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Thread: Systemic Racism in America

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    The media, the universities, the professors, and now corporate America are all falling in line with Mark's ideas of white supremacy, white privilege, white frailty, systemic racism, and so on. It's like a social justice wet dream. He won. MIKE

    Why are you conflating this with systemic racism? Corporate America is putting lipstick on the pig of racism and telling you everything is okay, when its not. They are worried about losing customers but any changes they make will be ones that will likely amount to very little and be highly symbolic, ritualistic and manipulative.

    Are the universities involved in working with the justice system to change policing?

    And the media? Really? From a foreigner's perspective you would have thought the entire city of Minneapolis was on fire. They are part of the problem and incite white fear of being lynched, for God's sakes. Just because they hire a few sell-outs, like Candace Owens doesn't mean they are fighting systemic racism. They are actually feeding it. White folks (non-protesters) will support more harsh law and order militarized policing, as a consequence.


    Militarized Policing---Systemic Racism



    Grossman also enticed his audience by noting that killing can lead to great sex.

    “Both partners are very invested in some very intense sex. There’s not a whole lot of perks that come with this job. You find one, relax and enjoy it,” he said in the same course.

    The retired Army ranger and former West Point instructor, teaches a course called “The Bulletproof Mind,” where he teaches officers the logic behind killing. He offers online classes through Grossman Academy for $US79.

    His overly aggressive style prepares law enforcement officers for a job under siege, where they’re front line troops who are “at war” with the streets. Officers need to be prepared to battle the communities they’re told to protect, Grossman has said. And ideally in Grossman’s eyes, officers need to learn to kill less hesitantly.

    Grossman, who did not respond to multiple requests for comment from Insider, is part of a larger industry of controversial militarised and fear-based police training educators, that also includes psychologist William Lewinski at the Force Science Institute in Minnesota, whose work has been called “pseudoscience” by the American Journal of Psychology.


    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/b...to-kill-2020-6
    Last edited by AutumnW; 1st July 2020 at 03:31.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote If you think there is a White Genocide, you are a White Supremacist or at least think like one.
    If you think there is a White Culture, you are a white supremacist or at least think like one( think of it this way: is there a Yellow culture? Didnt think so)
    If you think White is anything but a colloquial term to refer to a humans skin tone quickly, you are a white supremacist or at least think like one.
    So on this train of thought, talking about white privilege you're a white supremacist. Yeah anyone who uses that broad brush stroke of 'white priviledge' in my opinion is a rascist.

    Oh and using the term Uncle Tom in relation to Candace Owens is racist as well, who do you think you are to tell her how she thinks autumn.
    Last edited by Dorjezigzag; 30th June 2020 at 23:39.
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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Careful...

    Praxis did not call out anyone by name, so I assume that he is using the generic form of "you," which grammatically would be better expressed as "one." But we really don't need to employ the grammar police, do we? That's a form of police brutality that we can easily avoid.

    But since Praxis did refer to Mike in a previous post, it's understandable that Mike would assume the post was directed at him. Now that he has clarified his verbage and defended himself, let's assume that matter has been addressed and is closed.

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    There is something called the fourteen words: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words

    They are "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children" with an alt version going like "Because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish from the earth."

    This is also a White Genocide manifesto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theory"

    So next time you say there is White Genocide happening, congratulations you are using White Nationalist language. If it look like a duck and quacks like one . . . .



    But that is not even the good part. The Department of Homeland Security under Donald Trump and Stephen Miller issued this

    https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/02/15/...ica-safe-again


    The title of the memo is "We Must Secure The Border And Build The Wall To Make America Safe Again"

    Sound familiar.

    What about the Cops with the three percent flags on them? How many cops do you see that are allowed to have Black Panthers patches on their uniform?

    If you think there is a White Genocide, you are a White Supremacist or at least think like one.
    If you think there is a White Culture, you are a white supremacist or at least think like one( think of it this way: is there a Yellow culture? Didnt think so)
    If you think White is anything but a colloquial term to refer to a humans skin tone quickly, you are a white supremacist or at least think like one.

    How long do you have to think like one before you become one?

    You can be all these things without having a swastika on your body, without you even thinking you are. THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT SYSTEMIC.

