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Thread: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

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    Aaland Avalon Member Agape's Avatar
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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Quote Posted by Luke Holiday (here)
    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    New charges for all 4 officers

    Finally. The other 3 attending officers, Thomas Lane, Alexandr Kueng and Tou Thao charged with aiding and abetting second-degree “taking of life”.

    Can foresee how this will unravel whole new conspiracy theory because the poor dears “did not know what they were doing”.

    Call Jesus on 0.0000000000001 in case that’s not true.


    Pardon my trespasses


    💧
    🍵

    You may be right, one thing you might consider: is that often in these situations the senior officer will take charge and dictate the course of action. - ( Not saying it is right - just looking at it from both sides and remembering they have families as well)

    Blessings Luke

    Yes, that’s completely correct. It’s a sad truth not a sarcasm. My heart goes out to all those people 🐳 much sadness.

    People also turn simply paralysed witnessing the act performed in front of their eyes, by senior in charge.

    That’s how all of this disgusting scene of situation is more risky for being exposed and publicised knowingly or not, it wakes more violence and greater desire in those for even bigger violence. It rises global alerts.

    Life matters. Lives matter. Intelligent life matters.


    If there’s few people on the top and their kids who keep looking to mirrors all life just to admire them-selves it makes me cry really


    💧


    They have the right to defend themselves in the court, will be given whole battery of psychological tests and may explain their relationship to their superior.
    It points to the direction of that person being quite sadistic ( or quite setup but sadistic in either case).

    That’s how killing or trying to kill people is never a good idea.

    It’s what I told my friends as well, just NOT A GOOD IDEA trying to go around people by tricks, never a good idea.
    Not a good idea to set up people on path of manipulation, not a good idea to kill. Not a humane idea, not worthy modern human thought.

    Setting whole chain of erroneous circumstances.
    Last edited by Agape; 4th June 2020 at 17:43.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Quote Posted by Bluegreen (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Right on cue, Obama is now starting to make 'presidential' speeches, the ones that Trump should be making. (Whatever you might think about either of them, Obama is a better orator, and often seems to have a better speechwriter.)
    Obama is the greatest actor who ever lived, and I say that without a trace of irony as well as an intimate knowledge of the theater.
    He was fully trained by an actor ... I can't recall who it was exactly, but the guy taught Obama to speak the way he does ... in the actors own style. Its a bit weird to see him talk because he sounds very much like Obama when he talks (as somewhat expected)

    EDIT: I think it was this guy ... his speaking style sound familiar?



    Anyway, back to topic ...
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    There was a video showing when Floyd resisted arrest and that's when he was put in the back of the police cruiser #320 after the events mentioned here:
    Quote Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
    The actual arrest where the "arrestors" are seen coming from across the street where the police car # 320 is parked on the other street and where the two officers are seen wearing body cams (black rectangular patch on right pocket and on chest) and where Floyd is seen being walked back without resistance to the # 320 car at the end of the video (video is now unavailable)
    But I couldn't find that video anymore. Floyd was in the back of the car #320 and then pulled out of it to end up on the ground with 4 officers holding him down.

    That's probably the reason why it took three days to charge these officers with manslaughter and the disappearance of that video but the circulation of the main one which allowed to lit the fuse to jump start the agenda.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    I have to wonder why the case of George Floyd exploded so quickly into the media, while the case of the shooting and murder of Ahmaud Arberry has taken over three months to unfold. There are new developments in the case, and of course, it is CNN that found the way to convert this into the most explosive headlines:

    Quote Ahmaud Arbery was hit with a truck before he died, and his killer allegedly used a racial slur, investigator testifies
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/us/mc...ery/index.html
    (CNN)William Bryan told investigators he heard Travis McMichael use a racial epithet after fatally shooting Ahmaud Arbery in Glynn County, a Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent testified Thursday during preliminary hearings.
    Bryan told police McMichael said "f***ing n***er" after three blasts from McMichael's shotgun left Arbery dead in February the streets of the Satilla Shores neighborhood, Assistant Special Agent in Charge Richard Dial said. Body camera footage also showed a Confederate flag sticker on the toolbox of McMichael's truck, Dial said.
    When I compare these two cases, the Arbery shooting is clearly the much bigger outrage because:
    • The Arbery shooting was clearly a racially motivated shooting. The shooters clearly targeted Arbery because he was a black man jogging through "their" neighborhood and aggressively targeted him first by hitting him with their car and them shooting him. Since they decided to take their guns with them when they drove, it was clearly a planned crime on their part.

    • It took 3 days to charge Chauvin and another 4 to charge the other officers. By comparison, it took 10 weeks to charge Gregory and Travis McMichael and 12 weeks to charge William Bryan, and that happened, in part, because Arberry's family had retained a lawyer.

    • Arbery fits the description of "innocent victim" much better than Floyd. Arbery was a friendly, well mannered college student. Floyd, meanwhile, had multiple convictions including robbery with a gun, was possibly passing counterfit bills at the time he was arrested and may have been high. This isn't to say that what happened to either one of them wasn't a complete outrage and totally undeserved, no matter what their backgrounds were.

