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Thread: Jordan Peterson Update

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    Quote Posted by Sammy (here)
    Quote Posted by ExomatrixTV (here)
    I lost my TwinFlame aka Soulmate December 2019 suicide probably because of her using Benzodiazepine is taking away to be able to feel and that can even be more frightening for some one who already has General Anxiety Disorder.
    I'm really sorry John.

    When I lost my father to suicide (over 40 years ago), it was devastating. Interestingly, "my sub conscious" and my most deepest desires colluded to generate "synchronicity confirmations" of a potential "other" explanation behind his death. Yet, in the end, its my conclusion a convergence of factors supporting a predisposition and the factor of the loss of his wife (and true love) just three months prior combined to send my father over the tipping point. I love him and miss him today as the day I lost him.

    I am really glad you are here and that you share so much, even the most difficult of personal experiences. Sam



    Sammy, as usual, I applaud your willingness to share even the most painful experiences in your life. I view you as a traveler too, like Peterson, who has been to some very horrifying places and returned in one piece to share your knowledge with the world. It's impressive.

    and John, man oh man, what a gut punch there! so sorry to hear about the loss of your loved one to benzos. but I appreciate you sharing that here. I think it's important

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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    I found this video really informative regarding the process of Benzodiazapine physical dependence vs. addiction. Watching this will really make you think twice before ever taking them.

    I think of the endless suffering that has occurred due to this class of drugs. Somehow the medic/pharma complex just gets to walk away unscathed and unaccountable for it while they count the profits.

    Physician Assistant Commentary on Jordan B Peterson Update - Feb 2020



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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    Yes, Delight, I was referring to the use of Ibogaine for the cure of that specific "ailment". I would never suggest it be done without the use of a health professional, but I see why some have chosen to be among the living and do it without such help when there is none around. Though there are many highly successful treatments, like the Iboga plant, there is no cure-all and never has been. The whole lifestyle changes out of necessity. This goes for all chemical addictions/physical dependencies.

    The very interesting result during the process of using this one plant is the effect upon the soul, so powerful it rarely is repeated in a lifetime. Every one I have listened to, have known, has related that the experience shows the experiencer many, if not all, of the times that they have injured, hurt, attacked, insulted, and used even the most seemingly innocent barb that had a negative impact upon another persons life.

    That 1st person experience of the result of one's own callous nature imprints itself so dramatically upon the experiencer that it's power remains within to prevent self harm. It transcends the abusive use of guilt, both from religious dogma and some insidious stepped up and stepped down treatment protocols that are shamelessly emptied of the bio-chemical and nutritional core protocols of their founders. These abuses still dominate most social discourse about addiction.

    I have never looked at an addiction as something that has a social stigma to it, especially growing up with those friends and family who have died from the use and abuse of many things. They all needed help and didn't get it. I never left their side even when they left mine.

    A friend in high school died from inhaling oven cleaner. Close family members, father, sister, brother in law, wife (ex-wife at the end), have died from alcohol and drug addictions, while others have lived amongst the walking dead wrapped in the shells of their chemical, physical and spiritual darkness. The use of an attached stigma is always from those who consider many addictions as choices or a test of will power and not primarily adaptations to many of life's most difficult challenges. How do we deal with those challenges?

    The paths to self healing are many and they involve all aspects of being, some easily understood, others require deep inquiry, while many die at the inquest, only to be taken as lessons to be shared with the living. Being born with an addiction to nicotine, then "curing" it at the age of 3 by one deep inhale, predisposed me to having a visceral repulsion and nonjudgmental experience of dependence and it's cures.

    How is any dependency that causes any problem not an addiction to be treated with the appropriate decrease in dosage, as a way to lessen the severity of withdrawal, and thereby prevent more severe illness or death? If the use of the phrase "physical dependency" replaces the term addiction as a means to emphasize the need to very slowly decrease the dosage who cares? However, considering any addiction to not be a physical dependency takes out the obvious. The signatures of both definitions are there to be measured in the body.

