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Thread: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

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    United States Avalon Member Mark/Rahkyt's Avatar
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    Default Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    So, these videos have been trending and have gone viral on Youtube lately as people have discovered that humans are pretty different in some fundamental ways.

    The first video discusses the "inner monologue/dialogue", what some have called the "monkey mind" or the waterfall of words, ideas, the ceaseless chatter that exists within. In it, some folks are discovering that there are people in the world who do not have this inner dialogue at all.

    The second video includes the "mind's eye" and the ability to see in one's mind. Some people do not have that capacity.

    I'm curious about PA's thoughts on this and personal experience. I have both, in excess, I think. A constant chatter only held at bay by meditation practice, sitting and walking and by stints of surcease from it at random times during the day or when engaged in concentrative tasks.

    My mind's eye is very active, I was an overindulgent daydreamer back in my Primary and Secondary days and can still get lost in thought and the stories that appear in my mind and take me away.

    I love how these videos reveal the differences between how people think and how it is ok that the differences exist!

    I have been showing my 9th grade reading comprehension classes these videos all day and talking about them with the kids so that they become aware of how fundamentally different people can be. It has been fun watching them discuss it amongst themselves and find out how they are different from some of their close friends. I think it is a good thing to learn about this so early in life.




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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    In my youth I was very over active with thoughts, it felt like that i could have a number of random different thoughts at once and could keep track of them all, like true multiprocessing, and my imagination - it was great, mostly to escape my current world at the time.

    Now as I age and become more and more disillusioned with life, my thoughts slow and become incoherent, I forget the simplest things just mentioned moments ago to me, my imagination is more focused on why things are what they and not what they could be, but i still find it hard how no one can have an inner dialogue?

    So I guess I am still amazed by the foibles of life.

    {quick edit} - for those without inner dialogue, when a favourite song comes on the radio can you sing along in your mind without singing out aloud? I normally do cause my singing voice can curdle milk in the next house..
    Last edited by Craig; 6th February 2020 at 20:39.

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    United States Avalon Member rainsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    That is very interesting! I'm definitely like the dudes in these videos, but it makes me wonder which one my dh is like. I'm going to have to show him these...cause after watching this, I'm beginning to wonder.

    When I meditate, I have to work to not 'talk'. Not hard work, more like exercising a muscle. The more often I do it, the easier it gets. It's often easier to let go of words and visualize stuff...but the girl in the last vid doesn't visualize either!

    What do people who don't visualize or have a "mind's eye" or "inner dialogue" do when they meditate? Is it easier for them? Harder?
    “For always, always, we are waking up and then waking up some more.” ~Sue Monk Kidd

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Quote Posted by Craig (here)
    Now as I age and become more and more disillusioned with life, my thoughts slow and become incoherent, I forget the simplest things just mentioned moments ago to me, my imagination is more focused on why things are what they and not what they could be, but i still find it hard how no one can have an inner dialogue?
    I resonate with your words, Craig. I was and still am, at 52, pretty "over active with thoughts". When I first saw this trailer of the comedian, Dave Chapelle, I thought to myself, OMG THAT IS ME and my wife almost simultaneously said, "That is what you look like, sometimes":



    The images, inner dialogue and mental movies take me away. Your description of how your imagination's focus has shifted during the process of disillusionment with the world as is brings the question to my mind, do you have a meditation practice? Having one can reduce stress, help to strengthen the synaptic connections and increase memory effects.

    It is very difficult to conceptualize the other's way of thinking, Craig, according to the folks who are in these videos. From the way the folks who do not have the inner dialogue speak about it, they think more in abstract concepts and feelings, rather than an actual dialogue and words that they can hear and perhaps see in their mind's eye.
    Last edited by Mark/Rahkyt; 6th February 2020 at 20:51. Reason: added name

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    I first became aware of this when a friend posted an am blog article about it. She was blown away because she had no 'internal monologue' and always assumed the term was just a figure of speech.
    In the article one woman said that she had always wished when she heard internal monologues in movies that it could be like that in real life. So interesting!
    I feel i am kind of between the 2 ways. I have an intetnal monologue, but it is not always words. For example I just heard the bus pick my son up as I was writing this. My internal voice was thinking about what I wanted to say, but I wad also aware of the bus picking him up. The bus part would be more abatract..i.e. my inner voice wasn't saying 'there is the bus....
    The Visualization part is interesting too. I do Quantum healing hypnosis sessions. In these sessions the client is brought into a deep expanded state where they experience a journey that unfolds in their mind's eye. During the preparation stage I ask them to close their eyes and imagine something simple like a red flower. Most people do it easily. So far i have only had 1 client who completely couldn't. We are taught to ask these people to focus on impressions rather than images.

