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    Russian Federation Avalon Member Sasha Alisa's Avatar
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    Default Victory Day

    Hi, i had written a big opening post about V day but decided to throw it away entirely, because of following reasons:

    Today i was reading stuff on the web, and since i have been using mostly American news sites, social media and forums, i got to see something i didn't realized way before. And i just could not help but to throw any good feelings away, at least for today, i see comments such as:

    - Yeah Russia did lose a lot of people on ww2, but Stalin killed most of them!
    - If it wasn't for the US, the USSR and the world would have lost the war
    - Thanks for the atomic bombs we won the world, time to celebrate!
    - A picture of the moment Japans surrendered to the US, saying "This is the day we freed the world from facism, blah blah blah!"
    - A picture of American soldiers and American tanks and plenty other things and then one single picture of a Russian tank with no comment at all LMFAO!
    - Someone saying "we freed the world before, we should do it again with China and Russia"
    - Someone posted a picture of the Statue of Liberty and said "Your welcome world"

    Well anyone who actually knows history will understand, i guess. And why it's only 'some' countries that have people posting such stupid ignorant things?

    I'm very proud of the real history, and as every single year since i can remember and became aware, i will honor my grand father and his friends, who actually died along with million more to actually win the war. This ridiculous reinterpretation of history and the ignorance of some people will not stop me from feeling respect and honor for the real heroes, from whatever country they were born from

    If the Americans who fought and wong along side Russia and the UK and everyone else were alive today, they would probably get red faced in anger at the stupidity of current American education about the real history. It makes a diservice to them, because they had honor, and what happened to that? No chivarly at all left in the current US culture and people?

    Blyat indeed. I'm out

    /rant
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    Oh and another thing that i found ridiculous last year was this

    On the celebration of auschwitz liberation, i saw posts on imgur and other places, talking about how the US had liberated other concentration camps, and how much pain it caused and such, but no word about auschwitz and who freed that one camp. Instead, on the day that is supposed to give honor and pay respect to the victims of that hell, people posted about how the US had liberated other camps and how much good they were and such.

    I don't even know what to say anymore
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    The easiest way to evaluate who did the heavy lifting to beat Nazi Germany in 1943-1945 is to simply look at how much German effort went in to fight each of the main combatants. Even after D Day approximately 75% of Axis land resources went to the eastern front.

    If you throw in the air war, maybe settle for 2/3 against Russia, and 1/3 against the Western allies. Of that 1/3, it was roughly half USA and half Uk(and allies).

    The primary reason that the USA got involved in the European theatre was that if they had not, the UK could not have done D Day on its own, and therefore most of Europe would have fallen into Soviet hands.
    Last edited by Baby Steps; 10th May 2020 at 00:53.
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    Russian Federation Avalon Member Sasha Alisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    Quote Posted by Baby Steps (here)
    The easiest way to evaluate who did the heavy lifting to beat Nazi Germany in 1943-1945 is to simply look at how much German effort went in to fight each of the main combatants. Even after D Day approximately 75% of Axis land resources went to the eastern front.

    If you throw in the air war, maybe settle for 2/3 against Russia, and 1/3 against thr Western allies. Of that 1/3, it was roughly half USA and half Uk(and allies).

    The primary reason that the USA got involved in the European theatre was that if they had not, the UK could not have done D Day on its own, and therefore most of Europe would have fallen into Soviet hands.
    The way i learned history is that mostly the UK/Russia won the war, and the US was just sitting around watching the dead count number grow high, it was only after they were attacked they got into it. And i even know that Mexico faked an attack on one/couple of their oil ships by German subs so they would have an excuse to enter the war and then provide oil and iron+ all other resources the US needed to get into the war, that was fake and some people died to achieve that

    But history is so convoluted in America's side it's impossible to talk facts anymore

    The USA got involved because of their political and power grabbing issues, mostly as you said, and then they faked it till they believed it all. The US did not care for all the people but their own, same as other countries, they only talked about it after the fact as if they did really care, but it was just a power grab taking advance of the weak moments of the UK/Russia after they were completely spent and wasted winning the war

    And NATO is a ridiculous thing, Russia asked to join and was refused, but Germany is around LMFAO! NATO was built to provide a way for the US to gain time if Russia would decide to take over. All countries in NATO are cannon fodder for the US, and that's the truth LOL. That they refuse to see it as it is doesn't matter at all, NATO is just a buffer so Russia/China gets spent going through those countries while the US prepares to win, same as it happened back in WW2 with the US just watching the war go on until they saw who was going to win/lose then they acted finally.