    This should leave one to ask, why didn't the nation breakdown in late February and early March to protest against the wrongful death of Arbery and malfunction of the "justice" system and why is it doing it now in May and June?

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    "3. Pending a correction from experienced police officers: Based on this video and considering Mr. Chauvin's prior incidents, I now believe that a strong case can be made for Mr. Chauvin's conviction of involuntary manslaughter despite the toxicology report"

    be well

    Luke

    … Just wanted to further the discussion with:

    Then why does this all feel so orchestrated?

    Mr Floyd's family attorney stated in an interview: The case would not have been filed if it were not for the riots. I immediately thought- "And the riots would not have happened if not for media focused magnification."

    Could it be that the media has consciously hand picked this case to magnify and exploit in order to fulfill an agenda?

    Here is an article covering the yearly rate of police caused deaths in the US citing on average 3 per day: https://theconversation.com/police-k...w-study-100567.

    I certainly do not recall the MSM reporting on anywhere near that rate of occurance.

    My other thought is in regards to police training. I heard on a colbert report that the rates of police brutality skyrocketed after 9/11, My question is why? The answer has to be in the training.

    I found this article from 2012 focusing on police vs prison restraint techniques which is eerily germaine to this case. I have highlighted excerpts

    https://www.thebureauinvestigates.co...-that-can-kill

    Despite a body of research on the dangers of certain restraint holds, the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) says no restraint techniques are prohibited, as long as an officer can show the use of force was proportionate.

    According to the IPCC, between 1998 and 2009, there were 16 deaths in which restraint was a direct or contributory factor.

    Common law allows officers to use proportionate force to defend themselves or effect an arrest.’

    The current ACPO lead on restraint, Commander Simon Pountain, said: ‘Officers are required to make split-second decisions in difficult situations. Where an individual is violent and represents a danger to themselves and the public, the police are rightly expected to restrain them for their own safety and to protect other members of the public.

    ‘Foremost in officers’ minds is the safe resolution to volatile situations, not a medical diagnosis.'

    A technique which is sighted as a factor in so called ‘deaths in custody’ is what is known as ‘prone restraint’. It involves forcing a suspect face-down onto the floor, cuffing their hands behind their back and then putting pressure on their torso, shoulders and neck.

    For example, an officer may pin the suspect’s body to the floor with a knee on their back, and another may immobilise the suspect’s head by kneeling on their neck.

    In comparison, there have been only two deaths following restraint in the prison service in the last 15 years. Experts suggest this is because stricter guidelines on the use of prone restraint were introduced during the mid-1990s following a spate of restraint-related deaths in prisons.

    Prison service rules now state that ‘a prisoner must never [original emphasis] be kept in the prone position with their hands held behind their back in ratchet handcuffs’.

    The prison guidelines add: ‘Pressure should not be placed on the neck, especially around the angle of the jaw or windpipe. Pressure on the neck, particularly in the region below the angle of the jaw (carotid sinus) can disturb the nervous controls to the heart and lead to a sudden slowing or even stoppage of the heart’. (Please note this is where I have been proven wrong in prior posts on this thread - apologies to BR, Christian, and Autumn)


    Police training does raise awareness of the dangers of prone restraint, but it is less strictly worded than prison officer training. A 2004 Metropolitan Police review recommended learning from the approach of the prison service.

    The review stated: ‘Lessons can be learned from the Prison Service where team leaders are employed to direct restraint teams. [U][I][SIZE="3"]The role of the supervisor is to take immediate charge of the incident, monitor the health of the person being restrained and actively control the restraints being applied’.

    But Deborah Coles, director of Inquest, a charity that takes on cases involving deaths in custody, believes there are ‘fundamental problems’ in the effectiveness of police training in restraint.

    If someone puts you in a position where you can’t breathe, you’re going to struggle to get out of that position, which is wrongly being perceived as resisting"

    Referring to guidelines she said: ‘My fear is, and I do put this in the context of cuts to frontline services, that there is the ever-present risk of death and serious injury and that this is an issue that does require proper public and parliamentary attention as a matter of urgency.’


    Dr Parkes recently completed a Youth Justice Board-funded study on the dangers associated with sitting restraint techniques – thought to be some of the least dangerous restraint methods.

    He said: ‘In the cases in our research, we have used no extreme force, but in some cases have restricted their ability to breathe by up to 80%… That was done with very, very little force indeed.’

    ‘If someone puts you in a position where you can’t breathe, you’re going to struggle to get out of that position. One of the things that’s going to happen is the people restraining are going to perceive that as a renewed attempt to escape’, leading them to apply even more force.

    ‘In fact, if you were able to question the person, they would tell you ‘I wasn’t trying to escape, I just couldn’t breathe’.’





    So my question is who determines police training ciriculum regarding restraint techniques and why haven't they been modified?


    1. Is the prison system considered a "safer environment" for prison guards thus disallowing the prone restraint in favor of prisoner safety? or

    2. Do the officials controlling the police department training desire a more authoriatian, militant approach in order to serve an agenda of control?

