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Thread: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Then I can gather a Horde of Taras and signs of Prajnaparamita will keep coming back, until it is revealed that the highest tantras such as Kalachakra or Guhyeshvari are really using a fusion or hypostasis of Prajnaparamita.
    In strictly historical terms, in Odisha and Bengal (Pala Kingdom really), there was a progression from Prajnaparamita to Cunda that followed the same arc as that from Shakyamuni to Akshobhya and is interpreted as a shift from Mahayana to Tantra. Not sure that progression works in other geographical locations but it might.

    Quote She has customized something called Marici Jala as the Dhatu of all the Lokas
    Several sources say maricijala is a water mirage (the watery part of a mirage in the desert).


    (Trailokyavijaya mudra)

    This is interesting that she is clothed and coming out of rain and is like a mirage in the desert.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    In strictly historical terms, in Odisha and Bengal (Pala Kingdom really), there was a progression from Prajnaparamita to Cunda that followed the same arc as that from Shakyamuni to Akshobhya and is interpreted as a shift from Mahayana to Tantra. Not sure that progression works in other geographical locations but it might.

    The impression I get from most of the Oriental systems is that they are based in Garbhadhatu and Vajradhatu, or, expanding Five Families to Six, mainly emphasizing the male aspect.

    We are, so to speak, simply outlining a Seventh and emphasizing Maha Vajradhatu and the female aspect.

    Cunda was the Yidam of one of the first major Pala kings and also a personal Protector of his by providing a magic Club, while he is also considered to have an interest in Vajrayana. And so, it mainly is the explanation of Prajnaparamita Sutra, at a Tantra level. Around that time, you do get a build-up of monasteries and universities, some of which could handle thousands of members. Most were not that big, but, there were a lot of them, and so, there must have been increasing public awareness of at least some of this. I think there was also a huge underground, since so many of the Mahasiddhas were trained by obscure, unknown, "nobodies", there must have been many more no-ones who were quite advanced; the Dharma Wheels were turned according to the time in which there was an audience to understand them; and so if Vasubandhu is writing to some crowd who can appreciate the fine points of the distinction of Arhats, it is likely that many of them were never enrolled in an institution.

    Jala can literally be "water" and marici "mirage" and so, if anything, this is also a plausible meaning for one of the first Dissolutions, first or second, depending on how you want to compare it to Smoke--Dhumavati. If I did it intentionally in the framework of a sadhana, I would put Smoke first, since it is the color of Samadhi as expressed by Candi, and also that Dhumavati is a name for Lakshmi--Kamadhatvishvari.

    I cannot yet say if this is how it is being used, here, but at least we see it is being used.

    I certainly missed a couple details in the first analysis of Six Arm Kurukulla.

    Kurukulla 181 seems to contradict the other notes by using a form of Upari, "above or upon".

    The combining form -opari is common in Sadhanamala, for example:

    candramandalopari

    "upon a moon disk".

    Or, as a pronoun, tasyopari, "upon which", referring to something just mentioned. Because there is a lot of use of "spawn stack", there are frequently multiple "-opari"s in any given sadhana.

    However it is used as a Mount very sagaciously. There is one instance of:

    mayuropari

    and it is also used with Lion or Simha for Mahasri and the Simhanadas of Manjushri and Avalokiteshvara.

    This Kurukulla is the only Garudopari.

    In fact it comes right after Naga Family, which does include Taksaka, not as a Mount:

    anantādikulikāntān nāgān nyaset sarvveṣu sthāneṣu -
    akṣarāṇāṃ purā nyāsaṃ svarāṇāṃ ca viśeṣataḥ /
    tatpaścād anantakulikau keśavandhanasthitau //
    hemābhastakṣakaḥ karṇabhūṣākṛtodyamaḥ śiraḥ /
    maṇibandhe mahāpadmastaptacāmīkaraprabhah //
    yajñopavītakriyayā sthitaḥ karkkoṭakaḥ sitaḥ /
    vāsukirmekhalāyāṃ tu raktapadmāmaladyutiḥ //
    kundabandhūkasaṅkāśau padmaśaṅkhau ca pādayoḥ /
    īdṛśaurābharaṇair ugrair bhūṣito mantravit sadā //
    kurukullārūpasaṃśitaḥ garuḍopari samāsīnaḥ sādhayet
    sacarācaraṃ evam anenānukrameṇa /

    He is like gold or has gold light, is the Earrings.

    Examined carefully, the Nagas given are Ananta, Taksaka, Maha Padma, Karkkotaka, Vasuki, and perhaps Padma.

    The Nagas are the method for:

    alātacakrarūpeṇa mantrarūpeṇa sādhakaḥ /

    Firebrand or glowing coal chakra? Mantra is the form of its spiritual practice.

    This is for her initiation, or her Kamandalu Jala Abhiseka as mentioned previously, it is these Nagas as a Nyasa, after which there is a Purna Kumbha, which appears to use Twenty-one (syllables or praises?). Then the strange ending with the colors.

    It perhaps means that Kurukulla adorns herself with the Nagas and then gets on a Garuda, since her form was described at the beginning, and this is the end. Because she said something about Vishnu, this would not be too surprising.

    179 is like a prelude to this, copying multiple blocks of passages, but uses her Four Arm form in Rakta Vastra or red clothes.

    Alice Getty simply said that Kurukulla "may" have six or eight arms, but claims to have seen her on Rahu. She also says that Vajravarahi is simply a form of Marici, and it is this, who is Samding Dorje Phamo.

    Most Tibetan lineages retain four to six basic Kurukullas, whereas Sadhanamala contains:

    - [171] Tarobhava Kurukulla (Kalpoktam)
    - [172] Tarobhava Kurukulla Sadhanam (Muktakena)
    - [173] Kurukulla Shadbhuja (six hands)
    - [174] Ashtabhuja Kurukulla (Indrabhuti, eight hands)
    - [175] Bhramariyoga Kurukulla Sadhanam
    - [176] Kurukulla Upadesha
    - [177] Kurukulla Sadhanam
    - [178] Arya Shrimati Kurukulla Sadhanam
    - [179] Uddiyana Vinirgata Kurukulla
    - [180] Shrulka Kurukulla Sadhanam
    - [181] Kurukulla Sadhanam, Acharya Shri Krishna Padanam Mayajala Mahayoga Tantra
    - [182] Kurukulla Shadbhuja Bhattarika Sadhanam
    - [183] Kurukulla, Sahaja Vilasya Hevajra Tantra
    - [184] Samskipta Kurukulla
    - [185] Sita Kurukulla
    - [186] Hevajra Krama Kurukulla
    - [187] Kurukulla Sadhanam Karunachalashya Hevajra Tantra
    - [188] Kurukulla Sadhanam
    - [189] Karmaprasar Prayog
    - [190] Kurukulla Balividhi

    So there are at least a couple other examples of Six Arm Kurukulla, 173 and 182, if not more. Those two are also doing Trailokyavijaya Mudra, and they are Red.

    She looks pretty potent to me.

    Here we find about a dozen articles on this goddess which are not even recognized to exist by any extant practice. Now I think that because they are stable as evidenced by these practices, and that before these practices, there was no such thing in the world, the fact that there is no such thing now, is not really a barrier.

    I was perhaps mixed-up and that Trailokyavijyaya Mudra is the same as Bhutadamaru Mudra, which is used by Vajrapani and Kurukulla. Humkara is with palms inwards. I should know better because I made these the challenge issues for Taras five and six.

    Because Kurukulla can be found somewhat wrathful, I wrapped her in as Six, Trailokyavijaya, Maroon Terrorizer, subdues spirits.

    The verse does not say she is dark red. And Kurukulla shows Trailokyavijaya (Bhutadamara) mudra on her Mayajala and Eight Arm forms. She is crucial to Sakya and considered secret and esoteric in Kagyu. Her attendants include Vajragandhari (consort of Yaksha general Candavajrapani) and Red Gauri. Hindus see her as Tara--Sundari--Matangi (the latter two being Aum and Om). She is similar to Siddhi sambhava, i. e. gives powers. Nyingma's red interpretation for this verse is compared to Vajravidarana, so, is not far from Red Vasudhara, called Vajravidarani. This one is also a Nepalese Dharani.

    The verse does not even mention Trailokyavijaya, which is just an idea from one of the traditions. The Tara in question here is simply admired by Hindu beings. Tibetans have imputed a meaning that is like Bhutadamara. Kurukulla is admired by everyone, and if not, she can do that. It does not need to be Vidarani, who is Vasudhara, as I thought Vasudhara should be at Nine because it uses a type of Prithvi Mudra, although it is called Triple Gem Mudra. Arguably something else could go here, since Vasudhara does not necessarily do it this way. This verse clearly says it is about the mudra.