    I too used to have a VERY negative response to the suggestion that White Culture should not exist. I felt that they were attacking my Norwegian Heritage of which I am proud. But they were not. The fact that I felt that they were talking about me just shows how deep White Supremacy is in America. Why do you think Mark was here trying to engage this community? He saw potential for change in the same way that I changed once I realized that since I am not a White Nationalist they actually werent talking about me and my culture and heritage.
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    The "next" time I say there is white genocide occurring will be the first time. I've never said that. Not once. Ever.

    You want me so badly to be the white demon of your imagination that you're now just inventing things

    Someday you'll be very embarrassed by all this. Till then, back to topic.
    Last edited by Sarah Rainsong; 30th June 2020 at 23:21.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Back on topic: It might be useful if we all had a working definition of systemic racism. Might be cool if everyone posting explained what it means to them before we move any further. If we could arrive at something that most of us agreed with, or at least some framework by which we could all operate in, it might add a little structure to help move the conversation forward constructively. Just my 2 cents.

    Because, in my opinion, there are some elements of what I believe "systemic racism" is that are valid and deserve to be spoken about and dissected. I also think there's quite a bit of fat that needs to be trimmed off. But I think to do a slow and methodical dissection and inspection of all it's elements, we first need to identify clearly what those elements are.
    This is exactly what I had in mind. And I do appreciate everyone contributing their thoughts in a reasoned, explanatory way, if a little heated or emotional at times.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    …Don't forget, Mark also had his own thread basically (Bill's thread, technically..but Mark was the main contributor) that he spammed with social justice themes mostly uninterrupted for months on end. So he can't say he was treated unfairly…
    Mike, I have great respect for you despite the fact that we are of different mindsets regarding this issue. But I think your statement about Mark here is a little unfair and I’m sorry, Sarah, but I want to address this briefly. To call his active posting on and engagement with the racism thread, spam, is a bit much. As one of the only (if not the only) active black members on the forum, can you blame him for trying to make the vastly white majority on this forum understand what it is like to be a black person in America today?

    Very telling that he encountered such staunch resistance from so many (white) forum members who can’t possibly know what it is to walk in a black man or woman’s shoes. I understand his frustration. Sometimes it might be better for one’s own emotional well being to just walk away, especially when so many folks are just not understanding where one is coming from.
    "Love is the only engine of survival.." Leonard Cohen

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote so many (white) forum members who can’t possibly know what it is to walk in a black man or woman’s shoes
    Another assumption based on race which is racism, Many on the forum have experienced being a minority whether it being race nationality, disability, or economic status. Most Black people would not claim to have exclusivity to suffering. I saw no staunch resistance to Mark, just some people with a different opinion. Your fawning of Mark is quite sickly and patronising.
    Last edited by Dorjezigzag; 1st July 2020 at 00:04.
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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)
    Quote so many (white) forum members who can’t possibly know what it is to walk in a black man or woman’s shoes
    Another assumption based on race which is racism, Many on the forum have experienced being a minority whether it being race nationality, disability, or economic status. Most Black people would not claim to have exclusivity to suffering. I saw no staunch resistance to Mark, just people with a different opinion. Your fawning of Mark is quite sickly and patronising.
    You're entitled to your opinions, but being disappointed or disheartened that a long time member of the forum felt the need to leave is NOT fawning. Tread carefully.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    <snip>Just because they hire a few Uncle Toms, like Candace Owens doesn't mean they are fighting systemic racism. <snip>
    The term "Uncle Tom" is generally considered a racist and offensive term. Let's do better.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Sarah Rainsong (here)
    Quote Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)
    Quote so many (white) forum members who can’t possibly know what it is to walk in a black man or woman’s shoes
    Another assumption based on race which is racism, Many on the forum have experienced being a minority whether it being race nationality, disability, or economic status. Most Black people would not claim to have exclusivity to suffering. I saw no staunch resistance to Mark, just people with a different opinion. Your fawning of Mark is quite sickly and patronising.
    You're entitled to your opinions, but being disappointed or disheartened that a long time member of the forum felt the need to leave is NOT fawning. Tread carefully.
    No he's used the situation which was Marks choice as a guilt trip which is in bad taste.