    And let's not talk about how "America" is also the name of the entire continent and not just the US, that's something i found so odd, but i already had that argument before and it went into me basically picking up some guy from his pants and landing him face down on the street's trash container..... I'm not that person anymore by the way, i'm cool now
    Last edited by Sasha Alisa; 9th May 2020 at 10:05.
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    Having said that, it is worth remembering how many resources poured from UK, USA, Canada to the Soviet Union, and we are all grateful.

    Speaking as a Western Euopean, I am very grateful that the USA chose to help Europe, life in western europe was generally better than Soviet eastern europe. The USA poured resources into reconstructing and stabilising western europe, this may have been enlightened self interest but still great.

    We see german social democracy as a great example for the whole world, and USA & UK played a large part in that.

    Could the war have been avoided? In many ways. More active and aggressive containment of Hitler in 1938 might have done it.

    Was the Pacific war necessary? No, Japans hand was forced by the oil embargo, and it is likely that the USA had foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbour attack , as they moved their carriers away, and left an array of WW1 old battleships to make a great sacrificial show.

    The elite/banking interests cemented control, huge debt accrued in war production, USA technological dominance established, the atom unleashed, The dollar dominant, and a sufficiently scary (soviet) adversary created.

    The whole thing worked out well for the elite covert agenda.
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    Russian Federation Avalon Member Sasha Alisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    Quote Posted by Baby Steps (here)
    Having said that, it is worth remembering how many resources poured from UK, USA, Canada to the Soviet Union, and we are all grateful.

    Speaking as a Western Euopean, I am very grateful that the USA chose to help Europe, life in western europe was generally better than Soviet eastern europe. The USA poured resources into reconstructing and stabilising western europe, this may have been enlightened self interest but still great.

    We see german social democracy as a great example for the whole world, and USA & UK played a large part in that.

    Could the war have been avoided? In many ways. More active and aggressive containment of Hitler in 1938 might have done it.

    Was the Pacific war necessary? No, Japans hand was forced by the oil embargo, and it is likely that the USA had foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbour attack , as they moved their carriers away, and left an array of WW1 old battleships to make a great sacrificial show.

    The elite/banking interests cemented control, huge debt accrued in war production, USA technological dominance established, the atom unleashed, The dollar dominant, and a sufficiently scary (soviet) adversary created.

    The whole thing worked out well for the elite covert agenda.
    Quote Speaking as a Western Euopean, I am very grateful that the USA chose to help Europe, life in western europe was generally better than Soviet eastern europe.
    Could have been better if the US had not proved it wanted to be the "enemy" and push everyone against Russia, imagine the gigantic amount of resources and intel required to keep things going forward safetly, what if no one had become "the enemy" so you would not had to spend yourself out and go all freak control in an attempt to keep things alive? The way you say it is just the US version of it

    Think about why the US rejected Russia from NATO after the application to be a member was sent, it could have solved tons of issues, but no sir, we need to be enemies, NATO was created as an excuse to run away from you. Let's not ignore that part if history because it was very real. If you have a friend who tells you to f*k off, would you still act normally when you see it around, or what would you do if you see your ex-friend constantly around/outside your house, after he told you he didn't like you at all?

    Quote We see german social democracy as a great example for the whole world, and USA & UK played a large part in that.
    However that's just all not really true as it is talked about, take US for example, "democracy"? or a Republic, they talk a lot about "democracy" but show very little of it. We could go into why a "democratic" country like Germany goes and supports terrorists in other country to remove the elected government because another country wishes so due to personal interests. Is that a way of democracy? Or pure hipocrisy?

