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Thread: Systemic Racism in America

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)

    Does that mean there are no high IQ children of color?
    All kinds of things could be happening, but it's important to recognize that "IQ" is really still a very crude concept, and it's actually pretty hard to quantify accurately. (I've encountered a lot of people with high measured IQs who are very dumb, unaware and limited. Many so-called "geniuses" are just good at solving puzzles, and little else.)

    Language and culture have a great deal to do with it, while there are definitely genetic predispositions to high levels of mental ability — of course. Intellectual potential is inherited, just as are other assets like strength, height, and so on. But other very variable factors include parenting (very major), early socialization (major), and early nutrition (quite major).

    The parenting thing includes early access to certain kinds of games, problem-solving toys, stimulating books, etc. Giving a toddler an iPad to watch cartoons and keep them quiet hardly cuts it when it comes to intellectual development.

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 3rd July 2020 at 13:20.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Agreed, I just find it odd that a school which is designated for the education of "smart" kids is predominantly white where there pool of choice is very very mixed.

    I am sure we can think of other reasons of why this is so.
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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)
    Agreed, I just find it odd that a school which is designated for the education of "smart" kids is predominantly white where there pool of choice is very very mixed.

    I am sure we can think of other reasons of why this is so.
    I also can't think why there is a majority of 80% of Black people in the professional Basketball league in the USA. Is there some kind of black privilege happening here. I mean there are tall white people.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_a...ity_in_the_NBA
    Oel ngati kame

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Bs. Elementary education is not top sports. I don't know, but I would bet that all little leage sports clubs from mixed areas would have a mixed junior leage
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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote I also can't think why there is a majority of 80% of Black people in the professional Basketball league in the USA. Is there some kind of black privilege happening here. I mean there are tall white people.
    white men can't jump...

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America



    The problem I had with this thread and those curated by Avolonians with similar opinions is that it almost felt like a trap. It sets up an opinion in regards to race of which there are many counter arguments, backed up with solid evidence, but if you used those arguments you are deemed a racist.

    This is why I went on a counter offensive, just to show how any expressed generalities about race could be deemed as racist, but sometimes in the interest of knowledge we need to inhabit these uncomfortable territories. Statistical evidence is very useful is this pursuit and needs to be analysed but with a appreciation that it is a generalisation, a broad brushstroke. Ultimately we are all individuals and those from all races will be outliers and exceptions, often bringing a unique perspective to their chosen field which is why I believe diversity in all fields should be encouraged.

    Race has become a taboo subject, while subjects like sex have become increasingly openly discussed, almost a reversal on the past few hundred years. In many ways this is understandable, race philosophy was behind many abuses of the colonial period and of course was one of the pillars of the Nazi world view.

    Although not all discussions on race generalities has become taboo. Almost like a pole shift it is now open season on ‘white’ culture with various generalities aggressively openly expressed within institutions such as the education system and now increasingly the media. This is increasingly leading to attacks on white people and symbols of ‘ white history and culture

    Marxist groups such as BLM have expressed a lot of racist generalities such as white privilege and white frailty which many academics have then countered and rightly so presenting other reasons for the general observed ‘privilege’. These counter arguments often backed with hard statistical fact have been increasingly deemed as forbidden.

    This is one of the main reasons that characters such as Stefan Molyneux are being banned of the media platforms that are the institutions and backbone of our culture. They present inconvenient truths that quite frankly wouldn’t have needed to be expressed if culture wasn’t under its current onslaught against cultures founded by those with white pigmentation.
    Last edited by Dorjezigzag; 3rd July 2020 at 14:07.
    Oel ngati kame

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Many( if not most) of winners of prestigious competitions in high tech in the US, science competitions, the spelling Bee, company CEOs etc. are Indians,
    that is children of first or second generation immigrants.

    When I visited San Jose that is tech hub, think Apple, NASA etc. and went around the town about 80% of population I’ve encountered were either Indian or Chinese by ethnicity. Perhaps 10% of Africans and 10%(or less) of Caucasians.
    Sorry if I mixed Indo-Iranians to the first largest category.

