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Thread: Would God really send people to hell....

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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    Quote Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, they all existed and had a great role for mankind.
    Except of course they had different names and come from a time far earlier than suggested by the bible...except Mohammed, the modern prophet, and some say the last. The bible is an abridged and compiled version of much earlier works of wisdom...except for the new testament and its first and mostly second hand accounts of Jesus of Nazareth.

    Notice the exceptions are the most recent additions to the west's wisdom traditions.
    Last edited by Ernie Nemeth; 3rd May 2020 at 09:50.

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    Russian Federation Avalon Member Sasha Alisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    Quote Posted by Iceberg (here)
    Quote Posted by Mashika (here)
    Quote Posted by Iceberg (here)
    It looks like contradiction in this saying but there is not: God is the most merciful, but also He is severe in punishment. He doesn't do wrong to anyone, but it is they who wrong themselves.
    That may seem only "true" for the people that live inside the "religious bubble", everyone else see it for what it is, pure nonesense

    Because, who told you that about God? That he acts like that and that's how he would react at all? It's a dumb assumption made by humans, in reality, no one knows if that's how God really is. This all came from the same source as any other dumb thing that has caused thousands of years of suffering for human kind, the need to impose a personality on God that always fits the views of the people in control or power of the "lower" crowds

    It's the same thing it has always been, pure manipulation of people's minds through fear and power figures that tell you what to think and do, or else.

    What we call today religion, it is a gathering of many pieces together to end up getting confused. It is belief in one God, origin of mankind, description of many events, holy scriptures (word of God).
    Now we get to the confusing part: many kind of rituals created by humans, fragmentations of scriptures to divide in many groups, to aim for power and control, strange objects of worship (when God has commanded to not make any image in the shape of anything), deception through mixing truth with lies, misusing of the word "God", for different agendas or personal interests.

    So this is what we call religion today, but you can't deny the history. Adam and Eve (the origin of mankind), also: Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, they all existed and had a great role for mankind.
    You are very certain about Adam and Eve, but you are using the same book that tells you about it as proof the book says the truth...

    Dont you see a problem?

    Adam and Eve were the first two, then had a couple kids. One went around and had his own kids, with who he did that?

    What you call "history" is simply a version of things that were written on that book "by humans"

    Using the book to prove the book is saying the truth doesnt make any sense...

    Also it is said Enoch, son of Cain (who had a child even tough there was no one on earth but him and his parents) had 77 children, isn't that odd?

    And yes i know about Awan, it seems ridiculous because it looks like someone patching the story so it makes sense

    Anyway do you like incest? because is the bible is absolute truth we are all born out of it and continue to "sin" day by day we have a partner in life, or kids Dont need to whack me in the head OK. got my fair share of that before LOL
    Last edited by Sasha Alisa; 3rd May 2020 at 10:12.
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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    There is a misunderstanding that God is only for mankind, He is God of everything that has been created (including aliens too). Earth was appointed to humans to inherit, that's why we don't see any other intelligent being in the open.

    And when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" God said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know." (2 :30)

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    literally "Only God is"
    Non duality is "One without a second"
    There is no place were God is not.
    There can not be a hell without God being present --thefore there is no hell
    If it can be accepted that God is omni present then the rest is just a story made up by mind.
    Investigate, investigate and as pointed out you cant confirm the authenticity of the Bible statements using the Bible.

    Ch
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    literally "Only God is"
    Non duality is "One without a second"
    There is no place were God is not.
    There can not be a hell without God being present --thefore there is no hell
    If it can be accepted that God is omni present then the rest is just a story made up by mind.
    Investigate, investigate and as pointed out you cant confirm the authenticity of the Bible statements using the Bible.

    Ch
    that's great and all, for those not in the illusion. A few years ago I had food poisoning and that was pretty much hell for 8 hours even though i know it is an illusion, how and why is the illusion so powerful. And i can think of much worse and longer tormenting experiences. I think the point is that Hell is associated with extreme ignorance and delusion - our current state or worse. So, that is the other side of the argument.

    I just wish somebody could tell me why. Why does intense suffering need to exist in the universe. Do you want to hear the good news or the bad news first - regarding the universe. Is liberation all roses or do we become aware of "the bad news" as well. The flaw or problem of the universe. Like we can't have this thrilling or ecstatic experiences without its opposite, or is that just an appearance/trap. Does the guy who just freed himself from 30 years of "hell" feel as good or better than a liberated/enlightened being?

