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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Academia practices systemic racism against white cis gender men. It is a Nazi mentality and its happening under the radar of most people outside of academia. I only know about it because I have been following Jordan Peterson and Brett Weinstein, and I adore Weinstein, in particular.

    The really odd dynamic that is unfolding here is really about the two Americas, as so many have described on this thread. It is like two separate worlds and cultures and it divides, not city by city, or state by state, necessarily. It divides by neighbourhood.

    Isn't it weird that you can have academia, a middle class fortress, falling so far to the 'left' that people rightfully wonder if this is what an absurd form of Communism looks like?

    Its so obviously upside down and backwards that I theorized that gender studies or third wave feminism may have been pushed as part of a deep state psi-op, to fool people into associating the traditional left wing and democratic socialism with this kind of craziness.

    At the same time, in the other America, you have very clear cut abuses in the judicial system, that most middle class people of all skin colour have no familiarity with. But....blacks of all classes still have to be careful if they are on the streets of neighbourhoods where cops DO regard them as the enemy, by the color of their skin.

    This needn't be a polarizing issue, because those who have chosen one side or the other aren't wrong. They are just seeing seeing it from where they sit and what they have experienced. And as Tam described, we all live in bubbles, but never before have these bubbles been so fortified with class stratification.
    Last edited by AutumnW; 5th July 2020 at 19:43.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    A court in Philidephia recently accepted an appeal by Bill Cosby based on...you guessed it - systemic racism. If this is allowed to stand I can only imagine that every black person currently in prison in the USA regardless of crime will be filing an appeal.

    'Bill Cosby invokes systemic racism in appeal: 'It's about the destruction of ALL Black people'



    PHILADELPHIA — In a nearly empty Philadelphia courtroom in July 2015, a lawyer for Bill Cosby implored a federal judge to keep the comedian’s testimony in an old sexual battery lawsuit under wraps. It was sensitive. Embarrassing. Private.

    U.S. District Judge Eduardo Robreno had another word for it.

    The conduct Cosby detailed in his deposition was “perhaps criminal,” Robreno wrote five years ago Monday, in a momentous decision that released the case files to The Associated Press, reopened the police investigation, and helped give rise to the #MeToo movement.

    Cosby, the Hollywood paragon of Black family values, was convicted of sexual assault in 2018 as the movement exploded and women across the globe shared personal histories of sexual harassment and abuse. He is serving up to 10 years in prison.

    And now in the midst of another historic reckoning — this time addressing the treatment of African Americans and other people of color by police and the criminal justice system — the 82-year-old Cosby has won the right to an appeal.

    He hopes to use the moment to his advantage.

    “The false conviction of Bill Cosby is so much bigger than him — it’s about the destruction of ALL Black people and people of color in America,” Cosby spokesman Andrew Wyatt said when the court accepted the appeal late last month.

    Source: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...e2Odne26I-adIY
    Last edited by rgray222; 6th July 2020 at 22:28.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Typical Narcissistic deflection of blame on Cosby's part. Some people are in jail because they deserve to be. I'm sure there were no racist overlords forcing him to drug and rape young women. Man, he is loathsome!

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)

    Does that mean there are no high IQ children of color?
    All kinds of things could be happening, but it's important to recognize that "IQ" is really still a very crude concept, and it's actually pretty hard to quantify accurately. (I've encountered a lot of people with high measured IQs who are very dumb, unaware and limited. Many so-called "geniuses" are just good at solving puzzles, and little else.)

    Language and culture have a great deal to do with it, while there are definitely genetic predispositions to high levels of mental ability — of course. Intellectual potential is inherited, just as are other assets like strength, height, and so on. But other very variable factors include parenting (very major), early socialization (major), and early nutrition (quite major).

    The parenting thing includes early access to certain kinds of games, problem-solving toys, stimulating books, etc. Giving a toddler an iPad to watch cartoons and keep them quiet hardly cuts it when it comes to intellectual development.

    Hi,

    Saw this post and felt I could contribute to get it more clear.
    Bill, please let me elaborate as I see it as an important point in this discussion, so still on topic..

    I dove into this matter a while back and was surprised at the science amassed in roughly 100 years. Also studies by black scientists in Africa. The data is rather clear.
    See what I remember from the top of my head:

    The most recent studies said that IQ IS 80 % genetic at 18 years of age. 20% ( which is quite a lot!) room for other factors like nutrition, learning, culture etc.
    What would the wording for the genetic component be in your text?: super-duper-mega-major, maybe? : )

    Things that have been known to block development of the IQ: Violence toward children throughout their upbringing ( 6-9 points) cousin marriages/inbreeding (6-9 points) malnutrition ( don't remember..), probably several more.

    There are also ethnic differences in brain sizes, how the brain matter is built up ( white matter vs grey matter), and speed of development.
    Girls develop quicker, but boys develop further ( 4 points difference)
    Women are more clustered around the mean of the bell-curve, men more spread out ( more dumb, but also more smart men than women)
    Jewish mean 112, Asian 106, European 103, middle eastern 90, African 70, African-American 85.

    Ok, nerd out.

