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Thread: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

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    Ecuador Avalon Member wnlight's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    I have to say that I am shocked! I had come to expect endless postponements.
    - Warren Light

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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)
    One stone on the grave of the globalist agenda.
    Now which globalist agenda would that be – for there would appear to be more than one? As I pointed out the other day, the Brexit show has been run by the same people as were behind the so-called “Anglo-Saxon Mission”. That agenda was supposed to come to fruition in 2012, a year famous for nothing untoward happening. Surprise surprise, the Brexit bandwagon really got rolling in 2013. Since then, the big new gambit has been to get a sizeable portion of the alternative scene behind the very people they should be objecting to.


    I would have to ask what it means in terms of law and finance.

    Yes, I would think there are a handful of "globalist agendas" which may at times cooperate or compete. I presume UK is a bygone in terms of military empire, but, first of all, being the original shadow banking tax shelter, and secondly, land holdings such as World Wildlife Foundation in Africa and so forth...I don't think their hands are exactly clean, and for some it will be business as usual.

    At the same time, if you can force them to support reasonable health services, then at least you are getting something in return, better than here is my understanding.

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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)

    At the same time, if you can force them to support reasonable health services, then at least you are getting something in return, better than here is my understanding.
    Unfortunately, It will get worse the British health system. Every Doctor and Nurse begged the people of Britain NOT to vote Conservative because the NHS is being run into the ground. However, as the British people wake up today excited by events and eager to enjoy their new Sovereignty. Mmm! Smell that fresh sovereign air! Feel the freedom after 47 years of tyranny! Our shackles removed at last! Free at last, free at last!

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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    On the contrary old chap! We were promised £350 million per week for the NHS once we left the EU. I’m sure Boris is as good as his word, but would you just double-check and see if the cheque goes in at the start or the end of next week?

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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    ...being the original shadow banking tax shelter...
    Happen to know when this was established?
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    Think people a little naive.
    Every country has rules governing imports—exporters have to meet those or no trade can happen.
    The idea that there will be no border between NI and the South is just not true.
    Different tariff means custom and excise will require regulations to be met.
    So there has to be border points to check incoming goods.
    There will be additional paperwork to export and import.
    All this means delay—delay creates expense.
    No longer free flow of goods to our biggest customer the EU
    This means extra expense—who will pay for it –why us of course.
    So I think the idea that UK will be better off is a bit optimistic.
    In a few months those who shouted loudest for Brexit may be loudest critics.
    I hope im wrong.
    New beginnings are a bit like a birth, painful, hopefully good will come of it.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    Adieu, EU: UK celebrates exit from the European Union



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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    ...being the original shadow banking tax shelter...
    Happen to know when this was established?


    I don't mean "original" necessarily as "first", but original, in terms of globally spread. Having to do with territories such as the Virgin Islands. I guess we could look from the start of Bank of England, which I think was 1694, and no Rothschild does not solely own it. My understanding is it has to do with an old issue in British politics, it was hard to get the government to crack down on "pirates" because most contraband was being smuggled by members of Parliament. And so this would be things like untaxed rum. I don't think there was an event like "poof" and suddenly a shadow institution appeared in place, but, an evolving strategy of those who had the means to do so.

    Although Virgin Islands is still the leading tax haven, little is said about the colonial epoch, except the governors approved at least one island as a pirate safehouse, even prior to Bank of England. So perhaps it may be more accurate to say there was already international shadow finance, which the actual bank simply grew up in the middle of.

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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    I think that the EU is not a good thing and clearly if you watch the constitution struggle it shows that it is not good. I do remember the Lisbon treaty. I remember how that developed and they forced Ireland to revote after they voted wrong, after other countries did the same but then they change the vote to stop that. I agree that Brexit is probably the best thing for England(but not actually the world. I do think the EU prevents another franco prussian war. So the EU falling apart would actually move us closer to another goddamn European conflagration).

    The racist anti immigrant takes in here are appalling.

    Did you know that Bill Ryan is an immigrant? When you talk about being anti immigrant you are anti Bill Ryan. FULL STOP. Do you hate Bill Ryan or are you just anti immigrants that are not white?

    Being anti immigration as anyone of European descent in the Americas is stupid and ignorant.

