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Thread: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote It’s like rainbow colored river of life.
    It’s not a “book” or a “painting”.
    The rainbows I experience right now are the rainbow cauldron -- an expanding body of rainbow liquid that I was told was the "cradle of creation", and it's "male equivalent" (the male version if you will) which is a tapestry woven with that liquid, and I was told was the "tapestry of life." Only other detail that might be interesting is that my attention is called carefully to the warp and weft of the tapestry. The words for warp and weft in Sanskrit (their derivatives are still in modern Bengali) are "tantra" and "sutra" (Bengali "tontto" and "shutto").

    Quote To conclude one of my previous points
    it’s essential to cut off imaginations
    and creativity to abide in “pure meditative state”
    that in itself is the only safe way
    to abiding in non-local, higher Reality
    that is reality not a dream world.
    My clear body emerged for the very first time during/after doing a "perfect" standing -- I had maintained perfect position and had completely submerged my concentration in every single breath for one hour.

    I have another thought about this but it's still kind of pre-verbal.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Humkara, usually as seen by Vajrasattva, Vajradhara, and limited others, which is hands crossed over the heart with vajra and bell (usually). This gesture originates from the Root Tantra or Guhyasamaja and is ultimately used by Kalachakra. Samvara also uses it. This mudra is significant enough to have its own deity, Humkara.
    These mandalas resonate with me more than some of the others you have posted. I also have an ongoing thread in my mind about Hum. When I see Dakinis, or others in the tandava dancing pose, I feel them from the time spent in that dance in my shaking. I also tend to see them as the character Hum -- the body they dance on is the 'U' their bodies are arranged in the 'Ha' with arms forming the shirorekha, and their heads become the chandrabindu.

    I have saved the big Vajravali mandala. I have to study it further. Thank you.

    Quote What I was trying to mean about the seizures was not having a literal one and controlling it, but, controlling the type of spark that would set it off by reversing it. Implosion instead of explosion. By "petit mal", I am not sure I mean the literal diagnostic definition, but a "small" seizure, i. e. not total body clonic-tonic, but convulsions.
    Hmm. Okay on the 'petit mal' thing, that's kind of what I thought you meant. A non-total (as in non-general, not all of the brain) seizure is called a focal seizure.

    I don't know, because I don't know what that spark would feel like, so maybe, if one pictures the "inside" of a seizure the way Dostoevsky writes about them. I have studied internal martial arts since my youth, although I don't practice with others anymore. So I end up describing the spark that starts shaking in terms of push hands, a two person exercise in which one tries to listen (Ting - 聽, a Daoist thing) to one's opponent and parry their force using qi. To start shaking, one listens to some part of the body, or just listens without specifying, and where there is the tiniest of movements, "translates" the movement to a "push hands" contact and moves something just enough to change the movement.

    When I mentioned therapeutic shakings above, those are when I go into the pain and find a place where I can do that little change. So in a painful joint, I go into the pain and find the "fulcrum" around which it is built, if you will, and pull or push it just slightly until it comes apart into "opposites" and I then move with the opposing opposites which starts a physical shaking movement spreading outwards. When I do the more spiritual ones at night, I listen to my whole body.

    So maybe that's like finding a spark or something. It's really more like breaking a symmetry, if you are familiar with the quantum mechanical term, breaking a symmetry disturbs the status quo and creates something.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Quote Now when the energy-information that is prana-Mind detach themselves, almost magically from these heavy elements

    and dance in magical mysterious dance of life above the gravity field,
    like swarm of fireflies

    Like flashing lights

    Is it not what we call the the ultimate body of enlightenment

    Do you believe in Kundalini awakenings? I had had a small one before I started my shaking, I went looking for it, it happened. It was recreatable as a feeling in my standings by doing Tummo vase breathing, and still is. I make sure I do it at least once a day, and have since April 2019.



    Both make sense.

    Khadyota/fireflies is a borderline stage from the semi-familiar to the very strange. And so if the desired next stage is Lamp, this may be:

    Dipankara or Lamp Buddha of Nepal

    Dipa Tara or the Fourth Offering

    Turquoise Lamp or the Fourth Dissolution


    I had an inherent kundalini which at first I was mainly able to learn as Laya Yoga. Relatively simple. There is however no such thing as kundalini in Buddhism.

    It is Candali Yoga.

    It is Abhisambodhis and Yoga of the Two Moons.


    Kurukulla and Two Moons is clearly conversant with an advanced stage of the tantras.

    With respect to a white desert, both Yajnawalkya and Buddhism refer to Uttara Kuru or Great North Country thought to have been around Lake Baikal.

    To me however it simply also sounds like the First Void or White Moon.

    The sequence would go Lamp into Sky into White Moon.

    And so the sadhanas change from partial attempts into some kind of actual White Heruka who performs the real inner rite.

    The Path is Noumenal which is why it is not a kundalini awakening.

    That is why, in physiological terms, I know exactly what it can do, which in turn makes the Buddhist Path easy to comprehend, which is not the same as really crossing it.

    The critical underpinnings of Hum are something there are many important aspects to, but, right now I am out of time.
    Last edited by shaberon; 10th July 2020 at 18:42.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Just popping in ..

    Thank you both for your beautiful input. See, everyone has a point.

    Old Student, I’m originally math and physics and biology person, too.

    Every esoteric system is a “system”, the Sanskrit language itself was created as an artificial and very complex “system” to contain wisdom and knowledge of our advanced ancestors,
    every human language too is a system. Mantras of yesterday are triggers of today and perhaps, touch buttons of tomorrow.

    So in case I enjoy a vision of an entity I try to see where does the entity come from, which system does it come from , is it guiding you to a specific soul group ?

    I know I’d have died of sadness in certain stages of my life without being able to meet with one or another “soul group” I had to meet in this lifetime.
    Sometimes it’s groups, sometimes it’s individuals living scattered around the globe.


    Then the interesting part, no matter how well or not do I resonate with either of these ancient systems, my core and native experiences are out of any of it:

    they also contain entities and advanced technologies, various types of communications and never ending learning curve ..

    😀

    So in my “meditation” I mostly discard and disconnect the power of the “systems”, and power of appearances, even spiritual impressions casted upon us be they gods or demons.

    Even if we can’t last in that state at all times the very knowingness of the source mind who keeps connecting and tapping to human systems is dissolved and all that was learned is then understood differently on the next level.

    Some of the ancient mandalas, the Kalachakra for example are a piece of an AI and star map from another corner of Space,
    a star gate to another time-space
    book of records,

    I keep tapping to it, almost cyclically.

    Reading the message. It’s bigger than the “internet of things”.

    There’s interconnectedness of everything on minute level.


    I feel I’m not allowed to say much more than that



    🍵

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    I also have an ongoing thread in my mind about Hum. When I see Dakinis, or others in the tandava dancing pose, I feel them from the time spent in that dance in my shaking. I also tend to see them as the character Hum -- the body they dance on is the 'U' their bodies are arranged in the 'Ha' with arms forming the shirorekha, and their heads become the chandrabindu.


    Here, shiro = ziro (updated spelling). Ziro Rekha means Fence of Heads. Sukla Tara may be considered Rekha Tara; she masters the flat plane and casts Vajra Fence around. Nyingma Sun and Moon system is based on the construction of Hum; Tara may run the Dissolutions by dissolving Hum. Generally speaking, the deity merging with its syllable is vital. Even if one is lousy at Yoga, if one focuses energy into the syllables properly, it is said they remain after death as functional Bindus, which is the most helpful resource if one is bound to transmigrate.

    Chandra Bindu = Moon Bindu.

    The Chandra or Crescent shape is also Nada so the punctuation mark, Anusvara (M), is often called Bindu in Nada, or point of consciousness in primordial sound:








    Or at the center of its sub-letters:





    So that is the same complex M as in "Om"; the other main important punctuation is Visarga, which looks like a colon, meaning "echo". Not just any Sanskrit word ending in H is an echo--only if Visarga is present. That is usually the case in mantras. They are "chanting" versions of ordinary syllables, generally meaning they are modified by the M or H.

    Hum is Vajra Family. Others use it, and Vajra may use alternates, but it is a good rule of thumb. Vajra resides in the Heart.