    This data is not readily talked about here in the west. In Asia it is more widely excepted I understood.
    The wages of people follow pretty closely the lines of IQ: On top Jewish people, then Asian followed by White, Hispanic and Black. On average.

    These natural differences seem to be suppressed in favour of ideological explanations that are the basis of the current trend:
    That it is the result of oppression and bigotry only, and nothing else.
    Very very dangerous, as we can see as of late. White supremacy? Without the White people in the top? Just wrong.

    All roads to real solutions, real empathy, and real responsibility get blocked this way and open up society to manipulations. There lies a big part of the "systemic" part, me reckons.
    The systemic suppression of scientific findings around ethnic differences and contributing them to other factors for power games. Very ugly.

    Love, O.
    Last edited by Orobo; 6th July 2020 at 23:50.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Orobo,

    The data in your post has been disputed successfully by real scientists. Your post lifts its info from the book, The Bell Curve, or comes from a site, like Stormfront, that lifted it from the book, The Bell Curve. The Bell Curve was written by Charles Murray and has provided ammunition for conservative governments who want to cut back social welfare programs that help the poor, many of whom are black.

    After-school programs, extracurricular sports activities and funding for basic education in black neighbourhoods has been cut back radically since this book was written, and though the author, Charles Murray isn't totally responsible for that, his book has helped buttress the racism that relies on ideas from the intellectual class to provide justification for their actions.

    The whole "defunding the police" meme is about turning this around and bringing back community social programs and demilitarizing policing while rerouting some funding towards programs that would prevent crime in the first place.

    I feel that if I accept the premise of his book without drilling down and getting different opinions, I am operating in a truly retarded manner.

    About the Bell Curve, from the Guardian newspaper

    "Murray's best-known book, The Bell Curve (1994), runs to more than 800 pages but can be summarised in a few sentences. Black people are more stupid than white people: always have been, always will be. This is why they have less economic and social success. Since the fault lies in their genes, they are doomed to be at the bottom of the heap now and forever."


    https://www.theguardian.com/Columnis...219249,00.html
    Last edited by AutumnW; 7th July 2020 at 22:08.

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  11. Link to Post #126
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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    We are complicit. Every last one of us.
    I'm not complicit in any damned thing.

    If you think I'm wrong, please explain. Really do.

    My bad, I should have made it clearer. Every last American is complicit in allowing the gears of the machine to perpetuate systemic racism.

    You, a UK national living in Ecuador, have no complicity whatsoever.

    If you'd like me to explain why Americans are complicit, I'd be happy to lay it out.
    I don't believe that for a moment (that all Americans are complicit). I know you mean well (of course! ), but that's
    1. Straight out of the SJW accusatory witch-hunt playbook. (See this important thread.)
    2. A projected guilt trip that has no foundation.
    3. An indictment of millions of Americans who aren't complicit in anything at all and never "oppressed" anyone.
    4. A covert instruction for all those people to take a knee in submissive apology for something most of them haven't done.
    You can't blame 200 million people (the estimated white population of America) for things that are systemic, i.e. institutional, financial, educational, and/or political.

    Each one of those 200 million is a unique individual, with their own upbringing, social background, culture, education, beliefs, values, and wealth and power (or in the vast majority of cases, no wealth or power at all).

    The system affects almost everyone. That's what systems do.

    And the same applies in other countries. The thread title is Systemic Racism in America. But this has to apply elsewhere as well.

    It'd be interesting to hear from our Australian friends here. Is there present-day systemic racism in Australia? I don't know for sure, but there certainly used to be. Was every Australian complicit, even then? Of course not.

    Read about what happened to Peter Norman, the 1968 200m Olympic silver medalist, whose whole life was wrecked because he supported the immensely brave stand taken by American athletes Tommie Smith and John Carlos, who famously gave their black power salute on the winners' podium.

    He wasn't complicit in Australian racism. He was a victim. (That may deserve its own detailed post on the Racism thread, or maybe even a thread of its own in his honor.)

    And there's racism in Ecuador, inasmuch as the indigenous people are certainly an underprivileged minority with a whole laundry list of legitimate longterm grievances. They're regarded as a kind of lower caste. (This is the case in many South American countries.) I'm resident here. Am I complicit? Of course not.

    There are close parallels in many other countries. India. South Africa. Nigeria. China.

    I could go on and on. (But I won't! )

    No-one can generalize like this.
    As the token Australian, of course there is still systemic racism here, I’ve already spoken to that earlier in this thread. Am I complicit, no, it would surprise some to hear me say that, but I do not agree with the blanket we are all to blame, I think it’s counterproductive and limiting.

    But, that doesn’t mean that I don’t have a role in breaking down barriers, addressing inequities, holding space for the pain of others and acknowledging the crimes that have been committed against them.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Academia practices systemic racism against white cis gender men. It is a Nazi mentality and its happening under the radar of most people outside of academia. I only know about it because I have been following Jordan Peterson and Brett Weinstein, and I adore Weinstein, in particular.

    The really odd dynamic that is unfolding here is really about the two Americas, as so many have described on this thread. It is like two separate worlds and cultures and it divides, not city by city, or state by state, necessarily. It divides by neighbourhood.

