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Thread: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    Delight, So far it looks like the mortality rate is about 3.4% and the elderly, those with preexisting conditions, and infants are most at risk. A bad flu has a mortality rate of 1%, if I remember correctly.

    That's what I have gleaned from Chris's videos. And it's just how it looks so far, nothing super definite. But, I find his analysis soothing because he mentions pluses and minuses and doesn't rant, rave, or demonize anybody. He is remarkably even handed.

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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Delight, So far it looks like the mortality rate is about 3.4% and the elderly, those with preexisting conditions, and infants are most at risk. A bad flu has a mortality rate of 1%, if I remember correctly.

    That's what I have gleaned from Chris's videos. And it's just how it looks so far, nothing super definite. But, I find his analysis soothing because he mentions pluses and minuses and doesn't rant, rave, or demonize anybody. He is remarkably even handed.
    And if, as Prof Gabriel Leung, the chair of public health medicine at Hong Kong University says in the article below that it could infect 60-80% of the worlds population meaning about 4 billion people, or more, could be exposed then a mortality rate of 3.4% would equate to around 136 million people dead. Sobering.

    Quote The coronavirus epidemic could spread to about two-thirds of the world’s population if it cannot be controlled, according to Hong Kong’s leading public health epidemiologist.

    His warning came after the head of the World Health Organization (WHO) said recent cases of coronavirus patients who had never visited China could be the “tip of the iceberg”.

    Prof Gabriel Leung, the chair of public health medicine at Hong Kong University, said the overriding question was to figure out the size and shape of the iceberg. Most experts thought that each person infected would go on to transmit the virus to about 2.5 other people. That gave an “attack rate” of 60-80%.

    “Sixty per cent of the world’s population is an awfully big number,” Leung told the Guardian in London, en route to an expert meeting at the WHO in Geneva on Tuesday.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...lds-population

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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    I apologize if this has been posted elsewhere. Mods please feel free to delete if redundant. But was wondering anyone knew about this?

    https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harva...-china-related

    Harvard University Professor and Two Chinese Nationals Charged in Three Separate China Related Cases
    The Department of Justice announced today that the Chair of Harvard University’s Chemistry and Chemical Biology Department and two Chinese nationals have been charged in connection with aiding the People’s Republic of China.

    Dr. Charles Lieber, 60, Chair of the Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology at Harvard University, was arrested this morning and charged by criminal complaint with one count of making a materially false, fictitious and fraudulent statement. Lieber will appear this afternoon before Magistrate Judge Marianne B. Bowler in federal court in Boston, Massachusetts.

    Yanqing Ye, 29, a Chinese national, was charged in an indictment today with one count each of visa fraud, making false statements, acting as an agent of a foreign government and conspiracy. Ye is currently in China.

    Zaosong Zheng, 30, a Chinese national, was arrested on Dec. 10, 2019, at Boston’s Logan International Airport and charged by criminal complaint with attempting to smuggle 21 vials of biological research to China. On Jan. 21, 2020, Zheng was indicted on one count of smuggling goods from the United States and one count of making false, fictitious or fraudulent statements. He has been detained since Dec. 30, 2019.

    Dr. Charles Lieber

    According to court documents, since 2008, Dr. Lieber who has served as the Principal Investigator of the Lieber Research Group at Harvard University, which specialized in the area of nanoscience, has received more than $15,000,000 in grant funding from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and Department of Defense (DOD). These grants require the disclosure of significant foreign financial conflicts of interest, including financial support from foreign governments or foreign entities. Unbeknownst to Harvard University beginning in 2011, Lieber became a “Strategic Scientist” at Wuhan University of Technology (WUT) in China and was a contractual participant in China’s Thousand Talents Plan from in or about 2012 to 2017. China’s Thousand Talents Plan is one of the most prominent Chinese Talent recruit plans that are designed to attract, recruit, and cultivate high-level scientific talent in furtherance of China’s scientific development, economic prosperity and national security. These talent programs seek to lure Chinese overseas talent and foreign experts to bring their knowledge and experience to China and reward individuals for stealing proprietary information. Under the terms of Lieber’s three-year Thousand Talents contract, WUT paid Lieber $50,000 USD per month, living expenses of up to 1,000,000 Chinese Yuan (approximately $158,000 USD at the time) and awarded him more than $1.5 million to establish a research lab at WUT. In return, Lieber was obligated to work for WUT “not less than nine months a year” by “declaring international cooperation projects, cultivating young teachers and Ph.D. students, organizing international conference[s], applying for patents and publishing articles in the name of” WUT.