    Although these deities are often dark blue, the syllable is still solar. Om is like the original dawn of consciousness, whereas Hum is its state in a Jiva or individualized life form. So what do we mean it is solar?

    We maintain that the pure solar energy is man's consciousness; it enters our individual frame, is affected by all of our skandhas and sins, and from there, goes through us to the earth's core and radiates back to other beings. This equates to dipping through the Talas, or underworlds, or hell. And so, full of sin, we breed monsters in the astral light. Whatever is in our personal hell is mirrored back out as if it were a set of fingerprints.

    So we go to purify this, which generally means a lot of vicious cemetery meditations, each being a particular aspect of consciousness, which is purified by non-dualizing it. Humkara deity is at the center of Ten Wrathful Ones--the Eight Directions plus Zenith and Nadir. He converts them to his own naming system. They are usually the same group, but, sometimes in different orders with other deities, however you can be pretty sure that Sumbha goes to the nadir or underworld, with a Serpent Noose.

    As we have seen, with some of the more intricate goddesses, they are not "in" a Family--they might, for example, change families. The advanced rites are not a static picture, but are some kind of phase where something happens. For example, Amoghapasha somehow turns Bhrkuti from White to Turquoise. Or, a goddess might arise from a certain syllable, but be crowned by a different family, is, so to speak, going somewhere.

    Varuni is perhaps the paramount of these. There are many reasons to envision she comes from Jewel Family. There are reasons to say she ostensibly performs in Lotus Family. And there is another reason to say she deals with Vajra Family.

    Ananta is Vishnu's serpent of eternity--also called Sesha. And so in her own residence, Varuni is the embodied radiance of Sesha at the bottom of the Talas, i. e. this unit is the earth's core. All beings worship Hellfire or Dense Dark Light.

    And so we have been talking about some unusual chakra that is outside and above the body, which is like a challenge or goal for this age of the planet.

    The final age is really the return of Parasu Rama. Kalachakra may use the term Kalki Avatar, however, it refers to Parasu, guru of Maitreya.

    The challenge of that age will deal with the fact that...Sesha-Varuni is the outside-of-the-body lower chakra. In other words, everyone in the world shares a common chakra, which is the core of hell. And so, perhaps, we are being Noosed to something. And then it would appear desirable to have Sesha--Ananta Naga King as a simple jewelry item, that leaks or agitations of prana related to his domain are sealed and balanced.

    And so if we chant Hum, we are definitely trying to stabilize something.

    Since we are hopeless hamfists that normally just wreck ourselves, Avalokiteshvara will go to hell to get us back and give us another chance, but he is getting so tired of it that it just makes him cry, and he is trying to ear whisper how to stop falling in there.

    And so Akshobya the Buddha of Vajra Family normally maintains the earth-touching gesture.

    Akshobya is so powerful that his Pure Land called Abhirati is not attainable by a Bodhisattva of less than the Eighth Bhumi.

    Akshobya's Worldly Bodhisattva is Vajrapani.

    Vajrapani is so wickedly clever that he is able, as far as I can tell, to cheat, by taking a Buddha Prajna for his consort, Mamaki.

    And so in talking about Nepal, they have something that only makes sense a certain way. For example, with Agni, there are really Two Fires; the Visible Sun is a seven rayed manifestation; the Dark Sun is Three-in-One. And then, with Lakshmi, she explains the Gunas very peculiarly. They exist on her plane as three non-dual Divine Gunas. But when the planes of mind and the astral world are manifested, she commands the shaktis to partner swap. On the astral plane of Ganges are six mayavic Agni seeds, and then when this finally pours to the physical world, it is negatively reflected. And so there are several manifested shaktis, which, Ganesh-like, a person may summon all together, however it must be pointed out that on so-called higher planes, their mode of existence is completely different, having an ultimate divine form.

    The Nepalese path eventually refers to a trinity of goddesses which are outside, or, rather, above, the Buddha Families, and are more synthetic or like a compound interaction.

    In practice, the Families have to be expanded, like a Lotus, but then they too are merged to a Trinity, Tri-kaya.

    The goddess trinity all has a 1,000 arm Maha or universal manifestation.

    Vasudhara. Vasudhara is a Lakshmi, who as Siddha Lakshmi is the tutelary goddess of the Malla dynasty, i. e. a close Hindu equivalent. Lakshmi is Mahamaya Vijayavahini, or a Red 1,000 arm form. Mahamaya is a name for magic, whether Hindu or Buddhist. Lakshmi tantra is about Maha Maya and explains that there is a Yoga Maya for Devas that humans do not penetrate, and it is this that Jupiter is really the guru of (the devas). Both traditions utilize Maha Maya, and the way it appears in Buddhist tantra is that Naro Dakini must become energetic enough to drink blood. At that stage she becomes Buddha Dakini, a Four Arm Drummer, and Buddha Dakini is Mahamaya's consort. Then is turns out that Mahamaya is: sex-changed Lakshmi. One of the things that Mahamaya reveals is an Usnisa of Emptiness, Buddha Kapala or Buddha Skull, i. e. a spell emanated from the skull of Buddha, which is something like the mastery of occult color.

    That says nothing about Vasudhara, per se, but it is the fundamentals of Mahamaya, and both of these are Lakshmi. Again, the idea of occult color is like a negative, at right angles to ordinary rays; if I stare at an orange spot, I get a blue-green after-impression. Do not rely on this for a real practice, but, Lilac Chaser should force anyone to notice it:









    Vasudhara is again like a border, like a stone wall around the Dharma realm--again according to our merit and self-secrecy or vajra ignorance--within which is Varahi.


    Sitatapatra Parasol Amaravajra Pratyangira is capable of a White 1,000 arm form. It may be ferocious but also like a Queen, very regal, peaceful, beautiful.


    Mamaki Guhyeshvari Guhya Kali. She is, at the very least, a relation of Vajra, Karma, and Jewel Family. She is "the" mystery goddess, she is Nepal, her vagina and cervix Pitha is in Kathmandu, it is she who initiated Manjushri into Chakrasamvara--Vajrayogini, and is called Adi Prajna. She has a 1,000 arm half Blue half Green form, holding men and women.

    Varuni is Mamaki, Varuni must never be called by syllable Vam like Vajravarahi, she must be called by Mam, which is one of the few, rare exceptions where a deity does not use their initial.

    Also, Buddha says that Pratisara is Mamaki. She is a Protector and a Bodhisattva and mainly related to Jewel Family. She is obscured if relegated to Pancha Raksha or Five Protectors and thought of as a luck charm, but, again, in Sadhanamala, she goes from a "normal" format but changes rites into something...let's just say weird and difficult.

    These three Prajnas have corresponding Buddhas which I cannot remember, but I believe they are aspects of Vajradhara. If you reverse engineer these goddesses, you get everything. You are allowed to interact with outer forms of Vasudhara, Parasol, or Pratisara.

    Parasol is strongly related to Shurungama Sutra, which in some editions also suggests Seven Buddha Families by adding Kumara Kula and Naga Kula. And so there is an appropriate-sounding, although slightly scripturally erroneous, nice recording for her. The same thing can also be used in a wrathful tone.



    This mantra is being done by Khenpo Karsang Tenzin who is with FPMT or Promienie from where we have obtained many valuable things. They describe it this way:

    Mantra of Sitatapatra is extremely magical, capable of eliminating tribulation. Those who want to harm you also can not harm. All devil fear when hear to this mantra.

    When you chanting mantra the mind despite the scattered mind, the TATHAGATA still don't give up you. For those who have bodhicitta then the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas will advance to enlighten your consciousness, you will never to be born into the low realm of samsara.

    He is not actually going to say Parasol or Sitatapatra. It has these two mantras many times each. then changes to an apparently Tibetan probably Sutra reading, I think it has her name Dukkar, and then starts over.

    OM SARVA TATHAGATA USNISA HUM PHAT HUM MAMA HUM NI SWAHA

    HUM MAMA HUM NI SWAHA







    Although it may look like mother, that is Mata in Sanskrit; Mama is "mine" and so Mamaki is "Mine-Maker". She is either greedy for everything, or, owns or identifies with all selves, that is her axis.

