Lockdown vs Non-lockdown: A statistical perspective

[greybeard]

Tony Robbins interviews Dr. Michael Levitt, Nobel Laureate and Stanford Professor, about his extensive analysis of COVID-19 mortality rates – which have shown strict lockdowns to be an overreaction that have caused more harm than good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEbcs37aaI0


This interview is part of the “Facts From the Frontlines” episode of #TheTonyRobbinsPodcast, where Tony uncovers the truth about coronavirus with a 7-person panel of highly qualified researchers, an experienced epidemiologist, a Nobel Laureate, and M.D.s testing and treating patients on the frontlines. Together, they reveal the evidence-based research that has come to light in the last two months.

This is one of the most important interviews Tony has ever conducted. It reminds us to stand guard at the door of our mind, practice discernment when determining trustworthy sources, and think critically in order to stay flexible and maintain the ability to pivot in light of new information – especially when lives depend on it.

To hear the full interview, go here: https://www.tonyrobbins.com/podcasts/...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=sEbcs37aaI0

[Eric J (Viking)]

Excellent thread with very useful Stats...

Thank you Luke and others contributions...

Viking

[Eric J (Viking)]

Some of the report key passages are:

- The dangerousness of Covid-19 was overestimated: probably at no point did the danger posed by the new virus go beyond the normal level.

- The people who die from Corona are essentially those who would statistically die this year, because they have reached the end of their lives and their weakened bodies can no longer cope with any random everyday stress (including the approximately 150 viruses currently in circulation).

- Worldwide, within a quarter of a year, there has been no more than 250,000 deaths from Covid-19, compared to 1.5 million deaths [25,100 in Germany] during the influenza wave 2017/18.

- The danger is obviously no greater than that of many other viruses. There is no evidence that this was more than a false alarm.

- A reproach could go along these lines: During the Corona crisis the State has proved itself as one of the biggest producers of Fake News.

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives...l-false-alarm/

Viking

[AutumnW]

This is kind of a useless thread, at the current time, in that, no one knows what the mortality rate would be without lockdowns. Nobody -- including "expert," Tony Robbins. We might have a better take on that when the second wave hits. If we are lucky, the second wave will have evolved to a milder strain and mortality rates will be very low. Great! That is the typical progression of endemic viral illness. It wants to infect the host but not kill it. That would limit its spread.

In that case, lockdowns may have bought us time we needed for the virus to evolve. Who knows?

[Luke Holiday]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
This is kind of a useless thread, at the current time, in that, no one knows what the mortality rate would be without lockdowns. Nobody -- including "expert," Tony Robbins. We might have a better take on that when the second wave hits. If we are lucky, the second wave will have evolved to a milder strain and mortality rates will be very low. Great! That is the typical progression of endemic viral illness. It wants to infect the host but not kill it. That would limit its spread.

In that case, lockdowns may have bought us time we needed for the virus to evolve. Who knows?

hmmm. Mr. Hide.

Please note my sincere gratitude for your input

It is an honor to have you drop by and draw your sword of contrianism, however: the truth shall always remain impregnable

The painstaking research was done, compiled and displayed in order to undeniably prove the agenda driven uselessness of the CV lockdowns. I also wanted this thread to serve as a database that might ensure such gross abuse of power is not repeated - should a "real" second wave occur.


Blessings


luke

[greybeard]

Karl Friston: up to 80% not even susceptible to Covid-19

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=dUOFeVIrOPg

[Gwin Ru]

Still not a fan of lockdowns: Sweden’s state epidemiologist says media manufactured his alleged U-turn on Covid-19 measures

RT
8 Jun, 2020 07:40
Get short URL

State epidemiologist Anders Tegnell of the Public Health Agency of Sweden © Reuters / TT News Agency/Andres Wiklund

Anders Tegnell has pushed back against media reports suggesting that he regrets not putting Sweden under lockdown, noting that his comments about his country’s Covid-19 response have been badly mischaracterized.

