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Thread: The face mask discussion

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    Avalon Member Terry777's Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    I don't wear a mask at the local stores in my little community, but I wear one in the large box stores with facial recognition. I was the first person to do so and I could tell how nervous people looked back then. I also have sunglasses with reading lenses, so I always keep my sunglasses on. In the Pacific Northwest it's not uncommon for people to wear N95 masks during forest fire season, and pollen season. I have a bunch of N95s for burning brush piles, mowing, woodworking, etc.

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    United States Moderator Sue (Ayt)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    No. Where I live, very few wear masks. It is so laid back, that you would hardly know there was a virus if you didn't have any media. I'm grateful I am where I am.
    If I had to travel somewhere, like to a city, I would probably wear one.
    "We're all bozos on this bus"

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    I had to go to the bank the other day, so wore a surgical mask to protect the teller. First time I have been in an enclosed space in a month. The masks are uncomfortable. My glasses fogged up and so, yeah. I don't see that particular kind as being particularly useful for the wearer. Maybe the opposite. But...it will protect front line employees, if they aren't masked, so its important to use them in certain situations.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    No.
    And when I take a walk and people coming the other way start walking single file or moving away I smile and say with a mock threatening voice...
    "If you come near me I'm going to give you a hug!"

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    United States Moderator Tam's Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Yes, absolutely, and you should, too.


    The principle behind normalizing the wearing of masks isn't to keep you from getting sick. It's to help minimize spread by limiting how many droplets of saliva you expel by simply speaking/breathing, droplets which, if infected, could very well transmit the virus to another person, and so on. Are masks fool-proof? Absolutely not. And nobody is saying they are, either. At least, nobody with basic sense. But they do help. And help isn't hurting anyone. Something is better than nothing.


    Look at countries where wearing masks during sickness has been a cultural, standard practice for decades. South Korea, Singapore, Japan. Look at how much lower their infection rates per capita are, despite how their population is several times denser than, say, the US or Canada. Normalized wearing of masks has no small role in lower transmission rates in these nations. It's not a matter of politics there, or of trusting the government. It's something you just do, without thinking twice, long before this virus was a thing. It's accepted as a viable way to minimize spread of sickness, as well as basic manners and consideration to those around you.


    I'm noticing this one little nugget of misinformation spreading like wildfire; the idea that wearing masks is meant to keep you, the wearer, safe from transmission. Not so. It is well known that the virus is so miniscule that unless you have N-95 or better, it's going to pass right through your homemade number.


    The principle behind wearing masks is simply to reduce the odds of an infection person spreading it to others, as less saliva droplets make their way out into the air for an unsuspecting passerby to come into contact with. That's it. Nothing more.


    That's what experts say, that's what they're advocating, and the only reason why it wasn't stressed from early on was to prevent mass hoarding of masks that would cause a shortage for those who need them (healthcare workers, etc).


    This mask/no mask debate is ridiculous. What do we have to lose by wearing masks? And please, spare us the angsty, melodramatic argument that it normalizes authoritarianism or some such nonsense. That argument holds as much water as God damned colander.


    Our great grandparents were drafted in a world war and forced to fight and endure horrible, traumatic evils to keep the world in something of a functional state.


    We're being asked to stay inside, entertain ourselves, and wear face masks. It shouldn't be this difficult.


    I find it ironic that many people who dismiss this pandemic as a hoax caution us not to buy into fearmongering sensationalism then turn around and spread half-baked fear-porn about how the "lockdown" is three steps away from an Orwellian regime that renders the ghettoes of the Holocaust cute in comparison.


    While there's certainly more than meets the eye to this pandemic, and while the PTB will surely not let this opportunity go to waste, it seems the ugly head of partisan politics has somehow snaked its way into what is arguably the least partisan issue out there: a f*cking global pandemic.


    Make no mistake, this virus is very real, it's far more virulent and violent than the flu, it takes no prisoners, and if you think the lockdown is bad now, just you wait and see how much worse it will get if people keep on dismissing the virus and carrying on as usual. Nature doesn't give a **** who you voted for, she will mercilessly wipe you off the face of the Earth if she has to.


    What do you think will happen when we reopen the economy too soon, and people go back to "normal" life and the infection rate skyrockets? When the healthcare system collapses and mass graves are the last resort that become standard?


    If there were ever something to usher in a Brave New Regime, it would be that.


    So, please.


    Untwist you panties, get those rusted critical thinking gears turning again, and wear a damn mask. It's not like they're used diapers.