    In this mantra, "Mama" is shortly followed by "Ni", which is like to lead or to govern. So indeed it is like asking Parasol to be my Queen. She is in Buddha Family, although, for some reason, she uses Hum to stabilize "me".
    Last edited by shaberon; 11th July 2020 at 07:29.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Part of what I am trying to show is that a basic white goddess is a main crux of all the tantric stages, in a way that can almost only be shown by Nagarjuna and the Ngor artwork. She remains in place to the highest level, and yet has outer forms.

    And so this is different from White Tara as generally promulgated in Tibet. The first two are:

    Vajra Tara and Mrtyuvacana.

    Or, an ego-less gnosis of void, plus the tradition Explaining Death.

    In Sakya, some of the few alternative completion stage or highest levels are:

    Vajra Tara and Amaravajra


    So from the thangkas on the previous page, we can see Amaravajra is close to Rechung Amitayus and Seven Syllable Avalokiteshvara. Nothing else is like this.


    Vajra Tara has an "adjustment" to Tara's pose which is more meditational or Vajra Feet:


    Mahattari is a type of varada Tara with a flaming halo, seated in Vajra Paryanka. There is a broken image of her at Ratnagiri with Pancha Jina centered on Amoghasiddhi, along with Avalokiteshvara and Manjugosha. She has Mayuri, Janguli, Akoshakanta Marici, and Ekajata, Varada Tara's same four companions, and same as Mahasri's, ca. 10th century. In Sadhanamala, her foot posture and varada gesture is also used by White Mrtyuvacana, and Nagarjuna's two armed Vajra Tara.

    Tara normally dangles a foot, as if ready to do something. There is no known image of Mrtyuvacana. The closest is White Pratisara with a Wheel:








    She is ready to jump across the universe with a sword, which is unique to her.

    Mrtyuvacana has almost no historical mention except:

    In 1894, L. A. Waddell got some notes on the Suryagupta Taras that seem to have been misplaced. 1 is the same as usual but "very" fat and strong--peaceful though. Rabtu pawai drolma. 2 is whitish-purple. 3 he thought might be Gauri Tara. 4 is Yellow Usnisa. 8 is normally on makaras. 10 is Black Nyangan Selwai Drolma. He gives a Pradhamsita Tri-mandala White Tara with Yellow Marici and Black Ekajata in a way that sounds like Tri-kaya Chinnamasta. Similarly, Mrtyuvancana Tara with Kurukulla and a male Wrathful Niladanta Krodha Raja. Then for Khadira, he gives mtshon as "three holy ones pointed finger" and she is with Yellow Marici and Black Krodha Ralchikma.


    So he says Mrtyuvacana is with Kurukulla, and, something that must be close to the same as Humkara.

    This is utterly continuous and one of the most important subjects; I hope that makes sense.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote It is Abhisambodhis and Yoga of the Two Moons.
    I tried to look this up, I'm guessing I need to know more to understand it?

    Quote With respect to a white desert, both Yajnawalkya and Buddhism refer to Uttara Kuru or Great North Country thought to have been around Lake Baikal.

    To me however it simply also sounds like the First Void or White Moon.

    The sequence would go Lamp into Sky into White Moon.
    The mixing of what shows up in my shakings and the Mongolian culture (Lake Baikal of old) is very close to where I started trying to find "common ancestry" in mythology between the cultures in Asia and in North America, that I described obsessing about before.

    I had used the term Kundalini awakening in the sense of a spiritual opening up that starts from a surge up the torso or spine. In practice, my notes use the expression TK for "Tummo-Kundalini" for the surge part.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Old Student, I’m originally math and physics and biology person, too.

    Every esoteric system is a “system”, the Sanskrit language itself was created as an artificial and very complex “system” to contain wisdom and knowledge of our advanced ancestors,
    every human language too is a system. Mantras of yesterday are triggers of today and perhaps, touch buttons of tomorrow.

    So in case I enjoy a vision of an entity I try to see where does the entity come from, which system does it come from , is it guiding you to a specific soul group ?
    Thank you for this.

    I can't say where it is guiding me. Right now, it seems like physical and mental/spiritual training, including shakings the sole purpose of which is to get my muscles strong enough for the next technique. Where it is going right now is to being able to experience two "vision streams" at once, one from a male point of view one from a female point of view. They are tied together, but I only know that when I go back and forth. And they at first seemed to tell me not to try to go through the death place, now it seems like they are filling me up with rainbows to do just that. But I'm not sure. It's hard enough trying to do the two vision streams at the same time.

    The math that seems to come up most recently is a lot of tangents of tangents of tangents -- something I had to understand about Lie algebras, and a lot of fractal stuff -- something that most recently I encountered in reading about h-principle. But I think they just grab whatever is in my mind that would help them explain things. I'm not good at keeping my equanimity if I see something infinitely complex, I tend to be drawn to it like a shiny bauble.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Your picture of the two HUMs, the one on the right is the form in which it seems like the dance.

    Quote Generally speaking, the deity merging with its syllable is vital. Even if one is lousy at Yoga, if one focuses energy into the syllables properly, it is said they remain after death as functional Bindus, which is the most helpful resource if one is bound to transmigrate.
    The whole household here got something out of that, so thank you.

    Back to the Two Moons for a second, I was going to say something about your Vajrapali mandala. Humkara at center (male) has a crescent moon in his hair, not unlike Shiva. Amaravajra at the bottom (female) has a full moon in her hair.


    I see green in the Lilac Chaser. That is pretty close to the green color of my clear body most of the time.

    Quote Mamaki Guhyeshvari Guhya Kali. She is, at the very least, a relation of Vajra, Karma, and Jewel Family. She is "the" mystery goddess, she is Nepal, her vagina and cervix Pitha is in Kathmandu, it is she who initiated Manjushri into Chakrasamvara--Vajrayogini, and is called Adi Prajna. She has a 1,000 arm half Blue half Green form, holding men and women.
    She has shown up exactly once in my shakings. I know that because she identified herself as, "Mine". She was at my heart, but there was a dispute (in the shaking the dispute happened) over whether it was she or Prajnaparamita.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)
    Back to the Two Moons for a second, I was going to say something about your Vajrapali mandala. Humkara at center (male) has a crescent moon in his hair, not unlike Shiva. Amaravajra at the bottom (female) has a full moon in her hair.


    I see green in the Lilac Chaser. That is pretty close to the green color of my clear body most of the time.

    Quote Mamaki Guhyeshvari Guhya Kali. She is, at the very least, a relation of Vajra, Karma, and Jewel Family. She is "the" mystery goddess, she is Nepal, her vagina and cervix Pitha is in Kathmandu, it is she who initiated Manjushri into Chakrasamvara--Vajrayogini, and is called Adi Prajna. She has a 1,000 arm half Blue half Green form, holding men and women.
    She has shown up exactly once in my shakings. I know that because she identified herself as, "Mine". She was at my heart, but there was a dispute (in the shaking the dispute happened) over whether it was she or Prajnaparamita.


    Haha, well, it is hilarious, that is really the best! There is no dispute. She IS Prajnaparamita.


    To describe Adi Buddha, Hodgson used Namasangiti Manjushri exclusively. Then to explain Adi Prajna, which is the same as Adi Dharma, Guhyeshvari, he mainly used Ashta Sahasrika (Eight Thousand Verse) Prajnaparamita. But somehow at the end, he got something from Sadhanamala:

    World Yoni, Triangle with Bindu

    He even names it Dharmodaya Sangata Kamarupini. He did not explain this much, but, somehow, a Cyclopedia cribbed him almost entirely for their definition of Prajna, it clarifies this means Kameshvari at Guhawati, Assam, who also uses the same Triangle. This is considered the uterus and ovaries Pitha.


    So, yes, if we see something like different moons, crescent to full, Yoga is based in the Lunar calendar, and same esoterically. It is also related to Shiva and his weapons. Abhisambodhis use something like lunar days tied to syllables of the alphabet, vowels and consonants, which are Ali Kali. That makes it Candali Yoga.

    And so that is part of the underlying structure of the sadhana, however, Samadhi is something one is trying to enter...it is an elusive term, but, something like "meditative equipoise with respect to a visualization".