    Humkara Mudra is like holding a Dorje and Bell, except nothing is there. It is the normal way Yab-Yum males are posed, and it is also the special gesture of Amaravajra. Male Humkara deity who opens Three Families of Vajravarahi is the same as Vajravali lineage held by Dolpopa and shared with the original Bodong-pa rare school used by Tibet's highest female tulku, Samding Dorje Phagmo.

    Tara Five makes things incredibly nefarious for Tibetan commentors to explain the Seven Worlds. It is just as nefarious with the unknown word "Tuttare", that has no meaning. Here, it is in conjunction with Humkara and a phrase about walking through all space since the beginning.

    The commentors tend to interpret this as is she is saying the "syllables" tuttare hum.

    I am simply open to a possibility that the "meaning" of tuttare is to have filled time and space with Humkara since the beginning, and, so, a Tara having this gesture, such as Amaravajra, could be considered here. That is, of course, not necessarily the meaning, because there isn't one. It is just a way of comparing the song to the forms of Tara that we can show were in use when it was composed, rather than the later variations by Atisha and others. There is still Sragdhara, and Vistara, and a few others that have not been scoped out.

    No dictionary, and none of the traditions can really give a meaning to "tuttare", whereas we can give a meaning of Humkara other than as the syllable.

    Amaravajra is also Maha Pratyangira.

    Although it says,

    The principal identifiable physical feature of Humkara is the main pair of arms crossed at the heart in a variant on the vajra embracing gesture with the palms turned outward and the index fingers straight and upward pointing. Alternately, a similar gesture can also be found on the top of the head rather than in front of the heart. When above the head the hands can be holding a vajra and bell. Sometimes this is referred to in texts as the 'vajra humkara gesture.'

    This is Humkara:







    Amaravajra:







    and this is Bhutadamara Vajrapani:








    he is at the level of the Second Kama Loka or Heaven of the Thirty-three and hauls in all of the Hindu deities in Sarvadurgati Parishodana; and, in Vajravali, he is related to Marici-in-Stupa.

    And so "this" Kurukulla is arguably the only one who presents an "alternative Bhutadamara". Not that her picture is available, or anyone knows much to speak of her, but as far as I know, she is unique for this. So I think that is a good reason for her as Tara Six if there is any hint that she may have tamed some of those spooks. And, if she continues it on her Eight Arm form, she perhaps does more with it than he does.

    These mudras are almost in parallel, you get Humkara--Three Families of Varahi (and Amaravajra), and Bhutadamara--Marici (and Sakya Simha and Vajradhatu). The gestures are both Vajrapani in Sarvadurgati Parishodana. Or, they are both Tara as Amaravajra and Kurukulla.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Cunda was the Yidam of one of the first major Pala kings and also a personal Protector of his by providing a magic Club, while he is also considered to have an interest in Vajrayana. And so, it mainly is the explanation of Prajnaparamita Sutra, at a Tantra level.
    This explains it then. I (with much help from you) had identified one of the Dakinis, the white six-armed one originally in my deep abdomen, with Cunda. There was one night that during something she was doing she talked about "reverting to Prajnaparamita" in order to carry it out.

    The current "new one" has both pushed towards and indicated a high preference for being called Ushas. I can't find anything "post-Vedic" about Ushas, or Buddhist for that matter, except that Marici is sometimes identified as her wrathful aspect. So this has some bearing on my interest in that interpretation of maricijala --

    Quote Jala can literally be "water" and marici "mirage" and so, if anything, this is also a plausible meaning for one of the first Dissolutions, first or second, depending on how you want to compare it to Smoke--Dhumavati. If I did it intentionally in the framework of a sadhana, I would put Smoke first, since it is the color of Samadhi as expressed by Candi, and also that Dhumavati is a name for Lakshmi--Kamadhatvishvari.

    I cannot yet say if this is how it is being used, here, but at least we see it is being used.
    So with what I said about Ushas in mind, if you will bear with me, I did some deeper diving into that passage (and since I don't know grammar very much and have nowhere near the experience you have with this, this will be a bit like watching someone read tea leaves).

    The first part reads:

    marīci-jālai daśadiksthithān sarvvalokadhātūn avabhāsya

    Both maricijala and diksthithi are states demarcated by some practitioners of kundalini yoga (the old kind, not the "Sikh" kind). maricijala has two meanings in that context, both having to do with the watery mirages in the desert:

    The first is that mistaking the body for Atman is considered a maricijala -- a mirage, and ignorant.

    The second is more interesting, it is a state, a "state of yoga" into which a practitioner can enter by activating simultaneously all of the chakras, he/she becomes in a state of being a mirage where the 5 senses realize their illusions. Because of this meaning, beings can create, arise, or whatever from this mirage "feeling".

    Diksthithi translates as bearing in the mathematical sense of a bearing -- a direction, but dasasdiksthithi is not the usual expression at all for "the ten directions". It also has a yoga meaning as a gaze or a vision, and is a 10th state two states below samadhi.

    So the whole line appears to maybe be about a state of mirage from the 10th state of vision or gazing, which illuminates all of the world-systems, and this is when Kurukulla emerges (in the next line), and gives her bija initiation which makes the maricijala clear or understood.

    Or (or maybe simultaneously, which is how a Chinese text would be read), she emerges out of the mirage and illuminates the ten visions, and establishes a seed, of the morning wind of the maricijala -- the watery mirage.

    I have this thing, which I have mentioned before, the tan dancer/rainbow dancer, which is like a shivshakti -- in that the whole body of it is filled by the two, what is not tan dancer -- mirage, is rainbow dancer -- evanescent colors out of dew. It's in the top of my head, I have become it on occasion recently when managing to do the dissolve, decay, decompose thing. I also have this newly identified Ushas, who spins the threads of the net, and who both collaborates with and shares the jewel at my throat (this is very recent, last three nights) with Kurukulla. This collaboration gets to the point of sort of melding and "mixing hands" -- doing things where some of the hands are Kurukulla and some are Ushas and they all seem to come from the same place.

    Last night they produced another plane, infinite and bound by red netting like the one at my palate, but much lighter and different, instead of the thick sweet cream or yogurt, it was made of light, and dipping a finger into it and letting it drip produced sound like either a pure tone or laughter.

    There isn't supposed to be some connection between Kurukulla and Ushas, and the dancer is also involved. So this was why I latched onto the thing about the mirage, and did the "tea leaves" translation of vibhavayet as "morning wind". Also, Ushas has appeared floating in front of me at my throat jewel (where pretty much anything can appear), bathed in golden light, holding a staff of some kind, laughing. She was clothed -- which gave me a start when you mentioned the thing about kancuka.

    Quote This is for her initiation, or her Kamandalu Jala Abhiseka as mentioned previously, it is these Nagas as a Nyasa, after which there is a Purna Kumbha, which appears to use Twenty-one (syllables or praises?). Then the strange ending with the colors.

    It perhaps means that Kurukulla adorns herself with the Nagas and then gets on a Garuda, since her form was described at the beginning, and this is the end. Because she said something about Vishnu, this would not be too surprising.
    Also interesting.
    Quote The verse does not say she is dark red. And Kurukulla shows Trailokyavijaya (Bhutadamara) mudra on her Mayajala and Eight Arm forms. She is crucial to Sakya and considered secret and esoteric in Kagyu. Her attendants include Vajragandhari (consort of Yaksha general Candavajrapani) and Red Gauri. Hindus see her as Tara--Sundari--Matangi (the latter two being Aum and Om). She is similar to Siddhi sambhava, i. e. gives powers. Nyingma's red interpretation for this verse is compared to Vajravidarana, so, is not far from Red Vasudhara, called Vajravidarani. This one is also a Nepalese Dharani
    .

    She seems very complex. Maybe it isn't that odd that she would pair with Ushas for something, and she is connected to more of what I see during shaking than just stuff at my throat or on my chest.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    The current "new one" has both pushed towards and indicated a high preference for being called Ushas. I can't find anything "post-Vedic" about Ushas, or Buddhist for that matter, except that Marici is sometimes identified as her wrathful aspect. So this has some bearing on my interest in that interpretation of maricijala --
    First of all, very good, it is best we "delve" into Sanskrit on an academic and comparative basis--this being essentially the Gatekeepers of Dharmadhatu Vagisvara mandala, analysis and so forth. I am only "familiar" with it by way of repetition, have zero formal training or anything of the sort.

    Ushas is, perhaps, a bit more "daybreak" than "last moment of darkness". She does, however, have a replete post-Vedic existence--she is known as Eos and Aurora. Savitri is the name which more specifically means "potential contained in darkness", however, it is perhaps arguable that Ushas is really Savitri, otherwise she would simply be the shakti of Surya. Savitri on the other hand is also connected to Indra and Tvastr.

    Neither Ushas or Savitri is in Sadhanamala at all.

