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Thread: Systemic Racism in America

  1. Link to Post #101
    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    "It is my current conclusion that "woke" culture is a tool being used by those who want to return the world to a strict totalitarian theocratic state. If the world is made crazy and chaotic enough, many people will flock to that "order". For the dark father to put everyone in line." --- Delight.

    Thanks so much for this, Delight. Want to highlight it, as it is extremely important!
    No, not my words. The world IS crazy and chaotic and I am not sure at all "why"? Every day it just seems to become more incomprehensible.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Fixed it. Thanks Delight! And thank you Universoul!

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    I wonder how many members here would agree with the following. I don't. It's just a statement.

    "The truth is "hate" to those who hate the truth!
    I am a racial realist and idealist. Black, Hispanic, Asian and Jewish Nationalists openly support their racial interests. I am a White Nationalist who supports true diversity and a homeland for all peoples, including mine. We are the voice of the new, embattled White minority!"
    I don't think anyone here would actively agree with such a statement. And if they do, perhaps they aren't on the right forum.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    I wonder how many members here would agree with the following. I don't. It's just a statement.

    "The truth is "hate" to those who hate the truth!
    I am a racial realist and idealist. Black, Hispanic, Asian and Jewish Nationalists openly support their racial interests. I am a White Nationalist who supports true diversity and a homeland for all peoples, including mine. We are the voice of the new, embattled White minority!"
    I don't think anyone here would actively agree with such a statement. And if they do, perhaps they aren't on the right forum.
    I can think of at least one member who would support this and several more who probably support a soft version of it. Would they admit to it, as it is spelled out here? Not likely.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    We are complicit. Every last one of us.
    I'm not complicit in any damned thing.

    If you think I'm wrong, please explain. Really do.

    Last edited by Tam; 5th July 2020 at 01:43. Reason: On mobile, meant to quote you, accidentally edited post instead (woopsies, reverted)

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    I wonder how many members here would agree with the following. I don't. It's just a statement.

    "The truth is "hate" to those who hate the truth!
    I am a racial realist and idealist. Black, Hispanic, Asian and Jewish Nationalists openly support their racial interests. I am a White Nationalist who supports true diversity and a homeland for all peoples, including mine. We are the voice of the new, embattled White minority!"
    I don't think anyone here would actively agree with such a statement. And if they do, perhaps they aren't on the right forum.
    I can think of at least one member who would support this and several more who probably support a soft version of it. Would they admit to it, as it is spelled out here? Not likely.


    I absolutely do support some version of that. And in the future, when you're compiling your hypothetical witchhunt lists, just feel free to list my name.

    "The truth is hate to those who hate the truth." It's true. What's not true about that? "Safe spaces" are a response to people being unable to even listen to an ideological idea that differs from their own. They call those opposing ideological ideas "hate speech" now, and you can lose your job or your reputation for falling into that trap. In certain situations you can even go to jail.

    I think I am a racial realist. I'm not without emotion but I do approach the topic soberly so as to not let my feelings cloud reality. What's wrong with that?

    Racial idealist? Not sure what that means.

    Celebrating white skin seems as arbitrary and silly as celebrating brown hair. I am not a white nationalist, but I do support people celebrating their cultural traditions. Most of the mainly white, European countries have national holidays designed to celebrate this stuff. I think that's great. A few of those holidays translate over here; I'm thinking of things like St Patrick's Day.

    If you ask a white American what their ancestral background is, they'll likely tell you they're part this and part that and part German and part English and so on and so forth. If you ask a black American - at least one that has several generations of history in the states - what their ancestral background is, they'll almost always just say "African". At least that's been my experience. Whites tend to identify with their ancestral countries, whereas blacks tend to identify with, well..being black.

    So I don't even know what "white culture" is necessarily, which I assume would be a prerequisite to being a white nationalist.

    I do support organic diversity for all cultures here, but not the forced, tyrannical kind masquerading as the real thing.

    If systemic racism was merely a nod to whites having some generational advantages (or starting on first base, as Tam puts it), I might just agree and not think much of it. But the phrase "systemic racism" has now become part of a hateful lexicon that, in its totality, is very much a racist, anti-white, Marxist ideology that pretends to be seeking fairness but is really seeking power. And it's doing it in a very dangerous way. So, white minority? No. Embattled? Yeah!
    Last edited by Mike; 5th July 2020 at 01:25.
    [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg[/URL]

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    We are complicit. Every last one of us.
    I'm not complicit in any damned thing.

