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Thread: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

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    United States Avalon Member earthdreamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    So my internal dialogue responds to this thread and drags me out of bed, after scrolling my phone under the covers while my spouse is snoring. "To post or not to post", so I am typing, my internal dialogue does not command me, my thoughts edit the stream of consciousness, Kerouac a tangent thought reference, probably occurred to you too when you saw the phrase "stream of consciousness".
    My first thought was the advice or teaching that Don Juan gave to Carlos Castenada: stop the internal dialogue to stop the world in effect. So those eastern derived meditations also point the way to glimpse the axis, wheel, from the empty vessel, plain awareness, simple witness. So my thought is that the unceasing thoughts are a buffer, another zone of energy sizzling around the body, tentacles mingling psychically, synchronistically, perhaps sometimes dreadfully, unhelpfully or full of destiny, microbially or epically . Waves upon the sands, time .... "waits for no one", clichés, touches, brains being receptacles in the energy fields, thinking, breathing, blood beating, streams unceasing. The internal goes external through the mouth, through these typing fingers, we make clear the unsung clouded by perspective, perception.

    So the waxing to almost full moon has me up to contribute to this thread of internal monologue-ing, dialoging and how some are divergent of this type thinking. Maybe hard to believe as some of us are so addicted to words, maybe since we learned to read, or felt separated and independent. Auto-pilot living or great studious concentration can seem to hold the chatter at bay, and time passes.

    I will have to check out the vids later......meanwhile I wish you all well with your own internal symbol interpreting of consciousness. Maybe I can shut down this internal buzzing and sleep.....you know when you're about to drift off, how thought seems to cease, or is it losing consciousness, deep diving....like how modern science still doesn't even understand how anesthesia really works on the consciousness, and do you ever feel like there is a magnetic tape continuously running with the streams of thought and sometimes you can hear it as it split second stops, microsecond pause to restart and keep flowing, like life and death....singing pitches of electricity, brain cells.........

    posting.....

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Well I can’t give up the ghost quite yet though I’m back in bed with my phone to add a forgotten element to my riff. I just want to add how music is also a most compelling pleasure of our senses that can quiet or alter the current of thought patterns playing in the mind. Musicians and athletes get in “the zone “. Collectively we can abandon our individual heads temporarily through music loud enough to rock our worlds. So I also remembered that Don Juan’s message to Castenada about turning off the internal dialogue is not to stop the world, but to get off. Leaving behind our string of words, escaping the “buffer” to open a new state of consciousness. As the unknown can hold our greatest fears, this leap, perhaps this great divide is only a nanosecond, the potential.........possibilities...... imagination or an unfathomable reality? where language does not exist....

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Gary Douglas of Access Consciousness has a technique for stopping the internal dialogue. It takes 3 days. Pay attention to your thoughts and for every thought, ask, "who does this belong to?" Nothing more. But for 3 days in a row. I suspect it would work better if you were alone or mostly alone.

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    United States Avalon Member earthdreamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    There is much advice floating about on how to examine, stem, transcend the inner thinking aloud. All worthy pursuits surely. Awareness awareness awareness

    I just felt compelled to clarify, expand on my previous post, as I keep reflecting on the thread of my thoughts carried over from my sleepless night. Not that anyone is asking but it nags me ('s why I don't like to post a lot, too much nagging riding my consciousness). As to the ideas of MUSIC overcoming the inner voice: that it is not just "loud" music but music or experience that enraptures, engages one's attention to the exclusion of one's intellectual thoughts, where a concert or dance or chant vibes with one's spirit so that it is possible to tune out oneself and join a group consciousness. Where there IS freedom of thought, one is not simply drowning, one isn't being tortured by loudness, but one is willingly drawn, attracted, to mutually encompassing experience. The appeal of being an audience member can reside in the desire to "forget oneself". Yet rather than just escapism, our individual self is enhanced from the temporary immersion.

    The infinity Mobius loop feels an apt metaphor for thoughts about thinking thoughts.

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Dear Rahkyt: re Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye
    This is an utter revelation to me. Already I have had to phone up members of my family and ask them do they, or do they not have an internal monologue. That there are people who don't is incomprehensible to me. Also that some people do not have mind pictures and cannot visualize is astounding. These two videos are so instructive in how these people function in the world. I can think back on some of my dealings with friends, or colleagues, and if I apply that scenario, the whole way certain situations played out makes much more sense.
    Truly Joe South....."Walk a Mile in My Shoes."........"before you abuse, criticize and accuse, walk a mile in my shoes."

