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Thread: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

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    Default Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    Dear Friends,

    This post is simply to start this new thread. Please see my detailed explanation here.

    As the title suggests, this thread is for anyone to discuss their views about their distrust of the reported statistics, or the cause of the sickness. This includes any speculation about the role of 5G, and other factors.

    There are three other new threads to discuss other specific angles and aspects of the current situation.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 3rd April 2020 at 20:05.

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    Modified from my Cui Bono post.

    I wanted to start out by saying that I haven't posted here in several years, primarily because I became frustrated with the (seemingly) large number of members who would lash out at not just myself, but at anyone who tried to bring critical thinking skills to bear on almost any topic. I am wading back in now because I felt the urge to see what the community was discussing and was alarmed to see topics discussing variously: Don't trust the numbers, don't trust motives, 5G makes it worse, it's not really serious, and a host of other things that could frankly get some of you killed.

    I don't trust the numbers either, but not simply because of the source (Here's looking at you China) but because of the way they are presented. I decided to look at the numbers in a different way and thought I would share in the event that this helps keep somebody safe. Almost every statistic you will see in some way derives ultimately from the numbers of people tested as a denominator and the number of hospitalizations or deaths as a numerator. This can be wildly misleading for a whole number of interrelated reasons that have been beat to death (pun intended) all over the media, both Alt and MSM.

    So how to think about this in another way? Firstly, I believe the numbers for the dead are reasonably accurate, we can quibble over whether or not an underlying condition was the ultimate cause or not, but the reality is that someone with asthma, diabetes, cancer, or some other morbidity wasn't statistically much more likely to die yesterday than in any other day this year. Numbers do rise in the winter and drop off in the summer...marginally.

    Secondly, the panic evident in the vast numbers of public officials that are dealing with this who could not possibility be part of the "plan" or what have you tells me that they genuinely believe this to be serious. I've got friends working in ER's. They sure as heck are taking it seriously. So with that out of the way, some numbers:

    On any given day in the US about 7,700 people die of all of the usual things (cancer, heart disease, violence, accidents, etc.)
    There are about 327 million Americans today
    There are 8.62 million people living in NYC
    This is about 2.6% of the US population
    This makes the normal number of deaths in NYC about 203 on any given day
    On March 31st, there were 180 deaths in NYC from Covid.

    Let's draw some conclusions. On the bare surface of it Covid almost doubled the daily death rate. That's bad, but wait, some of those folks would have died anyway (see above about underlying conditions). And then there are still people who would have died from other causes anyway. Let's assume that there were fewer traffic and industrial accidents. My point is that there is so much chaos right now that it's going to be years before historians come to some sort of consensus about all of this and what the real numbers are, but the takeaway is that THERE IS A STATISTICALLY HUGE bump in the death rate and it's most likely not even peaked yet. A 2X increase in daily deaths is likely to persist for at least a month in even the most favorable scenarios.

    Stay safe out there, and focus your intentions and actions where you can make a positive impact, most especially on the people around you...errrr... 6 feet away from you.
    Just because I took the red pill, it doesn't mean that I washed it down with the koolaid

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    @TargeT what you posted in the former Covid 19 topic about 5G is not true at all. 5G is being downplayed as being nothing serious but there are many many scientists and other experts who think otherwise. For one 5G has weaponised frequencies and can be put to use as crowd control targeting peoples nervous system.

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    Quote Posted by Lazlo (here)
    Modified from my Cui Bono post.

    I wanted to start out by saying that I haven't posted here in several years, primarily because I became frustrated with the (seemingly) large number of members who would lash out at not just myself, but at anyone who tried to bring critical thinking skills to bear on almost any topic. I am wading back in now because I felt the urge to see what the community was discussing and was alarmed to see topics discussing variously: Don't trust the numbers, don't trust motives, 5G makes it worse, it's not really serious, and a host of other things that could frankly get some of you killed.

    I don't trust the numbers either, but not simply because of the source (Here's looking at you China) but because of the way they are presented. I decided to look at the numbers in a different way and thought I would share in the event that this helps keep somebody safe. Almost every statistic you will see in some way derives ultimately from the numbers of people tested as a denominator and the number of hospitalizations or deaths as a numerator. This can be wildly misleading for a whole number of interrelated reasons that have been beat to death (pun intended) all over the media, both Alt and MSM.

