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Thread: COVID-19 Contrarians

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    France Avalon Member araucaria's Avatar
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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    I have a lifestyle that makes me more suited than most to cope with lockdown. So when like today I have a bad day, I think how tolerant we need to be of people who bend the rules to get by. And how we need to take a positive view of what is happening. In France, we don’t talk of lockdown, but of “confinement”. Normally speaking there are no obstetric connotations involved, but let’s just suppose there were: what are we bringing into the world? Right now George Monbiot is the man to read:
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...bours-covid-19


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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    David Icke hits a homerun with exposure of the covid 19 scam! must read to understand the nonsense regarding the covid 19 testing!

    https://www.davidicke.com/article/56...ctor-videocast

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by Luke Holiday (here)
    David Icke hits a homerun with exposure of the covid 19 scam! must read to understand the nonsense regarding the covid 19 testing!

    https://www.davidicke.com/article/56...ctor-videocast
    Icke's been great, read any of Rappaport's recent series of 40 or so articles. He's been talking about this bogus testing for many days.
    https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    looks like i can only post here now. Bill banned me from the other thread because I disagree with him. sad. not much different than facebook or google deciding what the truth is..

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by Phoenix (here)
    looks like i can only post here now. Bill banned me from the other thread because I disagree with him. sad. not much different than facebook or google deciding what the truth is..
    No, not because you disagree with me. Many people do, and many people disagree with each other here. That's all fine, and it's important.

    That's how we all reach the truth together. It's a team effort. Behind the spirited discussions, there's almost always a great deal of mutual respect and friendship. Avalon is a special place.

    I blocked you from the thread for reasons that others may help you understand, if they want to make the effort. I'm not going to invest my limited time doing that.


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    United States Avalon Member graciousb's Avatar
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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    I do believe this CV is real, more serious than the usual seasonal ailments..but how can anyone not be somewhat skeptical in light of the known lies and manipulations we have all been and are subjected to ? From organizations and groups that have no history of benevolence? From a media that's been caught out time and again staging deep fakes and carrying water for the intelligence and defense agencies?

    I know I'll get heat for expressing this but I feel very passionately about it, that we must take everything with a huge grain of salt.

    How can any semi awake person not see what is at stake here? The last fragile shreds of our liberty and sovereignty as human beings beings are being shredded as a remedy to a questionable crisis. Not to mention the wholesale destruction of businesses, lives that were already teetering on the edge here in the States, with our huge numbers of people at subsistence levels, a paycheck away from being homeless, and a very tattered safety net?


    I don't wish for unnecessary deaths and yes ill wash my f..ing hands and not cough on anyone.. but extra deaths including my own would be preferable to even the slightest chance of normalizing these draconian conditions in the name of ''safety.'' We are being pressured to fall in line, to sing and cheer at our own imprisonment, to romanticize it as a 'reset'' , etc, or to risk being shamed and demonized in the town square.

    Did you hear drones are tracking people in England then publicizing the names to ''lockdown shame'' them ? ! Welcome to your new world.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FYU4j02fGk

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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  14. Link to Post #228
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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    The horror films got it wrong. This virus has turned us into caring neighbours
    George Monbiot
    3/31/20
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...bours-covid-19

    (Monbiot's article deserves copying here imho, so it won't be missed.)

    "The horror films got it wrong. This virus has turned us into caring neighbours
    Across the world, Covid-19 has triggered community action on a vast scale. It’s a powerful riposte to both government and private money

    You can watch neoliberalism collapsing in real time. Governments whose mission was to shrink the state, to cut taxes and borrowing and dismantle public services, are discovering that the market forces they fetishised cannot defend us from this crisis. The theory has been tested, and almost everywhere abandoned. It may not be true that there were no atheists in the trenches, but there are no neoliberals in a pandemic.

    The shift is even more interesting than it first appears. Power has migrated not just from private money to the state, but from both market and state to another place altogether: the commons. All over the world, communities have mobilised where governments have failed.

    In India, young people have self-organised on a massive scale to provide aid packages for “daily wagers”: people without savings or stores, who rely entirely on cash flow that has now been cut off. In Wuhan, in China, as soon as public transport was suspended, volunteer drivers created a community fleet, transporting medical workers between their homes and hospitals.

    In South Africa, communities in Johannesburg have made survival packs for people in informal settlements: hand sanitiser, toilet paper, bottled water and food. In Cape Town, a local group has GIS mapped all the district’s households, surveyed the occupants, and assembled local people with medical expertise, ready to step in if the hospitals are overwhelmed. Another community in the city has built washstands in the train station and is working to turn a pottery studio into a factory making sanitiser.
    In the US, HospitalHero connects healthcare workers who don’t have time to meet their own needs with people who can offer meals and accommodation. A group called WePals, created by an eight-year-old, sets up virtual play dates for children. A new website, schoolclosures.org, finds teaching, meals and emergency childcare for overstretched parents. A network called Money During Corona texts news of job opportunities to people looking for work.