    However, Ushas is also used in the Aranyaka metaphor of changing the literal Horse Sacrifice into a symbolic one:

    "As a further development of the Brāhmaṇas however we get the Āraṇyakas or forest treatises. These works were probably composed for old men who had retired into the forest and were thus unable to perform elaborate sacrifices requiring a multitude of accessories and articles which could not be procured in forests. In these, meditations on certain symbols were supposed to be of great merit, and they gradually began to supplant the sacrifices as being of a superior order. It is here that we find that amongst a certain section of intelligent people the ritualistic ideas began to give way, and philosophic speculations about the nature of truth became gradually substituted in their place. To take an illustration from the beginning of the Bṛhadāranyaka we find that instead of the actual performance of the horse sacrifice (aśvamedha) there are directions for meditating upon the dawn (Uṣas) as the head of the horse, the sun as the eye of the horse, the air as its life, and so on. This is indeed a distinct advancement of the claims of speculation or meditation over the actual performance of the complicated ceremonials of sacrifice."

    From "A History of Indian Philosophy" which is not set in one teaching, but for example has a major article involving Sita as Mahalakshmi.

    In most of these schools, Phenomena are a Mirage. That is still the philosophy of Yogacara or Vijnana Vada, which the same book uses Lankavatara Sutra in a manner that would appear to refute Shentong. Doesn't matter; it still has Paramartha, and yes we still agree it is comprehended only from a Nairatma view.

    "All sense knowledge can be stopped only when the diverse unmanifested instincts of imagination are stopped (abhūta-parikalpa-vāsanā-vaicitra-nirodha). All our phenomenal knowledge is without any essence or truth (nihsvabhāva) and is but a creation of māyā, a mirage or a dream."

    Jnana is the one real knowledge from which the other forms of knowledge derive, still pretty much the same as the Panacaratra or Mahalakshmi article, which is still written in a Vaisnava format anyway.

    So I suppose if you control the Parikalpa--Vasana, you no longer imagine things about things, but are seeing how the process of Mirage works as a flow. That is probably quite highly important and relevant to what we would usually describe as First Void. Most religions as I understand them are enmeshed in this Pravritti, "forward into form", revel in the fact that some kind of Creator has "made stuff for us", whereas in philosophy, this is merely an incident and somewhat of a delusive agent, which is why Nirvritti or mental reversal of the process is of interest. "The Void" will spew stuff out of itself constantly, unless we can apply a set of brakes, and/or reposition it as a Dharmodaya, in which case we control what it makes.

    Hindus seem to depict Ushas in a simple form, I am sure they would likely cringe if someone said she has Six Arms. They never use this with rare exceptions such as Dattatreya, because he is a fusion of the Trinity, like Pratyangira--who still usually only has four.

    Perhaps you will get a type of tour on how Ushas gets six arms, and/or how our re-interpretation of her as Marici may fit.

    I was also wondering when you describe Mandarava for example as flying, does this mean the raised leg or both raised legs pose, or does she move by other means?

    It is possible in one of her retinues, Kurukulla may haul in the dawn or sun in some manner, but her main connections appear to be "born from Tara" and prequel to Hevajra Tantra. She does not pop up in a multitude of ways like Marici and Ekajati. So far, her six arm forms seem to be solo. She does have more independence than most other deities. It looks in the sadhanas like she has a trend of anchoring Karuna to Citta and that Emptiness Mantra is a huge conveyor of that.

    In one area, she has the biggest cluster of "citta" in the book, is the only one that really deals with Trailokyavijaya, and her Svadisthana 183 describes Emptiness Mantra as:

    tato dharmmapuḍgalayor grāhyagrāhakasvabhāvayor abhāva-
    svabhāvām advayavijñaptilakṣaṇāṃ śūnyatāṃ vibhāvya tanmantreṇādhi-
    tiṣṭhet - oṃ śūnyatājñānavajrasvabhāvātmako 'ham iti /

    That uses the two kinds of Nairatma, Dharma (selflessness of things) and Pudgala (selflessness of persons), and the expression for Grasper and Grasped.

    Her simplest thing is Bali Offering 190, which can be an external ritual, or, it can be done internally:

    gaṃ raṃ vaṃ yaṃ paṃ śaṃ caṃ ḍaṃ kurukulle sarvvaduṣṭān nāśaya
    nāśaya kīlaya kīlaya bhañjaya bhañjaya marddaya marddaya dhvaṃsaya
    dhvaṃsaya apasāraya apasāraya śāntiṃ me kuru puṣṭiṃ me kuru
    abhimataṃ me kuru sarvvasattvān vaśyaṃ me kuru hrīḥ svāhā /
    oṃ hrīṃ śrīṃ huṃ hoṃ haṃ hāḥ /

    // kurukullālā balividhiḥ //

    I would guess she does not really exist until you have some of the throat energy, but, she must go considerably beyond that, affecting the mind deeply. Her mandalas are almost frightening in their subtlety--at one point, she "doubles" Aparajita.


    marīci-jālai daśadiksthithān sarvvalokadhātūn avabhāsya

    I would take as Marici Jala pervades the ten directions in all worlds and dhatus with light (bhasya) coming from her/it.

    "Ava" prefix usually means "from, away, off of, down from", but it has more meanings when joined to verbs such as Lokita: determination, diffusion/pervasion, support, purification, commanding, or knowledge, so I am pretty sure Ava Lokita Isvara is still not "Lord looking down from on high", since the "from" meaning applies mainly to nouns.

    In that Diksthitha may have a more specific meaning in one of the schools, I did not know that. I think they are all teaching progressions of Samadhi. Some use different techniques because they have different goals, different methods of union and what is united to what. Regardless, it should all come in around 60-80% similarity to Buddhist Yoga, until a few of them can only be said to have "slight differences".

    One brief article explains Savitri as the Bindu, and then explains why Brahma is not really worshipped, and equates Brahma with Marici, "details of the worlds". It is a "state" where one should see "the Lord": This is the ViShNu aspect of the trimUrti. It corresponds to sthiti in the triad of sRShTi, sthiti and pralaya. It then rips Vaisnavas who deny Shiva; and, paradoxically, Sita Upanishad refers to her as consort of Shiva.

    Exactly how they tied Marici to Brahma, I am not sure; I did not know her name was used at all, outside of Buddhism. It would be meaningful if Marici was "only" the sun's ability to animate form, but I think our understanding of Marici, or Savitri or Usas, is above and beyond Surya or the visible sun of form. So we are still almost saying the same thing, just with a difficult game of musical chairs for the names. Any time you see an argument like this, there will be another that says it doesn't matter because it is all Vishnu.

    Ushas is certainly the main Vedic goddess, and, in just about all Asian cultures, is accepted as synonymous to Marici, although it is near impossible to chronicle the transition.
    Last edited by shaberon; 28th October 2020 at 04:40.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    These were a couple other things I noticed.

    In Sadhanamala, there are only a few instances of Cittamatra to be found. This is not necessarily "Mind-only" philosophy which Shentong would refute, it is a synonym for Vijnana Vada or Yogacara, meaning Yoga Practice. Chronologically, Shentong would be said to descend from Madhyamika Yogacara and Nirakara Vijnana Vada.

    Uddiyana 179 says:

    tad anu saṃsārasāgarapatita-
    sattvadhātūddharaṇarūpaṃ bodhicittaṃ bibhartti / tataś caturbrahmavihāraṃ
    bhāvayet / tad anu śūnyatābhāvanā / tatra cittamātram adhi-
    tiṣṭhed anena mantreṇa, - oṃ śūnyatājñānavajrasvabhāvātmako-
    'ham / iti cittādhiṣṭhānam /

    So she is saying Emptiness Mantra is Mind Isolation, which is the Consecration in her Cittamatra or Yoga Practice. There was Body Isolation of Buddha Family, then Speech Isolation mainly in Lotus Family and the Throat, and so now she is talking about the next phase, when Citta Chakra is involved with nectar penetrating it. Maybe that is the trick to Inverted Stupa. It is not a physical glyph, it is a Noumenal one. Citta Chakra is not what would physically look next, i. e. Heat from the Triangle rising in the body, it is a different state entirely, bodhicitta flowing from the Bindu, or, Head Bindu, etc., back downards to the heart.

    Allright, well, Kurukulla is suspiciously close to the Hum Hoh of Vajra Rosary here. I believe that is what the real Citta Chakra is. It is not simply having a good feeling of positive energy there. Yes that is part of it. But the subtle one of Yoga is something else entirely.