    Though interestingly with that client, once the experience really started to flow she began to be able to see very clearly. This was new and exciting to her. She was in a past life walking up to her brothers cabin on a snowy hill. She exlaimed...'I can see it, I can actually see it!'
    We had just cleared some very old blocks and I'm not sure if that's why she began to be able to visualise, or if it was just due to her expanded state.

    Thanks for shating Mark

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Quote Posted by rainsong (here)
    That is very interesting! I'm definitely like the dudes in these videos, but it makes me wonder which one my dh is like. I'm going to have to show him these...cause after watching this, I'm beginning to wonder.
    Right?! I've been going back in memory and thinking about people who have told me they prefer non-fiction to fiction, that they like movies more than they like books, all of these asides and comments that indicate that they potentially do not have an inner dialogue or have aphantasia and kind of tripping on the fact that it seems to be very common in all actuality, as there are many people I've run across in life that seem to be more firmly grounded and sensible in the truest sense of that word.

    Quote Posted by rainsong (here)
    When I meditate, I have to work to not 'talk'. Not hard work, more like exercising a muscle. The more often I do it, the easier it gets. It's often easier to let go of words and visualize stuff...but the girl in the last vid doesn't visualize either! What do people who don't visualize or have a "mind's eye" or "inner dialogue" do when they meditate? Is it easier for them? Harder?
    I have a similar experience in mediation. It has shifted over time and I've had some amazing breakthroughs during that process. In the second video, the young lady talks about how it is hard for her to meditate, but she explains that she has a hard time because other thoughts come into her mind, so it isn't really clear if her difficulty is qualitatively different from that of folks who do have an inner monologue and who can visualize mentally.

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    I consider myself to have both of these, and I thought that was
    normal for everyone, my teachers at school use to even call me down
    for going off in my mind somewhere, they called it "day dreaming."
    I can have a complete conversation with myself in my mind, and even answer
    myself.

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Rahkyt, I have often thought how little we can know about how the person next to us experiences life. Even though we may be very close, we have no idea of what the present moment looks or feels like to them, though I think we make assumptions that others are like us and our perceptions and experiences. Your idea seems like such a good way to begin to understand that it isn't the same for us all. What might that open up for us? I wish I had been given an opportunity for such an awareness early in life. Great idea, IMO. Diane

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Quote Posted by rainsong (here)
    When I meditate, I have to work to not 'talk'. Not hard work, more like exercising a muscle. The more often I do it, the easier it gets. It's often easier to let go of words and visualize stuff...but the girl in the last vid doesn't visualize either!

    What do people who don't visualize or have a "mind's eye" or "inner dialogue" do when they meditate? Is it easier for them? Harder?
    Dialogue and sound does not bother me, much, but I have almost no visualization capacity.

    It is so bad that on occasion when I manage to tap into the visual sphere, all I get is a volcanic eruption of colors and shapes.

    But with sound am very precise, musical, can learn and control anything about it. Musical creation can also "erupt" like light, and, so, I suppose it is a degree of skill that lets you change either one from raw, subconscious energy, to something purposeful. The opposite of musical creation is probably demonic voices: basically the same thing, without the skill.

    This is something like the "flaw" I had in meditation when younger, and am trying to "fix" now. Being able to easily reach Quiescence, but without reasons, purposes, or meanings, that would go with something successfully visualized.

    But for the most part, meditation stems from Nada or Primordial Sound...and so there really is a non-inner monologue natural sound, or sounds, which is generally the path prior to the dawning of natural or Clear Light. I would assert this is an underlying, physiological fact, which is expressed differently in different methods of training, so what is meant by "meditate" is not the same.

    In our school, it is ok if the visualization is not that great, mine are just fuzzy balls of light. Sound is more of a great threshhold or barrier; this, and the way quiescence emerges through thought as speech. An artistic person might be able to visualize a whole scene plainly, but, that does not really mean they have any ability at this type of meditation. When you begin to Dwell in the Sound, you do.

    From there, I am not sure if anything is exactly "easy", since what we do is not exactly to "improve" Shaberon or Rainsong, but to erase them. Removing the current occupant or ego and replacing it with something not of this world.

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    So, these videos have been trending and have gone viral on Youtube lately as people have discovered that humans are pretty different in some fundamental ways.

    The first video discusses the "inner monologue/dialogue", what some have called the "monkey mind" or the waterfall of words, ideas, the ceaseless chatter that exists within. In it, some folks are discovering that there are people in the world who do not have this inner dialogue at all.