    IF you are not of a tribe, you are of immigration. To be okay with your past but want to block that for other people is disgusting.

    I am constantly shocked about how some people around here are supposed to be star child, love light, infinite awareness and acceptance, woo woo people then espouse racist nonsense.

    Capitalism and class warfare destroy your countries, not immigrants. Also capitalism and class warfare destroyed their countries, that is why they are immigrating to the countries that did the destroying.

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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)

    The racist anti immigrant takes in here are appalling.
    These are strong political opinions. Nothing to do with 'racism', as best I can see.

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Did you know that Bill Ryan is an immigrant? When you talk about being anti immigrant you are anti Bill Ryan. FULL STOP. Do you hate Bill Ryan or are you just anti immigrants that are not white?
    Well, I've written on the Racism thread that in many ways, I really don't think I should be in Ecuador.

    I'm legally allowed to be here, and cause no harm, but I don't belong here, these are not my people, I don't speak the language, I don't contribute to the strong culture, and in many ways I'm an imposter.

    I'm always just as friendly as I can be, but I know I'm merely tolerated, and that the Ecuadorians are worried about their culture getting diluted by [usually economic] immigration.

    If I were an Ecuadorian, I'd want Bill Ryan to "go home". The practical issue is that I have no other "home" to go to.


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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)

    The racist anti immigrant takes in here are appalling.
    These are strong political opinions. Nothing to do with 'racism', as best I can see.

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    Did you know that Bill Ryan is an immigrant? When you talk about being anti immigrant you are anti Bill Ryan. FULL STOP. Do you hate Bill Ryan or are you just anti immigrants that are not white?
    Well, I've written on the Racism thread that in many ways, I really don't think I should be in Ecuador.

    I'm legally allowed to be here, and cause no harm, but I don't belong here, these are not my people, I don't speak the language, I don't contribute to the strong culture, and in many ways I'm an imposter.

    I'm always just as friendly as I can be, but I know I'm merely tolerated, and that the Ecuadorians are worried about their culture getting diluted by [usually economic] immigration.

    If I were an Ecuadorian, I'd want Bill Ryan to "go home". The practical issue is that I have no other "home" to go to.

    I hear you Bill and yes no racism here.

    If I was:
    Quote If I were an Ecuadorian, I'd want Bill Ryan to "go home"
    I wouldn't mind anyone who was good and kind (just like you Bill), I would treat them like beings of the world.
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    I think that the EU is not a good thing and clearly if you watch the constitution struggle it shows that it is not good. I do remember the Lisbon treaty. I remember how that developed and they forced Ireland to revote after they voted wrong, after other countries did the same but then they change the vote to stop that. I agree that Brexit is probably the best thing for England(but not actually the world. I do think the EU prevents another franco prussian war. So the EU falling apart would actually move us closer to another goddamn European conflagration).

    The racist anti immigrant takes in here are appalling.

    Did you know that Bill Ryan is an immigrant? When you talk about being anti immigrant you are anti Bill Ryan. FULL STOP. Do you hate Bill Ryan or are you just anti immigrants that are not white?

    Being anti immigration as anyone of European descent in the Americas is stupid and ignorant.

    IF you are not of a tribe, you are of immigration. To be okay with your past but want to block that for other people is disgusting.

    I am constantly shocked about how some people around here are supposed to be star child, love light, infinite awareness and acceptance, woo woo people then espouse racist nonsense.

    Capitalism and class warfare destroy your countries, not immigrants. Also capitalism and class warfare destroyed their countries, that is why they are immigrating to the countries that did the destroying.
    Political Correctness is stupid I would say. You come out just as all the leftists that spout love and peace but only create havoc.

    The "dream" comes before the reality. Nastiness is their forte.

    I could say I hate communism and socialism but it's set in stone here. Unavoidable. It creates a hoard of ignorance and incompetence.
    Those not wanting to partake in delusional dreams are getting labelled all kind of things. They don't want to hear about reality. They want to dream.
    It works a while but reality comes around.

    Practicalities of the things on the ground don't work in your favour. So being the correct one in your eyes isn't to be something to be proud of.
    It's a complete Echo-chamber all it is.

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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    Is it racist we have finally got our nation and our democracy back?