    Isn't it weird that you can have academia, a middle class fortress, falling so far to the 'left' that people rightfully wonder if this is what an absurd form of Communism looks like?

    Its so obviously upside down and backwards that I theorized that gender studies or third wave feminism may have been pushed as part of a deep state psi-op, to fool people into associating the traditional left wing and democratic socialism with this kind of craziness.

    At the same time, in the other America, you have very clear cut abuses in the judicial system, that most middle class people of all skin colour have no familiarity with. But....blacks of all classes still have to be careful if they are on the streets of neighbourhoods where cops DO regard them as the enemy, by the color of their skin.

    This needn't be a polarizing issue, because those who have chosen one side or the other aren't wrong. They are just seeing seeing it from where they sit and what they have experienced. And as Tam described, we all live in bubbles, but never before have these bubbles been so fortified with class stratification.
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Academia practices systemic racism against white cis gender men. It is a Nazi mentality and its happening under the radar of most people outside of academia. I only know about it because I have been following Jordan Peterson and Brett Weinstein, and I adore Weinstein, in particular.

    The really odd dynamic that is unfolding here is really about the two Americas, as so many have described on this thread. It is like two separate worlds and cultures and it divides, not city by city, or state by state, necessarily. It divides by neighbourhood.

    Isn't it weird that you can have academia, a middle class fortress, falling so far to the 'left' that people rightfully wonder if this is what an absurd form of Communism looks like?

    Its so obviously upside down and backwards that I theorized that gender studies or third wave feminism may have been pushed as part of a deep state psi-op, to fool people into associating the traditional left wing and democratic socialism with this kind of craziness.

    At the same time, in the other America, you have very clear cut abuses in the judicial system, that most middle class people of all skin colour have no familiarity with. But....blacks of all classes still have to be careful if they are on the streets of neighbourhoods where cops DO regard them as the enemy, by the color of their skin.

    This needn't be a polarizing issue, because those who have chosen one side or the other aren't wrong. They are just seeing seeing it from where they sit and what they have experienced. And as Tam described, we all live in bubbles, but never before have these bubbles been so fortified with class stratification.
    As a mother to three beautiful boys I can concur. Won’t surprise anyone to learn I’m a social worker but so is my eldest son. He feels he is being forced out of the sector because everyone thinks he’s going to magically turn into a rapist or a paedophile.

    Not the greatest fan of JBP, whilst I agree with some of his points, I disagree with many more and I try not to support people who can be as dangerous as he is. He espouses some pretty horrific ideas under his guise of reasonableness. I’d like to see some left wing commentators who can bring some reasonableness and cohesiveness to this space. My kids tell me to do it but I have a voice like an Australian valley girl 🤦🏻‍♀️

    I think the reason these issues become so polarising, is because there are many many white people who feel just as disenfranchised as POC. I grew up in a super super stratified town in Australia which was divided literally in half, or thirds really. One third where the rich lived, one third where the working classes lived and one third where the underclasses lived. Those underclasses experienced as much systemic abuse as any POC and no, their whiteness didn’t help them, in any meaningful way, in fact, it worked against them. Being Aboriginal would have meant they received support and services they could never get as a white person.

    It’s also interesting to note that the plight of the First Nation People’s of the US have been all but ignored throughout this. They are killed by police almost 3 times more often than white people, twice as often as black Americans.

    I’d also like to see that stats on people with a mental illness killed, or people living in poverty, and so on.

    Finding common ground here could only bring cohesiveness to this issue.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Jess I've been meaning to comment on your video about Jeffrey Deskovic.

    Upon watching I was immediately reminded of the Netflix series called "Making A Murderer", and the saga of Brendan Dassey and Steven Avery. Have you seen those? OMG, you absolutely must see those!

    There are more cases out there like this than I'd like to admit. I think Deskovic estimated something like 10,000 wrongful convictions each year. Watching these dramas unfold you keep thinking, ok, it will stop here at the court of appeals. Or, ok, surely the supreme court will put a stop to this madness....and then they don't. It is absolutely astounding!

    You can't help but conclude that the rot goes all the way to the top in these cases. Once the cops and the justice system begin doubling and tripling down on their bullsh!t, the stakes get higher and the price of getting exposed even more perilous. With each betrayal of justice the game gets more complex, and the tangled webs even more tangled. No way the system will be allowed to take the dive there, so guys like Avery and Deskovic do. It's often a sadistic and sick process. Evil, actually...I'd call it evil
    Last edited by Mike; 8th July 2020 at 16:21.
    [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg[/URL]

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Thanks for watching those, Mike. It's evil and evil can work through just about any system, if there aren't checks and balances from outside of the system. In Canada we still don't have an ombudsman acting outside of the police forces to act as a check and balance against abuse of power. The best we have are virtual citizen ombudsmen using cellphones to create more transparency. Canada's judicial system might be a little more fair but its policing isn't. And if police aren't held to account the rot will go right to the top.

    The U.S. judicial system...wow, just nasty and has been for a very very long time. It's only recently that much more attention has been paid to it by the middle class and upper class. Netflix...a force for change!