    Abhisambodhi is what the Tathagatas explained to Buddha. In the Six Yogas, it pertains to the fifth stage. In Kalachakra symbols, the Six Yogas are:

    Crow-Faced, pratyahara (withdrawal);

    Owl-Faced, dhyana (meditation on the nature of Tathagathas));

    Dog-Faced, pranayama (control of the winds in five colors with diamond-muttering, vajrajapa);

    Boar-Faced, dharana, retention with purification of mind (cittta-visuddhi) and personal blessing (svadisthana);

    Yama's Messenger, anusmrti or recollection, so as to proceed in reverse order with revelation-enlightenment (abhisambodhi);

    Yama's Cremation Ground, samadhi "consummation", with yuganaddha, the pair united.



    Yama's Messenger Dakini, Anusmrti or recollection, so as to proceed in reverse order with revelation-enlightenment (abhisambodhi); the awareness of bliss and emptiness that develops once the blending of the winds and drops and the binding of the drops have been stabilised, by the use of whichever is suitable of the three mudrās, through the blazing and melting within the central channel from the six centres arise the awareness of the radiation of all the various divine empty-forms (the classes of deities in the maṇḍala).


    In Vajradaka tantra, it is the male seed which eventually becomes Smrti with Six Dakinis. But the Six Limb or Sadanga tradition in general is hooked to the Abhisambodhi sequence which is based in Red and White Moons and the use of the deity's Hand Symbol.

    The sequence is the Dissolution of the Voids, a passage through death.

    And so it explains how Buddha's Enlightenment was distinct from that of other Sages, by doing so in the manner prescribed by the Tathagatas.

    That is why saying doing Six Yogas, Five Abhisambodhis, and Eight Dissolutions is sort of contemporaneous or the same thing--just a matter of depth.

    And that what I mean by Yoga or Yoga Tantra is an attempt to become grounded in the Third Yoga, Prana Yama or Vajra Japa. Sadhanas based on this are linked below.

    In the Abhisambodhis, the White and Red Moons are the Hetu Vajradhara, the causal or Vajrasattva, or us, who dies. Then using the Deity's Bindu Mantra and Hand Symbol, one is reborn in a Perfect Image or Phala Vajradhara or fruitional.


    If you do it powerfully enough, you are pretty much in a dead condition and have to be kept in a tomb for days or up to three to six months.

    This is "above" a full mandala and so under the Two Moons we see the needed Victory components--Banner and Parasol. These are commonly on the many prayer flags. We should have an idea what Parasol is by now. Banner is more like Mahamaya Vijayavahini, Dhavajagrakeyura, and Ratnolka, meteor and smoky, darker or redder. You could call them cumulative spellcraft on the two branch nerves Solar and Lunar.


    So when it talks about Hand Symbol, the example is usually a Vajra, but we also have a fairly decent understanding that Sword is an item which points to the central channel, and that the Arrow is force moving up it. The Sword also has a Two Edge meaning.


    Khadgamala should never be chanted without initiation into Srividya. They say Kurukulla will destroy one and one's family. According to the Yakshas, Khadga Siddhi is from Malini. That is a Hindu view of Kurukulla. You can listen to Khadgamala, but don't say it.

    Kurukulla in Buddhism is generally confused for a cupid-esque love goddess, but the same mistake is on the Greek Eros, who is the One Life in Manifestation.

    The two edges of the Sword, as mainly found on Guhya Jnana Dakini, are Form and Formless Siddhis.

    Kurukulla Sadhana found in the Sadhanamala (No. 72), there occurs a list of eight great laukika or worldly siddhis or magical powers acquired through her practice:

    1. Khadga-siddhi (ral-gri), the power to be invincible in battle with a sword (khadga);

    2. Anjana-siddhi (mig-rtsi), the power to remove ordinary lack of sight by using a magical ointment that enables the user to see Devas, Nagas, and other spirits;

    3. Padalepa-siddhi (rkang-pa’i byug-pa), the power to be swift of foot by using a magical ointment that, when applied to the feet, allows the user to run with incredible swiftness;

    4. Antardhana-siddhi (mi snang-bar ‘gyur-ba), the power to become invisible;

    5. Rasayana-siddhi (bcud-len), the power of rejuvenation and long life through obtaining the elixir of life by way of an alchemical process;

    6. Khechara-siddhi (mkha’-spyod), the power to levitate or to fly through the sky;

    7. Bhuchara-siddhi (zhing-spyod), the power to move freely through the earth, mountains, and solid walls; and

    8. Patala-siddhi (sa-‘og), the power to have command over the spirits of the underworld (patala).




    By "worldly" siddhis, here, seems to mean "Form", or Nirmana and Sambhoga Kayas.

    Circle of Bliss is unable to explain Guhyajnana except by her sword; that it is of the Vidyadhara who holds the above knowledges. But in the case of Buddhism, the sword also includes the other edge of transcendental Lokottara siddhis:

    Generation and Completion Stages.

    Handbook of Tibetan Symbols also makes sword the "leader" of the siddhis, and also that it is actually a Crossed Vajra of Amoghasiddhi. The basic name Khadga Yogini is mostly just meaningful in Nepal, where it is a Two Arm version of her with little meaning other than the Sword, or Sankhu Vajrayogini, with Baghini and Singhini, the Tiger and Lion-headed Yoginis. These Tramen are the top two suppressors of Bhairava. We know it is like Mahacina, we know how it relates to Assam and the Kirat--Naga culture which is Mongolian, and yes probably influential to North America, I think we are looking at a time scale something like 8-30,000 years.

    I do not have Kurukulla, and I would have to say Mandarava sounds like a bit of a Guru if she has appeared.

    I do not have Mandarava.

    I look at the Arrow on White Lakshmi and I see it something like this:

    what I, personally, mentally, inherently protect, is the life wind and its Arrow-like intent. I don't guard a set of tantric texts or anything like that, I am mainly focused on the health and safety and yogic processes of life. Vigilant. So in that sense, she seems exactly the same as me, without being a localized or lineage product.

    There is such a thing as a Mandarava lineage. And if we inspect that Ganapuja, she is identifiable with Jnana Dakini. And she also uses the Four Dakinis mantra froim Guhya Jnana Dakini. So that is what I mean by the "wild-caught" Guhya Jnana folds into, or dovetails with, the mantric identity as carried forward by lineages of Jnana Dakini and Chakrasamvara.

    It is a Nyingma document which also uses Rahula and the other guy who are their own thing, these are not general Protectors, they are specific to this lineage. So for example in Kagyu we do not have that part. If I want to look at something like this and protect it with my own Protector, I can do that.

    I am sensitive to Lilac Chaser, I can make them all dissolve into the green one almost immediately. Yes, I figured greenish-clear meant something close to that.


    And so for the Abhisambodhi, I am not trying to suggest anyone to do it, but we see where it lies on the Path and that we can do Yoga into Prana Yama. So this would bind, reverse, and balance the winds into the three main channels. This triple balance moves through a system of three and eventually four chakras. It is a based on a mantra which bonds the three main families, Buddha, Lotus, and Vajra. And from compiling vast amounts of information, there is a way to represent it in stages of Inverted Stupa, from Bindu Nada, to Crescent or Bow, and Triangle. In Yoga that I write about doing, it is intended to shear off the parts that complete the Stupa or summon the Completion Stage, that stuff is like a knowledge base that we do not use.

    Things are a little different, if you have Kurukulla, most of us don't, but her definitions indicate she is attached to the top end of this.

    The intent here is to gradually acquire Guhya Jnana Dakini and Ziro Bhusana Vajrayogini, Varuni and Armor Deities.

    Japa just used to be explained to us as Om Ah Hum, but, it could be said, this is the basis for the eventual manasa japa with the actualized deity. And so we, so to speak, blend mind, mantra, and wind into the channels. Therefor each of the articles is perhaps a consuming subject that represents time spent within.

    Prajnaparamita explains Vajra Muttering Om Ah Hum.


    Pratisara is mixed with much more information including Vasudhara in her samaya forms. Pratisara is an outer activity of Vajra Panjara tantra. Here we involve Jewel Family.



    Charchika is the stage of Agni or, so to speak, a tantric chakra or Nirmana Chakra. It is almost all of what is considered Generation Stage.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    So it looks like we found continuity from Prajnaparamita--Nagarjuna's first "text goddess"--to Guhyeshvari and the human body.