    I do get what the health professional is saying when she talks about the semantic use of these definitions to contrast the severity of the illness caused by the use of different drugs, yet I also don't need the pc version of the truth to know the difference. I've never been curious as to why people do not consider profound personal experiences to also be chemically connected. How could that be, anyway?

    If caught in the use of benzodiazepines remember to slowly decrease their use under the care of a qualified physician and to increase the curatives in your life, your nutrition, your daily movement, your self-acceptance, your forgiveness, your positive social environment, your purpose. How is that any different than any other misprescribed dependence? Love and be loved.

    I call the misuse of the word "paradoxical" another semantic word f**k, from those admen at the Word F**k Factory, the same as those ads seen and heard that sell anti-depressants and include the "paradox" that you may become so effin' depressed using a prescribed anti-depressant that you'll commit suicide. Yep, that's a paradox alright. I suggest that all ad men be legally required to use the prescribable/legal/corporate created poisons they sell. We'll call the law the Bill Hicks Consumer Fair Treatment Act.

    These are my personal experiences listening to those, being with those, seeing those who personally relate their healing with it, along with the expected life changes that they always choose.

    Whoever said it cannot be used successfully for the treatment of benzo addiction is uninformed, has blocked the results of the earlier f.d.a. approved trials, has never seen it used for that and other addictions, has a monetary agenda for keeping other drug or facility treatments in popular use, works for a regulatory agency involved, or.......WTF ever.
    (I'm glad that I have the time, at least now, to edit my sharing and tone this down quite a bit.)

    I have seen the years of very different, now much more calm, happy, appreciative, aware, insightful and inspiring people who used to be the heaviest addicts I have known, all whose success has been based on the use of that plant and other nutrients in combination with changing their social connections and who all now eat a much more complete diet. It does not happen in a vacuum. Because it is so deep it affects all aspects of a life and the lives of those who are close.

    There is no comparison between the person who all have given up on and the one who has been given a way out and into living again. You see it in their face, their skin, their eyes, their posture and the depth of calm they now carry, likely forever. This struck a cord in me reminding me of why I am in this body.


    As Mike relates so well, it is often, to my dislike but acceptance, that even those of us who have no internal need to experience the depths of despair and addiction-tho those times may be very, very short, have been placed in the position because that it is the only way to learn the true language that the soul speaks when it is left out in the cold, away from it's true nature amongst the living. It may not have been possible for me to begin understanding any of this had I not experienced those life and death times under the pressure of those dark ocean trenches, even as short as they were.

    For me, I wonder if Jordon has any friends like me. I wrote the post as if I was talking to a friend, like I have talked to some of mine. I started off with the carnivore thing that Jordon took on for a while because it is an extreme dietary switch to have. I don't know when in the timeline of his troubles he chose to meat it out, but anytime would cause a dramatic change in his chemistry. It is very obtuse to go there when there is so much stress in your life, so much responsibility and truly the responsibility of sharing the often very accurate insights he has had, even some of which I do not see as the complete picture.

    I hope he gets to the core of the crisis he's lived in by assessing and sharing his steps in thought, habit, actions and inactions, as well as diet and environment....but most of all just to get well and to be well. His openness to the experience could help many. Look at what it has done in our discussions here.

    I am not surprised that such a man does not know about some other alternatives. I have had those conversations with such brilliant people and am well aware of how open they are to healing themselves, as well as aware of their lack of being able to step outside and see themselves as they are. We do need each other.

    I've always seen addiction from the view of my soul and I have never disconnected the physical, the chemical, the personal environmental, the social, the life's purpose and the deeper intent from addiction. The common, disjointed approach comes from ignorance, both chosen and injected from exterior sources, none of whom has your/our health in mind.

    Taking the removal of the fda approved study of Ibogaine in the early 90's to it's being made into the felony for use soon thereafter is the perfect example of the evil that has kept so many in the dark, the evil that has put greed above healing for many. Were there any happy execs for the companies that make methadone and the nasty-ass suboxone after that suppression (not a question). And there are many more plant substances which can heal a variety of diseases. When the media, the corporate-fed scientific grant whores, the regulatory agencies, along with the political servants who do their bidding, remove the use that creates the deep internal healing, it is plain to see how these proven treatments remain hidden. Not any more.