    Tarodbhava 171 has the heaviest repetition of "citta" in the book. She is:

    kurukullaparvate

    and she is evicting the five Skandhas with Five Offering Goddesses and Five Dance Goddesses:

    puṣpadhūpatathādīpagandhanaivedyasañcayaiḥ /
    lāsyamālyanṛtyagītavādyapūjādibhis tathā //

    Refuge in the Three Jewels:

    ratnatrayaṃ me śaraṇaṃ sarvaṃ pratidiśāmy agham /
    anumode jagatpuṇyaṃ buddhabodhau dadhe manaḥ /
    iti mantraṃ tridhā vācyaṃ tataḥ kṣantavyam ity api //
    tatreyaṃ gāthā -
    yat kṛtaṃ duṣkṛtaṃ kiñcit mayā mūḍhadhiyā punaḥ /
    kṣantavyaṃ tat tvayā devi yatas trātā'si dehinām //

    Cittas of the Four Brahmavihara:

    cittaṃ maitrī vihāre [ca] niveṣṭavyam punas tadā /
    karuṇācittam utpādyaṃ pramodicittam āvahet //
    paścād upekṣate sarvaṃ cittamātravyavasthayā /

    Citta of Void:

    cittaṃ śūnyaṃ tataḥ kuryāt prakṛtākārahānaye //
    śūnyatāvāhinā dagdhā pañcaskandhāḥ punar bhavāḥ /
    [paṭhitvā] oṃ śūnyatājñānavajrasvabhāvātmako 'ham //
    muhūrtaṃ śūnyatāyogaṃ kuryāt cittasya viśramam /
    pratijñāṃ prāktanīṃ smṛtvā bījamātraṃ punaḥ smaret //
    pratāritā mayā sattvā ekāntaparinirvṛtāḥ /
    kathaṃ tān uddhariṣyāmi agādhād bhavasāgarāt //
    iti sattvakṛpāviṣṭo niśceṣṭāṃ śūnyatāṃ tyajet /
    dharmadhātumayaṃ cittam utpādayati cetasā //

    Ending with a Dharmadhatu Maya Citta.


    Although I cannot really ascertain the origin of "Marici" as a Buddhist name of Savitri, they are close enough in meaning and, I think, to say that Ushas, at worst, is simply an older name wherein perhaps the Brahman caste hid the idea she was also the potential in darkness.

    We can say that "under" Surya, there are two Samjnas, and that his sheared-off rays are likely the brilliance of Tapas as intended by Vairocani who happens to be mixed-up in the ancestry.

    We would say there are Two Fires, a Seven Ray manifestation characterized by Marici, and a transcendental Three-in-One characterized by Agni.

    Savitri's Vyahriti or Words of Fire are the names of the planes in chanting form. "Bhur" = Bhu, and so on, except the last works differently:

    Om Bhur, Om Bhuvar, Om Svahar, Om Mahar, Om Janar, Om Tapar, Om Satyam

    Mahar = Maha Loka = Mahabharata = Kama Loka.

    Above this is Jana = Manasic or Akashic plane, Tapa which I believe is Tapas is the Buddhic plane, and Satya is the Atmic Plane, which means Prime Motion, Great Breath which does not cease even in Pralaya.

    So I have not differentiated the Hindu versions from our Marici, and, it is the sneakiest boomerang return possible, to employ Puranic Vairocani.

    I cannot really say Ushas "is" Marici, I just cannot distinguish them. If I honored Marici in the fullest way I know, it would evolve into an Agni Homa. One could perhaps argue that the real, self-arisen Marici requires Bhutadamara, or, its equivalent, Trailokyavijaya Mudra. It would probably take her samaya being, and this equivalent force.

    It would not be a different "source" than Ushas, it would be different mantras and so on.

    I am not sure why Marici would be part of Brahma; but Vairocana is Brahma, who "is not worshipped". He appears to be at first, then moves into the Earth plane, and other things happen, until he arises as Maha Vajradhatu, which means full Sambhogakaya. Marici is mainly related to Vairocana.

    Vairocana has sort of stuffed the visible sun into the physical body. There is a bit more to it, but, this is the "Entrance to Nirvana", sort of like Sambhogakaya is the Exit.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Hindus seem to depict Ushas in a simple form, I am sure they would likely cringe if someone said she has Six Arms. They never use this with rare exceptions such as Dattatreya, because he is a fusion of the Trinity, like Pratyangira--who still usually only has four.

    Perhaps you will get a type of tour on how Ushas gets six arms, and/or how our re-interpretation of her as Marici may fit.
    She has had two pretty much the whole time. It was the one eventually identified as Cunda who had the six arms. The thing that is very incompatible of her is that until she did the whole thing with Kurukulla and appeared in front of me, she had always been in Vajrayana holding and pulling thread with a face that had the Buddha's "noble silence" smile. I know this very well because when she held and did not move (just held the thread still) she would push my face into that face. She still does that.

    Quote I was also wondering when you describe Mandarava for example as flying, does this mean the raised leg or both raised legs pose, or does she move by other means?
    Both, I had been identifying the one raised leg as her pose and the other leg raised behind as her "full" pose in my notes. I am sure there is a reason why she uses one or the other, but I have not discerned it yet.

    Quote To take an illustration from the beginning of the Bṛhadāranyaka we find that instead of the actual performance of the horse sacrifice (aśvamedha) there are directions for meditating upon the dawn (Uṣas) as the head of the horse, the sun as the eye of the horse, the air as its life, and so on.
    The two of them worked on my neck and throat before she did the appearance in front of me. The neck part is very much "leathery" and has horse connections, so much so that I went on a long side thing looking for connections to Hayagriva.

    I'm not surprised that Kurukulla and Ushas have no connection in the literature. The connection in my neck is that they both have some claims over the jewel at my throat which is part of the net. Ushas spins the threads that go between the jewels. Kurukulla seems more directly connected to the jewel.
    Quote I would guess she does not really exist until you have some of the throat energy, but, she must go considerably beyond that, affecting the mind deeply. Her mandalas are almost frightening in their subtlety--at one point, she "doubles" Aparajita.
    She usually marshals my whole body, often with a movement that I described in my notes as a cross between the Wave Hands Like Clouds from Taijiquan and the entry into the crane position in Changquan. Big circular sweeps ending in a drawn bow. Once she pushes from within her position the throat at the jewel pushes out and glows.

    Quote I would take as Marici Jala pervades the ten directions in all worlds and dhatus with light (bhasya) coming from her/it.

    "Ava" prefix usually means "from, away, off of, down from", but it has more meanings when joined to verbs such as Lokita: determination, diffusion/pervasion, support, purification, commanding, or knowledge, so I am pretty sure Ava Lokita Isvara is still not "Lord looking down from on high", since the "from" meaning applies mainly to nouns.
    My dictionary takes the whole construct as "to be illumined" in the infinitive like that. I did not know quite what to make of it.

    Quote In that Diksthitha may have a more specific meaning in one of the schools, I did not know that. I think they are all teaching progressions of Samadhi. Some use different techniques because they have different goals, different methods of union and what is united to what. Regardless, it should all come in around 60-80% similarity to Buddhist Yoga, until a few of them can only be said to have "slight differences".
    I can only add one thing to this, coming from asking someone with some Sanskrit background and native in some modern Indian languages -- they say Diksthitha is the Sanskrit word from which the modern words "to see" are derived, e.g. dekna in modern Hindi.
    Quote One brief article explains Savitri as the Bindu,...
    I wonder why I saw them upside down from this, the bindu below the chandra.

    This is out of order, but about her being the dawn and not the time before -- she rises in the dark of night and puts on her clothes (which are somehow related to the net of color she throws out before riding out as the dawn).

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote kurukullaparvate
    Kurukulla born of the mountains?

    Quote Although I cannot really ascertain the origin of "Marici" as a Buddhist name of Savitri, they are close enough in meaning and, I think, to say that Ushas, at worst, is simply an older name wherein perhaps the Brahman caste hid the idea she was also the potential in darkness.
    I had read that she "works with Savitri" as if it is something she uses in her work to create the dawn. I have also read that she weaves the dawn.

    Quote I cannot really say Ushas "is" Marici, I just cannot distinguish them. If I honored Marici in the fullest way I know, it would evolve into an Agni Homa. One could perhaps argue that the real, self-arisen Marici requires Bhutadamara, or, its equivalent, Trailokyavijaya Mudra. It would probably take her samaya being, and this equivalent force.
    There's some reason why she preferred that name, and it is possibly related to throwing off a being made of sandstone (which looked like a cubist interpretation of The Thing from Fantastic Four) which was restraining either her or my ability to see her.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    The neck part is very much "leathery" and has horse connections, so much so that I went on a long side thing looking for connections to Hayagriva.
    In Hayagriva I believe we have hidden the Aswins.

    Horse Sacrifice is one thing that used to be literal that was changed somewhere around Yajnawalkya's time--but by Horse Head Rite this means the secret of getting the Nectar of Immortality from Tvastr who is or who chiefly operates as Viswakarman in the Second Kama Loka or Heaven of Thirty-three.

    That one seems obviously important in an occult sense, but, how are you going to get there?

    First there are Four Kings watching the material world, and, what does one do about Kubera?

    Is he not a bit related to Sri Venkateswara who receives lakhs of donations every day resulting in a governmental inquiry as to when his debt could possibly be paid?

    I believe that by having him Oath-bound it means the Buddhist Yoga will work on him and there is not that much to it.