    For most of us, that represents a bunch of levels and degrees, but, if the energy "hits", then the whole composite should be more manageable.

    I am not sure if I have a good translated example of Ali Kali. It is pretty standard in some of the tantras.

    The Moon, however, has many more evidences. In the Puranas, Chandra or Soma is the visible Moon, which has phases and occupies around Twenty-seven Nakshatras or Lunar Mansions, changing daily. However, it turns out there is a different or higher type of lunar deity called Full Moon Sacrifice. In original Theosophy, it would be the monad or atma-buddhi-manas.

    And so what is happening is the subordination of the flickering, evanescent lower moon to the transcendental one. But whenever we see "sacrifice", or Yajna, as in Yajnawalkya, it means Agni or Fire has eaten and conveyed some form of Offering.

    It is an aspect of the Dharmakaya; and so the Lunar Mansions are included in Manjushri Dharmadhatu Vagisvara mandala, which was projected simultaneously with Kalachakra mandala by Buddha, at a place called Amaravati, or, A-mara Vati. This is, of course, the most distinct use of the same name as in Amara Vajra.

    Since the Vajrasattva is more or less daily, it collects all of the moon's phases, whereas other types of deities are more heavily aspected at certain times. And so what would it mean for what we experience as Dark Moon to still be Full?

    The Yoga winds up doing a type of funeral by Agni. Offerings are made by the parts and pieces of manifestation, until the whole Vajrasattva, similar to Ganesh, is offered. One's psychological apparatus is offered through the fire into void, and there may be no result, but the ideal is to perform a Phala Vajradhara, whereby the void replaces the skandhas with a Divine Ego. At that point, the deity has not just generated as one's form, but has replaced whatever was one's "self".

    The formula for doing Buddhism Offerings is a quite standard eight line thing which generally lacks explanatory details. It also, so to speak, circles again but doing only five, ending on Food.

    And so if you bookmark that point for the mirror image, then, a major aspect of the goddess in the Phala Vajradhara is Anna Purna. She of course means what she ordinarily means, but, in Yoga, has a tantric meaning equally related to Fullness.

    That is why in Buddhism the male aspect is a seed, most like the White Moon, falling through the veils and states of matter, within which, so to speak, is the emergent Lasya, which is seen in the rites as a sort of expanding moonlight or Sukla goddess. And so as soon as we take that name for a reference, the first most important stable Sukla means in the middle of the cemeteries, casting a Fence, in a state equivalent to Acala. This Acala or male aspect of mind being its name for not disturbing what in Yoga is called Water Moon.

    The female aspect is mostly considered Red Moon, and, since this is still experienced by the male aspect, as soon as we turn to Red Avalokiteshvara, the interaction is plain.

    That is why Red and White is the main axis, the two main seeds in the body of father and mother and so forth. But in different scenarios, it may be portrayed as Blue and Yellow. Alteration of the spectrum is like discarding physical form. And so in one sense, the axis of outer Yoga is White Tara to Green Tara, i. e. the most harmonious color to the most physically compounded one. That is why these two simple Taras are present on very many of the Highest Yoga mandalas. It is how Amoghasiddhi tantra works.

    Amoghasiddhi's Sambhoga Kaya Taras such as Mahattari and Maha Sri have as one of their companions Mayuri.

    In Buddhism the Jewel Family can hardly be pinned down to what they "are" because they are more like a process than a steady state. Pratisara really is a recommended resource by most of the teachers. And, she has, as one of her companions, Mayuri.

    For most of us who do not have Kurukulla, it appears that Mayuri is capable of being a preliminary Yoga Power of Kumari. As an initiate you would enchant Kunkuma Powder with Bala Kumari or Kanya Kumari, which could perhaps be Kurukulla. Mayuri is a Sutra goddess of Golden Light Sutra and has outer teachings, such as with Pratisara. From the Nepalese view, the Five Protectors are recommended to anyone, however it is correct that in Sadhanamala they proceed to an occult condition; they are like Peaceful and Wrathful Natures of Bodhisattvas.

    From them, it is mainly Mayuri that goes off to join Janguli, Marici, and Ekajati with Tara. That is something like moving from a Jewel Family rite to an Amoghasiddhi rite.

    That is why it seems to me that at an early stage of mantra recitation that having Pratisara and Vasudhara introduce themselves as Jewel Family--which has an almost missing higher tantra--but does have a non-dual Yoga tantra, Vajra Tara--is the nearest approach.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Haha, well, it is hilarious, that is really the best! There is no dispute. She IS Prajnaparamita.
    Okay. The whole thing was confusing, it was at my heart, and the Bodhisattva that usually turns the chakra there in my shakings is Avalokitashvara. I can find nothing (looking online) that relates these three but Prajnaparamita is always around when Avalokitashvara is.

    Quote To describe Adi Buddha, Hodgson used Namasangiti Manjushri exclusively. Then to explain Adi Prajna, which is the same as Adi Dharma, Guhyeshvari, he mainly used Ashta Sahasrika (Eight Thousand Verse) Prajnaparamita. But somehow at the end, he got something from Sadhanamala:

    World Yoni, Triangle with Bindu

    He even names it Dharmodaya Sangata Kamarupini. He did not explain this much, but, somehow, a Cyclopedia cribbed him almost entirely for their definition of Prajna, it clarifies this means Kameshvari at Guhawati, Assam, who also uses the same Triangle. This is considered the uterus and ovaries Pitha.


    So, yes, if we see something like different moons,...
    Okay, so as of last night, I am now needing to research a White One who has six arms, wears all of the five bone ornaments, is dancing, and her dance "creates" the moonlight and everything else about the climax at my clear body's vulva -- one of the two moons in the notes I quoted before. She has the same "colors" as The White One in the mandala at my dantian, but the presentation is very different -- she is tinged with and haloed by red surrounded by blue, the precise color red is deep, it is "dichroic" with the green in my clear body but brightens to a fiery red when surging, the blue is iridescent blue that sometimes is "dusted" on my clear body and likewise can go from darker to brilliant.

    She may be the same White One, you will recall that I don't really know how many arms the one in my mandala at dantian has. She occupies the same "ritual" presence in this capacity with respect to my female clear body as the one striking with the bone on the desert did in my male-side shaman-like vision, in the black feathers -- her movements create the vision.

    The blisses created out of the different colors are very different, and I did look back in my notes and find that I had learned this once before in a "less developed" lesson months ago. There were seven of them: red, blue, yellow, purple, black, white, green (not sure whether green goes at beginning or end).

    Quote I do not have Kurukulla, and I would have to say Mandarava sounds like a bit of a Guru if she has appeared.

    I do not have Mandarava.
    Do I have them because they instruct me?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote That is why in Buddhism the male aspect is a seed, most like the White Moon, falling through the veils and states of matter, within which, so to speak, is the emergent Lasya, which is seen in the rites as a sort of expanding moonlight or Sukla goddess. And so as soon as we take that name for a reference, the first most important stable Sukla means in the middle of the cemeteries, casting a Fence, in a state equivalent to Acala. This Acala or male aspect of mind being its name for not disturbing what in Yoga is called Water Moon.

    The female aspect is mostly considered Red Moon, and, since this is still experienced by the male aspect, as soon as we turn to Red Avalokiteshvara, the interaction is plain.
    I have white and red, as I told you they seem like onions, one is at my crown one is at my perineum and seems bloody, and related to childbirth. The one at my crown is also frequently a stupa, but not an inverted one, rather one in the desert that is related to death somehow.

    And my moons are all white, and as far as I can tell, the full moons are all female. The crescent is in a pair the other member of the pair is a drop of milk, so to the extent that they are opposites in union, that one is perhaps male.

    Quote Yama's Messenger Dakini, Anusmrti or recollection, so as to proceed in reverse order with revelation-enlightenment (abhisambodhi); the awareness of bliss and emptiness that develops once the blending of the winds and drops and the binding of the drops have been stabilised, by the use of whichever is suitable of the three mudrās, through the blazing and melting within the central channel from the six centres arise the awareness of the radiation of all the various divine empty-forms (the classes of deities in the maṇḍala).
    Sorry to mix quotes from your two postings, but is the blazing and dripping what is in abhisambodhi? Is it the same blazing and dripping as in Lama Yeshe's Bliss of Inner Fire?

