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    Default Turkey vs Europe?

    Since the Turkish president Erdogan opened the borders to the west reports have been coming in about rising tensions between locals and Greek police on the one side and migrants and refugees (mostly Afghan, Iranian, Iraqi, and Syrian) on the other.

    There are reports stating that help workers have their cars being thrown rocks at by angry locals. Greek police are firing warning shots and tear gas grenades to stop the people from entering from the Turkish side of the border.

    The people directly affected on the ground are of course the victims here – victims of a globalistic power play that seems to be escalating by Erdogans latest move – in the middle (or start) of the coronavirus outbreak.

    RT: Athens claims Turkish police are firing tear gas ‘to help migrants cross border’


    I’m starting this thread with Stefan Molyneux’ insight on the subject.

    He has called this video «Turkey vs Europe: WAR?!?»



    Quote Europe is hanging by a thread
    - Stefan Molyneux -

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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?

    I think you'd have to live in a small town in N America to understand what the Europeans are going through. It's not like living in NY or LA where you can just get a job. Jobs are hard to come by. So imagine being invaded by a bunch of starving foreigners who want those jobs. And imagine knowing that your govt cares more about international agreements than its own people -- well that part's not so hard to imagine :-)

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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?

    I think Turkey it's a subject to look with magnifying glass, because host nuclear weapons from NATO, negotiates defense weapons with Russia and has borders with Europe and the Middle East.

    Turkey has already tried to end the armenians and now intends to do the same with the kurds, not allowing them to settle (as a nation) in northern Syria and Iraq. It control everything that enters and leaves the Black Sea, by Bosforo Strait in Istanbul.

    if there is a powder barrel of political, economic and social in Europe, surely Turkey is a country where everything can happen, all of a sudden.
    Last edited by RogeRio; 5th March 2020 at 18:31.

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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?

    I read somewhere that Erdogan aspires to resurrect the Turkish/ottoman empire. Thus his incursions into Syria, Libya and now opening the flood gates to Europe. I also understand that his son was orchestrating the black market sale of oil by ISIS. This guy knows no ethical limitations, and likely only responds to the threat of, or use of, force.

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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?

    Quote Posted by RogeRio (here)
    I think Turkey it's a subject to look with magnifying glass, because host nuclear weapons from NATO, negotiates defense weapons with Russia and has borders with Europe and the Middle East.

    Turkey has already tried to end the armenians and now intends to do the same with the kurds, not allowing them to settle (as a nation) in northern Syria and Iraq. It control everything that enters and leaves the Black Sea, by Bosforo Strait in Istanbul.

    if there is a powder barrel of political, economic and social in Europe, surely Turkey is a country where everything can happen, all of a sudden.
    It is very far for you (since you live in Brasil), to understand what is on going there.

    First you need to know some facts.

    "Trump’s “Deal of the Century” is supportive of the “Greater Israel” project, which also consists in the derogation of Palestinians’ “right of return” by “naturalizing them as citizens of Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, and elsewhere regionally where they reside”.

    Bear in mind: The Greater Israel design is not strictly a Zionist Project for the Middle East, it is an integral part of US foreign policy, its strategic objective is extend US hegemony as well as fracture and balkanize the Middle East.

    Trump’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital is intended to trigger political instability throughout the region.

    According to the founding father of Zionism Theodore Herzl, “the area of the Jewish State stretches: “From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates.” According to Rabbi Fischmann, “The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon.”"
    Greater Israel” requires the breaking up of the existing Arab states into small states.

    “The plan operates on two essential premises. To survive, Israel must 1) become an imperial regional power, and 2) must effect the division of the whole area into small states by the dissolution of all existing Arab states. Small here will depend on the ethnic or sectarian composition of each state. Consequently, the Zionist hope is that sectarian-based states become Israel’s satellites and, ironically, its source of moral legitimation… This is not a new idea, nor does it surface for the first time in Zionist strategic thinking. Indeed, fragmenting all Arab states into smaller units has been a recurrent theme.” (Yinon Plan, see below)

    Viewed in this context, the war on Syria and Iraq is part of the process of Israeli territorial expansion.