    To be quite honest I saw through this thread from the start, I see your intentions. I'll tread with a strong and honest heart as I always do.
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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)
    Quote Posted by Sarah Rainsong (here)
    Quote Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)
    Quote so many (white) forum members who can’t possibly know what it is to walk in a black man or woman’s shoes
    Another assumption based on race which is racism, Many on the forum have experienced being a minority whether it being race nationality, disability, or economic status. Most Black people would not claim to have exclusivity to suffering. I saw no staunch resistance to Mark, just people with a different opinion. Your fawning of Mark is quite sickly and patronising.
    You're entitled to your opinions, but being disappointed or disheartened that a long time member of the forum felt the need to leave is NOT fawning. Tread carefully.
    No he's used the situation which was Marks choice as a guilt trip which is in bad taste.

    To be quite honest I saw through this thread from the start, I see your intentions. I'll tread with a strong and honest heart as I always do.
    What is in bad taste and completely unhelpful are comments like the above. If you have nothing to contribute other than antagonizing or derailing the conversation, then please refrain from commenting.


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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Sarah Rainsong (here)
    Careful...

    Praxis did not call out anyone by name, so I assume that he is using the generic form of "you," which grammatically would be better expressed as "one." But we really don't need to employ the grammar police, do we? That's a form of police brutality that we can easily avoid.

    But since Praxis did refer to Mike in a previous post, it's understandable that Mike would assume the post was directed at him. Now that he has clarified his verbage and defended himself, let's assume that matter has been addressed and is closed.

    Quote Posted by Praxis (here)
    There is something called the fourteen words: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words

    They are "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children" with an alt version going like "Because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish from the earth."

    This is also a White Genocide manifesto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theory"

    So next time you say there is White Genocide happening, congratulations you are using White Nationalist language. If it look like a duck and quacks like one . . . .



    But that is not even the good part. The Department of Homeland Security under Donald Trump and Stephen Miller issued this

    https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/02/15/...ica-safe-again


    The title of the memo is "We Must Secure The Border And Build The Wall To Make America Safe Again"

    Sound familiar.

    What about the Cops with the three percent flags on them? How many cops do you see that are allowed to have Black Panthers patches on their uniform?

    If you think there is a White Genocide, you are a White Supremacist or at least think like one.
    If you think there is a White Culture, you are a white supremacist or at least think like one( think of it this way: is there a Yellow culture? Didnt think so)
    If you think White is anything but a colloquial term to refer to a humans skin tone quickly, you are a white supremacist or at least think like one.

    How long do you have to think like one before you become one?

    You can be all these things without having a swastika on your body, without you even thinking you are. THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT SYSTEMIC.

    I too used to have a VERY negative response to the suggestion that White Culture should not exist. I felt that they were attacking my Norwegian Heritage of which I am proud. But they were not. The fact that I felt that they were talking about me just shows how deep White Supremacy is in America. Why do you think Mark was here trying to engage this community? He saw potential for change in the same way that I changed once I realized that since I am not a White Nationalist they actually werent talking about me and my culture and heritage.
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    The "next" time I say there is white genocide occurring will be the first time. I've never said that. Not once. Ever.

    You want me so badly to be the white demon of your imagination that you're now just inventing things

    Someday you'll be very embarrassed by all this. Till then, back to topic.


    hey Sarah, I really appreciate your energy and your trying to create a healthy space for a good discussion

    I'd like to be part of that good energy!

    I think this thread has tons of potential.

    It's much easier to get angry or annoyed than it is to think! I'm certainly guilty of that. That crap needs to stop. So I'll do my best moving forward.

    I started writing about systemic racism, but then I stopped because my energy was still a little hectic. I'm gonna think on this as deeply as my feeble little brain is capable. I'm gonna try to shed some ego and approach this as openly and honestly as I can, and leave my need to "win" at the door. Lets see if I can do it LOL

    I was actually considering starting a thread where we'd all be obligated to argue the other side in good faith. So, for example, I'd be forced to argue for social justice and BLM and so forth. I think it would be a great way for all of us to get out of our ideological boxes.

    But I digress. I'm gonna go think for a bit. Hopefully I'll have something meaningful to offer when I return

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Dorjezigzag (here)
    Quote If you think there is a White Genocide, you are a White Supremacist or at least think like one.
    If you think there is a White Culture, you are a white supremacist or at least think like one( think of it this way: is there a Yellow culture? Didnt think so)
    If you think White is anything but a colloquial term to refer to a humans skin tone quickly, you are a white supremacist or at least think like one.
    So on this train of thought, talking about white privilege you're a white supremacist. Yeah anyone who uses that broad brush stroke of 'white priviledge' in my opinion is a rascist.