    About Indian population whom I’m mostly familiar with, I can say that much: if the same kids grew up half malnourished and without proper healthcare and education as they would just a generation or two back, they would never be able to succeed and prove their IQs.

    I suppose it’s the same way for many people in Africa quite yet. If your momma is ill, struggling to fetch water and find food for you everyday,
    you can’t win. Either you are obliged to help your family and work for them or run away but then you are risking a lot, no matter how smart you really are.

    🙏

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Ooof. Reading this thread, there is so much I want to say, and I am truly at a loss for words as to how to express it. Some of the posts here make me want to tear my hair out. Others, warm my heart. All of you, I know are good people, and I would break bread with even the ones who made me tear out a few hairs.

    I will say this much. Systemic racism is very real, it's not against whites, though whites are very much complicit in it. It is closely tied to white privilege, which is also very real, and not against white people, though whites are very much complicit in that as well. Breaking down exactly how, and why, would take a literal book. In fact, there are many on the subject. But I will try to distill it, as simply as possible, so that those who are still in denial about this reality, can understand why, without it being an attack or fallacious argument.

    A more thoughtful, fleshed out response will come soon. I just need to organize the thoughts running through my head.

    In the meantime, I'm leaving this here. I think it's a very interesting video, with a lot of food for thought. Notice how each one of them, agrees on one thing: the oppression that they have all had to endure, at varying degrees, at some point or another, for no other reason than being black.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Hey Tam, I've flipped thru a few of those books. I find them all to be very murky. And then they just continually double and triple and quadruple down on the murkiness, and it's suggested that if you find yourself questioning the logic of the murkiness, you're indulging your privilege.

    Even logic itself is called into question as being a manipulative tool of the white patriarchy, or at least it is by Robin DiAngelo. By disputing the value of logic, someone like that has free reign to make as little sense as possible while accusing the inevitably confused and annoyed readers that their confusion and irritability are merely symptoms of their privilege. The whole religion of social justice is filled with these double binds and Kafka traps. That's my issue with it all.

    You're an excellent writer. If the arguments for white privilege and systemic racism were sound and logical, you wouldn't have to write a book about any of it. A few sentences would do. It would all be very simple.
    [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg[/URL]

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Hey Tam, I've flipped thru a few of those books. I find them all to be very murky. And then they just continually double and triple and quadruple down on the murkiness, and it's suggested that if you find yourself questioning the logic of the murkiness, you're indulging your privilege.

    Even logic itself is called into question as being a manipulative tool of the white patriarchy, or at least it is by Robin DiAngelo. By disputing the value of logic, someone like that has free reign to make as little sense as possible while accusing the inevitably confused and annoyed readers that their confusion and irritability are merely symptoms of their privilege. The whole religion of social justice is filled with these double binds and Kafka traps. That's my issue with it all.

    You're an excellent writer. If the arguments for white privilege and systemic racism were sound and logical, you wouldn't have to write a book about any of it. A few sentences would do. It would all be very simple.
    This is what I find alarming about "social justice" culture.

    Seeking justice is great, striving to improve society is great where there is corruption. "Social justice" and "woke" culture is an ideology though. It is to justice what religion is to spirituality. Many tenets and accusations by "woke" culture are accepted without criticism, like the idea of systemic racism. If you criticize them you prove how wrong you are according to the doctrine of the ideology.

    It is religious and cultish, and perhaps filling humanity's need to be tribal minded.

    I don't worry about "woke" culture or Marxism though. The silent majority is already getting sick of it. I'm concerned about the snap back effect we're going to see against it. Every absurd presumption and accusation just stocks the barrels of the ultra theocratic and militantly conservative "right". Not the rednecks or neo nazis on the "alt right". The secret societies/institutions running the corrupt world, which are full of bigotry and eugenics. Which shouldn't require explaining on PA - although look up Icke, Maxwell, Tsarion and others. Study what Rudolf Steiner had to say about the luciferic spirit and its leaning toward fanatical belief (group hysteria, tribalism) yet also rigid theocracy (like caste systems). Those controlling the corrupt system might practice satanism yet see themselves as the shining ones whose right it is to rule the herd of humanity. The arrogance of "lucifer".

