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Thread: COVID-19 Contrarians

  1. Link to Post #241
    United States Avalon Member Luke Holiday's Avatar
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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    So Waves, if I understand you correctly you would deny those who see the odious Jon Rappaport for the ignorant zealot that he is, the right to express that opinion here? He claims to believe the coronavirus is a hoax that big Pharma started or was heavily involved with, if I am not mistaken. So he will manage to draw some of those who are rightfully suspicious of big P and vaccine industry into his sphere. They have to understand he is leveraging those sensibilities to draw attention to himself.

    According to Rappaport, Aids was a hoax. Zika virus was a hoax and now coronavirus. Only in his imagination. He has a twin preoccupation with the powers of the imagination and indeed seems to be fantasy prone. Typical narcissist going for as many clicks as possible.
    Hello Autumn,


    Just curious … what are you basing the moniker you have given JR - ignorant zealot on?


    Also, do you think you have done as much or more research then JR on this subject to make such a brazen claim?

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    He ignores data that doesn't prefectly conform to his world view. Therefore he is literally ignorant. As far as Zealot goes, I probably used the wrong word. Zealots are those who will follow their ideology to their own destruction, where he is following his for clicks and attention.

    Should have used the noun 'extremist' as in he is too extreme in his views. He takes a kernel of solid research, anchors himself on that research and then branches off. Wayyyyyy offffff. Balancing on those flimsy branches he pulls yarns out of his ass and spins a web of fantasy. That is a text book fantasist/fanatic. As in extremist, not to be taken seriously, a doofus, and possibly a goofball. Just sayin...

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    "The key event in the current COVID operation was the sudden Chinese government lockdown of 50 million citizens overnight in three major cities. That was the signal the CDC and the World Health Organization received with open arms.

    “Well, they broke the ice. This is what we’ve been waiting for. This is now a model we can sell. Lockdowns on a massive scale.” "

    Jon Rappaport
    Does it occur to anybody on this particular thread that the coronavirus is a very real threat that governments have a responsibility to react to? At the same time, the powers that are handed them by a frightened populace during times of emergency, will set a precedent (most likely)? It is such limited thinking to believe that it is either one or the other.
    With all due respect why must we be continually chastised for expressing our thoughts? This is the Contrarian thread after all. Maybe it's a real threat and maybe it isn't. If you can't deal with questioning that, then I suggest the other thread would be the place for you. This is getting a little disturbing, I'm gonna say. Whom do you feel we are harming by stretching our little envelope of thought here?
    I am expressing my thoughts too. You haven't been chastised. I asked an honest question and it would be great if you thought about it. Jon Rappaport is fair game as he is not a member or a poster here, as far as I know, so I feel free to say exactly how I feel about him.

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)

    Does it occur to anybody on this particular thread that the coronavirus is a very real threat that governments have a responsibility to react to? At the same time, the powers that are handed them by a frightened populace during times of emergency, will set a precedent (most likely)? It is such limited thinking to believe that it is either one or the other.
    I can accept that "hospital overload" is quite real.

    I do not understand why anyone is frightened. As long as they are, I suppose they continue to surrender anything to those who propose to protect them.

    I do not understand why "night gatherings" are so bad, if I went somewhere at 5 and found somebody was sick, I would not be allowed to leave. I can understand "total lockdown" to prevent all human contact, but a "half lockdown" from a curfew does not make sense to me.

    If we actually owned our property and grew our own food, very little of this would make any difference. It perhaps is an indicator of how nasty cities actually are. So far, our rural areas have no cases (30% of counties).

    If it happens, you can be refused treatment for not having insurance, so I am not sure the government helps very much, unless it re-builds the entire health care system. That part is nothing new. If government is obliged to promote "general welfare and security", then it would not have allowed this system to start, and if they have a track record of mostly failure, no reason to expect them to "get it" now. Although a bunch of sickness and death within their ranks may, perhaps, help the powerful see life as us nobodies do.

    Insurance, banks, and government produce nothing, why should they be in charge of everything? Perhaps this will simply erase the financial sector, since it has been realized that it cannot do a single thing about material supply lines and other tangible situations.

