All about "IQ" (whatever that means!)

[Ernie Nemeth]

IQ, like all testing these days, heavily favors left-brain tasks - the manipulation of visual data and the applicable deductive reasoning required.

Since a disputable 80% of all professions are populated by mediocre employees, merely there to collect a paycheck and incapable and uninterested in self-improvement or uplifting others, the education system is pumping out functional illiterates at an astounding rate. Ignorant of almost any topic but full of opinions on everything.

These same authorities who are responsible for this atrocity, the purposeful subjugation of intellect to the limited sphere of the material in all its guises and de-emphasizing the holistic and comprehensive inductive faculty, then compile tests that measure a general intelligence quotient. But what is worse is that most fall for the trap of this insidious eugenic mind set.

I test at 145. My ex at 154. You know what that tells me? You can be pretty smart and dumb as a sack of nails at the same time. (no insult intended toward the wife)

Mod note from Bill: I moved this post from the Systemic Racism in America thread, where it truly was off-topic. But this new thread might be valuable. (We can discuss 'EQ' and 'SQ' as well, maybe, which might be far more interesting.)

[RunningDeer]

Resources:

• Howard Gardener, The 9 Types of Intelligence
• “7 (Seven) Kinds of Smart: Identifying and Developing Your Multiple Intelligences,” by: Thomas Armstrong
• “Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQ,” by: Daniel Goleman.

1. Naturalist Intelligence (“Nature Smart”)
 
Designates the human ability to discriminate among living things (plants, animals) as well as sensitivity to other features of the natural world (clouds, rock configurations).  This ability was clearly of value in our evolutionary past as hunters, gatherers, and farmers; it continues to be central in such roles as botanist or chef.  It is also speculated that much of our consumer society exploits the naturalist intelligences, which can be mobilized in the discrimination among cars, sneakers, kinds of makeup, and the like. 
 
2. Musical Intelligence (“Musical Smart”)
 
Musical intelligence is the capacity to discern pitch, rhythm, timbre, and tone.  This intelligence enables us to recognize, create, reproduce, and reflect on music, as demonstrated by composers, conductors, musicians, vocalist, and sensitive listeners.  Interestingly, there is often an affective connection between music and the emotions; and mathematical and musical intelligences may share common thinking processes.  Young adults with this kind of intelligence are usually singing or drumming to themselves.  They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss.

3. Logical-Mathematical Intelligence (“Number/Reasoning Smart”)
 
Logical-mathematical intelligence is the ability to calculate, quantify, consider propositions and hypotheses, and carry out complete mathematical operations.  It enables us to perceive relationships and connections and to use abstract, symbolic thought; sequential reasoning skills; and inductive and deductive thinking patterns.  Logical intelligence is usually well developed in mathematicians, scientists, and detectives.  Young adults with lots of logical intelligence are interested in patterns, categories, and relationships.  They are drawn to arithmetic problems, strategy games and experiments.
 
4. Existential Intelligence
 
Sensitivity and capacity to tackle deep questions about human existence, such as the meaning of life, why do we die, and how did we get here.
 
5. Interpersonal Intelligence (“People Smart”)
 
Interpersonal intelligence is the ability to understand and interact effectively with others.  It involves effective verbal and nonverbal communication, the ability to note distinctions among others, sensitivity to the moods and temperaments of others, and the ability to entertain multiple perspectives.  Teachers, social workers, actors, and politicians all exhibit interpersonal intelligence.  Young adults with this kind of intelligence are leaders among their peers, are good at communicating, and seem to understand others’ feelings and motives.
 
6. Bodily-Kinesthetic Intelligence (“Body Smart”)
 
Bodily kinesthetic intelligence is the capacity to manipulate objects and use a variety of physical skills.  This intelligence also involves a sense of timing and the perfection of skills through mind–body union.  Athletes, dancers, surgeons, and craftspeople exhibit well-developed bodily kinesthetic intelligence.
 
7. Linguistic Intelligence (“Word Smart”)
 
Linguistic intelligence is the ability to think in words and to use language to express and appreciate complex meanings.  Linguistic intelligence allows us to understand the order and meaning of words and to apply meta-linguistic skills to reflect on our use of language.  Linguistic intelligence is the most widely shared human competence and is evident in poets, novelists, journalists, and effective public speakers.  Young adults with this kind of intelligence enjoy writing, reading, telling stories or doing crossword puzzles.
 
