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Thread: The face mask discussion

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    Scotland Avalon Member Ben's Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    The drive to scare people into wearing masks, is, in my opinion, a furthering of causing us to be scared of each other, and thus preventing empathic evolution.


    Christ, they've even got masses of people scared of their own bodies.



    FFS!

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    The very best epidemiologists are saying that a vaccine for an rna coronavirus may be impossible. I appreciate those who admit they are speculating, and use a lot a of qualifiers when it comes to this subject. Those who are completely certain, at this point, are nailing down conjecture and making it fact, prematurely.

    As there is so much we don't know at this point, it is best to act cautiously and mask up and avoid crowds, if you can. If you HAVE to work because your government is unable to help you out at this time, it's different. Just do your best and mask up with the best mask you can find and try to social distance.

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Maybe masking up is delaying herd immunity long enough for us to still be scared when the 'vaccine' shows up.


    We don't need a vaccine, we need to get on with living, and a health care service that's sharp enough to spot the vulnerable and take proper care of them.
    ..................................................my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Norman,

    You started out strong there, by starting your sentence with, 'maybe.' Your next sentence is prematurely certain. If you had started that with "perhaps" or "maybe" who could argue with you? Not me. It is your opinion and you are entitled to it. You simply aren't entitled to facts that have not been established.

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Opinion, was the stardard set by yourself. I offered mine.
    ..................................................my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Opinion, was the stardard set by yourself. I offered mine.
    Please clarify opinions with qualifiers. 'imo' works. It enhances dialogue back and forth. IMO, qualifying statements soften hard edges and lead to better all around understanding. People are less likely to demonize and develop a fundamentalist mind set.

    New paragraphs are best started with qualifying words as well, imho.

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    Canada Avalon Member TomKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Opinion, was the stardard set by yourself. I offered mine.
    Please clarify opinions with qualifiers. 'imo' works. It enhances dialogue back and forth. IMO, qualifying statements soften hard edges and lead to better all around understanding. People are less likely to demonize and develop a fundamentalist mind set.

    New paragraphs are best started with qualifying words as well, imho.
    We don't need a vaccine.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    I wear one to put other people at ease , grocery store... but I don't agree with them or anything else we are suppose to do. If I had the flu I'd stay home and away from elderly and people with respiratory problems like any other virus. By now everyone has it whether it shows up or not . Covic 19 has cured all diseases , everyone that dies is because of it now. https://londonreal.tv/dr-rashid-butt...voices-strong/

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Loren (here)
    I wear one to put other people at ease , grocery store... but I don't agree with them or anything else we are suppose to do. If I had the flu I'd stay home and away from elderly and people with respiratory problems like any other virus. By now everyone has it whether it shows up or not . Covic 19 has cured all diseases , everyone that dies is because of it now.
    That is brilliant Loren!
    Who can deny it?

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Opinion, was the stardard set by yourself. I offered mine.
    Please clarify opinions with qualifiers. 'imo' works. It enhances dialogue back and forth. IMO, qualifying statements soften hard edges and lead to better all around understanding. People are less likely to demonize and develop a fundamentalist mind set.

    New paragraphs are best started with qualifying words as well, imho.
    We don't need a vaccine.
    Maybe you are correct. Whether one is needed or not, it may be impossible to develop one that works.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Loren (here)
    I wear one to put other people at ease , grocery store... but I don't agree with them or anything else we are suppose to do. If I had the flu I'd stay home and away from elderly and people with respiratory problems like any other virus. By now everyone has it whether it shows up or not . Covic 19 has cured all diseases , everyone that dies is because of it now. https://londonreal.tv/dr-rashid-butt...voices-strong/
    Maybe we have all been exposed. How can anyone claim that we have been with complete certainty? To me this is a red flag for someone who is speaking from an ideological base, not a purely scientific one.

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    Canada Avalon Member TomKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Maybe we have all been exposed. How can anyone claim that we have been with complete certainty? To me this is a red flag for someone who is speaking from an ideological base, not a purely scientific one.
    We live in a world of ideological science by govt-funded consensus. Buyer beware. I'm not buying.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    I posted a month ago that in Ecuador, masks are mandatory. So there are no personal decisions to be made, if one wants to enter any store. But today, things went from 'red' to 'yellow', and that was just SO great to see.