    So how to think about this in another way? Firstly, I believe the numbers for the dead are reasonably accurate, we can quibble over whether or not an underlying condition was the ultimate cause or not, but the reality is that someone with asthma, diabetes, cancer, or some other morbidity wasn't statistically much more likely to die yesterday than in any other day this year. Numbers do rise in the winter and drop off in the summer...marginally.

    Secondly, the panic evident in the vast numbers of public officials that are dealing with this who could not possibility be part of the "plan" or what have you tells me that they genuinely believe this to be serious. I've got friends working in ER's. They sure as heck are taking it seriously. So with that out of the way, some numbers:

    On any given day in the US about 7,700 people die of all of the usual things (cancer, heart disease, violence, accidents, etc.)
    There are about 327 million Americans today
    There are 8.62 million people living in NYC
    This is about 2.6% of the US population
    This makes the normal number of deaths in NYC about 203 on any given day
    On March 31st, there were 180 deaths in NYC from Covid.

    Let's draw some conclusions. On the bare surface of it Covid almost doubled the daily death rate. That's bad, but wait, some of those folks would have died anyway (see above about underlying conditions). And then there are still people who would have died from other causes anyway. Let's assume that there were fewer traffic and industrial accidents. My point is that there is so much chaos right now that it's going to be years before historians come to some sort of consensus about all of this and what the real numbers are, but the takeaway is that THERE IS A STATISTICALLY HUGE bump in the death rate and it's most likely not even peaked yet. A 2X increase in daily deaths is likely to persist for at least a month in even the most favorable scenarios.

    Stay safe out there, and focus your intentions and actions where you can make a positive impact, most especially on the people around you...errrr... 6 feet away from you.
    The numbers of people who died in the last weeks are here still under the numbers of people who died the years before. Further more of the people who end up on IC 90 percent are overweight. Of the people who died of this the most are pretty old and riddled with other diseases. Thats are the facts i know.

    Also im pretty sure there is some other factor into play here. Be it vaccins (like in the hotspot in Italy they had huge mandatory vaccin campaigns the months before the outbreak or the 5G aspect like in Wuhan. Its really targeted on specific places. Why has it not reached other cities in China? Why almost no deaths in Russia? Or Africa?

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    The purported reason for the lockdowns and draconian measures are based on causes of death on death certificates, would we agree? The WHO and CDC are now the go-to entities on the matter would we agree? See this link from the CDC and please share it as far and wide as possible. Page two last paragraph on left they give guidance on how to denote cause of death on certificates and state NO TEST RESULTS ARE NECESSARY to denote Covid 19 as cause. So the stats that shut the world down , destroyed businesses and harmed lives..are not accurate
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    Mypos,

    Many people are wary of 5G and vaccines. But there is no well researched evidence that has been carefully vetted ( Jon Rappoport is not a credible source) that will work as solid evidence that they have anything to do with corona virus. Conflating this virus with 5G and vaccines is a mere distraction.

    Don't let your own rightful suspicion of 5G and vaccines be used by crackpots trying to leverage it to make money on YouTube. One physical virus is bad enough. YouTube scammers and fantasy prone individuals have created several more mind viruses.

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    Quote Posted by graciousb (here)
    The purported reason for the lockdowns and draconian measures are based on causes of death on death certificates, would we agree? The WHO and CDC are now the go-to entities on the matter would we agree? See this link from the CDC and please share it as far and wide as possible. Page two last paragraph on left they give guidance on how to denote cause of death on certificates and state NO TEST RESULTS ARE NECESSARY to denote Covid 19 as cause. So the stats that shut the world down , destroyed businesses and harmed lives..are not accurate
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf
    Clinical observation has to do until enough test kits are available. Doctors in emergency care have seen enough typical flu, pneumonia, to be able to assess what they are dealing with. This is a red herring argument.