8. Intra-personal Intelligence (“Self Smart”)
 
Intra-personal intelligence is the capacity to understand oneself and one’s thoughts and feelings, and to use such knowledge in planning and directioning one’s life.  Intra-personal intelligence involves not only an appreciation of the self, but also of the human condition.  It is evident in psychologist, spiritual leaders, and philosophers.  These young adults may be shy.  They are very aware of their own feelings and are self-motivated.
 
9. Spatial Intelligence (“Picture Smart”)
 
Spatial intelligence is the ability to think in three dimensions.  Core capacities include mental imagery, spatial reasoning, image manipulation, graphic and artistic skills, and an active imagination.  Sailors, pilots, sculptors, painters, and architects all exhibit spatial intelligence.  Young adults with this kind of intelligence may be fascinated with mazes or jigsaw puzzles, or spend free time drawing or daydreaming.
 
* From: Overview of the Multiple Intelligences Theory.  Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development and Thomas Armstrong.com

[RunningDeer]

“Bodily-Kinesthetic Intelligence” (“Body Smart”) is one of the 9 types of multiple intelligences.

River Dance - Ibeyi/Irish Dance (2:43 min)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=3FuhaFwers8

No Diggity/Shape of You- Irish Dance Cover (2:56 min)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=knflVM6gYYg

Hamilton Irish Dance- Guns and Ships (1:31 min)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=h6NWqodAA34

[Bill Ryan]

This classic modern-day Aesop's Fable, which many may already know, is often cited as a teaching-point — a cautionary tale! — about 'SQ', or Spiritual Intelligence.

• https://corporatemonkeycpa.com/2016/...isherman-story

The Fisherman and the Businessman, by Paulo Coelho

~~~

There was once a businessman who was sitting by the beach in a small Brazilian village.

As he sat, he saw a Brazilian fisherman rowing a small boat towards the shore having caught quite few big fish.

The businessman was impressed and asked the fisherman, “How long does it take you to catch so many fish?”

The fisherman replied, “Oh, just a short while.”

“Then why don’t you stay longer at sea and catch even more?” The businessman was astonished.

“This is enough to feed my whole family,” the fisherman said.

The businessman then asked, “So, what do you do for the rest of the day?”

The fisherman replied, “Well, I usually wake up early in the morning, go out to sea and catch a few fish, then go back and play with my kids. In the afternoon, I take a nap with my wife, and evening comes, I join my buddies in the village for a drink — we play guitar, sing and dance throughout the night.” The businessman offered a suggestion to the fisherman.

“I am a PhD in business management. I could help you to become a more successful person. From now on, you should spend more time at sea and try to catch as many fish as possible. When you have saved enough money, you could buy a bigger boat and catch even more fish. Soon you will be able to afford to buy more boats, set up your own company, your own production plant for canned food and distribution network. By then, you will have moved out of this village and to Sao Paulo, where you can set up HQ to manage your other branches.”

The fisherman continues, “And after that?”

The businessman laughs heartily, “After that, you can live like a king in your own house, and when the time is right, you can go public and float your shares in the Stock Exchange, and you will be rich.”

The fisherman asks, “And after that?”

The businessman says, “After that, you can finally retire, you can move to a house by the fishing village, wake up early in the morning, catch a few fish, then return home to play with kids, have a nice afternoon nap with your wife, and when evening comes, you can join your buddies for a drink, play the guitar, sing and dance throughout the night!”

The fisherman was puzzled: “Isn’t that what I am doing now?”

[Agape]

Really , don’t worry about Ernie, 🐨 I always fit in as smart idiot.

Many of my friends are that way too, each in their own complicated and unique manner.



Bigger the light, bigger the shadow as they say. It’s how nature balances itself. When I’m at my smartest I’m virtually useless to anything.

The Old Man and the Young Man
The child and the wisdom
walk always hand in hand


I banned myself from testing IQ tests at some point, you figure out why. There is so much new to learn everyday and Life keeps offering countless puzzles to solve.

Don’t overload self is important. Our true potential is immeasurable

🙏🌟🙏

[Mike]

here's an interesting short video on IQ. Jordan Peterson. Roughly 7 mins.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Cycon01RT18

[Bill Ryan]

I posted this a couple years ago on this thread:

• Introducing Christopher Langan, a VERY smart man who thinks WAY out of the box

~~~

• At IQ levels above 200, it's really hard to measure accurately. Research into past geniuses has led many to conclude that William Sidis was the most exceptional prodigy, with an IQ maybe approaching 300. See this very interesting short video.