    3. David Icke talks about favorable police acceptance of narcissitic, non-empathetic, personality disordered applicants. Should this also be a focal point for change within the U.S. Police department?


    Blessings

    Luke
    Last edited by Luke Holiday; 4th June 2020 at 19:22.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Quote Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
    There was a video showing when Floyd resisted arrest and that's when he was put in the back of the police cruiser #320 after the events mentioned here:
    Quote Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
    The actual arrest where the "arrestors" are seen coming from across the street where the police car # 320 is parked on the other street and where the two officers are seen wearing body cams (black rectangular patch on right pocket and on chest) and where Floyd is seen being walked back without resistance to the # 320 car at the end of the video (video is now unavailable)
    But I couldn't find that video anymore. Floyd was in the back of the car #320 and then pulled out of it to end up on the ground with 4 officers holding him down.

    That's probably the reason why it took three days to charge these officers with manslaughter and the disappearance of that video but the circulation of the main one which allowed to lit the fuse to jump start the agenda.

    Well I don't know the reason for the delay in charging the other officers, they could clearly be seen in the other videos, just standing there either holding Floyd down or watching.

    But thanks to those who posted this new video, because it's the first time I am seeing Floyd actually being in the cruiser.

    So why did they pull him out? Because he said he was claustrophobic? He was pulled out just seconds after being shoved into the car.
    That would be a pretty quick reaction to a possible request wouldn't you say?

    It's more difficult to strangle someone with your knee if they are sitting inside the back of the car.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    The narrative of George Floyd's death is being hyped so aggressively now because it is another injustice that justice should address, yet but one that cannot really be addressed so easily and so quickly without falling prey to media and political manipulation that dilutes the efforts needed to do all of the works ahead.

    AND

    because the false and inhumane, the bio-weaponized Fauci Flu Project is being called out for the dark agenda it was always created to prepare for, which is the advancement of deeper controls upon the populations that feed the banking beast, the technocratic state and the debased cravings of the dark elite.

    In response, this is the logical next step to all of the many scientists calling out the deeper issues of the criminalities within the agencies that created the viruses and the media they have used to shut down entire worldwide economies.

    Especially now when decades of documented research show a long history of lies, ultimately exposing those media controlled pharmaceutical industries to trillions of dollars in liability amidst the real world, unacknowledged trauma and deaths purposely imposed on millions of children worldwide. This is all getting to hot for the agenda to stay in the same lane.

    They now refocus, inject the new orders to the media and call out their dogs of dissension, aligned against the human will, with all of their degrees and social clout, to change the public focus.

    Undeniable injustices that have to be dealt with and the timing at the end of a lockdown based on shadow science? This Is No Coincidence and all of the distractions that are sold from here on out won't be a coincidence either.

    It is the perfect time to manipulate the public focus, but it's only a danger to us if we can't walk and chew gum at the same time, apparently emotionally destabilized enough to Not be able to do what we all have been doing most of our lives, which is not the case. Quite the opposite considering many of us have naturally been working on many of the issues we are now seeing manipulated by the media.

    Still, some of our existence here, maybe the largest part of it, is totally dependent upon us doing much more than speaking out. Many of us here are here just for this.

    The truths of police criminality are centuries long, but did you stop breathing too?

    AND

    because all of the Antifa monies that need to be paid out, are burning a hole in the Soros/Clinton accounts,

    And

    because the 3rd and 4th and the 5th war-gamed scenarios, developed in the sewers of corporate controlled intelligence agencies who've been doing this for decades, are all ready and waiting for each successive act of the play to end.


    There is no social distance but the one you choose to keep. I would suggest social distance is only there to be bridged with your honest, positive and heart felt steps.

    Can you walk thru the fear of others? Will you step thru the illusion of media training and live the healthy life you can choose?

    There is only the physical distance of your common sense, not the space that legalized injustice creates.

    Keep your intelligence and your insights, Our Humanities, always in touch with your daily lives.

    If you are studying and communicating about an issue of import to you and your life Keep It Going. Do not let all of these successive planned scenarios distract you from the plans you choose for your futures and the futures of your children.

    Remember that distraction from the action, created by a controlled reaction that those of ill intent have planned, is intended to manipulate the truth of your personal focus.

    Keep your feet on the ground and continue to inform, to share, to inquire, to dig deeper, to add your insights to the mix.
    Last edited by Hym; 5th June 2020 at 15:30.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Quote Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
    There was a video showing when Floyd resisted arrest and that's when he was put in the back of the police cruiser #320 after the events mentioned here:
    Quote Posted by Gwin Ru (here)
    The actual arrest where the "arrestors" are seen coming from across the street where the police car # 320 is parked on the other street and where the two officers are seen wearing body cams (black rectangular patch on right pocket and on chest) and where Floyd is seen being walked back without resistance to the # 320 car at the end of the video (video is now unavailable)
    But I couldn't find that video anymore. Floyd was in the back of the car #320 and then pulled out of it to end up on the ground with 4 officers holding him down.