    This is getting ridiculous.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    What an excellent Ministry of Truth script learner and repeater you are Tam.
    You have done a wonderful job memorizing the propaganda and I assume will be the first in line for the toxic vaccine to do your duty.
    Good for you. You will fully deserve the consequences both in your mind and body.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    What an excellent Ministry of Truth script learner and repeater you are Tam.
    You have done a wonderful job memorizing the propaganda and I assume will be the first in line for the toxic vaccine to do your duty.
    Good for you. You will fully deserve the consequences both in your mind and body.
    Mod note from Bill:

    Man alive, you can be a nasty piece of work sometimes. That vicious, unnecessary post should really be deleted, but I'm leaving it here because I want everyone here to read it.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Fortunately I had whole pack of them in my medical bag as they are now compulsory to wear in public places here and turned out to be valued item.
    It’s not an absolute rule but theoretically you can be fined for refusing to wear one.

    Personally, I should have opted for wearing it while the traffic went insanely high during last couple of years at certain places like all the Tokyoites do but I did not want to “show off”. My fault though.
    I had constant sore throats, nose and breathing problems because of the pollution and dust on roads but gave up on myself in a way, that time.
    Paradoxically enough, during the recent curfew while almost all traffic was halted for a month now,
    this is the first time after many years I started recovering.


    Feeling so grateful to be able to breathe freely again but dislike the masks anyway

    It just made me to think about the original meaning of hijabs( and whatever those were called) by nomadic tribes living in desert as a protection against subtle sand blowing to their face constantly.
    You could probably find how they worked in some old fashioned movies such as Lawrence of Arabia

    They definitely had more than one practical usage before they were turned to “religious symbol”.

    It’s sarcastic how the movement to ban head and face covers aka hijabs was now so fastly replaced by mass and compulsory use of face masks.

    There’s a lesson in it anyway and what everyone potentially exposed to viral epidemics should know, if for real, cover your head please 🙏

    Your eyes are very small compared to the rest of your head, especially if you have hair( but also if you don’t).
    The “hair net” multiplies the space where anything tiny can be caught most easily. If having to go to any public or dusted places ever in my life I always end up washing my hair after coming back.
    Of course your hair touch your face and carry all the dust till washed out thoroughly.

    So if there’s a danger of contamination, use your caps, hats, scarves and hoodies and wash your hair each time after coming back from outside.

    They’re quite fine to be lost and regrow naturally, there’s nothing to be sorry about rather than carrying the dust to your clean homes.


    To get contaminated through eyes is actually not that easy( think of venom spitting cobra) if you maintain decent social distances.
    Don’t try to prove yourself silly and put your face close to anything.



    I’ve seen couple of travellers around recently who “can’t bear the injustice” and instinctively bump to and around people as they always did, with dirty hands and bag packs in sort of teenage revolt.

    Feels weird as if some people never received proper social upbringing, such as waiting till other people pass on at the doors or maintaining proper social distance.

    There is this overall phenomenon of uncontrolled energy of humans coming to obvious one way or another, it’s just more visible now. Some people seem to need to constantly “have it” with others.
    When they can’t it offends them.

    One would tell them to go back to their mothers and kindergartens but they’re mostly people in their 40s, 50s, 60s, even older with big bulky bodies who just behave as if they were “little kids”.

    I think that face mask is actually short term solution, should be put on in target situations, certainly not to be worn all day.

    Silk scarves are actually quite perfect as well and can be washed.



    🙏🌸🙏

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    This 8 minute video by James Corbett makes the simple point that there's all the difference in the world between someone personally choosing to self-isolate (or wear a mask) — and being legally obliged to do so.


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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    This particular argument is a fundamental one. In the name of the sick and infirm we are to halt our normal lives for the foreseeable future. Yet we don't stop driving cars - the number one killer in the world. We continue to pollute our environment - and that kills many many more but that don't stop us.

    In the climate of sensationalism, a single, solitary cloud in the sky causes news stories of perfect storms and storms of the century! Anything is fair game so long as the ratings continue to climb.

    What is the difference between forcing me to carry insurance to drive my car, a risk I am willing to take without a monetary investment (especially the inflated prices of an industry protected by law and sanctioned to police themselves and act honorably), and forcing me to wear a mask and stay at home? It is just a sliding scale of injustice and an insult to the right to self-determination. I do not get sick either but I have had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars into the common pot, when of course were it private the cost would be much lower, especially since I never need to avail myself of it.