    In Norway, a group of people who have recovered from Covid-19 provide services that would be dangerous for non-immune people to offer. In Belgrade volunteers organise virtual coffee mornings and crisis counselling. Students in Prague are babysitting the children of doctors and nurses. Estates in Dublin have invented balcony bingo: the caller sits in the square between the blocks of flats with a large speaker, while the players sit on their balconies, taking down the numbers.

    In the UK, thousands of mutual aid groups have been picking up shopping and prescriptions, installing digital equipment for elderly people and setting up telephone friendship teams. A mothers’ running group in Bristol have restyled themselves “drug runners”, keeping fit by delivering medicines from chemists’ shops to people who can’t leave their homes. A virtual pub quiz organised on Facebook brought togethermore than 100,000 people.

    Rooftop aerobics, singing and letters: how communities are coping in coronavirus quarantine – video

    Around the world, self-organised groups of doctors, technicians, engineers and hackers are crowdsourcing missing equipment and expertise. In Latvia, programmers organised a 48-hour hackathon to design the lightest face shield components that could be produced with a 3D printer. A number of UK groups are encouraging companies with protective equipment in their storerooms to give it to frontline health workers. In the Philippines, fashion designers have repurposed their workshops to produce protective suits. Sharing techniques through the website PatternReview, home sewers have been mass-producing masks and scrubs.

    In just one week, a group of doctors, technicians and other experts organised themselves to design a crowdsourced ventilator, the OxVent, which can be produced from widely available parts for under £1,000. Another design, VentilatorPAL, can be manufactured for $370, according to the community of technicians that created it. The Coronavirus Tech Handbook is an open-source library pooling technologies and new organisational models for beating the pandemic. In the US, self-organised expert groups are filling some of the catastrophic gaps in public health provision, carrying out testing and tracking projects, creating directories of vulnerable people and speed-matching medical specialists with the hospitals that need them.The horror films got it wrong. Instead of turning us into flesh-eating zombies, the pandemic has turned millions of people into good neighbours.

    In their book Free, Fair and Alive, David Bollier and Silke Helfrich define the commons as “a social form that enables people to enjoy freedom without repressing others, enact fairness without bureaucratic control … and assert sovereignty without nationalism”. The commons are neither capitalist nor communist, market nor state. They are an insurgency of social power, in which we come together as equals to confront our shared predicaments.

    A thousand books and films and business fables assure us that the fairytale ending to which we should all aspire is to become a millionaire. Then we can isolate ourselves from society in a mansion with high walls, with private healthcare, private education and a private jet. The commons envisages the opposite outcome: finding meaning, purpose and satisfaction by working together to enhance the lives of all. In times of crisis, we rediscover our social nature.

    You can tell a lot about a society from its quirks of language. We repeatedly misuse the word “social”. We talk about social distancing when we mean physical distancing. We talk about social security and the social safety net when we mean economic security and the economic safety net. While economic security comes (or should come) from government, social security arises from community. One of the extraordinary features of the response to Covid-19 is that, during this self-isolation, some people – especially elderly people – feel less isolated than they have done for years, as their neighbours ensure they are not alone.

    We still need the state: to provide healthcare, education and an economic safety net, to distribute wealth between communities, to prevent any private interest from becoming too powerful, and to defend us from threats. It currently performs these functions poorly, by design. But if we rely on the state alone, we find ourselves sorted into silos of provisioning and highly vulnerable to cuts. Rich social lives are replaced with cold, transactional relations. Community, then, is not a substitute for the state, but an essential complement.

    There is no guarantee that this resurgence of collective action will survive the pandemic. We could revert to the isolation and passivity that both capitalism and statism have encouraged. But I don’t think we will. I have the sense that something is taking root now, something we have been missing: the unexpectedly thrilling and transformative force of mutual aid."

    George Monbiot is a Guardian columnist
    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    I have a lifestyle that makes me more suited than most to cope with lockdown. So when like today I have a bad day, I think how tolerant we need to be of people who bend the rules to get by. And how we need to take a positive view of what is happening. In France, we don’t talk of lockdown, but of “confinement”. Normally speaking there are no obstetric connotations involved, but let’s just suppose there were: what are we bringing into the world? Right now George Monbiot is the man to read:
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...bours-covid-19
    Last edited by onawah; 31st March 2020 at 23:43.
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Germany Avalon Member Icare's Avatar
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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Thank you for posting this.