    90% of the stores were open, and all the malls. The streets were crowded, and the only thing that wasn't quite normal again, despite the ubiquitous masks, was no buses — yet, but there will be soon: one person per double seat. Buses are vitally important for all the people here.

    I believe there are some restrictions on some restaurants. And the overnight curfew has been rolled back from starting at 2pm to starting at 9pm. That makes a big difference, all on its own.

    But what hit me was this. It was just so heartening to see people working again, selling things again, buying things again.

    That's critically important, more so than anything else right now. Against that, discussions about masks are comparatively trivial.

    Ecuador dropped the ball in Guayaquil for a couple weeks, with the whole world watching. For a short while, things were truly awful there. But apart from that period of local chaos, things have been orderly, quiet, well-organized, and the government has been hell-bent on re-opening the country in a reasonable way now that hospitals aren't overwhelmed any more. And there have been no shortages of anything at all.

    After all, that was the stated purpose of all the lockdowns in every country. Just to flatten the curve.

    No-one in Ecuador is talking about a vaccine. Just about getting the fatalities and ICU cases down — real numbers or not. Those stats drive the decisions. At least, here they do.

    So America, take note. Get the people back to work. Masks or not, it doesn't matter all that much.

    It's starting to look like the US may be one of the last first world countries to fully open up again. If wearing masks helps a return to normality (the original normal, not the "new" one!), that that has to be tolerable. Societies all over the world HAVE to return to regular business, or there'll be the biggest catastrophe in the last 100 years.

    There's absolutely NO logical reason that I'm aware of why almost every country can't be doing the same thing right now as Ecuador.


    If they're not, then something else is driving the decisions.
    Very nice to know, thanks for sharing it, I was about to post something similar about Thailand relaxing the curfew, markets, etc, I am referring your post because the situation here is quite similar.
    The market is open normally, wet market people start working, I am not so sure if they ever stopped, because they supply fresh food for the restaurants and the restaurants were open all time during the pandemic (delivery and take away), now restaurants are fully open, there is some restrictions like sell alcohol but they are open and people can actually eat in the restaurant.
    The curfew here start 23:00 (before 22:00) and goes until 3:00 (before 4:00), the government said it will easy the curfew since the number of cases are very low now.
    I heard that starting 5th June the beaches will be re-opened, beach sellers will have a few new rules to obey, 1 day in the week will not be allowed market on the beach.
    In general the Thai people are working, but the tourism is very low now since they closed the airport, I am not sure yet when they will re-open the international flights, at this moment it still closed, if I am not wrong only flights out of Thailand are allowed at this moment.
    Factories in the country are open and producing as far as i know, few days back I talked with 2 workers and they said, it never really stopped, at least the factory they work.
    The city I live on there is no public buses, most of people have their scooters/cars and there is Van and train, but they never stopped, even at peak moment of the pandemic.
    Perhaps Thailand got a mild strain of this virus, because the number here are very low if compared to other countries, or perhaps they are lying about the numbers, but truly I see no cases in my area, nothing. I heard from a friend that a couple from Spain that I know them, were hospitalized, but they returned home after a few days, it was not Covid-19 it was something else.

    I am glad everything seems to be going back to "normal".
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 25th September 2020 at 02:28.
    --
    A chaos to the sense, a Kosmos to the reason.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    As a science major, I wear a mask out of respect for others, especially my friends that are nurses and doctors. They have seen so much loss. More in 10 weeks than many medical professionals see in a year or more. Plus, the hotspots where big crowds gather without any care of social distancing or masks, have a much higher numbers. Sure a lot of people die with seasonal flu, if you are elderly or have compromised immune system, you are more at risk. This particular virus is on steroids, and if you are compromised and and anchors in your lungs you may not make it. I don’t think it’s finished yet. The people I know who had it felt sure they were going to die. I’m still not convinced it was not bioengineered. I wear a mask, even though it provide little or no protection for me, if I’m asymptomatic, I don’t want to make it easier for others to get it from me. I’m waiting to get an antibody test because I was so sick for 5 weeks around March I didn’t think I was going to make it. My fever was 100.3 when I first got sick and they would test me if it wasn’t 100.4. Lol.
    With Peace and Love, Mandala
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    I wear a mask when I go to areas that it is requested. Out of respect to others, there has been enough hate and discontent in this world without me adding too it. I have seen the infection rate double in the town nearest me, in one day we went from 20 to 40. I believe this is due to more extensive testing.