    Oh and using the term Uncle Tom in relation to Candace Owens is racist as well, who do you think you are to tell her how she thinks autumn.
    Having been quite confused about how this could be misconstrued as being racist (Uncle Toms) when it is a term used to deride sell outs within the black community, I looked up the term and found I had the modern definition right. I can only assume it is considered an insult because it may be too broadly applied....like if a black person works for a white person, in any capacity. I think it is completely appropriate to describe Candace Owens this way but in the interest of protecting racially sensitive members, like yourself, I will use the term, "sell-out" in the future.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Sarah Rainsong (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    <snip>Just because they hire a few Uncle Toms, like Candace Owens doesn't mean they are fighting systemic racism. <snip>
    The term "Uncle Tom" is generally considered a racist and offensive term. Let's do better.
    I actually did not know that, but thought about it and now I think I get it. My only American experience is living in Seattle in the '90's nad the subject of racism never even came up. Yeah...looking back, that's how bad it probably was!

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    My only American experience is living in Seattle in the '90's nad the subject of racism never even came up. Yeah...looking back, that's how bad it probably was!
    Even you have to admit that times have changed rather drastically since the 90's. Even though the topic never came up when you were in Seattle does not mean it wasn't there. Or people did not suffer from it.

    As far as this thread goes. There's a few of them now addressing the same issue. Ideally from different sides, but actually all just stuck in the same dichotomized fashion.

    As for taking the opposite side and trying to defend. That is exactly the kind of dumbing down the problem to an intellectual excersis. I've immersed myself for a few days to some of the systemic racism denyers. I've even tried some of their thought structures on for size.

    Personally I found that they don't fit me and everywhere I see them used I get a feeling something is very very wrong.

    And without an answer all that immersion did was solidify my own ideas and feelings. which so called rationalisation only muddled further.

    I've come to realize that talking about this stuff from the safety of a phones touch keyboard is as effective as trying to imagine being caught in Africa, chained to a bunk in a ship and sold off to work on another continent. Seeing your children sold from you. Somehow being able to flee or buy your freedom. Only to find yourself unable to function in a dominantly white imported society where nobody knows anymore how together we have created this entire mess.
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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Now we’ve got the term ‘systemic racism deniers’ being thrown around by people who haven’t even bothered to define what it is in any coherent way yet. The only example Catsqoutl has given so far is an anecdotal story of a brown girl in white school that has jokes said to her.

    That’s not an example of ‘systemic racism’, that’s an example of ‘human nature’. Any minority kid in a majority school would face the same problem.

    Holding white people to an unrealistic idealised standard, one that no other skin colour is capable of giving is a form of ‘systematic racism’ in itself. White guilt isn’t going to change human nature and attitudes towards black people that the Chinese hold for instance.

    Slavery from a couple hundred years ago is used as an example while ignoring the slave trade thats alive and kicking in Africa to this very day. All while ignoring the systemised rape and murder of white farmers in modern day Africa.

    It’s this myopic, one-sided compassion that I find nauseating. The head in the sand over all the other issues in the world to focus on something as trivial as a jokes being made. The horrors.

    Can someone who thinks ‘systemic racism’ is a genuine thing, and not just a divisive tactic rolled out by the ‘system’ overlords, please give it a succinct definition, with a couple poignant examples of how it’s affected you or your community personally. Once we’ve got that baseline then we’ll be able to determine whether it’s a legitimate cause or not.
    Last edited by Jayke; 1st July 2020 at 18:44.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Fwiw. My example was not meant as a definition of systemic racism. It was a response to one sided examples that are used to further a largest agenda. Something that is far from being a definition or even significant in this discussion.

    Bill quoted a definintion and Mike as well as myself have commented on how we understand the term.

    Please read before rambling.
    ---
    Please leave some of your light everywhere you go.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Hi,
    This was a post that didn't fit, at all. Got carried away..so Carry on.

    Love, O.
    Last edited by Orobo; 6th July 2020 at 22:54. Reason: Irrelevant post here. Carry on. My bad. Thought I had edited it waay back.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)
    Fwiw. My example was not meant as a definition of systemic racism. It was a response to one sided examples that are used to further a largest agenda. Something that is far from being a definition or even significant in this discussion.

    Bill quoted a definintion and Mike as well as myself have commented on how we understand the term.