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    TomKat:.............that is a brilliant tool in Access. They say "thinking is stinking." The tool "Who does this belong to?" can create so much space in one's mind. It can eliminate all sorts of aches and pains as well. I do not any more assume that what I have got going on, mental or physical, belongs to me. We are all just radio receivers. The more sensitive we are, the more we can turn into different frequencies, picking up all sort of pains and pathways of other people. And then there is what is stored in the DNA. The first time I did a hands on body class in Access, I was confronted by waves of grief and images from the First World War. I quickly realised these were my Grandfather's memories (!!) He had been dead for thirty years or more, but I had memory after traumatic memory show like a slide show in my brain. Clearly they did not belong to me, but were encoded either in my DNA or my energetic field because I was the kid who was close to him emotionally. He never said ONE WORD about the war, mind you.

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Quote Posted by earthdreamer (here)
    Musicians and athletes get in “the zone “.

    This is what I have found, or, it is what I put most of my energy into when I was younger.

    Much like the folks who didn't know about whether others did or did not have an inner monologue or visualization ability, I just don't really know or understand why anyone would do anything else other than what you just said. In my experience, neither is visual, but both can replace inner monologue very easily. By "athletic" I might just mean "highly physical", or geometric, for instance on a driving route, I can learn how it looks much quicker than remember the names of the streets. Then I am going to say sex is the same. At that point I have enumerated almost everything I have ever done, approximately three things. I don't understand why someone wouldn't. I can understand that someone might not carry a monologue, or could visualize much better than me, but would be unable to fathom why they might not care for those three things. I for one feel a rhythm, a pulse, and it just seems to me that many non-musical humans are a "dead zone" and harmful to inspiration.

    Sometimes I have wondered how much of it has to do with "screaming kids". When I first started pre-school, it seemed like there were a handful of us that were sort of quiet, and most of the kids would shriek if a butterfly was near their elbow, or the door opened, or anything, all the time. So I quickly gravitated towards those who did not make a bunch of noise about nothing. Appears to be a strong personality difference that took place immediately and has never changed.

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    I only discovered last year that the whole "internal monologue" thing wasn't a figure of speech. It happened when someone asked me if I think in French, or in English. I told them "Neither", because, well, I don't think in words, at all. For words to enter my mind, I have to be actively, consciously doing so (let's say I'm making a to-do list in my head). I never have a narrator, voicing my thoughts, like you see in movies. I always thought that was just a motif used in media to adequately convey thoughts. It never occurred to me to take it literally.

    When the person heard my answer, it blew their mind. When I realized most people, do, indeed, think in words, it blew mine. I asked about 30 people after that, if they thought in words, and every last one of them said they do, and gave me a puzzled look for even asking.

    Bizarre.

    Oddly enough, my father doesn't have an internal monologue either, which lends me to believe it may be genetic.

    Now, I find myself wondering what the hell other people have been doing different their whole lives, without others realizing it.

    I also recently discovered I have ADD. I wouldn't be surprised if the two are linked. Hell, maybe the ADD is the lack of internal dialogue itself. Like a different programming language of the brain.
    I no longer think in words, but the ADD thing makes sense. When I used to think in words, I think it was a compulsion to nail down and ground my thoughts. For people who think in words, they should observe themselves. They might find they are thinking WAY faster without words BEFORE they translate thought into words.
    I've done some speed-writing challenges, like... absurd writing stunts, I wrote 8000 words of fiction in an hour once. Now obviously I had to gear up for that insanity, and one of the things that I had to learn to do was to not think in words when I was outputting fiction, but to switch my routine to go straight from my head into my fingers. Otherwise I would have been thinking too slow to keep up with that pace.

    By default I have an inner narrative but I can exploit non-narrative thoughts for forcing myself to get things done. When you're always chatting with yourself in your head, it's easy to overthink everything. I exchange far more words silently in my mind than I do outside, and what I'd do without that inner world is a mystery to me!

    Anyway, yes, I hold there is a translation process of thought into word, and if you can silence that, you can get more done, because the word-thinking isn't getting in the way. With how it slows our reflexes, I feel in some small way words are a virus, language being that which separates us from animals and prevents us from achieving the strengths of animals. Our memory processing time is reduced, for example. Our speed. Our reaction time. Thought may let us enter complicated realms in a simulation but it can also keep me from getting anything done... I overthink on a regular basis.

    However, entering the 'zone', the 'flow', it's a powerful thing. I've had past success with 'who does this belong to' for clearing my mind but nothing works better than music to jolt me into the correct writing headspace!
    May the Force be with you.