    His girlfriend is the sane one. I was like that until about age 7, then I noticed I was thinking in words. I knew it was not a good thing, but I couldn't stop it. My theory is that as children, as we get overwhelmed by the outer world, our inner world shrinks along with sense of self, and cannot keep out the outer world. Cognitive dissonance, mental noise, mind chatter, etc., is the result.
    Last edited by TomKat; 7th February 2020 at 01:35.

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    I only discovered last year that the whole "internal monologue" thing wasn't a figure of speech. It happened when someone asked me if I think in French, or in English. I told them "Neither", because, well, I don't think in words, at all. For words to enter my mind, I have to be actively, consciously doing so (let's say I'm making a to-do list in my head). I never have a narrator, voicing my thoughts, like you see in movies. I always thought that was just a motif used in media to adequately convey thoughts. It never occurred to me to take it literally.

    When the person heard my answer, it blew their mind. When I realized most people, do, indeed, think in words, it blew mine. I asked about 30 people after that, if they thought in words, and every last one of them said they do, and gave me a puzzled look for even asking.

    Bizarre.

    Oddly enough, my father doesn't have an internal monologue either, which lends me to believe it may be genetic.

    Now, I find myself wondering what the hell other people have been doing different their whole lives, without others realizing it.

    I also recently discovered I have ADD. I wouldn't be surprised if the two are linked. Hell, maybe the ADD is the lack of internal dialogue itself. Like a different programming language of the brain.
    Last edited by Tam; 7th February 2020 at 04:52. Reason: typo

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    WOW, great PO Rahkyt.

    Now at 60, I'm more a thinker in words as my minds first language.
    But I can easily hold and construct images, complex visuals while in actual conversation with some one.
    Who out of the two can invent better and bring new information into the world
    This is one aspect of being (in the past) a pot smoker, such a great tool/key to open both sides up.
    As for meditation I can almost instantly shut/stop, puss aside the talking mind

    I like to explore using both.
    With visualisation could you be a energy healer? Visualising combined with energy direction.

    great post thanks.

    BTW I spell one hundred percent perfect in my mind, real life I'm bad man, the word 'puss' above being a good example.
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    I only discovered last year that the whole "internal monologue" thing wasn't a figure of speech. It happened when someone asked me if I think in French, or in English. I told them "Neither", because, well, I don't think in words, at all. For words to enter my mind, I have to be actively, consciously doing so (let's say I'm making a to-do list in my head). I never have a narrator, voicing my thoughts, like you see in movies. I always thought that was just a motif used in media to adequately convey thoughts. It never occurred to me to take it literally.

    When the person heard my answer, it blew their mind. When I realized most people, do, indeed, think in words, it blew mine. I asked about 30 people after that, if they thought in words, and every last one of them said they do, and gave me a puzzled look for even asking.

    Bizarre.

    Oddly enough, my father doesn't have an internal monologue either, which lends me to believe it may be genetic.

    Now, I find myself wondering what the hell other people have been doing different their whole lives, without others realizing it.

    I also recently discovered I have ADD. I wouldn't be surprised if the two are linked. Hell, maybe the ADD is the lack of internal dialogue itself. Like a different programming language of the brain.
    I no longer think in words, but the ADD thing makes sense. When I used to think in words, I think it was a compulsion to nail down and ground my thoughts. For people who think in words, they should observe themselves. They might find they are thinking WAY faster without words BEFORE they translate thought into words.

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Really interesting thread. I have absolutely no ability to visualize at all. I never really thought about it until I read an article talking about people that can't visualize.

    If I really want to concentrate on an object such as an apple, I focus on sense properties of that item at an intellectual level but never see a dang thing in my mind's eye. I find it interesting that I do have really vivid dreams that can be very colorful so the capacity seems to be there. I believe this lack of ability has probably limited me in more ways than I realize.

    As far as inner dialogue goes, I used to be tortured by the incessant and uncontrolled nature of it, even as a teenager. After coming to understand what most of it was it has dropped significantly. I can go for periods of time with little or no inner dialogue as long as I stay in the present moment, although it is not under my control at all times.
    Last edited by Pam; 7th February 2020 at 20:48.