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Just Jane,

    I think the reason these issues become so polarising, is because there are many many white people who feel just as disenfranchised as POC. I grew up in a super super stratified town in Australia which was divided literally in half, or thirds really. One third where the rich lived, one third where the working classes lived and one third where the underclasses lived. Those underclasses experienced as much systemic abuse as any POC and no, their whiteness didn’t help them, in any meaningful way, in fact, it worked against them. Being Aboriginal would have meant they received support and services they could never get as a white person.


    Did the white underclass get the same treatment by the police? I would be interested to know. Every society is a little different! There are people regarded as disposable and those who aren't.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Orobo,

    The data in your post has been disputed successfully by real scientists. Your post lifts its info from the book, The Bell Curve, or comes from a site, like Stormfront, that lifted it from the book, The Bell Curve. The Bell Curve was written by Charles Murray and has provided ammunition for conservative governments who want to cut back social welfare programs that help the poor, many of whom are black.

    After-school programs, extracurricular sports activities and funding for basic education in black neighbourhoods has been cut back radically since this book was written, and though the author, Charles Murray isn't totally responsible for that, his book has helped buttress the racism that relies on ideas from the intellectual class to provide justification for their actions.

    The whole "defunding the police" meme is about turning this around and bringing back community social programs and demilitarizing policing while rerouting some funding towards programs that would prevent crime in the first place.

    I feel that if I accept the premise of his book without drilling down and getting different opinions, I am operating in a truly retarded manner.

    About the Bell Curve, from the Guardian newspaper

    "Murray's best-known book, The Bell Curve (1994), runs to more than 800 pages but can be summarised in a few sentences. Black people are more stupid than white people: always have been, always will be. This is why they have less economic and social success. Since the fault lies in their genes, they are doomed to be at the bottom of the heap now and forever."


    https://www.theguardian.com/Columnis...219249,00.html
    Hi Autumn,

    Quite the post here from you. This is exactly why we clashed last time. But it does not bother me. The gatekeeping bothers...frankly, our cause.

    The science stands, whether you like it or not. Whether stormfront or other "bad people" use it or not. It does not matter in which corner you wish to park me, or the science.
    Dr Murray suffered greatly for the science he unearthed. Unjustly, like many others that dared to touch the forbidden knowledge.

    What matters is that very evil people or entities use it to try to ruin everything for everyone for ever. Let that sink in.

    This, and other information about us humans is held back, distorted or spinned. For a reason, by those people who hate us. All of us.
    That is why I want to look at it, take it in and see where it fits on the grand board in front of me. And where it can help. You could too. Maybe even should.

    This information can definitely help. It is kind of the antidote to the narrative, the lies. It is about compassion, reason and love.
    That is why it is hammered inn... bad bad bad...as the heresy of the day.
    It is not. It just ís.

    I stopped going to that church you are citing from. Very boring and helps no one. Like the trillions blown on welfare and government plans. It all turns to ****. For a reason. You've read the forum up and down I suppose. Please consider this, for you, next paradigm, it is not scary or mean or retarded.

    Link to the science where you say it is refuted, I want to read it all. If I am wrong I will say so.


    Love, O.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Orobo,

    Wherever you have a caste system, you will have differences in average IQ in those entrenched in the bottom class. Poor education, lousy food, the effect of generational violence on the developing brain, exposure to lead. I could go on and on. This racial IQ canard isn't scientific at all.

    Trillions blown on welfare. Seriously? What country are you talking about? The U.S blows trillions on warfare, not welfare.

    You can argue that IQ is part of a general measure of an individual's intelligence, but your theory breaks down when it comes to extrapolating meaningful conclusions based on racial averages.

    There's plenty of studies out there that refute the conclusions you have come to based on the Bell Curve--that IQ is immutable and intrinsic to the individual. It is not and scientists who push this idea are mistaken.

    A person can't rise above it, until they are taken out of it or receive help, particularly at crucial junctures of brain development. If not, it WILL be reflected on test scores. The problem isn't all the "help" blacks are recieving, it's that the help is no longer there and you can thank Mr. Bell Curve for contributing to that.

    You can do your own research on this. That'll be your homework assignment.

    Another thing I want to mention is verbal talent, mathematical talent are considered intelligences, but musical intelligence, athletic prowess, artistic intelligence are considered "talents." So many areas of intelligence that give life luster, meaning and make us fully dimensional are not measured by IQ. Some dry sticks of professorial academic detritus decided to reduce other humans down to raw pulp and extrude them through the narrow tube of IQ testing. Not really fair to the individual, but even less fair to entire groups.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    The IQ topic is an interesting one. I was just listening to a video the other day where it was described as being 80% inherited and 20% related to other causes, like nutrition and so forth. I was at work while I was listening, and distracted, so I can't recall who I was listening to. Drats.