    The complaint alleges that in 2018 and 2019, Lieber lied about his involvement in the Thousand Talents Plan and affiliation with WUT. On or about, April 24, 2018, during an interview with investigators, Lieber stated that he was never asked to participate in the Thousand Talents Program, but he “wasn’t sure” how China categorized him. In November 2018, NIH inquired of Harvard whether Lieber had failed to disclose his then-suspected relationship with WUT and China’s Thousand Talents Plan. Lieber caused Harvard to falsely tell NIH that Lieber “had no formal association with WUT” after 2012, that “WUT continued to falsely exaggerate” his involvement with WUT in subsequent years, and that Lieber “is not and has never been a participant in” China’s Thousand Talents Plan.

    Yanqing Ye

    According to the indictment, Ye is a Lieutenant of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), the armed forces of the People’s Republic of China and member of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). On her J-1 visa application, Ye falsely identified herself as a “student” and lied about her ongoing military service at the National University of Defense Technology (NUDT), a top military academy directed by the CCP. It is further alleged that while studying at Boston University’s (BU) Department of Physics, Chemistry and Biomedical Engineering from October 2017 to April 2019, Ye continued to work as a PLA Lieutenant completing numerous assignments from PLA officers such as conducting research, assessing U.S. military websites and sending U.S. documents and information to China.

    According to court documents, on April 20, 2019, federal officers interviewed Ye at Boston’s Logan International Airport. During the interview, it is alleged that Ye falsely claimed that she had minimal contact with two NUDT professors who were high-ranking PLA officers. However, a search of Ye’s electronic devices demonstrated that at the direction of one NUDT professor, who was a PLA Colonel, Ye had accessed U.S. military websites, researched U.S. military projects and compiled information for the PLA on two U.S. scientists with expertise in robotics and computer science. Furthermore, a review of a WeChat conversation revealed that Ye and the other PLA official from NUDT were collaborating on a research paper about a risk assessment model designed to decipher data for military applications. During the interview, Ye admitted that she held the rank of Lieutenant in the PLA and admitted she was a member of the CCP.

    Zaosong Zheng

    In August 2018, Zheng entered the United States on a J-1 visa and conducted cancer-cell research at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston from Sept. 4, 2018, to Dec. 9, 2019. It is alleged that on Dec. 9, 2019, Zheng stole 21 vials of biological research and attempted to smuggle them out of the United States aboard a flight destined for China. Federal officers at Logan Airport discovered the vials hidden in a sock inside one of Zheng’s bags, and not properly packaged. It is alleged that initially, Zheng lied to officers about the contents of his luggage, but later admitted he had stolen the vials from a lab at Beth Israel. Zheng stated that he intended to bring the vials to China to use them to conduct research in his own laboratory and publish the results under his own name.

    The charge of making false, fictitious and fraudulent statements provides for a sentence of up to five years in prison, three years of supervised release and a fine of $250,000. The charge of visa fraud provides for a sentence of up to 10 years in prison, three years of supervised release and a fine of $250,000. The charge of acting as an agent of a foreign government provides for a sentence of up to 10 years in prison, three years of supervised release and a fine of $250,000. The charge of conspiracy provides for a sentence of up to five years in prison, three years of supervised release and a fine of $250,000. The charge of smuggling goods from the United States provides for a sentence of up to 10 years in prison, three years of supervised release and a fine of $250,000. Sentences are imposed by a federal district court judge based upon the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines and other statutory factors.

    Assistant Attorney General for National Security John C. Demers, United States Attorney Andrew E. Lelling; Special Agent in Charge of the FBI Boston Field Division Joseph R. Bonavolonta; Michael Denning, Director of Field Operations, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, Boston Field Office; Leigh-Alistair Barzey, Special Agent in Charge of the Defense Criminal Investigative Service, Northeast Field Office; Philip Coyne, Special Agent in Charge of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Office of Inspector General; and William Higgins, Special Agent in Charge of the U.S. Department of Commerce, Office of Export Enforcement, Boston Field Office made the announcement. Assistant U.S. Attorneys B. Stephanie Siegmann, Jason Casey and Benjamin Tolkoff of Lelling’s National Security Unit are prosecuting these cases with the assistance of trial attorneys William Mackie and David Aaron at the National Security Division’s Counterintelligence and Export Control Section.

    The details contained in the charging documents are allegations. The defendants are presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.