    That's probably the reason why it took three days to charge these officers with manslaughter and the disappearance of that video but the circulation of the main one which allowed to lit the fuse to jump start the agenda.
    I've not seen that video, and if anyone has a link to it, we'll immediately download it for the archive.

    But for whatever it might be worth, this was published in the New York Times today.
    Witness Who Was in Floyd’s Car Says His Friend Did Not Resist Arrest

    Maurice Lester Hall, who fled Minneapolis after witnessing George Floyd’s death, was arrested Monday in Houston and interviewed by a Minnesota investigator.


    WASHINGTON — A longtime friend of George Floyd’s who was in the passenger seat of Mr. Floyd’s car during his fatal encounter with a Minneapolis police officer said on Wednesday night that Mr. Floyd tried to defuse the tensions with the police and in no way resisted arrest.

    “He was, from the beginning, trying in his humblest form to show he was not resisting in no form or way,” said the friend, Maurice Lester Hall, 42, who was tracked down on Monday in Houston, arrested on outstanding warrants and interviewed by Minnesota state investigators.

    “I could hear him pleading, ‘Please, officer, what’s all this for?’” Mr. Hall said in an interview on Wednesday night with The New York Times.

    Mr. Hall recounted the last moments with Mr. Floyd on Memorial Day, May 25, after they had spent part of the day together.

    “He was just crying out at that time for anyone to help because he was dying,” Mr. Hall said. “I’m going to always remember seeing the fear in Floyd’s face because he’s such a king. That’s what sticks with me, seeing a grown man cry, before seeing a grown man die.”

    Mr. Hall is a key witness in the state’s investigation into the four officers who apprehended Mr. Floyd, including Derek Chauvin, who knelt on Mr. Floyd’s neck for nearly nine minutes, even after he became unresponsive.

    But Mr. Hall — who had outstanding warrants for his arrest on felony possession of a firearm, felony domestic assault and felony drug possession — provided a false name to officers at the scene of Mr. Floyd’s arrest, according to a Minnesota official.

    Mr. Hall left Minneapolis and hitchhiked to Houston two days later, after visiting a memorial at the site of the police encounter.

    “When the whole world was finding out that they murdered George Floyd,” he said, “I went and said a prayer where I witnessed him take his last breath, and I left.”

    Mr. Hall said he had left dinner with his family late this Monday evening when their car was surrounded by at least a dozen law enforcement officers. After his arrest, he was questioned for hours by a Minnesota state investigator about Mr. Floyd’s death — not about his warrants. Mr. Hall was then transferred to the Harris County Jail in Houston, and on Tuesday, he returned to his home in the city, after his lawyers fought for his release.

    “When Mr. Hall’s family found us, he had been isolated in jail for 10 hours after being interrogated until 3 a.m.,” said Ashlee C. McFarlane, a partner at Gerger Khalil Hennessy & McFarlane, who is representing Mr. Hall. “This is not how you treat a key witness, especially one that had just seen his friend murdered by police. Even with outstanding warrants, this should have been done another way.”

    “I knew what was happening, that they were coming. It was inevitable,” Mr. Hall said in the interview with The Times. “I’m a key witness to the cops murdering George Floyd, and they want to know my side. Whatever I’ve been through, it’s all over with now. It’s not about me.”

    Mr. Hall and Mr. Floyd, both Houston natives, had connected in Minneapolis through a pastor and had been in touch every day since 2016. Mr. Hall said that he considered Mr. Floyd a confidant and a mentor, like many in the community, and that he went back to Houston because the “only ties I had in Minnesota that had me Houston-rooted was George.”

    Agents of the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, which is building the state’s case against Mr. Chauvin and the three other officers involved in the Floyd case, “attempted to contact Mr. Hall numerous times to no avail,” said Bruce Gordon, a spokesman for the bureau.

    Mr. Hall said that he was distraught and working through his trauma with his family, and was not taking phone calls in the days immediately after.

    The bureau asked law enforcement agents in Texas to arrest Mr. Hall because it believed he was not cooperating with its investigation. Mr. Hall and Ms. McFarlane, his lawyer, said that he cooperated fully with the Minnesota official’s interview.

    “They got a testimony, and that’s what they were after,” Mr. Hall added. “They came and saw, and left me to fighting for my freedom.”

    Passengers in the car with Mr. Floyd, a man and a woman, had remained unidentified until Mr. Hall spoke with The Times on Wednesday. Mr. Hall said that he did not know the woman’s name.

    Minnesota officials said on Wednesday that the state had upgraded the charges against Mr. Chauvin to second-degree murder from third-degree murder and manslaughter. They also charged the other three officers who took part in the fatal arrest — Thomas Lane, 37, J. Alexander Kueng, 26, and Tou Thao, 34 — with aiding and abetting murder.

    All four officers were fired the day after Mr. Floyd died and video of his death went viral online.

    “I walk with Floyd,” Mr. Hall said. “I know that I’m going to be his voice.”

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Luke, You wrote:

    "Again, I will defer to the police officers out there - but it does appears that the police officer did violate procedure/law in his continued use of reasonable restraining force well beyond what is normal or reasonable.