    I think something like nutrition plays a bigger role than the speaker said though. In high school I often woke up mere minutes before I had to catch a ride to school; I never ate breakfast and I knew nothing about the wonders of coffee back then. My Mom made me lunches, God bless her, but she would often put too much mayo on a turkey sandwich and place it on the bottom of a bag and put an enormous apple on top of it, or banana (or both) turning the thing into a smashed, mushy mess. And then maybe there'd be a bag of chips or something. So the sandwich was inedible; and so was the apple, because the last thing you wanna eat on an empty stomach is an acidic fruit. So it was just me and my chips. I did that for 4 years, and I was in a stupor for most of that time.

    When I got to college I'd learned a few things about diet. Not nearly as much as I know now, but enough to make a big difference in my mental clarity and stamina. I was almost a different person altogether. My cognitive abilities increased significantly. So I think Jess is really on to something there. 100%.

    On the other hand, there clearly are things that some races do better than others. It applies to the sexes as well. Racism is usually defined as one race claiming superiority over another, but it leaves little room for nuance. American sports, for example (specifically basketball and football) are dominated by black athletes. Always have been. And I've never once thought it was because of a hypothetical, shadowy group of black obstructionists preventing whites from being equally represented. Blacks are just better athletes, in general. But even that is something you can't really say anymore, because the cynics think it implies that's all they can do.

    Men and women are mostly the same, but there are some very real differences. Women are more interested in people, and men are more interested in things, in general. So it's not too surprising to see more men engineers and more women nurses and teachers. It's not the result of some hypothetical patriarchal dominance by men.

    If blacks are generally better than whites in some areas, would it really be too surprising if it was discovered that whites are better than blacks in some other areas? Maybe whites have some genetic glitch that makes them better accountants and telemarketers. Who the hell knows?

    I think it's a very important discussion to have. It'll never happen in the mainstream because everyone fears it'll all degenerate into a eugenics lecture or something. We're just not mature enough to have it. But maybe we can do it here. Might make for a good thread
    Last edited by Mike; 8th July 2020 at 22:44.
    [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg[/URL]

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    When you define yourself as something, whether it's race, sex, belief.... You are creating division. We are all here on this earth eating the same **** sandwich. This is not to say racism or any other ism does not exist, one just needs to drown out the rhetoric, put in 100% and get on with it.

    If you label yourself, you've already lost.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Orobo,

    You have a very strange take on things. I wonder how it would advance all of our freedom to look at collective IQ scores that arrive at wrong conclusions, including that the average "African" is borderline retarded and nothing can be done about it, not diet, not better schooling, etc..etc...

    That is a fair question. How does it advance their freedom? And what difference does it make to you? You seem to be arguing for a white European ethno-state here.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Ok so human beings can be differentiated in terms of race, gender, IQ, upper body muscle strength, length of there big toe etc etc.

    I hope everybody here will come to the conclusion that although every human being is different, unique and an individual who most likely just wants to have some peace, some fun, experiences of beauty, wonder and feel loved.

    How do we build a society in which every one can feel equally worthy.
    An argument I am hearing lately is that the freedoms of western society today are that this society will reward anyone who is capable of contributing to society based on their skills.
    I feel this is where so called inequality comes from. Not race or one of the others but the idea that I deserve more, because of my contribution to society or some foolish notion like that.

    The idea of pulling oneself up by his bootstraps and build something of value for themselves( over the backs of someone else which is usually forgotten) is ludicrous to me.
    The self made man/woman. ridiculous..

    We all need each other (even when we think we don't)

    Inequality, racism and whatever dichotomy one can think of exists, even in some institutions so The word systemic can be bastardized in such contexts.
    But again...

    Where to go from here and start "rewarding" people for being people instead of what they bring to the table..
    At least to some level the can stop struggling and fighting to make ends meet.

    And this alas will mean that we have to think long and hard as a society what luxurious goods we really need, which of them cause suffering. and be ready to give them up at some point..

    WIth Love
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    Please leave some of your light everywhere you go.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Orobo (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Orobo,

    Wherever you have a caste system, you will have differences in average IQ in those entrenched in the bottom class. Poor education, lousy food, the effect of generational violence on the developing brain, exposure to lead. I could go on and on. This racial IQ canard isn't scientific at all.

    Trillions blown on welfare. Seriously? What country are you talking about? The U.S blows trillions on warfare, not welfare.

    You can argue that IQ is part of a general measure of an individual's intelligence, but your theory breaks down when it comes to extrapolating meaningful conclusions based on racial averages.

    There's plenty of studies out there that refute the conclusions you have come to based on the Bell Curve--that IQ is immutable and intrinsic to the individual. It is not and scientists who push this idea are mistaken.

    A person can't rise above it, until they are taken out of it or receive help, particularly at crucial junctures of brain development. If not, it WILL be reflected on test scores. The problem isn't all the "help" blacks are recieving, it's that the help is no longer there and you can thank Mr. Bell Curve for contributing to that.

    You can do your own research on this. That'll be your homework assignment.

    Another thing I want to mention is verbal talent, mathematical talent are considered intelligences, but musical intelligence, athletic prowess, artistic intelligence are considered "talents." So many areas of intelligence that give life luster, meaning and make us fully dimensional are not measured by IQ. Some dry sticks of professorial academic detritus decided to reduce other humans down to raw pulp and extrude them through the narrow tube of IQ testing. Not really fair to the individual, but even less fair to entire groups.
    Autumn,

    I have done my homework, and got an A.