    -------------------------------------------

    With regards to the Adam and Eve. Yea we didnt come from two people and the incest of their siblings. We descended in frequency, like a fluid dream slowing down and solidifying. Evolution is true from one point of view and false from another. I actually saw a reality solidify right in front of me. THe room i was in became background. IT was exactly like windows on our computer, but in 3D. I could shift my attention between the two realities. So, that reality didn't take billions of years to form matter lol. My chakras were super active especially my feet. I could then feel that gravity comes from the legs region. Feet and i think root chakra. When the reality started to form it was like i felt a big force swirling in and it started to take form and become more than a force/gravity. Colors came in at some point. I guess it literally was built from the ground up. lol I do deny his-story.
    Last edited by Merkaba360; 3rd May 2020 at 12:31.
    " Do you know that at this very moment you are surrounded by eternity? And do you know that you can use that eternity, if you so desire?
    There! Eternity is there! All around! Do you know that you can extend yourself forever in any of the directions I have pointed to? Do you know that one moment can be eternity? This is not a riddle; it's a fact, but only if you mount that moment and use it to take the totality of yourself forever in any direction."

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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    I am intrigued by your last statement: I guess it literally was built from the ground up. Based upon what little we know, which is not much and mostly wrong, it is impossible for two realities to super-impose. It even violates Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. But the way you describe it being built in front of your eyes from the ground up suggests you did the conjuring!



    If the reality we experience is intrinsic then it is external and suffering is real. If reality is a shared experience based on the perception of an external source by multiple observers then it is probably a secondary effect and most likely internal, thereby suffering becomes a misconception.

    We are not asked to understand this, in our present state we are incapable of it.

    'I fear that I will die, yet I know there is no death, only new adventures', might be one way of considering it. But when it is personal, it is all but impossible to maintain such an encompassing over-view. When it's personal, the world shrinks to a very small pin-prick of a bubble...

    In other words what world you are in that suffering is manifest depends on situational perspective.
    Last edited by Ernie Nemeth; 3rd May 2020 at 11:55.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    By coincidence, I think some answers are here Merkaba360 on the link.
    Much humour expressing spirituality as opposed to religion.
    Perhaps the difference is serving the Divine as opposed to expecting the Divine to give us what we want
    You can rise above painful experiences without being --enlightened.
    Chris

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1354416
    Last edited by greybeard; 3rd May 2020 at 12:06.
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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    I am intrigued by your last statement: I guess it literally was built from the ground up. Based upon what little we know, which is not much and mostly wrong, it is impossible for two realities to super-impose. It even violates Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. But the way you describe it being built in front of your eyes from the ground up suggests you did the conjuring!



    If the reality we experience is intrinsic then it is external and suffering is real. If reality is a shared experience based on the perception of an external source by multiple observers then it is probably a secondary effect and most likely internal, thereby suffering becomes a misconception.

    We are not asked to understand this, in our present state we are incapable of it.

    'I fear that I will die, yet I know there is no death, only new adventures', might be one way of considering it. But when it is personal, it is all but impossible to maintain such an encompassing over-view. When it's personal, the world shrinks to a very small pin-prick of a bubble...

    In other words what world you are in that suffering is manifest depends on situational perspective.
    Although, I've done some cool things on my own, I must admit I had some help from dear Lady Salvia for that experience. lol Although certain interpretations from those kind of experiences can be illusory -the energy intensity, the ability to see that normal perception is the illusion, the heightened senses and awareness means it isnt some hallucination. I mean, that plant is so powerful, it can do literally anything, and things beyond bizarre. It used to show me some new angle everytime. I think it was doing that to push me and help me get a better understanding.

    So, yea they can be superimposed to some degree. It did seem that i couldn't be totally immersed in either "world" while i was viewing the two. I guess the one you focus on comes to the forefront and once you fully immerse your attention into it then perhaps the other one then completely vanishes.

    Yea, i guess there are things to learn while the blinders and limits are on. And when we grow enough and practice enough , we can remove some of them and become more capable of those understandings.
    " Do you know that at this very moment you are surrounded by eternity? And do you know that you can use that eternity, if you so desire?
    There! Eternity is there! All around! Do you know that you can extend yourself forever in any of the directions I have pointed to? Do you know that one moment can be eternity? This is not a riddle; it's a fact, but only if you mount that moment and use it to take the totality of yourself forever in any direction."