• What that even means is hard to define. He was a little like the character played by Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting. He'd written books in 7 different languages by the age of 6. But he never changed, or even influenced, the world, one bit.

• Even more important is that Intellectual Intelligence (measured by IQ), Emotional Intelligence and Spiritual Intelligence are all different, and pretty much independent of each other. In many people, one of those can be very high, while the others are normal or even a little low. It's a rare person who's high in all three.

• Anyone who's hung around Mensa members (the best-known of the various high-IQ societies) knows how extraordinarily dumb, unaware and unintelligent they can be.

• Very smart people can often be VERY smart at justifying their opinions... to themselves. They're often not at all good at listening to others, because they've already decided. long ago, that they're always right. But just because they can think quickly and are good at logic puzzles, that REALLY doesn't mean their opinions on human, societal, moral and cultural issues are 'right'.

[Savannah]

I started out as a school psychologist in the early eighties and thus my primary role was individual testing and my dissertation was on Emotional Intelligence (Mayer & Salovey). It was shocking to me when I first took a dive into IQ testing that IQ was defined “what the test measures”. Meaning it means nothing more than how you did on the test. Certainly an IQ score has been correlated with numerous traits, abilities and quantitative measures, but we know correlation is not causation. Thus high income and high IQ does not mean your “smart” and thus that causes you to earn more money. It means they just go together sometimes. In the early eighties the field was only giving lip service to the idea that intelligence was multifaceted and few in the age of Pavlovian/Skinner Behaviorism saw emotions as import and certainly not a component of intelligence. Only one sub test on the Wechsler scale can be seen to measure social judgment. Later IQ tests like the Kaufman started looking at left/right brain skills. My research found that academic achievement was more strongly correlated with EQ than IQ. Meaning the stronger your emotional intelligence the higher your grades. However again I’m not saying it causes it alone but like traditional IQ it contributes to achievement. That finding is significant because IQ is perceived of as fixed trait, due primarily to hereditary and unchangeable. EQ, while somewhat inherited is primarily a learned skill and thus malleable, teachable. Those with high IQ may have low EQ. An autistic savant may max out certain numerical IQ sub-test and score in the defiant range on all others. Humans are complex and when Binet-simon (1904) and the Military developed the first IQ tests they reflected our limited understanding then of what we now perceive humans are, multidimensional beings not measured by “mind” alone.

[AutumnW]

I know someone who is listed as one of the smartest people on the planet. Unfortunately she has accomplished little in over a decade and can be profoundly rude to boot. One of the few times she came to my place for dinner, we were conversing and she would go completely quiet and instruct me to stay on topic!!

Who does that? And I wasn't digressing any more or less than anybody else tends to. Very bizarre. She also told my sister she thought my husband was a **** for brains the following day. Again, who eats someone's food and then pronounces judgement on their intellect?

She's an alcoholic, completely non athletic as well. Given a choice I'll take EQ over IQ and the unbelievable arrogance that goes with it.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
I know someone who is listed as one of the smartest people on the planet. Unfortunately she has accomplished little in over a decade and can be profoundly rude to boot. One of the few times she came to my place for dinner, we were conversing and she would go completely quiet and instruct me to stay on topic!!

Who does that? And I wasn't digressing any more or less than anybody else tends to. Very bizarre. She also told my sister she thought my husband was a **** for brains the following day. Again, who eats someone's food and then pronounces judgement on their intellect?

She's an alcoholic, completely non athletic as well. Given a choice I'll take EQ over IQ and the unbelievable arrogance that goes with it.

Who does that? Maybe, someone with Asperger's Syndrome ... who might have a very high intellect yet be significantly emotionally impaired.

It's not even their fault: they just can't detect and understand standard emotional cues that most kids learn very early. With an IQ of 180+, their 'EQ' might be close to zero. It's like being color blind. If something's not logical, they simply don't know what to do.

That's not a label for just anyone with Asperger's, at all. It's not a discriminatory (or generalized) comment. But it does apply to some people.