    These case are part of the Department of Justice’s China Initiative, which reflects the strategic priority of countering Chinese national security threats and reinforces the President’s overall national security strategy. In addition to identifying and prosecuting those engaged in trade secret theft, hacking and economic espionage, the initiative will increase efforts to protect our critical infrastructure against external threats including foreign direct investment, supply chain threats and the foreign agents seeking to influence the American public and policymakers without proper registration.

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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    Right now I see only two paths out of the coronavirus outbreak. Global recession or pandemic. I believe this is an engineered pathogen given the location of outbreak, since we do not know who patent zero is.

    I laid out my thoughts further here.
    When in doubt, do the next right thing.
    My blog: http://grayseconomy.com

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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    I happned to find this.
    https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-02-...plication.html
    Should be interesting what big pharma's profit brings.
    I hold the opinion that the great winners might have had their hands on the outbreak.

    Have a nice weekend everybody out there

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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    https://www.zerohedge.com/health/smo...boratory-wuhan

    Quote Smoking Gun? Chinese Scientist Finds "Killer Coronavirus Probably Originated From A Laboratory In Wuhan"

    by Tyler Durden
    Fri, 02/14/2020 - 10:58
    TwitterFacebookRedditEmailPrint

    The uncertainty and the debate over the origins of the coronavirus pandemic are growing with each passing day.

    One week after the White House asked scientists to finally investigate whether the Covid-19 virus was bio-engineered (i.e., created in a lab), none other than CNBC jumped on the bandwagon and echoing a similar question by Senator Tom Cotton - and of course, Zero Hedge - said "maybe the coronavirus was man made."

    All this is taking place as the mainstream media, whose purpose is similar to that of Beijing in minimizing public concerns and panic even if it means fabricating reality, presses on with the popular theory that the virus emerged from the Huanan seafood market in Wuhan (we recently showed why this appears very unlikely) while branding anyone who suggests that the coronavirus might have originated as a bioweapon developed in a secretive Wuhan lab as deranged conspiracy theorist (a propaganda approach first popularized in the 1960s by the CIA to discredit controversial views).

    That has now changed, however, with what may be a "smoking gun" report, first noted by Harvard to the big house, from a scientist at the prestigious South China University of Technology in Guangzhou China. A pre-print published by Botao Xiao and Lei Xiao, titled "The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus" whose abstract is the following...

    The 2019-nCoV has caused an epidemic of 28,060 laboratory-confirmed infections in human including 564 deaths in China by February 6, 2020. Two descriptions of the virus published on Nature this week indicated that the genome sequences from patients were almost identical to the Bat CoV ZC45 coronavirus. It was critical to study where the pathogen came from and how it passed onto human. An article published on The Lancet reported that 27 of 41 infected patients were found to have contact with the Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan. We noted two laboratories conducting research on bat coronavirus in Wuhan, one of which was only 280 meters from the seafood market. We briefly examined the histories of the laboratories and proposed that the coronavirus probably originated from a laboratory. Our proposal provided an alternative origin of the coronavirus in addition to natural recombination and intermediate host.

    ... and an especially ominous conclusion:

    In summary, somebody was entangled with the evolution of 2019-nCoV coronavirus. In addition to origins of natural recombination and intermediate host, the killer coronavirus probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan.

    Who is Botao and should anyone listen to him? Well, yes: this is what we find about the research group of the Harvard post-doc:

    The Xiao group study mainly in the fields of cellular and molecular biomechanics, single molecule biophysics and engineering. Current research areas are: protein-ligand interactions, DNA and RNA assembly, high-throughput nanometer measurements and manipulation, mathematical modeling and quantitative analysis. The experimental techniques include: magnetic tweezers, optical tweezers, biomembrane force probe, fluorescent microscopy, genetic engineering, and chromatography. An project example is using high-throughput single molecule techniques to study the modulation of protein drugs on interactions of integrins and their ligands such as TGF-beta. We also study von Willebrand Factor and glycoproteins on platelets. We collaborate with a number of well-known universities and institutions, and a few enterprises. Our research will be of relevance for the prevention and treatment of cancer, immune and cardiovascular diseases.

    But what is far more interesting, and important, is that the paper was supported by China's National Natural Science Foundation, which means that the paper would likely never see the light of day if someone in Beijing did not stand to gain politically by endorsing the contrarian theory that a Wuhan biolab was indeed the source of the infection.