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)

    Sorry to mix quotes from your two postings, but is the blazing and dripping what is in abhisambodhi? Is it the same blazing and dripping as in Lama Yeshe's Bliss of Inner Fire?
    It is likely to be, that is a stock phrase in the literature.

    In simple terms, it melts the Tathagatas of the body, Akshobya and the others, and burns Mamaki and the Prajnas. Whoosh!

    Abhisambodhi is within Smrti or Anusmrti, one of the Seven Jewels of Enlightenment or Seven Factors of Awakening which are Sutra based from the ancient Pali sources. Smrti is the fifth Yoga, and a Jewel of Enlightenment, represented by the male Vajradaka.

    Vajradaka deifies the Seven Jewels; they are the necessary Factors of Awakening, not Final Enlightenment or the Wisdom or Prajna itself.



    Sukla is a Tara, which generally means not dancing like a dakini:








    I cannot really say "this is how it is" in terms of chakras, or what may be spontaneously experienced in the subtle body. White surrounded by red surrounded by blue is already the manifestation of Om Ah Hum or Three Families or Tri-kaya. The Prajnaparamita exercise I mentioned is this in Three Chakras.

    Sukla only has one sadhana, which says she is in the cemeteries in a state of Acala, unperturbed, and bound or not losing prana out the doorways. Here again there are a handful of deities who are able to teach and maintain this state.

    There are di-chroic dakinis. Most deities have different colors on different faces.

    Drop of milk + crescent sounds like bindu and nada?

    The normal moon goddess is Cunda. Cunda and Vajra Tara both emit red light, are in a red aura. And so if you put White Cunda, in a Red Aura, over a Blue background, what would you have.

    Tibetan Deities also lists Red Cunda 152, who uses "meditation transmission". She is called Arya Cunda Tara, or Pama Tsunda Tara:

    A Khadira tree grows from a Lotus and Moon, on which is Tam. This becomes shining Red Tara with red rays flowing from every pore. She has loose hair with strands of red pearls braided in. Holding above her knee a picula fruit yellow inside, blue on the surface, the left hand at the heart with the stem of a red utpala lotus on which rests a book. She is not Tara-posed but has Vajra Feet, is adorned with silks and jewels, especially pearls. At her heart is a lotus and moon on which is Tam and the mantra; recite the Ten Syllable mantra.

    A difference with her from the previous Green Tara is that the fruit has been opened. Picula is the same fruit as from Fruit-picker Vasudhara and is a symbol of a tantric bindu with its inner/outer colors.

    There is no Amitabha or overt Lotus motif other than red, but this takes place at one of the only specific mentions of a Khadira [Green Tara] tree. And so it provides a relationship between Red and Green. Cunda should probably be called Red Tara in the general, outer, samaya sense.

    In most other cases, Cunda is white or moon-colored, and revered across Asia, having various numbers of arms.

    Cunda has a particular affinity for Manjushri and Kurukulla. With Manjushri, she arises in her spectacular Twenty-six arm form, i. e. having all the lunar mansions. The Kurukulla is weird; in sadhanas, it is not unusual for example for Eight Fears Tara to make copies of herself for a retinue. However what Kurukulla does, is draw in external goddess such as Cunda, and put them in Kurukulla form.


    Prajnaparamita manuscript Cunda:






    Bodh Gaya stele:








    Cunda Dharani also contains a standard error. It says her mantra is:

    Namo Saptanam Samyak Sambuddha Kotinam Tadyatha
    Om Cale Cule Cundi Svaha

    In Sanskrit grammar, Tadyatha is similar to "tathagata", and it means "it goes like this, this way". The mantra is really the part after "tadhyata", but almost any dharani recording ignores this, i. e. the Tibetan style is to ignore the grammar and use the extra chunk.

    Her personal syllable is similar to Hum except it starts with "ch" sound, like her name, like the majority of Sanskrit, c = ch, Chandra, Candra, Chandali, Candali...all start the same.

    In Roll of Thunder From Void, Cunda is Mahabala's consort at the base of the spine. But this is Vajra Kilaya tantra. As indicated, more chakras are eventually used in Buddhism, and that is how. Cunda enters Union in the Nadir. If you have something like this in a lower chakra, it remains the case that Cunda may have unspecified various numbers of arms.




    Concerning Abhisambodhi, in Dakarnava, Vajradhara explains,

    "Dividing the Anuttara Tantra into [maha] yoga-tantra and yogini-tantra — in the
    ‘kings’ of the [maha] yoga-tantras taken by themselves. By what method
    is it done? One generates in the forward direction the three [called] Light
    ( aloka ), Spread-of-Light ( alokabhasa ), and Culmination-of-Light ( aloko -
    palabdhi), together with the Clear Light ( prabhasvara ); and at the time
    of emerging from the latter, in the reverse direction one accomplishes
    the Illusory Body from the five rays of wind ( vayu ) riding on the four
    Voids. The method consists in emerging in the Illusory Body from the
    Clear Light by way of knowing in exactitude such things as the coming
    forth with skill and the varieties of their rites."


    Kriya-Charya teaches Abhisambodhi without explaining Generation and Completion. Many things explain Completion without explaining Abhisambodhi.

    Yoga is between the two.

    Yoga includes Atma Tattva and Deva Tattva from Kriya-Charya, followed by Mandala [Thirty-seven points of its own unique nature]. Together, Atma and Deva Tattvas make Tattva Devata, the first or reality god. The Six Gods of Kriya-Charya are intended as the Abhisambodhis plus Manifest Buddha. This is akin to increasing Vajrasattva from Purification to Prajna-Upaya.

    In Yoga, Paramadya Tantra increases Vajrasattva from Prajna-Upaya to Mahasukha-Unwasted Vajra, or Bliss. This is due to mantra, the throat is Sambhoga chakra. Paramadya's goddesses are Four Activities in a Vajrasattva theme, having Ragavajra or Passion to please Vajrasattva's mind so he will not swerve from the thought of Enlightenment, Joyful Utterance Vajra Kili Kila arouses a pledge to remain attached to mahasukha-unwasted vajra, Vajrasmrti is unshattered by the poisons, Vajra Kameshvari, Queen of Desires, Objects Manifested by Vajrasattva. is Gnosis. This makes the hand symbol, five pronged vajra of Vajradhara.


    So in Kriya-Charya, they teach the Abhisambodhis as a system of visualization, and then Yoga is for the Five Prong Vajra or a Bliss Whorl, bowl of rainbow light, this kind of thing.


    The Abhisambodhi sequence, per se, is simply:

    White Moon
    Red Moon
    Bindu Syllable
    Hand Symbol
    Perfect Image

    And so the "full teaching" of Vajradhara is the Moons generating the Voids, or the Yoga of how to do that part. This is the death or you fully die if experiencing all the signs of Dissolutions. So it symbolicly attaches to any deity that uses the Two Moons in a tantric manner.

    After the Moons, same as real death, you have a syllable such as Hum invested with your experiences and concentration. Then you are supposed to meditate back outwardly with an equal and perfect expression of all the rites. That is the main trait that makes it Buddhist; you enter with Bliss and Emerge in Reverse Order. We cannot say that the similar Hindu tantras will not sweep you out of your body and incinerate your ego. We are saying it is done with a set of tools such as Vajradaka with the motivation of Bodhi Mind. It has only one goal, Manifest Buddha.

    An upright crown stupa is correct as an attainment. The inverted one is, for instance, using the legs as the bow or crescent.

    Having Mandarava and Kurukulla as instructors is not something one just "does", and so when something that identifies itself turns out to be closely related to the intended meaning, that is uncanny.

    I listed Kurukulla's laukika siddhis since it should be obvious they are "suggestive", i. e. one is not necessarily rubbing ointment on one's feet, but there is a worldly or form power which works imaginatively like that. She is one of the few that refers to these.

    Kurukulla is not a Stupa deity that I can recall--you have an empty one. Empty is Prajnaparamita, She is a book carried by Manjushri and many other deities. She is really in Vajra Family. Everything is a flow from Prajnaparamita, whose ultimate form is Guhyeshvari.