    3. Pending a correction from experienced police officers: Based on this video and considering Mr. Chauvin's prior incidents, I now believe that a strong case can be made for Mr. Chauvin's conviction of involuntary manslaughter despite the toxicology report." Luke
    **********************************************************************

    I note you advance, retreat, subtly walk back statements that are disapproving of the cop's behavior etc...This is formulaic and something I am familiar with though it just might fly under the radar of other members.

    For example--appearing to approve of a conviction of involuntary manslaughter? That's a relatively minor conviction. That's what you get for accidentally backing over somebody while driving. The conviction for the cop would have to conform with the idea that he "accidentally" killed someone while engaging in sadistic behavior, where death could clearly be the result. That's murder.

    In another post you appeal to our 'diplomatic' instincts by asking member to remember the cops have families too, as if this realization isn't axiomatic. My first instincts when witnessing a public lynching isn't to consider the families of the lynchers. It is to focus on the family of the fellow who was murdered.

    In at least every other post you have highlighted that George was on meth etc...This is under debate, yet you are still hammering away on it. We are to remember the cops families, while slowly being conditioned to think of Floyd George as a meth addict, a person just above an animal.

    You may fly under the radar of others here, but you don't fly under mine. But by all means, keep it up. I'll call you on every damn post you write where I see a distinct pattern--particularly the faux diplomat pattern.
    Last edited by AutumnW; 4th June 2020 at 19:19.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Hi Kryztian,

    You wrote:

    This should leave one to ask, why didn't the nation breakdown in late February and early March to protest against the wrongful death of Arbery and malfunction of the "justice" system and why is it doing it now in May and June?

    It's terrible, yes, but they weren't cops, just two yahoos trying to Make America Great Again. The incident surely added to the simmer but it burst into full boil with a sadistic killing caught in high definition on video. So often cases like George's are obscured by smoke and mirrors and video shot from a distance at dusk, so it just adds to the confusion. But this? No confusion, nobody can deny it.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    The details of George Floyds detention show the hallmarks of the officer's intent to harm and to kill without any regard to his personal and his Human Rights.

    Any one who has dealt with a drunk subject, a loved one, a friend, a stranger even, knows the difference between a passive, non-combative and compliant person as George was in this instance and one who poses a threat to the officers or others. This is a clear cut case of a psychopath used to abusing those his job exists to protect. His 17 previous complaints show the pattern of his non-compliance to his sworn duties.

    There never is a case where a person's past should have any influence on how he is treated in relation to any current offense he is accused of, especially one involving a misdemeanor where a citation should be the only issuance by a police agency. For $20 and a pack of cigarettes?

    It is also clinically and morally correct to charge those officers who were not only complicit in allowing Chauvin to carry out his fatal attack on George, but who also contributed to George's inability to breath by keeping their pressure on his chest, making it entirely impossible for him to expand his chest long enough to take air in, even if Chauvin had removed his pressure on the neck. Chauvin's order to keep the other officers on his body made death much more likely. Any EMT, any doctor, any ground fighter will tell you that this action was filled with malice of intent to injure and/or to kill.

    Any good trainer, especially one that deals with the public, teaches his students to know when to be individually responsible for their actions and not just because there may be legal liability for not acting responsibly in a dangerous situation. This includes the practice of quickly assessing our own part in any action.

    A good trainer will practice a scenario where it is vital for any secondary player to step in and say NO, to step up and back out, to verbalize a Stop! and even to physically engage enough to end a life-threatening action by another.


    Chauvin's continuance of non-stop pressure on George's neck was done with extreme malice of intent, minute after minute. That man intended, not long into his restraint of this man, to kill him. Look at his face as he continues to apply pressure. Look at his expressionless face as a man cries out for air, for his mother, for gods sake! That's the face of a murderer. I've seen it before and it is distinctly disconnected, the mark of a darkness deep inside the soul.
    Last edited by Hym; 5th June 2020 at 02:27.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)


    Keeping all the things I mind that Candace Owens just said, we still need to demand justice for George Floyd, but this should inform how we go about it.
    It's shameful how this ugly soul, that obviously hasn't worked a single hour in her life, uses the privilege that was given to her in order to propagate the same nonsense used to whitewash every police brutality from self righteous white supremacists. George Floyd is a martyr and a hero because at his very last moments was pleading for his "moma" to help him. That plea doesn't usually come from a monster, but from a place of love. I hope she's happy with the money she's being paid for and that one day she won't have to see her child pleading for her help at their last moment. Not to mention her disturbingly screeching voice...