    Which begs the question: is China's political elite set to change the narrative it has been spinning since day one about the origins of the coronavirus, and in order to appease an increasingly angry population, points the finger to one or more scientists at the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention and/or Wuhan Institute of Virology. Perhaps even the same scientists we highlighted two weeks ago, and which led to our twitter ban?

    And until we eagerly await the answer, here is the gist of Botao's paper, which we repost here just in case it does disappear after all (ResearchGate link here):

    The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus


    Botao Xiao1,2* and Lei Xiao3

    1 Joint International Research Laboratory of Synthetic Biology and Medicine, School of Biology and Biological Engineering, South China University of Technology, Guangzhou 510006, China

    2 School of Physics, Huazhong University of Science and Technology, Wuhan 430074, China

    3 Tian You Hospital, Wuhan University of Science and Technology, Wuhan 430064, China

    Corresponding author: xiaob@scut.edu.cn

    Tel / Fax: 86-20-3938-0631



    The 2019-nCoV coronavirus has caused an epidemic of 28,060 laboratory-confirmed infections in human including 564 deaths in China by February 6, 2020. Two descriptions of the virus published on Nature this week indicated that the genome sequences from patients were 96% or 89% identical to the Bat CoV ZC45 coronavirus originally found in Rhinolophus affinis 1,2. It was critical to study where the pathogen came from and how it passed onto human.

    An article published on The Lancet reported that 41 people in Wuhan were found to have the acute respiratory syndrome and 27 of them had contact with Huanan Seafood Market 3. The 2019-nCoV was found in 33 out of 585 samples collected in the market after the outbreak. The market was suspected to be the origin of the epidemic, and was shut down according to the rule of quarantine the source during an epidemic.

    The bats carrying CoV ZC45 were originally found in Yunnan or Zhejiang province, both of which were more than 900 kilometers away from the seafood market. Bats were normally found to live in caves and trees. But the seafood market is in a densely-populated district of Wuhan, a metropolitan of ~15 million people. The probability was very low for the bats to fly to the market. According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market. There was possible natural recombination or intermediate host of the coronavirus, yet little proof has been reported.

    Was there any other possible pathway? We screened the area around the seafood market and identified two laboratories conducting research on bat coronavirus. Within ~280 meters from the market, there was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control & Prevention (WHCDC) (Figure 1, from Baidu and Google maps).

    WHCDC hosted animals in laboratories for research purpose, one of which was specialized in pathogens collection and identification 4- 6. In one of their studies, 155 bats including Rhinolophus affinis were captured in Hubei province, and other 450 bats were captured in Zhejiang province 4. The expert in collection was noted in the Author Contributions (JHT). Moreover, he was broadcasted for collecting viruses on nation-wide newspapers and websites in 2017 and 2019 7,8. He described that he was once attacked by bats and the blood of a bat shot on his skin. He knew the extreme danger of the infection so he quarantined himself for 14 days 7. In another accident, he quarantined himself again because bats peed on him. He was once thrilled for capturing a bat carrying a live tick8.

    Surgery was performed on the caged animals and the tissue samples were collected for DNA and RNA extraction and sequencing 4, 5. The tissue samples and contaminated trashes were source of pathogens. They were only ~280 meters from the seafood market. The WHCDC was also adjacent to the Union Hospital (Figure 1, bottom) where the first group of doctors were infected during this epidemic. It is plausible that the virus leaked around and some of them contaminated the initial patients in this epidemic, though solid proofs are needed in future study.

    The second laboratory was ~12 kilometers from the seafood market and belonged to Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences 1, 9, 10. This laboratory reported that the Chinese horseshoe bats were natural reservoirs for the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) which caused the 2002-3 pandemic 9. The principle investigator participated in a project which generated a chimeric virus using the SARS-CoV reverse genetics system, and reported the potential for human emergence 10. A direct speculation was that SARS-CoV or its derivative might leak from the laboratory.

    In summary, somebody was entangled with the evolution of 2019-nCoV coronavirus. In addition to origins of natural recombination and intermediate host, the killer coronavirus probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan. Safety level may need to be reinforced in high risk biohazardous laboratories. Regulations may be taken to relocate these laboratories far away from city center and other densely populated places.

    Acknowledgements

    This work is supported by the National Natural Science Foundation of China (11772133, 11372116).

    Declaration of interests

    All authors declare no competing interests.