    I will be happy for the world to return to normal but my heart doubts it ever will.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Mandala (here)
    As a science major, I wear a mask out of respect for others, especially my friends that are nurses and doctors. They have seen so much loss. More in 10 weeks than many medical professionals see in a year or more. Plus, the hotspots where big crowds gather without any care of social distancing or masks, have a much higher numbers. Sure a lot of people die with seasonal flu, if you are elderly or have compromised immune system, you are more at risk. This particular virus is on steroids, and if you are compromised and and anchors in your lungs you may not make it. I don’t think it’s finished yet. The people I know who had it felt sure they were going to die. I’m still not convinced it was not bioengineered. I wear a mask, even though it provide little or no protection for me, if I’m asymptomatic, I don’t want to make it easier for others to get it from me. I’m waiting to get an antibody test because I was so sick for 5 weeks around March I didn’t think I was going to make it. My fever was 100.3 when I first got sick and they would test me if it wasn’t 100.4. Lol.
    Dear Mandala, It sounds like it has been difficult in your locality. Wishing you a full recovery, may you be well and safe !! 💓

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Unmasking The Science You Aren’t Hearing On TV | COVID-19 Facts from the Frontline | Tony Robbins


    Introducing the “Facts From the Frontlines” episode of #TheTonyRobbinsPodcast – where Tony uncovers the truth about coronavirus with a 7-person panel of highly qualified researchers, an experienced epidemiologist, a Nobel Laureate, and M.D.s testing and treating patients on the frontlines. Together, they reveal the evidence-based research that has come to light in the last two months.

    This is one of the most important interviews Tony has ever conducted. It reminds us to stand guard at the door of our mind, practice discernment when determining trustworthy sources, and think critically in order to stay flexible and maintain the ability to pivot in light of new information – especially when lives depend on it.

    To hear the full interview, go here: https://www.tonyrobbins.com/podcasts/...

    0:00 - Intro
    1:07 - WFO Death Toll
    1:19 - Journey
    1:47 - Who's on the Podcast
    2:08 - Unmasking The Science
    2:14 - Dr. Michael Levitt
    3:30 - Dr. Alan Preston
    4:22 - Sen. Scott Jensen, M.D.
    7:27 - Dr. Michael Roizen
    8:40 - Dr. Dan Erickson
    9:05 - Dr. Artin Massihi
    10:10 Dr. Eran Bendavid
    11:26 - Tony Robbins Closing Statement

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Coronavirus: Face coverings compulsory on public transport in England from 15 June
    People in England could be fined for not wearing face coverings on public transport from 15 June, the government has said.

    Transport secretary Grant Shapps confirmed on Wednesday that face coverings will become mandatory as more people return to work amid the coronavirus pandemic.

    He warned: “You could be refused travel if you don’t comply, and you could be fined.” He didn’t say how much the fines will be.

    Shapps said the rule will be enforced by British Transport Police officers, but added: “I expect the vast majority of people won’t need to be forced into this because wearing a face covering helps protect others.
    Commuters wearing face masks on the Jubilee line in central London, after the introduction of measures to bring the country out of lockdown.
    Face coverings will become mandatory on public transport from 15 June. (PA)

    “Most people simply want to help defeat this disease.”

    The date – 15 June – marks the next planned easing of the lockdown, when non-essential shops will be allowed to reopen and some pupils will return to secondary schools.

    Shapps, who was speaking at the daily coronavirus press conference in Downing Street, said there will be exemptions for very young children, disabled people and people with breathing difficulties.

    He added: “With more people using transport, the evidence suggests that wearing face coverings offers some – albeit limited – protection against the spread of the virus.”

    Network Rail chairman Sir Peter Hendy said he expects most passengers to comply with the requirement.

