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Thread: The Eradication of Smallpox

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Eradication of Smallpox

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    The Vaccine producers wrote the history --I suspect.
    That's incorrect. Please do some reading!

    Back in the 1970s there was very little if any controversy about vaccines. You're making the error of mapping present day issues on to events that happened over 40 years ago.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Eradication of Smallpox

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    The Vaccine producers wrote the history --I suspect.
    That's incorrect. Please do some reading!

    Back in the 1970s there was very little if any controversy about vaccines. You're making the error of mapping present day issues on to events that happened over 40 years ago.
    The "I suspect" leaves it open Bill.
    I dont have to be right.
    My post was poetic licence, just to use an expression that spontaneously came to mind..
    Perhaps, just perhaps, there should have been some controversy over vaccines.

    If I remember polio was a big deal when I was young.
    Was that vaccine without risk?
    I dont know.
    Was it mentioned in Luke's post? --I will have to look out of interest
    I have a massive challenge with reading these days.
    Dyslexia got much worse with age Im afraid
    Chris
    Last edited by greybeard; 21st July 2020 at 19:47.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The Eradication of Smallpox

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    The Vaccine producers wrote the history --I suspect.
    That's incorrect. Please do some reading!

    Back in the 1970s there was very little if any controversy about vaccines. You're making the error of mapping present day issues on to events that happened over 40 years ago.
    The "I suspect" leaves it open Bill.
    I dont have to be right.
    My post was poetic licence, just to use and expression that spontaneously came to mind..
    Perhaps, just perhaps, there should have been some controversy over vaccines.

    If I remember polio was a big deal when I was young.
    Was that vaccine without risk?
    I dont know.
    Chris
    Chris, please. If you don't know, and just suspect something or other, please take a moment to add real value to the discussion — meaning, something substantial that readers can think about, consider, and learn from. (At least Luke Holiday tried to do that by looking up something that was interesting, detailed and relevant!)

    This isn't Facebook, Twitter, or a bunch of YouTube comments posted by people who just have a sudden thought or emotion pop into their head. I know you're on the forum much of the day, and that you often have no-one to talk to. I really understand that. But this is a library, a university, an intelligent and informed discussion group with hundreds of people in the room, and over ten times that number watching and listening. We always have to be aware of that.


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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Eradication of Smallpox

    Something substantial Bill about polio
    From Luke's post.
    So perhaps there should have been more investigation at that time -- some times you have to dive deep to get the true story.
    Luke has
    Chris

    “But already before Salk developed his vaccine, polio had been constantly regressing; the 39 cases out of every 100,000 inhabitants registered in 1942 had gradually diminished from year to year until they were reduced to only 15 cases in 1952… according to M. Beddow Baylay, the English surgeon and medical historian.” Slaughter of the Innocent, Hans Reusch, Civitas Publish ers, Switzerland, and Swain, New York, 1983.

    “Many published stories and reports have stated, implied and otherwise led professional people and the public to believe that the sharp reduction of cases (and of deaths) from poliomyelitis in 1955 as compared to 1954 is attributable to the Salk vaccine…That it is a misconception follows from these considerations. The number of children inoculated has been too small to account for the decrease. The sharp decrease was apparent before the inoculations began or could take effect and was of the same order as the decrease following the immediate post-inoculation period.” Dr. Herbert Ratner, Child and Family, vol. 20, no. 1, 1987.

    “So far it is hardly possible to gain insight into the extent of the immunization catastrophe of 1955 in the United States. It may be considered certain that the officially ascertained 200 cases (of polio) which were caused directly or indirectly by the (polio) vaccination constitute minimum figures… It can hardly be estimated how many of the 1359 (polio) cases among vaccinated persons must be regarded as failures of the vaccine and how many of them were infected by the vaccine. A careful study of the epidemiologic course of polio in the United States yields indications of grave significance. In numerous states of the U.S.A., typical early epidemics developed with the immunizations in the spring of 1955…The vaccination incidents of the year 1955 cannot be exclusively traced back to the failure of one manufacturing firm.” Dr. Herbert Ratner, Child and Family, 1980, vol. 19, no. 4, “Story of the Salk Vaccine (Part 2).”

    “Suffice it to say that most of the large (polio) epidemics that have occurred in this country since the introduction of the Salk vaccine have followed the wide-scale use of the vaccine and have been characterized by an uncommon early seasonal onset. To name a few, there is the Massachusetts epidemic of 1955; the Chicago epidemic of 1956; and the Des Moines epidemic of 1959.” Dr. Herbert Ratner, Child and Family, 1980 vol. 19, no. 4.