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    Russian Federation Avalon Member Sasha Alisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    Quote Posted by Merkaba360 (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    literally "Only God is"
    Non duality is "One without a second"
    There is no place were God is not.
    There can not be a hell without God being present --thefore there is no hell
    If it can be accepted that God is omni present then the rest is just a story made up by mind.
    Investigate, investigate and as pointed out you cant confirm the authenticity of the Bible statements using the Bible.

    Ch
    that's great and all, for those not in the illusion. A few years ago I had food poisoning and that was pretty much hell for 8 hours even though i know it is an illusion, how and why is the illusion so powerful. And i can think of much worse and longer tormenting experiences. I think the point is that Hell is associated with extreme ignorance and delusion - our current state or worse. So, that is the other side of the argument.

    I just wish somebody could tell me why. Why does intense suffering need to exist in the universe. Do you want to hear the good news or the bad news first - regarding the universe. Is liberation all roses or do we become aware of "the bad news" as well. The flaw or problem of the universe. Like we can't have this thrilling or ecstatic experiences without its opposite, or is that just an appearance/trap. Does the guy who just freed himself from 30 years of "hell" feel as good or better than a liberated/enlightened being?

    -------------------------------------------

    With regards to the Adam and Eve. Yea we didnt come from two people and the incest of their siblings. We descended in frequency, like a fluid dream slowing down and solidifying. Evolution is true from one point of view and false from another. I actually saw a reality solidify right in front of me. THe room i was in became background. IT was exactly like windows on our computer, but in 3D. I could shift my attention between the two realities. So, that reality didn't take billions of years to form matter lol. My chakras were super active especially my feet. I could then feel that gravity comes from the legs region. Feet and i think root chakra. When the reality started to form it was like i felt a big force swirling in and it started to take form and become more than a force/gravity. Colors came in at some point. I guess it literally was built from the ground up. lol I do deny his-story.
    Just a small comment, frequencies have little to do with object or energy density in the way new-age people use it. I wish whoever made the wrong choice of using "Frequencies" to describe something in that new-age way would have invented their own word for the concept, instead of changing the meaning of a word that is meant to count something that happens in intervals, like 60 beats per second, or 120 beats per second.

    Frequency count is slower/faster and never high/down or light/heavy, liquid/solid. I dislike very much how the word has been misused so much that it turned into a "we raise to a higher frequency level", that means zero and it sounds ridiculous if you think about what the word Frequency really means

    /rant
    If life situation unclear, keep pressing your hand grip :P

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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    Through reading countless nde's and other research it's not God that sends anyone anywhere. It's the individual who decides for the most part. Someone in a divine alignment and or who's energy state is high enough will see the light callers, who can appear as many beings.

    An untimely death or a passing when someone is in a low state - they may not have the wherewithal to see the light callers and can end up in the lower astral aka purgatory and be an earthbound spirit. There they're subject to dark spirit harassment that can be relentless. Until a prayer is launched to have them rescued and brought HOME. We know where that is.

    Spirit rescue for the recently passed used to be customary in Catholicism I think it is
    "Without the human request, nothing will happen."

    "This must never be forgotten, that the human has the power to prevail."

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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    The way I sort of understand it is, we send our self there if at all.
    I'm a simple easy going guy that is very upset/sad with the worlds hidden controllers!
    We need LEADERS who bat from the HEART!
    Rise up above them Dark evil doers, not within anger but with LOVE

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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    On a lighter note....now in James Chapter 4 verse 17 states that if anyone knows the good they ought to do and don’t do it, it is a sin for them...my question is: if god isn’t feeding and saving the starving, witnessing all manor of crimes against humanity such as for example...ww1, ww2, ALL WARS THROUGH TIME for that fact where human life if wasted and lost does he know the good he ought to do? Because if he doesn’t then he isn’t all knowing and can’t be god .
    If he knows what he ought to do and doesn’t do it, then he/ she isn’t benevolent and is a sinner so he/she can’t be god...so, is there a god?"

    To deep a question or does it make you wonder...just a bit. ?

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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    God doesn't do, or not do, God simply is. There is an invaluable resource that exactly describes the meanings and forces that govern our reality, which come from the horse's mouth itself - our own higher selves. If there was a pair of books that everyone on earth should read, it would probably be Dr. Michael Newton's Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls. They answer very satisfactorily almost every question you've ever had on God, the soul, life after death, life before life, and everything in between. A great way to spend this lockdown!

