WINNERS AND LOSERS, Is there a better way?

[thepainterdoug]

Ive given much thought to current issues we are facing today from BLM, destruction of monuments and history , cancel culture , rioting , politics , police and so on.
I have thought to myself , it all distills down to a “winner and loser” concept, which distills down further to the "haves, and the have nots”

If you have, you are safe and want to preserve . if you don't ,you are at risk ,want to acquire , take , or tear down from others who do have with a feeling things are unfair

This is played out in nature out on the plains in a kill, or at a watering hole, where when water is plentiful , a lion and a spring buck will share the wealth of resources with little threat to each other .
But when the watering hole dries up , there is a fierce and seemingly cruel battle to survive. Might makes right. And there is nothing fair about it .

So how can this truth be any different? How can nature be made more equal? Why can’t food and resources be distributed evenly across the land, thus making no need for a predator prey scenario? How could there not be a winner or loser scenario.

Since I am alive, I have understood life to be a meritocracy. Work hard, do well, get ahead. All sports is based on winning and loosing. Work hard , compete and out perform your opponent. Compete and win out. Thats why scores are kept and numbers don't lie. Thats why , no matter how much I want to, I cannot play pro hockey today at age 67 or basketball at my height etc.

So how can all this be undone? What higher realm of vibration ,release of cosmic energy and stars aligning , transform this human 3 d reality we exist in, into something more fair for all ? Well, It can't.

On the other hand, if you see life differently, see that you have always existed prior to being born, , chose your parents and your situation prior to incarnating here, then maybe everything is exactly as it should be.

What if you were born into what you actually chose? What if by way of your previous life choices, you came back here to experience all these realities?
What if you actually chose slavery, the holocaust , Hiroshima, war, starvation and even vacationing here as quarterback Tom Brady or actor Brad Pitt seem to be doing, bathed in all these so called earthly riches.

And what if when you were done with this role , you got to choose another role based on how you dealt with this one?

I hear people talk like, “We create our own reality” and , don't eat meat or drink alcohol and you will vibrate higher etc . Well, I want to see this manifest into a new visionary leader that steps up . I want to see someone imprisoned wrongly , create his reality and get out of prison, or a person paralyzed , create a healthy spine and walk again.

I think as hard as it is to believe .maybe things are exactly as they should be. We have been cast into a play on a 3d stage. There is nothing to fix, only to be played out and experienced. But how we treat our other cast members will be duly noted, and reflect on our next role in the play.

If you see this reality , then you can possibly forgive each other.
If you see your life here as everything, born of inequality, in an unfair world, then you may remain pretty pissed off.

thanks for reading this far

[DeDukshyn]

There is a concept in advanced spirituality, that basically says you are never given more than you have the ability to handle, but at the same time, in order to be at a "new" level you need an opportunity to prove that ability - hence why spiritual work often comes with what we perceive as negative outcomes. These negative outcomes present the opportunity for a new level of spiritual growth.

Many people seeking a much more spiritual life do indeed encounter this, and it often puts them off because they don't understand the connection -- all they notice is that what they judge as negativity has increased. It happened to me to some extent, and why I never completed the Course in Miracles.

However, to think that abolishing all what we perceive as "negative" experiences will lead to the "heaven on earth" that we all seek is incorrect. In this plane of existence the ego will always view experiences as negative - by its very nature its what it does - seeks out that which it believes may cause us harm, and reacts against it. The ego was never intended to be our primary driving force. That said it has the ability to be a great tool of learning for us - to learn about judgement and to motivate us to practice the lack thereof.

Fear is now being used as a weapon that is coming at us in full force, and this will continue for some time as the "Antichrist" (symbolically - not a person but an opposition that will rise to some extent in each of us) rises to attempt to oppose the rising consciousness within humanity. This is an opportunity to recognize that we are (at least a sufficient critical mass), have become ready to face and learn from this well. I do believe that what we are presented with is not beyond our ability to overcome -- how we react is our paper that we hand into the teacher. How we handle that which has been recognized as historically fearful will become paramount. Will we focus our attention and energy to it? become slave to it? Or will we see the "what is" without the traditionally egoic fear and respond to it with love from our sense of knowing?