    “The live (Sabin) poliovirus vaccine has been the predominant cause of domestically arising cases of paralytic poliomyelitis in the United States since 1972. To avoid the occurrence of such cases, it would be necessary to discontinue the routine use of live poliovirus vaccine.” Jonas Salk, Science, March 4, 1977, p. 845.
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: The Eradication of Smallpox

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Something substantial Bill about polio
    Many thanks for that, Chris, and yes, I entirely agree about polio.

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    Default Re: The Eradication of Smallpox

    For reader I think this would bean excellent book
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plague-Corr...5363641&sr=8-2

    Plague of Corruption: Restoring Faith in the Promise of Science (Children’s Health Defense)

    From Bill:
    Yes, in the Avalon Library here.


    http://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/Judy%20Mikovits%2C%20Kent%20Heckenlively%20-%20Plague%20of%20Corruption%20-%20Restoring%20Faith%20in%20the%20Promise%20of%20Science.pdf
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 21st July 2020 at 20:40.
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    Default Re: The Eradication of Smallpox

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Dear Friends,

    After an interesting exchange with Avalon member One on a different thread, summarized here, I figured it might be interesting to share something about the eradication of smallpox — one of man's very greatest scourges over the centuries.

    I intend no ill-will towards Onewhatsoever. I simply realized from his replies, which were all well-intended, that many people just don't know about this, or properly understand what happened. It's part of our recent history, which is documented and real. And some may find it truly very interesting.

    I recommended this excellent book by Richard Preston, a beautifully written page-turner. But I fully understand that few people read books, or now feel they have the time. So here's a concise, 7-minute video that tells the story.


    It explains the concept of "ring vaccination", which was discovered quite by accident. (That's the creation of "firebreaks" to isolate and extinguish each outbreak whenever one occurred.)

    The superhero of the project was D.A. Henderson (even his wife called him "D.A." ), who was a quiet man but an excellent, inspiring, respected leader. He never got his Nobel Prize, though he was one of the most deserving of any. And Richard Preston, all of whose books I've read, appears several times in the video.

    Caveats are in order here.
    This is NOT an endorsement of vaccination for Covid-19, which, whatever one's views, increasingly appears to me to be unlikely to work. (One of several good reasons is that formed antibodies are often either absent completely, or aren't retained for long.) And were a vaccination available, I'd never take it.

    Smallpox is rather different, anyway. As the video explains, smallpox was actually an ideal target for this kind of super-ambitious eradication project. For a start, it was impossible to miss once some unfortunate person contracted it.

    And second, smallpox vaccination really did work. If, unthinkably and we all hope impossibly, there were to be a smallpox outbreak today (that would have HAD to have escaped from a bioweapons lab!), the disease is so very terrible that I'd most definitely want to be vaccinated. I'd argue that the risk management equations virtually mandate that.

    Moreover, strong cases have been made (which I fully understand and agree with) that modern vaccines can be and often are dangerous in many ways to far too many people. That's been more than covered, and excellently too, on other threads.

    So, the point here is merely that it helps us all to know history. No statue to smallpox eradication should ever be destroyed.

    And that's the history of countries, of disease, and of science. We should never be blind, dumb, uninformed Flat-Earthers about these things. Yes, viruses like this really do exist.

    As I posted on the other thread, facts are facts, and that's what helps us to all form good judgments. And often, those facts are nuanced, and require a little more understanding than is made available by simple dismissive one-liners.

    Do watch the video: it's concise and well-made. Better still, read the book, but it's only here as an option to do so... of course. Part of Avalon's mission is to inform as accurately as possible, because good information and self-empowerment go very closely together.

    Bit late to my own party but some good posts in thread.

    Unfortunately for me there is nowhere near enough information in this video to draw any conclusions.

    I'd want to know the specifics of the ring method for a start.
    Were the people in the ring isolated (by instruction or otherwise)?
    Were we at the later stages of the epidemic, acknowledging these diseases naturally die off (from what I have read)?
    Meaning was there any immunity built up already in communities.
    Was sanitation improved as part of the work as per Leicester method (it might copy)?
    How accurate was the reporting/data.
    How was the funding arranged? Was it dependent on results?
    How poor was the reputation of vaccines at the time, given mass inoculation (by admission in video) didn't seem to be working?
    Are there any environmental variations to take into consideration?
    Actual numbers involved in the rings.
    Number of people in rings that had already had smallpox (as above).

    The most compelling part of the video is the seemingly earnest statement that they would perform a ring vaccination and then it would all die out. But is there an assumption being made here, or does the book go into the science used to prove the relationship?

    It could be a fair assumption if not (assuming all above board), but not particularly scientific. Hopefully the book goes into that more thoroughly than the video.