    So to be forced to put our lives on hold, and hold the sick and infirm above our own selfish needs, is just another step on the path to total domination and the capitulation of our god-given rights.

    This is the exact same argument for vaccines. Forcing me to take the risk of adverse reactions to a drug that is worse than the disease in order to alleviate the symptoms of the most vulnerable is not only immoral and illogical, it is down-right insane.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    What an excellent Ministry of Truth script learner and repeater you are Tam.
    You have done a wonderful job memorizing the propaganda and I assume will be the first in line for the toxic vaccine to do your duty.
    Good for you. You will fully deserve the consequences both in your mind and body.
    Mod note from Bill:

    Man alive, you can be a nasty piece of work sometimes. That vicious, unnecessary post should really be deleted, but I'm leaving it here because I want everyone here to read it.
    I am incredibly disappointed to see this comment Bill. I see PA is becoming infected like the rest of the world now. And, no, not by corona virus. By ignorance. Tam’s rant was so full of propaganda bulls**t I don’t know where to start. Waves was spot on in the response. There is ample evidence to destroy Tam’s two biggest points. One, masks do NOTHING to stop the spread of the virus. It spreads, peaks and declines whether you wear masks or don’t, isolate or don’t, lockdown or don’t, twist or untwist your panties. Two, and this was the biggest of Tam’s PROVEN LIES, this is NOT more virulent than the seasonal flu. This is the LIE that started this lunatic panic and all the data coming in now supports that corona virus is absolutely not more dangerous. The virus is not a hoax but the panic and destruction from it will soon be recognized as a false flag like 9/11 but on a scale never before seen. If you’re not already seeing the data proving this you are simply not paying attention to good sources. I expect better from you Bill.

    Matt

    [edit: and btw, thanks for leaving waves’ post, otherwise I wouldn’t have seen at least one other person on here understands what is going on]
    Last edited by mpennery; 22nd April 2020 at 11:02.
    Fear is simply a consequence of a lack of information.

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    United States Avalon Member Ratszinger's Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by mpennery (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    What an excellent Ministry of Truth script learner and repeater you are Tam.
    You have done a wonderful job memorizing the propaganda and I assume will be the first in line for the toxic vaccine to do your duty.
    Good for you. You will fully deserve the consequences both in your mind and body.
    Mod note from Bill:

    Man alive, you can be a nasty piece of work sometimes. That vicious, unnecessary post should really be deleted, but I'm leaving it here because I want everyone here to read it.
    I am incredibly disappointed to see this comment Bill. I see PA is becoming infected like the rest of the world now. And, no, not by corona virus. By ignorance. Tam’s rant was so full of propaganda bulls**t I don’t know where to start. Waves was spot on in the response. There is ample evidence to destroy Tam’s two biggest points. One, masks do NOTHING to stop the spread of the virus. It spreads, peaks and declines whether you wear masks or don’t, isolate or don’t, lockdown or don’t, twist or untwist your panties. Two, and this was the biggest of Tam’s PROVEN LIES, this is NOT more virulent than the seasonal flu. This is the LIE that started this lunatic panic and all the data coming in now supports that corona virus is absolutely not more dangerous. The virus is not a hoax but the panic and destruction from it will soon be recognized as a false flag like 9/11 but on a scale never before seen. If you’re not already seeing the data proving this you are simply not paying attention to good sources. I expect better from you Bill.

    Matt

    [edit: and btw, thanks for leaving waves’ post, otherwise I wouldn’t have seen at least one other person on here understands what is going on]
    Where are you getting your numbers and data from? Fox has the source info from WHO, CDC, ECDC, and NHC and they say total cases USA 823,257 and 44,805 have died which equates to 5.45% death rate! So what to you is a good source? The death toll from this, if we are to believe the numbers presented, has doubled in a week. I don't know where to check but I don't recall hearing about that happening with regular flu.
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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  25. Link to Post #33
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Quote Posted by mpennery (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    What an excellent Ministry of Truth script learner and repeater you are Tam.
    You have done a wonderful job memorizing the propaganda and I assume will be the first in line for the toxic vaccine to do your duty.
    Good for you. You will fully deserve the consequences both in your mind and body.
    Mod note from Bill:

    Man alive, you can be a nasty piece of work sometimes. That vicious, unnecessary post should really be deleted, but I'm leaving it here because I want everyone here to read it.
    I am incredibly disappointed to see this comment Bill. I see PA is becoming infected like the rest of the world now. And, no, not by corona virus. By ignorance. Tam’s rant was so full of propaganda bulls**t I don’t know where to start. Waves was spot on in the response. There is ample evidence to destroy Tam’s two biggest points. One, masks do NOTHING to stop the spread of the virus. It spreads, peaks and declines whether you wear masks or don’t, isolate or don’t, lockdown or don’t, twist or untwist your panties. Two, and this was the biggest of Tam’s PROVEN LIES, this is NOT more virulent than the seasonal flu. This is the LIE that started this lunatic panic and all the data coming in now supports that corona virus is absolutely not more dangerous. The virus is not a hoax but the panic and destruction from it will soon be recognized as a false flag like 9/11 but on a scale never before seen. If you’re not already seeing the data proving this you are simply not paying attention to good sources. I expect better from you Bill.

    Matt
    Okay, cool down!

    Masks protect others if one is (or may be) infectious oneself. That's why surgeons and dentists wear them — not to protect themselves, but to protect their patients.

    Tam is worried she has the virus (she has many of the symptoms), but like many in the US, she hasn't been tested.

    You see, waves could have made her point in any other way. But she chose not to. It was needlessly vicious. (Vicious is exactly the right word to use.)

    Read it again and then put yourself in Tam's position. I wonder how she felt when she read that.

    The point about obedience to authority can be made (and has rightly been made in many posts on the forum, with which I agree) without launching into an unpleasant personal attack on another member.

    Many of waves' posts are very aggressive, and always have been. I can say that straight, because they simply are. I'm not being unfair or exaggerating here. Just read them.
    (Ironically, I defended her many times against Paul, who strongly wanted her unsubscribed about a year and a half ago. My disagreement with Paul about that was one of the many straws-on-the-camel's-back reasons to his eventually leaving the forum.)
    Here's the issue. We don't need to be like that to debate interesting points. (And the mask issue is interesting, and worth discussing.) This isn't reddit, or 4chan, or a bunch of snarky YouTube comments all in a chain. We should be proud of the way we conduct ourselves here.

    I know many members are on edge at the moment — and understandably so — but things are slipping a little on some threads. (There are quite a few threads I don't even read any more, so I genuinely have no idea what other mudfights may have been taking place.)

    Back to masks. In the Czech republic, where the citizens decided for themselves to all wear masks, the Covid-19 R0 has been brought down to 0.8 for the last week. As best I know, and although it's early days yet, that's the first country where that's happened.

    The real issue here is whether mask-wearing (and "social distancing") is enforced or not. Not what one chooses to do of one's own sovereign free will. That's the point James Corbett was making in the short video I posted above.

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 22nd April 2020 at 11:29.

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Two years ago I read Casanova’s memoirs and how, if they wanted to go through the city without someone noticing them (in their adultery), they’d put on face masks. And I thought, how cool would that be if that became vogue again. So I guess my dream came true in a distorted fashion, yet it’s a possibility to take up a role in this weird act of the human drama. (And have some fun with it)

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    I do wear a face mask but only when I go out. Contrary to popular belief here they do prevent the spread of disease and are highly effective in reducing the number of feet a sneeze or a cough can go out away from the person doing the sneezing or coughing for example! Masks prevent people accidentally spitting out away from the body and they also prevent one from touching parts of the face, nose and mouth, all areas highly open and prone to being entry points and since it's many times the fingers doing the contaminating and not the breathing yes the masks do prevent the spread of disease! DO NOT let anyone tell you otherwise! That is my two cents!
    The genius consistently stands out from the masses in that he unconsciously anticipates truths of which the population as a whole only later becomes conscious! Speech-circa 1937

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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    I know this thread is about masks. I also agree they can help contain the spread, although the virus is hardy and can remain intact in the air and solid surfaces, so the air is already contaminated in common areas regardless. Best to keep the mucus secretions up if you know how.

    The virus threatens those we love, I am personally affected too. I would rather err on the side of caution for selfish reasons. But this has gone too far. Do not over-sell me with propaganda. Do not try and convince me that the world suddenly cares about its citizens, especially a mere .01%. This is a power move and we had better decide now which future we wish to usher in with our decisions today.

    If we care so much about people let's tackle the big killers and leave the small stuff to sort itself out. Let's just all stay indoors forever - I'm sure the feds can send us all money to order online indefinitely...

