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Thread: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

  1. Link to Post #101
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    Babaji the deathless Saint worth looking up.
    Think he could change body though-- no body is deathless,
    Can see why anyone would want to live indefinately on mother earth, with the same persona.
    Spirit is without gender -- so you can incarnate as male or female and anything in between.
    Other realms to investigate when you graduate from human form.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    Note from Bill: I copied this post, originally dated 2 April, from the Would God really send people to hell thread. ShotAcrosstheBow may not have seen it.

    Considering his many continuing assertions, whether true or false, and his increased participation on many other threads, I do think it's important.

    We may close his account soon, though we wish him no ill, as we do have to safeguard the quality and integrity of the forum.


    ~~~

    Quote Posted by ShotAcrosstheBow (here)
    Quote Posted by rainsong (here)
    No. God does not send people to hell.

    If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.
    I use to believe there was no hell, because God forgave everyone,

    And that is true, God does forgive everyone,

    But there is a hell, God doesnít send anyone there, but itís real,

    You know that pedophilias and cannibals exist, did God create that?, no, itís an evil use of free will,
    In the same way you destroy yourselves,

    Ironically psychopaths donít have the capacity for spiritual beliefs, (sure they can mimic it, but itís fake, push them on the subject and they will say there is no God, no heaven or hell, they go through life thinking there is no consequences to their action (they think when they die, they are just going to fall asleep and thatís it, nothing))

    Iím not trying to manipulate, or scare you,
    But you donít want to find out the hard way either,
    Sure, I'm a mod, and I'll intervene. That (above) is all bullsh*t. I know about these things, too.

    I do seriously consider that you may be mentally unwell. I don't mean that unkindly, or as any kind of putdown or insult. But some people are. It's not their fault.

    The greatest act of courage possible is to look in the mirror and realize that one might have a serious mental problem.

    If you've had a history of this, and at some level you want to let go of your charade (which is what this is), then I can promise you: you'll find caring support here. You really will. This is a good place, with good people.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 17th April 2020 at 12:32.

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  5. Link to Post #103
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Note from Bill: I copied this post, originally dated 2 April, from the Would God really send people to hell thread. ShotAcrosstheBow may not have seen it.

    Considering his many continuing assertions, whether true or false, and his increased participation on many other threads, I do think it's important.

    We may close his account soon, though we wish him no ill, as we do have to safeguard the quality and integrity of the forum.


    ~~~

    Quote Posted by ShotAcrosstheBow (here)
    Quote Posted by rainsong (here)
    No. God does not send people to hell.

    If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.
    I use to believe there was no hell, because God forgave everyone,

    And that is true, God does forgive everyone,

    But there is a hell, God doesnít send anyone there, but itís real,

    You know that pedophilias and cannibals exist, did God create that?, no, itís an evil use of free will,
    In the same way you destroy yourselves,

    Ironically psychopaths donít have the capacity for spiritual beliefs, (sure they can mimic it, but itís fake, push them on the subject and they will say there is no God, no heaven or hell, they go through life thinking there is no consequences to their action (they think when they die, they are just going to fall asleep and thatís it, nothing))

    Iím not trying to manipulate, or scare you,
    But you donít want to find out the hard way either,
    Sure, I'm a mod, and I'll intervene. That (above) is all bullsh*t. I know about these things, too.

    I do seriously consider that you may be mentally unwell. I don't mean that unkindly, or as any kind of putdown or insult. But some people are. It's not their fault.

    The greatest act of courage possible is to look in the mirror and realize that one might have a serious mental problem.

    If you've had a history of this, and at some level you want to let go of your charade (which is what this is), then I can promise you: you'll find caring support here. You really will. This is a good place, with good people.
    Why would you say this?
    You are wrong again, is it because I disagreed with some o your previous posts?
    I can only speak of what I know is true, no matter what others think, it is not an armed attack on you (up to this point I had nothing but respect for you, even if we disagreed, but this post has shaken that)

    If you want to disagree with me fine,
    But donít try to discredit me /character assassinate with unfounded assumptions,
    how is that fair?

    Iím not mentally ill, and I am telling the truth,

    Please show me evidence of your claims to my character/mental heath, Iím curious to see the basis of that claim,

    Sound fair?