    If there wasn't that 'butt hurtting like' thing going on, it could be just like this with the US, but they don't want to!! Why are US people always figthing to be "the best" but not in real life but only through words and just that?



    We know now that the bombs were dropped despite the war being already won, and there was no need, it was mass murder with the intent to position themselves as the greatest world power, that's all

    If you want to know a couple interesting things, look into where the atomic bomb research material that Mexico gave away went to, look into that if you are interested xi xi, it's in the middle east by the way. And second look into where the arms and bombs that ex-soviet countries had after the split went into, where are the bombs? Have you heard about were they went?

    On that video, that's Kalinka and Cielito lindo, i was going to open another thread because i learned something very funny about how the US stopped Mexico from buying Mig jets a few years ago but i think i rather not, it got tiredsome and i don't think anyone cares anymore

    Mexico and Russia are very very similar in culture, and in relationship very strong as well, but the US has interfered badly in the past, avoiding things like buying planes and other aspects of the international relationship. I may post about it later on, but today i got so frustrated i decided it was too wasteful for me to spend time on that thing
    Last edited by Sasha Alisa; 9th May 2020 at 11:25.
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    Some Ukranian bombs may have ended up with Iran (i have two sources)

    Its so great to get a more Russian perspective!!

    The industry of 'enemy manufacture' is a key component of the process of control. It justifies tyranny. Fear used. The real war is the 1% against the 99%.
    Last edited by Baby Steps; 9th May 2020 at 13:44.
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    This sort of thing started way, way back with the 'Holy crusades' and King Richard the Lion heart.
    He/they freed all the captives and then slaughtered them because he could't look after them while he wen't on with his real reasons for being out there o.0

    As a young kid he was an hero, because of false history feed to me at school and Hollywood films.
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    Its also like the American hero 'G Ford' of the motorcar fame, he was given medals for his war time production efforts, while most did not know he was mass supplying the German 'Luftwaffe' with aeroplane engines o.0
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    Here's an interesting related article:

    Source: https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-emb...chwitz/264527/

    "The incorrect statement was immediately met with scorn online from those who felt this was another example of Soviet erasure and an insult to the enormous sacrifice the U.S.S.R. made to defeat fascism in Europe. Users replied with pictures of Red Army troops liberating the camp. Those same people would likely be unimpressed at the news that Wikipedia has been removing those same pictures, a fact discovered by Lithuanian journalist Vladimir Vodo. While the encyclopedia’s administrators argued that they might not technically be in the public domain, erasing images of the Russian liberation of Auschwitz on Holocaust Memorial Day is not an optically wise move.

    The Soviet Union is responsible for killing about four of every five Nazis during the conflict and suffered around 95 percent of all Allied Army casualties. The scale of their loss was enormous; the current Russian government estimates the Soviet losses at 26.6 million dead – around sixty-three times the total American sacrifice in both Europe and the Pacific. Even comparatively tiny states like Latvia and Lithuania lost a similar number of people as the entire United States.
    "
    And from this article, here concerning VE Day:
    "While many corporations are keen for the day to be over, other groups want the public to remember their particular version of events. The U.K. Foreign Office, for example, released a video where Russia’s role in bringing about the end of the war was barely to be seen. NATO’s Joint Force Commander in Naples, Admiral James Foggo, also described the brave Allied forces engaged in combat in North Africa, Normandy and Italy, but appeared to make a point of not mentioning any of the far larger battles that raged on the Eastern Front, between Soviet and Axis forces. Meanwhile, NATO-linked think tank the Atlantic Council used the occasion to accuse Putin of hijacking V-E Day to push Russian aggression in Eastern Europe.

    The Soviet Union comprised 80 percent of German casualties, with the current Russian government estimating their own total losses at 26.6 million people.