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    United States Avalon Member mpennery's Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Cool down? We’re in the start of the mother of all false flags, the global economy is being destroyed for a common cold virus that can be beaten with items from your own kitchen, millions are out of work and suffering, our God given freedoms are being eliminated and you want me to be calm?

    I’m on my way to work so I have just a couple minutes. I have dozens and dozens of links to share but will just do a couple. The MSM is ignoring all doctors and scientists who agree our response is ridiculous.


    Fauci, New England Journal of Medicine, March 26, “Covid-19 — Navigating the Uncharted”:

    “If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968)…”

    Majority of hospitals are empty and laying off staff.

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/...erers-prevail/

    https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/...navirus-panic/

    https://www.redstate.com/streiff/202...hould-do-next/

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gAtKnc...ature=youtu.be

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WGbYHJcMbz8

    https://www.brasscheck.com/video/wha...s/?omhide=true

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/i...no-difference/

    I have dozens more...

    Who funds the WHO?
    Who funds the CDC?
    Is any of MSM reliable for info?
    Fear is simply a consequence of a lack of information.

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    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    It’s the New Moon day/night today, dear friends. The energy is low everywhere, we all are plum tired of it after a month of quarantine. Here in India you have to “play by the rules” no matter how absurd it feels.
    No matter what you think and how much you disagree unless you’re so great to suggest something better as a scientist.
    The government has several Nobel laureates on the advisory panel who are independent thinkers, not brainwashed individuals and conspiracy theorists.

    Covid 19 is suspected bioweapon and treated accordingly. Any biological war, real or unreal is the worst crime against humanity because the enemy is invisible.
    If you can not see it it does not mean it does not exist.

    Speaking of “sick and infirm”, it’s all of us Ernie. It’s also the medical staff dying. It’s people on duty getting infected. If by any chance any children die( not so far), the people who now cry scam will start throwing stones at the parliament building.


    Resistance IS futile in this case, sorry to say that. It’s watching and waiting game and the LEAST thing to do is pull out the face mask and don’t cough at your fellow citizens.


    People as I know them are hard core nuts including leaders of every country and forum who will kill each other for no matter what convictions they once got.

    They don’t care about evolution. They don’t believe yet in evolution quite you still don’t “believe” in viruses.


    I took 2 minutes to get veggies today morning when the nicest sweetest boy selling them was so upset he started to throw fit type “hurry, don’t waste my time”.
    Everybody is upset. Don’t take yourself too seriously (or you die) 🤣

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    United States Moderator Sarah Rainsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    I wear a mask. I interact fine with other people. My freedom is not infringed on by wearing a mask.

    Around here, about 75% of people out wear masks of some kind and that number seems to be growing. It has not stopped people from talking or paying each other compliments (or arguing for that matter). In fact, if anything the 6' rule and social distancing has reminded people of basics like holding the door for each other and the need for kindness.

    As far as the attitude of they don't do any good or contribute to some power over you, anyone with a lick of sense knows that masks absolutely do help to stop the spread of contagious diseases! You don't even have to be a virologist. It's common sense, right up there with washing your hands. Is it fool proof? No. Does is help. YES

    We are in the middle of a pandemic. People. are. dying. Maybe they would've died later rather than sooner. Maybe the numbers are wrong. SO WHAT?! People are still dying from a contagious disease, and you covering your mouth is a small thing that you can do to help.

    I'm a little tired of people crying about having to wear a mask. I live in a free society, which does not mean that I get to do whatever I want. It means that I have freedom, but I must also contribute to the health and well-being of others--that's the society part. If you don't want to live in a society, with other people, where people actually work together... then go live on a deserted island! Having to cover your face during a pandemic is nothing to whine about.

    If you want to whine about losing freedoms, go find something worth whining about. Wearing a mask is not it.
    The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air...
    Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.

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    United States Moderator Sarah Rainsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: The face mask discussion

    Another reason to wear a mask: for various reasons both related to and unrelated to COVID19, medical professionals are finding PPEs of all types to be in very short supply.

    The medical professionals are as vulnerable as--or more so--than the elderly or immune-compromised. Everyone that can help them, should help them. They are there working, risking their health and their families to support your community. Wearing a mask when out helps to keep people out of the hospital, not just COVID, but for other contagions as well.

    Since the medical profession has this shortage of supplies, that alone is enough reason for everyone to be covering their face while out. Lowering the burden on medical providers should be on everyone's must-do list, and at the top of that list is wearing a mask.
    The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air...
    Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.

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