"Fear" can be transmuted, it can be used practically, when displaced by Love. Without that opportunity, there can be no growth. We need to shift our perceptions, then we will be able to see the path forward.

So in summary, I recognize that the ability to move to the "next level", as I like to call it, has to come with the "boss" at the end of said level ... but its not an external fight as much as it is an internal one; that is the main lesson now. As long as the internal "boss" exists, so too does the appearance of the external one.

Just to be clear ... ignoring the environment is not what I am preaching - responding to it without fearful programmed reactions, that humans have been responding to fear with for thousands of years, is.

[rgray222]

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
Ive given much thought to current issues we are facing today from BLM, destruction of monuments and history , cancel culture , rioting , politics , police and so on.

I think as hard as it is to believe maybe things are exactly as they should be. We have been cast into a play on a 3d stage. There is nothing to fix, only to be played out and experienced. But how we treat our other cast members will be duly noted, and reflect on our next role in the play.

If you see this reality, then you can possibly forgive each other.
If you see your life here as everything, born of inequality, in an unfair world, then you may remain pretty pissed off.

I have had these same thoughts for many years. I truly believe that we have chosen the path we are on and the life we are living. When you actually believe this as I do it brings up a lot of questions, free will do we really have it or not? Why would someone choose to be born into a war zone, into abject poverty, slavery, severe mental or physical disability etc? Are we here to learn lessons or simply have different experiences. Is it all about soul development and spiritual growth? And the most important question of them all if you believe in reincarnation, what is the end game. If we are cycling through births and deaths there must be a reason and there must be an end with a purpose to fulfil.

The questions just pour out one after another with no clear answer but a lot to think about.

It also answers a few questions. You frequently hear people say......life is unfair but if you take that unfairness and spread it over multiple lives it certainly balances everything out. It also explains deja vu and our 6th sense - intuition. It also explains why we have immediate and wonderful connections to people that we have just met. More importantly, it explains toxic relationship, souls that we have previously known in another life but we are not supposed to have a longterm relationship with them in this life.

There is much more but to get back to your question, can we forgive each other. I think that is all about free will and soul/spiritual development. The answer is, yes, without question we can forgive each other.

The more important question is, what should our role be in this life? By that I mean should be advocating for change which we truly believe should be happening? Should we just roll over and let people destroy history, loot, riot and burn buildings? Maybe our role should be to join in and attempt to make change for the better by rioting. Maybe our role should be to advocate for change but attempt to influence people onto the path towards peaceful change. Maybe our role is to pushback hard and prevent this change from ever happening.

At the end of the day, I think you are right when the dust settles no matter the outcome we should be able to forgive each other regardless of how atrocious our life experiences have been. Many but certainly not all of the soldiers that went through the world wars manage to find forgiveness, many enlightened people that have experienced horrific circumstances find forgiveness. I believe it is one of the primary missions/lessons we are here to learn.

[thepainterdoug]

many thanks DeDuckshyn and RGray 222 for offering your thoughts.

[Tyy1907]

In a nut shell earth is a weigh station. It's a challenging place of high learning g that many fall to the wayside in. We're here to help awaken others and to solve the problem of evil - as we are of divine heritage. As well as try to heal our past life karmic obligations. We were all in the light before we were in our current lives. This is all from getwisdom.com and it makes the most sense of anything I've found to date

[EFO]

Re: WINNERS AND LOSERS, Is there a better way?

The three pillars that our society is based (politic,economic and religion) are "build" on competition - winning/losing,so on duality/polarity and having an equilibrium/balance point.

Allan Watts,David Lynch and others speak about NOTHINGNESS and explain summary what is mean,but is hard to conceptualized it over society,only at individual level.

That NOTHINGNESS that give bliss compared with every day society is NEUTRALITY field.The neutrality field could be compared with Tesla's Continuous Current (not AC or DC).If we do not compete to each other,lose our ego,recognize our own abilities and cooperate with others will crumble everything we now today.