    In this regard, the defeat of US sponsored terrorists (ISIS, Al Nusra) by Syrian Forces with the support of Russia, Iran and Hizbollah constitute a significant setback for Israel.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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    Love and Hope

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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?

    Turkey now has 4.5 million refugees on it's land. It is going on 9 years. Do basic math, to feed, provide health care, education for1 person a daily It cost $50.
    50x 4.500.000--$225 million
    $50 Billion for a year, this cost deducted from it's own citizents' daily life.

    Europe can not handle even 10.000 refugees. This is a humanity crisis. Western countries watching dramatic demographic map changing but doing nothing.
    USA couldn't handle 50.000 refugees from south of it's border and trying build a new Berlin wall.
    Last edited by Tangri; 6th March 2020 at 00:51.
    Love and Hope

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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?

    Below video is a good analogy for Turkey's current position.



    Love and Hope

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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?


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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?

    Mod note from Bill:

    Praxis had earlier asked if the section title Problems of Migration and Immigration might be amended to be something more neutral. His stance, citing Nikola Tesla's arrival in the US in 1884, is that migration and immigration can sometimes be very welcome and beneficial to all.

    That wasn't unreasonable, and the mods discussed it. One option was to rename it to the slightly more anodyne Issues of Migration and Immigration.

    But with this latest issue, the topic of this thread, it seems once again evident that most issues of migration and immigration are problematic.

    And that's putting it mildly. It's the problems that need to be discussed — not those situations or instances in which there are no problems at all.


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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?

    While Erdogan pushes for Greece to open borders:

    Video shows Turkish vehicle pulling down border fence

    08.03.2020 : 10:32
    ekathimerini.com



    A video released by the Greek government Saturday evening apparently shows a Turkish vehicle puling down, with the help of a rope, a section of the fence erected by Greece on its border with Turkey.

    The video, shot Friday night, was accompanied by the following statement:

    Quote “Video depicting a Turkish armored border surveillance vehicle which tries to pull down part of the border fence with a rope. This incident occurred last night. This is a HIZAR/ATES vehicle, which is equipped with instruments that allow it to monitor the border (day and night). Turkey obtained these vehicles from May to August 2019, with 75 percent of the program financed by European funds. It has a powerful engine and climbing capabilities.”


    Migrants amassed at the border constantly try to poke holes in the fence and Greek forces repel them and proceed to instantly repair the damaged section. This is the first time there is evidence of Turkey materially helping the migrants to pull down the fence.

    [AP/Kathimerini]


    Video can be watched at The Sun

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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?

    Greece left 34 immigrants to their destiny on the deserted island!

    As a result of the increasing number of migrant passes in the Aegean Sea, Greece brought 34 migrants, including children and women, to the island of Samos and left it to the uninhabited Bayrak Island.

    34 irregular migrants, 28 Syrian, 5 Central African and 1 Somali nationals, who were abandoned to their destiny on the small island, were rescued from the development that occurred when 2 Coast Guard boats went to the scene upon notice.

    In their statements, the immigrants stated that they left Kuşadası at around 00.30 on March 6, 2020, reached Samos around 04.00, and were collected by the Greek elements after leaving the island and left back to Bayrak Island via 3 boats.

    https://www.sozcu.com.tr/2020/gundem...-etti-5665541/


    EU considers taking in 1,500 child refugees in Greece: German government

    We want to support Greece in the difficult humanitarian situation of about 1,000 to 1,500 children on the Greek islands," added the government in a statement after more than seven hours of talks between leaders of Chancellor Angela Merkel's right-left coalition.

    Concern over the plight of the minors have grown as they either require urgent medical treatment or are unaccompanied by adults.

    Calls have grown in recent days for other European nations to take them in, as Greece came under intense pressure after Turkey stopped preventing migrants from leaving for EU territory.

    https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...overnment.html

    They are trying make younger, their aging population with child trafficing .
    Love and Hope

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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?

    Shocking footage shows Greek coast guard attacking and shooting at migrant boat










    This is not a pissing contest.

    We need to discuss, why world is watching a humanity crisis before become catastrophe.
    Last edited by Tangri; 9th March 2020 at 23:57.
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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?

