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Thread: Do you wear a face mask?

  1. Link to Post #101
    Avalon Member Hym's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    I'm used to wearing masks during construction, so the simple masks, and the rare bandanas are available, even pulling the back tie end of my turban over my face during unexpected high wind and debris events. The n95's are commonly used as protection by painters when prepping surfaces and the double filtered masks I've used when roofing and painting with paints, stains, etc. that are high in volatile organic compounds, VOC's. it's funny that the average joe out there now knows some of the lingo we use in construction, maintenance and film set building. PPE's. Personal Protective Equipment.

    Considering that I've continuously had a beard for over 36 years, cleaner than most faces I see, I doubt that I'll ever be asked to do the unthinkable and shave it, something that'll never happen. You know, with all of that personal liberty and constitutional stuff about freedom of religion and all, along with the fact that there are so many doctors who have healthy, sanitary facial hair and who treat patients with all manner of disease, with or without various levels of masks.

    The areas not covered, the exposed skin on the face and the surfaces of the eyes, are just as susceptible to contamination as are the air passages covered by masks, though the pathways of infection differ.

    I do see the attempt at a fascist implementation of a vaccine poisoning agenda that may require a vaccination certificate, or an internal, electronic mark of the beasty boys, to use air and maybe land travel in the possible future, but we'll deal with that if it ever arrives.

    Getting an injunction against any mandate to capitulate to a vaccine, even with all of the thousands of studies and hundreds of the best scientists willing to testify to the proofs of the danger of modern vaccination, may be an uphill battle, but it will be one worth the fight. We'll have to get the real constitutional experts, the unattached doctors and the RFK Jr.s to come together to lend us their support.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Quote Posted by Hym (here)
    ... even pulling the back tie end of my turban over my face during unexpected high wind and debris events. .
    Off topic but ..

    Are you Sikh? (and yes I know not only Sikhs wear turbans) I have always been curious as to why it seems we have no Sikhs on Avalon ...
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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  5. Link to Post #103
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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    I wouldn't characterize that as hilarious.
    Wearing or not wearing a mask is a personal choice.
    Spraying someone with Lysol is a physical assault.
    Right. It's called sarcasm!

    You have a twisted sense of humor.

  6. Link to Post #104
    Avalon Member meeradas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Am considering getting this one:



    https://intapted.com/products/plague...ume-props-mask

    "Wearing this gorgeous mask will give a stunning and lasting impression of a life time at any events you attend."

    PS:
    Last edited by meeradas; 23rd April 2020 at 20:39.

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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Wow ... only $30? I need one ... I would totally wear this mask!

    PS: thanks for the PS - one of my favourite scenes.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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  10. Link to Post #106
    Avalon Member Hym's Avatar
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    Angry Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Way off topic here also, but let's call it an unmasking. Not of me, cause I am who I am without the cover of a misguided ego. Here's a little that the mods may choose to move or delete at their request or action. No worries.

    Yes. I am a sikh, who being naughty by the nature of being, does not conform to anyone else's definition of being. I do think that there are likely some sikhs on the forum but who, like me, don't have an agenda to sell, as it is antithetical to living that way as seva sikhs, GurSikhs, warriors. It is and isn't incidental to my choices and blessings. There are also likely many sikhs around the world who read these threads.

    The difference as a sikh in this world is that I don't adhere to the dictates of the major american sikh organizations, with histories deeply corrupted by their criminal enterprises, their own enhanced weaknesses and their cultish, idol worship of dark yogis. That's a tremendous difference here in the states, especially when considering the simplistic and directly honest basis of the method that lives on personal responsibility and the inclusion of the support of all paths.