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    More non-virus causal factors in “epidemic cases”—hospitals
    by Jon Rappoport
    March 31, 2020

    (I find Rappaport's perspective to be quite valid, a perspective that definitely needs to be considered, among others.
    Here's his latest):
    https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020...ses-hospitals/

    "As my long-time readers know, since 1987 in my investigations of fake epidemics, I’ve deployed the strategy of finding actual causes of illness and death that have nothing to do with the latest and greatest hype about a “new virus” creating widespread harm.

    In other words, I show there is no need to invoke a novel and unproven virus, in order to explain the so-called epidemic effects.

    I have been doing that all along during this false COVID pandemic (full archive here).

    In today’s episode of medical worshipers go crazy and virus fakery, let’s go to the hospitals to find yet more NON-VIRUS causes of illness and death in supposed “coronavirus patients.”

    Three questions:

    If hospitals are overwhelmed with patients, as night follows day it must be the coronavirus. Right?

    WRONG.

    If patients are on breathing ventilators, as night follows day their problem must be the coronavirus. Right?

    WRONG.

    If patients are being put on ibuprofen, as night follows day their problem must be the coronavirus. Right?

    WRONG.

    Before I explain what “wrong” means in each instance, an overview of hospital care in the US is instructive. The reference is Journal of the American Medical Association, July 26, 2000, Dr. Barbara Starfield, a revered public health expert at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health. Starfield’s review was: “Is US Health Really the Best in the World?” She blows the whistle on her own elite colleagues and vast numbers of other medical providers. Among her findings:

    Annual number of deaths caused by mistreatment and errors in US hospitals: 119,000.

    This should give pause for thought. Instead of blithely assuming that so-called coronavirus patients who die in hospitals are dying from the virus, consider the effects of care IN the hospitals.

    Now let’s get to the three questions I asked above. What about overwhelmed hospitals? Surely, this must mean coronavirus cases are the cause, right? What else could it be? Overwhelmed hospitals are a new phenomenon, paralleling the rise of COVID, right?

    Here, from Time magazine, is a sample report from 2018, long BEFORE COVID supposedly emerged. “Hospitals overwhelmed by flu patients are treating them in tents”:

    “The 2017-2018 influenza epidemic is sending people to hospitals and urgent-care centers in every state, and medical centers are responding with extraordinary measures: asking staff to work overtime, setting up triage tents, restricting friends and family visits and canceling elective surgeries, to name a few.”

    “’We are pretty much at capacity, and the volume is certainly different from previous flu seasons’,” says Dr. Alfred Tallia, professor and chair of family medicine at the Robert Wood Johnson Medical Center in New Brunswick, New Jersey. ‘I’ve been in practice for 30 years, and it’s been a good 15 or 20 years since I’ve seen a flu-related illness scenario like we’ve had this year’.”

    “Tallia says his hospital is ‘managing, but just barely,’ at keeping up with the increased number of sick patients in the last three weeks. The hospital’s urgent-care centers have also been inundated, and its outpatient clinics have no appointments available.”

    “The story is similar in Alabama, which declared a state of emergency last week in response to the flu epidemic. Dr. Bernard Camins, associate professor of infectious diseases at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, says that UAB Hospital cancelled elective surgeries scheduled for Thursday and Friday of last week to make more beds available to flu patients.”

    “’We had to treat patients in places where we normally wouldn’t, like in recovery rooms,’ says Camins. ‘The emergency room was very crowded, both with sick patients who needed to be admitted and patients who just needed to be seen and given [toxic] Tamiflu’.”

    “In California, which has been particularly hard hit by this season’s flu, several hospitals have set up large ‘surge tents’ outside their emergency departments to accommodate and treat flu patients. Even then, the LA Times reported this week, emergency departments had standing-room only, and some patients had to be treated in hallways.”

    “The Lehigh Valley Health System in Allentown, Pennsylvania, set up a similar surge tent in its parking lot on Monday, in response to an increase in patients presenting with various viral illnesses, including norovirus, respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) and the flu. ‘We’ve put it into operation a couples times now over the last few days,’ said a hospital spokesperson. ‘I think Tuesday we saw upwards of about 40 people in the tent itself’.”

    “Many hospitals are also encouraging visitors to stay away. Kaiser Permanente Los Angeles Medical Center announced last week that it was temporarily restricting visits from children 14 and under and anyone with flu symptoms. ‘This measure is to prevent unnecessary spread of influenza and to protect you, our patients, and our staff,’ the health system posted on Facebook.”