Sweden’s state epidemiologists said in a recent interview that the best response to coronavirus would be “something between what Sweden has done and what the rest of the world has done.”

Sweden is among a handful of countries which chose against imposing strict and often draconian measures to stop the spread of Covid-19. Numerous media outlets presented his comments as a capitulation to lockdown policies – a claim he firmly denies.

“That interview was unfortunately very wrongly put together and very wrongly advertised,” he clarified after his much-publicized talk on Swedish Radio. Tegnell pointed out that, with hindsight, it will be clear that there are things which Sweden did right, and there will also be measures that other nations adopted that will be proven to have been effective.

The state epidemiologist insists that there is still no “obvious” benefits to closing businesses, restaurants and other venues in an effort to fend off the virus.

“There are no activities that we can point to as extremely vulnerable,” he told Sweden’s Dagens Nyheter, adding that the country's

“fundamental strategy has worked well.”

Tegnell has acknowledged that Sweden should have done more to properly protect care homes from the virus – a failure that has accounted for a large percentage of the country’s Covid-19 deaths. The blunder is not unique to Sweden, however. It’s believed that 40 percent of coronavirus-related deaths in the United States have occurred in nursing homes. In England, care home residents are projected to make up 57 percent of all deaths by the end of June.

Sweden’s decision to keep most businesses and institutions open has been repeatedly slammed as careless and dangerous. The Scandinavian country indeed recorded the highest reported per capita death rate in the world due to the virus in the week ending May 29. However, Sweden’s deaths per million is still lower or not significantly different from many European countries that chose to impose strict measures.

A top UK adviser who advocated for the country’s lockdown policies has conceded that Sweden has not suffered more from the health crisis than countries which shut down their economies.

In neighboring Norway, Camilla Stoltenberg, director of the country’s public health agency, has publicly stated that her country could have “probably achieved the same effect – and avoid part of the unfortunate repercussions – by not closing.”

Related:

• 'Professor Lockdown' Ferguson, UK's Covid-19 czar, admits crippling restrictions MADE NO DIFFERENCE – where’s the outrage?

• Is public opinion on Covid-19 being shaped by facts – or ‘terrorized’ by propaganda?

[spade]

Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
Tegnell has acknowledged that Sweden should have done more to properly protect care homes from the virus – a failure that has accounted for a large percentage of the country’s Covid-19 deaths. The blunder is not unique to Sweden, however. It’s believed that 40 percent of coronavirus-related deaths in the United States have occurred in nursing homes. In England, care home residents are projected to make up 57 percent of all deaths by the end of June.

That is it right there. The elite's goals - just know this :

• 1) The elite are taking HCQ + Zinc, but ain't letting you have it.
• 2) The developing countries can't be stuffed with the elites, and are taking HCQ + Zinc and doing very well on it.
• 3) The health authorities / medicial industrial complex are are at war with certain governors or presidents who refuse to comply in certain countries as they are all being told step-by-step instructions from Operation Lockstep by Rockefeller, through the B&M G foundation and their myriad subsidiaries, with their tentacles embedded in every possible health authority. Even issuing orders to send COVID into nursing and care homes.
• 4) Some health authorities have bungled the order to report false data, such as false number of deaths (always way higher than normal), and reported the true number instead like NZ, Singapore, and various other "honest" health, in probably some sort of negotiated agreement that they will enact operation lockstep to the tee, and are placed as a model nation for others to follow.
• 5) Sweden is an outlier, as in the 1st country to already willing enact mass chipping, thus given the green light to a no lockdown scenario.

Of course, there are many other ways to treat the virus... but they want to protract this out as long as possible for the slave maker vax.

[Luke Holiday]

Posted by spade (here)

Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
Tegnell has acknowledged that Sweden should have done more to properly protect care homes from the virus – a failure that has accounted for a large percentage of the country’s Covid-19 deaths. The blunder is not unique to Sweden, however. It’s believed that 40 percent of coronavirus-related deaths in the United States have occurred in nursing homes. In England, care home residents are projected to make up 57 percent of all deaths by the end of June.