    I have a real problem with people playing the racist card, particularly in that the worst part of the last 1317 or so days has been the repeated claims by many Remainers that anyone who voted Leave was as thick as two short planks, narrow-minded, bigoted and probably xenophobic/racist. Simply because we want to make our own laws, police our own borders, escape micro-regulation, uniformity (my personal pet hate) and red tape.

    They were furious that us great unwashed plebs didn't fall into line. The ruling class have always hated this country, and England in particular, since the 1930s. It was genuinely bizarre to see "Labour" politicians lining up with the CBI, the banks, the BBC, the judiciary and the senior echelons of the civil service - basically the Establishment - to trot out the same doom-mongering nonsense. Ranting, interrupting rent-a-gobs like Terry Christian will keep banging on until the cows come home, while sensible Remainers realise that there is no going back.

    Most Leave voters love Europe, its people and its cultures as much as I do. Let’s hope other European countries like the Netherlands vote to choose their own destinies too
    Last edited by happyuk; 2nd February 2020 at 18:22.

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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    If you think Brexiteers are angry now, just wait until the wonders of Brexit fail to materialise


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/think-brex...144837645.html

    I have just read Tom Peck’s article, "Parliament Square was a knuckle-dragging carnival of irredeemable stupidity". Were it not so true, it would be acerbically-funny.

    It is clear that there are many Brexiteers who would like to go back to an imagined past of imperial superiority. If it were possible, they would emigrate there. What they fail to remember is that the forgotten and the left behind were far, far more left behind then than they are in our modern welfare state, impaired though it is.

    For most people in Britain, prior to the relative wealth of the 1980’s, life was nasty, brutish and short. Under imperial and feudal systems, the vast majority are not in charge, they do not reap the benefits, they do not live lives of comfort and ease. My life today is immeasurably better than the lives of my parents, grandparents and all those who went before; a large part of that has been due to our membership of the EU. Before that, our lives were lives of relative austerity.

    The great benefit of Brexit, for which we should all be thankful, is that it will slay the myth of Britain as a major player on the global stage. It will reveal us as a small, creative, inventive, energetic country, helping us find our realistic place in the modern world. This will enable us to have the comfort of punching at our weight, without the imposition of an illusion that we are punching, or can punch, above it. We will now receive absolutely clear, demonstrative evidence of exactly what Brexit means for the United Kingdom. All we have to do to see the truth is to be patient, clear-sighted and observe.

    I have no doubt that Nigel Farage, Iain Duncan Smith, Mark Francois, and all who deride the EU as the source of all our problems, will first find reasons, then excuses and then just incoherent rage to explain why it isn’t working, but it will be too late. They will be exposed as the irrational, impractical, unintelligent, backward-looking, foam-flecked charlatans that they will be proved to have been all along. Peck is right when he writes that the two sides will not become reconciled; we will not "come back together". If you think Brexiteers are angry now, wait until you see how they behave when the sunny uplands of a newly-triumphant economic powerhouse fail to materialise, then everything really will be Europe’s fault.

    At the same time, it will be an amusing sideshow to watch Boris Johnson and the Tories attempt to be both the Conservative and Unionist Party and the Pretend Labour Party, as they attempt to keep both their old and their new voters onside. If a party, which has been in power for 10 years, cannot plan ahead sufficiently to ensure that Big Ben is available to chime on the night which represents the pinnacle of their achievement, then I give little for their chances of significant success in other, more important, areas.

    Boris is Boris, he will do what he knows, which is to wing it. It'll be riveting as a spectacle but will not work as a political, commercial or international strategy. Tory factional infighting will commence in the spring and will make the ERG (remember them?) look like new-born lambs gambolling in the spring fields of their new lives. Politically, things will get much, much worse before they get better. Still, I look forward to watching the Tories in their terminal decline. After the coming failure and the inevitable extinguishing of their demographic base, these are the twilight times for them.

    The other cause for celebration, as part of the natural way the world works, is that over the next few years a lot of older people (and I write as one) will die and younger, more open, more imaginative people will take the lead. They will be unburdened by the memory of empires, kings and queens, wars, nationalism, shallow patriotism and the old, broken ways and so be free to help us evolve into societies where we all make better choices about how to co-exist on our small planet, preserving it as a blue and green beacon in the dark immensity of space.