    References

    1. Zhou P, Yang X-L, Wang X-G, et al. A pneumonia outbreak associated with a new coronavirus of probable bat origin. Nature 2020. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-020-2012-7.
    2. Wu F, Zhao S, Yu B, et al. A new coronavirus associated with human respiratory disease in China. Nature 2020. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-020-2008-3.
    3. Huang C, Wang Y, Li X, et al. Clinical features of patients infected with 2019 novel coronavirus in Wuhan, China. The Lancet 2019. https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140- 6736(20)30183-5.
    4. Guo WP, Lin XD, Wang W, et al. Phylogeny and origins of hantaviruses harbored by bats, insectivores, and rodents. PLoS pathogens 2013; 9(2): e1003159.
    5. Lu M, Tian JH, Yu B, Guo WP, Holmes EC, Zhang YZ. Extensive diversity of rickettsiales bacteria in ticks from Wuhan, China. Ticks and tick-borne diseases 2017; 8(4): 574-80.
    6. Shi M, Lin XD, Chen X, et al. The evolutionary history of vertebrate RNA viruses. Nature 2018; 556(7700): 197-202.
    7. Tao P. Expert in Wuhan collected ten thousands animals: capture bats in mountain at night. Changjiang Times 2017.
    8. Li QX, Zhanyao. Playing with elephant dung, fishing for sea bottom mud: the work that will change China's future. thepaper 2019.
    9. Ge XY, Li JL, Yang XL, et al. Isolation and characterization of a bat SARS-like coronavirus that uses the ACE2 receptor. Nature 2013; 503(7477): 535-8.
    10. Menachery VD, Yount BL, Jr., Debbink K, et al. A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence. Nature medicine 2015; 21(12): 1508-13.


    Indeed, just today, the FT reported that Trevor Bedford, of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle, "rubbished stories circulating on social media that Covid-19 was created at Wuhan Institute of Virology or elsewhere in China." Bedford is of course entitled to his opinion, which was only reinforced by the lack of any dissenting views from the scientific community, especially in "ground zero", China.
    I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson

    The present as you think of it, and in practical working terms, is that point at which you select your physical experience from all those events that could be materialized. - Seth (The Nature of Personal Reality - Session 656, Page 293)

    (avatar image: Brocken spectre, a wonderful phenomenon of nature I have experienced and a symbol for my aspirations.) :)

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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    I tend to ignore the information "leaked" from China, even with video "proof". So much disinformation is going on. The following that I know are true however,

    1. The lockdowns in many big cities are very draconian, to the point that in some places each building or terrace is lockdowned. Residents can only go out to buy food maybe every two days for two hours. In some areas even all supermarkets and markets are closed. Streets are absolute empty. It is a more horrifying scene than buidings in ruins in time of war.

    2. The Chicken pandemic that started last month in Hunan, the province south of Hubei is severe, even though it is not in the news. There is no chicken meat (or almost no) to buy in cities like Shenzhen, while pork is already very expensive (about 3 times than say a year ago) because of the swin flu. So pigs, humans and chicken all got hit. One wonders if it is mandate from heaven.

    3. The psychological damage to the population is great. It is perhaps more severe than anytime in Chinese history because never was there a time when everything stopped and people cowered in fear at home all day for days, not even during the brutal Japanese invasion. If this lasts for a few months longer, I think it will break even the very resilent minds of the Chinese people. When other peoples look at the Chinese as dangerous as viruses, the international reputation of the Chinese people suffered greatly too.
    Last edited by syrwong; 14th February 2020 at 17:36.

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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]



    Bumping this short report. I'm becoming more and more impressed with Stefan Molyneux. Kudos to him for his closing words about the terrible impact on very real people, just like you and me.


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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    Quote Posted by syrwong (here)
    I tend to ignore the information "leaked" from China, even with video "proof". So much disinformation is going on. The following that I know are true however,

    1. The lockdowns in many big cities are very draconian, to the point that in some places each building or terrace is lockdowned. Residents can only go out to buy food maybe every two days for two hours. In some areas even all supermarkets and markets are closed. Streets are absolute empty. It is a more horrifying scene than buidings in ruins in time of war.

    2. The Chicken pandemic that started last month in Hunan, the province south of Hubei is severe, even though it is not in the news. There is no chicken meat (or almost no) to buy in cities like Shenzhen, while pork is already very expensive (about 3 times than say a year ago) because of the swin flu. So pigs, humans and chicken all got hit. One wonders if it is mandate from heaven.