    In contrast, the U.S. did not enter the European area in any serious numbers until well after the tide had been turned, the Soviets driving Axis forces back hundreds of miles out of Russia and Ukraine by 1944. However, decades of propaganda have got people to forget these inconvenient facts; by 2015, only 11 percent of Americans and 15 percent of Britons answered the U.S.S.R. when asked which country contributed most to the defeat of Hitler."
    Outside of the brainwashed and manipulative education systems we've grown up with, and the relentless drumbeat of that propaganda, those of us who have studied more reliable sources to the true history of these events have drawn the conclusion, self evident from those studies, as to who the real victors were, and the prevailing ideology.
    Last edited by Tintin; 9th May 2020 at 13:52.
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    It was only about the money and having an escape goat and for these reasons million of people should be sacrificed as always before them and even now in some places around the globe. So,two words:money and sacrifice...how many of us sacrificed something to pay bank loans/credits/leasing?

    Every payed bank rate means winning a battle until the final WAR VICTORY.



    8 American Companies That Worked with the Nazis During World War II

    Devil’s Bargain: Germany and Russia Before WWII
    "Your planet is forbidden for an open visit - extremely aggressive social environment,despite almost perfect climatic conditions.Almost 4 billion violent deaths for the last 5000 years and about 15000 major military conflicts in the same period."

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    Default Re: Victory Day

    Thanks for your above post EFO
    I have known those facts and forgotten many, many more

    From my lowly, loving common human being point of view, the world is disgusting or rather those relative few running it.
    Utterly disgusting sociopaths/psychopaths power hungry greedy bastards.

    Unfortunately as long as any of them are in place the world will remain backward and in pain.

    (I realise not all sociopaths/psychopaths are to blame, some actually do good in this world)
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    The USSR suffered horrendous losses in WW2. I know that almost every Russian family lost most of their adult men in that conflict. The tide turned in that conflict with three major events:

    a) the Germans were on the outskirts of Moscow and Stalin was about to move the government east of the Urals, the Stalin got inspired to re-open Russian churches. The German advance was halted.

    b) the big tank battles in the Ukraine got bogged down in the mud and the Soviets produced some huge victories, with tens of thousands of prisoners taken.

    c) Another major event in the war was the victory by Britain over the luftwaffe.

    I believe most of this happened in 1941, the year the USA joined the battle. You see the banksters were holding up congressional approval (people like Prescott Bush who was a Nazi funder) so the rumor has Roosevelt let pearl harbor happen to force public support. Even then, Germany declared war on the usa, not vice versa.

    Another thing to remember that without a second front in Europe, would the outcome have been the same?

    Also, remember what destroyed most of Germany's and Japan's industrial strength, those flying fortresses, the b-17s and B-29s All surface industry was annihilated making the axis war machine unresourced.

    Yes, the Soviets paid a terrible price in that conflict, but the American contribution was essential.

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    Default Re: Victory Day

    Quote Posted by EFO (here)
    It was only about the money and having an escape goat and for these reasons million of people should be sacrificed as always before them and even now in some places around the globe. So,two words:money and sacrifice...how many of us sacrificed something to pay bank loans/credits/leasing?

    Every payed bank rate means winning a battle until the final WAR VICTORY.



    8 American Companies That Worked with the Nazis During World War II

    Devil’s Bargain: Germany and Russia Before WWII
    Another thing i've seen a lot mentioned lately is the "non aggression pact" between Russia and Germany right before the war started, but no mention of the context in which it happened. Here's a less biased look at the events, which also includes the real context in which all that stuff happened

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...reed-pact.html
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    Let's not forget Stalingrad too, despite massive bombardment the attack was defeated. If I remember correctly, had the attack had succeeded, it would have given the Germans access to the oil fields.

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    Default Re: Victory Day

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    The USSR suffered horrendous losses in WW2. I know that almost every Russian family lost most of their adult men in that conflict. The tide turned in that conflict with three major events:

    a) the Germans were on the outskirts of Moscow and Stalin was about to move the government east of the Urals, the Stalin got inspired to re-open Russian churches. The German advance was halted.

    b) the big tank battles in the Ukraine got bogged down in the mud and the Soviets produced some huge victories, with tens of thousands of prisoners taken.

    c) Another major event in the war was the victory by Britain over the luftwaffe.