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Floyd, meanwhile, had multiple convictions including robbery with a gun, was possibly passing counterfit bills at the time he was arrested and may have been high.
    And it's shameful from you Kryztian for bringing the argument to such a low level. I'm surprised because I normally enjoy your posts, but here you're completely off the point. Why does it matter what his past was? Who can blame a poor person, who probably was pushed around since a young age in the margins of society, for being trapped in small crime activity? At least he spent 5 years in prison paying for his deeds and probably came out of there even more damaged than he already was thanks to the criminally flawed prison system. Most of the major criminals of society (bankers, politicians, ivy league technocrats, fake journos etc.) are walking around free without spending a single hour in jail to face their crimes and probably pointing the finger towards their victims. Floyd was killed because of his color and his social status, not because of his past convictions, period.
    Last edited by fractal being; 4th June 2020 at 20:52.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Hello Autumn (Mr. Hyde)


    Fair enough: and I agree that it could be interpreted that way:

    Yes, my position has changed, but definitely not for diplomatic reasons (Any doubts take a gander at the Kerry Cassidy book thread (it is here you will find the real genesis behind Mr. Hide's angst towards me) - not that diplomacy isn't important - it is - but my passion is in discovering the truth. ) and it is most certainly not faux.

    My position changed after viewing the posted video followed by reviewing police training data. I honestly had not seen the footage where the officers kept the pressure on for several minutes while MR. Floyd was obviously passed out - This shook me! It shook to my core - as I felt like I had just witnessed a man die unnecessarily.

    The position/opinion was changed after becoming aware of more information.

    Shouldn't everyone on this forum be allotted that same courtesy?

    I would advocate for a public discussion forum that allows for the freedom to express opinions and viewpoints in a friendly, comfortable, non pejorative environment with the security of being able to modify, remold and then re-declare that opinion/belief as more data becomes available. Isn't that what this is all about? Isn't that why we are here?

    Now getting back to discovering the truth.

    Regarding Mr. Floyd and the toxicology report: I was not aware that it was up for debate. I am under the impression that the state's official report is established and identifies that Mr. Floyd was fentanyl intoxicated combined with methamphetamine in his system at time of death. ( Please provide contrary evidence if you have it as I am open to changing my opinion) I do not believe that it is arguable that this combination is potentially lethal on its own - not to mention the adverse physiological effects it might have amplified. Does it make Mr. Floyd an animal - of course not Mr. Hyde - but it may cause one to die while in police restraint,

    But - yes, now that I have more data, I have changed my position.. The prior position being, I was very suspicious and skeptical of it being a set up/psyop. After viewing the June 1st video I posted - I now believe that it happened- the media found the right story to magnify in order to promote an agenda and here we are. So, Mr Hide, what exactly do you find illegal, or wrong about that? Have I commited some sort of lenial Project Avalon sin in your snake eyes?

    "Based on this video and considering Mr. Chauvin's prior incidents, I now believe that a strong case can be made for Mr. Chauvin's conviction of involuntary manslaughter despite the toxicology report."

    Mr. Hyde, you have purposely confabulated my words by stating that I would "approve" of a manslaughter conviction. I would neither approve nor disapprove. I have been consistent in trying to remain objective - looking at the case from both sides with an unbiased perspective. I have come to the conclusion that involuntary manslaughter is the most likely legal outcome. Do I think that would be just or fair? Keeping emotional/visceral responses out of the equation: If you cannot convince a jury that Mr. Chauvin willfully killed Mr, Floyd, then - Yes, I believe it would be just.

    Considering Mr. Floyd's significant drug intoxication combined with his resisting arrest and the difficulty in proving that the officers intentionally tried to kill Mr. Floyd - which is needed for Murder 1 - along the historical precedence of murder convictions of PO's in these type of cases being extremely difficult - ,Yes, I believe that Mr. Chauvin, acting as the senior officer in charge, will likely be convicted of Manslaughter and IMO the other junior officers who were following Mr, Chauvin's orders/direction are not culpable of murder. (Other charges may be appropriate here)

    I would also hope for a discussion forum that allows one to apologize when he/she is wrong, makes a mistake, or simply changes his position - without being chastised or threatened by:

    "I'll call you on every damn post you write where I see a distinct pattern--particularly the faux diplomat pattern" (Now there is the monster in the mirror you were talking about - MR HYDE (My, what faux diplomacy for those who have eyes to see)

    I have apologized on posts/IM to Autumn, Chris and BR, for being wrong on prior posts concerning this thread. (Mr. Hide, have you ever apologized for being critical, wrong or changing an opinion on this forum - or would that be considered faux diplomacy?)

    And lastly, in regards to "My first instincts when witnessing a public lynching isn't to consider the families of the lynchers. It is to focus on the family of the fellow who was murdered."

    Yes Mr. Hide, it very easy to choose that side right now and not very popular to choose the other - but wouldn't it be more productive to understand and feel the emotions of both sides? Isn't this the only way to uncover and create solutions that will ensure this tragedy doesn't repeat itself?

    This will likely not be popular right now - but truth dictates - I would like to acknowledge that this tragedy also involves junior officers who were quite likely doing the best job they were capable of doing: based on their training, experience and rank.

    Here is recent article stating that 2 of the officers did speak up to the senior officer regarding being uncomfortable with what was going on:
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-minnea...204547488.html

    I do not believe the senior or junior officers had any desire to be involved in Mr. Floyds death or anyone's death that day, just as I know they had nothing to do with Mr. Floyd allegedly getting intoxicated, passing off counterfeit bills, and resisting arrest. No it does not justify being killed - but you cannot say that he bears no culpabity either. If he doesn't use illegal drugs, commit a crime, and then resist arrest - those police officers are not in jail facing murder charges and their families are not shattered. No, I do not believe Murder 1 is the right call here - congruently I do not believe it could be proven in court of law based on the evidence thus far.