    It is not possible for fakirs and tugees, in this case spawned from the Ho, Ho, Ho/ Jolly Green Giant (3Ho's-around a street lamp) clan of the wicked witches/super b'ches of the west, to claim any integrity when they steal from thousands of small businesses, collude with government agencies, and promote a fake ass yoga that it's own inventor-in-thief deemed as his job to insure that no students achieve the ultimate goals listed within its name...Kundalini. I accurately call it Kundalini Dampening. The american-presented bastardization of that is nothing of the sort, about the science of the innate presence of the mechanism within, but I must say that he did achieve that goal of non-realization amongst those who couldn't tell the difference between a yogic hustler and a real man.

    For those of you who have gleamed some benefit from any of that, and just in case you don't know it already, you are released from the dogma as you have always been able to achieve much more than the stated goals of your "certifications". Make up your own and call it what you want as long as you do it with openness, sincerity, a fearless humility and integrity.

    Some wear turbans to consolidate and conceal their prejudice, what a great american sikh and seer friend of mine referred to as "consolidated neurosis". Just as preachers and priests, rabbis, imams and mullahs do, they attempt to hide their true godless nature in plain sight.

    Some few wear them to liberate themselves from excessive grounding in the karmic locks of this material world. It is an honoring and care for the gift of the container, the body, which makes it easier to perceive their own value and the value of others beyond the surface structure of their present hold, the many masks of the matrix.


    Do the exercises if you prefer and do the mediations at your own insistence and pace, separating any promise of achievements thru mantras "guaranteed" by the salesman, while learning what they mean to you, what their import and connection is to you and to you alone. That MF'er once said he was going to hell and whatever, whenever and wherever that is, he surely earned it. Just remember that the salesman/teacher was a master thief and he chose those around him who mirrored that same callous F*#kery.

    The identity of a sikh is all service and not ever dominance, nor the energetic, tonal signature of a fear based presence. Those who are real GurSikhs know me intimately and know who I am, even if we have never met on this grounded plane getting ready to take off.


    Self Mod note here:

    I sure do get faaaaaar afield on some of my posts. This one is no exception. I've deleted some others with a note explaining my reasoning.

    I'm leaving this one up as a public service to those who have gone through what I have and may appreciate a deeper insight, where most all responses, insights and counters are encouraged.

    Despite that pseudo-validation of my excesses, I'll get off of my ass and start a new thread if I feel the need to go where this subject takes me. That or find a similar thread where the posts I make fit in.

    Back To The Topic!
    Last edited by Hym; 24th April 2020 at 16:19.

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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Surgical masks are for the protection of others, for the most part. This doesn't lend itself to voluntary measures, as there will always be some yahoo who doesn't care about anybody but themselves. They will NEVER take precautions to protect me...so ****'em. Make them wear a mask in close quarters.

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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Hym,

    I have always thought Sikhs were very cool, good people. Many in British Columbia and well represented at the federal political level. It doesn't seem to be holier than thou.

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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Surgical masks are for the protection of others, for the most part. This doesn't lend itself to voluntary measures, as there will always be some yahoo who doesn't care about anybody but themselves. They will NEVER take precautions to protect me...so ****'em. Make them wear a mask in close quarters.
    Could you please expand on that a little?
    When someone wears a mask they are protecting others and not the person wearing it? Is that what you are saying?

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  18. Link to Post #110
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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Catching the flu --cold-- a virus actually strengthens the immune system.
    One major concern I have is that this virus does not act like most viruses where you do catch it and acquire immunity. IF this is bioengineered, I suspect that it does exactly the opposite. That if you do actually "catch" it, that is that the virus gains a foothold in your body and your immune system does not succeed in keeping it at bay at the first go round, then it settles in your body and becomes a recurring problem, much like lyme disease, which has also been speculated as being an engineered virus.

    Quote Protecting people is a double edged sword.
    By all means protect the frail and vulnerable but untold harm is being done to the life blood of the economy --the NHS and others need money to function -- where will the money come from with a greatly reduced economy.
    But wearing a mask does not affect the economy. It does not stop people from buying/selling/whatever.

    Quote Look what happened when the south American tribes met invaders fort he first time -- their immune system had no experience of even the common cold-- they were dying in large numbers -- the invaders hardly affected.
    Getting this virus is not necessarily a bad thing, it prepares the immune system for the next one.
    No heard immunity, many more will die next time.
    Kindness kills.