    “Loyola University Health System in Chicago—which set a hospital flu-activity record of 190 confirmed cases between January 7 and 13—has also instituted similar visitor restrictions, although a spokesperson for the hospital says it’s a standard precaution for flu season. Loyola also requires all employees to receive a mandatory flu shot, a policy it started in 2009.”

    “In Fenton, Missouri, SSM Health St. Clare Hospital has opened its emergency overflow wing, as well as all outpatient centers and surgical holding centers, to make more beds available to patients who need them. Nurses are being ‘pulled from all floors to care for them,’ says registered nurse Jennifer Braciszewski, and are being offered an increased hourly rate to work above and beyond their normal schedules. Many nurses have also become sick, however, so the staff is also short-handed…”

    —All this, before 2019. Before the “epidemic.”

    You can find other stories of such hospital problems. In Italy, for example, before the “epidemic,” the waiting lists for hospital appointments could stretch out for months—revealing the whole system was heavily stressed, already overburdened, and short-staffed before the latter part of 2019.

    Second question: If patients are on breathing ventilators, as night follows day their problem must be the coronavirus. Right?

    Not necessarily. For example, what about potential adverse effects of the ventilators themselves? From the US National Institutes of Health, here is a list of those effects. As you read them, keep in mind that many hospital patients entering the wards already have pneumonia (and, of course, breathing problems):

    “One of the most serious and common risks of being on a ventilator is pneumonia. The breathing tube that’s put in your airway can allow bacteria to enter your lungs. As a result, you may develop ventilator-associated pneumonia (VAP).”

    “The breathing tube also makes it hard for you to cough. Coughing helps clear your airways of lung irritants that can cause infections.”

    “VAP is a major concern for people using ventilators because they’re often already very sick. Pneumonia may make it harder to treat their other disease or condition [like PNEUMONIA].”

    “…Using a ventilator also can put you at risk for other problems, such as:
    * Pneumothorax (noo-mo-THOR-aks). This is a condition in which air leaks out of the lungs and into the space between the lungs and the chest wall. This can cause pain and shortness of breath, and it may cause one or both lungs to collapse.
    * Lung damage. Pushing air into the lungs with too much pressure can harm the lungs.
    * Oxygen toxicity. High levels of oxygen can damage the lungs.”
    “These problems may occur because of the forced airflow or high levels of oxygen from the ventilator.”

    “Using a ventilator also can put you at risk for blood clots and serious skin infections. These problems tend to occur in people who have certain diseases and/or who are confined to bed or a wheelchair and must remain in one position for long periods…”

    Third question: can ibuprofen cause problems?

    From drugs.com, here is a list of adverse effects from Advil:

    “Advil can increase your risk of fatal heart attack or stroke, especially if you use it long term or take high doses, or if you have heart disease. Even people without heart disease or risk factors could have a stroke or heart attack while taking this medicine.”
    “Do not use this medicine just before or after heart bypass surgery (coronary artery bypass graft, or CABG).”
    “Advil may also cause stomach or intestinal bleeding, which can be fatal. These conditions can occur without warning while you are using ibuprofen, especially in older adults.”
    “You should not use Advil if you are allergic to ibuprofen, or if you have ever had an asthma attack [breathing problems] or severe allergic reaction after taking aspirin or an NSAID.”
    “Ask a doctor or pharmacist if it is safe for you to take this medicine if you have:
    * heart disease, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, or if you smoke;
    * a history of heart attack, stroke, or blood clot;
    * a history of stomach ulcers or bleeding;
    * asthma;
    * liver or kidney disease;
    * fluid retention; or
    * a connective tissue disease such as Marfan syndrome, Sjogren’s syndrome, or lupus.”
    “Taking Advil during the last 3 months of pregnancy may harm the unborn baby.Do not use this medicine without a doctor’s advice if you are pregnant.”
    “It is not known whether ibuprofen passes into breast milk or if it could affect a nursing baby. Ask a doctor before using this medicine if you are breastfeeding.”

    NOTE: Antiviral drugs, given to many people diagnosed with COVID, have serious toxic adverse effects.

    Getting the picture? It isn’t always the reason a person COMES to hospital which causes the worst problem. It can be what happens IN the hospital, including death. Unrelated to any purported COVID virus. And yet, the increased illness or death would be written up as a “coronavirus case.” "

    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    "The key event in the current COVID operation was the sudden Chinese government lockdown of 50 million citizens overnight in three major cities. That was the signal the CDC and the World Health Organization received with open arms.