[Mike]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
I know someone who is listed as one of the smartest people on the planet. Unfortunately she has accomplished little in over a decade and can be profoundly rude to boot. One of the few times she came to my place for dinner, we were conversing and she would go completely quiet and instruct me to stay on topic!!

Who does that? And I wasn't digressing any more or less than anybody else tends to. Very bizarre. She also told my sister she thought my husband was a **** for brains the following day. Again, who eats someone's food and then pronounces judgement on their intellect?

She's an alcoholic, completely non athletic as well. Given a choice I'll take EQ over IQ and the unbelievable arrogance that goes with it.

Why didn't you slap her? My God, what a ****.

This is a slightly uncomfortable topic for me. One of my great worries growing up was that I was slow or subnormal in some way. My grades were ok, but as I got into my teens I found it increasingly difficult to perform problem solving tasks or deal with anything abstract. I began to think I was just dumb! I had no mental stamina. Couldn't focus at all. I was just out in space.

I later realized that I was suffering from a fatigue disorder, and that was comforting in a weird way. When I gave my body and brain the proper nutrients it needed, I was practically a new man. And of course that got me to wondering how much things like IQ have to do with nutrition and stuff like that.

For all intents and purposes, the SAT's are an IQ test. And when I took it, I was very afraid that I'd finally be exposed as the slow, subnormal kid I feared I was. I lost sleep over it. No joke. And when the results were revealed, the people that did well vis a vis the people who didn't all lined up according to who we all already knew were smart and not so smart. So it is an accurate way to test intelligence; I have no doubt about that.

I wound up performing solidly on it. Not genius level, of course, but not bottom of the barrel either. I often wonder how well I could have done had I been treating myself for my fatigue disorders back then. Truth is, I think I'm more of what Jordan Peterson calls a "creative". I'm cool with that. If an IQ test was offered to me today, I don't think I'd take it

[meeradas]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
That's not a label for just anyone with Asperger's, at all. It's not a discriminatory (or generalized) comment. But it does apply to some people.

Thank you.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Who does that? Maybe, someone with Asperger's Syndrome ... who might have a very high intellect yet be significantly emotionally impaired.

It's not even their fault: they just can't detect and understand standard emotional cues that most kids learn very early. With an IQ of 180+, their 'EQ' might be close to zero. It's like being color blind. If something's not logical, they simply don't know what to do.

Something I witnessed personally. Someone I knew (Friend #1) who was a high-performing Asperger's (meaning, she was extremely smart, and had developed some exceptional skills in some areas) was at my house, and a different Friend #2 was there as well.

Friend #2 was sharing that her husband had suddenly died a short while ago. Friend #1 piped up, "Oh, that's interesting, do you know where he is now?" (She was referring to his spirit, having left his body.)

Friend #2 quietly excused herself, and slipped into the kitchen where she wept quietly for several minutes. Friend #1 never even noticed.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Just a comment to the Jordan video:

Creativity is a cross-disciplinary talent and therefore it can't be said that only intelligent people are creative.

Or put another way, intelligence has nothing to do with creativity.

I've seen children with far more creative talent than those with PHDs.

And I find this topic hard because of how boring school was. I never did homework right through high school and rarely studied for tests. Classes were a drudgery of repetition and by grade ten I no longer even wanted to learn what they were teaching. I preferred my own studies and investigations...

[AutumnW]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
I know someone who is listed as one of the smartest people on the planet. Unfortunately she has accomplished little in over a decade and can be profoundly rude to boot. One of the few times she came to my place for dinner, we were conversing and she would go completely quiet and instruct me to stay on topic!!

Who does that? And I wasn't digressing any more or less than anybody else tends to. Very bizarre. She also told my sister she thought my husband was a **** for brains the following day. Again, who eats someone's food and then pronounces judgement on their intellect?

She's an alcoholic, completely non athletic as well. Given a choice I'll take EQ over IQ and the unbelievable arrogance that goes with it.

Who does that? Maybe, someone with Asperger's Syndrome ... who might have a very high intellect yet be significantly emotionally impaired.

It's not even their fault: they just can't detect and understand standard emotional cues that most kids learn very early. With an IQ of 180+, their 'EQ' might be close to zero. It's like being color blind. If something's not logical, they simply don't know what to do.

That's not a label for just anyone with Asperger's, at all. It's not a discriminatory (or generalized) comment. But it does apply to some people.