    Does anyone out there have family who are police officers or lost a loved one who was a police officer?

    And you are right, I am guilty of trying to never forget that they have families, wives, and children - just like you and I - they are deserving of due process per the rule of law.

    Mr. Hide it doesn't have to be an either/or - it can be a both/and

    Regarding the three officers who were charged today with 2nd degree murder: I have been in the military and I know how hard it can be to try and overcome a senior officers dictates - especially during an intense/highly charged situation such as these junior officers were forced into. (see above article)

    So, Mr. Hyde, If you feel you must challenge my every post- by all means - if that serves you - and is in the best interest of the forum - please do so. Personally, I learn better when pushed. But remember a mirror can work in both directions. Autumn, are you sure you want to continue seeing that monster. Are you sure you want to keep becoming Mr. Hyde?

    Autumn, I would much rather we think of each other as allies, friends and cohorts working harmoniously on the same team, for a common goal …. which is personal growth through uncovering truth.

    I understand you have an agenda to push and a need to set the narrative here - but this could be done far more effectively with tact and real diplomacy.

    I have sent you an IM if you would like to attenuate your antagonism, and avoid having to see Mr. Hyde.

    Your move chief..

    Respectfully

    Luke
    Last edited by Luke Holiday; 8th June 2020 at 04:23.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020


    So, autumn, If you feel you must challenge my every post- by all means - if that serves you and good of the forum please do so.
    Luke Holiday

    Okay. I will.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    The following video suggests that GF resisted getting put in the back seat of the police car, which is why he ended up on the ground.

    Supposed GF indicated he was claustrophobic and did not want to get in the back of the car, which seems odd (he had just gotten out of another car).

    The video also indicates that it was pretty clear GF was intoxicated.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vksEJR9EPQ8
    Before you speak, ask yourself, is it kind, is it necessary, is it true, does it improve on the silence?

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Quote Posted by fractal being (here)
    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)


    Keeping all the things I mind that Candace Owens just said, we still need to demand justice for George Floyd, but this should inform how we go about it.
    It's shameful how this ugly soul, that obviously hasn't worked a single hour in her life, uses the privilege that was given to her in order to propagate the same nonsense used to whitewash every police brutality from self righteous white supremacists. George Floyd is a martyr and a hero because at his very last moments was pleading for his "moma" to help him. That plea doesn't usually come from a monster, but from a place of love. I hope she's happy with the money she's being paid for and that one day she won't have to see her child pleading for her help at their last moment. Not to mention her disturbingly screeching voice...

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Floyd, meanwhile, had multiple convictions including robbery with a gun, was possibly passing counterfit bills at the time he was arrested and may have been high.
    And it's shameful from you Kryztian for bringing the argument to such a low level. I'm surprised because I normally enjoy your posts, but here you're completely off the point. Why does it matter what his past was? Who can blame a poor person, who probably was pushed around since a young age in the margins of society, for being trapped in small crime activity? At least he spent 5 years in prison paying for his deeds and probably came out of there even more damaged than he already was thanks to the criminally flawed prison system. Most of the major criminals of society (bankers, politicians, ivy league technocrats, fake journos etc.) are walking around free without spending a single hour in jail to face their crimes and probably pointing the finger towards their victims. Floyd was killed because of his color and his social status, not because of his past convictions, period.


    Her privilege? I'd love to know what you mean by that. "Privilege" is like the tofu of words nowadays; it can be used in a million different ways. I'd love to know exactly what you mean by that. She's black, so it can't be black privilege, can it? She's a woman too, so it certainly isn't female privilege, correct? This does amuse me a little, seeing as though according to the bible of social justice just these 2 qualifications alone should make her something like an intersectional paragon of oppression

    oh, wait a sec, she's conservative. they don't count, right?

    You can see how silly this all can get pretty quickly, yeah?

    Owens was raised by her grandparents after her folks divorced. Suggests a broken home to me. She endured multiple racial death threats growing up too. Wasn't easy, apparently.

    And it turns out she's worked a day in her life after all. Lots of 'em. She studied journalism at Rhode Island; became an intern at Vogue magazine; then got a job for a private equity firm in NY city, moving up the ranks to later become president. And now she's a very well known and highly successful conservative pundit.

    Privilege? Sounds like competence and hard work to me.

    Look, she's said and done quite a few controversial things, but silencing her seems a bit fascist to me.

    Candace has some hits and misses in this video. I winced a few times and was enlightened a few times. Nothing wrong whatsoever with Chris posting this in my view
    Last edited by Mike; 4th June 2020 at 23:04.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    I know I have enjoyed "white privilege". Any (non Jewish) Caucasian DOES in the US. It is something built in and to deny that fact is an obstacle to dealing with the capacity of "invisible"racism to divide people. It does not mean we individual Caucasians are "oppressors" or active racists. IMO we don't need reparations for the past but we need a different culture.