    Frankly I do not want to engage in a discussion with you about this. It will not go well. Let me just write this to you. After that I will just ignore you if nothing constructive comes from your side.

    Look. I assume we are on the same side. We all are looking at the tsunami of **** heading our way, and ways to deal with it.
    I have looked at this IQ thing in depth, for a long time, and have come to the prudent conclusion that there is something there that will defuse a great part of this bigoted doctrine poisoning our society.

    Pointing fingers and attributing things to me that basically aren't mine, or at sources I haven't used.... Stop the immaturities, please. It is using valuable energy to rebut and get on with the needed conversation. It is important, and we will have to look at it. As soon as.
    I get where you are coming from, I was there too. I moved on, when I found out I was lied to.

    If I am allowed to come with a suggestion it is that one can also engage by asking questions. That furthers the conversation better than a scattershot of closed-minded refusals, wild assumptions and dis-info without direction or links.
    That is the tactic of a paid agent to make people disengage, or worse.
    Also, it is ok to hang back and relax, without engaging. Works very well for me, I hardly do anyway. I choose my battles wisely. please do so too.
    If hysteria was a valid leading factor we wouldn't have gone to using fire in our lives either, long ago.

    Love to you. O.



    The point is, we get hung from the highest tree for touching this subject and all alarm bells go off due to the internalised propaganda. I get that. I have that too, you know.
    I have been using that as a tool for direction instead. So, on with it.


    Mike,
    You are so prudent, but... Happy to see you there.

    Let's take a purely rational look, because we have to, not to get caught up in trivial drama.

    I look at it like in nature. There are many races of dogs for example and their qualities differ greatly. One is good in the handbag of a Russian hooker, the other for searching Scandinavian bears on a hunt. Humans are very likely the same. There is no "better", just different.

    The little lapdog wouldn't have a happy and productive life alongside the Karelian bear-dogs in the mud and sleet. Maybe the Karelians would not be happy the lapdog is eating from their bowls....bla bla bla, you get the point.

    This could be the allegory for muslims/Africans in Europe/US. The society is made by and for Europeans with their qualities. The migrants couldn't, on average, hang in there with the rest. That is also what the stats show. And surely they resent that, maybe rightly so.

    It demands rational and abstract thinking to keep oneself on the right track. Happy, positive and productive in such an alien environment. There are many that have trouble with that in their own culture.
    From the first generation to the next, and the next, till now the fourth and fifth generations of migrants things turn more and more ugly. A more than linear uptake in crime, disengagement in society, and stuck in the brain- and self-worth rotting welfare-trap. It makes for some very unhappy people. But it seems this is the whole point.

    For now comes the Wormtongue: "It is not your fault, it is the racist whites". Most migrants come from cultures where linear, rational and abstract thinking is not a virtue. Freethinkers are shunned or killed. So it is bred out of people by a punishing conformity, over many many generations.
    Dump those here, under false pretences, like we have heard in the migrants own words, and they are being played. They are tools or weapons, frankly. Thát is racist, of the most most evil kind.

    Some here on Avalon are aware of videos where the perpetrators of said "human dumping" are openly talking about how and why they do that. Rife, is the word. There are even compilations of those "from the horses mouth"-quotes. It goes on for hours on end. Amazin'.

    The human, as a tribal species, is built, through evolution, to recognise the smallest differences in facial traits. To safeguard themselves and the tribe. Are them strangers?
    The human dumping naturally fires up the uneasiness of the original folk in those countries. This counts also for the US, even though the black population started out as slaves.
    Look at the White flight, when black people come to their neighbourhoods.
    So, of course, the whites try to keep to their own. Resisting hiring a black person, as an example, is only a natural reaction, but only a detail when seen in the bigger picture of big, real racist policies. Economical or political.
    Think about the HUD programs where the (white) ethnicities of neighbourhoods are forcibly broken up by moving black or brown people there. This happens here in Europe also.

    There are overtly racist policies, like diversity quotas against the white population. Or hidden, like the welfare programs.
    Nixon said something like:"Now we have bound up the black vote for 150 years", when the welfare state came into being. There is a lot more to find about that. It has been an evil plan from the beginning, the welfare state. In principle. The black community was doing actually great up to that point, rising into the middle class quickly. Stopping the rise by taking money from society to lock them up "on the new plantation" like Candace Owens says. Laying the ground work for resentment. On all sides.

    It is like in Europe. Take from the Europeans and give it to the migrants, who will keep up making many babies, like in Africa or the Middle East. Diversity hiring, lower punishments for similar crimes etc etc That is very racist, but presented as something good and responsible. Under threat of being called a racist. Upside down world.

    Now the migrants in Europe, or the black people in the US are legion (pun ), by systemic racist policies from the 60 and onward, Critical Theory can stoke the fires of said resentment.
    Humans are easily led towards that easier route of resentment, through entitlement for example.

