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Thread: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)

    This is interesting. I don't ever see her as red, always black or close to it emanating things that are usually blue.

    "Vajrayogini Maitri Dakini" is like Vajrayogini Friendly Dakini, is it not? I have to figure that one out.
    Ok. So "clear" is kind of any color, translucent or transparent?

    There is definitely a Krodha Kali, Troma Nagmo (Sanskrit: Krishna Krodhini. English: the Fierce Black One), considered Tara and Varahi. Lineage from India: Vajradhara, Jnana Dakini, Virupa, Brahmin Aryadeva, Pha Dampa Sanggye (11th century), etc.

    She is the one generally applied to the Chod rite.

    As to whether that is exactly "black", well, not necessarily. Many deities described as "krsna" are often painted black. I am not sure why. The sadhanas can express black if they need to. This "Black" Vajrayogini is simple, can be the center of Five Dakinis, or on her own.

    Maitri is an important lineage transmitter, who I get confused with Mitra, but they are different guys. It appears there are at least a couple kinds of "energetic increase" that a dakini can display. Naro's dakini will drink from her skullcup. Maitri's dakini has a foot high in the air, representing flight, or Akasha Dhatvishvari. It is possible that she may even get her second foot going, in which case she may appear a bit like Sukhasiddhi:









    The one beyond that is Buddhadakini, who has sex with Mahamaya by lifting both feet off the ground.

    There is some confusion of color and the right name, but, Troma is ostensibly in Vajra Family, and cannot help but be some extrapolation of Mahacina Krama Tara. Or, at least, something done by Virupa, in which case I would try to start from the original. I do not believe it is even in Sadhanamala. It, and the Taranatha transmissions, have multiple Naro Dakinis and Maitri Dakinis, which will walk us towards Cinnamasta.

    Cinnamasta is supported by Vairocani, who was difficult to trace, and by the even more obscure Varnani. Either text isolates Varnani one time in a single sadhana--wherein she is even above Buddhadakini, because she is Sarva Buddha Dakini. Sadhanamala 225 is:

    śrī oḍiyānavajrapīṭhavinirgataūrdhvapādavajra-
    vārāhīsādhanaṃ samāptam

    This is the Red Varahi who casts Inverted Stupa, and the phrase Urdhva Pada is "raised foot", which means Maitri Dakini. So we might contend that Vairocani is something fostered by Tapas, whereas Varnani is perhaps a bit higher, has no Hindu equivalent that I know of right off hand, and takes Generation Stage for granted. It may be taking Varahi for granted, and probably is asking for success in Mahamaya Tantra, thereby making Sarva Buddha Dakini a "blossoming" of Buddha Dakini. The Buddha Dakini is in Tathagata or Vairocana Family, and so the Chakrasamvara couple itself, even though counted a a "single deity", is usually a Tathagata Family female with a Vajra Family male.

    Since this is in the same book, she cannot be much different from the one Ekajati summons. In both cases, there is a copy of Inverted Stupa, which is rare. Hari Hari Vahana also has it, Maya Jala Kurukulla has half of it, and it is Vajra Tara who appears to have it as well as an upright stupa.

    Actually, Maitri Dakini as RG 31 does use Vairocani as well, and it skips the Inverted Stupa, so it is not quite the same. Interestingly, his Black Varahi uses Guhyajnana's Ha Ri Ni Sa syllables, and her retinue as a whole is Vajra Dakini. Taranatha's Dakini or Varahi sadhanas are somewhat of a tumult of Cinnamasta and Vajra Dakini, it is not very clear, the Indian source seems superior to me. Again, not saying these are wrong or do not work, but I think you really need the full preparation.

    It is something like the "first league" of dakinis are the ones taught by Naro, Maitri, and Indrabhuti, and then the sequence in Chakrasamvara-related tantra is:

    Jnana Dakini with Yogambara

    Buddha Dakini with Mahamaya

    Sarva Buddha Dakini--uncertain, other than a component of Cinnamasta

    Buddhism generally overlooks the ajna center, and defines Cinnamasta as Tri-kaya Vajrayogini. That just means a Vajrayogini sadhana cultivated to the point where the meditator assumes her Body, Speech, and Mind, until the activated Cinnamasta eventually blows one's "self" away.

    So the three red dakinis are famous, but, in Nepal, the fourth is alternately Red Guhyajnana Dakini--Blue Mahacina Tara; those are almost the same form at the same temple, wherein the Blue is restricted or concealed, and, according to them, is the basis for the penultimate Guhyeshvari. I know of nothing more esoteric. She is considered the top tier beyond the regular Prajnas, along with Vasudhara and Parasol. Vasudhara has major Hindu roots; Parasol is the major Usnisa daity, which is purely Buddhist, but she absorbs the Hindu Pratyangira, who is a Teevra Devata like Cinnamasta--extremely fierce, sharp, and dangerous to the practitioner or is said to outright kill devotees who toy around with it.

    One of the main clues I find for dakinis is that they will do whatever you are serious about. Since the ordinary person is consumed by mortal, ignorant things, dakinis have no love for this and can cause all manner of harm. They will cheat or trick you if you have any mental holes that allow it. But, if you like what they actually do, unveiling ever-more-subtle layers of energy in the subtle body and increasing devotion to Dharma, then you never deviate, because if you do, they will.

    One of the main Mahacina Tara origin legends is Vasistha going to find Buddha drinking, having sex, etc., and then he appeared as Narayan with the Mahashaktis. Studies on the Tantras tries to "translate" this into something more palatable to orthodox Hindus:

    To take the case of the vamacara (which means the ‘left’—viparlta
    —and not the ‘left-handed’ path) again: In this the sadhaka
    (aspirant) has to make use of a certain kind of ritual (technically
    called the pancatattva) which, whilst leading admittedly to some
    abuse in unsuitable cases and conditions, has made, in the judgement of those who do not understand and discriminate, the
    whole cult of the Tantra suspect. Those who understand nothing
    of the ‘return current’ or ‘reversing process’, involved in the
    theory and practice of the so-called ‘left’ path, naturally fail to
    perceive that there may be any points of contact between this
    and the theory and practice of the Advaita Vedanta. Apart from
    the face that a full-blooded counterpart of the essentials of the
    pancatattva worship, in their ‘gross’, ‘proxy’, and ‘esoteric’ forms,
    can be traced down to all the Vedic strata, and also apart from
    the probability of a modified shape being given to, and a special
    emphasis being laid on, the ancient, immemorial Vedic worship,
    by influences coming from outside the limits of India proper
    (e.g. Tibet or Mahacina), it ought to be recognized by all thinking
    people that the pancatattva worship, in its principle and in its
    tendency, is a legitimate form of the Advaita worship.



    In Search of Bhagavati Tara gives an account of Vasistha, and says that Mahacina Krama Tara was first, and that Ugra Tara was developed from her. Also:

    In the setting of a smashāna – to those deeply involved in sādhana, the whole world may appear like one – Tārā is represented by the light emanating from a funeral pyre that acts as a guide in an otherwise lonely, fearsome and awe-inspiring atmosphere. Additionally, the snakes on her body are said to represent her control over the realm of pitr-s.

    Both Mahacina sadhanas indicate laughter (loud and terrible) by Hasa.

    Wrath is inevitable. It may be an individual matter to the degree of karma. I must be cursed. I am forced to live in a kill or be killed mentality. Not my choice. I am usually the most peaceful and patient person you could find, but, as I age, it just keeps getting worse. I am not a Bodhisattva, and wind up getting filled with rage according to things that would infuriate anyone. To be in Vajra Family would mean that anger is your normal reaction to anything, which certainly is not the case with me, I did have inner obstacles like that, but basic Green Tara helped me with such things a long time ago. Because I lack worldly power/am not equal to others, this probably places me in Karma Family...if I was equal in any kind of normal way, these things would not happen.

    There is a tremendous gulf between the meditations and sadhanas I would like to do, versus my actual existence, which is lower than an animal, perhaps lower than an object.

    Padmasambhava killed someone unnecessarily, although it was not out of rage, it was so he would be banished. I am perhaps a bit edgy about Vajrabhairava, since Rwa Lotsawa slew about a dozen rival teachers; eventually, Rwa and Nyan slew each other. That perhaps sounds strange if we have seen the Buddhist monk self-immolating over the Vietnam War. But there is no shortage of violence if we think of Shaolin; Bodhidharma was an expert at war, bringing the Indian Kalaripayattu fighting style which he blended with some old books found there, which were Chuan Fa "Fist Law" or something similar. They mainly had to protect themselves against armed bandits. But in Mahabharata or the story of Parasu Rama, there is such a large amount of death, truly staggering.

    There is no use being intimidated by wrath, and usually, as a force, it is called "Anger, Remover of Obstacles". I suppose it is a matter of channeling it to appropriate targets, rather than stewing in it.

    Ekajati Pratibaddha actually means "bound to one more birth" as for example Maitreya. However it still does mean highest stage of Bodhisattva-hood. It is in the apparently one-sentence Amitabha Sutra. Although the word has many meanings, in Buddhism, and overall, it mainly means Birth, and the notion "clotted hair" is an extremely minor usage, about like nutmeg. If you rake all possible meanings, it could be argued that Ekajati means One Reduction of Fractions to a Common Denominator. That might almost make sense, but, then you could say she is One Jasmine.

    I always thought she was closer to Pali Eka Gatta "one pointedness" which is why sometimes shown with One Braid and so forth, however, this seems to be a trivial aspect of her compared to Vidyujjvalakarali Ekajati.

    Sri Aurobindo is perhaps not too bad in a short piece on Dawn and Night, which looks like a reasonable Vedic and English primer similar to Buddhist Marici and Ekajati. It speaks in terms of material creation, where again, tantra is Nirvritti or the reverse of this.

    We might tend to think too heavily in terms of "material creation", whereas the real meaning is mental formation of shapes in root matter, and so Pravritti and Nirvritti are more like mental activities than creation in the usual sense, the outgoing and ingoing breath, structure and dissolution.

    He also mentions Ocean-Dwelling Fire three times on p. 371 of Hymns to Mystic Fire. I am not quite sure how he means it, but, at least he has some view of Watery Fire perhaps as related to electricity.

    HPB's Blue Lotus referred to Varuni as "originally heat" and then wine; although she also mentions "two Lakshmis", she does not appear to have the idea of Varuni as the daughter of Varuna's shakti Varuni. She does say that Lakshmi visits Varuni in Pushkara Lake. This name can mean a son of Varuna, or blue lotus, and also:

    That the flower was early used for personal adornment is shown by an epithet of the Aśvins, ‘lotus-crowned’ (puṣkara-sraj).

    Again, each type of lotus such as Kamala indicates a different color and slightly different meaning, blue commony beaing called Utpala. Blue Lotus is a good short summary, she mentions Amrita, and it is just more Puranic than it makes the tantric Buddhist connections. Pushkar is often described in the scriptures as the only Brahma temple in the world, owing to the curse of Savitri, but also as the "King of the sacred places of the Hindus". So far, Mahattari is the only one specifically attributed a fiery blue lotus.

    The "historical increase" of Varuni sounds to me like what the alchemists called Watery Fire, which was the quintessence of the Twelve Zodiacal, Seven Planetary, and Four Form Elements. Isaac Newton said this was variously called Isis, Juno, or Ceres, and personally referred to it as quintessence of chaos element, i. e. Mundus. He said it was represented by antimony or Magnesia Gebri. Magnesia is not a particular element, but all of them. "It is fiery, aery, earthy, watery. It is heat and dryness, humidity and cold. It is watery fire and fiery water. It is a corporeal spirit and a spiritual body. It is the condensed spirit of the world."

    This, from below, links earth with heaven, as the heavenly quintessence links from above. He noted that the symbol for antimony was based on the orb held by Kings, symbol of a redeemed earth, a sphere surmounted by a cross. Only antimony is "the lawful son of the sun and the true sun of nature".

    The Orb of Kings is the Earth Glyph, which fits to the Venus Glyph or Mirror or Ankh, which preserves the teaching that the "heavenly union" acquired by watery fire or antimony binds man to the formless kingdom, the Agnishvattas, which is Venus. Or, perhaps it is more accurate to say the Orb is Antimony, which is the Earth Glyph which has raised the cross above:








    For the color black, some Buddhist sadhanas speak of collyrium, which is eye make-up, or medicine, it can be a few different things, but the Egyptians seem to have used the black kind a lot. Another phrase is "black like newly-split antimony", which would occur if its vapor was rapidly cooled.

    I am pretty sure the alchemical watery fire or antimony, being a type of refined compound, is the western parallel to what we are saying about the "base" of an inverted stupa joining the base of the deity's stupa. If Venus merges with the Orb, you get:

    O
    +
    O

    It is like having sacrificed everything to Agni, the material plane has been offered to the Agnishvattas, or Venus, or Lakshmi.

    Buddhist Mantras in the form of Mandala Deities translates four chapters from Abhidanottara Tantra, the ones that detail the Four Chakrasamvara Mandalas. One is Armor Deities/Six Yoginis, then Seven Syllable mantra with Vajradaka, then the long Heruka mantra referring to Dakini Jala, and then Vairocani mantra.

    It is centered on Varahi who in one instance arises from the letter Sri; it also has a version centered on Manjuvajra, which I did not know existed. The main difference with Samvarodaya Tantra is by using Vaiorcani within Armor Deities instead of Varahi; and again, this is sequential, since Vairocani produces Varahi. That is the main difference. Abhidanottara or Laghuna Samvara was probably composed first, however, the Samvarodaya is very "linky" by explaining Varuni as the source of Vairocani. This forces us to view the deities as tangible phases, moreso than a piece of praise to memorize. Chakrasamvara texts are designed to be inoperable; you have to fill in the blanks. That is why Varuni + Armor Deities is about the highest thing I would recommend as an outer Yoga devotee; the texts assert that this is what is used to become a Chakravartin, or i. e. master the Six Family Wheel as in Dakini Jala, which is really the oldest or original Chakrasamvara text, even though not called such by name. The reverse is true, Chakrasamvara hails Dakini Jala.

    That is why I would say when yoga symbols and concepts become inner realities, Dakini Jala and Varuni are the most useful guides.

    One can also find the yogini Vadava, Mare, the name of Mare's Mouth Ocean Fire, and although I am unsure if this is supposed to translate the thing into the human body, it may.

    Samvarodaya's male-first Armor Deities also hosts Samvari, whom one might think means something like a female Chakrasamvara, however, at the end of a list of Shakti Pithas, she is found as an equivalent of Vimala, probably in Bengal.

    The Varuni article is very recent and much better than the Mahacina one, and has the pieces that connect Varuni into Samvarodaya Tantra. She "is" the Inverted Stupa of anyone--or Sky element mixed into the sacred water/milk/soma--but for instance Varahi 225-226 very succinctly point to Inverted Stupa plus Armor Deities. There is not much way around it as being "the" method that begins all higher tantras.