    It is my current conclusion that "woke" culture is a tool being used by those who want to return the world to a strict totalitarian theocratic state. If the world is made crazy and chaotic enough, many people will flock to that "order". For the dark father to put everyone in line.

    The dark mother is being used to instill chaos from within via emotional based thinking/hysteria/rejection of positive masculine qualities like logic and objective thought. The dark mother gets people to attack themselves. The dark father is about attacking others (the war on "terror").

    This will go on until the controllers present their stern corrections which people will accept because it will be seen as bringing order to the mindless chaos. The anarchy of antifa and BLM serves what they purport to be fighting against, something much more controlling and restrictive than what they think they're fighting.

    It's not about sides, it's about polarity, and the negative has many sides.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)

    In the meantime, I'm leaving this here. I think it's a very interesting video, with a lot of food for thought. Notice how each one of them, agrees on one thing: the oppression that they have all had to endure, at varying degrees, at some point or another, for no other reason than being black.
    I like the guy at 9 minutes who says “I’ve never seen racism in this country until I became a conservative”. The video is more a conversation around character dynamics, and the racism they’ve endured ‘from other black people’ as well as ‘white liberals on the left’ for simply holding different political views.

    The next guy admits his own opportunity for grabbing some of the systemic racism for himself, by voting for Obama simply because Obama had black skin.

    16 minutes in, the black guy who pulled himself out of poverty by working hard, joining the military, putting effort and energy into ‘the system’ to gain privileges from ‘the system’ and admitting there’s no reason anyone else on the block couldn’t do the same thing.

    18 minutes, the black ‘white collar criminal’ who came from the hood, turned her life around after prison and got her family off food stamps by building her own financial consulting company, she’s certainly enjoying some systemic privileges.

    I’ll watch the rest later, but the first 20 minutes just help to prove the point I made earlier. The ‘system’ doesn’t care about skin colour, it only cares about people who put their time and energy into perpetuating the system. Those who play the game get rewarded, while those that don’t have to fight for scraps.

    The system wasn’t just built by white people. The system has been built over thousands of years as a globalised structure that’s always had many different races and cultures feeding into and competing over how that system is shaped. Most people seem to be confusing ‘white privilege’ and ‘systemic racism’ with ‘cultural inertia‘.

    White Europeans have just had an extra 1500 years to build institutions within the ‘system’ than Afro-Americans have. There’s bound to be prejudices that favour whites. Just as there would be prejudices against any white person who moved to a predominantly Muslim, African, Chinese or Japanese culture.

    I’ll admit cultural inertia is very real. But to blame specifically ‘white people’ when any race would behave in exactly the same way is very myopic imo.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    While you're note wrong at all, Jayke, that the "system" is an enemy to us all, rather than simply black people, that notion is actually a very common misunderstanding/myopic view of systemic racism.


    Now, this is partially due to the name. It's somewhat of a misnomer. I think people don't generally "get" what the "systemic" part of "systemic" racism is, because everyone has a slightly different definition/perception of what the "system" is in their head, based off of their background/upbringing/environment. Which is only natural, and human. The life experience of a corn-fed country boy from a rural Ohio 98% white town is going to be vastly different from that of a 16 year-old black girl living in Compton. Neither one is more "real" than the other, yet the life of the other side to either one is far-removed and almost abstract. It's a concept rather than a reality. For better, or for worse, for everyone.


    The country boy experiences systemic oppression, absolutely. Anyone who's been paying attention or cares to look can see how rural America has been decimated, forgotten, and is crumbling from the inside out.


    The same way those in the projects have been swept under the rug of modern-day segregation, raised and coming of age into a crime-ridden, destitute hellhole.


    So each of them experiences systemic oppression, but in totally different (yet fundamentally similar/congruent) ways.