    The blessed irony is that if you're 1/4 or more Native American ancestry the treatment is legal. In some countries in Europe it's legal. In Mexico it's legal. Both done under the supervision of a health care professional. How long will it take to do so legally in the states when both the illegal and legal drug profiteers in the country have reaped such ill gotten gains by the exclusion of these many cures?
    Last edited by Hym; 14th February 2020 at 17:57.

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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    Stellar post Hym! Thank you. (The entire post, not just what's quoted following, which I've abbreviated because it's a long post. )
    Quote Posted by Hym (here)
    Yes, Delight, I was referring to the use of Ibogaine for the cure of that specific "ailment". I would never suggest it be done without the use of a health professional, but I see why some have chosen to be among the living and do it without such help when there is none around. Though there are many highly successful treatments, like the Iboga plant, there is no cure-all and never has been. The whole lifestyle changes out of necessity. This goes for all chemical addictions/physical dependencies.

    The very interesting result during the process of using this one plant is the effect upon the soul, so powerful it rarely is repeated in a lifetime. Every one I have listened to, have known, has related that the experience shows the experiencer many, if not all, of the times that they have injured, hurt, attacked, insulted, and used even the most seemingly innocent barb that had a negative impact upon another persons life.

    That 1st person experience of the result of one's own callous nature imprints itself so dramatically upon the experiencer that it's power remains within to prevent self harm. It transcends the abusive use of guilt, both from religious dogma and some insidious stepped up and stepped down treatment protocols that are shamelessly emptied of the bio-chemical and nutritional core protocols of their founders. These abuses still dominate most social discourse about addiction.
    Last edited by onawah; 15th February 2020 at 21:19.
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    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    Quote Posted by Hym (here)
    Yes, Delight, I was referring to the use of Ibogaine for the cure of that specific "ailment".
    Iboga is an amazing plant. My first introduction to it was in the mid 2000's and I was very excited about its potential for treatment of addiction. In cases of opiate addiction especially, Ibogaine is awesome. If one is not addicted to a "drug", it can take the user to a deep place of self understanding where one confronts self at a level beyond other therapy. I love Iboga as another example of entheogens that SHOULD be legal and available!!!

    BUT it is dangerous for those addicted to benzodiazepines. Yes, I agree, one should be under the care of a treatment center with "experts" who well are versed in traditional and modern "medicine" to administer the treatment. If people don't know better, they may be harmed, not helped by cavalier use.

    Quote 4. Benzodiazepines
    General Considerations

    Benzodiazepines are a class of drugs that enhance the effects of the neurotransmitter GABA, producing sedative, hypnotic, anxiolytic (anti-anxiety), anticonvulsant, and muscle relaxing effects. These drugs have been a factor in several fatalities temporally associated with ibogaine administration due to the onset of seizures related to withdrawals (Alper 2012).
    Ibogaine has been shown to have no effect on the GABAnergic system (Popik 1998), and does not reduce withdrawal symptoms from benzodiazepines. In fact, hERG channel blockage, or syncopic episodes caused by QT prolongation can increase the likelihood of the onset of seizures in general.
    To use Iboga for addiction is awesome if it is a substance that the medicine can clear at the receptor sites. However, it is just the first step in healing because people who return to the same environment, same life style, same triggers have been seen to return to the drug they were addicted to before Ibogaine administration. I have read that some of the recommendations are to actually move to a new environment and to seek extensive support to make major life changes.

    Quote DischargeClients will be encouraged to seek out additional therapy, peer support programs, residential services, or any other services that may assist in their recovery. It will be impressed that accessing these services has a significant correlation with increased long-term success.

    Generally healthy life-style choices are easier to ingrain after an ibogaine experience, and counseling and support around simple choices such as diet, meditation and exercise is crucial.
    I am generally infuriated by the willy nilly prescribing of benzos. Benzos often rapidly (can happen in just days) lead to physical dependence. I think it is also infuriating that modern pharma owned legal systems will demonize the use of natural plant substances and yet the major death dealing danger is from prescription drugs. They are often given without informed understanding of the consequences. It surprised me that Peterson did not know better?

