The Reality of Immortality amongst you

[TomKat]

Posted by Soullight (here)
It seems a wasted opportunity when all we had to do was ask him questions. Truthfully, I can’t I say I blame SATB if he ever comes back here, if he wasn’t banned.

He didn't answer my question.

[Soullight]

Posted by TomKat (here)

Posted by Soullight (here)
It seems a wasted opportunity when all we had to do was ask him questions. Truthfully, I can’t I say I blame SATB if he ever comes back here, if he wasn’t banned.

He didn't answer my question.

Do you mean this question? https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1351944

If so, then it may just be bad timing as it seems SATB has either left this forum or been banned. And based on how people treated him I can't say it’s unreasonable IF he did leave...unfortunately.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Soullight (here)

Posted by TomKat (here)

Posted by Soullight (here)
It seems a wasted opportunity when all we had to do was ask him questions. Truthfully, I can’t I say I blame SATB if he ever comes back here, if he wasn’t banned.

He didn't answer my question.

Do you mean this question? https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1351944

If so, then it may just be bad timing as it seems SATB has either left this forum or been banned. And based on how people treated him I can't say it’s unreasonable IF he did leave...unfortunately.

Mod note from Bill: he's not been banned. You can see from his profile (or via the Member List) that he last logged in on 20 April.

[Soullight]

For members who have been active on the forum for a long time, and who have seen similar threads come and go, the pattern matches and the end result is really very predictable.
So we have good reason to think this is just a waste of time and space when there is so much that genuinely needs our attention.
And that may have a lot to do with why this thread was started in the first place..
Distractions from real issues are a favorite methodology of trolls, shills, and phonies of all sorts.
In short: we've seen it all before.

Thank you

It’s very simple IMHO

1. SATB never required anyone to waste their time. People participate with HIS thread because they wish to hear about his views and ask him questions. It’s ok if you don’t believe him, but ask him questions OR leave. Why get angry, lash out or make accusations (all of which are ASSUMPTIONS, no matter what patterns you see or conclusions your mind and experiences see, OR how many people back you up)?

2. We can all see patterns. After a life time of living I see loads of patterns and redundancies. But when you ASSUME that what you’re seeing with SATB is the same as others whom you considered LARP’s, shills or whatever...then you’ve closed yourself to ANY chance that they are not, and hence, any value you might gain. As long as a poster doesn't VIOLATE the forum rules this place should be a safe haven for those wanting to express their views, experiences, etc. What does it matter how preposterous their claims are? This forum is ALL about such things.

Further, if a gang of people in power, or a dominate group of like minded people basically attack or set negative conditions onto someone then obviously the one being attacked will seek to flee. And on THIS forum I find such behavior disappointing, to say the least.

I WELCOME SATB to convey his experiences and offer to answer ANY questions as there are some here who find value in such. And IMHO, whether or not my voice means anything, I’m going to defend SATB’s right to speak.

But I fear it's too late now...and I find that SAD.

[Soullight]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Soullight (here)

Posted by TomKat (here)

Posted by Soullight (here)
It seems a wasted opportunity when all we had to do was ask him questions. Truthfully, I can’t I say I blame SATB if he ever comes back here, if he wasn’t banned.

He didn't answer my question.

Do you mean this question? https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1351944

If so, then it may just be bad timing as it seems SATB has either left this forum or been banned. And based on how people treated him I can't say it’s unreasonable IF he did leave...unfortunately.

Mod note from Bill: he's not been banned. You can see from his profile (or via the Member List) that he last logged in on 20 April.

Oh wonderful...THANK YOU BILL!

[greybeard]

Soullight Im surprised that you havent thanked anyone though quite a few have thanked you.
You havent even thanked the starter of this thread SATB
Why would that be?
Chris

[onawah]

You would know if a member has been unsubscribed or not simply by looking at his or her last post, right under the name...
If someone is truly immortal, then I would think they would have evolved enough not to be offended or discouraged if others are skeptical about their unproven and unlikely claims.
Some of us would rather not waste our time on unsubstantiated claims, and would rather this forum not devote its' time, energy and space to possible hoaxes.
Avalon has a reputation to protect, and serves a higher purpose than to entertain doubtful information.
There are plenty of other forums where such "entertainment" is welcomed.
If SATB can't appreciate that, then perhaps he needs to evolve more.
If he has something of substance to share, then he is still free to do, thanks to the patience and forbearance of the Mods!