    Hayagriva is firstly very loud and secondly is probably a Teevra Devata or akin to Kilaya. Probably Rajas of Rajas. Not one that has a friendly daily chant like Manjushri. I really just...I watch it when saying anything about him. If I was making a list of things that I would suggest people not just pick up the books and personally attempt, Hayagriva would be part of that.

    It is a very outright Wrathful Lotus presence which seems a bit mind-boggling compared to what we usually think of as Karuna.



    Quote I'm not surprised that Kurukulla and Ushas have no connection in the literature. The connection in my neck is that they both have some claims over the jewel at my throat which is part of the net. Ushas spins the threads that go between the jewels. Kurukulla seems more directly connected to the jewel.
    Sounds reasonable. The solar and/or Vairocani aspect "may" be thought of as vertical rays like sun rays, penetrating Varnani the woof or layers the rays permeate. Perhaps even better, you can internalize that, one is supposed to have some kind of inner light.



    Parvate appears as an individual word with Janguli, as well as conjoined to Kurukulla.

    As a noun, this appears to say, "Kurukulla resides on Kurukulla Mountain":

    kurukullaparvatasthitakurukullāṃ

    her other phrase was:

    sahādidhātukaṃ śodhya kurukullaparvate gatām //

    Saha and other Dhatus are Purified by Her Completely

    Or, as Koothoomi actually wrote, Saha Loka Dhatu:

    Also called the Saha World. It refers to the land on Earth. Saha interprets as bearing and enduring. Saha Land is contrary to Pure Land. It is a place of good and evil. A universe where all are subjected to transmigration and in which a Buddha transforms.

    I am not sure whether she is Kurukulla Mountain Daughter, or Kurukulla Parvati. Because Janguli has Parvati as well as Mahayogeshvari, it is another title of Shiva's wife, I cannot say much other than she was portrayed as a Yogini or Nirmanakaya, and maybe she became fully realized within Parvati. Like others "became" Jnana Dakini or Varahi. Tulkus are not Avatars. They have a beginning, and when they reincarnate, there is always a new struggle of that person realizing the Bodhi mind that is strongly connected to them. In rare cases very young children can do it. In other cases, it is not even certain the personality ever really connects deep enough to their Klista Manas or continuity-of-consciousness to really represent the Bodhisattva at all.

    Those deities are stable with Akanistha as their lowest emanation. Anything else is their ability to reflect into the world by successful disciples.

    Kurukulla is doing Body Isolation, and yes circular motion torquing into a drawn bow makes sense. Like a vortex or drill. It sounds like you are talking about one big one, which would "gear down" something like 10,000 to one to affect mostly one point.

    It is like you have One, and then you have an Assembly, of these torquing motors.

    I do not use a big one very often, but they are in my palms and soles most of the time.

    I would not be able to "aim" it as precisely as what Kurukulla is doing here. It is like finding something in a distant telescope, and stacking magnifying lenses until you get it big enough.



    Quote This is out of order, but about her being the dawn and not the time before -- she rises in the dark of night and puts on her clothes (which are somehow related to the net of color she throws out before riding out as the dawn).
    That is interesting because it sounds like an "Unstruck Color" similar to Unstruck Sound.

    If Marici "works with" someone, then it sounds like she is the Noumenal aspect of Shakti power. She may have to, since nothing has ever said she comes lower than Akanistha. She has samaya beings, but, I am not sure they really express solar power as such.

    The closest I can come is if I press the inquiry that Suci--Needle is the same name of Suci--Agni Solar Fire.

    I would still ask about the Needle as the Avadhut as well.

    But you are perceiving it as Ushas perhaps related to Cunda.

    It sounds perfectly clear. We want to give her...dark quiet side...a type of continuity through her Three Times, i. e. Dawn, Noon, and Evening. I believe this is called Maturity, She has to have Protection and so forth and her colors will Ripen. Three Face Vasudhara is doing the same thing. If Vajravarahi "is a form of" Marici, and, she is also an aspect of Bhu--Vasudhara, and yellow, red, and orange faces can help us keep this together, the relation seems pretty evident.

    This is while still saying that the syllable Hum is the universal solar Om radiance transmitted through a manifested individual and reflected from the Underworld.



    Manjushri--Prajnaparamita had a puzzling term, Dhihsthitha.

    I wonder if the recent word also meanig "to see", etc., is perhaps the compound Diksa Sthita? Place or residence of initiation. That was kind of the sense I got from Dhihsthitha.

    Mandarava is usually not, but "is allowed to be shown" in raised-foot pose according to the Himalayan Art site.

    In our heritage there are hardly any "two feet up" besides Maitri Dakini. This one seems more highly adjoined to the, I suppose you could say, progressive elements of Vajrayogini, closer to Cinnamasta. Also Maitri used a focused basket of sadhanas using a form of Seven Syllable deity as well as Vajramrita.

    I would expect Mandarava not to have any difficulty with the equivalent realization of Maitri Dakini even if someone were to argue the sadhana was not composed until two centuries after her. I do not see that as a barrier.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Hayagriva is firstly very loud and secondly is probably a Teevra Devata or akin to Kilaya. Probably Rajas of Rajas. Not one that has a friendly daily chant like Manjushri. I really just...I watch it when saying anything about him. If I was making a list of things that I would suggest people not just pick up the books and personally attempt, Hayagriva would be part of that
    .

    I had kind of given up on him being a part of things, the leathery thing does feel like a horse shaking its mane, but it serves an entirely different purpose which is to make the skin and muscles of my neck turn clear like glass.

    Quote I am not sure whether she is Kurukulla Mountain Daughter, or Kurukulla Parvati.
    Either works for me, I just had not thought she had a connection to mountains.

    Quote Kurukulla is doing Body Isolation, and yes circular motion torquing into a drawn bow makes sense. Like a vortex or drill. It sounds like you are talking about one big one, which would "gear down" something like 10,000 to one to affect mostly one point.

    It is like you have One, and then you have an Assembly, of these torquing motors.
    Earlier in life I did practice the crane pose a lot, and the Wave Hands Like Clouds is something I do whenever, sort of. So there isn't a big problem with accuracy for me, they are part of muscle memory. Or maybe this move is the underlying memory that they are part of, it would be hard to tell.
    Quote That is interesting because it sounds like an "Unstruck Color" similar to Unstruck Sound.

    If Marici "works with" someone, then it sounds like she is the Noumenal aspect of Shakti power. She may have to, since nothing has ever said she comes lower than Akanistha. She has samaya beings, but, I am not sure they really express solar power as such.

    The closest I can come is if I press the inquiry that Suci--Needle is the same name of Suci--Agni Solar Fire.

    I would still ask about the Needle as the Avadhut as well.

    But you are perceiving it as Ushas perhaps related to Cunda.

    It sounds perfectly clear. We want to give her...dark quiet side...a type of continuity through her Three Times, i. e. Dawn, Noon, and Evening. I believe this is called Maturity, She has to have Protection and so forth and her colors will Ripen. Three Face Vasudhara is doing the same thing. If Vajravarahi "is a form of" Marici, and, she is also an aspect of Bhu--Vasudhara, and yellow, red, and orange faces can help us keep this together, the relation seems pretty evident.
    The maturity thing is definitely right -- she mourns previous dawns, and originally was only spoken of in plural, and apparently she thinks wistfully of those among men who watched each dawn now that they (the men) are dead and gone.

    I found this site which has a complete set of translations of all the hymns to Ushas in the Rig Veda.

    She doesn't have a dark part, when she first takes to the sky, she walks hand in hand with her sister, Ratri (night), and that is how the dark and light combine. The first rays of light come from her breasts, like milk from cows.

    The pic at the site is a little odd, it is Hayagriva and Ushas, and has something to do with Hayagriva freeing Brahman, I am unfamiliar with the myth referenced.
    Quote This is while still saying that the syllable Hum is the universal solar Om radiance transmitted through a manifested individual and reflected from the Underworld.
    Sigh. The Underworld. I just spent some hours last night burning on a funeral pyre. Here are the relevant notes, the idea that I was "burning and dripping" occurred to me at points, I spent slightly more than an hour afterwards with my skin burning so bad that it felt like each individual hair on my torso was a point of scratching and pain.