    “Well, they broke the ice. This is what we’ve been waiting for. This is now a model we can sell. Lockdowns on a massive scale.” "

    Rappaport
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Quote Posted by Caliban (here)
    "The key event in the current COVID operation was the sudden Chinese government lockdown of 50 million citizens overnight in three major cities. That was the signal the CDC and the World Health Organization received with open arms.

    “Well, they broke the ice. This is what we’ve been waiting for. This is now a model we can sell. Lockdowns on a massive scale.” "

    Jon Rappaport
    Does it occur to anybody on this particular thread that the coronavirus is a very real threat that governments have a responsibility to react to? At the same time, the powers that are handed them by a frightened populace during times of emergency, will set a precedent (most likely)? It is such limited thinking to believe that it is either one or the other.
    With all due respect why must we be continually chastised for expressing our thoughts? This is the Contrarian thread after all. Maybe it's a real threat and maybe it isn't. If you can't deal with questioning that, then I suggest the other thread would be the place for you. This is getting a little disturbing, I'm gonna say. Whom do you feel we are harming by stretching our little envelope of thought here?
    I am expressing my thoughts too. You haven't been chastised. I asked an honest question and it would be great if you thought about it. Jon Rappaport is fair game as he is not a member or a poster here, as far as I know, so I feel free to say exactly how I feel about him.
    It was just condescending. We're not children. Do I have to even say this? This is supposed to be a place for free thought. "Does it occur to anybody..." No, we haven't considered the possbility. We just automatically march the other direction.

    As for Rappoport, I'm not going to defend him. How can I, to someone who considers him "odious"? He along with Icke and some others has often been cited here in the last few weeks because he is doing a monumental job of challenging the Medical Cartel, the media, both mainstream and alt, and the governments. He's been reporting on medical fraud, lies and deceptions for 35 years or so. Did you read the many pieces he's done since this CV started? He's not just saying "hoax", he's explaining how the machinery of that Cartel works, how it's worked on many other of these virus "outbreaks" in the past. Then again, I'm not here to defend him, right...

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Shabaron,

    Half lockdowns work as they slow the infection rate, so that hospitals don't become overloaded and organizations have time to react. I totally agree with you.

    We will all likely get this virus at some point. I figure if everyone wore a mask in public for a good while, that might work as well as partial lockdowns. In that way, I don't blame people for being suspicious of 'govt.' Truth be told, I figure this may be a military bioweapon from Fort Detrick targeting China and the U.S. is experiencing blowback. This is pure 'maybe,' in my mind. It could also be a natural event. Nothing should be ruled out. At the same time, stating anything with complete certainty as to cause is premature though you can find plenty of people who are just adamant that they are in the know, have superior intellect and "have done the research" so they just know for sure.

    I have an immune disorder, so if I am exposed to this I might sail through it better than most or have a cytokine storm reaction that kills me. This is the weirdest damn thing to ponder. Sometime in the next couple of years, its going to happen and I have to have all of my ducks in a row and my loved ones covered if I go. Maybe that's why the "it's no problem. It's really a hoax" idea bugs me so much.

    I have a strong feeling that at some point in the next 2 or 3 months, things are going to get so dire economically, it will make sense for everyone to don a mask, cross their fingers and go back to work. People like me and the very old will resume life as somewhat normal and whatever will be will be.

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Sweden and Belarus are doing next to nothing in terms of lockdown.

    "The approach has been broadly well received by the public, who view it as a more sensible course of action than the draconian steps taken in other countries."

    In some hotspots such as UK and New York with their restrictions:

    "... in the week ending on the 8th of March 2019, 10,898 people died in total in the UK. This year, in the week ending the 6th of March 2020, the equivalent figure was almost identical: 10,895.

    An article this morning claims NYC is facing a catastrophe because they have had 450 Coronavirus deaths since January & someone is dying every 17 minutes.

    So you know—regularly, NYC has 419 deaths every single day & loses a person every 9 minutes."