[Soullight]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Soullight Im surprised that you havent thanked anyone though quite a few have thanked you.
You havent even thanked the starter of this thread SATB
Why would that be?
Chris

I responded to four people (before writing this reply to you) and thanked three of them. Not sure what you're trying to suggest about me. My intent is good, obvious and clear in what I say.

[greybeard]

Posted by Soullight (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
Soullight Im surprised that you havent thanked anyone though quite a few have thanked you.
You havent even thanked the starter of this thread SATB
Why would that be?
Chris

I responded to four people (before writing this reply to you) and thanked three of them. Not sure what you're trying to suggest about me. My intent is good, obvious and clear in what I say.

If you thank people but dont use the thank you button it will not show Soullight.
Im not questioning your intent to support what you see as an underdog, perhaps.
A lot of people have thanked your posts 586 times in 106 posts that shows because they hit the thank you button.

Chris

[Soullight]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by Soullight (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
Soullight Im surprised that you havent thanked anyone though quite a few have thanked you.
You havent even thanked the starter of this thread SATB
Why would that be?
Chris

I responded to four people (before writing this reply to you) and thanked three of them. Not sure what you're trying to suggest about me. My intent is good, obvious and clear in what I say.

If you thank people but dont use the thank you button it will not show Soullight.
Im not questioning your intent to support what you see as an underdog, perhaps.
A lot of people have thanked your posts 586 times in 106 posts that shows because they hit the thank you button.

Chris

Oh that’s cool. Nice that I have support. Wasn’t feeling very encouraged lol. Anyway, I didn’t know about that. Don’t post much or spend lots of time here.

However, IF one post it seems a bit redundant if not unnecessary. As I see it, the post speaks for itself. But IF I didn’t post I might do such a thing. Yet I usually don’t log in unless I post and then I log out.

[Mike]

It's ok to remain open-minded about all kinds of stuff, initially, so long as that spirit of open-mindedness doesn't cause you to remain close-minded to the obvious facts, or lack of facts, as the story unfolds.

Being "open-minded" can often be an excuse to remain ignorant.

SATB was not a prolific poster before this thread. He spent a day or 2 basically spamming the forum as a means of getting attention...and when he felt he got it, he started this thread.

And since he has, he has offered nothing verifiable, falsifiable, scientific, or even remotely rational.

There comes a point in these types of threads where being open to the premise requires one to be closed to reason, logic, science, and common sense. For me it happens pretty quickly.

If you make any kind of fantastical claim here, expect to see the sand rushing thru the hour glass; the time provided to offer sensible explanations and evidence is short, as it should be imo. It's the claimant's responsibility to meet that expectation asap. If he or she can't, they're just adding to the noise.

If we haven't learned that lesson by now, I'm afraid we never will

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Mike (here)
...It's the claimant's responsibility to meet that expectation asap. If he or she can't, they're just adding to the noise.
...

A simple shift in his presentation, as had been suggested to him, and to drop that arrogance, and he would have been easily on the right track and gained some respect back. It is clear that the formats he uses - which are known manipulation tactics - is the only format he was willing to use. Why?

If the message is so important as he claimed, he would read the audience and tread appropriately, just like any comedian, presenter, MC, lecturer or whatever does with a crowd when they need utmost attention from their audience. But the insistent clinging to only use known manipulation tactics, after concerns have been raised, while saying he has 'very important' information is a huge contradiction.

If he can't appreciate this and have the ability to adjust to a format that enables healthy discussion, then yes, he holds zero value for me, and I don't believe that exposing oneself to manipulation tactics is a required or healthy way to learn anything, and most likely indicates the content is being used only to support the tactic and no other reason.

So the ball is truly in his court, we'll see what he does with it, if anything. I suspect nothing, because it strongly appears his value in the tactics he was using is far greater than the value of his so called "important message" (demonstrated by the fact that he is unwilling to change format to give this message) that he only actually mentioned after people started asking him questions (interestingly enough). His opening post mentioned no such things and only spoke about his own immortality (indicating a big ego - which promoting this ego also seems to have more value to him than this "message" since it was the first thing that came out of his mouth) - he is using the questions to create the narrative. This is disingenuous at best. Corey Goode, Atticus, and other good-for-nothings all use these exact same tactics to woo their audience.