    §=[Post Update]=§

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Babaji the deathless Saint worth looking up.
    Think he could change body though-- no body is deathless,
    Can see why anyone would want to live indefinately on mother earth, with the same persona.
    Spirit is without gender -- so you can incarnate as male or female and anything in between.
    Other realms to investigate when you graduate from human form.
    Chris
    Yes you can come back either male or female, I have done both,
    You never stop learning, but you do graduate,

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  7. Link to Post #104
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    Quote Posted by ShotAcrosstheBow (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Note from Bill: I copied this post, originally dated 2 April, from the Would God really send people to hell thread. ShotAcrosstheBow may not have seen it.

    Considering his many continuing assertions, whether true or false, and his increased participation on many other threads, I do think it's important.

    We may close his account soon, though we wish him no ill, as we do have to safeguard the quality and integrity of the forum.


    ~~~

    Quote Posted by ShotAcrosstheBow (here)
    Quote Posted by rainsong (here)
    No. God does not send people to hell.

    If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.
    I use to believe there was no hell, because God forgave everyone,

    And that is true, God does forgive everyone,

    But there is a hell, God doesnít send anyone there, but itís real,

    You know that pedophilias and cannibals exist, did God create that?, no, itís an evil use of free will,
    In the same way you destroy yourselves,

    Ironically psychopaths donít have the capacity for spiritual beliefs, (sure they can mimic it, but itís fake, push them on the subject and they will say there is no God, no heaven or hell, they go through life thinking there is no consequences to their action (they think when they die, they are just going to fall asleep and thatís it, nothing))

    Iím not trying to manipulate, or scare you,
    But you donít want to find out the hard way either,
    Sure, I'm a mod, and I'll intervene. That (above) is all bullsh*t. I know about these things, too.

    I do seriously consider that you may be mentally unwell. I don't mean that unkindly, or as any kind of putdown or insult. But some people are. It's not their fault.

    The greatest act of courage possible is to look in the mirror and realize that one might have a serious mental problem.

    If you've had a history of this, and at some level you want to let go of your charade (which is what this is), then I can promise you: you'll find caring support here. You really will. This is a good place, with good people.
    Why would you say this?
    You are wrong again, is it because I disagreed with some o your previous posts?
    I can only speak of what I know is true, no matter what others think, it is not an armed attack on you (up to this point I had nothing but respect for you, even if we disagreed, but this post has shaken that)

    If you want to disagree with me fine,
    But donít try to discredit me /character assassinate with unfounded assumptions,
    how is that fair?

    Iím not mentally ill, and I am telling the truth,

    Please show me evidence of your claims to my character/mental heath, Iím curious to see the basis of that claim,

    Sound fair?
    You're not telling the truth about the reality of an Old Testament biblical hell. Period.

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  9. Link to Post #105
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by ShotAcrosstheBow (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Note from Bill: I copied this post, originally dated 2 April, from the Would God really send people to hell thread. ShotAcrosstheBow may not have seen it.

    Considering his many continuing assertions, whether true or false, and his increased participation on many other threads, I do think it's important.

    We may close his account soon, though we wish him no ill, as we do have to safeguard the quality and integrity of the forum.


    ~~~

    Quote Posted by ShotAcrosstheBow (here)
    Quote Posted by rainsong (here)
    No. God does not send people to hell.

    If you believe that God is perfect love, and perfect love casts out fear. Then fear based manipulations, like sending people to hell, have no root in God. Reject them.
    I use to believe there was no hell, because God forgave everyone,

    And that is true, God does forgive everyone,

    But there is a hell, God doesnít send anyone there, but itís real,

    You know that pedophilias and cannibals exist, did God create that?, no, itís an evil use of free will,
    In the same way you destroy yourselves,

    Ironically psychopaths donít have the capacity for spiritual beliefs, (sure they can mimic it, but itís fake, push them on the subject and they will say there is no God, no heaven or hell, they go through life thinking there is no consequences to their action (they think when they die, they are just going to fall asleep and thatís it, nothing))

    Iím not trying to manipulate, or scare you,
    But you donít want to find out the hard way either,
    Sure, I'm a mod, and I'll intervene. That (above) is all bullsh*t. I know about these things, too.