With a little effort it can be done.

[Baby Steps]

The only way to build that civilisation, that functions better, and moves beyond that social Darwinism, is to keep getting it wrong, until enough people realise how to manifest a better way.

Competition as a way of producing new models of how to do things is great, but in future we will turn away from the idea that the 'losers' have to suffer and die, that is just a medieval echo.

The human instinct for sharing and caring is fundamental- a product of competitive evolution.It , as a social model, continually in balance - or competition - with a more individualistic model. That continual review/choice/competition is healthy for society, hopefully.

[thepainterdoug]

thanks all for your comments. Again it seems we cannot avoid the thoughts that there is something to fix. And perhaps that desire is baked into the cake we all live. Those who crossed over have said its all brilliantly perfect. Everything!! That they saw their life in a new way, all its so called mistakes and meaningless feelings newly understood. So I guess whatever it is we are living, is moving along as it should be.

[Patient]

Recently in my life, I feel that I have been able to conquer and control one problem that we are faced with. Our ego.

But with your ego in complete control, life here becomes very difficult.

With your ego in check, you become very calm and passive. It is very difficult to live in a competing world when you feel no need to compete. You get run over by many things.

With love for all people and all things and thus being able to quickly forgive those around us, again we are run over and taken advantage of by others. In some cases, these actions allows one to teach another a valuable lesson. But those opportunities may be rare as many people will not always see.

So, there is a balance that must be found. This life with day and night, black and white, heavy and light, everything seems to depend upon a balance.

With every lesson learned, we must apply it to the scale and find the correct balance.

Empathy, tolerance, patience and aggression still all have a part to play. But when balanced with ego and love and brought to our hearts with empathy, we should be able to find the right choice in all matters.

[thepainterdoug]

The best thing I read on the Ego was "The False Center", by OSHO. Osho reminds us the ego can never be eliminated or defeated, only observed. To observe it in daily life is monumental, like an unruly kid by your side, everywhere you go, you can only keep an eye on it as it acts out.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
The best thing I read on the Ego was "The False Center", by OSHO. Osho reminds us the ego can never be eliminated or defeated, only observed. To observe it in daily life is monumental, like an unruly kid by your side, everywhere you go, you can only keep an eye on it as it acts out.

Once one learns how to observe it and keep an eye on it, they automatically separate them "self" from it, which leads to not reacting to it. Not reacting to it, eventually leads to it not being able to "feed" (justify) itself on your reactions, and then you can begin to form a proper relationship with it.

Your spirit and your ego are intended to work seamlessly together, with the ego poking its head up here and there to remind you to feed your body well, get sleep when it is needed, heighten your physical strength and local awareness when a real physical danger is present, etc.

It is mostly inadequate for making daily decisions and is completely blind as a long term guidance tool, for that we need to be following our spirit ... but first you have to find your spirit, and that is often done once the obnoxious chattering of a constant ego has been able to die down into its appropriate place.



The main topic is like a double edged sword ... "is there something to do?" - well yes and no - it may depend on who you ask. If you observe it from the point of view that you need to relax into your self, become a passive observer of self, stop reacting in fear, then it seems like there's things to get done! Another way to look at it is all those things are actually a reduction of doing things that you are doing, and not a thing you have to "do".

I do feel that things are moving along as they should be, the ego's "discomfort" doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of progress, and often it does indicate progress. Labour pains are inevitable; controlled breathing and calming the mind can help ease it.

Good discussion topic!

[TargeT]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
I do feel that things are moving along as they should be, the ego's "discomfort" doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of progress, and often it does indicate progress. Labour pains are inevitable; controlled breathing and calming the mind can help ease it.

I totally agree and am frankly a bit concerned about the attitude that "we area headed down, we need external help (aliens, angels etc..)" nature doesn't do that, it's a balance that can swing to one side or the other a bit, but it always corrects from my observation.

It's always darkest before the dawn, I think we are at that point and headed to dawn.

[Mike]

The Buddha said "life is suffering". He was right. Another way of saying that is "life is unfair", like the thread is suggesting.