    I am not sure that a great deal of "extra" deaths come from this. A nasty disease that for many people might require treatment, and is extra fatal to those with "complications", i. e. mainly died from some other cause when they were weakened by Coronavirus, is perhaps accurate. "Hoax" is not a good term, since there is something real, and one can only watch if Sweden and Belarus deteriorate beyond the conditions of other countries.

    As for Ibuprofen, I would never use it again. Some years back I took it due to an injury. It did what it was supposed to do, but then nearly killed me. I started developing an anaphylaxis which included dermatographism that lasted about a year. I figured that the liver mainly uses copper to process toxins and ate cashews as one of the best sources, which seemed to help get rid of it. I have never used another pharmaceutical product since, and probably never will.

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Caliban, Rappaport overdoes it. Not all medicine is part of a cartel and not every outbreak is somehow the product or entwined with said cartel. I am anti-vaccine, as they are currently administered to children, btw.

    Rappaport is like so many in the alternative community. They start out great. (I followed Rappaport) 15 years ago and he was amazing. Then they run out of fresh material and in their pursuit of clicks start to engage in a lot of highly questionable speculation. They have to to retain the spotlight so they indulge their own paranoia and smear it all over Youtube. He is not altogether wrong, and that is the problem. He is just mostly wrong and many who resonate with some of his core ideas aren't catching where he is indulging the emotions rather than appealing to reason.
    If I sounded condescending, I do apologize, heartily.

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by Luke Holiday (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    So Waves, if I understand you correctly you would deny those who see the odious Jon Rappaport for the ignorant zealot that he is, the right to express that opinion here? He claims to believe the coronavirus is a hoax that big Pharma started or was heavily involved with, if I am not mistaken. So he will manage to draw some of those who are rightfully suspicious of big P and vaccine industry into his sphere. They have to understand he is leveraging those sensibilities to draw attention to himself.

    According to Rappaport, Aids was a hoax. Zika virus was a hoax and now coronavirus. Only in his imagination. He has a twin preoccupation with the powers of the imagination and indeed seems to be fantasy prone. Typical narcissist going for as many clicks as possible.
    Hello Autumn,


    Just curious … what are you basing the moniker you have given JR - ignorant zealot on?


    Also, do you think you have done as much or more research then JR on this subject to make such a brazen claim?
    Autumn has been on my ignore list for years for the endless shallow armchair pot shots on subjects she could not hold an in depth conversation about in the least - like the entire AIDS story obviously. I think it's time to not even engage with her or any other people that want to impose themselves on a thread trying to keep to the thread's intention. It is exactly an example of what I was talking about - this is a thread for contrarians that she has no interest in respecting the premise of. I assume I have the right to use what Bill felt was appropriate when necessary: "Autumn, your blindness is frightening". You're not welcome here. Bill, would you please ban her from here now conversely?

    ~~~~~

    JR has been one of the most grounded and inclusive big picture observers so far to me. He is excellent at citing what he finds questionable, exactly the reasons he is making his hypothesis and never comes of preachy. I respect him for that.

    One big drowned out issue that has occurred to me... where are the accompanying counts of the daily 1000's of deaths NOT from cv within each statistic?




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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Sweden and Belarus are doing next to nothing in terms of lockdown.

    "The approach has been broadly well received by the public, who view it as a more sensible course of action than the draconian steps taken in other countries."

    In some hotspots such as UK and New York with their restrictions:

    "... in the week ending on the 8th of March 2019, 10,898 people died in total in the UK. This year, in the week ending the 6th of March 2020, the equivalent figure was almost identical: 10,895.

    An article this morning claims NYC is facing a catastrophe because they have had 450 Coronavirus deaths since January & someone is dying every 17 minutes.

    So you know—regularly, NYC has 419 deaths every single day & loses a person every 9 minutes."


    I am not sure that a great deal of "extra" deaths come from this. A nasty disease that for many people might require treatment, and is extra fatal to those with "complications", i. e. mainly died from some other cause when they were weakened by Coronavirus, is perhaps accurate. "Hoax" is not a good term, since there is something real, and one can only watch if Sweden and Belarus deteriorate beyond the conditions of other countries.