    Quote I was now myself and inside myself, and I was in a space that was long and possibly cylindrical like a corridor or a tunnel and this shape around me was heating me and burning me. At this point my vision and my sense of self – both becoming problematic because there was nothing “body” about the shapes I was apparently incorporated – split and were both entirely separate and simultaneously “superimposed” and part of the same scene. One vision and incorporation was of something like red and brown burning wood, except that the red did not appear to be glow, and I tried repeatedly to see if it was glow, but in shapes longer than wide breaking the way wood breaks with sharp edges and splinters, and then recombining into other wood and breaking and moving and turning again and again like a large space of short thick wood beams with red in them where they should be glowing because they very much were burning – as in hot to the touch – but the color of the glow was off and didn’t make sense. As they churned and splintered and burned, my body, mostly if not entirely my clear body but with some connections back so not completely, was moving and thrusting and shoving – arms and legs now flailing but still in the same thrust into the lute repeatedly but unable to be observed because I was this burning wood and the movements of the wood fit perfectly with the movements of my clear body.
    The other vision of myself, superimposed and also very strong and clear, was as a sort of grimy distillate in a bowl that was invisible, the bowl shape being the “boundary” between the two visions. The liquid was clear with a black layer that floated inside the clear oily liquid like a charred colloidal layer. As the wood visioned burned, more of the distillate would drip from it into this bowl shape but the two were not arranged in the two visions as one dripping into the other, rather they were superimposed and distinct visions. In the brown world of the red and brown wood, I was burning quite suredly but also thrusting in the cast iron vision of my clear body in the lute, in the invisible bowl world of the oily distillate someone, who was also me but was a manifestation or embodiment of one or more Dakinis, was swirling the oily drippings looking for a pearl or a bead or some other indication that I had been a saint – in other words, this was a funeral pyre and we were in a charnel grounds looking for relics of my existence as I burned away to nothing. This continued, both all-consuming bliss feeling and blistering feelings of burning and dripping away to nothing, for quite some time and then there was somebody (all the somebodies were at once Dakinis and me, my “boundaries” weren’t there for most of the funeral) with a huge, long pair of chopsticks dipping into the bowl of hot oil and char and pulling out “pieces” and setting them to “drain” in front of me like bacon. These “pieces” were each one of the police outline drawing bodies of – again -- me, all of them came out dark and dripping and all of them drained and dried to the outline bodies completely covered, cocooned with maybe these drawing shapes being the cocoons, with whitish, bluish, and purplish sparks and lightning.
    After this went on for some time, I focused in on one of the sparky cocoons and then my crown point pulled my neck very straight and pulled the jewel at my throat in and upwards under and I “internalized” the sparky cocoon as the same color sparks descending through my ribcage from a source in my throat and head near but under and above the root of my tongue, descending in garland like streams to form a tent shape going into a cylinder of sparks down along my centerline through my ribcage to the bottom of it and dripping into a large body of water that was my abdomen at this point.
    The Dakinis were sifting through the greasy remains to look for relics (the jewels or drops) and as far as I know, didn't find any.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    I had kind of given up on him being a part of things, the leathery thing does feel like a horse shaking its mane, but it serves an entirely different purpose which is to make the skin and muscles of my neck turn clear like glass.
    I would not expect he has much to do with the neck per se--more like Cinnamasta.

    Hayagriva is special to Sera Monastery.

    He appears in the upper echelon of many retinues, such as, at least one version of Book of the Dead says for the Heart, which has its own set of Gatekeepers--Males and Females in Union--these are Achala-Ankusha, Yamantaka-Pasha, Hayagriva-Shrinkhala, and Amritakundali-Ghanta. These are doing the Four Activities, Hook, Noose, Chain, and Bell.



    In Mahavairocana Abhisambodhi Tantra, Buddha says we should do the Fierce Rites on the 8th or 14th day of the New Moon with Saturn or Mars in the Lunar Mansions Hasta, Citra, Asvini, Uttara-phalguni, Punar-vasu, Svati.

    One becomes Vajrasattva, takes possession of the rite with Acala, and becomes Vairocana. Then crafts the mandala, placing Ha, which becomes Trilokyavijaya.

    Yama becomes his spear, replacing Akasha-garbha. Other elements transmute into the Axe, Aparajita; Amogha-pasha, Ekajati, Hayagriva as Noose, Axe, Mace replacing Tara, Candra-tilaka is the Vajra, Yama + Kalaratri replace the Pure Abode, Nirtti is the Sword.

    One then becomes Vajrapani, makes offerings, and then becomes Maha Vairocana. A Wind mandala with Hum is placed at the hearth. Hum becomes Agni whose body image is Acala. Offer to Agni and invoke: Om Agnaye Jati Trat Hum Phat. After ritual procedures establishing Agni, one brings back the tutelary deity and purifies with bodhichitta. Wrathful fires of Agni are thus available to one's ordinary Yi-dam Lha on an everyday basis instead of just the special occasions.

    He specifically says Kalaratri replaces the Pure Lands that would be used in a Peaceful rite.

    That is why I keep calling her Sambhogakaya Sister. She obviously does not represent it in terms we normally think. She is like an equivalent energy on a dark and wrathful basis.

    As to what has been called Body Isolation and the rest:

    In Mahayoga, the five transcendent sadhanas are Manjushri Yamantaka (enlightened form), Padma Hayagriva (enlightened speech), Visuddha (enlightened mind), Vajramrta Mahottara (enlightened qualities), and Vajrakllaya (enlightened activity).

    Vajrapani can emit Hayagriva and Garuda.

    Hayagriva's consort is usually thought of as Vajravarahi or perhaps Vetali.

    In trying to sort the "jumble of legend":

    Konchog Bang is a Tibetan name of an Indian king ca. 9th-10th century, influenced by Vimala Guru and Guhyajnana Dakini (White with a drum). This Dakini is also Hayagriva's consort, and appears with Jinasagara Avalokiteshvara, wherein sometimes Guru Rinpoche is replaced by an Indian tantrika named Siddhirajni (Machig Drupa'i Gyalmo), a Niguma-like figure, Red with a drum. Both Dakini and Guru may be Red or White. Hers is not even a name, but a title, "Sole Mother Queen of the Siddhas", which was given to Mandarava. She was a teacher of Rechung, the founder of Shangpa.

    Tiphupa was another teacher of Rechung and gave the Kagyu lineage the "nine-fold cycle of the formless Dakinis". Siddharajni's only biography is in that of Rechung. Tiphupa composed a song to her. He calls her Vajravarahi, Vajrayogini, and Pandaravasini and says she met Vajradhara, Chakrasamvara, Avalokiteshvara, Hayagriva, all the dakinis of the sacred sites, and Simhamukha. She has a skullcup and knife. She is also shown with dorje, bell, and third eye. She transmitted the Padmanarta--Guhyajnana meditation, wherein the Four Arm form is the beginning and Two Arm is secret practice. She calls the fact that anger is baseless, Hayagriva, and that desire has no root, Ghuyajnana.

    It just does not look chronologically that Mandarava was in the same era as Rechung. It does seem to be accepted that Niguma was a Mandarava incarnation. Perhaps that is who they are talking about. Siddharajni is both of them and others.

    Ocean Victor Avalokiteshvara personally contains Hayagriva and Guhyajnana.

    It is explained fairly well in Lord of the Dance about the Mani Rimdu festival. Jinasagara Avalokiteshvara is Lord of the Dance, he contains Hayagriva, who contains Contemplation Hero. Around them are Four Dakas, and the gates have four female Tramenma or animal-headed deities--the Four Activities. Six Syllable Avalokiteshvara as a Karmapa Yidam introduced by Rechung, is lord of the dance of compassion or incarnation, and has nothing inherently to do with a dance festival. In Nepal, he is Padmanartesvara. He tosses a syllable of his mantra into each of the six realms, preventing rebirth there. In this sadhana, Guhyajnana is Avalokiteshvara's consort. Hayagriva has an unnamed light red one with two hands holding knife and skull.

    Nagarjuna's Khadira Tara lineage went to First Karmapa Dusum Khyenpa. His sadhana set was Tara, Hayagriva, Vajravarahi, Chakrasamvara and Hevajra. The transmission lineage for all except the last one are still extant in the Kamtsang tradition. This tantra has always held a special place in the Kamtsang Kagyu tradition; it was transmitted from Nagarjuna, through one of his four principal disciples, Nagabodhi, in an unbroken transmission until it became part of the Kamtsang lineage of realisation at the time of Karmapa Wangchuk Dorje.

    Vajravarahi is Tara who became Vajravarahi when Chenrezig became Tamdrin, "Horse neck" (Hayagriva), to defeat Matrankaru, and they succeeded with their horse and pig voices without violence. She is Sera Kandro and Indra Dakini. All brides are "potential Vajravarahi", i. e. potential unlocking of the powers of the male. This story was originally reported by Sarat Chandra Das. It has to do with Mahakala and Samding Dorje Phagmo.

    That actually says Avalokiteshvara's consort Tara (Pandara) becomes Vajravarahi. So there must be one Varahi in Lotus Family. The main two Lotus Wrathfuls are Hayagriva and Vajravarahi Cintamani.


    As for the Hindu original, he defeated two Rakshashas who had stolen the Vedas from Brahma, very short and simple event prior to times of incarnation. Brahma himself was saved by doing Tapas.

    Matangi's Thousand Names is the only one of its kind which does not repeat anything; it is a dialogue between Hayagriva and Agastya in Brahmanda Purana. All others were collected by Vyasa, this is the only one delivered by Vach Devis.