    So a white person, who may live in a bubble, will not realize that there is an extra layer of oppression that non-whites must deal with America, blacks especially, because they've never had that broach the realm of lived experience.


    Now, that's not a personal attack, or anti-white. We all have and live in many bubbles. Every last one of us. Having a bubble is not you're fault. Refusing to see past it when it's starting you in the face, and refusing to burst it out of a selfishness, fear, or confusion, is.


    So, systemic racism. Systemic racism is very real. Systemic racism is an obstacle that every last black person in America is going to have to deal with, throughout their lives. Some a lot more so than others, depending on class/socioeconomic status.


    However, it is not a be-all, end-all. While America still has eons to go in its racial relations, there has still been considerable progress in civil rights/social justice (yes, I know that's a trigger word), and securing a future is no longer some impossible, fictional pipe dream for black people in America.


    However, the hard reality is, that it is much, much harder, for the AVERAGE black person in America to "make it", than it is for the average white person. Average not meaning your everyday, 5'10", 180 lb Joe. Not that kind of average.


    The kind of average, is the black person, as a figure. A number. A cog in the wheel. Compared to his white, or East Asian, or even Hispanic brothers.


    That isn't to say that whites, East Asians, or Hispanics aren't suffering as well. That they can't be poor, or desperately underprivileged. That they aren't also cogs in the machine, expendable.
    Because they are.


    Just that, per capita, the rate of poverty in these groups is significantly lower than in black Americans. Also, their incarceration rate. And graduation rate. And literacy rate. And voting rate.


    Now, the big question, is why. And when you ask yourself, and you start to really dig, you begin to understand, the vast complexity, nuance, and multifaceted vectors that make this a reality.


    And that, is systemic racism.


    Should we feel white guilt? Absolutely not. Should the average American be held accountable? No. But we are complicit. Every last one of us.


    Ultimately, yes, it's not about race. Or gender. Or religion. Or sexual orientation, or political leanings, etc. Yes, each one of those are straw mans, meant to distract us from the common enemy, the global elite/Cabal/1%/"Illuminati"/MIC/Big-Business/Western Aristocratic bloodlines/whatever.


    But, that truth does not negate or erase the experience of nearly half of the 50 million black people living in America today.


    And that's all we're trying to say, here. To shed a light on one tiny slice of the giant pie that is human suffering.


    In the immortal words of En Vogue, free your mind, and the rest will follow.


    So for those that are saying All Lives Matter, or that systemic racism doesn't exist in America because they got beat up by a cop on their way to work, where their boss is black and drives a Tesla, stop making it about you. Stop pointing out the 10,000 other examples of genocide/racism/systemic oppression that are universal. Yes, we know. Yes, we see you. Yes, we feel you.


    But if you go to Grandma's funeral, and some other guest there, mid-eulogy, gets up and starts taking about their Great-Uncle that died last year, then they're kind of being an asshole. Yes, it's terrible that Uncle Joe passed, yes, your pain is very real and just as legitimate as the pain in the room is right now, but this is Grandma's funeral.


    Oh, and finally, yes, of course systemic racism exists in other countries too, as do systemic sexism, systemic religious persecution, etc.)


    This brief, humorous video captures it perfectly, in my opinion:


    Last edited by Tam; 4th July 2020 at 11:29. Reason: accidentally a word

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    I just watched the evergreen Weinstein trilogy.
    And am getting a better understanding of what the people cautioning against Antifa and #BLM are afraid of.

    So I find myself on the fence again. I want to acknowledge that people of color are experiencing an unfair amount of obstacles compared to their white peers. That said as a white man being forced to acknowledge complacency just because of the color of my skin feels ludicrous.
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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    I don't think that people find it easy to imagine the threat to our civilization which is intentional and orchestrated on many fronts. We can argue all day long that there is or is not systemic "ism" and it will be useless to address the issue. The issue is that human lives just do NOT matter to the system. Here is just one example.



    How do we fight back? I say we stop arguing between "groups" of humans. We identify some basic elements of how to live. We start doing that ourselves.

    What ARE those basic elements? I think we could focus there... how do we decide and how do we act?