Some will be tall, some short, some attractive, some unattractive, some intelligent, some unintelligent, some athletic, some unathletic, and so on.

These are existential conditions of life. Meaning, these are things we all experience and deal with on some level.

This can be a real problem. People get can bitter, resentful, angry, and violent over this. The problem we are seeing now, in my view, is that people are confusing naturally occurring, existential conditions of life with "oppression" and "inequality". Of course there is oppression and inequality, and it requires some solutions; I'm not saying we shouldn't do anything about it. What I am saying is that we don't know what to do about it. Once you start tinkering with societal norms you can very easily create much worse problems than the ones you're trying to resolve. That's never been more obvious than it is now, particularly here in the U.S.

So, it's important to be clear on which problems are being created by society and which ones are existentially originated. Here in the U.S., there are way more white people than black people, for example. That's just an existential fact. Does that create certain advantages for whites? Of course. Is that a sinister, racist phenomena? Not necessarily! Should something be done about those advantages? Maybe! But thought reform, rioting, cancel culture, and Marxism shouldn't be involved in that plan.

Everyone should have an equal opportunity to do the best they can possibly do with what they've been given by God; that's the type of equality we should be striving for, imo. The Communist/Marxist doctrine of equal outcomes is something else entirely and should be avoided at all costs. We know what happens when that type ideology of is implemented.

Switching gears a little:
Existential discomfort is also being mistaken for all manner of "disorders" these days. There's an endless list of them. There's anxiety disorders, depressive disorders, bipolar disorders, etc. We've been lulled into a sense of security that suggests our natural state should be comfort. Not true. Entropy is threatening all things at all times, including our mental health. The question shouldn't be why am I feeling anxiety? ; the question should be why isn't everyone insane all the time? It's a miracle that the world isn't in a perpetual state of chaos. And if you think what we have now is serious chaos, it's because you are severely imaginatively impaired! It could and likely should be infinitely worse. The fact that it isn't is a real testimony to our culture's durability


I'm not suggesting that mental illness doesn't exist. Of course it does. But there is a significant population of people now who are mistaking their existential discomfort for some kind of disorder. They refuse to take responsibility for themselves and need something to blame. When I was a teenager it was A.D.D. We all professed to have it at one time or another. It was the perfect excuse for nearly everything. Didn't do your homework?- A.D.D. Don't have a job?- A.D.D. Late for practice? - A.D.D. I knew maybe 1 or 2 people that actually had it; the rest were just lazy flakes.

So, life is unfair, yes. Some of those unfair conditions can be improved, and some can't. Determining which is which seems like the first logical step in moving forward. We, collectively, need to learn sane, coherent strategies to deal with the inevitable existential challenges we have to face and can't really change; and we need to invent sane, coherent solutions for the things we can.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Man is not like the animals, and so the plight of the natural world does not apply to him.

We live in a false world, not a natural world. We are fenced in and we are not free.

We are captured at birth and saddled with a million dollar debt. That is how we start life - in debt.

We are forced to partake of this false world whether we want to or not. There is no where to go if we choose not to participate.

Our future is mapped out for us, and the illusion of choice is the ability to choose one of thousands of 'job types'.

Our lives are reduced to the coveting of the one thing we do not need - money. Another ironic twist in the sad drama that is humanity.

We are made to stand atop our parents and carry forth their legacies armed with the same programming that got them nowhere.

Born into bondage we know nothing of freedom. A freedom the entire natural world enjoys every minute of every day.

No one wins in this game, unless you accept the game as somehow real and true and natural. It is not.

There are no winners here because the game is a game and we are not NPCs.

[EFO]

The Illusion of MONEY, TIME & EGO - Alan Watts
(10:36 min.)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=dYSQ1NF1hvw

[Ernie Nemeth]

Yes, there is a better way.

First, it must be understood that we have been programmed and that we have not, in a long time, even been able to understand freedom.

Second, we must understand that we must de-program before we are capable of even beginning a talk about 'another' way.