    If you think I'm wrong, please explain. Really do.

    My bad, I should have made it clearer. Every last American is complicit in allowing the gears of the machine to perpetuate systemic racism.

    You, a UK national living in Ecuador, have no complicity whatsoever.

    If you'd like me to explain why Americans are complicit, I'd be happy to lay it out.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    But the phrase "systemic racism" has now become part of a hateful lexicon that, in its totality, is very much a racist, anti-white, Marxist ideology that pretends to be seeking fairness but is really seeking power. And it's doing it in a very dangerous way. So, white minority? No. Embattled? Yeah!
    For those who haven't yet seen these threads...

    Former Social Justice Warrior Explains why Social Justice is all about power and control.

    Evergreen madness

    The genius of the crowd

    Menstruators And People of Whiteness, Act now

    Moral reparations and The activist Ethos

    Cambridge professor: White lives don't matter; abolish whiteness

    Tyranny one tiny little step at a time

    And here we go...

    3 options: shame silence or smear campaign
    [URL="[url]http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111432-Constance-s-empowerment-portal[/url]"]Constance's Empowerment Portal[/URL]
    [URL="http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?110530-Draw-your-sword-things-are-about-to-get-real.&p=1367198#post1367198"]Draw your sword, things are about to get real[/URL]

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Wasn't actually thinking about you, Mike. Nor was I thinking about safe spaces or the looney left. My hypothetical witch hunt list? Seriously...that's just funny. It's entirely voluntary for someone to agree or disagree with the statement I posted. It could be seen as a self indictment to support it or something to be proud of.

    Did you watch the videos I posted? I've watched hours of both Weinsteins and Jordan Peterson. What you seem to be consistently avoiding is commenting on policing and the judicial system. I would really appreciate it if you at least watched some videos about that.

    Something else that is important here...when I say Communism isn't a threat, I am talking about the economic system. Authoritarianism IS a huge threat. And when I mention the PC loony madness in academia as being a smokescreeen, I think it's a threat, but a manufactured one.

    Theoretically, I figure a lot of the gender studies departments have been funded by the hard right wing to cause just the kind of very legitimate backlash you are immersed in right now.

    As far as going to jail because of using the wrong pronouns...you mentioned that this could happen in Canada in a thread awhile back. I can assure you, nobody goes to jail for that up here. Wherever you read that, just dismiss it as part of feeding a backlash to hand fascists more power.
    Last edited by AutumnW; 5th July 2020 at 02:23.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    We are complicit. Every last one of us.
    I'm not complicit in any damned thing.

    If you think I'm wrong, please explain. Really do.

    My bad, I should have made it clearer. Every last American is complicit in allowing the gears of the machine to perpetuate systemic racism.

    You, a UK national living in Ecuador, have no complicity whatsoever.

    If you'd like me to explain why Americans are complicit, I'd be happy to lay it out.

    What if Bill moved to the U.S.? Would he be complicit then? And if so, when? When he first touched down? 6 months later? 6 years later? How exactly does one earn their complicity card? And is there any way to transcend it?

    The woke crowd in England say they're just as systemically racist as the U.S. Was Bill - a white straight male - complicit while he lived in the U.K.? If not, why? If so, at what point was he no longer complicit? When he got on the plane for Ecuador? When he landed in Ecuador? Two years later? How does that work?

    If I crossed the border into Canada, would I still be complicit?

    *Every* last American is complicit? Does that include babies too? At what age does one inherit the mantle of complicity? Ten? Twelve?

    I'm being a little tongue in cheek here But I'm also being serious! Since I am one of those complicit Americans, I would very much appreciate it if you laid it all out
    [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg[/URL]

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Jess, come on. You listed things that are ostensibly lifted from some white nationalist manifesto and then dared a bunch of unnamed but obvious members to fall for the trap. How could I not be on that list? Come on man!

    You were right to call me out on not watching the videos. Fair enough. I'll watch the one you posted right now.
    [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg[/URL]

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Jess, come on. You listed things that are ostensibly lifted from some white nationalist manifesto and then dared a bunch of unnamed but obvious members to fall for the trap. How could I not be on that list? Come on man!

    You were right to call me out on not watching the videos. Fair enough. I'll watch the one you posted right now.
    Trust me. I know you well enough to understand you aren't a white supremacist...and I wasn't thinking about you when I posted it. Oh, actually, what I thought was, "I hope Mike doesn't think I mean him."

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Jess, come on. You listed things that are ostensibly lifted from some white nationalist manifesto and then dared a bunch of unnamed but obvious members to fall for the trap. How could I not be on that list? Come on man!