That is it right there. The elite's goals - just know this :

• 1) The elite are taking HCQ + Zinc, but ain't letting you have it.
• 2) The developing countries can't be stuffed with the elites, and are taking HCQ + Zinc and doing very well on it.
• 3) The health authorities / medicial industrial complex are are at war with certain governors or presidents who refuse to comply in certain countries as they are all being told step-by-step instructions from Operation Lockstep by Rockefeller, through the B&M G foundation and their myriad subsidiaries, with their tentacles embedded in every possible health authority. Even issuing orders to send COVID into nursing and care homes.
• 4) Some health authorities have bungled the order to report false data, such as false number of deaths (always way higher than normal), and reported the true number instead like NZ, Singapore, and various other "honest" health, in probably some sort of negotiated agreement that they will enact operation lockstep to the tee, and are placed as a model nation for others to follow.
• 5) Sweden is an outlier, as in the 1st country to already willing enact mass chipping, thus given the green light to a no lockdown scenario.

Of course, there are many other ways to treat the virus... but they want to protract this out as long as possible for the slave maker vax.

Hello Spade

Great post - I would like to present the argument to colleagues. Do have a reference for the HCQ being used in developing countries

Blessings Luke

[spade]

there are 2 twitter feeds that tracks this very topic -

https://twitter.com/niro60487270

https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher

[AutumnW]

The lockdowns appeared to have saved many many lives, maybe millions. It took guts to initiate it, but was for the greater good. Remains to be seen if it was completely effective though. Time will tell.

[AutumnW]

Posted by Luke Holiday (here)
https://www.newsweek.com/japan-ends-...ckdown-1506336

Japan is also a country without 5 g, although it appears 5 G will fully operation very soon - so now we will see....

https://venturebeat.com/2020/03/23/j...cs-face-delay/


Blessings Luke

Japan has 5G

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20.../#.Xt8Oz_JlDR0

[DaveToo]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
This is kind of a useless thread, at the current time, in that, no one knows what the mortality rate would be without lockdowns. Nobody -- including "expert," Tony Robbins. We might have a better take on that when the second wave hits. If we are lucky, the second wave will have evolved to a milder strain and mortality rates will be very low. Great! That is the typical progression of endemic viral illness. It wants to infect the host but not kill it. That would limit its spread.

In that case, lockdowns may have bought us time we needed for the virus to evolve. Who knows?

On the contrary.
I said it before and I'll say it again, God bless the countries that didn't lock down and the U.S. states as well!
For without them, we would never know what would have happened without the lock downs.

They didn't lock down. And we can see the results.
On the whole they are NO WORSE than the locked down countries!!!
And many fared much better.

So they were able to keep their economies going, keep their citizens sane and healthy!
The lock downs did MUCH MUCH more harm to the world than would have occurred without them.

Please Autumn take a good hard look at the numbers. They are out there for curious people like you to study.
Please don't neglect them, and just come here and spout off what you feel.

Oh and while we are at it. Since the number of deaths from Covid-19 are no worse than those for the seasonal flu,
why haven't governments worldwide locked down their countries each year when the seasonal flu pandemic starts?

[AutumnW]

I have looked at the numbers and those areas who instituted lockdown early and masked up
have fared better.

[greybeard]

What planet are they on --statistics --oh yeah!!

Coronavirus lockdown 'prevented 470,000 deaths' amid fresh warnings of second wave
James MorrisSenior news reporter, Yahoo News UK

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronaviru...174750171.html

Boris Johnson’s coronavirus lockdown prevented almost half a million deaths, according to researchers.

Imperial College London scientists predicted that if the government hadn’t imposed the lockdown on 23 March, 500,000 deaths would have happened by 4 May.

It means, according to their forecasts, just over 470,000 deaths were averted. The death toll stood at 28,374 on 4 May.

However, the new figures come after a top government scientific adviser said more lives would have been saved if the UK had gone into lockdown sooner.


Prof John Edmunds said the delay “cost a lot of lives”.