    3. The psychological damage to the population is great. It is perhaps more severe than anytime in Chinese history because never was there a time when everything stopped and people cowered in fear at home all day for days, not even during the brutal Japanese invasion. If this lasts for a few months longer, I think it will break even the very resilent minds of the Chinese people. When other peoples look at the Chinese as dangerous as viruses, the international reputation of the Chinese people suffered greatly too.
    I have been imagining that this event is a major catalyst for all of us as human beings. This is obviously not a case where Chinese people are dangerous as viruses!! But this is a case where we all as humans have made ourselves as vulnerable as could possibly BE to host the ideas about ourselves and the world which make us victim to this kind of threat.

    My heart is terribly sore thinking of all the people who are suffering from whatever is behind this event. I will keep praying that the light of creator's wisdom penetrate deep into the muddy material and a giant AH HA! be heard in all the ears and vision clear to 2020 about who we, what is TRUE, and HOW we will use this knowledge.

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    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    Yes this all is also not about just coronavirus or number of plain crashes, it’s about humanity falling out of its principles.
    The way people are forced to live, work and die at some places these days and that by millions deprived of their ancestral religions,
    individuality replaced by number
    has probably surpassed its Orwellian peak
    and not that we have seen it all.

    See something else:

    https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-s...affic-injuries


    The number of people dying in car accidents globally is staggering 1.35 million people every year according to the WHO report. That does not count in few more millions of people dying from indirect causes of cars such as exposure to CO2 etc etc

    That’s far bigger number in fact.

    There is so much money in the car industry spilling out dirty tanks everyday
    just because they sell, whipping up class competition
    to absurd show of the fastest most expensive boxes
    stuck in endless queues on endless highways.

    Full of heavy metals, we are breathing it😢


    This civilization is dying under our feet

    I don’t want to see that much.


    As I used to tease my old self “you may have about half an hour left to reach enlightenment”.



    Think ahead of this time because our future depends on you



    💫

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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    Stefan Molyneux's video is yet another amplifier like all the videos I have watched so far (I watched a few and got tired of the same rhetoric). They all zoom on what's happening right in front of you and no one (I mean no one) bothered to look West. There is a crucial, pivotal piece of information that no one bothered to focus one, as if they purposely looked away from. The crucial piece of info is..... the number of people who recovered. I mean we are not talking about a handful or a few dozen or a few hundreds. We are talking about 6295 !!. Did anyone bothered to find out how these people recovered? Surely not by miracle or staring at thin air; they must done something, taken things, taken precautions or something. How did these people recover? Find out and replicate, improve and replicate. Sadly humans love dramas, not solutions. That's why they feed us dramas, not solutions!
    Last edited by Tomkoyote; 14th February 2020 at 18:53.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    Quote Posted by Tomkoyote (here)
    the number of people who recovered.
    Yes. But:

    See any of the pages listing the up-to-date statistics.
    At this time, the official stats say:
    • 1,384 have died.
    • 7,183 have recovered.
    That's a fatality rate of 16%.

    Of course, there are many more cases which have NOT reached an 'outcome' yet, and are not 'closed'... although many of those are 'critical', and sadly may well become fatalities. More time is needed before we really know the CFR (the Case Fatality Rate), in different countries or areas.

    (Note: I fully appreciate silvanelf's comment about this in his very much appreciated post #645. But that 16% proportion does not look good.)

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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    I have heard that the virus seems to infect smokers more on an average. It seems many young men in Asia are smokers. Moral of that is time to get off the smokes if you haven't already had that realization.

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    France Avalon Member Deux Corbeaux's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    Quote Posted by James Newell (here)
    I have heard that the virus seems to infect smokers more on an average. It seems many young men in Asia are smokers. Moral of that is time to get off the smokes if you haven't already had that realization.
    Not only does smoking cause serious health conditions like cancer, but it also lessens your body’s immune response, making you more susceptible to infections and viruses.

    Add.
    Smoking depletes essential vitamins (C) and minerals in our bodies.
    Last edited by Deux Corbeaux; 14th February 2020 at 19:40.

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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    Quote Posted by Deux Corbeaux (here)
    Quote Posted by James Newell (here)
    I have heard that the virus seems to infect smokers more on an average. It seems many young men in Asia are smokers. Moral of that is time to get off the smokes if you haven't already had that realization.
    Not only does smoking cause serious health conditions like cancer, but it also lessens your body’s immune response, making you more susceptible to infections and viruses.