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    May I ask, how did you stop yourself from thinking in words?
    I didn't really stop. But years of expelling entities and dissolving the solidity that entities attach to caused it to gradually fade away. I still think in words if I'm thinking of what I'm going to say. But thinking in general is overrated and compulsive thinking is, in my case, a way to keep from feeling (part of that shrinking).
    So it is your understanding that the ceaseless inner monologue is potentially caused by invading entities?

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Quote Posted by earthdreamer (here)
    My first thought was the advice or teaching that Don Juan gave to Carlos Castenada: stop the internal dialogue to stop the world in effect.
    For those unfamiliar with the advice that Don Juan gave Casteneda:

    Quote "Long ago, the native sorcerer/shamans of Mexico discovered that we have a companion for life," he said, as clearly as he could.
    "We have a predator that came from the depths of the cosmos, and took over the rule of our lives. Human beings are its prisoners. The predator is our lord and master. It has rendered us docile; helpless. If we want to protest, it suppresses our protest. If we want to act independently, it demands that we don't do so."
    Quote "I want to appeal to your analytical mind. Think for a moment, and tell me how you would explain the contradiction between the intelligence of man the engineer, and the stupidity of his systems of beliefs; or the stupidity of his contradictory behavior.
    Sorcerers believe that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs; our ideas of good and evil; our social mores. The predators are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations, and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed, and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary, and egomaniacal."
    "But how can they do this, don Juan?" I asked, somehow angered further by what he was saying. "Do they whisper all that in our ears while we are asleep?"
    "No, they don't do it that way. That's idiotic!" don Juan said, smiling. "They are infinitely more efficient and organized than that. In order to keep us obedient, meek and weak, the predators engaged themselves in a stupendous maneuver - stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist; a horrendous maneuver from the point of view of those who suffer it. They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind which becomes our mind. The predators' mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, and filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now.
    "I know that even though you have never suffered hunger," he went on, "you have food anxiety which is none other than the anxiety of the predator who fears that any moment now its maneuver is going to be uncovered, and its food is going to be denied. Through the mind, which after all is their mind, the predators inject into the lives of human beings whatever is convenient for them. The predators ensure in this manner a degree of security to act as a buffer against their fear."
    "It's not that I can't accept all this at face value, don Juan," I said. "I could, but there's something so odious about it that it actually repels me. It forces me to take a contradictory stand. "If it's true that they eat us, how do they do it?"
    Quote "Sorcerers say that discipline makes the glowing coat of awareness unpalatable to the flyer.
    The result is that the predators become bewildered. An inedible glowing coat of awareness is not part of their cognition, I suppose. After being bewildered, they don't have any recourse other than refraining from continuing their nefarious task. If the predators don't eat our glowing coat of awareness for a while, it will keep on growing.
    "Simplifying this matter to the extreme, I can say that sorcerers, by means of their discipline, push the predators away long enough to allow their glowing coat of awareness to grow beyond the level of the toes. Once it goes beyond the level of the toes, it grows back to its natural size.
    The sorcerers of ancient Mexico used to say that the glowing coat of awareness is like a tree. If it is not pruned, it grows to its natural size and volume. As awareness reaches levels higher than the toes, tremendous maneuvers of perception become a matter of course.
    "The grand trick of those sorcerers of ancient times was to burden the flyers' mind with discipline. Sorcerers found out that if they taxed the flyers' mind with inner silence, the foreign installation would flee, and give any one of the practitioners involved in this maneuver the total certainty of the mind's foreign origin.
    The [alien mind control of these creatures] comes back, I assure you, but not as strong; and a process begins in which the fleeing of the flyers' mind becomes routine until one day it flees permanently.
    "That's the day when you have to rely on your own devices which are nearly zero. A sad day indeed! There's no one to tell you what to do. There's no mind of foreign origin to dictate the imbecilities you're accustomed to. My teacher, the nagual Julian, used to warn all his disciples that this was the toughest day in a sorcerer's life for the real mind that belongs to us. The sum total of our experience after a lifetime of domination has been rendered shy, insecure, and shifty.
    Personally, I would say that the real battle of sorcerers begins at that moment. The rest is merely preparation."

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    I would not talk about “the monkey mind”, cause it seems that you have a low mind and a high mind, which in my opinion is not accurate. I would take about one whole mind, and this mind has thoughts. The most important thing is if these thoughts are leading you to where you want to go, or not. Human brain is divided in two hemispheres: the right one thinks in images, pictures and abstract concepts. The left one thinks in words, concrete and logical things. If you think more about images, you’re a right-minded person, and if you think more in words, you’re a left-minded person. But I don’t think this is the most important thing to worry about. Our thoughts are creating our reality so I would care about if they are driving you to a good place or not. Observing your thoughts without judging them as “low or high” or “right or wrong” or “good or bad”... Observing our thoughts without judging them is using the Mind’s Eye, which is your Soul, your consciousness.
    Your beliefs make your decisions. Your decisions create your future. So your beliefs are your destiny. If you or someone else changes your mind, this changes your future.