    Seven Syllable deity appears to continue using the "six yoginis" or Wrathful Prajnas, renamed and shuffled, to represent the Path more than Protection, however it is mainly a way to learn the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment, since the sadhana requires Varahi to enter Union. This mantra is equal to Reversed White Heruka, who is with White Vairocani, which is much simpler than Vajradaka, and is probably the "transition" where it is self-arisen, no longer a visualization with effort.

    Samvarodaya chapters or Arthur Avalon's Chakrasamvara article or text.
    Last edited by shaberon; 7th September 2020 at 11:58.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Ok. So "clear" is kind of any color, translucent or transparent?
    Not really. Light green is the "natural" color. But that color gets things added to it in response to different kinds of bliss -- in different places, as the blue is an iridescent sheen on the surface, the yellow is a glow, the red is streaks.

    The green and black metallic is a specific thing having to do with a particular generation, it is opaque. The yellow with red tinge is only pelvic and has a very specific thing, during which I don't have much body, I have instead deserts and bones and such.

    The recent very dark night sky blue color is nearly opaque but isn't black like the black in the green and black. It is I think because my ribcage is more like the sky when it is crackling lightning than it is a body at times.

    Quote This is the Red Varahi who casts Inverted Stupa, and the phrase Urdhva Pada is "raised foot", which means Maitri Dakini. So we might contend that Vairocani is something fostered by Tapas, whereas Varnani is perhaps a bit higher, has no Hindu equivalent that I know of right off hand, and takes Generation Stage for granted.
    I edited to put this in, I had intended to say it but forgot. Does the "raised foot" really indicate a hierarchy? Vajrayogini is seen in multiple stances, one is raised foot but not all.
    The other thing is that at least for part of the internet sourcing, Varnani is synonymous with Varuni?

    Quote One of the main clues I find for dakinis is that they will do whatever you are serious about. Since the ordinary person is consumed by mortal, ignorant things, dakinis have no love for this and can cause all manner of harm. They will cheat or trick you if you have any mental holes that allow it. But, if you like what they actually do, unveiling ever-more-subtle layers of energy in the subtle body and increasing devotion to Dharma, then you never deviate, because if you do, they will.
    Interesting. There are things I do or don't do I suppose based on the fact that I have to live up to my part of the bargain. What I feel like I get out of it is to continue to learn and train. So I guess that fits this description.

    The article by Buhnemann about Mahacina Krama Tara both says she is the earliest and speculates that perhaps she comes from Bon. There is a belief that Mahacina is the Sutlej valley -- which would make it Tholing, the ancient capital of Guge. That fits with what I had read before that Cina is Ngari or Guge, and Mahacina adds Ladakh. The area also goes back for Bon, because it is not far from the ancient capital of Shang Shung, Khyunglung, Khyung meaning the horned eagle of the Shang Shung.
    Last edited by Old Student; 8th September 2020 at 14:38. Reason: forgot something

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)

    Not really. Light green is the "natural" color. But that color gets things added to it in response to different kinds of bliss -- in different places, as the blue is an iridescent sheen on the surface, the yellow is a glow, the red is streaks.
    Allright. It may not exactly match what I meant by "spectra", but it is close. In the fields of color, for example, everything could become conditioned by a relatively crude green--orange axis, or, a finer pink-yellow one. The "external rainbow" I saw is far below what I expect you mean by rainbow bliss--in fact it is not really any different than diffraction:






    Which perhaps is just a result of dilation. One of the few "subtle muscles" I have ever been able to control is dilation.

    The lightish-green hue however is pervasive, something like a "base", on which other kinds of light begin. I think it is bio-luminescence, since even a rock is considered alive. But then if one "ascends" the scale, the rock lacks the "higher correspondence" of a human being, its Golden Egg. "Bioluminescence" is not completely the scientific kind, but close. Maybe it is infra-red. I do not know an esoteric term for this light yet. It does not match most aura pictures. More pale than solid or fiery. It is part of the physical plane, whereas the egg is not. I would like to find the right word and picture, but, overall, I would have to say that yes, the yellowish-green is "natural", or inherent, something like a paint base into which...other appearances can be mixed, which may be many and variegated...until, "above" that, is a stage that is simpler, but much more saturated, that perhaps could be called opaque color.

    In the Signs associated with Dissolution, it has been debated whether the first is Marici--Mirage or Dhuma--Smoke, but, after these, the pattern is pretty specific. In actual use, I think the ordinary person would have tremendous difficulty with Khadyota--Fireflies, while it is probably possible to experience the first one or two of these and just file it as "weird".

    A mirage can shimmer, and smoke naturally roils, and whichever one it is, is related to this kind of motion:







    Smoke matches the "get there" sadhana which places Amoghasiddhi--Smoke deities at the top end, and so, if you did that "with effort", then, it would make sense that smoke continues as the first "without effort" or self-arising Sign, being similar to this wolf. Mirage, on the other hand, could perhaps apply to the yellowish-green glow, in which case, it is probably fair to say, well, you might be able to detect this first, without the motion. Fireflies is not an appropriate term for either one of these, but more like them mixing and bursting.

    Part of what we are doing is like a "set of brakes" to closely examine the stages. It is like if one is able to do the Four Joys, it is not a "plummet", it means the bodhicitta rests in each chakra for a period of time. So when we slow down to get a good look at smoke or mirage, if we have the right internal energy, eventually it would open to the next stage; if not, it will cease.

    Dissolution does not mean seeing a physical aura or an astral or Kama Rupa form. I can see all that in ordinary waking consciousness. Seeing the ordinary forms is a Laukika Siddhi (mundane) similar to astral projection or Mayavi Rupa or Illusory Body. Melting the assembly of Tathagatas is not ordinary waking consciousness.

    It is not quite clear how much tantric inspiration may be Bon, or perhaps Tengri would be a more widespread similar term, but there is something to say that would not be Tibetan, probably originating around Turkestan and Lake Baikal. That seems to be the meaning of Uttara Kuru, Great North Country, which must have been important for Yogacara, since Yajnawalkya is said to have gone there.

    What also seems to come out from Buhnemann's articles is that--in terms of detailed tantric sadhanas--Buddhist Mahacina Tara is likely the origin of Hindu Ugra Tara, like Varuni is probably the origin of Hindu Ananda Bhairavi. That means something like Buddhism did not invent the deities, or powers of nature, which were already recognized by Hindu or Tengri people, but refined and elaborated the practice. In the most blatant terms this does involve blood sacrifice and left-hand symbolism and converting it to Dharma, which is certainly extended by many more esoteric things. In Buddhism, we find some amount of "discovered" deities such as Usnisa, but a large part of it is "converted" Hinduism. After all, one could not suddenly reproduce a geography full of Pithas, the same ones have to be used or shared between traditions.

    So far, with a little review, it is easy to establish certain basic deities with fundamentals, such as Four Arm Sita Tara does Blue Lotus Mudra, Mahattari Tara holds a Flaming Blue Lotus, and Mahacina Krama Arya Tara is Vajra Kartri or Chopper. Many of the authors fail to really ask the questions about practice and inner meaning. I would say each of those is not a theory, incidence, or archaeological legacy, those are all very direct and deep into the heart of spirituality. As art forms, most people can easily say, well, Mahacina is like a blue version of Guhyajnana Dakini, but they are vastly different, one is like Hrim and the chopper cutter of ego, the other is like Hrih and dakinis.

    How, exactly, Ekajati may have been known in the "previous milieu" is near impossible to determine, since again here it appears the name has a specific meaning in Buddhism that could not possibly have this meaning in any other tradition, since it means to hold this shakti is the state of Vajradhara, and one will become a Buddha in the next lifetime. Because this means something other than a Mukti or person liberated into nirvana by other means, it is not possible for Ekajati to be exactly the same, by this name or by a synonym, anywhere else.

    In her large sadhana, Tara of Ekajati Amnaya is really called Vajra Bimba. Although this (male) name applies to Vajrapani in STTS, as female, she is this, and also found in certain limited retinues. The meaning of "Bimba" can be an original orb, such as the sun or moon; a reflection or image of it; and we have also found in Buddhist texts it means the "icon circle", i. e. mandala.

    The main tantric bliss in common-speak is called Sahaja, however, in Buddhism, this is supposed to be a pretty specific thing related to the Four Chakras. But, we do have a minor jumble of technical terms for the Four Joys, as well as the fact that for Buddha and in Kalachakra there are Sixteen, based from Sixteen kinds of voidness.

    So far, we have not counted the ascent of Inner Heat as being part of this. It may certainly be pleasant, but, should not really be counted as the First Joy until it penetrates the ring of Dhyanis and Prajnas and melts the bodhicitta of the head. I am not sure if these older sources are fumbling with the systems, or, if the following is clarifying. The partial Samvarodaya translation is a thesis from 1974 which also refers to Dasgupta who made an early Buddhist tantric book in the English language there.

    So it is slightly unclear to me; there is a correspondence between the Moon and the vowels, which can be taught at a Kriya level, meaning formal or exoteric repetition as a learning device. But then the same thing holds true in the tantric experience or the Lokottara Siddhis, Generation and Completion Stages. And so in the following, we find the unusual term "Utpanna", whereas we are more accustomed to Nispanna for Completion:

    Verse 21 refers to digits of the moon (kala). Dasgupta, without showing his source, makes a very useful suggestion concerning kala ; he mentions the relation between the four kinds of anandas and sixteen kalas as follows : Of the sixteen digits of the moon, the first five represent nanda, up to the tenth is Paramananda, up to the fifteenth is Viramananda and the sixteenth represents Sahajananda. This is exactly applicable here ; the yogini is the sixteenth digit of the moon means that mahasukha-kaya is equivalent to sahajananda. The same situation is mentioned in verse 23 ; her nature is sahajananda means that the nature or essence (svabhava) of mahasukha-kaya is sahajananda. In the abode of truth , mahasukha-kaya is in the form of pleasure. Mahasukha-kaya is the support of buddhas and bodhisattvas, the holder of diamond. She is formed of the four (kinds of) joy in the form of (both) cause and result means that mahasukha-kaya which is itself sahajananda includes all four anandas; the word mahasukha- kaya means mahasukha itself, that is a kind of buddha-kaya. Mahasukha-kaya is the expression of the aspect of supreme joy of the ultimate reality and comparable to the aspect of ananda of Brahman. The first line of verse 22 alludes to Avadhuti; mahasukha-kaya Dasgupta, op. cit. p. 176.2 Dasgupta incoherently reconstructs this passage as follows:

    Inside is the Yogini of sixteen kalas or digits of the moon. op. cit., p. 148.68 is figuratively expressed as Avadhuti. The expression in the conventional truth, she is like a kunda-flower may suggest the same idea; kunda-fiower alludes to bodhicitta (see 8-31). From these discussions, we find that this image of the human body, the theory of the four cakras, offers a well-organized methodology of utpanna-krama, the ascending process which leads to the ultimate reality. In other words, it provides theoretical proof that it is possible to attain enlightenment through the medium of the human body. The relationship between the ultimate reality and the individual existence. In the problems we have already discussed, those of utpatti- krama and utpanna-krama have already been included. In the discussion of the ultimate reality, we have already alluded to the theoretical side of the utpatti-krama. It is the emanation of the phenomenal world from jnana {sarvajnajnana) as the dharmakaya of the buddha, or expressed differently, it is the self-evolution (parinama) of the fundamental consciousness (alaya- vijnana) ; these are mentioned in chapter 4. The practical aspect of the utpatti-krama is the ritual of imagining (chapter 13) or constructing (chapter 17) or taking part in (chapter 8) the mandala. Utpanna-krama actually designates the various practices conducted for the attainment of the ultimate reality.


    I am not sure what he means by "ascending process". If you have rising heat, and then the descent of bodhicitta, you might start looking for a whole bunch of ways to classify it. He misses the important practical point. If one is able to manmifest Four Joys, then, the fourth means the white bodhicitta has entered the fiery navel, which turns it to Cool Mercury or Rasa. This is the point which is supposed to be called Sahaja, and then the additional progression of Joys are all Sahaja. And so in other words, if you mean the ascent of Mercury, yes, this is Sahaja, but there is not much of a way that it could correspond to a sixteenth division as Dasgupta says. And since we can list the sources, such as Naro uses "Ananda" terminology, then it seems Dasgupta may have stretched it out. He says Ananda and others are each five joys, so they are making large blocks of stages, instead of being individual. This may be provisionally accurate, if you mean the five senses for example, but I think he may have taken a Kriya or Yoga explanation and attached it to Completion Stage.

    The continuity of the idea is perhaps the whole set of Sixteen applies to the highest stage that "you" can do, whereas for Buddha it is sixteen fully individual stages.

    As practice, we are probably better assisted by the Four Dakinis Ha Ri Ni Sa or Lama, Khandaroha, Rupini, and Dakini. These seem somewhat malleable and can be Four Chakras, or the crown center, or four petals at the core of the heart, which is going to remain and just become more subtle and more powerful through all the tantras. The Gauris are Asta Vijnana or Eight Consciousnesses, the Tramen are their Objects, I suppose on a mind-only plane, compared to something like Sight Object, which could be physical or transitional.

    The nearness of the Dakinis is that if you have Avalokiteshvara, then Guhyajnana Dakini is really his heart, and she has the dakinis. When considering Nyasa in terms of Pithas of the body, dakinis are nerves or nadis. The Nyasa is a placement or covering, whereby it is typical to array a mantra's syllables onto one's body, which is normally exterior. The Armor Deities are the crucial advancement of this. They have a male-first set, which again is on the surface, and then a female-first set, which is for the chakras, with Amoghasiddhi and Candi taking care of the rest of the branch nerves or "whole surface". Because these are wrathful, it pertains to the reflexive brain consciousness, cooking vrttis off of oneself. After this is the Nyasa that represents the tantric centers and psychic nerves, usually twenty-four.

    Armor Deities are Six Families equivalent to Dakini Jala. It is correct that they have a full sadhana centered on Vajravarahi, and then, she is replicated as the beginning of her own set of Armor Deities. And so this is how all of the Chakrasamvara series works, except for Samvarodaya, which replaces her with Vairocani. And so if Varuni is capable of manifesting them with Varahi, then she must be capable of doing it with Vairocani. The tantra states that Varuni contains Vairocani, and the teaching continues that this produces Varahi, whereas Varuni appears to absorb into Khandaroha. In Nepal, Vajradhara is able to emanate Varuni with Armor Deities. Varuni is not repeated among them, so it is showing six distinct elements. If we think in Samvarodaya terms, the first one is not Varahi but Vairocani, otherwise it is the same:




    At the places of my body on moon mandala cushions are:

    at navel, red OM VAM, Bandhuka Orange Vajravairocani; at heart, blue HAM YOM, Yamini; at throat, white HRIM MOM, Mohani; at forehead, yellow HREM HRIM, Sachalani; at crown, green HUM HUM, Samtrasani; and at all my limbs, grey PHAT PHAT, Chandika.