    Please read before rambling.
    Yeah, I read Bills post, here it is as a refresher:

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)
    @mike, how would you define systemic?
    I'd be interested in Mike's answer. I'd also be interested in Sarah Rainsong's definition. (She started this thread a few hours ago.)

    I looked it up. There are many "definitions", but here are two, from this USA Today page:

    What is systemic racism?


    NAACP [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People] President Derrick Johnson defined systemic racism, also called structural racism or institutional racism, as "systems and structures that have procedures or processes that disadvantages African Americans."

    Glenn Harris, president of Race Forward and publisher of Colorlines, defined it as "the complex interaction of culture, policy and institutions that holds in place the outcomes we see in our lives."

    "Systemic racism is naming the process of white supremacy," Harris said.

    Harris said systemic racism creates disparities in many "success indicators" including wealth, the criminal justice system, employment, housing, health care, politics and education. He said that although the concept dates back to work done by scholar and civil rights pioneer W.E.B. Du Bois, the concept was first named during the civil rights movement of the 1960s and was further refined in the 1980s.

    Also see this thread:
    I debunked this specific definition (“Systemic racism is naming the process of white supremacy“) by sharing the insights of Thomas Sowell earlier in the thread, which showed it’s a ridiculous statement because the supreme culture in institutions of higher learning are actually the Chinese, but that’s due to their insanely strict work ethic. I’m guessing you didn’t read that post though eh

    I also read the several posts by Mike and Sarah asking for other people to explain their understanding and definitions of ‘systemic racism’.
    So now not only have you not provided a definition that you personally go by. You’ve also backtracked and said the example you used earlier isn’t even an example of systemic racism. Why were you rambling about ‘systemic racism deniers’ when you haven’t even provided an example of what it even is.

    I’m asking for what is significant in this discussion.

    Autumn seems to conflate ‘systemic racism’ with technocracy and tyranny with her points about militarised police. Systemic corruption sure, but not examples of systemic racism.
    Praxis was just chanting ‘white supremacy’ with all the incoherence of Jack Nicholson in one flew over the cuckoos nest.
    Gracy has said it’s something she’s really passionate about, yet shared no personal stories or her personal definition or understanding of the issue.
    And you just disingenuously virtue signal and flip flop over what should be a very simple couple of questions.

    What does systemic racism mean to you?
    Can you share a couple poignant examples of how it’s impacted you or your local community personally?

    If it’s such an important topic, why are the main purveyors of the concept so incapable of describing the issue with any degree of intelligence?

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  36. Link to Post #59
    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    I think this thread along with a few others is a fine example of how we are immersed in a psi-op and don't even know it, let alone realize how pervasive and comprehensive it is.

    Words and phrases have been appropriated by movements and their definitions are not fixed. We argue back and forth but we are not on the same page. We are not even arguing the same idea.

    I for one do not accept any repurposed definitions with loose parameters. Systemic racism does not have a specific meaning. It is two words put together. That does not make those words less specific, it should make it far more specific.

    But, you see, we have a word like racism that we do not even agree on its definition. And systemic seems to have problems of its own. You cannot have a meaningful conversation if everyone has their own special definitions they are operating under.

    The reason is quite clear. North America is a special case. The white man didn't just come and conquer and rape this place, they took it over and sent the indigenous people packing. North America is like a world wide orphanage. People who for whatever reason must flee their homeland consider it their refuge. Here race of every type is nose to nose, trying to live with their neighbors who were their sworn enemies back home, and others who have never been this close together ever. Race comes to the fore in a situation like that, and it has.

    But what is race, because it has many definitions and many affiliations and movements wanting to commandeer the narrative. They put their special twist on words and phrases and suddenly 'systemic racism' is solely about blacks? No

    Maybe they felt like their narrative was slipping, perhaps they felt newcomers were getting too much attention, who knows. The fact is that systemic racism is not a black problem, it is an everybody problem except for the upper .1%.

    It is the same rhetoric used in the occupy wall street movement. Put like that it is a valid movement. Singling out one oppressed race above the rest of us is not helpful right now.

    The world has moved on. Either we are all included or there is no movement.
    Last edited by Ernie Nemeth; 1st July 2020 at 13:39.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Well Jayke, you’re quite compelling at pointing a distorted finger of guilt at everyone with whom you disagree, but the big blue ribbon you give your own contribution, is nothing but a supposed debunking with an opinion piece by Thomas Sowell.

    How about giving us a little bit more than a copy/paste of what you’re demanding?

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