    I do seriously consider that you may be mentally unwell. I don't mean that unkindly, or as any kind of putdown or insult. But some people are. It's not their fault.

    The greatest act of courage possible is to look in the mirror and realize that one might have a serious mental problem.

    If you've had a history of this, and at some level you want to let go of your charade (which is what this is), then I can promise you: you'll find caring support here. You really will. This is a good place, with good people.
    Why would you say this?
    You are wrong again, is it because I disagreed with some o your previous posts?
    I can only speak of what I know is true, no matter what others think, it is not an armed attack on you (up to this point I had nothing but respect for you, even if we disagreed, but this post has shaken that)

    If you want to disagree with me fine,
    But donít try to discredit me /character assassinate with unfounded assumptions,
    how is that fair?

    Iím not mentally ill, and I am telling the truth,

    Please show me evidence of your claims to my character/mental heath, Iím curious to see the basis of that claim,

    Sound fair?
    You're not telling the truth about the reality of an Old Testament biblical hell. Period.
    Canít ever remember reading the Old Testament,
    But I am telling you the truth when I say there is a hell,

    At one time, I use to believe that no on went to hell, that hell wasnt real because God forgave everyone,
    I thought that was true,

    I found out later I was wrong,
    God doesnít send people to hell, people degenerate and send themselves to hell,

    I asked people far more knowledgeable than me,

    This is what I know to be true,

    Your mileage my vary,
    But one way or other people can find out the truth when they leave this world,

    Either way, Iíd hardly call that ďopinionĒ the basis of a ďmentally illĒ claim,
    Traditional or conservative maybe,

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  11. Link to Post #106
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    Quote Posted by ShotAcrosstheBow (here)
    God doesnít send people to hell, people degenerate and send themselves to hell,

    I asked people far more knowledgeable than me,

    This is what I know to be true,

    Your mileage my vary,
    But one way or other people can find out the truth when they leave this world,
    You're dangerously and irresponsibly incorrect.

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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by ShotAcrosstheBow (here)
    God doesnít send people to hell, people degenerate and send themselves to hell,

    I asked people far more knowledgeable than me,

    This is what I know to be true,

    Your mileage my vary,
    But one way or other people can find out the truth when they leave this world,
    You're dangerously and irresponsibly incorrect.
    How so? Iím not forcing anyone in to my opinion (thatís not even doable)
    And Iím sharing the same opinion with the vast majority of Christians,
    Are we all dangerously irresponsible?

    That doesnít seem fair,
    Even if you disagree with me, I should have the right to my opinion, just like everyone else, correct?

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  15. Link to Post #108
    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    Ever seen the Life of Pi

    Last edited by Agape; 18th April 2020 at 17:13.

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  17. Link to Post #109
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you




    The Pi Patel story ..
    Last edited by Agape; 18th April 2020 at 17:18.

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  19. Link to Post #110
    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    I agree with you up to a point Agape.
    A lot of people will only find the truth on crossing over.
    Im thinking of Dr Eben Alexander the brain surgeon who had a very believable NDE.

    Christ told the truth -- The Kingdom of Heaven is within so truth is discoverable in this life through spiritual practise such as meditation.
    Faith is very important--many enlightened souls point to this truth I have faith that they genuinely tell the Truth.
    I do not however claim I am right.
    Its a maybe so.
    I suspect that ultimate Truth is experiential which is why the sages say it can not be spoken of.

    As long as people are respectful in conveying what they believe to be true I see no harm in it.
    Its ok to be wrong.
    Ive seen worse here on Avalon -- beware of going into the light for example -- but I respect that opinion though I rebut it.
    No one can really speak for or against Christianity as there are many thousand different churches all claiming they got it right.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  21. Link to Post #111
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    Quote Posted by ShotAcrosstheBow (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by ShotAcrosstheBow (here)
    God doesnít send people to hell, people degenerate and send themselves to hell,

    I asked people far more knowledgeable than me,

    This is what I know to be true,

    Your mileage my vary,
    But one way or other people can find out the truth when they leave this world,
    You're dangerously and irresponsibly incorrect.
    How so? Iím not forcing anyone in to my opinion (thatís not even doable)
    And Iím sharing the same opinion with the vast majority of Christians,
    Are we all dangerously irresponsible?