    Add.
    Smoking depletes essential vitamins (C) and minerals in our bodies.
    Somewhat ironic that Nicotine can be useful for treating a Cytokine Storm, which can be caused by the virus.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    Quote Posted by Delight (here)
    I am listening to this now

    How China’s Totalitarian Regime Has Worsened the Coronavirus Spread
    (13 Feb 2020)

    A definite

    Packed wall-to-wall with very interesting, measured, but utterly clear information.

    Much of that is about "unrestricted warfare" — avoiding military confrontation, but undermining or subverting the "enemy" in every other way — and China's strategy for world domination. But here, it's argued, that very totalitarian approach to almost everything appears to have backfired on them.

    50 mins long, but most worthwhile for those with the time. (OMG, another channel I have to follow! )
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 14th February 2020 at 21:06.

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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    A definite

    Packed wall-to-wall with very interesting, measured, but utterly clear information. An hour long, but most worthwhile for those with the time. (OMG, another channel I have to follow! )
    But let me ask you Bill --- what is all that information really doing for you?

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  35. Link to Post #698
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    Quote Posted by Franny (here)
    A comment below the most recent Martensen video.
    Quote From the movie *Contagion* "We just have to make sure that nobody knows, until everybody knows."
    Here's another upload (valid for 7 days, till 21 Feb) of Contagion — with Richard Preston's chilling investigative book about bioweapons, The Demon in the Freezer, thrown in for free.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    A definite

    Packed wall-to-wall with very interesting, measured, but utterly clear information. An hour long, but most worthwhile for those with the time. (OMG, another channel I have to follow! )
    But let me ask you Bill --- what is all that information really doing for you?
    Thanks for the great question. I do understand where it came from.

    There are global (and also much more trivial!) issues that I track, and others that I don't. I usually just follow my nose.

    This topic I feel is very important, and I feel an inner mandate to be fully informed. Why, we might find out later. And of course, it might all blow over. (But somehow, I'm doubting that.)

    I'm maintaining my healthy balance. I still go for daily hikes with my dog, yesterday and the day before had multi-hour conversations with a fellow-researcher about ufology, and I follow a bunch of other forum topics, contributing where I can.

    Last night, I enjoyed watching the excellent 1993 Western movie Tombstone (for which Val Kilmer should have got an Oscar). And this morning I did a bunch of yard work (as it were: I don't have a 'yard', but I do have some large fields with real fences that really do need mending). So, I'm not losing my mind about this.

    But I'm also learning a lot, and like you — I'm sure! — I've been doing that for decades in all kinds of subjects. We never stop learning, or never should.


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    United States Avalon Member onevoice's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Wuhan Coronavirus [Covid-19, the Honey Badger virus]

    Most people in the US knows that much of what is sold in the US is sourced in China. What many people may not know is that much of the US drugs and medical supply are also sourced in China as well. The following article explains this situation.

    Coronavirus Outbreak Exposes China’s Monopoly on U.S. Drug, Medical Supplies

    by REBECCA MANSOUR13 Feb 2020

    The coronavirus outbreak has exposed the United States’ dangerous dependence on China for pharmaceutical and medical supplies, including an estimated 97 percent of all antibiotics and 80 percent of the active pharmaceutical ingredients needed to produce drugs in the United States.

    The economic repercussions of the coronavirus reveal the dangers of allowing one country to have a near monopoly on global manufacturing, David Dayen explains in an article at the American Prospect:
    China is a source of not only finished goods, but also of input parts and raw materials. A substantial number of the materials needed for defense and electronic systems come from China, and that nation is “the single or sole supplier for a number of specialty chemicals,” according to a recent Defense Department report. Rare earth minerals, which are critical to electronics, are largely mined in China. As a result, Chinese disruptions don’t just hit Chinese manufacturing, they hit everyone’s. Automakers have already had to slow or shut down factories globally due to supply shortages.

    Perhaps the biggest concern is over medical supplies. China produces and exports a large amount of pharmaceuticals to the U.S., including 97 percent of all antibiotics and 80 percent of the active ingredients used to make drugs here. Penicillin, ibuprofen, and aspirin largely come from China. Last month, the medical supply firm Cardinal Health recalled 2.9 million surgical gowns “cross contaminated” at a plant in China; the blood pressure drug valsartan also saw shortages recently, thanks to tainted active ingredients at one Chinese plant. The combination of supply chain disruptions and increased demand at hospitals if coronavirus spreads to the U.S. could prove devastating.