    I believe most of this happened in 1941, the year the USA joined the battle. You see the banksters were holding up congressional approval (people like Prescott Bush who was a Nazi funder) so the rumor has Roosevelt let pearl harbor happen to force public support.
    Quote Even then, Germany declared war on the usa, not vice versa.
    It was Japan, not Germany who attacked Pearl Harbor, and as it has been proven by history, there were certain events that lead to think it was allowed to happen

    You can't also ignore the fact that Mexico confiscated an Italian ship, then turned it into a Mexican ship which was conveniently sinked as soon as it was needed for Mexico to join the war, so that there would be an excuse to send all the minerals, oil and other resources the US needed, including tons and tons of people to take care of growing the food while the US laber force was away

    https://www.history.com/news/mexico-...ng-involvement

    Quote Then came Japan’s surprise attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, which brought the war to the Western Hemisphere for the first time. Mexico cut diplomatic ties with Japan on December 9, 1941; it broke with Germany and Italy by December 11. In January 1942, at the Conference of Foreign Ministers held in Rio Janeiro, Brazil, Mexico’s delegation argued forcefully that all the nations of the Western Hemisphere must band together in mutual cooperation and defense.

    That May, German U-boats sank two Mexican oil tankers in the Gulf of Mexico. Germany refused to apologize or compensate Mexico, and on June 1, 1942, President Manuel Ávila Camacho issued a formal declaration of war against the Axis Powers. U.S. Secretary of State Cordell Hull celebrated Mexico’s entry into the war on the Allied side as “further evidence that the free nations of the world will never submit to the heel of Axis aggression.”
    https://www.thoughtco.com/mexican-in...ar-two-2136644
    https://www.britannica.com/place/Mex...War-II-1941-45

    All of that is ignored because "America" but is not that easy, let's see the facts for what they are, facts. And the Fact is that the US takes credit for things other countried did, do you know who else fought the war other than UK/Russia/US?, there were plently more but they get no mention on the big picture, even though they should


    Quote Yes, the Soviets paid a terrible price in that conflict, but the American contribution was essential.
    Not really no, The US depended on a lot of other countries for the resources that ended up being distributed as "American Help", but truly were the contribution of plenty other countries, just channeled through the US. It just happens that the Americans took the lead in distributing that help, under a single banner, but it wasn't "their help" at all, in fact the only reason the US managed to make it through was because of the help of those "never mentioned" countries that were erased from the records later on

    The view of history you talk about, is the same one that claims the US made it through the war all on its own, and that their contribution was a major player in winning the war, but is not that simple, as proven above on the Mexico link

    What if Mexico had sided with Germany? The US would have been without those resources and even worse. Ask around if anyone knows about this aspect of the war, i can bet mostly no one will have a clue
    Last edited by Sasha Alisa; 10th May 2020 at 09:16.
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    I believe these couple articles may explain better than my third hand english, about what i felt and wanted to say

    Quote For many Russians, Victory Day isn’t about politics or patriotism
    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/488189-russ...rsonal-memory/


    Quote Every year, I see these tweets and wonder if these people realize that Russia lost over 25 million lives in World War II, so, yes it’s still kind-of a big deal. I wonder if they know about the Leningrad Blockade, and all of the children who drove the dead out in sleighs past corpses with carved-out buttocks. I wonder if they know how long it took the country to rebuild, and how many generations continued to suffer from it. And I wonder why everything has to be about Putin all of the time, and why they don’t recognize that these are real people who are still dealing with real pain.
    Very odd, really, that a Russian-American got to say exactly this, one day after i posted my thread, it looks like i was dumb to think it was just my personal feeling and perception, this has been going on for way longer than i thought

    Quote My mother, who is neither an angry nor a political person, once flew into a hurt rage when she read the chapter in my elementary school textbook on World War II, which she said basically summed up the country’s sacrifices as “and Russia helped a bit.
    Quote “I’m not asking people to like Russia or approve of the government,” my friend, Sveta, 32, who lives in St Petersburg, said. “I’m not even asking people to say the Soviet army was great. I just want the enormous sacrifices that our grandparents made to be acknowledged. And maybe it’s all ‘propaganda,’ but every country has ‘propaganda.’ It doesn’t make my grandfather diving under a Nazi tank to save lives any less true.