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    The numbers of people who died in the last weeks are here still under the numbers of people who died the years before. Further more of the people who end up on IC 90 percent are overweight. Of the people who died of this the most are pretty old and riddled with other diseases. Thats are the facts i know.
    There is evidence of that, also that trivalent flu shot can cause false positives for Covid. A friend who very likely had it, mid 70s, overall healthy but blood type A and on BP meds, she gets flu shots religiously. She was quite sick for many weeks. She was refused a test.
    Last edited by Billy; 4th April 2020 at 08:33. Reason: Post quote

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    Quote Posted by Lazlo (here)
    On any given day in the US about 7,700 people die of all of the usual things (cancer, heart disease, violence, accidents, etc.)
    There are about 327 million Americans today
    There are 8.62 million people living in NYC
    This is about 2.6% of the US population
    This makes the normal number of deaths in NYC about 203 on any given day
    On March 31st, there were 180 deaths in NYC from Covid.

    Let's draw some conclusions. On the bare surface of it Covid almost doubled the daily death rate.
    Not disagreeing, Lazlo, but we cannot be sure of the conclusion that the death rate was doubled, as we have not seen the total death count for March 31. Wonder if it was actually around 383 - (203+180)? The average total daily counts, compared to the new daily total counts may be more accurate for trending comparisons. Wish we could find those stats.
    "We're all bozos on this bus"

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    With all due respect no it isn't. Everything hinges on accurate reporting. How can doctors be able to accurately assess a virus that is ''novel'', ie never seen before? This is referring to patients with other illnesses concurrently.

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    Gracious,

    Youre correct that this is hitting the elderly and those with co-morbid conditions, disproportionately. But consider how many people in the developed world, particularly the U.S. are overweight, many of whom are morbidly obese. Add to that risk factor, diabetes that usually goes hand in hand. Again you are right that in this population the virus might just be the straw that breaks the camel's back--and that the infection, in that respect is opportunistic.

    But rather than be a source of solace, the fact is that without a vaccine, the co-morbid fatality rate could hit a good 10% of the population. It's not so much what the numbers are now, it's what they will be at the peak and whether hospitals are ready to take care of what might be a flood of the infected.

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    I'd like to offer this, if I may:

    It seems to me very probable — but I do not know this as a fact — that an honest doctor, not wanting or being ordered to cover anything up, when signing a death certificate, would ask themselves:
    "Would this patient have died right now had they not contracted Covid-19?"
    And if the answer's No, then that becomes the cause.

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Of the people who died of this the most are pretty old and riddled with other diseases. Thats are the facts i know.
    Well, maybe not. I posted this earlier today:

    ~~~
    This is interesting. Either the virus is changing, or people are.

    (Meaning, 'younger' people may be over-confident about being 'immune', and aren't taking nearly enough care not to become infected. And many 'younger' people have poor diets, poor lifestyles, and compromised immune systems, too.)

    ~~~
    North Carolina says 43% of people diagnosed with Covid-19 are ages 25-49

    Dr. Mandy K. Cohen, secretary of the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services (NCDHHS), announced Friday that 43% of people diagnosed with Covid-19 are ages 25-49. So far, 29% are age 50-64 and 20% are age 65 and up, Cohen said.

    Quote Posted by Mypos (here)
    Why has it not reached other cities in China? Why almost no deaths in Russia? Or Africa?
    I totally agree about other areas of China. There almost certainly have to be Italy- and Spain-sized outbreaks in remote areas that aren't being reported.

    Re numbers in Russia and Africa — wait a few weeks. (If Russia is reporting honestly.)

    All the graphs do this, in all countries (and states, and cities)... it's just a matter of time.


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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    Covid-19 False Flag Event in the Making
    This video is amazing!
    It seems to be a sign that we are catching on to false flag events even as they are being constructed.
    It's already been featured in other posts, but deserves bumping, imho.

    Real World or Simulation? 4/2/20
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo
    Each breath a gift...
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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    Quote Posted by graciousb (here)
    The purported reason for the lockdowns and draconian measures are based on causes of death on death certificates, would we agree? The WHO and CDC are now the go-to entities on the matter would we agree? See this link from the CDC and please share it as far and wide as possible. Page two last paragraph on left they give guidance on how to denote cause of death on certificates and state NO TEST RESULTS ARE NECESSARY to denote Covid 19 as cause. So the stats that shut the world down , destroyed businesses and harmed lives..are not accurate
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf
    I read the paragraph graciuosb refers to a bit differently.