Other European countries, such as France and Spain, went into lockdown earlier in March. The UK currently has the second highest coronavirus death toll in the world.

Meanwhile, with the UK lockdown in the process of being eased, the Imperial College researchers – who studied the lockdowns of 11 European counties – warned the risk of a second wave is “very real” if all measures are abandoned.

No COVID-19 vaccine currently exists, with the government having previously warned one may never be found.


Speaking on a telephone briefing on Monday, study author Dr Seth Flaxman, from Imperial College, said: “We’re just at the beginning of the epidemic.

“We’re very far from herd immunity, with only between 3% and 4% of the population infected.

“The risk of a second wave happening, if all intervention and all precautions are abandoned, is very real.

“We would all love to be able to go back to normal life pre-pandemic, with children back at school, being able to see loved ones whenever we want – but our results suggest that precautions remain necessary.”
Read more: Hancock says it's a 'mistake' to attend protests that could spread coronavirus

Prof Edmunds, who attends meetings of the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE), had told BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show on Sunday: “We should have gone into lockdown earlier.

“I think it would have been hard to do it, I think the data that we were dealing with in the early part of March and our kind of situational awareness was really quite poor.

“And so I think it would have been very hard to pull the trigger at that point but I wish we had – I wish we had gone into lockdown earlier. I think that has cost a lot of lives unfortunately.”

Health secretary Matt Hancock insisted the government made the “right decisions at the right time” with the lockdown.

[AutumnW]

Posted by DaveToo (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
This is kind of a useless thread, at the current time, in that, no one knows what the mortality rate would be without lockdowns. Nobody -- including "expert," Tony Robbins. We might have a better take on that when the second wave hits. If we are lucky, the second wave will have evolved to a milder strain and mortality rates will be very low. Great! That is the typical progression of endemic viral illness. It wants to infect the host but not kill it. That would limit its spread.

In that case, lockdowns may have bought us time we needed for the virus to evolve. Who knows?

On the contrary.
I said it before and I'll say it again, God bless the countries that didn't lock down and the U.S. states as well!
For without them, we would never know what would have happened without the lock downs.

They didn't lock down. And we can see the results.
On the whole they are NO WORSE than the locked down countries!!!
And many fared much better.

So they were able to keep their economies going, keep their citizens sane and healthy!
The lock downs did MUCH MUCH more harm to the world than would have occurred without them.

Please Autumn take a good hard look at the numbers. They are out there for curious people like you to study.
Please don't neglect them, and just come here and spout off what you feel.

Oh and while we are at it. Since the number of deaths from Covid-19 are no worse than those for the seasonal flu,
why haven't governments worldwide locked down their countries each year when the seasonal flu pandemic starts?

I don't agree with you and this is not the flu. I am not consulting stats from those who may have a conflict of interest. As far as being exact about what may or may not have happened the best statistics are extrapolating from figures compiled before lockdown. And those are likely on the low side as China may not have been honest.

The data isn't all in. Time alone will tell a more exact story.

As far as spouting stuff based on my feelings? If that was the case I would be in complete agreement as my feelings want to believe you are correct, all evidence to the contrary.

[greybeard]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
I have looked at the numbers and those areas who instituted lockdown early and masked up
have fared better.

Yes but which numbers are you looking at AutumW?

Many Dr's and Scientists are saying the figures are loaded to justify lockdown.
They protest that they are not being listened to as the media ploughs on with every dramatic picture and story they can find.
Its true that care of The Elderly was screwed up, in order to create hospital ward space they put old people into homes who frankly should have been kept in hospital due to the severity of their conditions -- thats why they were in hospital.
My ex wife a nurse tells me wards are empty of people needing cancer and heart surgery to name but two causes of death.

People in prisons had a low mortality rate as the average age was much less..

I had a residential home for the elderly for ten years and quite a few residents would die each year due to seasonal flu.
At least their relatives were allowed to be with them and give them a decent funeral--which I and staff attended -- we grew fond of them.