    LONG long long tapering is vital with benzos. Support to deal with the extreme discomfort is vital. DON"T TAKE THEM in the first place is the best advice.

    Quote Hooked on benzodiazepines: GABAA receptor subtypes and addiction
    Kelly R. Tan, Uwe Rudolph, and Christian Lüscher
    Here, we review recent observations from animal models regarding the cellular and molecular basis that may underlie the addictive properties of benzodiazepines. These data reveal how benzodiazepines, acting through specific GABAA receptor subtypes, activate midbrain dopamine neurons and how this may hijack the mesolimbic reward system. Such findings have important implications for the future design of benzodiazepines with reduced or even absent addiction liability.
    Last edited by Delight; 16th February 2020 at 02:16.

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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    Quite right, Delight. And Thanks. These levels are important to discuss.

    That post of mine was very long. Even so, I shortened it because I know that at the heart of this forum and all over it's illumined pages we have very insightful, inspiring and inquisitive, informed souls. From my first post being so cryptic I expected some interesting responses and I consider, no...I know, those responses add fullness to mine.

    Although Ibogaine is primarily used for opiate addiction, it is the timing of the use of the soul of this plant, as well as others, that enables us to experience a truth inside that few other curatives have, quite possibly also preventing the relapses that so often accompany these temporary cures. Considering the use of that insight in conjunction with the effective use of other curatives is where I mean to incite some inquiry in the hearts of the healers out there. I might have saved some paper, gone ecological in the forestry of our precious time, if I had mentioned that.

    I agree about the extreme danger in using the plant as a primary treatment for the cessation of a "physical dependence" upon benzodiazepine. In the case of an addiction to a "downer" the plant would have to be used almost immediately after the first contact or a ways down the line after the withdrawal symptoms have greatly decreased.

    In fact, because the soul connection is so profound while seeing, sensing and experiencing a personally deep impression from the process of the Ibogaine journey, it is a common practice to continue the use of methadone, and less of suboxone, by taking the normal dose before the ingestion of the plant. However, practitioners do not describe it that way and it misses the whole power of the plant's gift to heal. For me it is the distance of addiction from the deeper personal experience, that bridge to the soul, that makes a lifetime of difference.

    The common view of treatment protocols when dealing with these variances in the abused drugs themselves often dismisses the use of curatives entirely for other addictions when they are more adapted to specific categories of chemical dependence. Yes, consider the chemical nature of each interaction, knowing full well the contraindications, yet consider deeply the soul's need for viewing itself honestly in order to permanently create a new life.

    Waiting for another incarnation is a drag and it is a controlled means to continue an unnecessary journey when other journeys can be made. Being in a body is not a trap in this instance.

    However, believing that the choices souls make to reincarnate are given with full disclosure is an ignorant way to see the sovereignty of being. Humans adapt and deal with where they are at, quite admirably so, and understandably are comfortable with the limits provided, yet that is not the nature of the soul.

    From my point(s) of view I see the lack of inquiry and adjustment to the use of such a powerful plant means that the practitioner is not looking at the entire life of the one seeking the cure. This is a common occurrence in many treatment methods and one that I am not entirely critical of, but I see this as the worst habit of those who "practice" medicine. For those in acupuncture, using the term "antiquing", the activation of the endorphin circuit as a common treatment, instead of looking and sensing deeper, the term explains itself.

    When we look at the life of anyone we must look ahead and far behind to be effective, to serve. Most importantly, and just as you have stated, the removal of this menace is only effective when the entire environment of a person is viewed.

    These steps in disclosing ourselves to ourselves are the most worthy of paths to travel while here.
    Last edited by Hym; 16th February 2020 at 06:25.

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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    I was waiting for the laughter of a friend, anticipating, and I listened to the sadness instead. For all of the Jordons we know, we do what we can to help you along your way, pushed by the doing we didn't know then and reminding ourselves of the joy that pushes us now to help the living.

