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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default All Lives Matter

    Of course, black lives matter. (And I'm NOT going to put that in Title Case.)

    Because white lives matter, too.

    So do the lives of
    • The domestically abused
    • Abused children
    • Native Americans (I wonder what they think about all this?)
    • The Uyghurs, a million of them in China's "re-education camps"
    • Rohingya refugees in Bangladesh (a million of them, too)
    • The San Bushmen, who've been displaced from the Kalahari desert where they had lived for 40,000 years
    • The Australian Aborigines, and the New Zealand Maoris
    • All the poorest people in the world who live on less than $1 a day
    • The indigenous tribes in the Amazon rain forest
    • Julian Assange (and 1001 other political prisoners whose names we may never know)
    • Everyone reading this.
    That's a very, very incomplete list. All Lives Matter — and I will put that in Title Case. it's the only sentiment about this politically charged matter that has any truth or integrity.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    Quote Posted by Mark/Rahkyt, on the George Floyd thread (here)
    All lives do matter. Including black lives, which have not mattered, ever, in American history and maybe since the dawn of the rise of the West and the ascendancy of European interpretations of the Cosmos to the top of the Pyramid.
    Yes, absolutely.

    But neither have Native American lives mattered (whose story has been every bit as appalling and tragic as those of many American blacks throughout history). And let's include Aborigine lives, as well. (I'd love to hear some Australians here on this thread. South Africans, too.)

    Blacks have been treated unimaginably badly. But not more badly than many other groups you or I can easily name.

    Going back in time, in the context of the "rise of the west" (meaning, those of European descent) how about the Mayans, the Aztecs and the Incas, who were slaughtered mercilessly in their millions?

    There's been a lot of genocide in history, even recent history. The current US issue has been politicized, exploited, and to quite some degree has now become irrational. It's been suggested that "Black Lives Matter" is now a de facto political party. Go figure.

    It'd have been reassuring to see BLM activists making at least some kind of acknowledgment of the plights of so many other disempowered, abused and suppressed people in the world. That would show real humanity, and a commendably broad awareness, on their part. In the absence of anything remotely like that to my knowledge, they do themselves no favors.

    Dare I say it, it borders on supremacist arrogance (I use those strong words deliberately) for their leaders to suggest that their cause is more important than that of any other significantly abused groups. This is one of the many, many things that's way out of balance here.

    My personal position (if it's not already clear!): I grew up in West Africa, as many know. I've returned to Africa many times. I love the African people. I have Africa in my blood. But the politicized and militant BLM movement I find abhorrent and deeply disturbing. There's something bady, badly, badly wrong here.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 10th June 2020 at 00:20.

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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    There was a time when the phrase all lives matter really grated on me.

    I felt I understood what the spirit behind black lives matter was, at its best, and generally felt any opposition to it was in bad taste.

    Now I feel a little different.

    The usual rebuttal to all lives matter is the following: "it's not about you. stop making this about you". ..with the first statement uttered by a white person generally and the second a black person.

    Well, if police forces are being defunded and even disbanded altogether, it is about me. Now my life is being endangered by this push to make the country less safe.

    With all this fetishizing shame, virtue signalling, emotional hysteria, political opportunism and so forth, it's hard to tell who is who and what is what anymore. I know what the BLM website says about some of its aims, and they disturb me (redistributive policies, de-funding police etc). But I'm also aware of the spirit it was created in, or the spirit I like to think it was created in, and I can't always reconcile the 2. Nor can I differentiate between all those who are genuinely trying to help under the BLM banner and those who are trying to merely agitate. So I remain conflicted.

    This video by the brilliant Eric Weinstein belongs in this thread. He sums it all up beautifully:
    Last edited by Mike; 10th June 2020 at 00:56.

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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    But the politicized and militant BLM movement I find abhorrent and deeply disturbing. There's something bady, badly, badly wrong here.
    I couldn't agree with this sentiment more. Something is seriously out of place.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 10th June 2020 at 00:32. Reason: fixed quote attribution

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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    (Brief mention here on the aborigine peoples. Highly recommended is John Pilger's film Utopia made I think in 2013 and I'm putting that in the library now in the John Pilger folder there - give it 10 mins or so from this posting to appear. Direct link to that JP folder is here.)

    and discussion
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    I was pointing out something on facebook to a friend the other day and I'll share it here as well.

    We all have to be careful that we don't start treating any one race as more deserving of special treatment than any other, to try to "make up" for the sins of the past. I see some of this seems to be occurring / it has probability to occur. Treating races unequally, not matter what the "reasoning", is a racist act.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    It’s what needs to be repeated again and again in resounding voice of the Universe. Your life matters. All lives matter.