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    I have an intetnal monologue, but it is not always words. For example I just heard the bus pick my son up as I was writing this. My internal voice was thinking about what I wanted to say, but I wad also aware of the bus picking him up. The bus part would be more abatract..i.e. my inner voice wasn't saying 'there is the bus....
    Hey Enfolded One, I am familiar with that leveling effect as well, and am not sure exactly how to characterize it. Being engaged in a conversation, for instance, and being aware of a number of different things going on around you consciously, like other people nearby, the sound of conversation and maybe cars in the background, the heat on one's skin if outside, the cool of air conditioning. At some points I've found it possible to be holistically engaged in my environment in that way and it has been a marked experience of being totally present and here in the Now moment. They have been memorable as such. The mind doesn't have to consciously "say" in this inner monologue fashion, that we are aware of these other things, but there is this tacit awareness and acknowledgement of their presence.

    Quote Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
    I do Quantum healing hypnosis sessions. In these sessions the client is brought into a deep expanded state where they experience a journey that unfolds in their mind's eye. During the preparation stage I ask them to close their eyes and imagine something simple like a red flower. Most people do it easily. So far i have only had 1 client who completely couldn't. We are taught to ask these people to focus on impressions rather than images.
    I used to work with clients doing similar work with the mother of my youngest son, Sirayah Mai, who still does that work. Our dual work was from the energies of the Divine Feminine, which she of course represented and I, the Divine Masculine and we sought the restoration of balance within our client's spiritual and psychic fields, as a key goal. Once, we had a client who also could not do the visualization and as this was the first time either of us had ever come across this it was difficult for us to work with her. It sounds like your process includes other practitioners and a formal response which is what we actually did, as well, getting her to concentrate on her idea of the image, however that appeared to her. It was an effective way of ushering her through the energies, we found.

    Quote Posted by Sadieblue (here)
    I consider myself to have both of these, and I thought that was
    normal for everyone, my teachers at school use to even call me down
    for going off in my mind somewhere, they called it "day dreaming."
    I totally relate to that, teachers used to write that on my progress reports!

    Quote Posted by wondering (here)
    Rahkyt, I have often thought how little we can know about how the person next to us experiences life. Even though we may be very close, we have no idea of what the present moment looks or feels like to them, though I think we make assumptions that others are like us and our perceptions and experiences. Your idea seems like such a good way to begin to understand that it isn't the same for us all. What might that open up for us? I wish I had been given an opportunity for such an awareness early in life. Great idea, IMO. Diane
    Hey wondering, it was a very interesting discussion, but they are 14 and 15 year olds, and therefore are also very reactive, with their still forming frontal lobes and lack of impulse control. It was necessary for me to guide the conversation carefully as I became more experienced with the range of responses as the day progressed, so that, by the last classroom, I began the session with a warning to be mindful of their language, that people are the same within even as we all have different capacities. To the extent that they could grasp it, I also gave a short talk about Gardner's 8 Intelligences theory, just to give them a bit of context for the difference between people and how we all learn and they got it, considering they are all in my reading comprehension classes for a reason. It was, overall, a great discussion and I think I was able to expanding their understanding of the sheer mystery of life and the diversity of the human family by engaging in it.
    Last edited by Mark/Rahkyt; 7th February 2020 at 15:22. Reason: grammar

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    United States Avalon Member Mark/Rahkyt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    His girlfriend is the sane one. I was like that until about age 7, then I noticed I was thinking in words. I knew it was not a good thing, but I couldn't stop it. My theory is that as children, as we get overwhelmed by the outer world, our inner world shrinks along with sense of self, and cannot keep out the outer world. Cognitive dissonance, mental noise, mind chatter, etc., is the result.
    Interesting theory. You stated that the "inner world shrinks along with sense of self". Does self, in this conception, equate to ego? Are you stating that the ego/self shrinks as we age and the external environmental influence becomes predominant in some people and not in others?

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    When the person heard my answer, it blew their mind. When I realized most people, do, indeed, think in words, it blew mine. I asked about 30 people after that, if they thought in words, and every last one of them said they do, and gave me a puzzled look for even asking.
    There is really no scientific work that I have found that has been done on this topic. But then, I haven't explored it too deeply yet. It seems important enough that, at some point, someone might have done some experimentation to discover the parameters of these processes in the human family. In looking just now, I've found this and this.

    Quote Posted by Sunny-side-up (here)
    With visualisation could you be a energy healer? Visualising combined with energy direction.
    In my life experience, yes, you can. Although, it wouldn't be absolutely necessary as it is possible to work conceptually with energy as well.

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    When the person heard my answer, it blew their mind. When I realized most people, do, indeed, think in words, it blew mine. I asked about 30 people after that, if they thought in words, and every last one of them said they do, and gave me a puzzled look for even asking.
    I found an article that talks about it finally. This viral conversation has opened it up, which is really interesting as I believe that this is an ancient difference in the human family, one that is not new.