    What I describe here is a "systemic racism" of a different kind, on another level preceding the currently used one, that is there to make the brown and black folks hate the whites, in who's societies they live.
    Being able to see all this, and working through ones own resistance consciously, concerning these workings demands a mental capacity for abstract thinking, and a curiosity that is possible within the individualistic, creative and free culture of the Europeans. What is needed for that is raw mental capacity, called "G". Commonly described by IQ.

    These are capacities that, according to scientific testing, are not readily available on average, in some other cultures and (sub-)races of humans. Especially the cultures that are being used as weapons against the ethnic European cultures. Not my idea, just relaying the words of people doing this...both the scientists or the evil-doers in casu.

    George Soros: I am going to bring down the United States by funding Black Hate groups. We'll put them into a mental trap and make them hate White people. The Black community is the easiest to manipulate. (2014)is a quote.

    I think it is clearly a trap to bind up society in a troubled "systemic racism, see, Whites are bad" while the real "primary racists" wring their hands in delight.
    So what if many European people find their way out of their programming and dare/manage to see the big picture, which is not easy, there is still the weaponised folks that need to come to the realisation that being brothers is the only way to get out of this bind. Or plain civil war.
    I am afraid that the natural differences between the different peoples are big enough for the controllers to keep everyone running. Hustling with the inborn reactions of a variation of folks.

    It is so sad to see the black community being led to burn all their bridges to the real direction where their freedom is. And ours too!
    I think that direction is where the ethnic Europeans thrive. It is thóse, and ONLY those, people that collectively has found the universalist insights that led them to see slavery is not good.
    They worked endlessly, against all resistance to buy free or set free by other means the slaves.

    That one-eyed king has to be killed it seems, by the blind masses, for the the two-faced to take over the throne.
    Can someone, a moderator, please confirm whether posts like this are allowed, and if they are, please close my subscription.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Just Jane,

    I think the reason these issues become so polarising, is because there are many many white people who feel just as disenfranchised as POC. I grew up in a super super stratified town in Australia which was divided literally in half, or thirds really. One third where the rich lived, one third where the working classes lived and one third where the underclasses lived. Those underclasses experienced as much systemic abuse as any POC and no, their whiteness didn’t help them, in any meaningful way, in fact, it worked against them. Being Aboriginal would have meant they received support and services they could never get as a white person.


    Did the white underclass get the same treatment by the police? I would be interested to know. Every society is a little different! There are people regarded as disposable and those who aren't.
    Yes, absolutely. Australia is racist, don’t get me wrong, but the underclasses will be treated just as badly and won’t have the luxury of having BLM on their side.

    I’m becoming increasingly concerned by the conduct of police here actually. It seems like very week someone was being shot by police, usually killed, and that just doesn’t happen here. Most of the people were either drug affected or mentally ill. The problem though, is when I try to find statistics or information about these cases, there isn’t any. None. Just reference to the last incidence via the media.

    Super concerning.

    Our police used to wear khakis and akubras (a kind of cowboy hat), now they wear black like New York police with weapons front and center. Even our transit police look like they’re part of some special ops team.

    And Australia, like Canada, is safe!

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    United States Moderator Sarah Rainsong's Avatar
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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Orobo (here)
    <snip>
    Let's take a purely rational look, because we have to, not to get caught up in trivial drama. Yes, let's do that.

    I look at it like in nature. There are many races of dogs for example and their qualities differ greatly. One is good in the handbag of a Russian hooker, the other for searching Scandinavian bears on a hunt. Humans are very likely the same. There is no "better", just different.

    The little lapdog wouldn't have a happy and productive life alongside the Karelian bear-dogs in the mud and sleet. Maybe the Karelians would not be happy the lapdog is eating from their bowls....bla bla bla, you get the point.

    This could be the allegory for muslims/Africans in Europe/US. The society is made by and for Europeans with their qualities. The migrants couldn't, on average, hang in there with the rest. That is also what the stats show. And surely they resent that, maybe rightly so.

    So right here, you suggest that "migrants" or non-Europeans (aka. non-white) simply can't handle European (aka. white) society.

    It demands rational and abstract thinking to keep oneself on the right track. Happy, positive and productive in such an alien environment. There are many that have trouble with that in their own culture.
    From the first generation to the next, and the next, till now the fourth and fifth generations of migrants things turn more and more ugly. A more than linear uptake in crime, disengagement in society, and stuck in the brain- and self-worth rotting welfare-trap. It makes for some very unhappy people. But it seems this is the whole point.

    The reason that non-whites are unhappy are because they are in a white society? They are not in "their own culture" so things "turn more and more ugly"?

    For now comes the Wormtongue: "It is not your fault, it is the racist whites". Most migrants come from cultures where linear, rational and abstract thinking is not a virtue. Freethinkers are shunned or killed. So it is bred out of people by a punishing conformity, over many many generations.
    Dump those here, under false pretences, like we have heard in the migrants own words, and they are being played. They are tools or weapons, frankly. Thát is racist, of the most most evil kind.

    What are you saying here? It sounds to me like you are proposing what I have bolded, but maybe, considering the following sentences, you're arguing against it? In any case, what is bolded is just wrong and appalling.

    Some here on Avalon are aware of videos where the perpetrators of said "human dumping" are openly talking about how and why they do that. Rife, is the word. There are even compilations of those "from the horses mouth"-quotes. It goes on for hours on end. Amazin'.