    You were right to call me out on not watching the videos. Fair enough. I'll watch the one you posted right now.
    Trust me. I know you well enough to understand you aren't a white supremacist...and I wasn't thinking about you when I posted it. Oh, actually, what I thought was, "I hope Mike doesn't think I mean him."
    [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4xh8I9XuUg[/URL]

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)

    I totally understand where you're coming from, but I think you're missing the point by taking a bit personally. First of all, no one is forcing you to do anything.
    I honestly hope so, if the evergreen college is any kind of example though pleading guilty and acknowledge ones inherent racism, take mandatory courses on how to behave in the workplace are things I do worry about.

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    The reality is, everyone is complacent to some degree. Everyone living in a developed country, especially Americans, where consumerism is ingrained in the culture, can live in luxury at the direct cost of those in third world, developing nations. You think things are so cheap, just because? You think your smart phone was ethically made?
    I truly wonder how much of this you think I do not understand.
    Why would you say this in order to convince a 47 year old white dutch dude who has been some sort of post punk squatting hippy activist since the late 80's and is now working a full time job (as an assistant nurse) to support a family of 8

    That said the first sentence, what you call reality is what this thread is trying to answer correct? Consumerism is not in essence racist in my understanding it's capitalist. And I am very very aware of the inequality that is fed by the capitalist beast.
    Quote Posted by Tam (here)

    The reality is, your life, in America, is considerably easier for you because of your whiteness. That isn't to say that you can't suffer as greatly as a black person can, it's just that, your skin color will never be used against you, it isn't something you have to be in fear of being misjudged for. It won't cost you jobs, or promotions, or your life. Yes, racism goes in all directions, but you are in far less danger of facing consequences entirely beyond your control due to the color of your skin. Look no further than our own history for proof of that. Since the inception of America, white men have had little to do to get more rights. They could always buy land, vote, go into a wide variety of professions, get an education, etc. Whiteness was never, ever a drawback. In fact, it would often help you. Since 1776.
    I want to believe this, because it feels right. I cannot however find much evidence of this to support that claim. I see many many odd discrepancies pop up though that look like is is so, but could be explained because of several reasons besides racism.
    Now first of I am not American, Living in Holland I can say that at least in public and governmental jobs there has been a positive discrimination policy supporting diversity by gender and race, where by equal suitability a white cis gender male would not get the job.

    Which in turn have causes right winged political parties to gain much much footing and a larges member base.
    Quote Posted by Tam (here)

    No one is saying white people should all be held accountable and feel sorry for what is happening. Those that do are either feeling a misplaced sense of insecurity (white guilt, which is very toxic and fundamentally racist) or is totally lost in their head.
    Have you seen the evergreen video's? Because that is exactly what was asked, the way it was phrased does seem toxic and fundamentally racist. And hearing these phrases mimicked by speakers on #BLM rallies even over here in ff-ing nowhereville Holland with 200 plus protesters in support of #BLM has me questioning the validity of some of the claims and got me looking deeper into this stuff.

    So far I find it very difficult to find the systemic in sytemic racism.
    AM I getting a clearer picture of how subjective reality is being mirrored to an outside reality without questioning the validity of the subjective outlook on life. And do I see the split between left and right grow harder and deeper over fear based assumptions and the decline of free speech and conversation.

    With Love
    Eelco

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    We are complicit. Every last one of us.
    I'm not complicit in any damned thing.

    If you think I'm wrong, please explain. Really do.

    My bad, I should have made it clearer. Every last American is complicit in allowing the gears of the machine to perpetuate systemic racism.

    You, a UK national living in Ecuador, have no complicity whatsoever.

    If you'd like me to explain why Americans are complicit, I'd be happy to lay it out.
    As someone not living in America Yes please.

    WIth Love
    Last edited by Catsquotl; 5th July 2020 at 07:23.
    ---
    Please leave some of your light everywhere you go.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by Catsquotl (here)
    I just watched the evergreen Weinstein trilogy.
    And am getting a better understanding of what the people cautioning against Antifa and #BLM are afraid of.

    So I find myself on the fence again. I want to acknowledge that people of color are experiencing an unfair amount of obstacles compared to their white peers. That said as a white man being forced to acknowledge complacency just because of the color of my skin feels ludicrous.


    I could kiss you!