This is why I suggested to him to start over on a new thread with an appropriate format where he just shares this "important message", which he flatly rejected. You have to only ask "why"? Why the requirement for the questions to create the content for him? Maybe he doesn't have a great imagination on his own?

So yes these are all the things that he's expressed, and the onus is on him to determine and express if the value of his "important" message is more valuable than his insistence on using known manipulation tactics to deliver it. We'll see how he responds, which will tell us the answer to this.

Anyway, I'm just repeating myself more or less on this thread, but I do welcome and invite SATB that if he really has an "important message" to share, that he starts again with a bit of humbleness and respect for his audience, in a way that is actually sharing information in a way that is not a known tool of the manipulators. If he truly is not a manipulator and if he feels his message really is that important to share with the world, this should be easy for him to do.

[Soullight]

Posted by Mike (here)
It's ok to remain open-minded about all kinds of stuff, initially, so long as that spirit of open-mindedness doesn't cause you to remain close-minded to the obvious facts, or lack of facts, as the story unfolds.

Being "open-minded" can often be an excuse to remain ignorant.

SATB was not a prolific poster before this thread. He spent a day or 2 basically spamming the forum as a means of getting attention...and when he felt he got it, he started this thread.

And since he has, he has offered nothing verifiable, falsifiable, scientific, or even remotely rational.

There comes a point in these types of threads where being open to the premise requires one to be closed to reason, logic, science, and common sense. For me it happens pretty quickly.

If you make any kind of fantastical claim here, expect to see the sand rushing thru the hour glass; the time provided to offer sensible explanations and evidence is short, as it should be imo. It's the claimant's responsibility to meet that expectation asap. If he or she can't, they're just adding to the noise.

If we haven't learned that lesson by now, I'm afraid we never will

Thank you for that information.

A few comments.

How do we verify that SATB was

spamming the forum as a means of getting attention

I tried to look up his name and see if there were other post but didn't find anything, but I'm not super familiar with how to use everything on this site.

IF anyone is a spammer, LARP, shill, etc, then I have NO PROBLEM with them being removed. I just haven't seen the evidence that compels some here to assume SATB is such. And IF there is irrefutable proof (not just evidence) then he should have been banned and the proof should be posted.


It's likely IF he's legit that he could have just scoped out the forum, and like he basically said, chose this forum for reasons personal to him.

As far as

he has offered nothing verifiable, falsifiable, scientific, or even remotely rational.

these things are merely a preference of how some might wish him to communicate. I also like these things, when possible and not biased. And there's actually other values in life that don't require objective forms of these preferences, and yet can still be conveyed through public communication. Such as LOVE. You can convey love although it can't be proven per say, yet some people can feel it and value it while others can't. Same goes for heady people vs. heart people.

But let's assume he is legit. He's CLEARLY stated that he's part of a secret group and basically any information that would divulge that group OR explain how he is immortal was NOT something he was planning on disclosing, if at all possible. Yet SATB was more than willing to answer questions which MAY have followed your stated criteria.

And...

fantastical claim

...aside...as this site is loaded with many of them, which many are also not provable (although there might be more evidence here and there), it seems the best thing to do when someone can't disclose certain things is just ask questions and get as much information as you can. Not discourage them.

[Soullight]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
...It's the claimant's responsibility to meet that expectation asap. If he or she can't, they're just adding to the noise.
...

A simple shift in his presentation, as had been suggested to him, and to drop that arrogance, and he would have been easily on the right track and gained some respect back. It is clear that the formats he uses - which are known manipulation tactics - is the only format he was willing to use. Why?

If the message is so important as he claimed, he would read the audience and tread appropriately, just like any comedian, presenter, MC, lecturer or whatever does with a crowd when they need utmost attention from their audience. But the insistent clinging to only use known manipulation tactics, after concerns have been raised, while saying he has 'very important' information is a huge contradiction.

If he can't appreciate this and have the ability to adjust to a format that enables healthy discussion, then yes, he holds zero value for me, and I don't believe that exposing oneself to manipulation tactics is a required or healthy way to learn anything, and most likely indicates the content is being used only to support the tactic and no other reason.