    In a dark irony, most of the world’s face masks—now ubiquitous in China as a precaution—are made in China and Taiwan, and even for those made elsewhere, some component parts are Chinese-sourced. Shortages have led China to declare the masks a “strategic resource,” reserving them for medical workers. U.S. hospitals are “critically low” on respiratory masks, according to medical-supply middlemen. Lack of protective gear could increase vulnerability to the virus, and the one place on earth suffering from production shutdowns is the one place where most of the protective gear originates [emphasis added].
    In testimony yesterday before the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, Scott Gottlieb, a physician and the former Food and Drug Administration commissioner in the Trump administration, explained in detail the extent of the U.S. pharmaceutical industry’s dependence on China:
    About 40 percent of generic drugs sold in the U.S. have only a single manufacturer. A significant supply chain disruption could cause shortages for some of many of these products.

    Last year, manufacturing of intermediate or finished goods in China, as well as pharmaceutical source material, accounted for 95 percent of U.S. imports of ibuprofen, 91 percent of U.S. imports of hydrocortisone, 70 percent of U.S. imports of acetaminophen, 40 to 45 percent of U.S. imports of penicillin, and 40 percent of U.S. imports of heparin, according to the Commerce Department. In total, 80 percent of the U.S. supply of antibiotics are made in China.

    While much of the fill finishing work (the actual formulation of finished drug capsules and tablets) is done outside China (and often in India) the starting and intermediate chemicals are often sourced in China. Moreover, the U.S. generic drug industry can no longer produce certain critical medicines such as penicillin and doxycycline without these chemical components.

    According to a report from the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission, China’s chemical industry, which accounts for 40 percent of global chemical industry revenue, provides a large number of ingredients for drug products. It’s these source materials — where in many cases China is the exclusive source of the chemical ingredients used for the manufacture of a drug product — that create choke points in the global supply chain for critical medicines.

    Moreover, when it comes to starting material for the manufacture of pharmaceutical ingredients, a lot of this production is centered in China’s Hubei Provence, the epicenter of coronavirus. Most drug makers have a one to three-months of inventory of drug ingredients on hand. But these supplies are already being drawn down. Among big [active pharmaceutical ingredient] makers in Wuhan are Wuhan Shiji Pharmaceutical, Chemwerth, Hubei Biocause, Wuhan Calmland Pharmaceuticals. [emphasis added]
    Gottlieb notes that “80 percent of the U.S. supply of antibiotics are made in China.” The sourcing of this estimate is explained in greater detail in section three of the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission’s 2019 report to Congress, titled “ Growing U.S. Reliance on China’s Biotech and Pharmaceutical Products.”

    The report notes that China is “the world’s largest producer of active pharmaceutical ingredients (APIs). The United States is heavily dependent on drugs that are either sourced from China or include APIs sourced from China.” The report further explains that although India is the world’s leading supplier of generic drugs, India gets 80 percent of its active pharmaceutical ingredients directly from China. The United States also imports 80 percent of its APIs from overseas (primarily from India and China) and “a substantial portion” of its generic drugs “either directly from China or from third countries like India that use APIs sourced from China.”

    In other words, almost all pharmaceutical roads lead to China.

    Furthermore, the report notes that China’s dominance of the chemical industry and global manufacturing of active pharmaceutical ingredients means that “the world is becoming increasingly dependent on China as the single source for life-saving drugs.”

    “The U.S. generic drug industry can no longer produce certain critical medicines such as penicillin and doxycycline, and the APIs needed to make these antibiotics are sourced from China,” the report states.

    China achieved this dominance in the pharmaceutical industry by the same methods it employed to dominate the steel industry – through anti-competitive trade practices that dumped cheap state-subsidized products on foreign markets to drive competitors out of business.

    The report states:

    Rosemary Gibson, senior advisor at the Hastings Center and author of China RX, noted in her testimony before the Commission that the United States is losing its ability to produce generic drugs because Chinese drug companies dumped low-price products into the global market, which in turn pushed U.S., European, and Indian producers out of the generic drug manufacturing business. According to Ms. Gibson, China is seeking to disrupt, dominate, and displace U.S. pharmaceutical and other medical companies, and in doing so limit the United States’ ability to produce its own medicines, including critical antibiotics such as penicillin and even generic aspirin. She believes the United States could see its generic drug industry made uncompetitive within five to ten years due to the Chinese government’s policies (including subsidies and export incentives) that allow Chinese pharmaceutical firms to undercut prices and drive U.S. firms out of business. [emphasis added]
    ...
    More information is available at the source.

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