    The human, as a tribal species, is built, through evolution, to recognise the smallest differences in facial traits. To safeguard themselves and the tribe. Are them strangers?
    The human dumping naturally fires up the uneasiness of the original folk in those countries. This counts also for the US, even though the black population started out as slaves.
    Look at the White flight, when black people come to their neighbourhoods.
    So, of course, the whites try to keep to their own. Resisting hiring a black person, as an example, is only a natural reaction, but only a detail when seen in the bigger picture of big, real racist policies. Economical or political.
    Think about the HUD programs where the (white) ethnicities of neighbourhoods are forcibly broken up by moving black or brown people there. This happens here in Europe also.

    People do tend to be mistrustful of what they are not familiar with, but that is only indirectly related to race. Are you suggesting that people should just follow the easiest, most familiar path and engage in segregation? What is enlightened about that?

    There are overtly racist policies, like diversity quotas against the white population. Or hidden, like the welfare programs.
    Nixon said something like:"Now we have bound up the black vote for 150 years", when the welfare state came into being. There is a lot more to find about that. It has been an evil plan from the beginning, the welfare state. In principle. The black community was doing actually great up to that point, rising into the middle class quickly. Stopping the rise by taking money from society to lock them up "on the new plantation" like Candace Owens says. Laying the ground work for resentment. On all sides.

    Okay, so racist policies (aka systemic racism) lays the groundwork for resent. Yeah, I can agree with that.

    It is like in Europe. Take from the Europeans and give it to the migrants, who will keep up making many babies, like in Africa or the Middle East. Diversity hiring, lower punishments for similar crimes etc etc That is very racist, but presented as something good and responsible. Under threat of being called a racist. Upside down world.

    Now the migrants in Europe, or the black people in the US are legion (pun ), by systemic racist policies from the 60 and onward, Critical Theory can stoke the fires of said resentment.
    Humans are easily led towards that easier route of resentment, through entitlement for example.

    WTH does "making many babies" have to do with anything? Where does that come from? The concern that the non-whites will out-breed whites is something I've only directly encountered in patriarchal, white Christian supremacy. Why are you even mentioning that here? What does that have to do with the point of your post?

    I cannot attest to Europe, but here in America, there is most assuredly NOT lower punishments for non-whites who commit crimes.


    What I describe here is a "systemic racism" of a different kind, on another level preceding the currently used one, that is there to make the brown and black folks hate the whites, in who's societies they live.

    So the non-whites hate whites because they live in white society... and they shouldn't? Because they're BRED not to?

    Being able to see all this, and working through ones own resistance consciously, concerning these workings demands a mental capacity for abstract thinking, and a curiosity that is possible within the individualistic, creative and free culture of the Europeans. What is needed for that is raw mental capacity, called "G". Commonly described by IQ.

    So only smart people are going to be able to understand that non-whites do not belong in a white society?

    These are capacities that, according to scientific testing, are not readily available on average, in some other cultures and (sub-)races of humans. Especially the cultures that are being used as weapons against the ethnic European cultures. Not my idea, just relaying the words of people doing this...both the scientists or the evil-doers in casu.

    Scientific testing...the same scientific community that promotes vaccines? That insist that there's not such thing as aliens or ET or anything outside of reductionist thinking?

    Non-whites do not have the "capacity" for "abstract thinking" "curiosity" "individualist thinking"? They just don't have the "raw mental capacity"?


    George Soros: I am going to bring down the United States by funding Black Hate groups. We'll put them into a mental trap and make them hate White people. The Black community is the easiest to manipulate. (2014)is a quote.

    I think it is clearly a trap to bind up society in a troubled "systemic racism, see, Whites are bad" while the real "primary racists" wring their hands in delight.
    So what if many European people find their way out of their programming and dare/manage to see the big picture, which is not easy, there is still the weaponised folks that need to come to the realisation that being brothers is the only way to get out of this bind. Or plain civil war.
    I am afraid that the natural differences between the different peoples are big enough for the controllers to keep everyone running. Hustling with the inborn reactions of a variation of folks.

    It is so sad to see the black community being led to burn all their bridges to the real direction where their freedom is. And ours too!
    I think that direction is where the ethnic Europeans thrive. It is thóse, and ONLY those, people that collectively has found the universalist insights that led them to see slavery is not good.
    They worked endlessly, against all resistance to buy free or set free by other means the slaves.

    That one-eyed king has to be killed it seems, by the blind masses, for the the two-faced to take over the throne.

    You are attempting to set yourself up to be the advocate of non-white people, but what you really have done is reveal a deep-seated, highly biased white supremacy view.
    This is NOT OKAY, folks! I am deleting the original post and leaving this here for now, because everyone needs to understand that trying to argue that non-white people do not belong in white society is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    I am further locking this thread until Bill or one of the other more seasoned moderators can check this out.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Good call, Sarah. I am guilty of having ignored this thread as well. The subject is more highly fraught and polarized than I ever imagined could be the case on this Forum.
    "Love is the only engine of survival.." Leonard Cohen

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