    The link is in French. Could someone translate it, maybe?

    Mod note from Bill: The audio has now been fixed (it's in English!), and the re-timestamped post moved to here:

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1347424


    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 1st April 2020 at 20:49.

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    Avalon Member lunaflare's Avatar
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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Yes, the virus has turned us into "caring neighbours". I think this is our innate way of being-- to care-take so the "whole" benefits--seeing ourselves in our neighbours, so to speak
    That was a great compilation of global examples.

    I also feel the love and support of the natural world.
    Our home
    Today I found myself saying (as I walked along the beach) to the Earth...
    Thank you for having us
    Although we are supporting each other, caring for each other, it is imperative to care for this Earth--our archetypal mother
    I would have liked the article to include this too
    This is critical

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by Phoenix (here)
    looks like i can only post here now. Bill banned me from the other thread because I disagree with him. sad. not much different than facebook or google deciding what the truth is..
    welcome to many , same as you. You are lucky, you didn't receive

    "But you're in total denial. And that's an abrogation of your professional, ethical responsibility."

    Here
    respond.
    Love and Hope

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by graciousb (here)
    We are being pressured to fall in line, to sing and cheer at our own imprisonment, to romanticize it as a 'reset'' , etc, or to risk being shamed and demonized in the town square.
    Welcome to my world, where I have always been the Gadarene Swine or Scapegoat Azazel.

    I would say that safety is the supreme personal concept, and certainly not something to presume that authorities provide the answers for. I can agree with punishing someone who actually has committed crimes, but, all of the "pre-emptive" stuff is ridiculous. In the past few years, our actual damages have come from a bath-salted local, a Mexican drunk driver, and an unknown thief that came shortly after an Al Qaeda figure was acting stupidly on the property; he might have been looking for the neighbor.

    As far as the "caring neighbors" concept, that certainly won't happen here, since the neighbor is the U. S. military. Around the localities, I am not aware of anything "good" happening, except possibly a big prayer meeting which became the main conduit of viral transmission. Big difference from worldwide communities. This is neither a culture or a community, it is more like miscegenation crossed with mass production.

    The first interlocutor I mentioned could be described as a product of successful capitalism, enough to be running free after an arrest record at thirty larger than that of sixty-year-old career criminals. In this case, we agree with the local low-level authorities (Deputies) who said we should have killed him.

    The tidbit about Norwegian coronavirus survivors sounds much closer to what I have in mind. Go through it, and you no longer care, it's over, you can help wherever it's bad. If I have to sit around unemployed, I may as well be sick, because if that happened during an ordinary working situation, there would be no compensation and I would probably be fired without benefits. That seems what is likely to happen, probably to a whole heap of us, whenever the ban is lifted. I think we need more of a realistic "when you catch it" safety net, than this pretend thing of "we'll protect you from it".

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  24. Link to Post #233
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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    The horror films got it wrong. This virus has turned us into caring neighbours
    George Monbiot
    3/31/20
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...bours-covid-19
    The virus of fear also turned neighbors into prison guards.

    But there's always hope.

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by Phoenix (here)
    looks like i can only post here now. Bill banned me from the other thread because I disagree with him. sad. not much different than facebook or google deciding what the truth is..
    Here we go again like with Q. Someone tries to start a 'contrarian' thread to let each side leave each other alone and prevent each side from having to constantly deal with unwelcome interruption of their conversation flow, but only the Pro-Q thread is protected from invaders while the contrarian thread is instantly infiltrated by conversation polluters who can't leave us alone. I'm still irked by king Q-idiot Paul who fiercely guarded his kingdom from anti-Q posters, but kept righteously posting his condescension prolifically on the anti-Q thread himself.

    So sorry to hear that Phoenix. Especially in this dire situation where fact backed substance and clear thinking has never been needed more, I thought you had every right to call out any closed mind ignoring substantial contrary facts exactly how you said it. We need more boldness here, not couched words which really is ultimately lying - not really being yourself and saying it how you really feel. Forcing pussyfooting encourages shallowness and disingenuousness.

    But this time everything is on the line for everyone. In this literal emergency, I request the right for at least the Contrarian thread members be allowed to speak more freely than Avalon has so rigidly suppressed for so long, and I request the same kicking out of non-contrarians on this thread as being kicked out of the pro-narrative thread and a strict enforcement for both sides for a change.

    There is no reason to have the relentless choppyness and pollution of a continued battle between those rejecting the msm statistics/narrative and those buying statistics face value in both threads. Right?