    “If you save even one Life you’ve saved the world entire”.


    Some people miss the point of getting to understand, listen, empathize with other human beings is important. Saving your old mothers, sisters and forgotten sons is important. It’s where the good example starts.

    Don’t be afraid or ashamed to save your friends day and life if you can. In old times we always did it and it wasn’t considered so “exceptional”.

    Some people want to help so called “everybody”, Native Americans and Tibetans or the lost tribes of Amazon and I say, thanks for them, they are generally good people.

    Tho before you can help someone you need to understand them better, make friends.


    If you get to hospital in critical state, your life is in hands of kind hearted doctors and nurses and they will always try to save you.

    Be careful with those who define themselves as killers, predators and takers of life.
    The energy is around and it is very real.
    It is now being “controlled” by a coverup structure of modern law, psychology and prison systems.

    Them too need to be helped and treated better, in life.


    I wish there is bigger opening and greater Freedom achieved, manifested through and by people of this Planet. Not more controls


    More freedom and more happiness. So keep saving lives


    🙏🌟🕊

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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    If you put All Lives Matter , just that as a slogan on posters and surround your presidential palaces it would be a Timeless Moment.

    🙏🌟🙏

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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Of course, black lives matter. (And I'm NOT going to put that in Title Case.)

    Because white lives matter, too.

    So do the lives of
    • The domestically abused
    • Abused children
    • Native Americans (I wonder what they think about all this?)
    • The Uyghurs, a million of them in China's "re-education camps"
    • Rohingya refugees in Bangladesh (a million of them, too)
    • The San Bushmen, who've been displaced from the Kalahari desert where they had lived for 40,000 years
    • The Australian Aborigines, and the New Zealand Maoris
    • All the poorest people in the world who live on less than $1 a day
    • The indigenous tribes in the Amazon rain forest
    • Julian Assange (and 1001 other political prisoners whose names we may never know)
    • Everyone reading this.
    That's a very, very incomplete list. All Lives Matter — and I will put that in Title Case. it's the only sentiment about this politically charged matter that has any truth or integrity.
    Bill, I am not prepared to comment on this post because I am still trying to process the entire BLM movement. My purpose for posting here is twofold.
    1. To thank you for taking on this issue in an open way, it deserves discussion and intelligent comments from people on both sides of this issue.
    2. To be perfectly honest my reluctance (rightly or wrongly) stems from the fact that I have seen others in the media making this identical comment and they have been tagged as racist at worst and insensitive at best.
    I am convinced that the people saying we need a conversation about race are the ones that refuse to have it. They are the ones shouting racist the loudest. Screaming racism at every turn stops all conversation and we end up in a stalemate. There is one thing I am certain about and that is we cannot stop the dialogue.

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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    Of course all lives matter. And reforming the judicial and penitentary system in the U.S., which impacts poor blacks (and poor whites but not to the same degree) more than any other demographic, is a good place to start.

    Americans can't do much about most of the others on that list, but they can, through protests, general strikes and other peaceful actions help those in their own country. Those who want to help Native Americans can possibly do volunteer work. The Hopi nation, in Arizona, currently need food and other donations, if I'm not mistaken.

    The way to help those suffering from domestic abuse is to pressure the judiciary to pull women out of prisons who killed their partners in self defense, even if no iron clad proof exists that that is the case. As long as there was a strong circumstantial case to be made, that's all it should take.

    In Canada we have miles and miles to go to redress all the crap we have put our indigenous population through. They are still being abused.

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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    Dare I say it, it borders on supremacist arrogance (I use those strong words deliberately) for their leaders to suggest that their cause is more important than that of any other significantly abused groups. This is one of the many, many things that's way out of balance here.

    My personal position (if it's not already clear!): I grew up in West Africa, as many know. I've returned to Africa many times. I love the African people. I have Africa in my blood. But the politicized and militant BLM movement I find abhorrent and deeply disturbing. There's something bady, badly, badly wrong here.
    That is interesting. After "Roots" came out, I understand that black Americans were still without roots--Africans thought "Why are you coming over here calling me brother? I'm not your brother."

    Most of the millions displaced from Africa were done so by dominant black tribes--and so, like most of the white people that came to America, they were generally losers. Is not the word "slave" derived from "Slav", as Latins and Germanics thought all Slavs should be slaves?