    The immune system is greatly compromised by fear -- thats a medical fact-- there has been so much media hypethat It would not surprise me if this fear generated is responsible for more deaths and the suicide rate will escalate.
    I don't really quite follow your example. We're the indigenious people being exposed to a novel virus. We're the ones going to be wiped out (theoretically, according to the example).

    But I totally agree that the immune system is compromised by fear!

    Quote What about young couples who thought they had a relatively secure future, a mortgage and a young family.
    How many millions unemployed already in the USA alone?
    Not a great deal of thought being given to the repercussions of all this.
    Im not a David Icke fan but this time Im listening to him.

    Chris
    Agreed. There is not enough consideration and support being given to these people!!! But the thread was about masks, so that's what I'm focusing on.

    Quote Posted by Tomkoyote (here)
    Quote Posted by rainsong (here)
    That didn't last for that long, so the idea that it's some prelude to some permanent mask-wearing-thing doesn't hold water for me.
    Really?
    One of my client is a travel agency. One of the agents told me this morning that Westjet has just released a statement saying that from now on passengers are required to wear a mask before boarding the plane, once flights resume.

    Enjoy your mask.
    I'm not following this line of reasoning. I don't see that requiring a mask now automatically makes it a permanent thing. With masks specifically, we have precedence to show the opposite.

    See, I think part of the disagreement comes from beginning perspectives. I agree that in general, when liberties are handed over to government authorities, they're not given back. But I don't put masks in that category.

    Masks are way of opening up liberties where otherwise circumstances might shut them down.

    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    I don't know where you got the idea it was to protect others. Its personal protective gear not the other way around. IF they want protection they wear one also. You wear goggles to protect your eyes not everyone else's and you wear a mask to protect your entry points. The fact that the mask can also aid in reducing the distance of sneezes or coughs is just a bonus but not the primary reason or benefit of having it.

    In times of plenty a new mask was used for each patient but they have to keep and wear and disinfect the same masks now and some nurses and doctors are expected to work without their own personal protection.

    Those nurses quitting over not having a mask are not quitting because they are worried about the patients not having protection. They are quitting because the mask isn't there to protect them and they refused to work in an unsafe environment..

    This forum with the too busy server even when trying to edit your own post is very frustrating Bill! You've outgrown your server!
    Yes, PPEs are PERSONAL Protection Equipment. But that doesn't change the fact that masks help stop the spread of contagions. As a mom, I teach my kids to cover their mouths when they cough. That's not for their personal benefit. It's for those around them. That's the common sense part that I'm talking about.

    So here's my thing: I've thought about this virus and the response. I've been unhappy about the response from the beginning, so I wondered, "What would I do differently?" One thought I had was that as soon as I SUSPECTED a new, highly contagious (even before symptoms start) respiratory virus had infected a community, mandatory mask wearing would go into effect.

    This would slow the spread and allow people to continue to interact in a way that would preserve lives and the economy. It's not to curtail freedom or economic actions. It's to preserve them.

    Because what happens when large amounts of people are no longer healthy enough to go to work? Things start to shut down, regardless of government interventions. There simply isn't enough manpower to keep things going.

    Now, if you don't believe that the virus is really that contagious or dangerous or that there is even a virus to begin with, you're coming from a totally different perspective. Of course you're going to disagree about the masks, and understandably so!

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  20. Link to Post #111
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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Quote Posted by rainsong (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Catching the flu --cold-- a virus actually strengthens the immune system.
    One major concern I have is that this virus does not act like most viruses where you do catch it and acquire immunity. IF this is bioengineered, I suspect that it does exactly the opposite. That if you do actually "catch" it, that is that the virus gains a foothold in your body and your immune system does not succeed in keeping it at bay at the first go round, then it settles in your body and becomes a recurring problem, much like lyme disease, which has also been speculated as being an engineered virus.