    The spoken Armor mantra uses two syllables, but the visualized Armor is just the deity's seed syllable (the second) on a moon cushion. Many sadhanas overlook male armor deities and then males completely. They are cast counter-clockwise starting with the red one on the lower right. Therefor the artist has done something strange compared to any version by not using a smoky color.

    So for example the crown is protected by Trasani of Wrathful Jewel Family. Armor Deities appear to use their own names for wrathful prajnas; in this case, Vairocani is with Vajrasattva, which would fuse her to Vajra Gharvi/Vajrasattvatmika/Vajra Ghanta. Marici is Vajrasattva Ishvari. Therefor, Vairocani is the method or path of enlightenment in Gnosis Family, i.e. is the transmutation of the practitioner's mind and inner principles, and Marici is the Full Enlightenment this draws from. Yamini is in Vajra Family, which is the Heruki or Heruka Samnivesa of Dakini Jala. And again, because we are trying to formulate Six Families into a mystical seventh, in Dakini Jala, the Vajrasattva Family Wrathfuls may also be represented by Vajradhara with Samvari (Vimala--Katyayani). And so it is like he does not exist, and is only barely theoretically real until Vajrasattva is something like a fuel one runs on. Such a Vajrasattva is Mudita or the First Bhumi, and Vimala is after that, and yet she is Kumari and Bala Kumari, Sixteen or Sodashi and Nine or Nava Yauvana.

    Many of Varuni's things are similar to those of other deities, but even with Eighteen Arms, she has one face. A shield is unusual. One of her hands has been called Bindu Mudra, dipping and flicking nectar at you, or counting, time, or rhythm. She usually emerges from a fish or is on one. If seated, her knees are elevated and bound by a cloth.

    Although she fosters Khandaroha, she is Mam-arisen because she is Mamaki (Guhyeshvari). Because Guhyeshvari has a universal 1,000 Arm form, this constitutes her Eighteen Arm worshippable form. So it is fully legitimate to pin the whole Dakini Jala on this. Since that is a Secret Doctrine of Vajrayogini, then it is feasible to see Vajrayogini as Ziro Bhusana, which by definition includes Guhyajnana and the Four Dakinis. It may seem like a lot of deities but it is fairly robust according to the teaching. We can compare it to a Guhyeshvari and Varuni manuscript and come very close to the same thing.

    It is even more if following the Apri Hymns by inviting Sarasvati, Ila, and Bhu, one's own Yidam, and Agni, but this is the intent of the whole Samputa tradition of Abhayakaragupta and the Vajravali corpus of sadhanas. Also, the Ila and Bhu earth deity type of Vasudhara bond is the other important precursor to Varahi, and Bhu still being considered a Witness to Final Enlightenment along with Aparajita.

    Varuni is the flow of Amrita from the first successful drop up to unlimited.

    That is why she is the one taste or method and all of the tantric sadhanas are based through her, are being adorned onto this explanatory thangka.

    It uses the Inverted Stupa, which is given in the same format by Thunderbolt Ekajati and the Varahi before Armor Deities.

    That is why it is mainly this that is the detailed Yoga focus in Generation Stage, especially in its first parts, Bindu-Nada, Crescent, and Triangle. This Agni Triangle is the Navel, the Nirmana Chakra or important origin point of dakinis and collected inner fire, which is represented in the sadhana frequently by a red torma triangle with one or more skullcups. The detailed explanation says that one is Varuni's Soma, and two are the tantric meats and nectars. The uncommon explanation may use a fourth skullcup for the blended version, and that this becomes glowing orange and is our heat we seek to thread into the Avadhut.

    If the cups are properly purified, then yes, they should remain as pots of rainbow liquid. They are pretty small but you can find four of them in many of the Yoganirutara mandalas. The heating of the mixture to make it rise can be handled by powerful deities such as Ghasmari, and there is frequently a Rasa or Taste goddess involved in a ritual, who of all people may be Vetali. Although this is internal, it is still a sacred ceremony like a Eucharist or something. And so when working properly, it does cultivate Four Joys, up to the point of establishing Mercury, which has to be purified in a different way, which I did not know. So if you don't purify this, maybe it is something like placing psychic heavy metals into your system, perhaps that is what happened to me.

    So what happens if you do not harness rainbow liquid into the quadrants, I am not sure. The sadhanas are trying to organize and harmonize, which seems to be one of the main points in Four Dakinis mantra, these are natural forces which could be anything from too loud to too quiet. Guhyajnana is like a hostess and conductor, if you are serious about getting her to do it. Come what may, she is still the heart of Karuna--Compassion, the relief of misery wherever found.

    Varuni and nectar can also be seen as a precursor to Bharati, which is that aspect of Vasudhara that has Mahasukha with Jambhala. That is the majority of the "weaving", along with Ganapati and Vira Vajradharma.

    Vairocani can be yellow or white in other sadhanas; here, she has a rare or unique color.

    Bandhuka or Goji-ka:







    Varuni with knees bound:

    Last edited by shaberon; 8th September 2020 at 18:23.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote ...what I expect you mean by rainbow bliss...
    This is the right brightness and mixing. But it doesn't capture how it moves, which is more like this.
    That's a thing, a liquid, that fills me up. The colors on clear body are sort of like if you picture yourself as being light green, and when you have a strong surging feeling it changes your color like a mood ring.

    The diffraction rainbows are more like the rainbow drop that Mandarava shows sometimes. She does it to remind me that everything beautiful to look at is made of colors and colors are made of mist which blows away to nothing in an instant.

    Quote The lightish-green hue however is pervasive, something like a "base", on which other kinds of light begin. I think it is bio-luminescence, since even a rock is considered alive.
    Bioluminescence is actually a great analogy, I'm glad you thought of it. Okay, so think of a jellyfish under ultraviolet light. It's clear, you can see through it, but it has a color and glows.

    Quote In the Signs associated with Dissolution, it has been debated whether the first is Marici--Mirage or Dhuma--Smoke, but, after these, the pattern is pretty specific. In actual use, I think the ordinary person would have tremendous difficulty with Khadyota--Fireflies, while it is probably possible to experience the first one or two of these and just file it as "weird".
    Great pic of the wolf.
    The fireflies isn't actually more complicated, if you thought of someone being down to a few "corners" or edges of glowing light, think of the glow as a set of points, and then think of them flying away in different directions. The hardest part of the dissolve (from my shaking), which I'm not sure is the same as this dissolution, is the feeling of giving up or letting go or whatever it is. Once I can get through that, if I remain cognizant, which is an if, everything about it is too spectacular to worry about what one isn't anymore.

    Quote If the cups are properly purified, then yes, they should remain as pots of rainbow liquid. They are pretty small but you can find four of them in many of the Yoganirutara mandalas. The heating of the mixture to make it rise can be handled by powerful deities such as Ghasmari, and there is frequently a Rasa or Taste goddess involved in a ritual, who of all people may be Vetali. Although this is internal, it is still a sacred ceremony like a Eucharist or something. And so when working properly, it does cultivate Four Joys, up to the point of establishing Mercury, which has to be purified in a different way, which I did not know. So if you don't purify this, maybe it is something like placing psychic heavy metals into your system, perhaps that is what happened to me.
    I have to think about this. It seems to be saying that beyond putting the right things at the Nirmana Chakra, there is a purifying thing that has to be done to make them into the rainbow liquid? In my shaking, I had told you before, and quoted from my notes, there is a cauldron a vessel of creation from which the rainbow liquid is generated. There are liquid blisses (not sure if that's the right plural) that are created, but the liquid expands and fills from a cauldron - lake - ocean (as it gets bigger) that fills, but I do not perceive it as created, it seems very essential and primordial.

    I am currently wrestling with two new identities -- a two-armed female deity who is "seated" in badda-konasana and pulls on something or holds something, it seems like pulling on thread, and another two-armed in tandava dancing position who either has right hand in shuni mudra and left holding something or the shuni mudra may be it is holding something as well.

    If the thread pulling is threading that would predispose towards Marici, but I can't be sure, it feels more like pulling and straightening a thread like that was unraveled from something. The other one I've only seen once so I am scant on details.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote If the thread pulling is threading that would predispose towards Marici, but I can't be sure, it feels more like pulling and straightening a thread like that was unraveled from something.
    What about Kalasiddhi? She spins and weaves and was enjoined by Yeshe Tsogyal that without joining bliss and emptiness, it is senseless. And Kala can mean tongue.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    I have to think about this. It seems to be saying that beyond putting the right things at the Nirmana Chakra, there is a purifying thing that has to be done to make them into the rainbow liquid? In my shaking, I had told you before, and quoted from my notes, there is a cauldron a vessel of creation from which the rainbow liquid is generated. There are liquid blisses (not sure if that's the right plural) that are created, but the liquid expands and fills from a cauldron - lake - ocean (as it gets bigger) that fills, but I do not perceive it as created, it seems very essential and primordial.

    Here I would say the cauldron itself is Bharati and its contents are Varuni. If you have a self-arisen Kurukulla, it would be commensurate you have a self-arisen Bharati. It sounds a lot to me you are at an energetic equivalent of the higher stages of what we are calling Inverted Stupa.

    To be more clear about the liquid, in the first sense, we are talking about meats and nectars, as one's skandhas. The "meats" are to be visualized as skin suits without bones which are stuffed with a ground meat paste of that being., And these are rotated or swirled and mixed which is for the first Nectar. Yes, it is thought of as purifying or non-dualizing the skandhas, which is one and the same act as watching the substances melt in the cups. This is how a person should generate it "with effort". If it is spontaneously present, then you must have the inner meaning of the abandonment of the "accumulations" or skandhas.

    As a Vajrayogini sadhana, I am just talking about Inverted Stupa and the use of Varuni to interface with a Yoga deity. And so then we are talking about purifying the mixture and making it get Orange hot. And so here, I think, is the point in the structured sadhana where notions of visualizations are clearly tied to an unusual and somewhat definable physical condition. That means the progression of the sadhana assumes an "if--then" format. If this phase fairly closely corresponds to Tapas, then it means you are not doing it until you feel some kind of warmth, and you don't extend or add anything else until the Orange glow is palpably real. At that point there is no way you are blindly following some written formula, it forces you to experience it for yourself.

    Then if we think of it as only being somewhat after that phase that the full mandala could be what it is supposed to be, Chakrasamvara has for his inner retinue the Four Heart Dakinis at the cardinal points, and:

    Upon each of the four inter-cardinal petals of this Wheel of Great Bliss appears a golden vase with a white skull-cup resting on its top, with each skull containing various 'nectars' that symbolize the 'four-fold offering' to the sense-goddesses of sight, smell, taste and touch.

    Those "are" more or less a continuation of cups as we are discussing them for Generation Stage, except it has its own instructions. Different traditions may use only one cup for everything, and we are just saying that three cups of the Agni Triangle blended to a fourth is the same amount as in Chakrasamvara. We have an extra cup, compared to most, who do not think of the addition of Varuni.

    Now if we did manage to get our Orange concoction heated and we were successful in the Pranayama, eventually we would melt the White Ham, or Moon, or Shiva's Trident, in fact it occurred to me that it could perhaps be melted by the touch of Ziro Bhusana's Trident to one's own, there are a handful of related symbols used for the white seed, and I guess we would have to say the one used in a particular tantra is correct for that tantra.

    And if we can get that far and stabilize it, I would say the rest of it is in a way less challenging. If you can get it going, then, you probably can increase from the First Joy to Four Joys without that much difficulty. If successful with Four, you would obtain the Mercury. And it is this which is said to be actually dangerous. You have to purge the taste, smell, and "energy" or karma from it, which renders it into the true Nectar called Medicine, Immortality, and Wisdom. And so if the prior stages were largely about Bliss, at this point we have something supported by it.

    That one is the magical agent, or initiation, or enabler of Transference. It is this we might try to surpass the Brahmarandra and enter Sunya above the head. I personally do not have a more sacred concept or any other direction other than it is this that makes of one a Bodhisattva and alert to Buddha's Teaching.

    Padmasambhava consorts such as Kalasiddhi are Nirmanakaya of Vajravarahi. When that happens I stop, or, by contrast to Tara--who is a Yoga deity that I have a samaya to--if something starts to be about the actual, real Varahi--I just kneel and shut up.

    The thread question is interesting and I am not sure if anyone ever questioned Marici's thread. Marici is a Tara, so, I feel somewhat justified in speculating that her Needle, Suci, is the same as Agni of that name, Solar Fire. The only thing that comes to mind that is similar is that Touch Offering Goddess usually carries a piece of silk.

    The thing about Fireflies, in terms of the Dissolutions of Death, to dissolve something here means that you totally lose a piece of reality because a sense is gone. And so your mind or what's left of your body will probably start feeling very wrong, and there are a few descriptions of what that may be like here, but a rough standard is:

    I am on fire.

    That is for an ordinary, unprepared being, and so if you are well prepared, it will be nothing, it will not affect you.

    Or, as you mentioned, "if I remain cognizant". The two main keys for it to be Buddhism is that lucidity is maintained, and it does so without Hindrances. And for example, if I was lucid and I thought it was interesting and how tremendous it was that I am not ordinary and understand Fireflies to be harmless, I might like them, I might form an Attachment. It would look a lot like spiritual progress, but, it would just be a new way of revealing how I sin against Pandara. And then for example we have a situation where I have to prove to the Fireflies I am not going to sin against them in seven ways, not even against Vajradhara, and I cannot even wake up in the morning without doing that, how can I possibly handle it against an abstract tantric Sign?

    That is what I mean about the difficulty in getting the protections and wisdoms from the sadhanas, it would not even be Buddhist just to say I experienced Fireflies in some way, let alone did I fail to clean the Mercury.

    And so, a long time ago, if it seemed important to say "there is such a thing as Ratnasambhava", I can now say that was almost utterly meaningless until now, where I can just go Vajra Surya, even if I do not comprehend it all, it actually does have its own energy with some degree of meaning, some degree of difference from other categories, and a type of feeling. That is what makes it begin to be useful.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    A lot to think about, thanks.

    Quote Padmasambhava consorts such as Kalasiddhi are Nirmanakaya of Vajravarahi. When that happens I stop, or, by contrast to Tara--who is a Yoga deity that I have a samaya to--if something starts to be about the actual, real Varahi--I just kneel and shut up.