    IMO when we each pass on, we will face ourselves and whom will we see? A real human?
    Last edited by Delight; 4th July 2020 at 16:19.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)
    I just watched the evergreen Weinstein trilogy.
    And am getting a better understanding of what the people cautioning against Antifa and #BLM are afraid of.

    So I find myself on the fence again. I want to acknowledge that people of color are experiencing an unfair amount of obstacles compared to their white peers. That said as a white man being forced to acknowledge complacency just because of the color of my skin feels ludicrous.


    I could kiss you!

    I know we've been sort of butting heads over these issues, but I respect the hell out of you for exploring the other side of this stuff in earnest. I'd pay people to watch those Evergreen videos. I really would. I don't think it's possible to truly understand the scope of current events without seeing those. It's the perfect case study for what's happening now.

    For what it's worth, I don't think you have to compromise your heart here. Racism is a very real and dangerous thing, and it's only natural that anyone with a beating heart and sound mind feel compassion and kindness towards those suffering from it.

    But the problem, as you see in the vids and in the news these days, is that it's all very bloated and exaggerated; oppression has become a religion, complete with "original sin" and faith based acceptances. And the social justice ideologies being fast-tracked in as a result of that religion are far more dangerous than any racism or police brutality existing today.

    So, racism is a very serious problem and a very valid topic. But if we were to prioritize our problems, I would rate systemic postmodernism and systemic Marxism much higher in terms of perniciousness and danger.
    [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg[/URL]

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)
    I just watched the evergreen Weinstein trilogy.
    And am getting a better understanding of what the people cautioning against Antifa and #BLM are afraid of.

    So I find myself on the fence again. I want to acknowledge that people of color are experiencing an unfair amount of obstacles compared to their white peers. That said as a white man being forced to acknowledge complacency just because of the color of my skin feels ludicrous.
    I totally understand where you're coming from, but I think you're missing the point by taking a bit personally. First of all, no one is forcing you to do anything. The reality is, everyone is complacent to some degree. Everyone living in a developed country, especially Americans, where consumerism is engrained in the culture, can live in luxury at the direct cost of those in third world, developing nations. You think things are so cheap, just because? You think your smart phone was ethically made?

    The reality is, your life, in America, is considerably easier for you because of your whiteness. That isn't to say that you can't suffer as greatly as a black person can, it's just that, your skin color will never be used against you, it isn't something you have to be in fear of being misjudged for. It won't cost you jobs, or promotions, or your life. Yes, racism goes in all directions, but you are in far less danger of facing consequences entirely beyond your control due to the color of your skin. Look no further than our own history for proof of that. Since the inception of America, white men have had little to do to get more rights. They could always buy land, vote, go into a wide variety of professions, get an education, etc. Whiteness was never, ever a drawback. In fact, it would often help you. Since 1776.

    Meanwhile, there are black people alive today who remember the days of segregation, of interracial marriage being a crime, of not being allowed to vote, of lynchings being common practice.

    Go and find droves of white Americans who can say the same. I'll wait.

    And that, is simply, it. That is all that systemic racism is trying to point out. That the game is rigged for nearly everyone, yes, but it's extra extra rigged against you if you're black. That's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.

    No one is saying white people should all be held accountable and feel sorry for what is happening. Those that do are either feeling a misplaced sense of insecurity (white guilt, which is very toxic and fundamentally racist) or is totally lost in their head.

    However, what is being asked, is for the elephant in the room to finally be talked about, for white Americans to understand and acknowledge that things need to change, that their black friends, family, coworkers, and fellow citizens, have been opressed for far too long, and it needs to stop. We as individuals are not responsible, but we are complicit. When is the last time any of you have made a concerted effort to patronize a black-owned business, something which is somewhat of a rarity in most of the US, and few of which last as long? That's a great way to help limit oppression and generational poverty. By investing in local economies, and helping to put food on the table of local people, not assholes like Bezos or Gates. And this isn't solely the responsibility of whites. Asians, Hispanics, too. We all need to help each other.