    As for Ibuprofen, I would never use it again. Some years back I took it due to an injury. It did what it was supposed to do, but then nearly killed me. I started developing an anaphylaxis which included dermatographism that lasted about a year. I figured that the liver mainly uses copper to process toxins and ate cashews as one of the best sources, which seemed to help get rid of it. I have never used another pharmaceutical product since, and probably never will.
    Terrible about ibuprophen. It is a horrible drug and nobody should take it. I'm not sure if it was this drug or another non steroidal anti-inflammatory drug where it was found the maker had fudged all the data on side effects, some of them dangerous, like yours. And yet....it is still on the market. Big pharma IS terrible, by and large. I completely agree with that sentiment. Sorry to hear you went through that. It must have been terrifying.

    Sweden is practicing physical distancing and being careful. That's what its government's asked them to do and that is why they are doing it. Good. Their numbers are climbing, I heard but I think their hospitals are okay. Not sure.

    It's likely that the U.S. will usher in a full on military dictatorship through this epidemic. If there was a plan, or if this is just an on the fly decision, a product of opportunistic thinking is a question. But....nothing right now is very clear.

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    He is doing a monumental job of challenging the Medical Cartel, the media, both mainstream and alt, and the governments. Caliban

    And he alone knows exactly how to put it all together, without any gaps and all based on good old fashioned muck raking. I am sure he wouldn't comb through a raft of poorly sourced and unsubstantiated material on the internet to fill in the blanks. He is a dot connecting super hero and a Trump supporter apparently? Or has he changed his tune on that?

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Hi Guys, here is some research that I personally did myself today. I am trained as a Chemical Engineer from a university that was ranked in the top 5 in the USA for this specification at the time, so, I'm not stupid.

    Here's some critical thinking. I am not saying I KNOW all of this 100%, but here is some investigative research:

    In 2012, the CIA declassified this scientific study that occured in 1977:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mX1...0XhBQSpDv/view

    Summary:

    “Morphological, functional, and biochemical studies conducted in humans and animals revealed that millimeter waves caused changes in the body manifested in the structural alterations in the skin and internal organs, qualitative and quantitative changes of the blood and bone marrow composition and changes of the conditioned reflex activity, tissue respiration, activity of enzymes participating in the process of tissue respiration and nucleic metabolism.
    The degree of unfavorable effect of millimeter waves depended on the duration of the radiation and individual characteristics of the organism.”

    N.P. Zalyubovskaya, 1977

    MY Takeaway: Seems like millimeter waves are dangerous depending on the duration of the radiation and characteristics of the organism.

    What exactly is Tissue Respiration?

    "The exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide between the atmosphere and the body cells, including inhalation and exhalation, diffusion of oxygen from the pulmonary alveoli to the blood and of carbon dioxide from the blood to the alveoli, followed by the transport of oxygen to and carbon dioxide from the body cells."

    source: https://medical-dictionary.thefreedi...ue+respiration

    MY Takeaway: OK, so millimeter waves are dangerous to basic breathing depending on the duration of the radiation and characteristics of the organism.

    Ok, so what does that have to do with today, and why does it matter? 5G. What is 5G?

    Millimeter wave technology being rolled out across the world.

    OK, where is 5G?

    In US: Coming to a city near you...or already there. Here;s T-Mobile's map: https://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/5g-coverage-map

    In Wuhan, China: https://5g-emf.com/wuhan-was-the-pro...-deadly-virus/

    What did we all see videos of poor Wuhan chinese people collapsing on the streets of? Hypoxia (Issues Breathing)

    "Hypoxia is a condition in which the body or a region of the body is deprived of adequate oxygen supply at the tissue level."

    MY Takeaway: OK, so millimeter waves are dangerous to basic breathing depending on the duration of the radiation and characteristics of the organism; and I saw many videos of people collapsing, unable to breathe, in Wuhan, China where there are 10,000+ 5G towers currently.

    Also it is well documented that the amount of pollution in Wuhan is horrific, thus adding into the mix here that the people's cells were already heavily damaged from the pollution...

    Next time, we look at:
    - Electroportation (a microbiology technique in which an electrical field is applied to cells in order to increase the permeability of the cell membrane, allowing chemicals, drugs, or DNA to be introduced into the cell)
    - Corona-virus (a corona discharge is an electrical discharge brought on by the ionization of a fluid such as air)
    - Virus Exosomes
    - Vaccines

    Who's doing this: it's obivous...
    Why: obvious...

    Conclusion: this could explain the weird and non-standard responses people are having to the supposed 'virus' in different locations.