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    Oddly enough, my father doesn't have an internal monologue either, which lends me to believe it may be genetic.

    Now, I find myself wondering what the hell other people have been doing different their whole lives, without others realizing it.
    It could very well be, but also, it may not be for an entire family. I believe my sister does not hear an inner monologue either, while I most certainly do. There are certain personality differences that seem to indicate that one is inclined more in one direction than another, although it also seems to be a gradient in some ways. It is certainly an interesting area of study and one that could shed light on many areas that have been resistant to understanding for a long time!


    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    I no longer think in words, but the ADD thing makes sense. When I used to think in words, I think it was a compulsion to nail down and ground my thoughts. For people who think in words, they should observe themselves. They might find they are thinking WAY faster without words BEFORE they translate thought into words.
    Interesting. May I ask, how did you stop yourself from thinking in words?

    Quote Posted by peterpam (here)
    If I really want to concentrate on an object such as and apple, I focus on sense properties of that item at an intellectual level but never see a dang thing in my mind's eye. I find it interesting that I do have really vivid dreams that can be very colorful so the capacity seems to be there. I believe this lack of ability has probably limited me in more ways than I realize.
    As I believe that this phenomenon is natural, I am not certain if "limitation" is applicable, here. It just seems to be a different method of cognition, utilized by some humans naturally, which means there are strengths associated with it as well. Strengths that those who visualize to the extreme, like me, do not have.
    Last edited by Mark/Rahkyt; 7th February 2020 at 16:21. Reason: fix quote

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    UK Avalon Member Sunny-side-up's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Just adding:
    Colours, images, sound, music even words can be translated and give you emotions.
    Emotions can be translated into: colours, images, sound, music even words.
    All are part of our interface with this realm, some probably from other non material realms.

    Music has a real power to bypass self will of mind, to control ones thoughts, ever had that one tune, singing you can't get out of your mind Grr
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    Finland Avalon Member Wind's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Absolutely fascinating, it's hard to believe that something like this is possible. Except for enlightened beings, that is.

    Besides having conversations with myself in my head, I visualize a lot. I also see numbers in colors. I thought that everyone does it too!
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    I once started a thread titled 'very few people can actually think'. And it was based on something a famous clinical psychologist had said.

    I didn't completely understand what he meant until I attempted to think about it. And as i tried to think about it, my mind wandered in half a dozen different directions. Eventually I'd find my way back to the original thought, and then my mind would wander again. And then I realized exactly what he meant.

    And the gist of it was this: unless you're speaking to someone or writing your thoughts out, it's very very difficult to maintain a consistent thread in your mind, whether you think in words or pictures.

    There's an ex con youtuber named Wes Watson, and he often talks about having a strong "witness", which is the name he gives to that part of our mind that is aware of all the chatter and just sort of watches it come and go as it stands outside of it. It's a very useful tool.

    I think mostly in words. But then again, i might have an impulse to do something, like pay a bill, and it doesn't require any inner dialogue at all. Nor do I envision paying it in my mind. There is neither words nor pictures. I'm simply given a nudge by my subconscious perhaps, and then I act on it.

    I think practical matters are better thought out in words. These are things that, it would seem to me anyway, simply have to be thought out this way. Creative processess are likely better implemented thru mental pictures and so forth. Abstractions should be left to the subconscious maybe. You'll often hear brilliant artists and creative people lament not being able to navigate the world. And I think it's because their thought process isn't suited to it. On the flip side, words thinkers aren't terribly creative, in general. Unless they're writers maybe.

    But you can train yourself to do both. That's likely a whole other thread tho.
    Last edited by Mike; 7th February 2020 at 23:23.

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Interesting theory. You stated that the "inner world shrinks along with sense of self". Does self, in this conception, equate to ego? Are you stating that the ego/self shrinks as we age and the external environmental influence becomes predominant in some people and not in others?
    I'll stay away from the definition of ego. But babies tend to have very large energy/personality fields that encompass their whole bodies. As that personality field withdraws from life's insults and shrinks inward, and partially solidifies, it attracts parasites which claim their own space in the body, have competing or even antagonistic thoughts. One might find himself trying to nail down which thoughts are his own by thinking more concretely, in words.

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    May I ask, how did you stop yourself from thinking in words?
    I didn't really stop. But years of expelling entities and dissolving the solidity that entities attach to caused it to gradually fade away. I still think in words if I'm thinking of what I'm going to say. But thinking in general is overrated and compulsive thinking is, in my case, a way to keep from feeling (part of that shrinking).
    Last edited by TomKat; 8th February 2020 at 03:58.

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