So look at the sensationalism of the press a fine example I posted above.

Go by your feelings Autumn W or investigate deeper to see what frontline Drs are saying and real experts in immunology, vaccines, and this virus.
Lockdown is not normal -- never before have we done this to fit health people who if they caught this the symptoms were minor, at worst it lasted fourteen days.
The suicide rate is going up at a rate never seen since the great depression -- the so called cure is killing more than the disease.

Best wishes
Chris

[greybeard]

CENSORED DOC DOUBLES DOWN

Dr. Daniel Erickson, owner of seven CA urgent care facilities, was thrown into the spotlight after his press conference on the COVID 19 stirred up enough controversy to get censored by YouTube. Here’s Del’s follow-up interview and this doc’s message is clear: he is not backing down. #CensoredDocs

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MK0shLq9x6c

[Luke Holiday]

Posted by AutumnW (here)

Posted by DaveToo (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
This is kind of a useless thread, at the current time, in that, no one knows what the mortality rate would be without lockdowns. Nobody -- including "expert," Tony Robbins. We might have a better take on that when the second wave hits. If we are lucky, the second wave will have evolved to a milder strain and mortality rates will be very low. Great! That is the typical progression of endemic viral illness. It wants to infect the host but not kill it. That would limit its spread.

In that case, lockdowns may have bought us time we needed for the virus to evolve. Who knows?

On the contrary.
I said it before and I'll say it again, God bless the countries that didn't lock down and the U.S. states as well!
For without them, we would never know what would have happened without the lock downs.

They didn't lock down. And we can see the results.
On the whole they are NO WORSE than the locked down countries!!!
And many fared much better.

So they were able to keep their economies going, keep their citizens sane and healthy!
The lock downs did MUCH MUCH more harm to the world than would have occurred without them.

Please Autumn take a good hard look at the numbers. They are out there for curious people like you to study.
Please don't neglect them, and just come here and spout off what you feel.

Oh and while we are at it. Since the number of deaths from Covid-19 are no worse than those for the seasonal flu,
why haven't governments worldwide locked down their countries each year when the seasonal flu pandemic starts?

I don't agree with you and this is not the flu. I am not consulting stats from those who may have a conflict of interest. As far as being exact about what may or may not have happened the best statistics are extrapolating from figures compiled before lockdown. And those are likely on the low side as China may not have been honest.

The data isn't all in. Time alone will tell a more exact story.

As far as spouting stuff based on my feelings? If that was the case I would be in complete agreement as my feelings want to believe you are correct, all evidence to the contrary.

Mr Hyde,

Perhaps the spouting off comment is related to you, incitefully calling this thread useless- thus disrespecting all those who have participated, some very diligently, in it's construction. Please be more careful in your posts.

What statistics are you referring to: strong contrarian claims demand equally strong proof in order to be considered here. (By not showing them - you appear to be just spouting off)

Thank you for reminding us of Japan now having 5 G. Future reports related to death rates, chronic illness, CV, will follow on a monthly basis. Perhaps you would like to volunteer in compiling the statistics?

Blessings Luke

[AutumnW]

This is kind of a useless thread, at the current time. True. It is, for all of the reasons stated. Plus, all of the statistics can be massaged by scientists with a conflict of interest to get the results to support their point of view.

Scientists, operating in a more objective zone, can also be wrong for different reasons. But, for now, I have to put my money on those who aren't trying to build a youtube following, for financial purposes, like Dr. Buttar, I suspect.

It is premature to delve too deeply into the pros and cons of a lockdown. Give it a few months. See if the virus mutates to a stronger or weaker strain, for starters.

As far as the spouting off remark goes, it doesn't bother me, Mr. Holiday. When a thread is titled Lockdown versus Non-Lockdown, it should automatically follow that you aren't going to get uniformity of opinion. Maybe change the title, if you are looking for those walking in lock step.

As far as watching how I post, I do. I am just not in agreement with you, so you find my posts highly irritating, as do others who can't handle an honest difference of opinion.

Blessings,

Autumn