    I dont get it

    All the people who are hyper critical of attemps to control the US southern border remain silent when the EU takes a far more draconian approach!

    It's almost a 'NIMBY' situation - 'not in my back yard'


    "EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, who visited Greece yesterday to show solidarity with the Athens government, praised Greece’s role as “Europe’s shield” and promised Greece 700 million euros ($780 million) more in support to bolster border security. “The events of 2015 must not be repeated,” said David McAllister, head of the European Parliament’s Committee on Foreign Affairs, referring to the influx of 1.3 million asylum applicants into the European Union that year."


    https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/05...-greek-border/
    we have subcontracted the business of healing people to Companies who profit from sickness.

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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?

    Humans are suffering rigth now. Please spent only 14 min. to feel what human suffers.



    Love and Hope

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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?

    Some more background info from Pepe Escobar.

    Putin saves Erdogan from himself

    Once again it was Russia that just prevented the threatened 'Muslim invasion' of Europe advertised by Erdogan

    by Pepe Escobar
    March 6, 2020
    asiatimes.com


    Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan makes a speech on November 9 last year on the 81st anniversary of the death of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, founder of the Republic of Turkey.
    Photo: AFP / PhotMurat Kula / Anadolu Agency


    At the start of their discussion marathon in Moscow on Thursday, Russian President Vladimir Putin addressed Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan with arguably the most extraordinary diplomatic gambit of the young 21st century.

    Putin said: “At the beginning of our meeting, I would like to once again express my sincere condolences over the death of your servicemen in Syria. Unfortunately, as I have already told you during our phone call, nobody, including Syrian troops, had known their whereabouts.”

    This is how a true world leader tells a regional leader, to his face, to please refrain from positioning his forces as jihadi supporters – incognito, in the middle of an explosive theater of war.

    The Putin-Erdogan face-to-face discussion, with only interpreters allowed in the room, lasted three hours, before another hour with the respective delegations. In the end, it all came down to Putin selling an elegant way for Erdogan to save face – in the form of, what else, yet another ceasefire in Idlib, which started at midnight on Thursday, signed in Turkish, Russian and English – “all texts having equal legal force.”

    Additionally, on March 15, joint Turkish-Russian patrolling will start along the M4 highway – implying endless mutating strands of al-Qaeda in Syria won’t be allowed to retake it.

    If this all looks like déjà vu, that’s because it is. Quite a few official photos of the Moscow meeting prominently feature Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu – the other two heavyweights in the room apart from both Presidents. In the wake of Putin, Lavrov and Shoigu must have read the riot act to Erdogan in no uncertain terms. That’s enough: now behave, please – or else face dire consequences.

    The second Ataturk

    A predictable feature of the new ceasefire is that both Moscow and Ankara – part of the Astana peace process, alongside Tehran – remain committed to maintaining the “territorial integrity and sovereignty” of Syria. Once again, there’s no guarantee that Erdogan will abide.

    It’s crucial to recap the basics. Turkey is deep in financial crisis. Ankara needs cash – badly. The lira is collapsing. The Justice and Development Party (AKP) is losing elections. Former prime minister and party leader Ahmet Davutoglu – who conceptualized neo-Ottomanism – has left the party and is carving his own political niche. The AKP is mired in an internal crisis.

    Erdogan’s response has been to go on the offensive. That’s how he re-establishes his aura. Combine Idlib with his maritime pretensions around Cyprus and blackmail pressure on the EU via the inundation of Lesbos in Greece with refugees, and we have Erdogan’s trademark modus operandi in full swing.

    In theory, the new ceasefire will force Erdogan to finally abandon all those myriad al Nusra/ISIS metastases – what the West calls “moderate rebels,” duly weaponized by Ankara. This is an absolute red line for Moscow – and also for Damascus. There will be no territory left behind for jihadis. Iraq is another story: ISIS is still lurking around Kirkuk and Mosul.

    No NATO fanatic will ever admit it, but once again it was Russia that just prevented the threatened “Muslim invasion” of Europe advertised by Erdogan. Yet there was never any invasion in the first place, only a few thousand economic migrants from Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Sahel, not Syrians. There are no “one million” Syrian refugees on the verge of entering the EU.