Third, deprogramming is simple: we must each experience the 'work of life'. Each must kill a meal: hunt it, prepare it, cook it, and eat it. If the death and skinning of an animal disgusts to the point of nausea then a longer period of de-programming is necessary: a season of farming might do, for example. But in the end everyone must kill a meal because that is real, that is life.

Fourth, and so forth...each must mine for coal, drill for oil, work in a refinery or steel mill, trudge along with the factory workers, build a house, shovel out a pig pen, fight a forest fire, etc., etc., etc.

Some of these tasks need only be done once to be effective. Others may require longer stays...

Soon, the experiences will transform and will bring back an appreciation for all the essential tasks that are still performed every day by fewer and fewer citizens so that all the superfluous, non-essential, trivial jobs for the masses can even exist.

That is just to deprogram from this false world and its false priorities. Who knows, once an appreciation for reality is truly embedded in our psyches again, we might still choose to live as we do. At least it would then be an honest choice.

[Tyy1907]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
I do feel that things are moving along as they should be, the ego's "discomfort" doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of progress, and often it does indicate progress. Labour pains are inevitable; controlled breathing and calming the mind can help ease it.

I totally agree and am frankly a bit concerned about the attitude that "we area headed down, we need external help (aliens, angels etc..)" nature doesn't do that, it's a balance that can swing to one side or the other a bit, but it always corrects from my observation.

It's always darkest before the dawn, I think we are at that point and headed to dawn.

Something that jumps out at me here is that we think God/Source is external when in fact it is within us as part of our makeup. That's part of the conundrum is being told that's separate. It feels separate cause our bodies/DNA has been altered. Our receivers are damaged on all of us to varying degrees. Highly psychic/intuitives less so.

And adding to the difficulty is we need to cultivate this reconnection bit by bit through strong intention. I can say it is making daily life easier. Tapping into the limitless here is what I'm talking about.

[TargeT]

Posted by Tyy1907 (here)

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
I do feel that things are moving along as they should be, the ego's "discomfort" doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of progress, and often it does indicate progress. Labour pains are inevitable; controlled breathing and calming the mind can help ease it.

I totally agree and am frankly a bit concerned about the attitude that "we area headed down, we need external help (aliens, angels etc..)" nature doesn't do that, it's a balance that can swing to one side or the other a bit, but it always corrects from my observation.

It's always darkest before the dawn, I think we are at that point and headed to dawn.

Something that jumps out at me here is that we think God/Source is external when in fact it is within us as part of our makeup. That's part of the conundrum is being told that's separate. It feels separate cause our bodies/DNA has been altered. Our receivers are damaged on all of us to varying degrees. Highly psychic/intuitives less so.

And adding to the difficulty is we need to cultivate this reconnection bit by bit through strong intention. I can say it is making daily life easier. Tapping into the limitless here is what I'm talking about.

I feel this way as well, but don't view it as an absolute conclusion; just my theory for now.

[thepainterdoug]

Ernie said/ A freedom the entire natural world enjoys every minute of every day.

But earnie, that freedom is not pretty. Not what we all want. Is it? If we had that freedom, I could kill the weak around me, take my neighbors wife and so on.
can you explain better what you mean by" the freedom the natural world enjoys"?

[Craig]

For all the talk of there must be pain to experience growth, or you must go through negativity before progressing forward etc, does it actually ever end? I appear to be coming to my own internal realisation that in this incarnation it can never end, we for a better term are currently experiencing hell at various levels some worse than others, is it a karmic payback for past indiscretions? It appears to be reaching a summit, but I feel like the mountain climber that breaches to top only to discover a bigger mountain just beyond we are still have much further to go.

Positive mind and thought is all good etc or if you currently experiencing difficulty then progression must be made but it reminds me of the carrot and the donkey, we will never break through to some magical mystic version of heaven but yet be driven by the idea that we must experience what we experience now to entitle us to some spiritual growth...

Ernie above expressed better than i could but yes I think we are trapped in something that i can't explain.

And yet again, life goes on so i need to go back to the charade so i can clothe and feed my family whilst i am lucky enough to be able to do so.