    The thread question is interesting and I am not sure if anyone ever questioned Marici's thread. Marici is a Tara, so, I feel somewhat justified in speculating that her Needle, Suci, is the same as Agni of that name, Solar Fire. The only thing that comes to mind that is similar is that Touch Offering Goddess usually carries a piece of silk.
    It was a thought. She (the one who identifies to me) is yellow in color. Kala normally means black, but here is supposed to mean either fluids or essences or something, and Kalasiddhi is supposedly related to Ratnasambhava. What seemed relevant was that what she weaves is male and female -- emptiness and bliss.

    Marici is also yellow. I had just gone looking for threads, you are right, no one talks about Marici's thread, just the needle. Kalasiddhi spins thread during the day and weaves by night, but no talk of her pulling threads out of the weave or straightening them.

    What the new one does is make me "summons". This is a new thing over the last few days, it seems to be the way in which the energy obstacle between the bliss I am capable of generating if every single part of me is doing nothing but working to generate bliss, and what is needed. When I summons, my arms and hands surge and bliss and electricity together begin to flow in slightly cupped palms and then I push it with my hands, it goes into me and makes things of really big energy happen -- last night it was opening the jewel. This has happened spontaneously in "travels" around my body during other shakings, I think I have told you before that inside of it (it's at my throat and is Kurukulla's baby) is interpenetration -- infinities and vast choirs and grottos and vistas and so forth. So last night the summons was surged directly into the root of my tongue, all sorts of stuff sprang into action in my mouth and above and below, I had to be told by the Dakinis to swallow at one point just short of probably choking on the gush of saliva. I then went to a pose, hands out palms forward feet downward, feeling like the standing depiction of a thousand armed being, every bit shaking and completely in dissolve, when the jewel was a combination of the interpenetration infinite space, and a wheel with very light but discernible spokes like the wheel of law.

    The previous thing that was headless was also throatless, this was adding the throat.

    So that's what she does, is push that summons thing. I spent the whole night repeatedly going into that sort-of-thousand-armed state, and sleeping or being various things in the interludes. When I felt like I was in my physical body, I either felt like I was merging with the breeze or everything around me felt wet (and was not physically wet at all).
    Quote Or, as you mentioned, "if I remain cognizant". The two main keys for it to be Buddhism is that lucidity is maintained, and it does so without Hindrances.
    I agree, but the normal thing is to start out lucid and maintain it while trying to enter a state, and for shaking I have to start with entering the state and try to preserve that entering while striving for lucidity. It's like two processes to arrive at "doing not doing" (為無為, wei wuwei), one which starts with doing and tries to move to doing not doing and the other that starts with not doing and tries to work back to doing not doing.

    Quote If successful with Four, you would obtain the Mercury. And it is this which is said to be actually dangerous. You have to purge the taste, smell, and "energy" or karma from it, which renders it into the true Nectar called Medicine, Immortality, and Wisdom.
    [...]
    ...it would not even be Buddhist just to say I experienced Fireflies in some way, let alone did I fail to clean the Mercury.
    Interesting, this notion of Mercury. The Daoists have an expression, Cinnabar Field (丹田 dantian), which means tons of different things, from pill of elixir of immortality to Elysian Fields to the place where energy is generated for doing internal boxing. In it, one is supposed to set up a cauldron and cook an elixir out of cinnabar -- which is mercury ore. I worked on that while working on related things Buddhist (mostly Tummo) before I had started shaking. It's kind of the Neidan (which literally means "inner cinnabar" but is usually "inner elixir" and is usually translated "alchemy") version of cooking the 'short Ah' syllable before sending it up the sushumna to melt the Hum at the heart for blazing and dripping.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    That is powerful.

    I am not familiar with every bit of lore in Buddhism, especially a lot of the revealed bits from Nyingma. So Kalasiddhi is unfamiliar to me. It makes sense that in a Five Varahi pattern, one of them must be Jewel Family. The closest correspondence I can make is that Padmasambhava is in Lotus Family, and it was his associate Vimalamitra who was seen as an equally-powerful transmitter of similar tantra centered on Jewel Family, as is the Guyhagarbha--Book of the Dead, same idea.

    I do not know of other "thread" deity correspondences besides the track of "Picu" deities is based in cotton and weaving, and the historical Bhrkuti used a loom, which is still preserved. The deity Bhrkuti can be yellow but does not usually appear as a dakini or display sewing implements. And so in all these cases, what can be said is they are all "obscured", the concept of Jewel Family tantra is basically unpublished, and the Indian idea of Bhrkuti seems to have little in common with the Tibetan version which features her angry scowl. She is peaceful, an agent of Lotus Family, and seems to be a bit more important than I originally gave her credit for. Usually, yellow is a "likely" appearance of Jewel Family, but none of that is a 100% rule, since there is a Yellow Bhrkuti, or a Yellow Janguli in Vajra Family. These are probably cross-currents, like if we take a major occult definition to be "Earth Element is Yellow", we would eventually get to "Earth of Water" and the other sub-divisions which may change it.

    Yellow Vairocani "is" Varahi, except there is no pig feature, I think this is the last preliminary or thing we seek to "self-arise", before the ability to do a real, full mandala, or effective Chakrasamvara rite. This full or upgraded Yellow is an ingredient for Orange, which is obscure, but mostly part of Long Life and Nectar practice.

    I am not sure that Kagyu strictly follows the pattern of Sakya's Three Reds, but it is close. And so, for whatever reason, Red Vajrayogini is the most well-known or considered the main form of her. And then in most depictions, we will find that the "energetic increases", i. e. the drinking Naro Dakini and the flying Maitri dakini, are at the top. Vajrayogini however fails to make a Five Family Pattern most of the time--she has a Yellow Vairocani, Green Pranava, and Blue Krodha Kali, but White is suppressed off most of the images:










    Maybe it is because Vairocani can be White or Yellow, but the White form has no existence apart from Union with White Heruka. Yellow Vairocani Vajrayogini has a basic form:






    which is not noticeable except for her color. The other form is a unique Kurma Padi (Tortoise Pose) who has begun to drink:






    Taranatha 36 subtitles her as Lady of the Wheeld, Khorlo dBang Phyugma, and says she is Hrih-arisen. Tibetan Deities 85 says Vam and adds a Dharmodaya at her navel marked with Vam. Neither one says she is drinking. The trampled Bhairava is supposed to be black. There is a Kurmacakra which is a mandala used to determine if a place is auspicious, and a Kurmanadi at the heart, but I am not sure about this standing position which is not Kurmasana.

    It may also refer to Kurma avatar, which is prior to Vamana, prior to Varaha, or even Kasyapa as "Tortoise".

    Those are the only ways I know of that Vairocani exists, until she is folded into Varahi and Cinnamasta.

    I would tend to guess Tortoise stance is like what we call the Crescent.

    It is part of why, so far, Yellow is the most important occult color. Again, it has taken over the earth plane or element as the Nirmana Chakra, which makes no sense materially, only Noumenally. Then Yellow, or, luminous gold, becomes the most important color on Buddha, or Sita, or Lakshmi, and attaches to the mysterious existence of Mercury, also as the One Initiator, Dragon Tree, Nagarjuna, Avadhut, and so on.

    It is not an earthly yellow, since the root derivation of color is "to conceal", and the occult colors are like a right-angle view of ordinary colors which opens or unveils them, which seems to me usually begins with an all-around pale yellowish-greenish glow, which is not quite this exalted display of Yellow--fiery gold, but is a sign or basis in approaching it.

    "Feels wet" sounds a bit like Earth dissolving into Water, and so it is likely you are being "held" at this point until you muster every tiny little atomic aspect of it. Again, this does not mean you will not glimpse peaks or highlights of additional stages, but, as a whole, "you will not pass" until the first one is perfectly plain.

    You will probably be better off than me, it is like I was given the keys to a dragster, but have difficulty in bringing an ordinary car to the racetrack.

    The Cinnabar is probably a type of corollary code showing that Mercury is bound inside something, and is to be extracted and purified. So I think it is very close. It is the most subtle physiological thing that I will swear under oath is real, it is not like inner heat nor melted white bodhicitta, and is the bridge to the voids beyond the head. All of the scriptures on full enlightenment explain it as the control and infinitizing of this. That is why I say there is a better way to do it than the mostly self-arisen way as I have experienced.

    In Buddhism, the pots of sacrificial offerings are a fundamental mainstay. They are not the Swastika which is on the forehead, but, when Dakini is divested of most of her other symbolism, the pots remain:










    That type of swirling energy is also the bindu at the center of a Wheel of Law (as on the flag of Sikkim) or a Vajra. It is, of course, similar to the Korean or Taiji or unfolding of eight combinations as shown in that system.

    So if we do Inverted Stupa, we get a Yellow Square at the top, which eventually merges into the same which is the base of a deity's stupa. This, I think, is almost exactly what the European alchemy is saying when the cross over the orb of kings merges with the cross pendant from the Venus ankh or mirror. So it is almost a universal criteria of man's spirituality or divinity.

    It is Rasa, which is also Taste and Tongue, so if a deity's tongue is activated by extending or flicking, it may cast lightning, but it also has to do with this. The mental Rasa is of course a huge barrier of attachment, we are usually like puppies who cannot restrain our tastes, craving the next one. And since this actually turns out to be a main characteristic of Vetali, who is a Corpse, then it is like you have to become totally dead to something in order to enjoy the emergence of its opposite.

    I am not sure of a better word than "summons" for the hands-electricity turning to erase subtle obstacles. I would like to find one, since, technically, summons is Akarsaya or Hook, used to bring a deity from Void. Noose is to keep it or them assembled and interested. And it sounds to me that you have achieved both of these in some self-arisen way. It is even beyond what we might call "Marici clearing Inner Obstacles", since those are mostly comprehensible bundles of mental and emotional afflictions, and you are only working against something subtle, almost as if against the karmic seeds or winds. That is like even if I mentally forget my taste for something good, like orange juice, the habit pattern of me drinking it still sits there in the subconscious. And so that is like a seed, which will make winds move in my branch nerves, which would pull me away from being able to remain in void. It isn't even anything bad, it is just a subtle type of duality, which is the sin against Vajradhara.

    Perhaps that is more like the Cemetery meditations, which are mainly to prevent wind from slipping into the branches or out the doors. And so there, for instance, you have a given cemetery related to Taste, and would "burn it out" in that environment. In tantric terms, it would reveal or strengthen a Gauri, and in practical terms, would be an operation related to a given Naga, Yaksha, and Cloud. These are barriers to the Tree, which is the Avadhut, as related to the obstruction or assistance provided in this particular sphere. Once you satisfy that Yaksha, there is nothing left here.

    Six of these are the Six Vijnana expressed by the Six Yoginis (Armor Deities), the Seventh is that of Vajradhara, and the last of all eight or Asta Vijnana is that of the Alaya, or, we might say, "Future State". Many schools state the eighth is a part of you or belongs to you, whereas at least some of the older Indian Yogacara states that this is not part of man's individual organism, it is not "in you" the way the Gauris are the senses themselves. You cannot affect the Alaya. You only change the way you handle it, via the Three Natures, which in simple terms, one changes the Parikalpita or Imaginary by non-dualiztion, so there is no mentality which is different from or not accurate to nature or reality, and that the Paratantra or other-dependent nature is no longer subject to the Nidanas or cause of rebirth or links of dependent arising. Then the Paramartha or Parinispanna is open, becomes lucid, and so forth--then even the Third or Black Void is unable to interfere with one's perception of Prabhasvara or the Absolute Object in the Cosmic or Maha Sunya or Para Sunya.

    There is definitely Rainbow Light involved, which is of Sambhogakaya nature. Orange elixir is mainly for Generation, and cool Mercury is mainly for Completion. And so Rainbow Body must be a bit like the mass amount of splooshing colors you are getting, but more organized. It sounds pretty close, just looking for the master strokes, finishing touches. Some of the Nyingma do consider this the most important practice, I suppose in the sense of more achievable for more people, but in Shentong, I think we are saying it is an important basis for the Jewel of the Doctrine, which is like a swirling bliss bindu at the center of Catuskoti, which would mean four kinds of emptiness, or sixteen if you squared it.
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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Well in the subject of fabric, it turns out there is something else which I was not exactly aware of. It took me a while to figure out that two different words might be used for Fence, and that Panjara is called Canopy, and so there is something else which is in between, which we will see now.

    Actually it is the literal answer to the question of cloth and lightning according to Manjushri.

    Arthur Avalon's presentation of Chakrasamvara has somehow managed to split Khandaroha into the Axis deities, and, it will make clear that there is a persistent mandala asset called sometimes a Canopy which is really a Curtain with Fringes:


    Then from the Bija Mantra Hum which lies in the heart
    emanate ten female Devatas (Dakin1) who are the keepers
    of the doors. There are eight of them in the eight
    points of the compass and Khanda and Roha are above
    (zenith) and below (nadir). They are on the east, south,
    west, north, and then south-east, south-west, north-east,
    and north-west. Then repeat a syllable (Pada) of the
    Mantra of the four-faced Devata and as each Pada is
    repeated make a snapping noise with the finger and
    thumb of the left hand. By these means let him think
    that he has expelled all mischievous Spirits. Then on a


    (I) Rigs-kyi-bu. Sanskrit Kula putra. (2) Of the Mandala.

    flood of light issuing from the "Hum" in the heart
    proceed by stages to make the Vajra-bhumi (ground) ;
    next the wall, ceiling, ceiling curtain with fringes, and
    net-work of arrows 1 and outside all a fence of divine
    flames. He should commence this work from within and
    proceed outward in their order.

    Then form the fingers of the left hand into the
    threatening Mudra 2 and point it at the ten directions,
    making the snapping noise abovementioned, repeating
    solemnly the following Mantras thrice :

    (Foundation) Orn medini-vajra bhava vajra-bandhana hum hum phat.

    3 (Wall) Om Vajra-prakara Hum Vam Hun.

    4 (Ceiling) Orn Vajra-panjara Hum Yam Hum.

    5 (Cloth) Orn Vajra vitana Hum Kham Hum.&


    (Network) Orn Vajra-sharajaIa Tram Sham Tram.

    7 (Firefence) Orn Vajra-jvalanalarka Hum Ram Hum



    So there is a type of cloth curtain called Vitana. Prakara or Fence is sometimes called Rekhe which in Agni Homa is also a "colored line" such as Yellow Bhu Devi and so on.

    Then we can find a reference to her pseudonym:

    Vitāna (वितान) means “curtain” which is the symbol of Vitānadharā, another name for Paṭadhāriṇī: one of the four “Door Goddesses”, as commonly depicted in Buddhist Iconography, and mentioned in the 11th-century Niṣpannayogāvalī of Mahāpaṇḍita Abhayākara.—Her Colour is blue; her Symbol is the curtain; she has two arms.—The fourth and the last goddess in the series of four deities of the door is called by the name of Paṭadhāriṇī [...] A statuette of this goddess occurs in China under the title of Vitānadharā where vitāna means a curtain.