    The EU, proverbially, will keep blabbering. Brussels and most capitals still have not understood that Bashar al-Assad has been fighting al Nusra/ISIS all along. They simply don’t understand the correlation of forces on the ground. Their fallback position is always the scratched CD of “European values.” No wonder the EU is a secondary actor in the whole Syrian tragedy.

    I received excellent feedback from progressive Turkish analysts as I attempted to connect Erdogan Khan’s motivations with Turkey’s history and the empires of he steppes.

    Their argument, essentially, is that Erdogan is an internationalist, but in Islamic terms only. Since 2000 he has managed to create a climate of denying ancient Turkish nationalist motives. He does use Turkishness, but as one analyst stresses, “he has nothing to do with ancient Turks. He’s an Ikhwani. He doesn’t care about Kurds either, as long as they are his ‘good Islamists.’”

    Another analyst points out that, “in modern Turkey, being ‘Turkish’ is not related to race, because most Turkish people are Anatolian, a mixed population.”

    So, in a nutshell, what Erdogan cares about is Idlib, Aleppo, Damascus, Mecca and not Southwest Asia or Central Asia. He wants to be “the second Ataturk.” Yet nobody except Islamists sees him this way – and “sometimes he shows his anger because of this. His only aim is to beat Ataturk and create an Islamic opposite of Ataturk.” And creating that anti-Ataturk would be via neo-Ottomanism.

    Crack independent historian Dr Can Erimtan, whom I had the pleasure to meet when he still lived in Istanbul (he’s now in self-exile), offers a sweeping Eurasianist background to Erdogan’s dreams. Well, Vladimir Putin has just offered the second Ataturk some breathing room. All bets are off on whether the new ceasefire will metastasize into a funeral pyre.

    Source


    When it comes to helping refugees prime minister of Norway Erna Solberg said:

    "The most important thing we can do is to send help". She went on to say that Norway has to support Greece and Bulgaria in protecting EUs border.

    Link (in Norwegian)

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    Default Re: Turkey vs Europe?

    At the Greek Border: No Turning Back. Get Out!

    Adam Larson aka Caustic Logic
    March 8-9, 2020
    libyancivilwar.blogspot.com


    Using the Migration

    From the last days of February, thousands of migrants appeared at the Turkish-Greek border, with others crossing by sea, over the following week rising to the tens of thousands at least.

    These are largely young men, but also include women and children. It seems a relative few are Syrians' many or most hail fron Afghanistan, with others from Iraq, Morocco, unclear.

    In one video clip, several are asked where from, all say Afghanistan. One says "We are waiting until we are thousands, and then we will ty to cross the border all together. This way they will be forced to open their border."
    https://twitter.com/john_wayne_gr/st...90236806524928 (primary source perhaps in time)



    Turkish president Recap Tayyip Erdogan had just suffered a major defeat in Syria's Idlib province, with at least 33 of his troops (and reportedly more than twice that many) killed in an airstrike the night of February 27.

    Being at night, it's likely that was a Russian strike, not a Syrian one. Between that and a follow-on visit with Russia's president Putin, and the US decision it would not back Tukey in some NATO-invoked defense over this, Erdogan saw something written on the wall.

    It might have involved the "fall of Idlib" and a massive influx of fresh refugees into Turkey - Syrian and foreign fighters, their families, others who insist on evading Syrian government control would want in.

    Ankara would be hard-pressed to block them out, but Turkey already hosts some 3-4 million refugees, largely Syrians displaced by the years of fighting Ankara eagerly participated in necessitating (flashback to 1st "refugee crisis" in 2011).

    Full article


    See also fort-russ.com article:

    Turkish Brute Force: Migrants Forced to Cross Greek Border at Gunpoint

    ------------------------

    On Twitter:

    Video shows #Erdogan supporters who are mostly from "Grey Wolves" far-right & fascist organization attacking workplaces & homes of #Syrian refugees in south of #Turkey beating them & looting their shops. They attack Syrian refugees to force them to leave #Turkey & invade #Greece!

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