    All things pass...and so will Brexit.

    Nick Kell
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    We are all immigrants if you go back several generations.
    My wife is an immigrant- now British.
    She does sterling work.
    Chris
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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    We are all immigrants if you go back several generations.
    My wife is an immigrant- now British.
    She does sterling work.
    Chris
    It's as if the argument is Brexit is anti-immigrant... ??? Rather obtuse. What's wrong with the immigration levels we had before the EU? From India and other parts of the world. It was EU free movement that strangled immigration from the rest of the world, which was an insult to our previous (pre-EU) generations of immigration.

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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    I was responding to a Canadian who said something about immigration in England. This is what is interesting.
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    If I were an Ecuadorian, I'd want Bill Ryan to "go home". The practical issue is that I have no other "home" to go to.


    I think that this is the key bit here and why I get frustrated. People here are framing it like these people have choices. I am willing to bet that if many immigrants had the chance to return to their country, you included apparently, that they would return home. Economic circumstances, and military ones as well, force the situation upon people and this is what makes me sad. For many it is not a choice really it is about trying to make a better life.

    If you do not speak Spanish, how are you aware of the concerns of the locals? How do you know you are merely tolerated? Have you tried learning some Spanish? You might find yourself very welcomed. Bill, Have you done something bad to a local person? Do you have an account that is told about you to other Ecuadorians? If no, then maybe that is the reality for many if not most immigrants. Just people trying to get by in a place maybe they didnt choose and cant leave.



    The history of humanity is a story of constant immigration.

    How many who are concerned with immigrants have ever actually interacted with one and it was negative? Like truly negative, not just their existence bothered you?

    From my personal experience, majority(by alot) are positive. This feels like something like your TV and news telling you to make people an OTHER. Dont listen.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    I was responding to a Canadian who said something about immigration in England. This is what is interesting.
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    If I were an Ecuadorian, I'd want Bill Ryan to "go home". The practical issue is that I have no other "home" to go to.

    If you do not speak Spanish, how are you aware of the concerns of the locals? How do you know you are merely tolerated? Have you tried learning some Spanish? You might find yourself very welcomed. Bill, Have you done something bad to a local person?
    I don't belong here. This is a different culture, very different from my own. (Most misinformed comments about 'race' are really all about culture.)

    And no, I've never done anything 'bad' to a local person. Not the tiniest thing.

    But I can feel their attitude. I'm not that insensitive! Many Ecuadorians are super-nice people. I sometimes meet the local farmers, and their wives and children, when I'm walking with my dog. Some of them are genuinely happy, cheerful, and friendly. Others purposefully look the other way and pointedly ignore me — every time.

    Where I live is their valley that they've lived in for generations. It's me who's out of place here.

    To bring this back to topic (sort of!), this is also very often the problem of immigration. It's all about culture.

    Not 'race', or the color of anyone's skin. And local cultures, with all their historical nuances formed over hundreds of years, are extremely important. We can't put everything into a giant global blender and assume it'll then all be better still.

    95% of what's the very best and the very greatest about all human beings would be lost.

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    Wales Avalon Member
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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    "For most people in Britain, prior to the relative wealth of the 1980’s, life was nasty, brutish and short. Under imperial and feudal systems, the vast majority are not in charge, they do not reap the benefits, they do not live lives of comfort and ease. My life today is immeasurably better than the lives of my parents, grandparents and all those who went before; a large part of that has been due to our membership of the EU. Before that, our lives were lives of relative austerity."

    I disagree with Nick Kell when he says that improvements in living standards are due to being members of the EU. Think about it. Every person I know living today is living better than John D. Rockefeller lived in the 1930s. They are fed better, entertained better, transported better, medically treated better, you name it.

    None of them have the power or prestige Rockefeller had, but if you have the choice of living the life that he could live and the life that they could now live, they’re all better off in every other respect.

    We have advances in technology and unleashing human potential to thank for that, not membership of any political union.

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    UK Avalon Member snoman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The UK left the European Union on 31 Jan, 2020.

    regardless of sensibilities in relation to the rhetoric that each side of the EU stay/leave is espousing
    we have to admit that we are observers of a narrative, of political theatre and there is little certainty
    that our views are anything more useful than a rotten tomatoes rating.

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