    Quote Protecting people is a double edged sword.
    By all means protect the frail and vulnerable but untold harm is being done to the life blood of the economy --the NHS and others need money to function -- where will the money come from with a greatly reduced economy.
    But wearing a mask does not affect the economy. It does not stop people from buying/selling/whatever.

    Quote Look what happened when the south American tribes met invaders fort he first time -- their immune system had no experience of even the common cold-- they were dying in large numbers -- the invaders hardly affected.
    Getting this virus is not necessarily a bad thing, it prepares the immune system for the next one.
    No heard immunity, many more will die next time.
    Kindness kills.

    The immune system is greatly compromised by fear -- thats a medical fact-- there has been so much media hypethat It would not surprise me if this fear generated is responsible for more deaths and the suicide rate will escalate.
    I don't really quite follow your example. We're the indigenious people being exposed to a novel virus. We're the ones going to be wiped out (theoretically, according to the example).

    But I totally agree that the immune system is compromised by fear!

    Quote What about young couples who thought they had a relatively secure future, a mortgage and a young family.
    How many millions unemployed already in the USA alone?
    Not a great deal of thought being given to the repercussions of all this.
    Im not a David Icke fan but this time Im listening to him.

    Chris
    Agreed. There is not enough consideration and support being given to these people!!! But the thread was about masks, so that's what I'm focusing on.

    Quote Posted by Tomkoyote (here)
    Quote Posted by rainsong (here)
    That didn't last for that long, so the idea that it's some prelude to some permanent mask-wearing-thing doesn't hold water for me.
    Really?
    One of my client is a travel agency. One of the agents told me this morning that Westjet has just released a statement saying that from now on passengers are required to wear a mask before boarding the plane, once flights resume.

    Enjoy your mask.
    I'm not following this line of reasoning. I don't see that requiring a mask now automatically makes it a permanent thing. With masks specifically, we have precedence to show the opposite.

    See, I think part of the disagreement comes from beginning perspectives. I agree that in general, when liberties are handed over to government authorities, they're not given back. But I don't put masks in that category.

    Masks are way of opening up liberties where otherwise circumstances might shut them down.

    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    I don't know where you got the idea it was to protect others. Its personal protective gear not the other way around. IF they want protection they wear one also. You wear goggles to protect your eyes not everyone else's and you wear a mask to protect your entry points. The fact that the mask can also aid in reducing the distance of sneezes or coughs is just a bonus but not the primary reason or benefit of having it.

    In times of plenty a new mask was used for each patient but they have to keep and wear and disinfect the same masks now and some nurses and doctors are expected to work without their own personal protection.

    Those nurses quitting over not having a mask are not quitting because they are worried about the patients not having protection. They are quitting because the mask isn't there to protect them and they refused to work in an unsafe environment..

    This forum with the too busy server even when trying to edit your own post is very frustrating Bill! You've outgrown your server!
    Yes, PPEs are PERSONAL Protection Equipment. But that doesn't change the fact that masks help stop the spread of contagions. As a mom, I teach my kids to cover their mouths when they cough. That's not for their personal benefit. It's for those around them. That's the common sense part that I'm talking about.

    So here's my thing: I've thought about this virus and the response. I've been unhappy about the response from the beginning, so I wondered, "What would I do differently?" One thought I had was that as soon as I SUSPECTED a new, highly contagious (even before symptoms start) respiratory virus had infected a community, mandatory mask wearing would go into effect.

    This would slow the spread and allow people to continue to interact in a way that would preserve lives and the economy. It's not to curtail freedom or economic actions. It's to preserve them.

    Because what happens when large amounts of people are no longer healthy enough to go to work? Things start to shut down, regardless of government interventions. There simply isn't enough manpower to keep things going.