    There is not much to Hindu Hayagriva unless we think in terms of Horse Head rite. It is not about him, but, as to the symbol, it probably is.




    Quote She doesn't have a dark part, when she first takes to the sky, she walks hand in hand with her sister, Ratri (night), and that is how the dark and light combine. The first rays of light come from her breasts, like milk from cows.

    I cannot think of anything that shows her darkly except Picuva Marici's main face.

    I suppose it is just a metaphysical definition that her potential exists during times of darkness or un-manifestation, just as there is still night when the sun is shining on us.

    Dharmadhatu is the Source of All Phenomena--Nirvana and Samsara.

    In Shentong we weave between all those extremes.

    I have never seen any type of dawn deity other than illumination of light. Meaning Astral Light and then that intended by Gnosis. I have certainly experienced light not produced by physical means.

    The report does sound the least bit like Vajradakini getting through to Bharati as the last part:

    "...my crown point pulled my neck very straight and pulled the jewel at my throat in and upwards under and I “internalized” the sparky cocoon as the same color sparks descending through my ribcage from a source in my throat and head near but under and above the root of my tongue, descending in garland like streams to form a tent shape going into a cylinder of sparks down along my centerline through my ribcage to the bottom of it and dripping into a large body of water that was my abdomen at this point."

    Water is not quite the substance sought by the sadhana, but at least it sounds like a cool liquid. More drips should probably change it.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Rechung was in the 1100s, so could not conceivably been a disciple of Mandarava.

    The Formless Dakini teachings of his are insisted by critics to properly be named Bodyless Dakini, and that it is mainly a metaphor for the Dharmakaya. Classically, Bodyless would be Videha and also refer to Kama Deva/Ananga.

    Rechung is part of the Whispered Lineage which in Tibetan is Nyan Gyud, or otherwise Karna Tantra, as seen in a Vajrasattva article, stating that Vajrasattva tantra was established prior to Guhyasamaja, and that it "is" Nyingma tantra, or, he really is the primary Yidam in Guhyagarbha or Vajrasattva Maya Jala.

    There are two published streams on the subject:

    Secret Dakini of Naro is the Pabonkha version.

    Bodyless Dakini is the Drukpa version.

    The Drukpa version is passed through the somewhat famous story of Tilo, and Marpa, in a complicated way with Tiphu.

    A description of the Bodyless version specifies the wisdom dakinis are not involved with samsaric delusion, and:

    The Thorough Explanation commentary in this book mentions a number of them as it carefully identifies the Bodyless Dakini. The names of these various forms of Vajrayogini might not be well-know to non-Tibetan readers but they are all well-known within Tibetan tradition. There is another form of Vajrayogini who is mentioned frequently in this book. She has a small sow's head on her head. "Sow" in Sanskrit is "varahi" so this form of Vajrayogini is called "Vajravarahi". Pigs are symbols of ignorance and the sow's head of Vajravarahi is a symbol of vajra ignorance. In this case, the sow does not represent that the ignorance of samsara per se has been overcome but represents the vajra ignorance of reality. Vajravarahi is regarded as the inner aspect of the more general Vajrayogini, an aspect which is more closely connected with both sambhoga and dharmakayas. The Bodyless Dakini is similar to Vajravarahi in this respect but not the same. Vajravarahi is part of the general iconography of Vajrayogini where the Bodyless Dakini is a specific form of Vajrayogini used for practice. Vajravarahi is often used as a personification of the female aspect of reality and in this book she is mostly used in that sense. For example, Tilopa received many teachings from ultimate space in both male and female aspects. He received the Chakrasamvara teachings from Chakrasamvara as the male embodiment of the ultimate space and the vajradakini teachings from Vajravarahi as the female embodiment of that space. In this book, Vajravarahi mostly refers to that kind of embodiment functioning as a teacher.

    Pabonkha's version is a Gelug overhaul of the Thirteen Golden Dharmas of Sakya with Naro Dakini, Kurukulla, Bharati, etc.

    Here is a segment of Five Dakinis Offering in Vajradhara Guru Yoga which adds mandala components; Videha is one of the terms use in describing the surroundings of Mt. Meru. So, mnemonically at the very least, this term is already tied in. I believe it is ok to start thinking about the "parts" as shown here. A full mandala is built and then populated. I think it is fine if we are just asking Guru to help us figure out the bulwark.

    There is very little that is directly said about a Dharmakaya Vajrayogini, or the Citta Chakra.

    Vajrayogini Commentary by H. E. Serkong Rinpoche is quite good and describes it this way:



    When the body of the BAM dissolves to the top line of the letter, imagine that you
    experience the mirage-like vision that happens at the time of death. When the line
    dissolves to the moon, imagine that you are having the smoke-like vision, and think that
    the mirage-like appearance has ceased and the spark-like experience will come next.
    When the moon dissolves to the dot, feel that you are experiencing the spark-like vision,
    and think that previously there was the smoke vision and subsequently there will be the
    butter lamp vision. When the dot dissolves into the nada, imagine experiencing the butter
    lamp vision and think that previously there was the spark vision and afterwards there will
    be the white vision. If we were actually dying, at this point we would no longer be
    breathing. The squiggle has three curves. When the bottom of the squiggle dissolves up
    to the first curve, there is the white vision. When the squiggle dissolves from the first to
    the second curve, there is the red vision. When it dissolves up to the third curve, there is
    the black vision. When the tiny tip which is left at the black vision finally disappears,
    there is the clear light experience.

    Again, think:

    1. It is the clear light with no appearance. Everything is bare and void.

    2. This is not ordinary bareness or voidness, but it is voidness of true existence. The
    aggregates and the I do not exist as one or many; therefore, the I is void of
    existing from its own side. This absence of appearance is the voidness of true
    existence.

    3. The consciousness which experiences this is the consciousness of great bliss.

    4. This consciousness of great bliss and the voidness which is its object are
    inseparable, like water mixed in water. In this consciousness of great bliss, which
    is inseparable from its object, voidness, set the dignity of the Dharmakaya. This
    is taking death as the pathway to the Dharmakaya.

    After experiencing the clear light of death, the energy wind becomes grosser and you
    immediately achieve the bardo. If you are going to be reborn as a human being, the bardo
    body achieved under the power of delusion and karma is the same shape and form as the
    human body you will have. What purifies this or eliminates experiencing the bardo under
    the force of delusion and karma are the pathways of the complete stage of the impure and
    pure illusory body. What will ripen into the ability to attain this on the complete stage are
    the practices on the generation stage which are similar to the actual bardo. The way the
    bardo is attained is that the subtlest consciousness acts as the simultaneously occurring
    condition for the attainment of the bardo and the finest energy wind which is the vehicle
    of the finest consciousness is the material cause for the attainment of the bardo.

    To take death as the pathway to the Dharmakaya, in the generation stage you dissolve
    everything into the clear light. This is artificial, by intellect or names, because it is
    imagined by visualization. Within the sphere of the clear light of voidness, one should
    wish to benefit other sentient beings and so one develops the wish to arise as the
    sambhogakaya. Rather than going from death to bardo, you want to go to the
    sambhogakaya. The finest consciousness which has the understanding of the
    inseparability of voidness and bliss is the simultaneously occurring cause and the material
    cause from which the sambhogakaya is actualized (instead of actualizing the bardo body)
    is the finest energy wind which is inseparable from the finest consciousness. In the
    generation stage, one imagines arising from the clear light as a red BAM which rises and
    is positioned vertically in air. On this red BAM set the dignity “I am the sambhogakaya.”

    He has about fifty pages in this explanation, which is fairly direct, explaining how this meditation is death-like in practice, and also applies at the time of death.

    So the Sow is really ignorance about this. It is not about ordinary life at all.

    Perhaps it is becoming obvious why I hold her in reticent esteem.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote This Dakini is also Hayagriva's consort, and appears with Jinasagara Avalokiteshvara, wherein sometimes Guru Rinpoche is replaced by an Indian tantrika named Siddhirajni (Machig Drupa'i Gyalmo), a Niguma-like figure, Red with a drum. Both Dakini and Guru may be Red or White. Hers is not even a name, but a title, "Sole Mother Queen of the Siddhas", which was given to Mandarava. She was a teacher of Rechung, the founder of Shangpa.
    Machig Drupa'i Gyalmo is Mandarava's title, Padmasambhava uses it in some texts. Red doesn't sound like Niguma who is almost unerringly brown -- thought to have been browned by living in the charnel grounds. Interesting if that is who Siddharajni refers to. She is supposed to appear, embody, incarnate or otherwise teach when people with an affinity for siddhis need to be drawn to the Dharma.

    Quote It just does not look chronologically that Mandarava was in the same era as Rechung. It does seem to be accepted that Niguma was a Mandarava incarnation. Perhaps that is who they are talking about. Siddharajni is both of them and others.
    Mandarava was 7th century. Niguma, it's possible but she would have been very old, she is Naro's sister. Agreed she is a Mandarava incarnation.