    Much like the Parasol in an artistic mandala is a tantric asset in a real one, this additional Curtain also has a background in a layer of deities after Musicians, but before Tramen and the Four Dakinis and Paramitas. I have seen these and not understood them because they are not Gatekeepers, and I am not sure how Door is being used in some sense different than the mandala gates. It is going to be followed by Light, which culminates in something we found a few days ago to indicate "All-pervasive electricity".


    FOUR DOOR GODDESSES


    The door is an important item in household furniture, because of its power of giving protection against thieves and animals and unpleasant intruders. The door planks, the lock, the key, and the curtain, all the four are important

    articles, and thus these are all deified in Vajrayana. They are given human form, colour, faces, arms and symbols. They are found described in the Pancadaka Mandala of the Nispannayogavall. Collectively they are described as nude,

    dancing in Pratyalidha, with fearful appearance, and awe-inspiring ornaments. They are described below in the same order in which they are treated in the Mandala. They hold their special symbols appropriate to their names,



    1. TALIKA



    Colour White Arms Two

    Symbol Lock

    The first in the list of door goddesses, is Talika. Her form is des- cribed as follows :

    "Talika sita talikahasta" NSP, p. 77

    "Talika is white in colour and holds in her two hands the Talika or the Lock."

    A statuette of this most obscure but interesting deity is found in the Chinese collection. In this collection her name is somewhat differ- ently stated as Dvaratalakadhara '. Fig. 211 illustrates her statuette in China.



    2. KUNCI



    Colour Yellow Arms Two

    Symbol Keys

    The second goddess in this series is called Kunci from the keys that she holds. Her form is described as under :

    "Kunci pita kuncikahasta", NSP, p. 77

    "Kunci is yellow in colour and holds the Keys in her two hands/'

    A statuette of this goddess occurs in the Chinese collection under the title Kuncikadhara. She is of the same description as above L '.



    3. KAPATA



    Colour Red Arms Two

    Symbol Planks

    The third deity in the series of the four door goddesses is called Kapata. Her form is described as follows :

    'Kapata rakta kapatadhara". NSP, p. 77
    'Kapata is of red colour and holds in her two hands the Door Planks. 1 '
    A statuette of this goddess is found in the Chinese collection under the title of Dvaradhara. The two are identical ] . Fig, 212 illustrates her statuette found at Peiping.



    4. PATADHARINl



    Colour Blue Arms Two

    Symbol Curtain

    The fourth and the last goddess in the series of four deities of the door is called by the name of Patadharini. Her form is described in the Pancadaka Mandala as under :

    "Patadharini krsna karabhyarh kandapatam vibhrati."


    "Patadharini is blue in colour. She holds in her two hands the curtain (Kandapata) .

    A statuette of this goddess occurs in China under the title of Vitanadhara where Vitana means a curtain. The two are identical J .



    X. FOUR LIGHT GODDESSES

    There are four goddesses of Light in the Vajrayana pantheon. They are named as Suryahasta, Dlpa, Ratnolka and Taditkara and described in the Pancadaka Mandala of the Nispannayogavall. Collectively, they are conceived as nude, and as

    violent in appearance with garland of skulls and severed heads. They dance on a corpse in the Pratyalidha attitude and hold their special marks of recognition in their hands. They are described below in the order in which they appear in

    the Pancadaka Mandala.



    1. SURYAHASTA


    Colour White Arms Two

    Symbol Sun

    Suryahasta is the first deity in the series of four goddesses of Light and her form is described in the following words :

    "Suryahasta sita suryamandaladhara". NSP, p. 76

    Suryahasta is of white colour and she holds in her hands the disc of the Sun".

    One statuette of the goddess is found in the Chinese collection under the tide of Suryadhara. The two are identical l .



    2. DIPA



    Colour Blue Arms Two

    Symbol Light stick

    The second Light deity is called Dipa. Her form is described as under: "Dipa nila dipayastidhara."' NSP, p. 76

    "Dipa is blue in colour and holds in her hands the light stick". A statuette of this goddess occurs in the Chinese collection. 2 . This Chinese statuette is illustrated in Fig. 213,



    3. RATNOLKA



    Colour Yellow Arms two

    Symbol Jewel

    The third in the series of four goddesses of Light is called Ratnolka. She is described as under :

    "Ratnolka pita ratnadhara". NSP, p* 76

    "Ratnolka is yellow in colour and holds the jewel in her hands*'.

    She is represented in the Chinese collection under the name of Ulkadhara. This statuette is illustrated in Fig. 214-



    4. TADITKARA



    Colour Green Arms Two

    Symbol Lightening

    The fourth and the last in the series of four goddesses of Light is called Taditkara (Lightening Bearer). Her form is described in the following words :

    'Taditkara harita vidyullatadhara". __

    'Taditkara is green in colour and holds in her hands the creeper- like lightening.

    A statuette of this goddess occurs in the Chinese collection under the title of Vidyuddhara. The image answers the description in all details The two are therefore identical ! .



    Pata is a cloth, veil, etc., which is Kandapata or outer covering of a tent as kanda, stem, and pata, cloth covering. It is a bit unusual that the Pata held by Patadharini is re-iterated as Kandapata. In Buddhism and Saktism, Kanda is mostly equivalent to Khanda, which is a growth stem, or:

    Kanda (कन्द, “bulb”) is explained in terms of kuṇḍalinīyoga by Lakṣmaṇadeśika in his 11th-century Śaradātilaka.—The body is described, starting from the “bulb” (kanda), the place in which the subtle channels (nāḍī) originate, located between anus and penis (28–9). The three principal channels are iḍā (left), piṅgalā (right) and suṣumṇā (in the centre of the spine and the head). Inside the suṣumṇā is citrā, a channel connecting to the place on the top of the skull called the brahmarandhra (30–4).

    Note: The kanda (“bulbous root”, especially of a lotus), more specifically known as the kandayoni elsewhere, is a structure named after its shape, above which the kuṇḍalinī rests and from which the nāḍīs emerge.

    Which is why Khandaroha has to do with Generation Stage, i. e. the growth of this budding part.

    As far as this Door is concerned, its final component is not even the Door, itself, but the Curtain over it. Then, for some reason, you get Light, as in the Sun, which somehow evolves to Lata or hand-held lightning similar to a creeper plant such as Kusmanda or a vine. This is to the tune of a standard Dharani, Ratnolka, who appears to be Fox Face or Meteor Face or Dhvajagrakeyura in a simple form. Obviously, you can be Green and in Ratna Family, color is not always a "uniform".

    Tadit Kara implies "the hand/maker/doer" of Tadit, less like "dhara" or "hasta", bearing or holding, where again she is reiterated as holding Vidyullata.


    Edit: with a little review, I am mistaken, I thought these were part of DDV Manjughosha, but, it is from Pancha Daka, which is part of Hevajra. This is a fairly simple scheme where each Dhyani has a unique type of court, similar to Dakini Jala. Parts of these are recognizable, some are not, if we were not told "Door Goddesses" we would have no clue, but it usually looks like a first set that is characteristic to that Family, with a second set that is transferrable or universal:

    Vajra Daka: Eight Gauris

    Buddha Daka: Sadamsa, Pasini, Vagura, Ankusi, with Four Offering Goddesses, Puspa, Dipa, Dhupa, Gandha

    Ratna Daka: Four Light Goddesses, Suryahasta, Dipa, Ratnolka, and Taditkara with Four Dance Goddesses, Lasya, Mala, Gita, Nrtya

    Padma Daka: Padma, Dharmodaya, Sphota, Svalesa, with Four Musicians, Vamsa, Vina, Mukunda, Muruja

    Viswa Daka: Four Door Goddesses, Talika, Kunci, Kapata, Patadharini, with Four Prajnas, Locana, Makaki, Pandara, Tara


    Again, similar methodology, Vajradaka defaults to the center, but any of them may be the lord of the rite. And so even if I do not know specifically what Ratna Daka is doing in Hevajra Tantra, he must be of a similar nature as used elsewhere, which corresponds to the Sun and Light, shown here with a goddess holding the sun, a second Dipa or Lamp who is not part of the Offerings, and one who holds lightning.

    Although hers is understood as something like ball lightning, the root is tad (to strike) iti (into the ground). She is said to be allowed the name Vidyuddhara, which has a rare male Hindu correspondence in the story of Nahusa, along with Asoka Sundari, which almost seems like a synonym of Marici. In the story, they are simply a Kinnara and a magic-born daughter, not major characters.

    Even if one tried to reverse the interpretation by saying, tadit must mean a strike, this would be clearly eradicated by having said her lightning is attached to her hands like a creeper vine.

    In the Pancha Daka retinues, if we see Buddha Family is characterized by Ankusi and Padma by Sphota, it suggests the "Light" ring is characterized by Pasi--Noose and the "Door" ring by Ghanta--Bell, although not ostensibly named or displayed. Without a major commentary, it is hard to be sure, but this would be consistent with the pattern.

    It is no surprise to find Ratna filed with Light, but, it is weird to find Viswa or Karma Family marked by a Door, and one whose final touch is the Curtains at that.

    Tibetan Deities has many good details, but it is atrocious for not providing retinues. Pancha Daka 465 says the Vajra Daka is equal to Hevajra, and that, in the Ngor version, it may use the older names such as Vajra Surya and Paramasva, and that Mamaki is the principal's consort, which relegates Ratna's to Ratna Tara. Six Monarchs 482, which corresponds to Dakini Jala, is less informative, not giving any Ratna retinue other than saying the thing arises from Aditya--Sun. So we still lack the "individual" retinues for most of these, and can neither confirm nor deny the presence of lightning without them.

    NSP 25 is Six Monarchs, centered on Vajrasattva--Jnana Daka, whose consort is variously Jnana Dakini, Dharmadhatu Ishvari, Vajradhatvishvari, or Vajravarahi. His court is the Four Dakinis followed by Khandakapala, Mahakankala, Vikata, and Damstrin as Gatekeepers. The rest of it is a specific version where each Daka has as his Gatekeepers the couples who are the Twenty-four Pithas of Chakrasamvara. Tibetan Deities at least clearly says that Six Monarchs is "malleable", anyone can take the center, they can use simpler or more complex forms, and it is really the mantra which is consistent which is Dakini Jala Sambara. So the original or full Dakini Jala format would use a larger Vajrasattva mandala, such as Samputa, and then Vajra Daka would have as his special ring the Gauris or Vajraraudris, so these are the primary formats of Peaceful and Wrathful. Besides these two, I do not think we have a source for the special retinues of the other four families, aside from knowing the principals as the older Sanskrit names Paramasva, etc.

    Uma appears by name in NSP's Bhutadamara mandala.

    The Door and Light goddesses did not belong to Manjushri. Sometimes Mañjuśrī is accompanied only by Yamāri, sometimes only by his Śakti or female counterpart, sometimes by Sudhanakumāra and Yamāri and sometimes again by the four divinities, Jālinīprabha (also called Sūryaprabha), Candraprabha, Keśinī and Upakeśinī. Though the last four are required to be present with Arapacana, they are nevertheless found in others also. There are five messengers of Manjusri: 1. Kesini 2. Upakesini 3. Citra 4. Vasumati 5. Akarsani

    I was a bit confused, since he does have forms of Light, but Kesini at its simplest begins as "woman with a beautiful braid of hair", and who that may be, begins in the league of Tilottama, and continues as someone who Asura Vairocana failed to marry.

    In tracing Vairocani, I am also a bit blurry if she is the sister of "this" Vairocana, or the sister of his son, male Vairocani. I think it would just amount to a different generation in her line of descent without otherwise changing much. The major Puranas are difficult enough to say whether the very famous Tvastr "is" Viswakarman. We can be reasonably confident there is a significance of "Samjna, daughter of Samjna", "Varuni, daughter of Varuni", and Marici, similar to Savitri, a daughter nature to the sun itself. The name Vairocani already implies "daughter of brightness", in such a way that is not Surya's offspring.

    The seventh Namasangiti mandala is outright lacking in any type of Dakini or Gauri presentation, and, simplified, it appears to have a different sort of identity.

    DDV Manjughosha has for his close ring, the Usnisas, with Dhyanis, Prajnas, and Gatekeepers, his second ring is the 4 x 12 system of Bhumis, Paramitas, etc., whose Gatekeepers are the Pratisamvits (Dharma, Artha, Nirukti, Pratibhana) with Dancers.

    The third circle is Bodhisattvas, Wrathfuls, and Offerings.

    Fourth is Hindu direction deities.

    Outside of that is a large congregation of Hindu deities, Shaktis, Planets, Balabhadras, Serpents, Asuras, Yakshas with Hariti, and the Lunar Mansions or Naksatras.

    So Manjughosha is arguably similar to Sarvadurgati, it is a massive Hindu portal, simply placing them subordinate to the Buddhist Usnisas, and a few of the more common Buddhist features, his only unique aspect really being the Paramita system, which is gated by forces that are almost purely academic, who refer to learning and analyzing subjects.

    Lacking dakinis, etc., he would not appear very tantric or talking about the subtle body. However, asterisms such as the Lunar Mansions are the Dharmakaya itself. And so if he starts by emitting Usnisa deities, then he perhaps is also a ninth Usnisa at the center of a sequence involving Parasol:

    1. Mahosn!sa
    2. Sitatapatra Usnisa
    3. TejoraSi Usnlsa
    4. VijayosnIsa
    5. Vikirana Usrisa
    6. Udgata Usnisa
    7. Mahodgata Usnisa
    8. Ojas Usnisa

    Manjushri can interface with Parasol who is part of the Adi Prajna; his female half is Sarasvati who becomes Vetali; and he is directly initiated by Guhyeshvari, the overarching Adi Prajna, into Chakrasamvara or Vajrayogini tantra.

    The absent aspect of Adi Prajna is Vasudhara, which is why in Nepal it is said that Manjushri and Vasudhara are the outer deities of the secretive tantric initiatory lineages.

    Having said Mahosnisa, this becomes entangled with Underworld deities, as half of the Puranic evolution resides in the Talas, along with forms of lightning and the ultimate power of Sesa, which is Infinite Time.

    We take it to be related to Wrathful Deities, and that one aspect of Varuni is Sesa Shakti. Compared to the Worlds, or Lokas, the Talas appear to be a mirrored reflection, similarly to how brain consciousness is a bad reflection of luminous bodhi mind or bodhicitta of the heart.