    Now, if you don't believe that the virus is really that contagious or dangerous or that there is even a virus to begin with, you're coming from a totally different perspective. Of course you're going to disagree about the masks, and understandably so!
    I don't just disagree with you on the masks I've proven you wrong on your take! A surgical mask is meant to help block large-particle droplets, splashes, sprays, or splatter that may contain germs (viruses and bacteria), keeping it from reaching your mouth and nose as I stated earlier. Surgical masks may also help reduce exposure of your saliva and respiratory secretions to others.

    While a surgical mask may be effective in blocking splashes and large-particle droplets, a face mask, by design, does not filter or block very small particles in the air that may be transmitted by coughs, sneezes, or certain medical procedures. Combined with a mask a combination of both is the best precaution. I never once stated or suggested that this was not real and again I don't know what you think you read sometimes but it's very real. And again those nurses that quit at NY hospitals did not quit because they were worried about the patients safety by their not having a mask they quit because they felt unsafe without a mask!
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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  22. Link to Post #112
    Avalon Member Hym's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Self Modding here. Adjusting the frequency. A little self-correction.

    I've deleted my response as it, though it may be interesting to some, is only a far off tangent from the topic.

    I just have to initiate a new thread or do some research here in our data base to find an appropriate place to express those experiences.

    I've been far afield, off topic, before, but that just didn't fit.

    P.S. I do save my drafts and edits from here, as an analysis of how to read my posts more effectively before putting them out.
    Last edited by Hym; 24th April 2020 at 15:26.

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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Hym,

    I have always thought Sikhs were very cool, good people. Many in British Columbia and well represented at the federal political level. It doesn't seem to be holier than thou.
    I have great respect for most of the Sikhs I know (and I know a fair few - my boss is one). Sure many of them these days are just going through their religious motions like most "Christians" do, but I also find a lot that I am able to have great philosophical discussions with - we see eye to eye on many levels.

    The Sikh religion sometimes seems odd to us westerners but I had a great guy explain all the symbolism behind it all and how Sikhs helped to dismantle the religious wars in India way back in the day, and the methods they used. All cool stuff.

    We have a massive temple in my end of the city, and the kitchen is always open to those needing food of any religion or ethnicity ... truly selfless.

    anyway ...
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 23rd April 2020 at 22:47.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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  26. Link to Post #114
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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Quote Posted by Ratszinger (here)
    ... trim ...

    While a surgical mask may be effective in blocking splashes and large-particle droplets, ... <balh, blah trimm>
    Ok you guys - surgical masks are to keep things from coming out of your mouth, dust masks are designed to help keep things like dust, getting in. Neither can stop a virus on a specific sized particle (viruses are way smaller than N95 can protect against), but both will help prevent you from speaking "moistly" (official term as per our Prime minister, lol) on others. Both will provide some protection against breathing in particles of a large enough size, both carry other additional risks.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Quote Posted by rainsong (here)
    One major concern I have is that this virus does not act like most viruses where you do catch it and acquire immunity. IF this is bioengineered, I suspect that it does exactly the opposite. That if you do actually "catch" it, that is that the virus gains a foothold in your body and your immune system does not succeed in keeping it at bay at the first go round, then it settles in your body and becomes a recurring problem, much like lyme disease, which has also been speculated as being an engineered virus.
    Since this virus is allegedly new, we can only speculate on what you have said.
    Do you have any evidence for what you have said beyond speculation?

    Let's add one other point to the discussion.
    The vast majority of people who become Covid-19 positive either show no symptoms at all or very mild ones. If as you speculate they do not acquire immunity, but their bodies fight it off successfully, why should a second bout of the virus be any different from the first?

    rainsong you will likely be interested in this post in another thread that contradicts your speculation using CDC data:

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1350287

    Please look at the third bullet point:

    • the virus that causes Covid-19 is “very vulnerable to antibody neutralization” and has limited ability to mutate, which means it is very unlikely to take masses of lives year after year like the flu and other recurring scourges.
    Last edited by DaveToo; 24th April 2020 at 00:34. Reason: Added link to another thread

  29. Link to Post #116
    United States Moderator Sarah Rainsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by rainsong (here)
    One major concern I have is that this virus does not act like most viruses where you do catch it and acquire immunity. IF this is bioengineered, I suspect that it does exactly the opposite. That if you do actually "catch" it, that is that the virus gains a foothold in your body and your immune system does not succeed in keeping it at bay at the first go round, then it settles in your body and becomes a recurring problem, much like lyme disease, which has also been speculated as being an engineered virus.
    Since this virus is allegedly new, we can only speculate on what you have said.
    Do you have any evidence for what you have said beyond speculation?