    That doesnít seem fair,
    Even if you disagree with me, I should have the right to my opinion, just like this everyone else, correct?

    Yes any faith trying to convince people that ďtruth can be found only after leaving this lifeĒ is dangerousĒ. Human beings are capable of realizing truth while being alive too.

    If you deny it, yourself as a preacher prove yourself foolish.


    God is of Life and living things ..

    Itís where any so ďorthodox religionĒ falls on its own sword by denying pure logic.


    Faith and hope are positively important and undeniable factors in Life, allowing us to take risk and transcend given boundaries.
    However, our sense of wisdom fully depends on pure mind that is pure logic and experience -training in the logic of causality. Thatís often discovered only the day ďafter tomorrowĒ.
    That only applies if you are looking for truth in this life,
    Many donít, they only place they find it is on the other side,

    Too many people are quick to judge, and then become entrenched in their belief,
    That is like running with scissors with your eyes closed, itís only a matter of time before something bad happens,

    Logic is a great tool, but has its limits,
    It can only work properly when it has all the facts
    Like resolving a maths problem, you need the correct components to get the correct answer,

    How many have all the facts?

    Learn to suspend your judgement until you do, or you are just judging on assumption,
    Assumptions are not facts,

    Learn to keep them separate,
    And you will find the truth faster (because you donít self contaminate)

    To do anything other is insane

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  23. Link to Post #112
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    After reading thru this thread for the first time I was growingly feeling like Bill before I got to his post. Maybe not for his same reasons/observations but I hadn't yet read anything new or revealing with any good explanation yet and was getting really tired of Shot's 4 word statements that I've heard 100's of times before and never really answered questions. Also noticed a lot of very good questions never answered - like what exactly is the difference and relationship between a human and immortal/how does one become the other, and what exactly is the reality of some inescapable hell? I see someone deeply entrained and damaged by early Catholic programming still feeling lost and betrayed and twisting it's unsettllng concepts into a story that feels better.

    Especially this game of ask me something good first or I'm not going to offer feels very cagey. Explain something in great detail in a way we haven't heard before, Shot.

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  25. Link to Post #113
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    Bill 🙏🌟🙏, with all respect to you and your IQ,
    I canít believe what Iím seeing here.
    The topic is just fine and the person posting seem to just express themselves little differently.
    It does not trigger me even a little bit as long as it makes sense.
    But it doesn't make sense. Not in the tiniest little bit.

    We have a new member here, whom we know very little about, who's now made quite a few take-it-from-me-this-is-the-truth proclamations, based on nothing but what he's been told by unnamed others.

    Many members who've been here a year or two may remember we've been here before, and it always ends in tears.

    Those things ShotAcrosstheBow was told include:
    • He is immortal.
    • Hell is real.
    So I'd immediately suggest that this is of almost zero subjective value to anyone reading, except either the most gullible, or the most vulnerable. (And we do have vulnerable members here.)

    We have to differentiate this from some of the extraordinary material shared by members as detailed, remarkable personal experiences they've either witnessed in real time this lifetime, or to their best of honest belief, have recalled.

    All experiences can be shared here, and many have. This thread is a wonderful, inspiring repository of many of them:
    At the other end of this value spectrum, it's fine for someone to insist that the Earth is flat. (As long as it's not here!) That's unintelligent, immediately disprovable, but harmless ó except that it gives the alternative community a bad name, and probably deliberately so.

    We never approve Flat Earthers' applications. (Members might thank us for that! )

    But far from being harmless nonsense, someones stating as an authoritative proclamation that Hell is real is dangerous for some. We have teenagers as members here, as young as 14 and 15. That notion been used for centuries as a control mechanism to drive people into fear and obedience.

    That's not going to happen here, if such a notion is based on a primitive medieval falsehood.

    We can all have an intelligent, informed, historical, academic, sociological and spiritual discussion on whether "hell is real", and what thay concept might mean. That's interesting, and opens up many aspects of the human condition.