So the ball is truly in his court, we'll see what he does with it, if anything. I suspect nothing, because it strongly appears his value in the tactics he was using is far greater than the value of his so called "important message" (demonstrated by the fact that he is unwilling to change format to give this message) that he only actually mentioned after people started asking him questions (interestingly enough). His opening post mentioned no such things and only spoke about his own immortality (indicating a big ego - which promoting this ego also seems to have more value to him than this "message" since it was the first thing that came out of his mouth) - he is using the questions to create the narrative. This is disingenuous at best. Corey Goode, Atticus, and other good-for-nothings all use these exact same tactics to woo their audience.


This is why I suggested to him to start over on a new thread with an appropriate format where he just shares this "important message", which he flatly rejected. You have to only ask "why"? Why the requirement for the questions to create the content for him? Maybe he doesn't have a great imagination on his own?

So yes these are all the things that he's expressed, and the onus is on him to determine and express if the value of his "important" message is more valuable than his insistence on using known manipulation tactics to deliver it. We'll see how he responds, which will tell us the answer to this.

Anyway, I'm just repeating myself more or less on this thread, but I do welcome and invite SATB that if he really has an "important message" to share, that he starts again with a bit of humbleness and respect for his audience, in a way that is actually sharing information in a way that is not a known tool of the manipulators. If he truly is not a manipulator and if he feels his message really is that important to share with the world, this should be easy for him to do.

SATB was VERY specific on what he couldn't say. So this legal "claimant" jargon is a bit silly. If he's legit what he's doing is a gift NOT a legal battle, lol...

I saw NO "arrogance" from him, or "known manipulation tactics". I find it utterly amazing how people interpret things according to their unique perspective or life experiences.

It sure does seem true that "Energy flows where attention goes..."



Speaking of energy...I'm about out of it with this thread. I think I've reached a point where I feel posting further on this thread is not desired. Let's agree to disagree. UNLESS there's proof he was a spammer of course. Yet even then, what I said holds true for MORE than just SATB obviously.

Thanks for everyone's feedback and opinions, especially all the thumbs up. Best of luck to you all.

If SATB returns to answer questions I may again participate.

Cheers

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Soullight (here)
...

I saw NO "arrogance" from him, or "known manipulation tactics".

Cheers

Hi Soullight,

I explained how the format he used is used by manipulators in various posts here. I'm not the only one who sees it. I'm not sure how much of an expert you are on these, so I won't judge what I perceive is your knowledge in this area.

Let me give this all the benefit of the doubt and let us say he didn't really mean to use those methods and that format, maybe wasn't aware that they are tactics, and that he really did have some other, honest reason for for the format he chose and it is my mistake for not seeing the innocence in all this ... should he still insist on using them and associating himself and his message with them? And if so, by what motivation?

My invitation stands.

[Mike]

Posted by Soullight (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
It's ok to remain open-minded about all kinds of stuff, initially, so long as that spirit of open-mindedness doesn't cause you to remain close-minded to the obvious facts, or lack of facts, as the story unfolds.

Being "open-minded" can often be an excuse to remain ignorant.

SATB was not a prolific poster before this thread. He spent a day or 2 basically spamming the forum as a means of getting attention...and when he felt he got it, he started this thread.

And since he has, he has offered nothing verifiable, falsifiable, scientific, or even remotely rational.

There comes a point in these types of threads where being open to the premise requires one to be closed to reason, logic, science, and common sense. For me it happens pretty quickly.

If you make any kind of fantastical claim here, expect to see the sand rushing thru the hour glass; the time provided to offer sensible explanations and evidence is short, as it should be imo. It's the claimant's responsibility to meet that expectation asap. If he or she can't, they're just adding to the noise.

If we haven't learned that lesson by now, I'm afraid we never will

Thank you for that information.

A few comments.

How do we verify that SATB was

spamming the forum as a means of getting attention

I tried to look up his name and see if there were other post but didn't find anything, but I'm not super familiar with how to use everything on this site.

IF anyone is a spammer, LARP, shill, etc, then I have NO PROBLEM with them being removed. I just haven't seen the evidence that compels some here to assume SATB is such. And IF there is irrefutable proof (not just evidence) then he should have been banned and the proof should be posted.


It's likely IF he's legit that he could have just scoped out the forum, and like he basically said, chose this forum for reasons personal to him.