    So it sounds to me like you are being groomed for who to put in there.

    "Arising historically from the chaitya (funerary mounds) of early Buddhism and symbolically from the tope (ushnisha), bundle of hair, on the crown of the Buddha's head, the stupa is viewed as a physical representation of the unseen enlightened mind of a Buddha - incorporating both the blueprint for the path to enlightenment and enlightenment itself."

    The main Boudhnath Stupa in Nepal is Avalokiteshvara. Note the proximity of Parasol, White, and Green Tara:








    Nepalese Prajnaparamita in Stupa over Akshobya and Vajrapani:








    In Nepal, when you reach the age of 77 years, 7 months, 7 days, 7 hours and 7 minutes, they hold a Chariot Ritual; the festivities of the day require the elder to mount a chariot and ride through the city accompanied by the performance of various religious services in front of a sacred stupa.









    That one has Usnisa Vijaya over Vasudhara over Manjushri.

    Marici also uses a Stupa, and there are deities crowned by a Stupa, and maybe a few other variations. Vajra Tara also enters it I believe. So there are a handful of the main Yoga goddesses it works with.

    That is where you attempt to gain the Tri-Samadhi or Tri-kaya of the deity.

    I have never done that. I have gone through the Abhisambodhi sequence in a generic, weak way, without the advices of Buddhism, so I can state that it is a fact in nature. But that is much different from what they are teaching as Tattva Devata carried through these several stages.
    Last edited by shaberon; 13th July 2020 at 09:42.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Old Student, with much respect to you, Agape and Shaberon, I just want to say that I had a similar, but not the same experience. Not a second body but a perfected me.

    Briefly, I hadn't had any alcohol in about 4 years. I had somehow and inexplicably achieved a wonderful balance of non ego, physical exertion, balance, intention, etc.

    I began to take baths. I was compelled to do so several times a day.

    One morning I woke up. I was taller and I was beautiful. Filled with an inner light and I literally glowed. I saw the same light in all around me. This lasted three days. Knowledge came to me. A lot of knowledge.

    I was completely in the moment at all times. Funny, but I was compelled to listen to music. It saved me. It was heartbreakingly beautiful. I could hear it to a point where I would weep.

    Then, I began to get attacked. I was on someone or some thing's radar. It was terrifying.

    For two days I locked myself in my bathroom with my dog. I could hear sounds of a terrifying wind and felt as if I was in a vortex. I died to myself. I was still here in body and could think, but all was gone but I (eye). I thought "Am I dead?"

    I prayed. I was delivered by some one or some thing. Then I had a breakthrough with the most exquisite energy internally. It answered wordless questions and showed me things like certain passages of Rumi's. I could understand the symbolism in every single thing I saw.

    The strange thing to me was that I didn't try to do this. It just happened and I was to understand the actions of my whole life had been to bring me to this point.

    I guess that's all. I'm not really sure what to say except I have never subscribed to any one religion or idea, but have explored many and found truths.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
    Old Student, with much respect to you, Agape and Shaberon, I just want to say that I had a similar, but not the same experience. Not a second body but a perfected me.

    Briefly, I hadn't had any alcohol in about 4 years. I had somehow and inexplicably achieved a wonderful balance of non ego, physical exertion, balance, intention, etc.

    I began to take baths. I was compelled to do so several times a day.

    One morning I woke up. I was taller and I was beautiful. Filled with an inner light and I literally glowed. I saw the same light in all around me. This lasted three days. Knowledge came to me. A lot of knowledge.

    I was completely in the moment at all times. Funny, but I was compelled to listen to music. It saved me. It was heartbreakingly beautiful. I could hear it to a point where I would weep.

    Then, I began to get attacked. I was on someone or some thing's radar. It was terrifying.

    For two days I locked myself in my bathroom with my dog. I could hear sounds of a terrifying wind and felt as if I was in a vortex. I died to myself. I was still here in body and could think, but all was gone but I (eye). I thought "Am I dead?"

    I prayed. I was delivered by some one or some thing. Then I had a breakthrough with the most exquisite energy internally. It answered wordless questions and showed me things like certain passages of Rumi's. I could understand the symbolism in every single thing I saw.

    The strange thing to me was that I didn't try to do this. It just happened and I was to understand the actions of my whole life had been to bring me to this point.

    I guess that's all. I'm not really sure what to say except I have never subscribed to any one religion or idea, but have explored many and found truths.
    Wonderful, beautiful experiences Valerie and Old Student. Really enjoyed reading your input. I have had a similar phenomenon happen to me but without the accompanying "feelings" and breakthroughs. For me it began around the end of 2006/beginning 2007. I had a couple of huge experiences in 2007 where light was literally gushing out of me - my arms, legs, back, sides, back, forehead and top of my head. I think "gushing" is a good description for how it felt and looked - I recall being in a field of golden light that looked to be made up of tiny golden triangles and there was a golden conical shape that was undulating a bit and moving slowly from right to left in my field of vision. The light just kept pumping out and I remember wondering when it would stop. I was with other people who witnessed this and there was a lot of noise, shouting, etc. around me so it was difficult to concentrate. I recall opening my eyes and seeing a gorgeous kaleidoscope of colours within a net that I couldn't see through - light was coming out of my eyes and people seemed to think I was having some kind of revelation. This was certainly wonderful to see and be caught up in but my mind was very much in charge and I could not shut it down. So apart from the phenomena, I did not receive or have the amazing experience and breakthroughs you and Old Student had which are obviously more valuable. In fact, I felt frustration, paranoia and other heavy emotions. Directly after this particular incident (and others), I was absolutely exhausted and could not move or speak for quite some time. Since this incident, I have experienced this light phenomena many times in varying degrees of intensity. In fact, some weeks ago, I had what I would describe as a rather intense, shamanic experience between 1 and 3 a.m. where I was "blooming" and filling up my bedroom. I find the light comes out in different ways - spiralling, blooming, gushing, etc. are good ways to describe my individual experiences. Usually and unfortunately, all this is accompanied with lots of invasive thoughts and I end up during most of these incidents in conflict with my mind. So, in the end, it just becomes phenomena and I am unable to "take" it further to a "higher" level. I am very drawn to this thread and reading Old Student and your experiences with other bodies. I thank Old Student and Shaberon for such detailed analysis and understanding of clear body experiences - although much is over my head, it is a really informative and interesting read.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    In researching these subjects, I have found that Ngor Monastery is a major agent of lineages related to Indian Tara as well as of an ever-evolving white goddess going from something like Vajra Tara--->Mrtyuvacana-->Amaravajra, along with the more well-known ones.

    Kurukulla has not been something I have ever really understood, and, in the analysis, my method has been to cut away and ignore everything, until it forces its way in, by being the thing that defined the next stage or process in Yoga. And so there are strand of relatively non-tantric white goddesses, followed by what we might call a Drop of Nectar, followed by White Kurukulla, who goes through advanced development of the throat center as a state more like Nectar Saturation.

    Then she came back when inquiring about Noose power, which itself is mostly on other deities, eminently, Aparajita, who is not that well-known, but again has a basic level which continues until being a Witness of Buddha's Enlightenment. That was the subject, Noose, which turned out to be quite complex and summoned Kurukulla back into the mix.

    This is Ngor Kurukulla in one of her only known mandalas:






    She has twenty Taras around her outside of the circle. You can tell because the upper left red one has the raised hands--Pravira or Fast Hero Tara. The second is Cunda with many hands.

    In Kurukulla's retinue, it is not a normal Offering group. This is meta-Matangi or celestial music and similar sounds that can follow the Lamp stage while mind of form dissolves into bare space. It is not an attempt to access Ekajati, it is a swift crossing over her. It is worth attention since the practice is from Indrabhuti and Lakshminkara.

    Often, this and Nairatma are considered red and blue copies of each other--visually, pretty much so, but Kurukulla seems to have her own message.

    Here, there is a "doubling" of Aparajita (Noose) like the "double" Khandaroha in Chakrasamvara. The strangeness is the Gatekeepers. In the mandala the retinue are all virtually Kurukulla in form; it is only the Gatekeepers who are different. All of the Gatekepers have hook, noose, and bell; there is no chain, which is the normal western magnetizing device; each has a personal item:

    Fat Red Akshobya Tarjani Vetali
    Yellow Ratna Staff Aparajita
    Fat Blue Amitabha Vajra Ekajati
    Fat Golden Amoghasiddhi Sword Gandhari; or, Kanaka Syamam, dark gold or green gold. On a woman it is understood as golden. And since it is Gandhari, it is celestial sound.