    Let's add one other point to the discussion.
    The vast majority of people who become Covid-19 positive either show no symptoms at all or very mild ones. If as you speculate they do not acquire immunity, but their bodies fight it off successfully, why should a second bout of the virus be any different from the first?
    Oh yes, I agree it's speculation. My speculation comes from knowing that there are other biphasic viruses and articles like Explainer: Coronavirus reappears in discharged patients, raising questions in containment fight and Doctors warn China coronavirus carriers may show no symptoms of illness and others that I have read over the last few months, but I don't really have the time to go dig them up, so I hope these few links will suffice.

    As for your other point, I think using examples might best explain how I'm looking at this. Imagine COVID as an invading army. The BODY is the defending army.
    Example #1 - COVID attacks the first line of defense. BODY holds that line and the attack is thwarted without COVID every encroaching on BODY territory.

    Example #2 - COVID breaches the first line of defense, but the second line holds. BODY eventually forces COVID back out of their territory. No cities or towns were involved, and no damage occurred during the attack.

    Example #3 - COVID breaches the first line of defense and the second. Towns and cities are attacked. Looting and destruction begins to occur. At this point, BODY either is able to fight COVID back out of their territory or eventually COVID wins and BODY is conquered.
    Now, in the first and second examples, no damage occurs. There are no symptoms in either case.

    Example #1 is what I mean by keeping the virus from ever gaining a foothold.

    But in Example #2, the virus does temporarily gain a small foothold.

    So successfully fighting off the virus may not be as simple as having no or only minor symptoms. Successfully fighting off the virus means that it never got enough hold to get that far to begin with, it never made it past the first line of defense. But since it can be established in the body well before symptoms start, I don't see how you can use symptoms as a judge for whether or not the virus was kept from ever establishing a foothold.

    In other words, if damage by the COVID army is the measure for how far they advanced into BODY's territory, how do you know whether they made it past the first line of defense or the second?

    So that's why I don't think that the severity of symptoms is necessarily a good indication of how this virus is going to act in future, which yes, we're only speculating on.

    Infected but Feeling Fine: The Unwitting Coronavirus Spreaders

    So if COVID is a biphasic disease, then it's more like Example #2 but with a bit more nuance.
    Consider this Example #2A - COVID breaches the first line of defense and sends a covert group to damage a dam that is providing power to BODY. The group succeeds and the dam is compromised. But BODY pushes COVID back out of their territory before any cities or towns are attacked. The dam is still compromised. It's just waiting for the right storm to come along and finish the job, demolishing the dam and destroying the power system along with many communities. But since the damage was covert, BODY doesn't know about it.
    So the damage to the dam was still done, even though BODY or any other observing kingdom does not see that. That's how I see the second wave being different than the first. The second wave comes as a totally different style of attack.

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  31. Link to Post #117
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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Thanks for taking the time to explain your position.


    Quote Posted by rainsong (here)
    Quote Posted by DaveToo (here)
    Quote Posted by rainsong (here)
    One major concern I have is that this virus does not act like most viruses where you do catch it and acquire immunity. IF this is bioengineered, I suspect that it does exactly the opposite. That if you do actually "catch" it, that is that the virus gains a foothold in your body and your immune system does not succeed in keeping it at bay at the first go round, then it settles in your body and becomes a recurring problem, much like lyme disease, which has also been speculated as being an engineered virus.
    Since this virus is allegedly new, we can only speculate on what you have said.
    Do you have any evidence for what you have said beyond speculation?