    Remembering, as this subject has brought it back to me, growing up with the addictions around me, I noticed the differences between those who were too low, unnaturally so, and those who were too high. Different kinds of disconnect. In Jordon's face and speech I accurately saw and heard the low, another voice deeper than most.

    My experience of those experiencers who have walked away and over that world of addictions is unique in my years of being here.

    Because their experiences with Iboga so deeply awakens the truth of their introspections, the words are often few, while the quiet between those words is very telling.

    This all is accompanied by a whole face full of stories of past experiences, none of which I need know, even as I am open..... to listen to what may be healing, to share and be heard by an outside soul....connected.

    The experiences of those who have used this specific healing plant brings up the possibility of it's use and study for some very core issues of mental health. Who would, without any debilitating addiction, seek out such an experience?

    Back to the topic.

    Be well All, on that River Jordon.

    .
    Last edited by Hym; 16th February 2020 at 06:36.

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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    ‘Western doctors overprescribe drugs’ – Jordan Peterson's daughter Mikhaila tells RT why he went to Russia for treatment

    Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson chose Russia for his detox because the country's medical industry is less dependent on big pharma than North America’s, his daughter Mikhaila told RT's World Apart program.

    Full article at https://www.rt.com/news/480979-jorda...khaila-russia/

    Quote However, doctors keep prescribing the dangerous drug, and Peterson believes the reason for this is the overdependence of the medical industry in the US and Canada on pharmaceutical companies.

    Mikhaila said that "part of the reason we thought Russia was a good option is that the medical system here isn't as backed by pharmaceutical companies as it is in North America." When the host argued that big pharma has been trying to influence the government and medics in Russia too, she replied that "it's not nearly as bad" as in the US or Canada.

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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    Glad to hear he is on the mend, or at least toward the mend.

    Benzodiazepines are a frightening class of psychotropics that should always be used with extreme care and caution.

    They're highly effective, but just as dangerous if overused, or in some cases, just plain unlucky.

    I will say, however, I faced a terrifying fate of post traumatic stress disorder after nearly losing my life to an illness/pharmaceutical reaction, and a single .5 milligram dose of Ativan was the only thing that pulled me through the mental trauma. But let it be noted, it was one .5 milligram dose. No more. No less. Ever. That's the key with these things...

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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    Quote Posted by James (here)
    Glad to hear he is on the mend, or at least toward the mend.

    Benzodiazepines are a frightening class of psychotropics that should always be used with extreme care and caution.

    They're highly effective, but just as dangerous if overused, or in some cases, just plain unlucky.

    I will say, however, I faced a terrifying fate of post traumatic stress disorder after nearly losing my life to an illness/pharmaceutical reaction, and a single .5 milligram dose of Ativan was the only thing that pulled me through the mental trauma. But let it be noted, it was one .5 milligram dose. No more. No less. Ever. That's the key with these things...

    thank you sir. appreciate you sharing that. i think it's important to get some positive testimonies about the responsible uses of pharm drugs into the dialogue here.

    they can provide a miracle from time to time, and it's important to acknowledge that.

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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update


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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    Someone who I consider to be very wise, not a stuck-in-the-head intellectual disconnected from Nature and from humanity's roots, is Dr. Carmen Boulter.
    She is in discussion with Dark Journalist in his most recent episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-HX_riyPF4
    Spirituality for someone like her is something to be tangibly experienced with one's whole being, and her health, growth, and evolution over the years has been very obvious.
    (Apologies for going off topic.)
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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    Onawah,
    I don't think this is off-topic at all. Carmen is, like Jordan, an outstanding Canadian telling it like it is. Funny, I am also listening to this interview right now. Canada is in mayhem and conflict at the moment. These are some of our heroes.