    When I look at my heritage, it is ages of white on white violence. We can see that officially, the English government aimed enslavement at the Irish. Outside of government, the private Irish citizens--if you were Protestant, do you know what they did? They like to take a young mother and her baby to a frozen lake, and then "crew" the baby out to the middle in the thin ice. Well, what happens. Momma runs out like a rabid dog and is too heavy and breaks the ice, both hypothermalate immediately and then perish. And that's just because of how you pray. Supremacism, racism, whatever, any excuse works, This is coming off the Siege of Derry:

    The city had endured 105 days of siege, from 18 April to 1 August 1689. Some 4,000 of its population of 8,000 are said to have died during this siege.

    Not even carpet bombing by B-52s has achieved a 50% civilian kill ratio (only 30% of the entire N. Korean population was eliminated).

    Aztecs killed many Aztecs and other neighbors. I had one of the first records ever made, which was an Eskimo song that says "I have killed many Siberians". There are only a few examples of indigineous people who did not kill anyone who looks like them, or anyone who looks different.

    Even though there is such a thing as white against black racism, it is relatively small compared to white on white or black on black crime; and if there is such a thing as a white racist who "only" dislikes black people, I would be surprised. Again, comparatively, I could not even join white supremacy since I have 1/64 Cherokee, even though this is actually common, and nowhere near enough for a tribe to pay any attention to you. Probably not enough for a black racist to consider me non-white either.

    All lives matter, sadly I cannot reach them all, but, if you go down, I don't care what you look like, if you are being assaulted by someone stronger, I will help you.

    Brutality is everywhere, whether police or civilian, and since we can see that civilians can easily dislodge a police force, I'm sticking with "civilians are way more dangerous". Despite having a large knowledge base of police actions, I do not, in memory, have so much as an injury there. It is possible for them to investigate and make arrests without undue force. Conversely, every single problem I have ever had, has been forked over by a civilian.

    So the lack of a uniform and ownership of an opinion is not getting me on anyone's side--I believe that you should not be crushed by institutions, but, that is because the institutions suck, not because the things people think and say are inspiring. If all those foofy signs were re-written as "Illiterate, Need Education", I might sympathize. Everyone apparently is institutionalized. This does not mean "committed to a mental institution", but, one who knows how to depend on an institution. Like when you commit crimes for the purpose of going to jail. Or have children for a higher welfare payment. Or if you just work a regular job in such an institution.

    Aside from racism and violence and whatnot, I am very, very leery of the institution or the system taking this all very seriously so they will know how to "sell you what you want". That is exactly what they will do. Give you something for temporary appeasal while the real counterfeit keeps running. Allegedly fake a $20, and you might wind up dead; forge an entire economy, you are an expert. Whether they need to dish out Cauliflower Meat or put more token black people in office, does not matter, much, anything can be done as long as the wizard stays at the keys of the machine.

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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    Quote it's the only sentiment about this politically charged matter that has any truth or integrity.
    I agree, and I refuse to be shamed for this sentiment.
    It saddens me deeply to see this innate truth being systematically equated with racism and shame lately. (just google "All Lives Matter" and see.)
    I honestly believe that embracing this sentiment, together, is our one unifying lifeline.
    "We're all bozos on this bus"

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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    Quote Posted by Agape (here)
    If you put All Lives Matter , just that as a slogan on posters and surround your presidential palaces it would be a Timeless Moment.

    🙏🌟🙏
    Couldn't agree more with this statement. And for the life of me I don't get how we haven't seen it yet. Especially with all countries joining in the protest marches.

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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    I wonder if it will still be alright to state all nations matter because where this is leading is to a one world government.

    Now, I don't know, but I wonder how other worlds with sentient life made the leap to a type 1 civilization. Did they go through the same process? Did they have out groups that had to be brought into the fold? Did they first form a one world government? Or did they use their national resources to vie for supremacy in space and then came together? Or did they never come together and several space faring nations sprung forth at once?

    The necessity to join forces might be deferred for a time, but if a world makes it to a type 2 civilization then I think it would take the resources of an entire world to tame the solar system - but it might not be so.


    Also, this world matters, our sun matters, matter matters. Maybe even truth matters still to some.

    One final thing: one of my books is titled Life Matters. Maybe I should re title it All Life Matters!

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    United States Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    You set me up Bill. Please include my entire comment.

    Everybody knows all lives matter. In this venue it can probably be said with a greater understanding.

    But across the general public it is a discussion.

    Which is the point.

    And you should know that.

    Because a LOT of people in America and across the world do NOT believe that Black Lives Matter.

    And so it has to be discussed. There is so much miseducation and lack of simple historical knowledge out there. Almost a hidden history.

    So Black Lives Matter is about education at heart. All of this militarization is coming from beyond most black people and even the white people who are involved. Everybody wants to see a better world.

    Only some want to use these slogans to cause harm. And that is shameful.

    Last edited by Mark/Rahkyt; 10th June 2020 at 14:51.

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    United States Avalon Member Chester's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Of course, black lives matter. (And I'm NOT going to put that in Title Case.)

    Because white lives matter, too.

    So do the lives of
    • The domestically abused
    • Abused children
    • Native Americans (I wonder what they think about all this?)
    • The Uyghurs, a million of them in China's "re-education camps"
    • Rohingya refugees in Bangladesh (a million of them, too)
    • The San Bushmen, who've been displaced from the Kalahari desert where they had lived for 40,000 years
    • The Australian Aborigines, and the New Zealand Maoris
    • All the poorest people in the world who live on less than $1 a day
    • The indigenous tribes in the Amazon rain forest
    • Julian Assange (and 1001 other political prisoners whose names we may never know)
    • Everyone reading this.
    That's a very, very incomplete list. All Lives Matter — and I will put that in Title Case. it's the only sentiment about this politically charged matter that has any truth or integrity.
    In the US right now, if you say that or write that anywhere [all lives matter], you risk all sorts of experiences you likely prefer to avoid.

    There's a segment of the US population that has truly lost sight of the most basic expression of being - respect for each other as individuals, as conscious beings... and it has absolutely nothing to do with things like "skin color" or that you be some identifiable group that is oppressed.

    If you wish to understand one good reason why I say this - go here (members only) -
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1360413

    There are members here who have accessed this post who, I would think, had to have read this OP and who didn't thank it. Mind blowing.
    Last edited by Chester; 10th June 2020 at 14:20.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Avalon Member Orph's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    Quote Posted by Chester (here)

    There are members here who have accessed this post who, I would think, had to have read this OP and who didn't thank it. Mind blowing.
    Let's not get too absorbed into this "thanking" mind-set. Somewhere there is an entire discussion/thread about the use of this "thanks" icon. If nobody has thanked your thread (yet), so what? ........... pffffffffffft....... Moving along.

    As an aside, I can't access those types of videos without screwing up my computer anyway.
    I am enlightened, ............ Oh wait. That's just the police shining their spotlights on me.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    Quote Posted by Ken (here)
    I’ve been trying to understand the viewpoints here and I’ve been having some serious issues doing so.

    If there was a movement, an uprising, in Myanmar by the Rohingya people protesting their treatment by police and military forces, and using the term “Rohingya Lives Matter!” would you interject and complain that they were being used by TPTB to divert attention away from, say, the Babylonian Money Magic System under which we are all enslaved?

    When the Palestinians are protesting their mistreatment and marginalization by the Israeli military, do you jump in waving you’re hands and shouting, say “Hey, many of these military folks are actually good people (which I’m sure they are) and what about the Uighur’s in China”?

    Or if the Uighur’s were holding up signs “Uighur Lives Matter!” would you complain that, “Hey, many of the Han Chinese majority are good people, give them a break! This whole Uighur thing is just to distract you from the fact that there is a New World Order Agenda afoot”?

    Yes, of course All Lives Matter. But do we insist on drowning out the narrative that Black Lives Matter and call it a psyop by TPTB, ignore their systematic oppression by the white majority in the U. S. because, admitting the Black Lives Matter movement is justified means you are bowing to TPTB? Where does that get us? Attempting to castrate the Black Lives Movement will get us where exactly?

    I’m honestly asking this because I’ve been distressed by this uprising against a movement which is in search of fairer treatment for Black people in the U.S. and world in general. And yes, of course I realize that the movement has been infiltrated by bad actors on the left and right, but so have all worthwhile efforts that are a potential threat to TPTB.

    I believe that Black Lives Matter is an important step in a journey forward in recognition that Tibetan Lives Matter, Uighur Lives Matter, Rohingya Lives Matter, Palestinian Lives Matter, Native American Lives Matter, that ALL Lives Matter. But if you are insisting that this first step, Black Lives Matter, is just a psyop, well, what then?
    Ken, I greatly appreciate your post (which was on the George Floyd thread), all your viewpoints and perspectives, and I love and respect you like a brother.

    But BLM is now being adopted into part of the NWO agenda. That's the problem. There's a vast amount of media-driven emotional manipulation taking place.

    Do we see anyone talking about this nowadays? (It's not ancient history. This happened in 1890.)
    Of course not. The reasons are:
    • It's not politically expedient.
    • It's no longer got enough emotional leverage to be useful as a trigger for change.
    • Not enough people can be made to care. Whoever's directing the media knows this, so they don't even try to mention it.
    • Native Americans leaders are (on the whole) non-militant and fairly spiritually oriented — as best I know. Assuming this is correct, this is greatly to their credit, but in today's news-cycle-driven world of orchestrated public opinion, this means their causes stay largely ignored. It's all yesterday's news. Not today's.
    I'll say this purposefully strongly. Anyone who thinks that Black lives in America are more important, more newsworthy, or a more justified cause for close examination and societal change than Native American lives, doesn't know a thing about American history.

    And I'll say this strongly, too, but I do genuinely understand that not all Americans can see this. America doesn't have a great history. It has a shameful history. And it's not a great nation. It's a shameful nation. For MANY reasons, not just a few that fit neatly into current media purposes.

    http://projectavalon.net/Bury_My_Hea...unded_Knee.pdf



    I'll say more about the Australian Aborigines later, so as not to dilute this post. But some of the Australians reading this might possibly care to comment.

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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    “Defund the thought police.”.

    So wrote Candace Owens in a recent tweet.

    As I sit here quietly raging at the racism inherent in the phrase “white privilege” – having come from a single parent upbringing, experienced near homelessness and a material struggle that many of my ‘white’ peers at the time didn’t I can tell you there is nothing privileged about it.

    But I’ll share with you what a privilege IS: it’s being alive, that’s a privilege. And it comes with a responsibility.

    And it matters, as Bill’s opening missive attests – ALL LIVES MATTER. As a measure in the very least of some commitment to humanity and your place in it this time around damn well stop being ‘activated’.

    You aren't a landmine, you're a human being.

    As I seethe at the patronising sloganeering of “Silence in violence” and listen to those that promulgate such absurdity being played like an old violin, again. (And we know what a violin played badly looks and sounds like, or at least my family did as I was growing up - Stradivarius rolls in his casket.)

    And fall for this same tired tune in perpetuity. And silence and deep thought right now is what everyone should really crave.

    But, no.

    Placards for retards. Tropes for dopes and still they aren’t sated. Bloated on the gluttony of their own righteousness.

    Toppling monuments that should remain as a reminder of an unsavoury past. What next? Destroying the Giza complex when it may be discovered that nefarious entities in antiquity played us around that time as well, as they are doing right now, too?

    You going to destroy the Great Pyramids, too, moron?

    Frenzied imbeciles, of all colours it seems. And shame and embarrassment remains an alien concept, at least today. Tomorrow will bring a salutary, humbling reminder, when the dust clears.

    Ignominy locked in a passionate embrace with ignorance.

    Not a pretty colour. But it seems to be what everybody wants.

    So, George Floyd appears in a snuff movie. He happens to be black. Meanwhile in another far off place a CCTV catches the sight of a young Palestinian man suffering a similar fate; in another young women, children, men in a real civil war turn against each other, run from each other – all the same colour – but it may as well be happening on another planet.

    And America burns.

    Perhaps it should.

    Perhaps it deserves to.

    Perhaps it needs to.

    To clear out the dead wood and begin a process of renewal.

    Protest if you must but do it with some elan, and intelligently, and in a way that might transcend whatever you think protest even means. At what point during a protest do you need to overturn an ambulance? At what point do you drag a truck driver from his truck and exhort to 'kill him'? At what point do you decide during a protest that “Oh, I need some new sneakers. And how about a new telly.

    Mahatma Gandhi went on a Salt March - more of a peaceful walk really - from one end of a continent to another, while this generation walks from one end of a street to another wantonly destroying everything in its path; cheerfully goosesteps its way to a neurocidal oblivion; virtue signals its way to extinction (how vapid that rebellion seems now) in a virtual world, of someone else’s design; true respect for oneself and others being rent to ashes on the bonfires of their own vanity. To satisfy the nihilistic and narcissistic whims of their owners and to have abandoned their own sovereignty, self respect and dignity to those devious marionettists.

    There is a war in heaven and Hera drops her mirror in the hope that someone will find it and may pay attention to its contents.

    And I did.

    Quiescence meets quintessence in that reflection, locked in a passionate embrace.

    And I like the colour of that.

    It’s polychrome.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: All Lives Matter

    Until we get the crooks off our backs, none of these other things will amount to anything more than politically correct victimhood.

    Pragmatics, pragmatics, pragmatics. We are where we are, and right now it's the last straight into the US election 2020. 'Left' and 'right' are guarding that gate.

    All notions that we are going to have to live with the crooks because they are some kind of cosmic sanctioned overlords are foolish and fake and really part of the problem.

    It's the crooks or us. They have made that plain enough.

    Stop playing by their cunning rules of thought, and put an end to them.
    .................................................. my first language is TYPO..............................................

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