    Idea: we should all pull together and make a google sheet on REAL people we know who have gotten pnemonia-like illness over the past 3 months, and for them to honestly list their comorbities, and have them search the publicly available 5G maps to connect their health history with 5G potential interference...

    UPDATE:

    Also, some have said this doesnt make sense since there's no 5G in Iran, but this article would say otherwise: https://financialtribune.com/article...est-5g-systems

    5G in Italy: https://www.gsmarena.com/italy_becom...news-37424.php

    5G already blanketing the US as well, search it and see Tmobile, Verizon and others coverage maps...
    Last edited by Phoenix; 1st April 2020 at 05:49.

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Here is an article that all here should find intriguing. It's about the highly credentialed and respected microbiologist working at Fort Detrick who was fingered for the anthras attacks. For anyone wondering if elements within the U.S. military (not the entire military!) are capable of creating mayhem with biological agents, please read. This is so darned fishy. There's pretty suspicious history that supports biowarfare theory of corona virus--in that, nobody can say that, "Oh, they would never do such a thing."


    Bruce Ivins, a microbiologist at the US Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID) at Fort Detrick, Maryland, reportedly committed suicide after ingesting prescription-strength Tylenol and codeine, as the FBI prepared to charge him in the anthrax attacks weeks after the 9/11 attack in 2001.

    Ivins was part of the FBI team that investigated the anthrax sent in letters to the Senate’s Democratic leadership.


    https://www.globalresearch.ca/fort-d...closes-in/9730

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    I figure if everyone wore a mask in public for a good while, that might work as well as partial lockdowns. In that way, I don't blame people for being suspicious of 'govt.' Truth be told, I figure this may be a military bioweapon from Fort Detrick targeting China and the U.S. is experiencing blowback. This is pure 'maybe,' in my mind. It could also be a natural event. Nothing should be ruled out. At the same time, stating anything with complete certainty as to cause is premature though you can find plenty of people who are just adamant that they are in the know, have superior intellect and "have done the research" so they just know for sure.



    The mask seems to be mainly effective to prevent you from spreading a virus you already have. Medical staff are trained not to touch their faces, etc., but if I go around with a mask and gloves, I am just collecting germs on them, which I will probably put in my own eyes.

    The second part about "knowing for sure" about some kind of evidence is something we should be very careful with; just because Joe Biden might have used military slang, does not mean he actually confessed it is an intentionally-released bio-weapon. The closest we can get here is that some Japanese and a few other doctors looked at American evidence and found no "patient zero" and instead, possible cases that went unidentified, in the early days of it supposedly only being in China. So the President and State Department trying to demand the whole world calls it a Chinese or Wuhan virus is pretty sketchy; possibly propaganda for its own sake, but also a way to put the U. S. out of the question.

    Why is it like this...American workers wanted good wages, so, we closed the shops and moved them to China and basically placed ourselves in a condition of utter dependence. Otherwise, nothing of Chinese origin could proliferate like this.

    A couple of days into curfew, we say we have 1,532 cases, 157 hospitalized, 10 deaths. So in only a few days since passing a thousand, that is 3 or 4 hundred new cases, compared to a total of not much more than a hundred, two weeks ago. I will be forced to watch how that goes for at least a month, compared to Sweden, which says nearly 3,500 cases and 105 deaths, and this is pretty fair, since we have almost exactly the same population.

    As far as I can tell, it is mostly an urban disease; out here in the rural areas, no one has it, and the shutdowns should perhaps have been a local decision not state. Yes, it is perhaps going to be a bit like "taking turns" to get your exposure for something that in the long run, no one can really avoid.

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    As far as I can tell, it is mostly an urban disease; out here in the rural areas, no one has it, and the shutdowns should perhaps have been a local decision not state. Yes, it is perhaps going to be a bit like "taking turns" to get your exposure for something that in the long run, no one can really avoid.
    Thank you Shaberon, this fits into my 5G + Pollution Causing Hypoxia + Viral Exosome Model in some already immuno-compromised people...
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 1st April 2020 at 09:42. Reason: fixed quote attribution

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Autumn has been on my ignore list for years for the endless shallow armchair pot shots on subjects she could not hold an in depth conversation about in the least - Waves.

    Note Waves, I have not insulted you or anyone else here, only Jon Rappaport. He is heroic in your eyes and it hurts or irritates to see someone you admire, smeared, but understand that I am not smearing you.