    But to say (and this is a caricature, of course, to make the point): "Hell is definitely real, because I've been told (and take it from me, I'm an immortal, and I was told that, too)" quickly starts to disqualify someone from being a member of this community.

    If he'd told us all this when he applied, we would certainly have declined his application. This is why we have applications. You should see some of what's written by some of the prospective members we decline. This is what separates Avalon from Facebook, Twitter, or a bunch of YouTube comments.

    The very way ShotAcrosstheBow has been conducting himself suggests strongly that:
    • He's at the effect of a belief system of his own. And this having been impressed on him by others (with his consent and agreement), he's determined to then impress this on members and guests here. That kind of dogmatism isn't healthy, welcome, or okay.
    • He may very well be unstable or unwell, inasmuch as he does NOT seem to be able to see any of this for himself in any kind of intelligent, balanced way.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 17th April 2020 at 15:56.

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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you




    Itís not the messenger itís the message
    Last edited by Agape; 18th April 2020 at 17:36.

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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    There's a lot of contradiction in Shot's posts here alone. And so far he's brought nothing of any real value, or any information of value that we already don't well know. The rest sounds an awful lot like it was influenced by Stephen Hodges 'story'. If I was feeling a little more abrasive, I would gather up all these contradictions and take him to task on trying to explain them.

    I'm with Bill ... this is silly.

    And I'll say it yet again ... anyone starting a thread with "I'm <insert cool unbelievable thing here>, Ask me any questions!" has not had a good ride here ... we have seen this over and over and over, and the outcome is always the same.

    Shot wouldn't know we have this history, and he may not know that his story sounds very peculiarly like picked up parts from the Stephen Hodges story ... again, from Avalon history, so he may not understand why all the skepticism.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 17th April 2020 at 16:34.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    I am that I am --Agape and you are correct in that you say.
    Advaita Vedanta which is my current interest -- maintains that you are allready That --immortal --One without a second -- you are just ignorant of this.
    However it is strongly suggested that even though That which you are is ultimate truth you still need spiritual practice Neity Neity to remove the ignorance-- all complex yet simple
    Chris

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...phy-on-Earth--

    Ps NDE is short of enlightenment but Dr Eben Alexander and others of NDE experience have said All are One They have glimpsed the Truth which they were unaware of before.
    Last edited by greybeard; 17th April 2020 at 16:41.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  33. Link to Post #117
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    After reading thru this thread for the first time I was growingly feeling like Bill before I got to his post. Maybe not for his same reasons/observations but I hadn't yet read anything new or revealing with any good explanation yet and was getting really tired of Shot's 4 word statements that I've heard 100's of times before and never really answered questions. Also noticed a lot of very good questions never answered - like what exactly is the difference and relationship between a human and immortal/how does one become the other, and what exactly is the reality of some inescapable hell? I see someone deeply entrained and damaged by early Catholic programming still feeling lost and betrayed and twisting it's unsettllng concepts into a story that feels better.

    Especially this game of ask me something good first or I'm not going to offer feels very cagey. Explain something in great detail in a way we haven't heard before, Shot.
    Could that be loaded with more of your own bias if you tried?
    Like many times now, I have already answered the same question before in previous posts,
    But if you want to see only what you want to see, Iím sure that blinds you to many things,

    Itís easy to disprove your assumptions,
    Simply show me where you got them...

    Deeply entrained and damaged?
    Again, where did you get this from?

    Sorry, if you have a question ask me,
    If you are just trying to throw around baseless aspersions, Iím not going to jump through your crazy hoops,
    Nor waste my time being pulled in to an argument, (which seems to be your goal, or why make such baseless assumptions as ďentrained and damagedď donít the mods get to jump on that?)

  34. Link to Post #118
    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    Sorry Bill


    Thanks again

    🦢
    Last edited by Agape; 18th April 2020 at 16:28.

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  36. Link to Post #119
    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    Last edited by Agape; 18th April 2020 at 17:25.

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  38. Link to Post #120
    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reality of Immortality amongst you

    Empty space:
    Last edited by Agape; 18th April 2020 at 16:33.

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