    Quote Vajravarahi is Tara who became Vajravarahi when Chenrezig became Tamdrin, "Horse neck" (Hayagriva), to defeat Matrankaru, and they succeeded with their horse and pig voices without violence.
    This is why I kind of gave up on Hayagriva, my neck never does this -- the only voice I have emitted is that of an eagle, not a horse. It is silent, but birds in the yard appear to be able to hear it somehow.

    Quote Water is not quite the substance sought by the sadhana, but at least it sounds like a cool liquid. More drips should probably change it.
    Those were paragraphs out of the notes, not the whole notes, sorry to give a wrong impression. What happens after that is that this dripping/sparking allows enough of a human body (my clear body in this case) to form that the Dakinis can identify (as in the para, they are already there, they are going through the greasy remains of me), I remain on fire for quite a while after. They are: Kurukulla -- when she pressed me downward into her form in detail, I am already "red" from burning and I just completely press into her, fangs and all. Ekajati goes next and she changes the flow, the pool of water pushing it upward and setting it on fire again. Followed by Ushas, who starts a sequence of "handoffs", she hands me off to Cunda, who hands me off to Samantabhadri, these smooth things so that the downward flow, still all lightning and sparks, becomes like hot wax gushing over from a candle. I spend the next hour burning up in my physical body to the point where my skin on fire makes all the hairs on my torso painful as they scratch against it -- really physically hot, all over but mostly my torso and neck. I have by that time learned to start the downward spark flow, this is my only defense against the burning. After the hour, the downward flow has become more sapphire and gold in color, it is coming from Samantabhadri, it is not water it is bliss, and she finally ends the burning in sapphire and gold bliss dripping down from her dance (coitus) at my throat.

    The burning was excruciating. I even got up once to see if that would stop it, but I had to "re-enter" and finish things up with her to end it.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Rechung is part of the Whispered Lineage which in Tibetan is Nyan Gyud, or otherwise Karna Tantra, as seen in a Vajrasattva article, stating that Vajrasattva tantra was established prior to Guhyasamaja, and that it "is" Nyingma tantra, or, he really is the primary Yidam in Guhyagarbha or Vajrasattva Maya Jala.

    There are two published streams on the subject:

    Secret Dakini of Naro is the Pabonkha version.

    Bodyless Dakini is the Drukpa version.

    The Drukpa version is passed through the somewhat famous story of Tilo, and Marpa, in a complicated way with Tiphu.

    A description of the Bodyless version specifies the wisdom dakinis are not involved with samsaric delusion, and:
    Thanks for these resources, all good.

    Quote When the line
    dissolves to the moon, imagine that you are having the smoke-like vision, and think that
    the mirage-like appearance has ceased and the spark-like experience will come next.
    When the moon dissolves to the dot, feel that you are experiencing the spark-like vision,
    and think that previously there was the smoke vision and subsequently there will be the
    butter lamp vision.
    This is eerie in the order of appearance of things and the ending of the burning.

    Quote The finest consciousness which has the understanding of the
    inseparability of voidness and bliss is the simultaneously occurring cause and the material
    cause from which the sambhogakaya is actualized (instead of actualizing the bardo body)
    is the finest energy wind which is inseparable from the finest consciousness. In the
    generation stage, one imagines arising from the clear light as a red BAM which rises and
    is positioned vertically in air. On this red BAM set the dignity “I am the sambhogakaya.”
    Again, this is very eerie. I will try to get time to read the whole thing.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Again, this is very eerie.
    Yes, but what is today?

    That sublime part of the Dharma that is exquisite is even more precious if you look outside its circle of protection, nothing but insanity and death lurks out there.

    Death, per se, as in the event or the karma or what happens and why, is more like the Maras. We do intend to mentally overwhelm the ignorant and destructive forces which lead to diseases and horrible fates.

    It sounds to me like you may be overloaded with Tummo or Heat. That is a lot. I never really experienced anything I would call physically excruciating like that. I really just got too much power of Bliss and I knew that if I kept going, there would be no way I could lead anything close to a normal life.

    I tried that, and am not too impressed with the results. Yoga is better.

    I am unsure about Hayagriva but he is Wrathful Avalokiteshvara. Therefor he cannot be disengaged. He is relevant to Speech Isolation, and I have not accomplished that.

    From the Bodhisattvas of the Three Families, I feel a bit more guided by and resonant to Vajrapani. I am not sure if this is because he is the Protector of Shaolin Temple. I accept the legend of Shaolin and Bodhidharma, there are scores of martial arts lineages which have continuity to it. And this is what I am heavily trained in, compared to meditation, which is more like a nodding acquaintance. Martial arts is one of the best things that shuts off the verbal part of my brain, and I think geometrically.

    I have a bit of bias towards Majushri's meaning or "Gentle Voice", I am a pretty firm believer this is how daily life ought to be guided, and, I usually find the opposite, which I am not sure there is a word for, I usually call it "walking heart attack". It seems to me that psychologically, many people believe in the "linear" constructs of their words, and, for example, anything that deviates from an instant and very literal response is not acceptable. They have projected "I" into the Truly Established Existence of what they claim to be their meaning.

    Except there is no such thing, that is complete Parikalpa, purely imaginary and not revealing of reality. Manjushri, on the other hand, is not deluded, is a reliable guide.

    I wish I knew better expressions for what I am trying to say. I have always used the term "linear" because it makes sense to me, but, I am not sure if that conveys enough. There are Kleshas and Poisons involved and all that kind of stuff, but, if we just use a Buddhist term like Harmful Speech, then it sounds like it does not apply to some things that may be presented as "polite", which is even worse.



    Siddharajni is a type of Tulku who was Mandarava usually white, and Niguma usually brown. However both are associated with Drum and Arrow. From how it appears to me, Drum is like a special upgrade item that the first tier of dakinis do not use.

    Sukhasiddhi is a similar Tulku who was Yeshe Tsogyal and I think Machig Labdron.

    Bhrikuti is simply considered Green or Syama Tara, she is like the start of Tibetan Buddhism from Nepal in the 600s, and arrived with statues of Akshobya and Maitreya as well as her own Sandalwood Tara. Although she may sound less tantrified or siddha-granting, we may think about why her loom is preserved somewhat secretly or at least on a restricted second floor.

    It is a bit weird that she is not considered to be Bhrikuti Tara, who only turns green when heading Amogapasha's retinue. Maybe that is the one intended. Green Tara is not enough of a name to go on. Most of them are Amoghasiddhi Taras, except Day/Night Tara is in Lotus Family; and Bhrikuti's Chinese counterpart is considered White Tara.

    Laksminkara practically "is" Cinnamasta, I am not sure if many others qualify.


    Niguma's practice is truncated and advanced:

    Three Action Meditations: Guru Yoga, Deity Yoga, and Illusory Body.

    Then Flowers, or two dakinis, Red and White Celestial Women (Khechari).

    The Fruit is Deathlessness and Non-Entry (of either samsara or permanently still nirvana).

    Guru Yoga itself has four degrees:

    Outer Guru Yoga (Vajradhara)
    Inner Guru Yoga (Vidyadharas)
    Secret Guru Yoga (Peaceful Avalokiteshvara)
    Most Secret Guru Yoga (Quintessence)

    Lady of Illusion is probably the main resource on Niguma, who, in the opening invocation, is named distinctly from Sukhasiddhi. Inner Heat is the first of the Six Doctrines; after that, you go on the Path of Seeing. The Seven Jewels of Enlightenment become the first Bhumi at this time. That is why it makes sense to "time" Vajradaka sadhana to this point, since it deifies the Seven Jewels. That is how I understand it.

    Niguma is, in my estimation, a lot more direct than the Kriya to Chara to Yoga format. She is the Shangpa lineage.

    I understand her but again I do not really have a link to her.

    Achi was around the 1100s and this is just calling her "Lady", her name being Chokyi Drolma which means Dharma Tara, which she was not called because she was Tibetan. She is mainly in Bhutanese Kagyu, her grandson is the founder of Drikung, although she is also at Sera. This is her from the 1300s:






    She is usually quickly identifiable by a drum and being on a blue horse, on which she rode into the sky to Akanistha. So this is likely her on an 1800s Nyingma:






    They do not say anything about it, but, it is based on Amitayus and Takkiraja--Manohara.

    I feel perhaps a bit closer to her since it is Drikung Thangkas we found which are designed on Sadhanamala and uses the Big Ekajati with Marici Vajradhatvishvari and others. This was her protecting a relatively recent wedding:







    She is considered a Vajrayogini who can manifest all five classes of dakinis as evident in a one-page preview which includes Four Dakinis mantra and says she is white. In a full version she is also wrathful red, and, she understands at least some Sanskrit and they do call her Dharma Tara.






    She also at least once is considered an Akshobya emanation.

    I...have not seen another individual with these capabilities. It is incomprehensible. She made herself into everything. How do you do this?

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