    Quote 27 million reasons why we must remember Victory Day & stand up to attempts at rewriting history
    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/488205-vict...soviet-history
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    Quote Posted by HikerChick (here)
    Let's not forget Stalingrad too, despite massive bombardment the attack was defeated. If I remember correctly, had the attack had succeeded, it would have given the Germans access to the oil fields.
    Not direclty but yes, eventually going in that direction they would have gained access to oil fields. Legally they had been leased to Germany i think, before the war, so it was a think from Germany like "we own those fields" and that's why they did not attack them in any way, they needed them and they actually had invested into them before. That's as much as i can remember reading about it But i know the Germans were trying to regain control of those fields, so they avoided destroying them, which eventually helped in turning things around and against the Germans LMAO
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    Quote Posted by Justplain (here)
    The USSR suffered horrendous losses in WW2. I know that almost every Russian family lost most of their adult men in that conflict. The tide turned in that conflict with three major events:

    a) the Germans were on the outskirts of Moscow and Stalin was about to move the government east of the Urals, the Stalin got inspired to re-open Russian churches. The German advance was halted.

    b) the big tank battles in the Ukraine got bogged down in the mud and the Soviets produced some huge victories, with tens of thousands of prisoners taken.

    c) Another major event in the war was the victory by Britain over the luftwaffe.

    I believe most of this happened in 1941, the year the USA joined the battle. You see the banksters were holding up congressional approval (people like Prescott Bush who was a Nazi funder) so the rumor has Roosevelt let pearl harbor happen to force public support. Even then, Germany declared war on the usa, not vice versa.

    Another thing to remember that without a second front in Europe, would the outcome have been the same?

    Also, remember what destroyed most of Germany's and Japan's industrial strength, those flying fortresses, the b-17s and B-29s All surface industry was annihilated making the axis war machine unresourced.

    Yes, the Soviets paid a terrible price in that conflict, but the American contribution was essential.
    Here you go, officially just so you guys don't think about some confusion

    United States officially REWROTE history this V-day when it IGNORED Soviet Union's role in defeating Nazism
    https://www.rt.com/rtmobile/posts/488315/html?
    dark_mode=0&font_scale=0.500000&indent_left=5&inde nt_right=5&indent_top=5&hide=



    https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/statu...524132865?s=20



    That's beautiful, and pure and honest!!!!
    Last edited by Sasha Alisa; 10th May 2020 at 16:37.
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    Default Re: Victory Day

    Hi Masha, I and anyone who is honest about the situation, realize that the victory in WW2 was in large part due to the incredible price the soviet people paid. It is totally unfair, and quite frankly incompetent, for someone assessing the outcome of that conflict not to understand this.

    And, yes, not allowing Russia to be atleast an associate member of NATO was also incompetent on NATO's part. This world should be disarming in the post cold war era, but instead the same old war mongers have control of public policy in the USA, China and Russia. Time to grow up folks!

    Now, in the name of fairness, and ignoring idiots who don't give credit where credit is due, we need to give the USA credit for its contributions in ww2 as well. I know having grown up in a former British colony, that the situation was very bleak for Britain in 1939 ± 40, especially after Dunkirk. The USA kept supplying Britain during those bleak days with essential war products and food. Britain might not have made it without it.

    Then, in the Pacific war against Japan, the USA was fundamentally on its own, and fought that war well against a tenacious opponent.

    And as I said in a previous post, the US air power is what finished off both Germany and Japan.

    Certainly, if Germany had not attacked the Soviets, Britain likely would have fallen. In that scenario, I can't see that peace would have lasted long betweent Germany and the USSR, and what would have been the outcome?

    I think the fair assessment here is that the allies all needed each other to win WW2, and thank God they did work together because I doubt civilization would have survived if they hadn't. Look at what a harm the Project Paperclip Nazis have caused.

    So, Masha, please try to forgive the embiciles who ignore the true facts of Victory Day. The truth is we needed everybody on board to win that fight, and thankfully we did.

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