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Quote Posted by Marta (here)
    I would not talk about “the monkey mind”, cause it seems that you have a low mind and a high mind, which in my opinion is not accurate.
    Welcome to Avalon Marta and thank you for your input. It is an accepted phrase in the tradition of mindfulness. Thank you for sharing your thoughts about it and for the discourse on the functions of the mind. Blessings!

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Rather than Monkey Mind, many of our newer translations are using Discursive Thought.

    I did not know what it means!

    discursive. wandering from one topic to another; skimming over many apparently unconnected subjects; rambling; desultory; digressive. based on the conscious use of reasoning rather than on intuition.

    Discursive Thought and Harmful Emotions cause Vrittis, which, I do not think there is any translation for. Meaning "whirlpools", but, in the sense of nerve impulses being agitated from calm abiding to something that can be physically perceived as disorder and discomfort. Like if you get so mad you start shaking, those are extreme vrittis; but if you are just sitting there and feel a bit twitchy, or called and distracted by things, those are fairly normal vrittis. But we do not really want any.

    The action of these cause Water Poison, which is a glue, or solidity, adhering to external objects.

    When attention and energy is fixed on the outer, then, all that can result is a tumult of those symptoms.

    So for instance, if attention is placed on television, this is the main reason our visualization ability has been killed. In the old days of story telling, if someone said "horses in a pasture", everyone could see it mentally. I can probably do it in a few years if I put some effort into it.

    Utter elimination of vrittis is the goal of any Yoga school. And when this happens, one definitely can enter a state where sound and light as we know them melt, or peel, and it is not really the astral plane, which is more like a blueprint of the physical. From that point, the schools are very different, and so in Buddhist Yoga one is not really seeking Liberation, but more of an exemption to the vrittis process so that one returns to the ordinary world with a clean view of the speech making process and everything one says becomes a form of Purified Speech, like it is all a kind of beneficial spell casting.

    It applies to all of the senses, and so for example the Taste of craving a beer every few minutes, makes all kinds of vrittis and water poison that doesn't happen if you just moderately eat and drink what you need without craving or attachment.

    With the engineered addictive foodstuffs served around here, it is not too hard to see that Taste for fast food item x will unleash hordes of nervous impulses that start making their own words in your mind continuum. In that sense, you start becoming glued to whatever someone else decided to put there.

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    Default Re: Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye

    Quote Posted by Meryl (here)
    Dear Rahkyt: re Inner Monologue and the Mind's Eye
    This is an utter revelation to me. Already I have had to phone up members of my family and ask them do they, or do they not have an internal monologue. That there are people who don't is incomprehensible to me.
    Hi Meryl, thanks for responding. What have you found, with your family? I have been finding in my experience that it varies, one of my sisters does not have an inner voice, while the other one does. Some of my friends whom, after learning about this, I thought might not, actually do not, and others do. It is difficult to understand sometimes, when people are describing how they think, whether they do or not because everyone seems to have the capability to "create" the inner voice at will, we all tell ourselves to think something and we can do it. But the constant chatter that speaks to us in our own voice, or sometimes others for some folks, is sometimes a bit harder to clarify because you never really know if another person's descriptions match your understanding of the words they are saying. Does that make sense? As an illustration, I've had a couple of people say to me they have the inner voice, but their difficulty in describing it makes me think they don't and it is as if they think it is a detriment "not" to have it when it is not, just a different method of cognition more emotive and sensory in nature with its own benefits and advantages.

    Quote Posted by Meryl (here)
    Also that some people do not have mind pictures and cannot visualize is astounding. These two videos are so instructive in how these people function in the world. I can think back on some of my dealings with friends, or colleagues, and if I apply that scenario, the whole way certain situations played out makes much more sense.
    Truly Joe South....."Walk a Mile in My Shoes."........"before you abuse, criticize and accuse, walk a mile in my shoes."
    I do not know if they go together and are related, or not. But if we, as humans, exist on a gradient, then I think perhaps there are variations of capacity across the spectrum of ability within our vast human family. For me, one who exists within a febrile field of imagery and imaginative expansiveness, it is also difficult to conceive of the mental life of folks who conceptualize differently. But that it occurs is a beautiful testament to potentiality and makes me wonder what else is going on out there and in there, outside of me and my way of being in the world.

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