    The relationship to this Underworld has one angle as Avalokiteshvara--Karuna preventing souls from falling under its influence, but, secondly, this is not really by denying or destroying its "sphere of existence", but something more like gaining command of it by purifying it. Then one can arise in Tala two or five or wherever, remain unaffected, and start finding the right Dharma Speech which will assist others who were not so protected.

    Manjushri may functionally be a ninth usnisa, as in Sarvadurgati, apparently it also gives eight:

    1. Vajronlsa East
    2. Ratnosnisia South
    3. Padmosnisa West
    4. Visvosnlsa North
    5. Tejosnisa Agni
    6. Dhvajosnisa Nairta
    7. Tiksnosnisa Vayu
    8. Chhatrosnisa Isana

    which is called Navosinisa, nine, implying the central (Buddha in this case) is an Usnisa.

    This second set is male, with "Chhatra" meaning Parasol. In usage, female Parasol and Vijaya are some of the most important deities, a couple other females recorded as dharanis, and otherwise they are relatively unknown, compared to what we can say about the crown itself.

    Uṣṇīṣa (उष्णीष, “crown”) refers to the “cranial protuberance”, from which the Buddha emitted numerous rays when he smiled with his whole body after contemplating the entire universe, according to the 2nd century Mahāprajñāpāramitāśāstra (chapter XIV).—Accordingly, having himself arranged the lion-seat, the Bhagavat sat down cross-legged; holding his body upright and fixing his attention, he entered into the samādhirājasamādhi. Then, having tranquilly come out of this samādhi and having contemplated the entire universe with his divine eye (divyacakṣus), the Bhagavat smiled with his whole body. Wheels with a thousand spokes imprinted on the soles of his feet (pādatala) shoot out six hundred prabhedakoṭi of rays. In the same way, beams of six hundred prabhedakoṭi of rays are emitted from his uṣṇīṣa.

    After emission, the rays (raśmi) might return to the uṣṇīṣa (cranial protuberance), according to Mahāprajñāpāramitāśāstra (chapter XIV). According to the Avadānaśataka and Divyāvadāna, it is a custom that, at the moment when the Buddha Bhagavats show their smile, blue, yellow, red and white rays flash out of the Bhagavat’s mouth, some of which go up and some of which go down. Those that go down penetrate into the hells (naraka); those that go up penetrate to the gods from the Cāturmahārājikas up to the Akaniṣṭas. Having travelled through the trisāhasramahāsāhasralokadhātu, the rays return to the Bhagavat from behind. According as to whether the Buddha wishes to show such-and-such a thing, the rays return to him by a different part of the body.

    The returning of the rays into the uṣṇīṣa of the Buddha predicts the anuttara-samyaksaṃbodhi of the Buddhas.
    Last edited by shaberon; 11th September 2020 at 18:41.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote ...which is not noticeable except for her color.
    (Yellow Vairocani Vajrayogini) it is also noticeable because she oddly isn't standing on anyone.

    Quote "Feels wet" sounds a bit like Earth dissolving into Water, and so it is likely you are being "held" at this point until you muster every tiny little atomic aspect of it. Again, this does not mean you will not glimpse peaks or highlights of additional stages, but, as a whole, "you will not pass" until the first one is perfectly plain.
    I had a far less spectacular encounter with this last night. A summoning thing again but very less powerful, still, when it was over there was the same wetness, this time on my face. As with the "wet bedclothes" the night before that weren't actually wet, there was nothing wet on my face at all, not even my eyes watering.

    Quote That type of swirling energy is also the bindu at the center of a Wheel of Law (as on the flag of Sikkim) or a Vajra. It is, of course, similar to the Korean or Taiji or unfolding of eight combinations as shown in that system.
    The wheel that emanated in my shaking looked more like Ashoka's wheel of law, the one on the Indian flag (which has I think 32 spokes).

    Quote I am not sure of a better word than "summons" for the hands-electricity turning to erase subtle obstacles. I would like to find one, since, technically, summons is Akarsaya or Hook, used to bring a deity from Void. Noose is to keep it or them assembled and interested.
    That one was a term they used, not me, except they used it in verb form, telling me to "summon". I didn't know how to create a plural of it, it' like a command word, if I just use it the way they did, then if I did it four times I would do "four summons".

    Quote There is definitely Rainbow Light involved, which is of Sambhogakaya nature. Orange elixir is mainly for Generation, and cool Mercury is mainly for Completion. And so Rainbow Body must be a bit like the mass amount of splooshing colors you are getting, but more organized. It sounds pretty close, just looking for the master strokes, finishing touches. Some of the Nyingma do consider this the most important practice, I suppose in the sense of more achievable for more people, but in Shentong, I think we are saying it is an important basis for the Jewel of the Doctrine, which is like a swirling bliss bindu at the center of Catuskoti, which would mean four kinds of emptiness, or sixteen if you squared it.
    I could understand more organized, mine seems to need the surround of lightning (not usually considered the most organized of things) to have form.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote 'Taditkara is green in colour and holds in her hands the creeper- like lightening.
    This is the way the lightning appears in my hands when I summon, except my hands are not green for this, more purple (which as you I think have noted before is the absence of green).

    Quote "Patadharini is blue in colour. She holds in her two hands the curtain (Kandapata) .
    I had been all through weaving and spinning, hadn't thought of curtains. I did think of webs. There is an example of interpenetration given on the Nichiren sites supposedly from Tiantai Buddhism and to there maybe from Hua Yen, of pulling a single cord in Indras net makes the whole net move. When I read it I wondered if they were cords. Sometimes they seem more like spaghetti or like worms. She's definitely pulling them from something and smoothing them before dropping them in her lap.

    Edited:
    Just wanted to slip this in, I looked up words that sound identical to 'summon' in a few languages, here is what I got:
    saman Sanskrit equal, simultaneous
    saman Bengali equal, all in one to
    sa man Chinese shaman
    Last edited by Old Student; 12th September 2020 at 03:52.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    ...which is not noticeable except for her color.

    (Yellow Vairocani Vajrayogini) it is also noticeable because she oddly isn't standing on anyone.
    Perhaps. I have tried to figure it out. Tibetan Deities translates all of the inscriptions on those plates. That one is Vairocani, and the green one before her was Varnani.

    Now first I will say it is the Book of Nagaraja.

    There is an opening sequence of Taras, and many sages or Mahasiddhas, and it culminates on Nagaraja being revered by Manjushri, Avalokiteshvara, Maitreya, and Varana Niskambin. Then it kicks into Guhyasamaja and shows all the tantric deities such as these. In fact it starts with Guhyasamaja Manjuvajra.

    There is a similar solo Yellow showing a Wheel that is Cinnamasta.

    After Manjuvajra, it soon moves to Armor Deities using Dakini Jala names, or, what it calls Armor Vajrasattva, Armor Vairocana, Armor Black Heruka, Armor Padmanarttesvara, Armor Vajrasurya, and Armor Paramasva. White Vajrasattva has six arms, the rest of them are four armed drummers. These are followed by Varahi, Yamini, etc., the more well-known Armor goddesses, more four armed drummers.

    One can start on the Nagaraja plate and click next item and it will soon be apparent.

    The book is considered printed after 1810 and so far no one has pointed out that the inscriptions use Dakini Jala names and that Paramasva is assuredly not Hayagriva.

    I already knew how Nagaraja works through Manjuvajra and what the Armor is, in relation to the fact it is nested with Seven Syllable deity and its relations. I did not know that was how these illustrations ran. Makes perfect sense to me.

    However it means the pictures do not one-to-one match the sadhanas, and so although there is a picture of Vairocani as a retinue member, the only sadhana specifically limited to her appears to be Kurmapadi.

    In the league of Tilottama happens to be another Apsara named Vidyutparna, but of her, nothing much is said. It cross-references to Vidyudvarna.

    In the sadhanas, if we portray Bharati as basically the Grail, here is why. She starts as Sukha Bharati and has interesting frolics with Jambhala. But she is in transit to becoming Maha Sukha Bharati, and entering the top tier of the Sakya Three Great Reds. She does so as:

    increaser of bliss (bde ba rgyas byed ma, sukhavardhana)

    entering Union with Takkiraja, who is the Krodha or Wrathful from the Agni corner.

    In the vajrahūṃkāra-maṇḍala his name is Vajrayakṣa. In the dharmadhātuvagīśvara-maṇḍala he is Vajrajvālānalārka.


    Takkiraja is of the nature of Kama Raja. And his sadhana is almost the beginning (fifth) in Rinjung Gyatsa. It has the first long-ish dharani, which, near the end, says "puja agni". This plus extracting him from Agni corner are probably not a mistake.

    When Red, he is an Amitabha deity, and the practice is equivalent to Sukhavati. This is the next easiest Akanistha to enter after Tara's Forest of Turquoise Leaves.

    Saman is a foundation of Lotus Family and would even indicate Sama Veda. Equilibrium through mantra, something like that, it sounds a lot like Dharma Speech.

    I had not thought of Curtains either, I thought some of those things were misprints or something. Bhattacharya is weird because he suddenly slips in two groups which are really explanatory of Hevajra Tantra. I am not sure why it overlooks Vajrasattva and uses its Pancha Daka format. I see nothing awkward in naming him Jnana Daka along with the others. It was a little awkward when the Curtains came out of the Curtains, they for some reason appeared to me, called Vitana usually, although her held item at least is called Kandapata.

    The Curtains stand out from the background because they are in the Amoghasiddhi position in the Amoghasiddhi court.

    Lightning is in the Amoghasiddhi position of the Ratna court.

    Even if we do not know what all of them are, each of those is some kind of a cycle to the relevant wind or wisdom, Curtains being the final.

    It could be that this Pancha Daka is the system to make that mandala asset which I suppose is not talked about much. If I have made a point to say, Sukla Tara is the same as Fence, and all of these things are not just pictures but stages, and there is no other explanation of Vitana, maybe so.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote In the sadhanas, if we portray Bharati as basically the Grail, here is why. She starts as Sukha Bharati and has interesting frolics with Jambhala. But she is in transit to becoming Maha Sukha Bharati, and entering the top tier of the Sakya Three Great Reds. She does so as:

    increaser of bliss (bde ba rgyas byed ma, sukhavardhana)

    entering Union with Takkiraja, who is the Krodha or Wrathful from the Agni corner.

    In the vajrahūṃkāra-maṇḍala his name is Vajrayakṣa. In the dharmadhātuvagīśvara-maṇḍala he is Vajrajvālānalārka.
    These names, some of them, seem familiar. There were a bunch of "lower caste gods" i.e. yakshas, marut, etc. (including dakinis and sakinis) who were converted to Buddhism at one point, literally, as it Buddha held conversions for them etc. They all got names starting with Vajra. Maybe I'm remembering badly.

    Quote Saman is a foundation of Lotus Family and would even indicate Sama Veda. Equilibrium through mantra, something like that, it sounds a lot like Dharma Speech.
    Equality of tones in mantras would mean the metering of the long and short vowels, I think.

    Quote The Curtains stand out from the background because they are in the Amoghasiddhi position in the Amoghasiddhi court.

    Lightning is in the Amoghasiddhi position of the Ratna court.

    Even if we do not know what all of them are, each of those is some kind of a cycle to the relevant wind or wisdom, Curtains being the final
    I have to think about this. Curtains don't necessarily mean the sheer voiles we have now. On a similar note, I can find no description or even a word for the cords which connect the jewels in Indra's net. Which is strange, I think.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    I have to think about this. Curtains don't necessarily mean the sheer voiles we have now. On a similar note, I can find no description or even a word for the cords which connect the jewels in Indra's net. Which is strange, I think.
    No, they are sometimes called a Canopy, it is more like a decorative ceiling curtain with fringes. It is confusing since Canopy is a synonym for Tent and other terms used to express the invincible dome. But yes, most of the converted deities gain Vajra names, and Yaksha is among the most significant. The "cords" may be the Net itself? I am not sure.

    A good image may be hard to find, since a mandala cannot really draw the Pavilion over itself, there would be nothing else to see. So these kind of Curtains are probably like a grace attribute to the overall "ceiling".

    A main idea behind the "giant eggshell" of a mandala is simply a border to keep out the nasties, and, if any are stuck inside, you peg them down with a Kila. But the protection is mainly done by the Vajra Fence and Pavilion; no one really thinks of the Ground as preventing invaders from below, which would also make sense, but the decorative curtain sounds much more like a Victory item like Parasol and Banner.

    I don't know. I don't like to make mistakes or say the wrong thing, but, since the artistic patterns hold some things in common which are not that hard once you see them, then one could easily note the curtains as being the "Final Accomplishment" in Pancha Daka--which even if this seems like a reversion to a basic format instead of going to seven or a hundred Buddhas--if it accompanies Hevajra Tantra, it is not really even teaching Generation Stage. It is Five Buddhas or perhaps Rupa Skandha from the view of mastery. Therefor I would take it as a bit of a challenging subject, hardly mentioned in most of the preliminary teachings.

    Because I am trying to deal with something like "the reality of symbols", my knowledge base is severed from rites like Opening the Eyes, which is probably one of the major missing parts to Entering the Mandala. It is actually possible to be given aspects of Completion Stage even if one is doing the most basic Kriya Tantras. Instead, I am looking more at how to bond with or gain a samaya to Yoga deities of various families, and beginning to put together the sub-systems as expressed by the main components of mandalas, which appears to be the intent of Dhanada Krama. In this sense, dhanada is not "wealth giving", even remotely, unless understood as knowledge and then the nidhi or self-secret knowledge hidden in the Yaksha kingdom.

    Vairocani has little independent existence aside from almost immediately and repetitively being taken as a part of Varahi and Cinnamasta. The second-most individual presentation of her is when she is white in Reversed Union with White Heruka. This, again, is like a major fulcrum, since it means a self-arisen White Heruka. And so, this is pretty close to her original or Orange heat manifestation having become Cool Mercury with its attributes sanitized, which is intended to access the purified white forms of other deities.

    Vajradhara is sometimes described as in Union with Vajrayogini, but not with Varahi.

    White Vajrayogini hardly has any independent recognition. According to Wiki, she is called Prajnaloka or Light of Prajna.

    Bhattacharya says of one Sadhanamala contributor:

    15. Kokadatta (No. 218).

    In the Tibetan Tangyur he stands as the author of
    the following works:

    1. Sukla Vajravarahl Sadhana.

    2. Sri VajrayoginI manasagopya-homavidhi.

    3. Sri Vajrayoginyabhipretahomavidhi.

    4. Vajravarahiprajnalokakrtyastotra .


    He is styled as Acarya or Mahacarya and was also
    known as Konkanapada.