    I read it to say that where there has been a test for SARS Covid-2 and that test is positive, then the death certificate can, and perhaps should, state the cause of death as Covid-19. (SARS Cov-2). But, where there has not been a positive test for SARS Cov-2, because no test was given for whatever reason, then under the totality of the circumstances and taking into account the decedent’s co-morbidities, the death certificate may state the probable cause of death was Covid-19, if that can be stated to a reasonable degree of medical certainty: which is very subjective opinion, upon which reasonable medical minds can differ.

    It seems to me, then, that if a test was given and it is negative, the cause of death cannot and should not be stated as Covid19.

    So, if I was drilling down on this, I’d want to see how many deaths were labeled Covid19 when there was a negative test or when no test was given. From that you can begin to determine the extent, if any, to which deaths have been labeled Covid19 when they were not

    If the tests were negative, the person died from something else. And any claim it was Covid19 would be false.

    If no test was given, but the death was labeled unequivocally as “Covid19 disease” and not “probable Covid19 disease” or something similar, then you have reason to question the accuracy of the finding of “Covid19 disease.” Those death certificates, at least, would identify the cases that would deserve further scrutiny to determine if the cause of death was the virus, or one or more co-morbidities.

    So, to my way of thinking, these document graciousb provided is very helpful to use to show the protocol that is required to be followed and to determine whether the standard and required protocols were in fact followed when stating the cause of death.
    Last edited by Satori; 4th April 2020 at 01:27.

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Covid-19 False Flag Event in the Making
    This video is amazing!
    It seems to be a sign that we are catching on to false flag events even as they are being constructed.
    It's already been featured in other posts, but deserves bumping, imho.

    Real World or Simulation? 4/2/20
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    "I don't believe the news from Elmhurst hospital. Let me show you why not, and why it is IMPERATIVE that we ask questions and bring the answers out. We are literally fighting for our lives right now..."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

    Is it just me, or is everything in mirror image in this video? Look at the writing on various objects.

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    Quote Posted by Ben Macdonald (here)
    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    Covid-19 False Flag Event in the Making
    This video is amazing!
    It seems to be a sign that we are catching on to false flag events even as they are being constructed.
    It's already been featured in other posts, but deserves bumping, imho.

    Real World or Simulation? 4/2/20
    Amazing Polly
    232K subscribers

    "I don't believe the news from Elmhurst hospital. Let me show you why not, and why it is IMPERATIVE that we ask questions and bring the answers out. We are literally fighting for our lives right now..."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

    Is it just me, or is everything in mirror image in this video? Look at the writing on various objects.
    It is indeed a mirror image. I noticed that too and held my tablet to a mirror. “Johnny Horton” and “George” are prominent.

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    ............
    Last edited by Joe; 10th April 2020 at 14:24.

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    .............
    Last edited by Joe; 10th April 2020 at 14:24.

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    Default Re: Covid19: Don't trust the statistics (or the science re the tests/the cause of the sickness)

    Biill you invited comments about the title wording.

    I think the title wording contradicts itself. I don't trust the statistics... because I've learned the actual mainstream science of PCR tests, exosomes and the true nature of the particles called virus.

    What's being misrepresented to sell this psyop with statistics is certainly a lot of plain old made up numbers, but they all repeat and repeat that they're of 'the tested'... but there's not a valid test!!! That's why I created the signature below - it's the foundational issue being used to dupe people and ruin so many lives - there is still no test that isolates the cv19 they claim exists from the other cv's that everyone has, and that is the reason all the statistics are entirely false.

    You can find numerous step by step explanations of exactly the medical establishment science for the factual nature of virus/PCR tests/exosomes that are undisputed.

    So I'd rewrite it something like "Covid19: Don't trust the statistics because the actual science about the nature of virus and a valid test have been obfuscated"

    I'd add however, just because I now know the statistics are lies, does not mean I don't think there are other bioweaponry related illness creating targeting going on. So the bioweaponry/exosome issue goes hand in hand with exposing the 'test' statistics lie and the bioweaponry issue would be inseparable in a 'new contrarian' thread.

    So it's not that people exposing the lie of 'the test' are saying there's no illness, we're saying it's 'others', none of which are contagious. And the totally out of control selling of 'contagiousness' is what is being used against humanity the most destructively right now.



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