    Back to topic!

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    [QUOTE=Phoenix;1347505]
    Quote Posted by shaberon (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    As far as I can tell, it is mostly an urban disease; out here in the rural areas, no one has it, and the shutdowns should perhaps have been a local decision not state. Yes, it is perhaps going to be a bit like "taking turns" to get your exposure for something that in the long run, no one can really avoid.
    Thank you Shaberon, this fits into my 5G + Pollution Causing Hypoxia + Viral Exosome Model in some already immuno-compromised people...
    5

    It also fits germ theory. Those who live in rural areas do better than those living in cramped conditions close to sources of infection, in this case, other people. 5G may be dangerous and coronavirus is dangerous. The way people die though, doesn't have the earmarks of exposure to radiation. The effects of radiation would build up slowly over time and the afflicted would likely crawl into bed eventually, hack a bit, throw up and then slowly die with their friends and family crying by their side, "I wish I'd never bought that damn fridge that tells me when I'm out of cheese."

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    Default Re: COVID-19 Contrarians

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Terrible about ibuprophen. It is a horrible drug and nobody should take it. I'm not sure if it was this drug or another non steroidal anti-inflammatory drug where it was found the maker had fudged all the data on side effects, some of them dangerous, like yours. And yet....it is still on the market. Big pharma IS terrible, by and large. I completely agree with that sentiment. Sorry to hear you went through that. It must have been terrifying.
    No, I don't do terror. I had a much more sudden anaphylaxis when attacked by a nest of hornets, and it still did not "bother" me, it just happened. The pill was obnoxious, we would expect something to be considered an allergen, if it is a brand new molecule to one's body. I had no tolerance, since the previous time I had used any pharmaceutical, I cannot even remember. I suppose it was a similar prescription I received for a similar injury, the only time I used health insurance, until cancelling it somewhere around 2003. Before that, it was...a pharmaceutical product I took in...probably the 1970s when my parents were in control of me. That's my relationship to the pill mill. And the old stuff was probably liquid penicillin and amoxycillin, which are less questionable. Occasionally due to illness I have taken Ayurvedic and Homeopathic substances, but I doubt anyone is studying Gelsimium in relation to Coronavirus--which, from what I recall, is named for its shape, not electricity.

    As it turns out, if you unfold the massive pamphlet stuck to the side of the drug, in microscopic print near the end of page eight it does say it may cause anaphylaxis and death.

    I rarely feel better than when clean of Western medicine and the Western press, the whole thing is a mental disease with physical consequences. I am firmly in the view that the whole thing is a system of damnation from Aristotle. Nobody needs any of it, or I would not exist. All of our institutions are deadly and corrupt and the stream of humans it produces--at least around here, where it is pushed to the extreme--is quite disappointing. Most Canadians and Europeans do not have it this bad since there has always been acceptance of organics, homeopathy, etc., although the political and mind control problems are there, I can't imagine going to jail for questioning the Holocaust.

    As you can see, rejection of Rockefeller medicine is not any kind of internet trend, since it has always been rejected, by some. I think we trip over our own feet if we forget that the Fed, the medical system, and U. S. intercessional wars have been opposed since before they started.

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    Dr. Holiday, I'd be especially curious in your take on this step by step very technical explanation of what's actually going on inside the body in those with this 'unique' illness suddenly on the world stage - the cause of which is appearing to not even be a virus, and the issues surrounding the test presented by a Dr. Kaufman on Crow777's independent radio show, who has long been one of the few very grounded, discerning podcasters to me.

    In short for the rest of us, Dr. Kaufman explains why it's not something you catch from outside your body. Fevers and other flu like symptoms are from cells making/excreting exosomes (sic?) in response to poisons with numerous possible origins - NONE of which are what in the medical industry are considered 'viruses' floating in the air the political parasites are using as an excuse to overturn the entire interconnectedness of the world to their destructive changes over.

    It explains how many of the external issues people have proposed are playing part may be connected - triggering the cells to act, no 'catching' something else needed.

    This is a deep, difficult listen for a non medical person. You can skip to the summary near the very end, but it's really worth grasping these concepts.


    March 31, 2020
    207.5- YOU HAVE THE BALL, DON’T TAKE THE SHOT (FREE)

    https://www.crrow777radio.com/207-5-...the-shot-free/




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