The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

[Dorjezigzag]

Posted by Ken (here)

Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)
...Just how harmful emocracy is became clear a week ago, when the following headlines appeared: “’It was getting ugly’: Native American drummer speaks on his encounter with MAGA-hat-wearing teens.” And: “Boys in ‘Make America Great Again’ Hats Mob Native Elder at Indigenous Peoples March.” The former was in The Washington Post; the latter The New York Times. The reports were calculated to elicit a torrent of emotion. And they did...[/URL]

Dorjezigzag, I'm not sure why you are posting this on the thread, The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

First of all, this has nothing to do with the dangers of “living while black” in the USA, second, this event occurred in January of 2019.

Your post might seem to some as if you are trolling this thread.. or me.

My I think a moderator is getting a little emotional

That post is on topic in reference to the 2 posts above it where you wrote

I think heart is what we need more of. More heart and intuition and less analytical thinking.

I know from having worked through a number of statistics courses in pursuit of my graduate degrees, statistics are highly malleable, easily manipulated, and often deliberately skewed. The way data is collected is often flawed even in the best-case scenarios, and intentionally filtered and misrepresented in other cases. As the not so old computer programming saying goes, “Garbage in, garbage out.” This is a term widely used in statistics as well.

But don’t let me dissuade you from your mental gymnastics.. your cerebral contortions. I recognize that there are many agendas and influences that have been inserted into this issue.. this movement.

It’s just not the way that I am guided.

and Autumn wrote

You not only have to feel with your heart, you have to think with it, too. Like Mike, I am highly emotional and afraid of either losing control of my emotions or being suckered as a consequence of them. I retreat into the analytical to protect myself (and others around me. LOL)

What's interesting to me, is this part of my personality is undergoing a rapid change and it has something to do with George Floyd's death. It made me cry, and after that happened, I was able to cry about injustices that have always bothered me, always gotten under my skin. I just never let them touch my heart before. I was too protected.

The post is a response to that way of perceiving and is extremely relevant to the thread especially considering your emotionally charged abusive actions.

It also points out how the actions of the black Hebrew isrealites was ignored because it did not intensify the emotional narrative that they were trying to create.

Again not sure why I have to explain this to you, perhaps if you calm down you may be able to think clearer.

Please do not remove it again you are just showing your prejudice

[onawah]

Soros Helps Crash the US
For transcript, see: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1362202

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MmHO5YWd6A0

[Forest Denizen]

Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)
The post is a response to that way of perceiving and is extremely relevant to the thread especially considering your emotionally charged abusive actions.

Fine. I'm sure you must realize that this happened a year-and-a-half ago. You seem highly emotionally invested in this issue here in the US. Perhaps you could bring in some more recent relevant material from your side of the pond?

[Dorjezigzag]

Posted by Ken (here)

Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)
The post is a response to that way of perceiving and is extremely relevant to the thread especially considering your emotionally charged abusive actions.

Fine. I'm sure you must realize that this happened a year-and-a-half ago. You seem highly emotionally invested in this issue here in the US.

Curious that you make that point to me and yet you didn't to autumn who cited examples from many years before my one, I really don't think you are fit to be a moderator who should remain impartial.

Below is quote from Autumn

In 2015, The Washington Post began to log every fatal shooting by an on-duty police officer in the United States. In that time there have been more than 5,000 such shootings recorded by The Post.

After Michael Brown, an unarmed black man, was killed in 2014 by police in Ferguson, Mo., a Post investigation found that the FBI undercounted fatal police shootings by more than half. This is because reporting by police departments is voluntary and many departments fail to do so.

The Post’s data relies primarily on news accounts, social media postings and police reports. Analysis of more than five years of data reveals that the number and circumstances of fatal shootings and the overall demographics of the victims have remained relatively constant.

Perhaps you could bring in some more recent relevant material from your side of the pond?

I guess my many years working out of the USA perked my interest in that country I am probably more widely travelled in the USA than many Americans on this forum. Again interesting that you have not made this point to the many other forum members not from the USA.

Besides the title of thread is The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

[AutumnW]

Dorj,

I sense you are attempting to associate compassion and feelings of grief with over the top emotion. Further to that, if one is feeling the over the top emotion they won't be able to think in the manner that suits YOU, which will involve getting lost in a maze of conspiracy theories.

The video of George Floyd is not doctored. It hasn't been purposely cut to create a false impression. Can people of all leanings jump to wrong conclusions based on their world view, when watching deceptive editing? Sure...but that's not the case here.

A man died unnecessarily at the hands of a cop. It is heart wrenching and made more so by the fact that it is a much more common occurrence than many of us realized in the past.

What does being disagreed with bring up for you? Does it make you angry? That's an emotion too. Lots of simmering angry people out there think they are "above" emotion when they are stewing in it. Just asking. I can't know what you are feeling.

[Dorjezigzag]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Dorj,

I sense you are attempting to associate compassion and feelings of grief with over the top emotion. Further to that, if one is feeling the over the top emotion they won't be able to think in the manner that suits YOU, which will involve getting lost in a maze of conspiracy theories.

The video of George Floyd is not doctored. It hasn't been purposely cut to create a false impression. Can people of all leanings jump to wrong conclusions based on their world view, when watching deceptive editing? Sure...but that's not the case here.

A man died unnecessarily at the hands of a cop. It is heart wrenching and made more so by the fact that it is a much more common occurrence than many of us realized in the past.

What does being disagreed with bring up for you? Does it make you angry? That's an emotion too. Lots of simmering angry people out there think they are "above" emotion when they are stewing in it. Just asking. I can't know what you are feeling.

No I'm fine with being disagreed with, I really am, being abused with inappropriate name calling and abusively moderated that I'm not too keen on.

Where did I state that

The video of George Floyd is not doctored. It hasn't been purposely cut to create a false impression. Can people of all leanings jump to wrong conclusions based on their world view, when watching deceptive editing? Sure...but that's not the case here.

nowhere, of course my heart feels for George Floyd, how did your heart feel for tony timpa who died under similar circumstances, and yet there was no media frenzy over that, and why was that, these incidents happen. We need to think clearly how we lessen the occurrence of this happening not go on an emotional frenzy of cop baiting leading to many more deaths

[AutumnW]

Dorj

I read about Tony Timpa, a mentally ill man, so also a member of a minority group. The cops knew this before they interacted with him. He called the police for help because he was having a hard time and needed assistance.

These actions on the part of the police are becoming all too common and the idea that it is just a few rotten apples may apply in small towns but in larger boroughs, the rotten apples are starting to outnumber the good cops.

At this time, nobody should be cutting cops slack. They don't deserve it. Part of that is due to how they are trained. That has to change immediately and they have to be demilitarized and the funding for that training has to be relegated to social and psychiatric services.

I assumed you were harshly moderated about the Black Israeli episode with the Indian fellow chanting in a young guy's face? And mentioned that the video was edited to fit a narrative, not tell the truth. I imagine you were one that picked up on that. So, should have explained that in my prior post.

Anyway, back to the topic!

[Gemma13]

That has to change immediately and they have to be demilitarized and the funding for that training has to be relegated to social and psychiatric services.

BIG MISTAKE.  And another clue to stakeholders in the bigger picture strategy.

[Mike]

I think this belongs in this thread. Sam Harris gives what I feel is a pretty fair and objective analysis of the current relationship between the police and black folks here in the U.S.

About 10 mins long:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=5nyu_JpnBXo

[Forest Denizen]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=sJAhHE-w1ZA

Posted at 6:44 PM, Aug 03, 2020 and last updated 9:06 AM, Aug 04, 2020

AURORA, Colo. — Police detained and handcuffed a Black mother and four children after mistaking their SUV for a stolen motorcycle from another state.

It happened in the parking lot of a shopping center off of Buckley Road and E. Iliff Avenue Sunday morning.

“Why are you now placing these children on the ground face into the concrete? It's hot! In front of all of us? Screaming at them. They are telling you they are hurt,” witness Jenni Wurtz said.

Wurtz recorded the incident along with several other witnesses.

She says a police car slowly pulled behind the family. The officer drew their weapon on the family and ordered them out of the car. Several of the children were handcuffed.

“That makes me very mad, because I am not anti-police. I’m anti what happened yesterday, and that was ridiculous,” Wurtz said.

The car the family was driving was not stolen. Police used a license plate scanner to gather information on vehicles in the area. They should have been looking for a motorcycle with the same plate from another state.

Interim Chief Wilson blamed the license plate reader but could not explain why the dozens of officers who responded did not confirm the vehicle description.

“I totally understand that anger, and don’t want to diminish that anger, but I will say it wasn’t a profiling incident. It was a hit that came through the system, and they have a picture of the vehicle the officers saw,” Wilson said, defending her officers’ actions.

After officers realized the mistake, the family was uncuffed but more officers continued to arrive. Video shows over a dozen officers standing around the traumatized family.

“I do not think a stolen vehicle is worth traumatizing the lives of children. On top of that, I was 20-feet away with a drawn gun. They didn’t even tell me to move, secure the scene. They didn’t do anything,” Wurtz said.

Wurtz filed a complaint with internal affairs. She believes the police department's policy needs to change.

By Monday evening, an internal investigation was underway following the incident, according to Wilson.

"We first want to offer our apologies to the family involved in the traumatic incident involving a police stop of their vehicle yesterday.

"We have been training our officers that when they contact a suspected stolen car, they should do what is called a high-risk stop. This involves drawing their weapons and ordering all occupants to exit the car and lie prone on the ground. But we must allow our officers to have discretion and to deviate from this process when different scenarios present themselves. I have already directed my team to look at new practices and training," Wilson said in a prepared statement. "I have called the family to apologize and to offer any help we can provide, especially for the children who may have been traumatized by yesterday's events. I have reached out to our victim advocates so we can offer age-appropriate therapy that the city will cover."

Aurora Mayor Mike Coffman issued a statement Tuesday morning about the incident: “I have spoken with Interim Chief Wilson about this unfortunate incident, and we both believe this was improper and traumatizing to the children. What happened is being thoroughly investigated, and I will continue to follow up to make sure changes in training and procedures take place. I am sorry for the pain, fear and confusion this family unnecessarily faced.”

[Forest Denizen]

And an interesting new-ish phenomenon..

[Jake]

Did someone Really say that they can easily picture us in KKK gear? Wow. That's fairly revealing. Perhaps if you spent less time fantasizing about the KKK, you wouldn't see racism everywhere you look. Just saying.

Jake

[Mike]

There are 40 to 50 million police/civilian interactions annually, and 99% of them are uneventful. It was kind of that woman to witness the traffic stop, and if stuff like this improves black/white relations I'm all for it, but her suspicion is drawn mostly from hysteria imo.

[Michelle]

Racism can be in ANY culture. It makes no difference if your black or white. I am white and grew up in the projects of Milwaukee WI. It was awful. We were constantly targeted because of the color of our skin. Much love to the black families that protected us during this time.

Our house got broken into and all our Christmas presents were stolen. I was jumped several times and beaten. My older brother was jumped a few times. I remember my parents bought him a new bike for his birthday. He rode it around the block once and a group of kids punched him in the face and stole his bike. I still can remember him coming home bloody and crying.

One day the corner store was being robbed and my father was holding my little sister. A gun was aimed at him. I remember whimpering so bad... We also couldn’t wear any new clothes in the projects because my parents were terrified we’d get hurt and our new shoes or jackets stolen. I could go into my high school years that had metal detectors and security posted in the halls and the nightmare that was, but I digress. What I am saying is racism goes both ways too. Despite all this, I’ve always loved my black community♥️ I understood the pain and poverty all to well. It’s so sad to see it unraveling at the seams.

Police are under so much pressure. When drugs started being pumped into these communities, Violence and guns took on a whole new level. I remember a teenager was shot to death under my windowsill. I cried all night. Its absolutely frightening. The cops are literally in a war zone. If you haven't lived through it, it seems unbelievable. I always felt like they were trying to help the community. We need them♥️ It’s a terrible situation. They just see so much violence everyday. It’s no excuse for police brutality. The violence and the lack of regard for human life takes its toll on everyone. I know it did on me

Instead of going back and forth on this thread on who’s racist and who’s not, we need to focus on how we can clean up these communities. Nobody’s talking about that. It’s all just divisive rhetoric. We need to tackle the unprecedented violence in these communities. The teen mothers with absent fathers, the drug addiction, the corrupt school boards syphoning off money away from children’s education, small businesses that get robbed and bullied and move away from all the violence leaving little opportunity for work, -I hate typing this because I do like rap, but damnit the rap that just perpetuates bad behavior and degrades women!

So a good thread where we ALL could come together on here is ways we could stand together to help these communities. Nothing is being accomplished here. I’ve talked with my black friends and half of my family is black. They are not feeling what’s being said as far as being scared to be who they are.

As a silly note if you’ve ever listened to my blended family, you would think we’re all racists. We make fun of each other’s race so bad that we just laugh. Like Chis says on here. Look past color. We are all individuals (your my favorite Chris) and see people for people.

Much love♥️
Michelle

[Forest Denizen]

[Gracy]

Posted by Ken (here)

Well first off, that cocky ass arrogant pose of his is a big turn off. But that aside Ken, what evidence do we have besides he's had formal charges against him, in a very politically charged environment?

I'll reserve initial judgment pending some body cam footage.

[Bill Ryan]

The problem is, it works both ways.

All Lives Matter.

Read this. The article very carefully avoids mentioning the color of the elderly man's attackers — until, of course, you see the photos.

• https://ntd.com/80-year-old-who-was-...ly_497810.html

80-Year-Old Who Was Attacked, Robbed at California Grocery Store Dies

20 August, 2020

I'll not copy the whole article: anyone can read it at the link above.

Here is the poor man, before and after. His name was Roberto Flores-Lopez. I wonder who will remember him.





Lancaster Sheriff’s Station detectives announced the arrest of 22-year-old Damaris Wade and 33-year-old Tamika White, who surrendered themselves to authorities after police identified the suspects in a surveillance video of the attack.

https://twitter.com/LANLASD/status/1282192774649884673

[Forest Denizen]

Truly awful, Bill; however, I really don’t see how this post is relevant here. This was a man attacked by a despicable thug. The man wasn’t, it seems, attacked due to his ethnicity or the color of his skin. He was the victim of a senseless and horrible crime by an individual who happened to be black. Can you further explain why you feel this post should go here? I really am just trying to understand your viewpoint

[Sirus]

Posted by Ken (here)
Truly awful, Bill; however, I really don’t see how this post is relevant here. This was a man attacked by a despicable thug. The man wasn’t, it seems, attacked due to his ethnicity or the color of his skin. He was the victim of a senseless and horrible crime by an individual who happened to be black. Can you further explain why you feel this post should go here? I really am just trying to understand your viewpoint

The outrage seems to only happen when the attackers are white, or initially thought to be white (like in the case of Trayvon Martin for example)

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Sirus (here)
Can you further explain why you feel this post should go here? I really am just trying to understand your viewpoint

I can across it last night by accident, and was appalled. It seems to be that the real thread title should be The Dangers of Living in the USA. Color has nothing to do with it.

I'm really just redressing the imbalance.