    I know we've been sort of butting heads over these issues, but I respect the hell out of you for exploring the other side of this stuff in earnest. I'd pay people to watch those Evergreen videos. I really would.
    Thank you, should I send you my paypall or bank info?
    ---
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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    We are complicit. Every last one of us.
    I'm not complicit in any damned thing.

    If you think I'm wrong, please explain. Really do.

    My bad, I should have made it clearer. Every last American is complicit in allowing the gears of the machine to perpetuate systemic racism.

    You, a UK national living in Ecuador, have no complicity whatsoever.

    If you'd like me to explain why Americans are complicit, I'd be happy to lay it out.
    I don't believe that for a moment (that all Americans are complicit). I know you mean well (of course! ), but that's
    1. Straight out of the SJW accusatory witch-hunt playbook. (See this important thread.)
    2. A projected guilt trip that has no foundation.
    3. An indictment of millions of Americans who aren't complicit in anything at all and never "oppressed" anyone.
    4. A covert instruction for all those people to take a knee in submissive apology for something most of them haven't done.
    You can't blame 200 million people (the estimated white population of America) for things that are systemic, i.e. institutional, financial, educational, and/or political.

    Each one of those 200 million is a unique individual, with their own upbringing, social background, culture, education, beliefs, values, and wealth and power (or in the vast majority of cases, no wealth or power at all).

    The system affects almost everyone. That's what systems do.

    And the same applies in other countries. The thread title is Systemic Racism in America. But this has to apply elsewhere as well.

    It'd be interesting to hear from our Australian friends here. Is there present-day systemic racism in Australia? I don't know for sure, but there certainly used to be. Was every Australian complicit, even then? Of course not.

    Read about what happened to Peter Norman, the 1968 200m Olympic silver medalist, whose whole life was wrecked because he supported the immensely brave stand taken by American athletes Tommie Smith and John Carlos, who famously gave their black power salute on the winners' podium.

    He wasn't complicit in Australian racism. He was a victim. (That may deserve its own detailed post on the Racism thread, or maybe even a thread of its own in his honor.)

    And there's racism in Ecuador, inasmuch as the indigenous people are certainly an underprivileged minority with a whole laundry list of legitimate longterm grievances. They're regarded as a kind of lower caste. (This is the case in many South American countries.) I'm resident here. Am I complicit? Of course not.

    There are close parallels in many other countries. India. South Africa. Nigeria. China.

    I could go on and on. (But I won't! )

    No-one can generalize like this.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 6th July 2020 at 00:43.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Sarah Rainsong (here)
    Okay, so the title of the thread is probably not the best, but couldn't think of anything better. I am curious about how people really look at this, so I'd love to hear others' opinions. These questions could easily apply to many countries, but as I live in America, that's what I'm focusing on. If you'd like to chime in with your experiences from another country, of course that's welcome! But please let us know what country you're talking about.

    Do you think there is systemic racism in any institutionalized areas of America? (This would extend from the currently-much-discussed police to the medical field to the education system.) This is not about individuals, but group think and actions as well as policies that were originally made to repress and oppress races and other specific groups of people. (And of course, "races" is a misnomer, but for the sake of discussion, let's not get into that.)

    Please, don't argue with someone because they may have a different opinion than you. Just share your thoughts. Consider this more of an information gathering session, not a place to discuss or argue about how to fix anything (if anything even needs to be fixed). If you need to define some parameters for your own explanations, please do so! Detail is encouraged.
    No, I do not. I do not think the problem many Americans face is prejudice against skin pigmentation, but big, unaccountable government which can easily be misconstrued as systemic racism.

    The way I see are as follows:
    • The larger the political unit, the smaller the significance of the individual member and the greater the controlling power at the centre.
    • Any large, centralised governing body which controls the army, the police, the money system and the judiciary, and which presumes to pronounce on matters concerning education, welfare and other essentially local matters, is contriving a full-frontal assault on freedom and should therefore be denounced and its edicts ignored.
    • Centralised power breeds its own interests and prerogatives which are inevitably in conflict with the citizen, except in the small instances where they may coincide; This is true not only of government but of any body, be it a political party, a church, a university, a charity or a sports or other social organisation.
    • We must cherish locally controlled newspapers and TV stations as bulwarks of freedom and sources of information, while giving up mainstream media.
    • We must be our own experts, and stop looking to the media and 'opinion' for information.
    • Democracy does not mean government OF the people, nor government FOR the people, both are totalitarian concepts; it means government BY the people.
    • Authority can only stem from the judgements of people in their neighbourhood relationships. When power is wielded by forces beyond the neighbourhood, democracy ceases to function.
    • Jesus said 'Love thy neighbour'. He did not say 'Love thy fellow citizen of the Roman Empire'; nor did he say 'Love thy supermarket'.
    • Those who profess to love everybody are really confessing that they are unable to love anybody.
    • Our culture and civilisation is evil because it is ugly; it is ugly because people no longer create and instead obey edicts of forces they have no control over.
    • Chain stores, giant supermarkets, branch banks and insurance offices and the like are one of the means by which the wealth of local communities is haemorrhaged.
    • Power not only corrupts, it creates nothing but contempt in those over whom it is exercised.