    Please?
    Last edited by waves; 1st April 2020 at 03:14. Reason: fixed missed edits

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    Quote Posted by Phoenix (here)
    looks like i can only post here now. Bill banned me from the other thread because I disagree with him. sad. not much different than facebook or google deciding what the truth is..
    Here we go again like with Q. Someone tries to start a 'contrarian' thread to let each side leave each other alone and prevent each side from having to constantly deal with unwelcome interruption of their conversation flow, but only the Pro-Q thread is protected from invaders while the contrarian thread is instantly infiltrated by conversation polluters who can't leave us alone. I'm still irked by king Q-uidiot Paul who fiercely guarded his kingdom from anti-Q posters, but kept righteously posting his condescension prolifically on the anti-Q thread himself.

    So sorry to hear that Phoenix. Especially in this dire situation where fact backed substance and clear thinking has never been needed more, I thought you had every right to call out any closed mind ignoring substantial contrary facts exactly how you said it. We need more boldness here, not couched words which really is ultimately lying - not really being yourself and saying it how you really feel. Forcing pussyfooting encourages shallowness and disingenuousness.

    But this time everything is on the line for everyone. In this literal emergency, I request the right for at least the Contrarian thread members be allowed to speak more freely than Avalon has so rigidly suppressed for so long, and I request the same kicking out of non-contrarians on this thread as being kicked out of the pro-narrative thread and a strict enforcement for both sides for a change.

    There is no reason to have the relentless choppyness and pollution of a continued battle between those rejecting the msm statistics/narrative and a thread for those buying statistics face value in both threads. Right?

    Please?
    Thanks for the support waves. I agree, soft language and avoiding confrontation is almost as bad as lying itself.

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    "The key event in the current COVID operation was the sudden Chinese government lockdown of 50 million citizens overnight in three major cities. That was the signal the CDC and the World Health Organization received with open arms.

    “Well, they broke the ice. This is what we’ve been waiting for. This is now a model we can sell. Lockdowns on a massive scale.” "

    Jon Rappaport

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by Tangri (here)
    Quote Posted by Phoenix (here)
    looks like i can only post here now. Bill banned me from the other thread because I disagree with him. sad. not much different than facebook or google deciding what the truth is..
    welcome to many , same as you. You are lucky, you didn't receive

    "But you're in total denial. And that's an abrogation of your professional, ethical responsibility."

    Here
    respond.
    thanks Tangri! I was told something similar too heh

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    So Waves, if I understand you correctly you would deny those who see the odious Jon Rappaport for the ignorant zealot that he is, the right to express that opinion here? He claims to believe the coronavirus is a hoax that big Pharma started or was heavily involved with, if I am not mistaken. So he will manage to draw some of those who are rightfully suspicious of big P and vaccine industry into his sphere. They have to understand he is leveraging those sensibilities to draw attention to himself.

    According to Rappaport, Aids was a hoax. Zika virus was a hoax and now coronavirus. Only in his imagination. He has a twin preoccupation with the powers of the imagination and indeed seems to be fantasy prone. Typical narcissist going for as many clicks as possible.

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    "The key event in the current COVID operation was the sudden Chinese government lockdown of 50 million citizens overnight in three major cities. That was the signal the CDC and the World Health Organization received with open arms.

    “Well, they broke the ice. This is what we’ve been waiting for. This is now a model we can sell. Lockdowns on a massive scale.” "

    Jon Rappaport
    Does it occur to anybody on this particular thread that the coronavirus is a very real threat that governments have a responsibility to react to? At the same time, the powers that are handed them by a frightened populace during times of emergency, will set a precedent (most likely)? It is such limited thinking to believe that it is either one or the other.

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    "The key event in the current COVID operation was the sudden Chinese government lockdown of 50 million citizens overnight in three major cities. That was the signal the CDC and the World Health Organization received with open arms.

    “Well, they broke the ice. This is what we’ve been waiting for. This is now a model we can sell. Lockdowns on a massive scale.” "

    Jon Rappaport
    Does it occur to anybody on this particular thread that the coronavirus is a very real threat that governments have a responsibility to react to? At the same time, the powers that are handed them by a frightened populace during times of emergency, will set a precedent (most likely)? It is such limited thinking to believe that it is either one or the other.
    With all due respect why must we be continually chastised for expressing our thoughts? This is the Contrarian thread after all. Maybe it's a real threat and maybe it isn't. If you can't deal with questioning that, then I suggest the other thread would be the place for you. This is getting a little disturbing, I'm gonna say. Whom do you feel we are harming by stretching our little envelope of thought here?
    Last edited by Caliban; 1st April 2020 at 04:05.

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