    Click image for larger version

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    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    George W. Bush, when asked which historical figure he drew inspiration from, answered "Jesus Christ." Then he went on to lead his nation into fascist tyranny and wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's all you need to know about the bible.

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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    Swedenborg has a lot to say about hell. Here is an excerpt from Apocalypse Revealed:

    There are two heavens into which the entire heaven is divided, the celestial kingdom and the spiritual kingdom. The celestial kingdom consists of those who are in love to the Lord and thence in wisdom.; and the spiritual kingdom consists of those who are in love towards the neighbor, and thence in intelligence; and as love towards the neighbor is at this day called ‘charity’ and ‘intelligence’, ‘faith’, the latter kingdom consists of those who are in charity, and thence in faith. Now, because heaven is distinguished into two kingdoms, hell also is distinguished into two kingdoms that are opposite to them; into the diabolical kingdom and into the satanic kingdom. The diabolic kingdom consists of those who are in the love of dominion from love of self and thence in foolishness; for this love is opposite to celestial love, and its foolishness is opposite to celestial wisdom; but the satanic kingdom consists of those who are in the love of dominion from the pride of their own intelligence, and thence in insanity; for this love is oppsite to spiritual love, and its insanity is opposite to spiritual intelligence. By foolishness and insanity are meant foolishness and insanity in things celestial spiritual. Similar things are to be understood of the church on earth as are said of heaven for they make one.


    Swedenborg then goes on to relate these aspects of heaven and hell to matters concerning the apocalypse.

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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    From my own life experience. There is no hell. What we call hell does not exist. If there is a hell, it is here on earth. It is our laws that make people pay for doing evil.

    We can read, hear or see it almost every day. In the newspaper, on the radio or on TV. As an an example. The greatest terrorist of all time at his time. Carlos Ramirez. After years of searching, he was finally caught and put in prison in Paris.
    Isn't that the perfect example that everyone who commits evil is caught at some point. He comes to court and receives his sentence.

    It has nothing to do with God. One could of course quote from the Bible, but as has already been written, the Bible was not the first book / work to write such words.

    I agree with Mashika. Adam and Eve were certainly not the first people. That is impossible, it would be pure incest. It would not be possible because at some point the blood groups would no longer fit and humanity would become extinct. But this is a topic that everyone who thinks logically knows that it is not true.
    Iyakum
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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    Same old debate through ages, but in different form. In these modern times I have seen many that claim that God doesn't exist, or heaven and hell doesn't exist, are the first applauded, books are mainly promoted, nobel prices, movie awards. It's one main proof, who controls this world.
    God exists and has decreed for mankind free will and an ultimate test: to be aware of Him, to be grateful of what He has created, to ask forgiveness for our sins (because in this duality, no one is pure) and to worship only Him while unseen. That is the first and most important thing in this life. Living in this duality is almost a torture, if you are on the right path and are aware of the evil forces. Once you "see" there is no turning back, you keep walking the difficult path and fight until the last breath.
    Heaven and Hell exists but we have little knowledge about them. There are different situations in our lives that simulates the experience of both states, but we can't fully comprehend them.

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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    Depends which God you are referring to.....

    x

    M

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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    Yin yang.
    All must be experienced and will be.
    We are all mere fractals of the divine, of the one god, a shard of the ONE essence life itself. There is only ONE life force.

    Good,bad - Up,down - Black, white - Alive,dead.

    The one God new all but wanted/needed to experience ALL without knowing.
    God Cleaved itself into a myriad of individual piece's like a shattered diamond. Individual yet once part of a whole.
    God was "lonely" !
    Heaven and Hell are but constraints we impose on our understanding of his nature.
    God needs to Eat whilst understanding what it's like to be Eaten.

    Yin Yang

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    Default Re: Would God really send people to hell....

    I've been pondering this one myself. I asked myself, "If all is from Source/The All, then how is anything evil, e.g. would Goddess worship be evil and therefore punishable by sending one to hell?" I don't think so. I don't believe that any particular spiritual system's texts are the full truth but have some truth, they are, after all, written by men. Men/women have filters/biases, etc and therefore the same message will be construed differently by each individual, though we may find common ground. I don't know if there is heaven or hell but I suspect they are nothing like we think. Perhaps hell has infernal beings residing in it and they are quite at home there. In any case, I don't see why, if we don't believe an exact system of belief and don't live absolutely by the letter of the words of said system that we would be sent to hell, just for believing differently or having a different approach.

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