a battered face and is preparing for a disciplinary hearing. This introduction appears to forecast a rough series of flashbacks for both the viewers and Dr. Alan Stone (Richard Gere). Ultimately, though, the movie goes too easy on us and him.

    In 1959, Michigan's state mental hospitals did actually hold three men who believed themselves to be Jesus. Social psychologist Milton Rokeach decided to treat them together, and later wrote a book, The Three Christs of Ypsilanti. Rokeach is the basis for the fictionalized Stone, and his book inspired the movie's glib and often clunky screenplay, written by Eric Nazarian and director Jon Avnet.

    Three Christs benefits from a seasoned cast. Peter Dinklage, Walton Goggins, and Bradley Whitford clearly relish the acting exercise of impersonating people with schizophrenia. Charlotte Hope is also compelling as Becky, the recent psychology graduate who signs on as Stone's research assistant and stirs the erotic impulses of all three patients (and maybe her new boss, too).

    Yet Gere doesn't relinquish his usual persona as Stone, who's portrayed as smart, benevolent, and movie-star suave. And Julianna Margulies can't do much with the underwritten role of Stone's wife Ruth, a chemistry professor who can joke that she's smarter than her husband, but is soon shown not to be wiser. As the administrators who alternately enable and undermine Stone, Kevin Pollak, Stephen Root, and Jane Alexander prove solid but unsurprising.

    Stone opposes electroshocks, lobotomies, induced comas, and harsh anti-psychotic drugs, which audiences in 2020 likely join him in abhorring. That doesn't mean his alternative is persuasive. Talk therapy may not be enough to banish the delusions of Joseph (Dinklage), an opera buff who imagines himself a posh Briton; Clyde (Whitford), whose musical taste is for advertising jingles and who showers endlessly to banish an imagined stench; and Leon (Goggins), who suffers PTSD and mommy issues and makes the crudest overtures to Becky.

    Inviting three Jesuses to the same session doesn't spark much psychological conflict or theological insight. Indeed, the self-proclaimed messiahs seem less bothered by each other's claims to divinity than by Stone's atheism, whose cause can be easily guessed. It's eventually spelled out, as is Stone's status as the parable's fourth saviour, a man who seeks to heal everyone around him. (He doesn't even have to visit an asylum to find people who need his touch: Both Ruth and Becky are candidates for deliverance.)
    Avnet, whose best-known movie is the semi-comic Fried Green Tomatoes, lightens the mood with a few whimsical moments. The Chock Full o'Nuts Coffee jingle becomes an organ-driven hymn, and one of the Jesuses jokes that, "I thought I met the devil. He was an orderly in Kalamazoo." For such moments to work, though, spectators must accept a central conceit of most Hollywood movies about people experiencing mental illness: that they can be become lucid whenever the script requires it.

    Stone finally decides that his approach was wrong, and sometimes unethical. Yet the filmmakers strive to place most of the blame elsewhere. Stone's miscalculations don't do much conspicuous damage, and the story's major disaster is pinned on someone else. Stone may not be any more of a Jesus than are his three patients, but Three Christs can't conceive of its silver-haired star as anything less than a saint.

    Source
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 22nd January 2020 at 18:20.
    ~no need2follow anyone only consider to broaden (y)our horizon of possibilities
    ~new: Stop5G.net & FB Groups/Stop5G

  40. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ExomatrixTV For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (22nd January 2020), Violet3 (28th January 2020)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts