The Dangers of “Living While Black” in the USA

[Gracy]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
It's hard to believe what has happened to this forum. Hard to believe, disappointing and just sad. Half the members don't want to mask up, yet I can easily picture them in KKK gear.

Come on now Jess…

Posted by Ken (here)
Dorjezigzag, I expected you’d jump in with this stale racist trope.

And I'm going to have to say the same to Ken. Come on man.

Folks, we need clear, objective as possible heads on this stuff, in order to to stand any chance at all of coming to mutual understandings on these extremely complex, controversial, and divisive issues.

We don't necessarily need to agree with one another, that's never expected at a place so intelligent and diverse as this, but mutual respect is a must.

[Mike]

Posted by AutumnW (here)

Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
Thank you Ken for starting this thread. I found that other thread on the topic sooo disappointing and even painful.

The amount of defensiveness and attempts to minimise the direness of the situation for people of color was not what I expected here.

How anyone cannot see that people of color have an extra layer challenge that is unjust is beyond me. How anyone could not see that this is not ok and that ....while there may be other reasons agenda wise regarding why this being brought up now ... that doesn't mean the problem isn't real and anyone who wants to brush over it is part of the problem.
How can anyone say this is ok.....

36% of unarmed people killed by police were black in 2015 despite black people being only 13% of the U.S. populationUnarmed black people were killed at 5x the rate of unarmed whites in 2015Only 13 of the 104 cases in 2015 where an unarmed black person was killed by police resulted in officer(s) being charged with a crime. 4 of these cases have ended in a mistrial or charges against the officer(s) being dropped and 4 cases are still awaiting trial or have a trial underway. Only 4 cases (Matthew Ajibade, Eric Harris, Paterson Brown Jr., and William Chapman) have resulted in convictions of officers involved, with a fifth case (Walter Scott) resulting in the officer pleading guilty. Of the 4 cases where the officer(s) involved have been convicted and sentenced, none were sentenced to serve more than 4 years in prison.

All lives can't matter unless ....black lives matter...too!

It's hard to believe what has happened to this forum. Hard to believe, disappointing and just sad. Half the members don't want to mask up, yet I can easily picture them in KKK gear.

half the avalon members are KKK? interesting stat! where's the link?

Jess I heard the stat about 9 of 250 being unarmed twice - once on the Ben Shapiro show and once on the Steven Crowder show. Let me guess, not a fan? Of course, but these are 2 very high profile guys who wouldn't be offering up bogus statistics to millions of listeners.

Here's Ben at the 5:40 mark: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=932476043880244

I'm still searching for the Crowder show I heard that on. Meanwhile I've sent Shapiro a FB message asking where he got the stat. I'll get back to you if he responds.

The rest of those stats are easily accessible on the web.

[Antagenet]

No one who has any humanity at all should EVER be shamed, or have to take a "Shame Walk". Not for what they have done, let alone what others in whatever so called group they belong to did in the past or do in the present. Shaming never helps anyone. Not victims, not even perpetrators. What helps is understanding. What helps is making amends when the person is ready, but that is not the same as "reparations". Reparations is a demand that is a condenmnation like the barrel of a gun pointing at their face. You think this ever creates healing or togetherness? I ****ing would NEVER take a knee to anyone one earth who was trying to shame me. I would get in their face and say, "you dont know me, you dont know how hard my life has been. I bet you would never want to trade places with me.. so take all your preconceived ideas and shove them. I dont ask you to kneel for me and you shouldnt ask me to kneel for you. I dont even thing we should kneel together, because there is NO SUCH THING as making up for what happened in the past. There is only doing good in the future. There is only a chance to heal and this never comes from division.
The elites those ****ing sociopaths really are adept at getting us all to hate each other. They are using race as a trigger now and I find it disgusting. There I have said my peace.
Anyone who wants to judge me without asking me about 20 question to get to know me you can go FK yourself.

[AutumnW]

Mike I sent you a pm from Washington Post with stats the other day. The stats for whites shot by cops was slightly more than blacks shot by cops. However...and we discussed this. The fatality rate was way higher. In other words the cops were shooting to kill black men.

As far as Shapiro goes, of course I don't trust him or anyone who would dismiss valid protests by a racial minority. Nobody is asking you poor white guys to feel personally guilty for anything other than denying murder by cop happens disproportionately in the black community. When you use stats from those committed to distort (ther careers depend on it)you can feel responsible for that. Yes. You should bloody well know better.

[Mike]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Mike I sent you a pm from Washington Post with stats the other day. The stats for whites shot by cops was slightly more than blacks shot by cops. However...and we discussed this. The fatality rate was way higher. In other words the cops were shooting to kill black men.

As far as Shapiro goes, of course I don't trust him or anyone who would dismiss valid protests by a racial minority. Nobody is asking you poor white guys to feel personally guilty for anything other than denying murder by cop happens disproportionately in the black community. When you use stats from those committed to distort (ther careers depend on it)you can feel responsible for that. Yes. You should bloody well know better.

so you think he made it up then? just conjured it out of thin air. him and steven crowder?

why would they do that?? to discredit themselves in front of millions of viewers?

i'm working on gettin the stat for you. sit tight. i'll get it

[AutumnW]

Same...did you get the PM with Washington Post stats? Do I think Shapiro would lie? No. Twist facts? Yes.

[Mike]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Same...did you get the PM with Washington Post stats? Do I think Shapiro would lie? No. Twist facts? Yes.

hmm. i don't think i got a pm with washington post stats from you. but you left a link for it in a post on one of the other threads. is that maybe what you're referring to?

[Franny]

Mike, I don't think the issue is so much who commits crime, numbers and percentages although it's part of an overall problem.

It's the heavy cloud, the pressure and stress, black people live under when driving while black, attending class, working, jogging or shopping while black, just living while black.

Please read Mark's post from the Racism thread. He shows how he has to conduct himself in such a way as to not offend or upset the people he comes across as he goes through his day in a way white people don't need to be concerned with.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1197433

I wake up and get dressed, leave my house to go to work. At the stop light, I happen to look over at a lady in the car next to me. She meets my gaze and looks away quickly, then I see the lock in her car go down. I return my eyes to the road. A little later, a car veers into my lane and I honk. As I move up by the guy, an older man, he looks at me, shakes his fist and I can see his mouth moving. He is still screaming and gesticulating to himself as I leave him behind.

I arrive at work and breath deeply before getting out of the car, looking into the mirror, raising my brow and smiling. I center and ground consciously, releasing thought and misgiving to prepare for the day.

I get out and enter the building, speaking to those I know jovially, adjusting my auric output to openness and caring, making sure to meet eyes and respond individually, reinforcing the sense of community. I get on the elevator and a woman I don't know is there. She sees me and her eyes widen a bit before she looks away and moves to the side of the elevator, clasping her purse firmly to her side and staring straight ahead. During the day, all progresses usually, a story about Drumpf comes on the radio and, since the job is tense around politics, people are silent for the most part but eyes rise above cubicles and dog whistles blare loudly. I go to get a drink of water at the cooler and interrupt a small group of liberals talking quietly. I laugh at something they say and the group breaks up and each moves back to their spaces.

At lunch I go out alone and see a group of my coworkers behind me as we enter a restaurant. I sit first and order, and see them order about five minutes later with another wait staff on the other side of the restaurant. We only have half an hour but I make note of the fact that all of their orders came 10 minutes before mine did. The afternoon passes relatively uneventfully except for a short meeting after work, where the boss remonstrates the staff for talking about politics around the water cooler. I hadn't seen him around and wonder idly who told him. It could have been anyone, really.

That evening, as I walk the dog into the park I ignore numerous instances of the "calling of the children" and the belligerent stares of protective fathers. Later, returning home and going down the street a woman at the other end of the block crosses the street and continues along her path. As I near my house a police cruiser slows down and I do not look but sense the eyes hard on me. I make it home and close the door, lean on it and close my eyes, breathing deeply.

The above is a dramatization of different times and spaces in my daily life. While this particular series of events has never happened in exactly this order on any day of my life, each event that you see represented here has happened countless times in my life. Beyond count. Over and over again.

In a nation where so many people consider themselves to be individuals, far too many seem to be acting out some sort of program. Engaging in the same seeming thought pattern and reaction as others a quarter or a half or a full nation away.

Some years ago I met Dora in a meditation class, we hit it off like people sometimes do even though she was younger by five or 6 years and black. Eventually we became housemates.

We were having a conversation one night and at some point I asked her if she ever felt uncomfortable in the class which was mostly white, but also Asian, Jewish, black, South American and more. She said that she really didn't but was always waiting for something to go wrong and be perceived as the problem, it's part of being black.

I knew this but had never lived it, of course. I saw it when we went out for a meal occasionally; the looks, the longer wait for a waitress. It didn't happen every time but it was noticeable when it did.

She related some of the usual stories of being followed in stores and shops or not being allowed in at all. Stories of being stopped and questioned, of being watched closely as if she might be dangerous. Maybe she was a bit dangerous, she was working on her brown belt in martial arts.

One of the stories that stood out to me was about an experience her mom had had just a few years prior. Her mother was educated, with a degree and worked as a professional person, an engineer or analyst, don't quite recall.

One Friday a co-worker approached her and told her she needed a dress or some item hemmed or repaired, needed it Monday, dropped it on her desk and walked away. Her mother handled it but it caused some upset in the office, most colleagues backing her mother and a few others backing the co-worker.

Serious question: what kind of person behaves in that way?

Dora grew up in a military family where both parents, she and all siblings, were educated and held degrees. But this intelligent, educated young woman, conservatively and very neatly dressed in a business suit was followed when she entered a shop most of the time. She was living while black; and the stress, she told me, was a constant and could undo her some days.

The black experience is a bit different from the white experience even if the black person grows up just as economically advantaged or disadvantaged as their white counterpart.

Apologies for not having expressed this as well as it could have been, on sleep deficit this week

[Dorjezigzag]

Next thing those riding this current wave of virtue signalling on avalon can get together and make a video about how bad white people are like this one done by celebrities. A must watch, my black friends find it hilarious.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tfJPTf4eQ5c

[AutumnW]

In 2015, The Washington Post began to log every fatal shooting by an on-duty police officer in the United States. In that time there have been more than 5,000 such shootings recorded by The Post.

After Michael Brown, an unarmed black man, was killed in 2014 by police in Ferguson, Mo., a Post investigation found that the FBI undercounted fatal police shootings by more than half. This is because reporting by police departments is voluntary and many departments fail to do so.

The Post’s data relies primarily on news accounts, social media postings and police reports. Analysis of more than five years of data reveals that the number and circumstances of fatal shootings and the overall demographics of the victims have remained relatively constant.

Although half of the people shot and killed by police are white, black Americans are shot at a disproportionate rate. They account for less than 13 percent of the U.S. population, but are killed by police at more than twice the rate of white Americans. Hispanic Americans are also killed by police at a disproportionate rate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ings-database/

You have to ask yourselves, would guys like Ben Shapiro twist this to support their debating position. It happens all the time.

[AutumnW]

Sorry Mike and Dorz, I get very hot under the collar about this issue, as you can see. And Franny! Excellent first hand account. Thank you . You wrote it up beautifully.

A huge part of the problem is media has become more purely propaganda, particularly social media, like Facebook. There's a lot of money to be made by proclaiming things often and loudly and with a sense of certainty.

People honestly don't know what to believe. I don't trust Washington Post for everything, by a long shot, but I do trust their stats on the number of fatalities caused by police. They kind of represent the elite and the article I posted runs counter to what you would call an elite agenda. THAT kind of counter trend in reporting, makes me pay attention.

[AutumnW]

Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)
Next thing those riding this current wave of virtue signalling on avalon can get together and make a video about how bad white people are like this one done by celebrities. A must watch, my black friends find it hilarious.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tfJPTf4eQ5c

Being genuinely alarmed by blinkered thinking isn't virtue signalling. Nobody is asking you to kiss anybody's ass, D, but just try stepping outside of your usual media and read or watch across a broader spectrum. We don't have to be on the very same page or even in the same book, but being somewhere in the same library would help.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Same...did you get the PM with Washington Post stats? Do I think Shapiro would lie? No. Twist facts? Yes.

hmm. i don't think i got a pm with washington post stats from you. but you left a link for it in a post on one of the other threads. is that maybe what you're referring to?

Probably! But the link I added above is entirely different. It fleshes things out more.

[Dorjezigzag]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
In 2015, The Washington Post began to log every fatal shooting by an on-duty police officer in the United States. In that time there have been more than 5,000 such shootings recorded by The Post.

After Michael Brown, an unarmed black man, was killed in 2014 by police in Ferguson, Mo., a Post investigation found that the FBI undercounted fatal police shootings by more than half. This is because reporting by police departments is voluntary and many departments fail to do so.

The Post’s data relies primarily on news accounts, social media postings and police reports. Analysis of more than five years of data reveals that the number and circumstances of fatal shootings and the overall demographics of the victims have remained relatively constant.

Although half of the people shot and killed by police are white, black Americans are shot at a disproportionate rate. They account for less than 13 percent of the U.S. population, but are killed by police at more than twice the rate of white Americans. Hispanic Americans are also killed by police at a disproportionate rate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ings-database/

You have to ask yourselves, would guys like Ben Shapiro twist this to support their debating position. It happens all the time.

OMG you talk about others twisting statistics, You get shot at a rate proportionate to the violent crime you commit not as your percentage of the population, well for the most part.

So are they going to introduce shooting quotas that only 16% of shootings are allowed to be on black people even when they commit close to 50% of homicides.

White men actually get shot a lot more than black men despite committing less crime.

Very good factual link here,

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

[Dorjezigzag]

Posted by AutumnW (here)

Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)
Next thing those riding this current wave of virtue signalling on avalon can get together and make a video about how bad white people are like this one done by celebrities. A must watch, my black friends find it hilarious.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tfJPTf4eQ5c

Being genuinely alarmed by blinkered thinking isn't virtue signalling. Nobody is asking you to kiss anybody's ass, D, but just try stepping outside of your usual media and read or watch across a broader spectrum. We don't have to be on the very same page or even in the same book, but being somewhere in the same library would help.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Same...did you get the PM with Washington Post stats? Do I think Shapiro would lie? No. Twist facts? Yes.

hmm. i don't think i got a pm with washington post stats from you. but you left a link for it in a post on one of the other threads. is that maybe what you're referring to?

Probably! But the link I added above is entirely different. It fleshes things out more.

I think you would be surprised at my media read, some with long memories may recall me defending Russell brand and socialism, I was hated for that as well lol. I am interested in what a lot of those on the left say, indeed I wouldn't place myself on the right although I seem to be being forced there. I have a great respect for the writings of Naomi Klein and Noam Chomsky amongst others and will listen to what they have to say. An important value for me though is freedom of speech and this seems to be eroding on the left, this thread being a classic example.

[AutumnW]

Statista is relying on official reports. Look at the Washington Posts numbers, please. And as Blacks make up a large part of the underclass, where crime has always been more of a problem, I trust your 50% number. That is the black on black crime you mentioned before, I believe. But people are not shot by cops during the commission of murder. The cops generally arrive after a murder is committed. That goes for everybody. That means a goodly number are being killed for "resisting arrest," etc...

Please read the more accurate numbers from WAPO. Thank you.

[palehorse]

What if the black brother is wealth? Is it still a matter of racism?
Of course not.

I have witnessed several times, the white man smashing the poor and if is Black, Aborigene or Asian then it is a double smash, I proudly shout "racist" when I see it and one time got into some trouble, but I do not care.

I like to see the black brother climbing up the food chain as well everybody who deserve that, I really feel happy and I wish more and more get there working hard their way up.

But now and ever what is wrong with some white folks, do they think they are a better race or deserve more due to their skin color?

Please someone explain it to me, because in my mind I can't see any difference. I am really tired about this BS.

[Mike]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Sorry Mike and Dorz, I get very hot under the collar about this issue, as you can see. And Franny! Excellent first hand account. Thank you . You wrote it up beautifully.

A huge part of the problem is media has become more purely propaganda, particularly social media, like Facebook. There's a lot of money to be made by proclaiming things often and loudly and with a sense of certainty.

People honestly don't know what to believe. I don't trust Washington Post for everything, by a long shot, but I do trust their stats on the number of fatalities caused by police. They kind of represent the elite and the article I posted runs counter to what you would call an elite agenda. THAT kind of counter trend in reporting, makes me pay attention.

no worries jess. none at all. i know where your heart is and i totally respect it and you. 150%. you're the best, and i'd happily shout that from the rooftops.

as i was saying earlier to a friend, i'm actually a very agreeable person. i know i seem stubborn and unreasonable to some of you but it would actually be very easy for a guy like me to give all this up in favor of a big kumbaya moment and offer everyone here a big huge virtual hug and call it a day on all this stuff. a very large part of me would absolutely love to do that.

and i'm not blind to injustice in the world. i see it! it's heartbreaking. i'm actually kind of a softie, and my greatest fear in expressing too much of that is that it'll be weaponized and used against me. i see a lot of that going on now in the world. so i'm on guard against it. it's possible i'm too on guard. i don't know.

my greatest fear is the postmodern, social justice ideology being ushered in as a result of the recent tragedy with george floyd. in emphasizing that so much, i have likely missed some opportunities to express my compassionate, humanitarian side for those that are out there suffering in the world. i acknowledge that.

but i will always stand by my principles and my values. they're all i've got! it's been pretty heated here lately, and will get heated again i'm sure, but i respect you all. a little bit of guff and back and forth can be pretty cathartic if you make it to the other end without imploding. i think we're all doing pretty good there, despite the obvious tension.

[Mike]

Franny, you expressed all that beautifully. thanks for sharing about Dora!

I hadn't seen that part about Mark until I read it just there. That made me queasy. It's absolutely demoralizing. The behavior of those people was detestable.

I think there is a story behind the stats and the data that reflects both their validity and their tendency to mislead. they represent an imperfect tool we're all using as we stumble forward towards some sort of clearer understanding of what's going on in the country (and the world) today.

[Tam]

I wasn't going to mention it but as you bring up the 84% compared to 93%, that basically means more black people are attacking white people than white people attacking black. Some of those attacks of blacks on whites will be racist attacks for instance they may have been incited by Marxists hell bent on race war who have been feeding the white privilege narrative. The majority of the killings though will just be down to circumstance with no race bases as with the white attacks on blacks, although on rare occasions they will happen

What an absolute load of bull****.

This is exactly why people here think you skirt the borders of racism. It's this kind of ignorance.

You're not a stupid person. You're not a bad person. No one here is trying to cancel anyone. But that was a stupid, bad thing to say, and I know you can do better, be better.

That 9% difference can be accounted for by one simple thing: poverty. And all the fun that it brings, like clockwork, in every place, ever, in the world. Broken homes. Substance abuse.

High crime rates.

The reason why there is black-on-black violence is because there is a much higher rate of poverty per capita in black people than there are in white people. Period.

So maybe, ask yourself, how is that the case?

And maybe then you will begin to understand why there's a BLM movement.

I know I'm borderline rude here, but seriously, I know you're better than this. It's why I'm pissed. You have been very lucid in the past. This is why your current opacity is so astounding. Where is this coming from?

[Matthew]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
...
It's hard to believe what has happened to this forum. Hard to believe, disappointing and just sad. Half the members don't want to mask up, yet I can easily picture them in KKK gear.

Um wut? "..easily [half the forum] in KKK gear."?

Are you sure you can easily see half the forum in KKK gear? There's something wrong with that picture. Even with the clumsiest of phrasing I see on the forum sometimes, I don't see what you see