    Let's add one other point to the discussion.
    The vast majority of people who become Covid-19 positive either show no symptoms at all or very mild ones. If as you speculate they do not acquire immunity, but their bodies fight it off successfully, why should a second bout of the virus be any different from the first?
    Oh yes, I agree it's speculation. My speculation comes from knowing that there are other biphasic viruses and articles...

    As for your other point, I think using examples might best explain how I'm looking at this. Imagine COVID as an invading army. The BODY is the defending army.

    Example #1 - COVID attacks the first line of defense. BODY holds that line and the attack is thwarted without COVID every encroaching on BODY territory.
    Example #1 is pretty clear and straight forward.

    Quote Example #2 - COVID breaches the first line of defense, but the second line holds. BODY eventually forces COVID back out of their territory. No cities or towns were involved, and no damage occurred during the attack.
    When you say "BODY eventually forces COVID out of their territory", to me that sounds like out of the body, no? No harm done at all, even though it breached the first line of defence.

    Quote Example #3 - COVID breaches the first line of defense and the second. Towns and cities are attacked. Looting and destruction begins to occur. At this point, BODY either is able to fight COVID back out of their territory or eventually COVID wins and BODY is conquered.
    Example #3 says either the body kicks COVID out or it doesn't. But you don't say exactly what happens if it doesn't kick COVID out.
    There are several possibilities. Body gets sick and recovers. Body gets sick and dies. Body shows no signs of illness but COVID hangs around inside body.

    Quote But in Example #2, the virus does temporarily gain a small foothold.

    So successfully fighting off the virus may not be as simple as having no or only minor symptoms. Successfully fighting off the virus means that it never got enough hold to get that far to begin with, it never made it past the first line of defense.
    I disagree here. You can successfully fight off the virus at the first line of defence, second or even third! So long as you win in the end, you have successfully fought off the virus.
    Quote But since it can be established in the body well before symptoms start, I don't see how you can use symptoms as a judge for whether or not the virus was kept from ever establishing a foothold.
    I agree with you on this. It is certainly possible that the virus can hang around for a short or long period of time, undetected.

    Quote In other words, if damage by the COVID army is the measure for how far they advanced into BODY's territory, how do you know whether they made it past the first line of defense or the second?

    So that's why I don't think that the severity of symptoms is necessarily a good indication of how this virus is going to act in future, which yes, we're only speculating on.
    I agree with you on these points.

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  33. Link to Post #118
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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Amazing parallels between this new flu and the 1957 one:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...2cc_story.html

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  35. Link to Post #119
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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    Its very hard to sort the wheat from the chaff.
    There is much talk about this virus being different --then how come experts are talking about herd immunity developing?
    Some say no worse that the seasonal flu but different.
    Its also implied that seasonal flu did not happen this year but hospitals wont be able to cope when the next virus wave hits at the same time as seasonal flu end of this year.

    Think it falls in to do you believe the propaganda that the only thing that will save you is an anti virus injection when this is available. Or do you believe that your body is amazing and for the great majority the immune system will cope fine.
    I dont think wearing a mask will stop you getting this virus or spreading it.

    I was in hospital for my monthly eye injection last Friday -- I was given a mask to wear which was somewhat uncomfortable and I could not do the eye tests as my glasses kept steaming up due to breath heading upwards on to the glasses and them steaming up.
    Regardless of mask the breath was going in and out and finding the easiest route --that is bypassing the mask at least in part.
    Thats my practical experience.
    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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  37. Link to Post #120
    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you wear a face mask?

    This is a great thread. I haven't gotten past page two, but man you all had me laughing for a while. I love you all.

    I don't wear a mask, but it's only because I have always felt weird about wearing a mask of any kind. I just always felt like we are all wearing masks already and it was dumb to add another layer to an already muddled situation as we have here on Planet Earth.

    And I come from a city where everyone wears masks during Mardi Gras. I'd just put my sunglasses on and call it a day.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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