Possibly. I know Asperger's well and the person I am most familiar with who had it, had a very high IQ but was socially awkward--but not arrogant. Trust me, this woman is over the top arrogant. Of course someone can be both. That might be the case with this chick.

[Wind]

I was never mathematically well-versed, quite the opposite in fact and it made me feel quite dumb in some sense.

It was nice to learn to know that there are many kinds of intelligences though. My mind does operate in a fast way and I have strong intuition. Also I realized that I have gifts which other people don't have as much and then some people have beautiful gifts that I don't have. Intelligence isn't the same thing as wisdom anyways. Wisdom is gained only through experience. That happens throughout lifetimes.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8N2pnYne0ZA

[Agape]

I also think that high IQ and no matter in what direction, could pay the same for high EQ is a weapon of virtually any capacity ( upto global destruction 😷 ) and should come with a vow.
Anyone in that capacity should confirm to adopting best and universal ethical principles they are aware of and abstain from hurting other living beings, even unintentionally.

Aspergers and OCDs do hurt the person and the family. Sometimes people of all ages do not notice themselves slipping to autistic mode. It’s one of our natural modes of functioning I believe unless it of course turns pathological.

When you’re grieving for dear person for example, there may be complete sense of detachment and depersonalization coming with it,
you may not want to see other people.

But it’s a temporary state we usually come back from.

In cases of severe and often mentally disabled autism, the victim has hardly any choice.

But most of the conscious entities with Aspergers and OCDs do have a choice, steep learning curve in front of them that offers an option to re-experience themselves as “accomplished entities” or it’s mostly a life in traps and mercy of the society who nurtured them.
It’s a difficult choice but I’ve seen some who took on their Aspergers and other forms of social neurosis, replacing their bad habits and lonely days with exceptionally good habits and social relationships.

It’s always worthy to remind ones own self that no matter who you are , you really don’t want or need to end up in institution or another form of human ZOO.


In Spirit of Freedom


🦕


As Shaberon would possibly suggest, your Asperger is your Dhyani Buddha and your OCD is your Karma Dakini 😂

[Catsquotl]

As a father of a few children with high IQ's, some high EQ's. Some both and one or 2 suspected of high SQ's. I can honestly say that life is a bitch whatever the number in those categories. It also has no significance where it comes to what you want in life. That part is rather universal across the board. Feel loved, not having to deal with to much ****e and expectations. ....

[Sarah Rainsong]

Just a quick thought, not only for those posting in this thread but for those reading as well, having a low EQ (emotional intelligence) refers to how one interacts with other people and society, NOT whether or not they have emotions. People with low EQ sometimes come across as cold and heartless, but they're not, they have feelings too, it's just different

I think homeschoolers have a higher rate of non-neurotypical kids, because schools are designed for the NT. Maybe that's why this is a topic that's been discussed many times in those circles. It's always sad to hear about how difficult it is for people who fall outside the normal range in any area.

[Forest Denizen]

I am going to post the following here as it is a more appropriate thread than where it originated from.

Posted by Orobo (here)
Hi,

Like I wrote, it is a dispassionate look. Calling a spade a spade.
I will have to go through your reactions and react myself if that is what you want.
I am not an evil racist guy, quite the opposite. I can put aside my propagandised self and look hard at what lies in fornt of me and compare it to data form science and observations from myself and family living in many European countries. We all see what happens, but dare we say it.
And, be assured, most observations, or timid conclusions are based on averages...things that happen/are in general. Nothing is absolute.
And, yes there is data that I haven't seen. So I can be wrong too. But we can talk about it!

Love, O.

Hey Orobo, it looks like you've done a lot of research on this but I wonder how many of the very important works you have read, that for very good reasons, have critiqued The Bell Curve.

BTW, I believe you are likely aware that the work was not peer reviewed before publication. It has also been much discussed in a number of statistical reviews as a classic example of the improper use of statistics, a subject I may have mentioned in another thread.

You might find the following interview interesting. I found it fascinating.. it's about 18 minutes long. The interviewee and author of the book, The Meritocracy Trap, presents very well constructed arguments as to why everyone is not playing on a level field. I think this has clear implications regarding IQ.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and...y-doesnt-work/

The Transcript is quite long so I'll hold off from adding it here for the moment.