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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    We talked a lot about skin color.

    There is another type of racism - those with an accent and/or poor command of the official language of a country. This is probably far more prevalent here and world wide than skin color. It is easy to pick out the new-comers from foreign lands and languages and single them out because they are different.

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    I wonder how many members here would agree with the following. I don't. It's just a statement.

    "The truth is "hate" to those who hate the truth!
    I am a realist and idealist. Black, Hispanic, Asian and Jewish Nationalists openly support their racial interests. who supports true diversity and a homeland for all peoples."
    I don't think anyone here would actively agree with such a statement. And if they do, perhaps they aren't on the right forum.
    Removing the unnecessary identity politics out of the qoute. There was a time when being a realist, idealist and wanting respect and freedom for all races and nations was considered ‘Libertarian’. Just goes to show how far the Overton Window has been pushed by Marxist propoganda when Libertarian values are now conflated with ‘white supremacy’ and ‘neo-nazis’.

    There’s just no objectivity in any of these accusations anymore. It seems anyone further right than the ‘Antifa Handbook’ gets insinuated to be a modern day Nazi. It’s just not in any way true whatsoever, and more importantly, the public have heard these accusations so often that the apathy levels are going through the roof. It just puts people off the legitimate causes and legitimate problems by polarising people over what should be noble values. I’m more worried about the non-realists, the non-idealists, those who don’t value true diversity, those who don’t value respect and freedom for all races and nations — you know — the Marxist nihilists who act like racist Nazis while accusing everyone else of being a racist Nazi. The irony!

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    Default Re: Systemic Racism in America

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Tam (here)
    We are complicit. Every last one of us.
    I'm not complicit in any damned thing.

    If you think I'm wrong, please explain. Really do.

    This says it all and what people are reacting to when accusations are thrown around. Keep in mind this post isn't directed at anyone specifically. It's my two cents on the issue of general accusation.

    Putting aside theories about conspiracies or why the herd is being hit with "everyone is racist" at the end of the lockdown or why politicians, corporations, and the media are parroting it. If we wanted to approach the issue of racism and bring awareness to humanity's tribal instincts, using general statements of accusation is the wrong way. To start with guilt is the wrong way. It sets people against the message because something in them says "This general accusation of guilt is wrong".

    The issue is not about complicity, it's about complacency and consent. The same happens in the climate change movement. I'm surprised Greta isn't on TV yet telling humanity "You are all guilty because you are carbon based life forms and exhale CO2". The climate change guilt against the human spirit wasn't working. Many more people are going along with the "You're all racist!" narrative which is disturbing.

    It's about getting people to consent to false guilt and how horrible they are for being human. It was about this in Nazi Germany, and during the Inquisition, and it was about this when you could stone someone to death for stealing a loaf of bread.

    Starting with an implication of "You're wrong", which others can't argue because it makes them guiltier according to the accusation, is not the way to heal. It's like testing to see if witches can float. If they float they get burned, if they sink they're not a witch although drown. Now that is ludicrous hyperbole, yet the negative pattern of accusation is the same. To see wrong in others, and the world with fear and as wrong, is a shadow which has been with the human race throughout history. Why, is an esoteric question which would require it's own debates.

    To accuse is starting from a negative place. We can't move forward while moving backward or get positivity from negativity. The great issue I see, and maybe I'm wrong, is how our minds are conditioned to work in a negating, subtracting, reductive way.

    We're so defeating of ourselves and each other to work on changing that within ourselves is the great struggle. We're all guilty of being negatively conditioned or maybe it's in our human condition. Yet I'm not saying "You're guilty!". I think humanity is wonderful and has much potential yet also has a self destructive side which is not first harmful socially or environmentally rather psychologically and spiritually to itself. So it's important to ask ourselves what are we feeding into? What energy of the spectrum and struggle are we aligning with and reinforcing?
    Last edited by Universoul; 5th July 2020 at 14:26. Reason: brevity

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