    The same way we need to boycott big business (if we have the luxury to be able to, not so for many of us), buy local and secondhand, recycle, minimize waste, conserve water, reuse things, eat clean, cut out a lot of our meat intake, etc.

    The system, in all of its machinations, exists only because we allow it to. Yes, there's a lot of victimization at work, a lot of disempowerment, but at the end of the day, we are responsible not our own choices, and we need to start making good ones, however and whenever we can, to help ourselves and those around us.

    Otherwise, this country is going to crash so hard, and so fast, it will be unlike anything we have seen in the last 200 years.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    I wonder how many members here would agree with the following. I don't. It's just a statement.

    "The truth is "hate" to those who hate the truth!
    I am a racial realist and idealist. Black, Hispanic, Asian and Jewish Nationalists openly support their racial interests. I am a White Nationalist who supports true diversity and a homeland for all peoples, including mine. We are the voice of the new, embattled White minority!"
    Last edited by AutumnW; 4th July 2020 at 21:15.

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  35. Link to Post #98
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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)
    I just watched the evergreen Weinstein trilogy.
    And am getting a better understanding of what the people cautioning against Antifa and #BLM are afraid of.

    So I find myself on the fence again. I want to acknowledge that people of color are experiencing an unfair amount of obstacles compared to their white peers. That said as a white man being forced to acknowledge complacency just because of the color of my skin feels ludicrous.


    I could kiss you!

    I know we've been sort of butting heads over these issues, but I respect the hell out of you for exploring the other side of this stuff in earnest. I'd pay people to watch those Evergreen videos. I really would. I don't think it's possible to truly understand the scope of current events without seeing those. It's the perfect case study for what's happening now.

    For what it's worth, I don't think you have to compromise your heart here. Racism is a very real and dangerous thing, and it's only natural that anyone with a beating heart and sound mind feel compassion and kindness towards those suffering from it.

    But the problem, as you see in the vids and in the news these days, is that it's all very bloated and exaggerated; oppression has become a religion, complete with "original sin" and faith based acceptances. And the social justice ideologies being fast-tracked in as a result of that religion are far more dangerous than any racism or police brutality existing today.

    So, racism is a very serious problem and a very valid topic. But if we were to prioritize our problems, I would rate systemic postmodernism and systemic Marxism much higher in terms of perniciousness and danger.
    "I could kiss you!" And LGBTQ will fully support you!

    You are part of the backlash, Mike. The extremes of the left are there to keep your sympathy and compassion in check and limit your support for protest about serious issues like policing and judicial reform.

    The U.S. is already a police state for visible minorities, particularly blacks. A few of us have posted numerous articles and videos about that, but I don't think YOU are watching those.

    Canada's major newspapers just started reporting when native Canadians went missing, presumed murdered....in the last five years. How does the mainstream media handle the same issues where young black women are involved?

    You can live in a university town like Chicago, where looney left academia, provide a convenient smokescreen for matters that go right to the murder of George Floyd.

    Fascist forces are highly adept at manipulation. They kept the red scare alive in the U.S. for decades. Communism was never a threat in the U.S, after the Great Depression.

    Meanwhile they slowly created two Americas and convinced the middle and upper classes that their success was all due to their uberman characteristics. All white people, as Tam described so eloquently, are born on first base. by virtue of the fact they don't have to endure police harrassment and a plea bargaining system and the lifetime fallout from that "system." It is next to impossible to rise above that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yWxX5kSg-c

    Please watch this video!!


    And this TED TALK--Why Innocent People Plead Guilty!
    Last edited by AutumnW; 4th July 2020 at 21:26.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    "It is my current conclusion that "woke" culture is a tool being used by those who want to return the world to a strict totalitarian theocratic state. If the world is made crazy and chaotic enough, many people will flock to that "order". For the dark father to put everyone in line." --- Universoul.

    Thanks so much for this, Universoul. Want to highlight it, as it is extremely important!
    Last edited by AutumnW; 4th July 2020 at 21:57.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America


  40. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to AutumnW For This Post:

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