As far as

he has offered nothing verifiable, falsifiable, scientific, or even remotely rational.

these things are merely a preference of how some might wish him to communicate. I also like these things, when possible and not biased. And there's actually other values in life that don't require objective forms of these preferences, and yet can still be conveyed through public communication. Such as LOVE. You can convey love although it can't be proven per say, yet some people can feel it and value it while others can't. Same goes for heady people vs. heart people.

But let's assume he is legit. He's CLEARLY stated that he's part of a secret group and basically any information that would divulge that group OR explain how he is immortal was NOT something he was planning on disclosing, if at all possible. Yet SATB was more than willing to answer questions which MAY have followed your stated criteria.

And...

fantastical claim

...aside...as this site is loaded with many of them, which many are also not provable (although there might be more evidence here and there), it seems the best thing to do when someone can't disclose certain things is just ask questions and get as much information as you can. Not discourage them.

hi Soullight i don't want to be the party pooper here. i like topics like these. really do! happy to discuss them, but within their proper context.. and not thru the vague and muddy lens of an egotist holding forth. talking about immortality and saying you're immortal are 2 entirely different things

he's offered very little, at best..and has, as mike said, largely used the questions to create the narrative

if you're interested in SATB posting activity before he started this thread you can click on his name and then click on the view posts option.

truth needs to be our highest value here, imo, above all else, including compassion and love. if we're debating whether or not this man is immortal, we need falsifiable information to prove that one way or another. otherwise it's just a story (whether you're left brained or right brained, heart or head centered..or whatever).

corey goode tells stories. david wilcock tells stories. personally, i'm not interested in stories anymore, particularly when the person telling them is holding themselves up in some kind of exalted position. we've seen where that has gotten us.

awe and wonder are wonderful things, and i suggest we hold to them firmly..but not allow fantasists to take advantage of them and lead us down winding roads to nowhere. objective reality is the anchor that allows us all to remain sane in this stew of uncertainty. we neglect it at our own peril. small steps away from it seem like they might be harmless; but then more steps are taken, and more, and more...and before long we're so far away from shore that we become intellectually lost..drowning in a quicksand of stories

[greybeard]

Hind sight shows that Avalon was very tolerant of previous event where posters used similar ways of expressing without actually saying anything.
A lot of tolerance has been shown here and some frustration, but older members are not naive because of past experience.
How often does one touch the stove before one is aware that it can burn ones hand?
Chris

[Gracy]

Posted by Mike (here)
truth needs to be our highest value here, imo, above all else, including compassion and love. if we're debating whether or not this man is immortal, we need falsifiable information to prove that one way or another. otherwise it's just a story (whether you're left brained or right brained, heart or head centered..or whatever).

corey goode tells stories. david wilcock tells stories. personally, i'm not interested in stories anymore, particularly when the person telling them is holding themselves up in some kind of exalted position. we've seen where that has gotten us.

Mike, that reminds me of the highly amusing mock thread I started around 4 months ago, where our very own Star Mariner volunteered himself to play the part of our typical story teller making grandiose claims, and taking questions.

He did a darn good job of it too! His time traveling character "Jake" visiting us from the year 2100, takes over the hot seat on Post #6:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-time-traveler

[onawah]

That thread would probably be taking off in a different direction if it were active now!

Posted by Gracy May (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
truth needs to be our highest value here, imo, above all else, including compassion and love. if we're debating whether or not this man is immortal, we need falsifiable information to prove that one way or another. otherwise it's just a story (whether you're left brained or right brained, heart or head centered..or whatever).

corey goode tells stories. david wilcock tells stories. personally, i'm not interested in stories anymore, particularly when the person telling them is holding themselves up in some kind of exalted position. we've seen where that has gotten us.

Mike, that reminds me of the highly amusing mock thread I started around 4 months ago, where our very own Star Mariner volunteered himself to play the part of our typical story teller making grandiose claims, and taking questions.

He did a darn good job of it too! His time traveling character "Jake" visiting us from the year 2100, takes over the hot seat on Post #6:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-time-traveler

[Gracy]

Posted by onawah (here)
That thread would probably be taking off in a different direction if it were active now!

Ha! Ya think?

I hadn't thought of that angle very good point Natalie!