    In the Sadhanamala he stands as the author of one
    single Sadhana which is devoted to the worship of
    Vajravarahl who is designated as Prajnaloka. It is
    rather an elaborate Sadhana where instructions are
    given for reciting Mantras while sitting on a corpse. The
    Mantra of Prajnaloka according to him is so powerful
    that the * careless repetition of the same only two lakh
    times enabled him to compose the Sadhana even though
    he never made any efforts to learn the Sastras.’ This
    Sadhana is included in the MS. B which shows that the
    author cannot be later than 1100 A.D.

    This name, Prajnaloka, shows up in Sadhanamala Varahi 218 which is large-ish and complicated.

    Taranatha transmits Venerable White Varahi Clarifying Intelligence 40, which is Dorje Naljorma Sherab Salme, who arises from Hrih but is crowned with Akshobya. Tibetan Deities copies this as Sukla Varahi Prajnaloka Krtva, and follows it with 99 which is the same "in the Ancient traditions" which means she gains Armor syllables.

    She uses a Red Vajra with three pennants, tramples Mara ("depriver of breath") and drinks his blood. She also has a Dharmodaya at the navel. Taranatha gives her the title Jetsun and both texts add the title Phags dKar, which may mean Varahi. However, she has no pig feature to be found.

    None of the mantras call her Vairocani (or anything); it does use the sixteen vowels and produces nectar from the tongue.

    I am not sure if this author has simply been loose in distinguishing Vajrayogini from Varahi. The former is something like "includes the escapade" of the latter. Varahi is described as having an inherent existence, i. e. is a Matrika, part of the environment, whereas Vajrayogini is only Noumenal or mind-born through practice. That is why we do not feature outer rites for Varahi's blessing or whatever. She is not used that way, it is like she is only to be "handled" by Gnosis.

    As a Sherab, this one cannot be much different from Prajna Vardhani, which is the Picu deities Sarasvati, Prajnaparamita, Marici.

    Is this safe, is this the same as Vairocani who joins Heruka, well, nothing exactly says so, unless you pierce those layers of meaning and reverse-engineer the distributed package. If this is an Akshobya deity, then she is closer to an extension of Prajnaparamita. Well, she is the Light of Prajna, which is a very Buddhist way of emulating Puranic Vairocani as Jvalantim Tapasi or the blaze of Tapas. That is her "conversion", not just converted but also cooled.

    Prajnaloka is also used by H. H. 3rd Karmapa, who we take to be a pinnacle of Shentong and perhaps one of the most definitive teachers period.
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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote No, they are sometimes called a Canopy, it is more like a decorative ceiling curtain with fringes. It is confusing since Canopy is a synonym for Tent and other terms used to express the invincible dome. But yes, most of the converted deities gain Vajra names, and Yaksha is among the most significant. The "cords" may be the Net itself? I am not sure.

    A good image may be hard to find, since a mandala cannot really draw the Pavilion over itself, there would be nothing else to see. So these kind of Curtains are probably like a grace attribute to the overall "ceiling".

    A main idea behind the "giant eggshell" of a mandala is simply a border to keep out the nasties, and, if any are stuck inside, you peg them down with a Kila.
    So a canopy or ceiling is like the description of Indra's net from Cooke, as well. I tried to do some digging on the cords, it's very hard to figure out when people are citing something and when they are amplifying it, and on what grounds. So far I have come up with, from different sources, that the cords are:

    1) lightning
    2) noumena and phenomena (warp and woof) with colors from the three gunas
    3) space and time, time being the vertical axis (or axes, since Cooke's translation clearly says high dimension)
    4) threads of light spanning space and time

    It's hard to track down without running into the thousands of current uses for the metaphor (I have a book by a mathematician, David Mumford, called, "Indra's Pearls", e.g.). There is even an entry on the Math Stack Exchange about the cardinality of Indra's net.

    The version about the noumena and phenomena is from Samkya and is old, so is the notion that time is vertical and perpendicular to the net.

    The idea that it is made of lightning in some fashion stems, I think, either from modern western stuff or it stems from the fact that Indra supposedly spun the whole thing up in an instant to fight someone, and may have used it to protect someone else.

    The threads are elsewhere described as infinitely fine, and there are allusions to spiderwebs.

    Quote She uses a Red Vajra with three pennants, tramples Mara ("depriver of breath") and drinks his blood. She also has a Dharmodaya at the navel.
    Interesting that Mara here is "depriver of breath". I spent the night "deprived of breath" watching visions of things decaying. I thought something was wrong because I went so long without moving (which doesn't usually happen with shaking), but it was part of it, it turned out, and turned out that all that destruction produced yet another kind of bliss.

    You have Prajnaloka as loka meaning "light" which gives the light of wisdom. She is also apparently thought of as the freedom of wisdom?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)

    You have Prajnaloka as loka meaning "light" which gives the light of wisdom. She is also apparently thought of as the freedom of wisdom?
    I am not sure.

    We kind of have to charter the territory.

    That was new to me, like a new entry.

    Tibetan weaving mandalas are both the five colors in space, and also their blends and motion. All of the metaphors are somewhat appropriate, although I would still say that the basic idea is different grades of mind which experience different degrees of light and matter. Indra resides in Kama Loka, and his heaven, the second, is the border of association with the physical plane. Tvastr sits there and makes whatever is needed. Above Indra is various states of mental purgation. Below is life and death in the usual sense.

    I am reluctant to independently speak much about Vajravarahi since at that point I feel as if dealing with a Nirmanakaya or Tulku, like with Simhamukha. Now when we speak of general deities and definitions, these are ever-present states of being, and so when we can identify Dharmadhatu, then we are at a point where it can begin to manifest as Prajnaparamita or Guhyajnana Dakini or Vajrayogini, since this is a way, so to speak, of bonding to her as a universal power without tampering with the lineages. Kurukulla is arguably definable as born from Tara combined with the exuding of nectar; Usnisa deities spring from the head of Buddha, Lightning Ekajati is born from his sweat. If we know what Kurukulla is, then his sweat is like sixteen of those Sixteens.

    Varahi's name is tied in a difficult way to dakinis and yoginis, and so I am trying to sort out what is Vajrayogini without pig, and is it fair to describe the white and yellow ones as Vairocani. This almost seems to be the case up to Cinnamasta.

    Vajrayogini is famous as the Three Reds of Sakya, being Naro, Maitri, and Indra's Dakinis. Among them, it has always seemed to me that Indrabhuti has a type of primacy, and that may become apparent at a glance and these frames make a little more sense to us. In the following, the published frames are the same as the sadhana sequence in both texts of Rinjung Gyatsa.


    Two-headed Vajrayogini of Chel or Chal tradition, followed by Naro and Maitri dakinis:







    These are all like Cinnamasta or are assoctiated with Triple mantra.

    Indra Dakini followed by Arthasiddhi and Cinnamasta:





    Here, the 1983 texts tells us she is the same as Chal--that is, two faced--but Orange. In that case, this Indra Dakini is a type of Varahi.









    Varnani and Vairocani followed by Indra Dakini:






    Here, Indradakini is a sneaky subtitle after Varahi Destroying the Opponent. But her name in the description is Vajrayogini. She drinks Nectar rather than Blood, although she is extremely fierce. She is the dual Varnani and Vairocani, Vajrayogini is her Heart Mantra, and Vajra Dakini is her Near Heart Mantra. Her foot reaches into the Brahma Realm and tramples Brahma and Sakra (Indra). So this particular version is highly explanatory towards the whole scheme, and it calls for attention since it is really a type of Indra Dakini. It is a development but still a step shy of Triple mantra.

    Kurmapadi (Vairocani), Shridhara's Varahi, and Naro Dakini:





    So there is an aspect of full pig head Varahi which is also Cinnamasta by having the associates. The blue Varnani is also called Nyan Dragma "Famous Lady", although Nyan also clearly means ear-whispered transmission.


    Reversed Vajrayogini (Vairocani), followed by Krodha Kali (Vajradakini) and her first retinue member:







    The last retinue member followed by Prajnaloka or White Varahi Increasing Prajna, and the same from the Ancient Texts:








    Sadhanamala contains the same as some of those, although it appears to have other instances of Vairocani being the sole mantra applied to a deity.

    Vairocani--Varahi 217 tells us sahajananda svabhavam, her self-nature is Sahaja Ananda or the Fourth Joy, and clearly invokes Vitana. Vairocani--Varahi 227 is a Cemetery goddess in Vairocana Family. Neither one seem to refer to any pig feature, or, their own color.

    It also has something to say about White Varahi. But as we can see, overall she has a modular structure, in one place she does Inverted Stupa, then Armor, and at a point where you have Sahaja Ananda, it is the upper components such as Curtains.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Tibetan weaving mandalas are both the five colors in space, and also their blends and motion. All of the metaphors are somewhat appropriate, although I would still say that the basic idea is different grades of mind which experience different degrees of light and matter. Indra resides in Kama Loka, and his heaven, the second, is the border of association with the physical plane. Tvastr sits there and makes whatever is needed. Above Indra is various states of mental purgation. Below is life and death in the usual sense.
    Good to know, so I get the feeling I do not have to choose which of the possible threads for the net are true, just take all of them as being different ways of describing it. The blends make sense with the idea that the colors somehow also come from the qualities (gunas).

    Quote Here, Indradakini is a sneaky subtitle after Varahi Destroying the Opponent. But her name in the description is Vajrayogini. She drinks Nectar rather than Blood, although she is extremely fierce. She is the dual Varnani and Vairocani, Vajrayogini is her Heart Mantra, and Vajra Dakini is her Near Heart Mantra. Her foot reaches into the Brahma Realm and tramples Brahma and Sakra (Indra).
    I was under the impression that Vajrayogini always drank Nectar, I thought the entrails in her Kapala produced nectar which she drank (can't remember where I had read that).

    Quote Vairocani--Varahi 217 tells us sahajananda svabhavam, her self-nature is Sahaja Ananda or the Fourth Joy, and clearly invokes Vitana. Vairocani--Varahi 227 is a Cemetery goddess in Vairocana Family. Neither one seem to refer to any pig feature, or, their own color.
    Two things: The first sentence has a good "feel" to it, I have to think about it. The last, I looked around at what the pigs represent when they are not representing desire/greed, it seems that they are complex. There is something about her cry representing compassion as opposed to the horse cry (male, is this Hayagriva?) representing wisdom. These are reversed with the female as compassion and the male as wisdom. Is she ever just "sow necked"?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    I was under the impression that Vajrayogini always drank Nectar, I thought the entrails in her Kapala produced nectar which she drank (can't remember where I had read that).


    Two things: The first sentence has a good "feel" to it, I have to think about it. The last, I looked around at what the pigs represent when they are not representing desire/greed, it seems that they are complex. There is something about her cry representing compassion as opposed to the horse cry (male, is this Hayagriva?) representing wisdom. These are reversed with the female as compassion and the male as wisdom. Is she ever just "sow necked"?
    It is tricky, those are good questions.

    The answer seems to usually be "not in all cases because it changes". That is the caveat I use with almost all deities, having become immediately frustrated by the writing style that "x is y". It might be like that in Hindu tantra. In Buddhism, there are so many changes to color, family, and location, a good example being Sitabani, well-known as fiery and red, but then we find a major explanatory mandala using tantric motifs where she turns green and perhaps represents her name, Cool Forest. These are not cartoon artists trying to figure out how to keep you interested in our show, it is an attempt to portray a mental and physiological change that can scarcely be explained to an ordinary "bundle of senses" any more than calculus to a kindergartner.

    Vajrayogini's bowl is almost always Blood, which at the most basic is the pressing of wisdom out of worldly experience.

    In certain ways it may become nectar. The term nectar is used in a few different ways; it is the liquid substances which are the dhyanis or prajnas as urine and other "impure" substances, which are mixed and purified. But then it also means an internal liquid-like warm bliss. And finally it means what we might call Medicine. This is why it seems to me very useful to craft Generation Stage sadhanas which are timed with the evolution of Nectar, or, is a type of Nectar approval process, based in Varuni and Vairocani.

    So when we see a Vase, such as with Amitayus, this usually does mean nectar in the sense of elixir of immortality. And sometimes this may appear in unusual hands, such as those of Vetali or Vajrayogini.

    As a bowl, it is almost always Blood, which in a few cases is something more specific like "blood of the Four Maras". Occasionally it is nectar as with White Vetali or Indra Dakini.

    And so Indra Dakini is noteworthy since her well-known side is much the same as Naro Dakini, except she adds a pig face, a Ghona. However the semi-hidden truth is that she also has a white form which is intermediate/explanatory. It may easily be confused for a White Maitri Dakini. But this one explains her heart and near heart mantras, which is complementary to Chakrasamvara, i. e. the Four Dakinis are his heart mantra and so on. Complex deities usually have at least four mantras, the Seed, Heart, Near Heart, and Essence. She has the possibly unique description that her lower foot smashes the Seven Talas or Underworlds, while her raised foot has entirely penetrated form and tramples Brahma and Indra.

    And so when we look at those color plates, we find ten or so "Vajrayoginis or Vajravarahis", and then in Sadhanamala, there are also about ten, but these are not necessarily identical, or in evident order. Neither one is exhaustive, since Guhyasamaja Sadhanamala is a book of forty-six of these Varahis up to her large Twelve Arm form. I am not sure if it is translated, but Elizabeth English used it for her Vajrayogini book. So we can access a large amount of the descriptions, but, I think there is an issue with what Pabonkha has provided in making Cinnamasta like a direct handout sadhana.

    Varahi 218 is or tells you to do Prajnaloka Sadhana.

    217 is the only reference to Sahajananda in the entire book.

    It does not mention Kurmapadi at all.

    So if we look at the structure, 217 is rather precisely both an advanced tantric development, along with the final mandala assets. The colophon says Advaya Vajra, which is a pseudonym for Maitri, and so if we look for what he says about Sahajananda, then it should apply here. It is perhaps accurate to say Maitri teaches not just raised foot, but, both feet up, which could only be considered flight or levitation. This is what makes Sukhasiddhi different from Hindu Lajja Gauri, and Mahamaya with Buddhadakini different from standing intercourse positions.

    It has a sexualized aspect in almost every way conceivable, however, the female with her legs up is still a symbol of the downwards triangle, itself mainly being the Gunas.

    Color is a compound of Gunas. When we retain so much Puranic material, the thing about them is they all contain a Creation Myth, which varies from story to story, but always shares some basics, and is always about the shaping of formless root matter into manifestation. Tantra does not care about celebrating that and worshipping it, really, it is like throwing it away. We use Nirvritti which is like Pralaya. No, we do not literally kill ourselves or destroy the world, but, mentally, it is like that. We extinguish the senses and the creation and abide in something formless. And it is after that when the beginning of the Puranas is applicable, i. e., represents the practitioner's mind arising from cessation back into manifestation. Ultimately in Buddhist sadhanas, this is Emerging as Maha Sambhoga Kaya and complete Nirmana Kaya.