    I really should read Richard Preston's book, but have a long list of other books that have high priority. "Including What Really Makes You Ill?: Why Everything You Thought You Knew About Disease Is Wrong" at about 4th place. Tough gig (dirty job) proving the germ theory wrong though eh? It might be where Exomatrix was coming from though? https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B082ZPVLZ5/

    Sounds like it might not be in your top ten though Bill? Or perhaps you are already acquainted.

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    Default Re: The Eradication of Smallpox

    Thanks Bill. I just got my hardcopy of "Plague of Corruption. Restoring Faith In The Promise of Science" and will get the other one, "Plague", soon. I'd appreciate a PDF of "Plague" here on Avalon if it does not infringe on the authors rights, however that is done.

    Just finished sorting all of my notes from the last 3 months on these subjects. It's been an interesting journey noting how interviews from the same scientist are consistent in detail, as Dr. Mikovits is rarely in need of a question even as she seems open to discuss anything.

    (I'm looking for the quote I had on small pox from one of these scientists, as I remember it in the context of driving pandemics.)
    May have to read another book to find it, but I love doing it.

    My current study is gathering all of the info and collating all of the data on these interrelated subjects to present to others, to keep, but mainly to study. I've asked for some help in filling in some of the scientific deep dives from these pros. Their help will advance my understanding and hopefully add to my list of questions for them and myself.

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    Default Re: The Eradication of Smallpox

    Quote Posted by One (here)
    "What Really Makes You Ill?: Why Everything You Thought You Knew About Disease Is Wrong"
    Here it is, in the Avalon Library.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 21st July 2020 at 23:03.

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    Default Re: The Eradication of Smallpox

    Seulement en Francais?

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    Default Re: The Eradication of Smallpox

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by One (here)
    "What Really Makes You Ill?: Why Everything You Thought You Knew About Disease Is Wrong"
    Here it is, in the Avalon Library.

    Still blithely ripping off other people's intellectual property, eh Bill? I guarantee you haven't asked Mikovitz's permission or these other people. Just take it, hey it's online anyway, why not.

    How do you tell yourself that this is okay? How do you differentiate yourself from someone who goes into a bookstore and pilfers books?

    The last is a rhetorical question. I'm not looking to hear one of your grand rationalizations. Just pointing out what you are obviously doing. Totally disrespectful.

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    Default Re: The Eradication of Smallpox

    Hi,

    This is a big issue and I know there is different opinions and I respect each one of it.

    Here are some interesting information about diseases and vaccines presented as a timeline > https://www.historyofvaccines.org/timeline#EVT_2

    Smallpox is believed to be around since 10.000 BC, you can find on internet drawings of native folks about it. The earliest credible evidence was found in Egyptian mummies who died some 3.000 years ago, first vaccine developed for smallpox was in 1796 by Edward Jenner also the world's first vaccine.

    My personal opinion is that those in power and control are willing to keep things the way it is, using fear against the population, we all know it very well. I failed to see the point to take a vaccine, when all I can see are those villains behind their dashboards controlling "The System" we are living, so it is rigged by the very core, our "leaders" are very corrupted, our "scientists" are easily bought with money, they could care less about people, it is not about saving people, it is all about control, profits and depopulation (yes, they want the world for themselves), for me it is clear enough to say NO for vaccination, and every time I express my opinion about it, I hear all sort of things, even friends calling me ignorant, idiot, and the other beautiful insults (I guess they are not friends after all).
    Truly I keep calm, reading, learning and practicing as much as I can instead of following the mass media brainwashing machine. I am not a pig or cattle in the death line.

    An old saying: "Opinion is somewhere in between knowledge and ignorance".

    Have a nice day folks.
    --
    A chaos to the sense, a Kosmos to the reason.

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    Default Re: The Eradication of Smallpox

    Quote Posted by Hym (here)
    Seulement en Francais?
    Je m'excuse! C'était la version française. Voici la version anglaise.

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    Default Re: The Eradication of Smallpox

    A couple of head-scratchers here. (Note: Smallpox was globally eradicated in the 1970s. The virus only exists in highly secure biolabs in several countries.)

    1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dark_Winter
    Operation Dark Winter was the code name for a senior-level bio-terrorist attack simulation conducted on June 22–23, 2001. It was designed to carry out a mock version of a covert and widespread smallpox attack on the United States.
    2) https://homelandprepnews.com/stories...s-new-contract
    Bavarian Nordic to supply smallpox vaccine to US under new contract
    29 Sept, 2017
    3) https://homelandprepnews.com/stories...st-anticipate/
    ASPR’s Kadlec: Smallpox one of many biothreats U.S. must anticipate
    24 Sept, 2019

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