    “I am not expecting a huge upsurge in railway staff having to police this,” he told the briefing.

    “I am expecting sensible passengers to do their duty and look after themselves and others.”

    Mayor of London Sadiq Khan, responding to the announcement, said the government “has finally seen sense”.
    Read more: How to make and wear your own 'face covering'

    “This is something I and others have been calling on ministers to do for some time,” he said, “and is in line with a large body of evidence that they can help stop the spread of coronavirus.”

    Meanwhile, Shapps suggested that passengers on trains starting outside England may have to put on coverings when crossing the border.

    He said: “You would need to be wearing it in England, that’s absolutely true.”

    Scotland and Wales will be left to issue their own guidance, the transport secretary added.

    Scotland has already issued a recommendation for people to use face coverings while food shopping and using public transport. Nicola Sturgeon said on Wednesday she is considering making it mandatory.
    Top scientists respond to announcement

    Dr Antonio Lazzarino, from University College London’s department of epidemiology and public health said: “While no ad-hoc studies with a correct design have been carried out, it is now commonly accepted that face coverings provide very little protection, if any.”

    However, Trish Greenhalgh, professor of primary care health services at the University of Oxford, was more positive: “Face coverings aren’t 100% effective, but they’re not 0% effective either. I’ve seen evidence that a double layer of cloth is between 60% and 90% effective in stopping the spread of viral-laden droplets coming from the wearer, and also that the same mask is also 30% to 50% effective at stopping virus particles getting to the wearer.

    “You can argue about the exact percentages, but overall, if everyone wears a face covering when they’re at close quarters, transmission is going to go down dramatically.”

    Prof Sian Griffiths, who was co-chair of the Hong Kong government’s SARS inquiry, said: “The evidence for the use of face masks or face coverings has been accumulating and it is now widely accepted that, along with other social distancing measures and hygiene measures, they can contribute to decreasing the risk of transmission in the community.”

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/face-cover...161357580.html
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    [B][SIZE="3"]

    However, Trish Greenhalgh, professor of primary care health services at the University of Oxford, was more positive: “Face coverings aren’t 100% effective, but they’re not 0% effective either. I’ve seen evidence that a double layer of cloth is between 60% and 90% effective in stopping the spread of viral-laden droplets coming from the wearer, and also that the same mask is also 30% to 50% effective at stopping virus particles getting to the wearer.

    “You can argue about the exact percentages, but overall, if everyone wears a face covering when they’re at close quarters, transmission is going to go down dramatically.”

    Prof Sian Griffiths, who was co-chair of the Hong Kong government’s SARS inquiry, said: “The evidence for the use of face masks or face coverings has been accumulating and it is now widely accepted that, along with other social distancing measures and hygiene measures, they can contribute to decreasing the risk of transmission in the community.”

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/face-cover...161357580.html
    They say the evidence has been accumulating without much proof. That said I would not be against putting on a mask for the brief time I need to take the subway. But take in account the following scientific warnings against masks :

    Blaylock: Face Masks Pose Serious Risks To The Healthy

    Citizens for Free Speech

    POSTED BY PATRICK WOOD 919SC ON MAY 11, 2020


    https://oneradionetwork.com/archive/...o-the-healthy/

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Jeeze. Where's the common sense here?

    The face mask is either effective or it is not. It either protects against the spread of infectious agents or it does not. There is no such thing as somewhat effective. You know why? Because never has there been a study for the effectiveness of masks, and definitely not for the partial effectiveness of them.

    Now for the common sense. If it is only partially effective, what part? The part where your oxygen intake is reduced or the part of where the chance of contact with the virus is reduced?

    To use an analogy, let's say you are on a spacewalk with a spacesuit on. Do you think there is any chance that a partly effective spacesuit will protect your life? Even if it only let's 1% of the air in the suit out, does that sound safe? Same with the mask, literally the same. The mask either protects or it doesn't, there is no grey area.

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    Canada Avalon Member TomKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    It's more than a mask, it's a statement of obedience. Virtue signalling. What do apple-polishing students do when they grow up? They wear covid masks out in public for the world to see. It's more important to them than breathing. My definition of a zombie: someone who wears a mask while alone.

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