    So then the Gunas are the Tri-Shakti and why it is described as splitting into more shaktis and being able to move and mix.

    The Divine Gunas are Higher Yoni Triangle, since this manifested one is Mani Pur at the core of one's body.

    In his Dohas or tantric songs, Maitri uses some almost exclusively Vaisnava phrases, related to Kunkuma, which seems to heavily register with the only Buddhist dharani thought of as an inquiry by Vishnu, Narayan, which is answered by Mahamaya Vijaya Vahini or War Chariot goddess who is revered by Vajradhara.

    I cannot recall why "neck" is the meaning for Tamdrin--Hayagriva, it is different from face or head when that is the intent. Since it says "neck", that is really the method of attachment, and why this apparently Buddhist deity is actually a minor incarnation of Vishnu used in the Horse Head rite of Immortality involving the Aswins and how Tvastr is like a custodian of nectar.

    There are definitely branches from the syllable Hr becoming Hri. All of these have a default "soft a", so Hr is the same as Hra. The seed syllables in mantras are almost always chanted, Hayagriva is wrathful and it becomes Hrih. However as in Shakta, Hrim is the basic Maya syllable, is the main Mirror syllable when we think of a goddess holding a mirror.

    Prajna--Upaya or Prajna--Karuna are usually considered male--female couples, but it is correct that "within" a single devi or her retinue, a female can also handle the Method role of Upaya or Karuna. And they can probably reverse it on a male. And so what the syllables and roles "are" is more of a question of "when" or in which sadhana. We see that Hrim is also handled by Vajra Family in Mahacina Krama, there is some flow via Ekajati to Lotus Family, and eventually there are Red Hum syllables and Red Vajras up to things like Takkiraja and Vira Vajradharma.

    So far, I am unable to trace Kurmapadi as a stance or in older sources, however there is somewhat of a close parallel in 227, if I use Varuni to beget Vairocani then she had better be able to make it across the Cemeteries without fading. And so even though it is the last sadhana in her series, it actually probably should be prior to the first ones which are the unwieldy hypostatic blends.

    I take Pigs as Vajra Ignorance, the subtle form of Ignorance, which is the first sin. They say if we were not ignorant, no other sins would ensue. Because we are, we are susceptible to things that often have more emotional content, which at the most basic level, are Attachment and Aversion. Those are like the roots of the whole Raga--Lotus and Dvesa--Vajra Families. If these are expanded, once can do slightly more complex sins, such as Greed or Jealousy.

    The pig animal itself is extremely destructive and eats anything.

    If these become Tramen in the Talas, one is helpless, so to speak. It will be the only Mental Object which one will be forced to witness objectively. A nightmarish dream which could be instantly dispelled, except one lacks the mental ability to do so, is in a swoon or daze under this monstrosity of one's own making.

    Comparatively, Red Lion Face Vajrayogini is not Simhamukha, and the Lion is both Peaceful Durga and the vehicle of Lion's Roar Samadhi which is used by all the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. That is why it seems to me that if we do not hold a Varahi lineage, it is safer to think of the Lion, which is a revelation by Nyan.

    Marici is far more complex about pigs. She does, of course, have pig-free forms, but at some point, Varahi is an inevitable graft to her.

    Varahi can operate in any family, but is mainly a Vairocana deity. This itself is unusual, since she is gated behind Vasudhara, and is really an earth goddess, or, subterranean in the Talas. She is like the total motion of Hum syllable which we say "is" solar but, manifests individually in the heart, in a way that is mentally linked and reflective through the Talas, underworlds, and core of the earth. It will move from there on the Garuda into the sunlight which melts the pig or Ignorance through the entire path of Vajra Ignorance, which is like a lack of Amoghasiddhi, in other words it is Mogha Siddhi or Ignorance of Occult Power.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote So if we look at the structure, 217 is rather precisely both an advanced tantric development, along with the final mandala assets. The colophon says Advaya Vajra, which is a pseudonym for Maitri, and so if we look for what he says about Sahajananda, then it should apply here. It is perhaps accurate to say Maitri teaches not just raised foot, but, both feet up, which could only be considered flight or levitation. This is what makes Sukhasiddhi different from Hindu Lajja Gauri, and Mahamaya with Buddhadakini different from standing intercourse positions.

    It has a sexualized aspect in almost every way conceivable, however, the female with her legs up is still a symbol of the downwards triangle, itself mainly being the Gunas.
    So, I'm mostly very reticent about applying directly things from my shaking to symbolism in other things - spec. thangkas and sadhanamalas. It's about that reverse thing I told you about where I seem to be always starting at the end and going in the opposite direction from the Vajrayana or Yoga accepted practices. But this time it seems relevant enough to just throw it out there.

    Kurmapadi is the turtle stance that you have Vairocani in above, and orange. I have pretty much all of these poses, which you have been meticulously delineating between Dakinis and deities, as parts of the kriya I shake into when one or the other of the Dakinis identify (or sometimes I say 'manifest', it all depends on whether they seem to have already been there or not). Many of them are mixed up from what you've been finding, and again that's okay for me, they need not be precise matches, for the reasons you just gave. So I do have the kriya of Sukhasiddhi's legs up position, and the various flying poses, and the warrior stance that Vajrayogini is in sometimes, and the tandava stance that the Dakinis are frequently dancing in, and some others (including a Burmese sitting stance which may be because my legs can't do vajrasana).

    The Kurmapadi stance is not, for me, identified with a specific Dakini, it is identified with producing what are probably the two drops, but to me, I had labeled them as 'onions' because of their shapes. Specifically, the stance is associated with the red one, which forms at the bottom, and appears, connected with my clear body, as a crowning birth. I have also seen the stance, both in Western and in Eastern depictions, as childbirth.

    Quote Color is a compound of Gunas.
    [...]
    So then the Gunas are the Tri-Shakti and why it is described as splitting into more shaktis and being able to move and mix.

    The Divine Gunas are Higher Yoni Triangle, since this manifested one is Mani Pur at the core of one's body.
    Adding this to the description of the net or of the fabric of a weave, things begin to make more sense.

    Quote I cannot recall why "neck" is the meaning for Tamdrin--Hayagriva, it is different from face or head when that is the intent. Since it says "neck", that is really the method of attachment, and why this apparently Buddhist deity is actually a minor incarnation of Vishnu used in the Horse Head rite of Immortality involving the Aswins and how Tvastr is like a custodian of nectar.
    I was pretty sure, but may be wrong, that the neck part was related to the cry, which is why I asked if the pig deities are ever pig necked instead of pig headed or faced. Because of her cry being specifically paralleled to his cry in something I had looked up. Her cry is also supposed to be a demonstration of emptiness (sunyata emptiness).

    Anyway, it's sometimes important to me because of the way my neck shakes, independently of head and body, during my shaking. It feels leathery when it is shaking, like a hide, and the shaking turns it transparent. Which brings me to something else: My neck and throat have become enormously central and complex recently (I told you about the huge vision at my throat), and focus for channeling energy seems to be to the root of my tongue, which buzzes, sparks, etc. when that happens. Yesterday and today there has been some kind of musculature or nerves or something activated there, it's one of those places to "flick" now, like the one deep in my mid-lower abdomen and some others.

    But here is the thing. It wants to sing. As in it specifically has something that I'm supposed to add breath and sound to and it is going to do something, like move or shake or something. The Dakinis are treating it like a mantra. For my part, I tried some hums and breaths over it and didn't figure it out. It has something to do with all the other goings on at my throat and is very linked to the summoning, if I summon, it starts to move and flick and buzz.

    It is some kind of culminating event on the horizon. The whole thing is very odd but fits in with going kind of backwards. Vajrayana/Mantrayana puts the mantras first before anything else happens, the Keeneys in their descriptions of shamanic "cooking" put the music and therefore the song at the very beginning. And yet, here I am. My shaking has so far had sounds and music inside and of course I can hear the Dakinis, etc. but now there is this thing that will be not silent from the outside and will come from this place way too far back on my tongue.
    Last edited by Old Student; 15th September 2020 at 20:42. Reason: left out something

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)

    So, I'm mostly very reticent about applying directly things from my shaking to symbolism in other things - spec. thangkas and sadhanamalas. It's about that reverse thing I told you about where I seem to be always starting at the end and going in the opposite direction from the Vajrayana or Yoga accepted practices. But this time it seems relevant enough to just throw it out there.
    I think I understand you here.

    Yes, to some extent, you have blown by all the preliminaries and landed in some type of dakini field that the average practitioner will never reach. It is rare, but possible, to have the merit to attain a higher spiritual state very quickly, especially compared to someone who has to climb the ladder rungs. When I was young and first experienced occult energy, there was a period of maybe about six months of creeping, minor buildup, until it erupted with the force of an avalanche. At that point, I increasingly lived in a condition not of this world for years until deciding to stop it. At that time, I had to retro-actively seek information that described what was happening.

    I have hardly ever or never perceived those types of phenomenal details, unless it is rolled back a bit to where a whole chunk of desert becomes the male entity. You have at least ten non-dual pairs like that. I could probably say I sense one big one, but it is not a chakra at all, more like a Destroyer vs. Helper of the total being.

    I could perhaps say that instead of energetic dakinis, I have perceived meditative Dhyanis, which to me at the time was more like a Native American totem pole. Although this could perhaps be similar to Eleven Face Avalokiteshvara if his body was a section of pole, without all the arms.

    Vajrasattva or any deities I have used have no form, my visualization ability is not much better than fuzzy balls of light, which is typical for many people.

    They are however some kind of spiritual presence regulated by sound, they are really regulated by the entire environment or perceptual field, but most strongly by sound.

    Enlightenment is made of none other than these perceptual fields, mainly via the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment, which is what makes Vajradaka an important explanation. It could be said these are the same goddesses as in Armor Deities, which is an important early addition to Varahi or Vajrayogini according to any of the sources. They are operating in a different role, which is unable to be described as a female-only stratum, but must have Smrti as the male seed. Much of this is for the purposes of Samadhi, which at least in part is defined as visualization. It is part of Seven Syllable deity, which is something quite similar to the proper channeling of intense mantric backpressure and strange lights.

    Just by discipline, yoga can physiologically be close to the same for anyone. And so in my experience, I found that the fairly broadly-defined Laya Yoga is correct, and with respect to the body, can do the same subtle or Suksma Yoga as in Buddhism. Here, however, it is more detailed. And so if they give a Vairocani--Varahi who specifically means Sahajananda or the Fourth Joy, then, from the Laya Yoga view, I am simply able to affirm there is such a thing by having experienced it, and then as a Buddhist devotee, I am now trying to galvanize the additional details being conveyed by the sadhana.

    Here is perhaps a way of understanding Buddhist tantra as other than orthodox Hinduism. The normal orthodox rite uses a Conch bearing holy water characterized by Varuna. So then there is a sense that it is holy, baptismal, and a panacea or the spiritual path itself. In the Buddhist sadhanas, Varuna is almost entirely shut out, seeming to have only a minor form as a directional guardian. Instead, it is no longer really his wife, but her daughter, Varuni, who is consciously invoked into the water, which adds the element Kha or Sky to the Apas or water, and it becomes the equivalent of Soma or a lunar beverage or intoxicant. Varuni is related to Samjna and Vairocani, particularly as a process. Eventually in the powerful forms of Lakshmi we will find her followed by a Makara Rider, meaning controls the operation of the mysterious fluid. So it is like a gingerbread crumb trail of details about or stemming from Varuni, which underlie the practice, which in the end is as if becoming Varuna or gaining his Shakti. Varuna is the Indra of the Formless World.

    Samjna is the name of Lotus Family's Skandha, and we also find that Lotus is the primary "giver of mantra" and related to the Throat Center and a new distribution of prana, which is the inner meaning of Generation Stage. This is mostly the Third Yoga, Pranayama, which relies on Vajra Muttering or the centering and balancing of Om Ah Hum, which can perhaps give the Fourth Yoga, Dharani or Retention, not losing the winds, which is very close to the Cemetery description of having closed all the doors.

    Anything from epic poetry to song is useful to the same Lotus Family or Dharma Speech. Starting from their root syllables such as Hrih, which doesn't have to be wrathful, unless in the case of Hayagriva. Part of Varuni is in emanating the tantric Khandaroha of Lotus Family.

    The closest thing to a "neck" sadhana that comes to mind is Nilakantha. That is a relatively standard take on Shiva in some way drinking poison, which turned his neck or throat blue. But that one did not suggest what you are talking about. When one talks about the endless extensions of Universe Lotus then it is called Chiliocosm, which is like the first eight hundred pages of Avatamsaka Sutra. But you have something like a massive power surge to the throat which is capable of displaying Indra's Net or Maya Jala which then itself is capable of finding the extensions.

    Manjushri can do this and Namasangiti describes him as Mantra King having the Six Families.

    It is virtually the same subject as in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, but a bit more precise.

    Manjushri is Vagisvari and is not in Lotus Family, he is like the male half of Sarasvati, who participates in Nilakantha and turns Blue herself, which is considered a Saumya or mild form of fierce blue deities such as Ugra Tara. If we simplified the Seven Namasangiti "mandalas", and unfolded them as stages of mantric intensity, it would be something like:

    Vajrasattva
    Sword
    Lion
    Death
    Dharmadhatu or Garbha Dhatu
    Vajradhatu
    Vagisvari Manjughosha

    It matches a "system of planes", from what I can tell, Fourth = Death = Kama Loka.

    The fifth or Akasha or Garbha Dhatu is usually described as the female womb into which the sixth male or Vajra is placed, and the combination of these is the real Dharmadhatu or final seventh aspect.

    Semantically, it may be said that the fifth is the Dharmadhatu anyway, and the path or Bodhisattva stages is equivalent to how it is progressively revealed.

    And then, Manjughosha is practically unique for introducing a Dharani system based on the Bodhisattva Bhumis.

    That might be a good interpretation--Kurmapadi as a birth stance for the Red Drop. It seems to me the "Vairocanis" are not at all simultaneous, they span from the beginning of Tapas up to Sahajananda, which is the whole Yoga Path, which is practically the whole Path minus a few finishing touches.

    As much has been said about Lotus Family and the meanings and energies of mantra, when Sound itself becomes centered, then you are in Akshobya tantra. Vairocana is there at first or is like the sire of Indra's Net and moves for summoning the Dharmadhatu Tower. And then Akshobya is Vajra Family which is Citta Cakra which is the Heart. So I think the "other side" of the magnetic door of the throat is both an esoterically-useful crown center, as well as the Heart as the true seat of consciousness. When the throat finally does its thing, you should have this kind of conduit. Then it is like the heart slowly unfolds forever.

    You may be close to the point of seeing how plain light or Akash is given shapes and colors by the mind, which is the Shaper, or, an additional meaning of Vairocana.

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