    As far as the division and violence potential between police and "the rest of us", there is an inherent us versus them that is WORST for non whites but is endemic. This episode is asking good questions IMO. It is strange to me that in the issue that I care bout (mandatory vaccination), a large percentage of followers of the High wire are white and possibly could be considered "white supremist"??? This video lays it on the line that white people just don't experience what others who are not white DO in America. An accepted racism never ended.

    It is really really a weirdly scary time but also COULD BE a breakthrough moment... THE breakthrough I dream about where we respect one another as friends (maximum support), leave one another to make individual choices (minimal laws) and also KEEP EVOLVING (ongoing self TRUTH)!!!

    Last edited by Delight; 4th June 2020 at 22:47.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    ok, hang on Delight, let me get this straight:

    Jews don't have "white privilege"? This is a little confusing to me because most of them are white.

    Do you think those secretive patriarchs of white privilege handing out white privilege chips can just tell on arrival that they're jews, and withhold privilege as a result?

    And are they holding out privilege because Jews represent an "oppressed" group? Most Jews I know don't seem too oppressed. Seem to be doing ok in the world. Some even say they're ruling it.

    And if they are oppressed, is it because of the Holocaust? Is it because of all that time God kept them in the desert during biblical times? Because that seems like an awfully long time ago. Does historical oppression only count now if it was relatively recent? If so, how recent? What's the cut off point?

    Look, if you go back far enough and long enough, everybody has been oppressed in some horrific way. So your distinctions feel a little arbitrary to me. I'm not trying to be glib; trying to prove a point.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    ok, hang on Delight, let me get this straight:

    Jews don't have "white privilege"? This is a little confusing to me because most of them are white.

    Do you think those secretive patriarchs of white privilege handing out white privilege chips can just tell on arrival that they're jews, and withhold privilege as a result?

    And are they holding out privilege because Jews represent an "oppressed" group? Most Jews I know don't seem too oppressed. Seem to be doing ok in the world. Some even say they're ruling it.

    And if they are oppressed, is it because of the Holocaust? Is it because of all that time God kept them in the desert during biblical times? Because that seems like an awfully long time ago. Does historical oppression only count now if it was relatively recent? If so, how recent? What's the cut off point?

    Look, if you go back far enough and long enough, everybody has been oppressed in some horrific way. So your distinctions feel a little arbitrary to me. I'm not trying to be glib; trying to prove a point.
    I live in North Georgia. It was only in this decade that there were enough male people here with the heritage of Judaism to be able to have a congregation. There is a definite prejudice against Jews where I live. I know too that it was WAY worse in the South for Jews up to the 1960's. That's all I KNOW from personal experience.

    Quote Look, if you go back far enough and long enough, everybody has been oppressed in some horrific way. So your distinctions feel a little arbitrary to me. I'm not trying to be glib; trying to prove a point.
    It doesn't REALLY matter if we disagree. At this point, with all the confusion, the insanity and the absurdity, it may not matter what any of us think? It may come down to simply the bookend of death and what we DO before then. IF confronted PERSONALLY with a moment of opportunity to stand for what we value, do we have something we DO stand for?

    I really feel happy because I feel connected to some ideals that I hear form others like Del Bigtree. He does not inform my POV, he says it TOO. I would love to live in the world where I dream us all empowered by ever more elegant truth.
    Last edited by Delight; 4th June 2020 at 23:14.

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    Default Re: The death of George Floyd in police hands, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

    It is clear that after George Floyd was taken out of his own car, handcuffed and was then taken over and onto the sidewalk that he was ALREADY in a state of both physical and mental distress. He sat down on the ground with his hands cuffed behind him and attempted to catch his breath. The officer who took him over there had to have known his current state of stress, not only by listening to him ask Why he was being held, but by how the store owners noted when they called the police in the first place.

    It is the policeman's job to De-escalate the situation when a subject is under the influence and non-combative, even if the subject is asking for an explanation for his being detained. Good training teaches that there is no way to know what other substances the subject may or may not have in their system and in that case, without a combative situation being at hand, care must be taken to deal with the subject. Slow down. Attempt to calm the subject down. Communicate. Listen.

    When the situation comes to this, it is always in the best interests of all involved to call in for medical assistance, to call in an EMT unit to assess the subject's condition. I know of departments that have learned to ask for medical evaluations, asap, even if only in the interest of their own legal protections. In doing so a subject will often tell an EMT the truth about any thing else they may have taken, as it is the EMT's protocol to do so.

    With a better knowledge of a patient's true condition the officers then have a more reasonable basis for dealing with the situation. However, that is if they care and if they do not have another agenda in dealing with a subject.


    Did George know that he was going to be assaulted when Chauvin showed up? Was that the reason why he resisted being transferred to another car? Did he see this coming while he was already in a state of stress due to his intoxication, with the addition of fentanyl and speed in his system?
    Last edited by Hym; 21st June 2020 at 19:55.

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