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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    It's terrible to hear that Jordan has suffered "neurological damage", I truly hope it's something which isn't permanent. When he comes out of this eventually, he might have even some better insights about the human condition. Tough lesson for him too, the pharmaceutical industry has done irreparable damage to countless of people and all of that just for the sake of profit, it's truly sickening. Psychedelics and natural medicine can't be legalized soon enough.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Someone who I consider to be very wise, not a stuck-in-the-head intellectual disconnected from Nature and from humanity's roots, is Dr. Carmen Boulter.
    She is in discussion with Dark Journalist in his most recent episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-HX_riyPF4
    Spirituality for someone like her is something to be tangibly experienced with one's whole being, and her health, growth, and evolution over the years has been very obvious.
    (Apologies for going off topic.)

    Nat, Peterson lectures on the value of dreams and visions and heightened states of consciousness, and actually emphasizes their importance over things like rationality and reason, despite his intellectual leanings. If you're interested I'll see if I can dig up the lecture for you. Can't recall which video it is off the top of my head...

    And if he is stuck in the head at times I think it's a welcome antidote to the great number of people these days who aren't using theirs. His spirituality is a practical one.

    Delight thanks for that update video.

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    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    I have listened to a lot of Peterson's talks, and I find him to be limited compared to someone like Dr. Boulter, although I agree he is very good at pointing out where people aren't using their heads.
    But I'll listen to the lecture you mention if you can find it, if you'll listen to Dr. Boulter's.
    But it's really like comparing apples to oranges; their work has very different focuses.
    I actually think you would like her discussion with DJ.

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Someone who I consider to be very wise, not a stuck-in-the-head intellectual disconnected from Nature and from humanity's roots, is Dr. Carmen Boulter.
    She is in discussion with Dark Journalist in his most recent episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-HX_riyPF4
    Spirituality for someone like her is something to be tangibly experienced with one's whole being, and her health, growth, and evolution over the years has been very obvious.
    (Apologies for going off topic.)

    Nat, Peterson lectures on the value of dreams and visions and heightened states of consciousness, and actually emphasizes their importance over things like rationality and reason, despite his intellectual leanings. If you're interested I'll see if I can dig up the lecture for you. Can't recall which video it is off the top of my head...

    And if he is stuck in the head at times I think it's a welcome antidote to the great number of people these days who aren't using theirs. His spirituality is a practical one.

    Delight thanks for that update video.
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    Psychiatric medications are SO DANGEROUS and the medical establishment is VERY out of touch with the harm being caused. It is so good that someone with a high profile like Jordan Peterson is being open with his experience.

    This is a discussion by two people who offer peer to peer support after they went through terrible ordeals with benzodiazepines and other psych meds. Hopefully people who are not taking these medications WILL NOT start. The people who have become physiologically dependent can slowly wean off. It will be uncomfortable.


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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jordan Peterson Update

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    I have listened to a lot of Peterson's talks, and I find him to be limited compared to someone like Dr. Boulter, although I agree he is very good at pointing out where people aren't using their heads.
    But I'll listen to the lecture you mention if you can find it, if you'll listen to Dr. Boulter's.
    But it's really like comparing apples to oranges; their work has very different focuses.
    I actually think you would like her discussion with DJ.

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Someone who I consider to be very wise, not a stuck-in-the-head intellectual disconnected from Nature and from humanity's roots, is Dr. Carmen Boulter.
    She is in discussion with Dark Journalist in his most recent episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-HX_riyPF4
    Spirituality for someone like her is something to be tangibly experienced with one's whole being, and her health, growth, and evolution over the years has been very obvious.
    (Apologies for going off topic.)

    Nat, Peterson lectures on the value of dreams and visions and heightened states of consciousness, and actually emphasizes their importance over things like rationality and reason, despite his intellectual leanings. If you're interested I'll see if I can dig up the lecture for you. Can't recall which video it is off the top of my head...

    And if he is stuck in the head at times I think it's a welcome antidote to the great number of people these days who aren't using theirs. His spirituality is a practical one.

    Delight thanks for that update video.


    i'm sure she's great Nat, but i wasn't trying to turn it into a competition..just wanted to correct a misconception.

    maybe you should start a thread on her? i'd check it out.

    in this excellent video Peterson talks about dreams and visions and consciousness here n there. not exclusively though:

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