    Kurukulla's first Tara is Prasanna, then Nispanna (Completion Stage), Jaya, and Karna (Ears). Kurukulla's second ring of Taras has Northeast Cunda, then Aparajita, Pradipa, Gauri, in the corners. That means Aparajita is in the southeast, or Agni corner. Pradipa or Lamp Offering Tara rarely appears out of the normal Offering group, but, she is Red with Kurukulla, and Yellow with Vajra Tara. Note that when Cunda is with Manjuvajra, she also occupies the northeast.

    Ekajati is guarding the west, which again is her unusual position with Amoghapasha. So is "That" Noose related to "this" Kurukulla? Here, Ekajati clearly enters Lotus Family whilst holding a Vajra.

    There is also Vetali, who has pushed Ekajati out of Vajra Family. Vetali means a dead corpse, one that keeps going, like a zombie. And in the tantras, after the stage of Empty Niche or Body-less consort, one of the first to arise there should be Vetali. She is an evolution of:

    Peaceful Manjushri with Sarasvati

    to

    Wrathful Yamantaka Vajrabhairava Manjushri with Vetali

    It breaks the more traditional naming scheme of Bhairava with Bhairavi. In Buddhism, Vetali is the or a main one who has this role, whereas there is also a Vajra Bhairavi, who is more specifically restricted to only a few rites.

    Vetali is herself the teacher of Vajrabhairava Tantra.


    In Twenty-one Taras, the second Tara is alternately Sarasvati or Cunda in moon-colored form. Sarasvati emphasizes Sound with her Lute, whereas Cunda is more like the many lunar states.

    Cunda at Pattikera. Pattikera is identified with a place in Tipperah district. This is a sixteen armed figure of the goddess, while an eighteen-armed representation (9th century) of the goddess was found from Niyamatpur (Rajshahi). The site of Sixteen Arm Cunda also shows a land grant in favor of Durga Tara or Durgottarini.

    Durgottarini is Dhruvam Arya Tara. Probably the only one. So that is a balanced collection of practices with centered, balanced energy extending above the head, Dhruva, or Pole Star, which physically changes through the ages, but the personal pole is the opposite direction from the core of the earth.

    Durgottarini wrecks the ordinary concept of Green Tara. Usually, Green Tara is remembered as born from the tears of Avalokiteshvara, which is Lotus Family, which is appropriate for a few practices. Durga however also has several forms born from the eyes or minds of deities. But these Green Taras are of a very difficult Family, Karma or Amoghasiddhi, which is why this aspect is probably not mentioned to beginners.

    The very color Green is problematic in a way that scholars have been oblivious to. And so there are rare sadhanas that may call for a shade of Purple, or Pink, but the greens are always various hues, which can be rapidly explained by Nepalese art.


    Amoghasiddhi is Haritam, lighter vegetative green, and Samaya Tara on the lower left is Syama or Dark Green. Sambhoga Kaya Tara in the middle is Blue-Green:







    Descending on the right are Dhanada, Three Eyed White Tara, Mahacina, and Vajra Tara. Dhanada is a misunderstood "green wealth" Tara who is really a mandala instructor at a stage shortly before Durgottarini; White Tara, again, has specific lineages related to Ngor that almost betray her popular concept as a Longevity goddess; Mahacina is an older, fundamental Blue Vajrayogini confused with Ekajati; and the central, lower Vajra Tara is about the largest and most appropriate receptacle for everything in the partially-destroyed Indian system. So this is a rare and quite esoteric format, which may be a personal practice. Some of these thangkas are purely personal, representing an accumulation of practices that someone was able to tie together--and if we can see how it fits the inner meaning, there is no dispute.

    Syama and Samaya cause spelling errors and confusion; however, it is almost never correct to name Tara by a color. Therefor after the basic concept of Five Families, we can turn around and say:

    The only basic Red Tara is Cunda.

    The only basic Yellow Tara is Cintamani.

    When we say "basic", it generally means they appear from Tam syllable, they use the normal Tara mantra, and do not do a whole lot besides make a samaya to that color or family. Then as soon as you poke around in Yellow a bit, there is Bhrkuti who does one thing, and Vasudhara another, and further along, occult Yellow is perhaps the most important color or power.

    Pandara does not personally do very much, but, her mantra is nearly the same as for Simhanada Avalokiteshvara. And it turns out they are used together in a practice that delves into Jwala Malini. I have not figured this one out yet, but it perhaps is useful for someone who has realized Pandara.

    The only one of them I "have" is Tara, which has only been empowered by Prajnaparamita Heart Sutra. This does not talk about the heart in some psychological way, it "is" the heart of Prajnaparamita. It has many versions, but here is a good Sanskrit one. It cuts a paragraph off the end after the mantra, which, again, if we recited it, this would tend to use Om one time, and then repeat:

    Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate Bodhi Svaha


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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Thank you for this, it points to some things I feel, and others I do not or do not yet.

    I
    Quote was completely in the moment at all times. Funny, but I was compelled to listen to music. It saved me. It was heartbreakingly beautiful. I could hear it to a point where I would weep.
    I keep thinking this is about to happen, but it doesn't, most of my shakings have had no music in them. The one exception was the night after I listened to Daiqing Tana sing "Ongmanibamei" (on YouTube), that night there was a sound like music was about to start.

    Quote I could hear sounds of a terrifying wind and felt as if I was in a vortex. I died to myself.
    i wonder what this means. When I was pointed towards the place towards which is death, there was alsos swirling there (and cold).

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    This sounds awesome, Jill, thank you.

    Quote In fact, some weeks ago, I had what I would describe as a rather intense, shamanic experience between 1 and 3 a.m. where I was "blooming" and filling up my bedroom.
    I have had gushing, but I distinctly feel like it stays within "me", although there are times I am not sure what "me" is as I become scenes often.

    Quote Usually and unfortunately, all this is accompanied with lots of invasive thoughts and I end up during most of these incidents in conflict with my mind.
    If I look through my notes there are a lot of these. My "concentration" method is "listening" which comes from push hands, it is really more of "following" my body (whichever one) without directing or controlling it, sometimes my mind quiets when I do that, and sometimes it is off in the distance still chattering away.

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    Default Re: Does Anybody Else Have Clear Body Experiences?

    Quote Drop of milk + crescent sounds like bindu and nada?
    Most of the time like an upside down one.

    Quote After the Moons, same as real death, you have a syllable such as Hum invested with your experiences and concentration. Then you are supposed to meditate back outwardly with an equal and perfect expression of all the rites. That is the main trait that makes it Buddhist; you enter with Bliss and Emerge in Reverse Order.
    This one I only understand with respect to one symbol that occurs, a pillar. It takes two forms, one is a very thin silvery thread from my crown to perineum, that if I look at it closer, is filled with faces and seems to have everyone ever in it. The other is that it is a very solid pillar with a base and fluting and the base is in a pastoral scene like a garden and stream, I am the garden and stream (it's a motif I "dissolve" into called "brown-skinned earth"). This pillar is very tall, there are clouds and storms part way up. I can enter it, and will "lucid dream" while inside. I have to back out the way I came in, but I don't know what happens if I don't, only that I have to do that.

    Quote Kurukulla is not a Stupa deity that I can recall--you have an empty one. Empty is Prajnaparamita, She is a book carried by Manjushri and many other deities. She is really in Vajra Family. Everything is a flow from Prajnaparamita, whose ultimate form is Guhyeshvari.

    So it sounds to me like you are being groomed for who to put in there.

    "Arising historically from the chaitya (funerary mounds) of early Buddhism and symbolically from the tope (ushnisha), bundle of hair, on the crown of the Buddha's head, the stupa is viewed as a physical representation of the unseen enlightened mind of a Buddha - incorporating both the blueprint for the path to enlightenment and enlightenment itself."
    Prajnaparamita is both the book and the deity at the same time? This sounds like the way things change form in my shakings a lot.

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