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Thread: Conspiracy is Not a Theory

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    Avalon Member Satori's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conspiracy is Not a Theory

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    But what if there was no conspiracy, just the theory that there was one?
    As a legal matter, a conspiracy involves two or more people agreeing to commit an illegal or unlawful act and, then, one or more of the conspirators taking at least one overt step or action towards the completion of such act. The steps or actions taken towards completion of the intended illegal or unlawful act need not themselves be illegal or unlawful.

    Conspiracy to commit a crime, coupled with at least one overt act in furtherance thereof, is itself a crime, even if the planned underlying crime is not carried out for whatever reason.

    Consider: if I agree with at least one other person to rob a bank and under the agreement I am to lawfully obtain the getaway car and the other is to lawfully obtain a handgun, and we both do that and get in the car and drive to the bank with the intent to rob it, but before we rob the bank, someone else, who we do not know and never spoke to, robs the bank have I and my co-conspirator committed a crime in fact? In theory? Not at all?

    Who would know of the conspiracy if we keep our mouths shut? But, even if no one knows, did we commit a crime and get away with it?

    Should conspiracy be a crime standing alone?

    By the way, there is such a thing as civil conspiracy where the wrongful act is not illegal or criminal, but rather wrongful as, for example, it harms someone’s civil interests.

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    Default Re: Conspiracy is Not a Theory

    Quote Posted by Satori (here)

    Consider: if I agree with at least one other person to rob a bank and under the agreement I am to lawfully obtain the getaway car and the other is to lawfully obtain a handgun, and we both do that and get in the car and drive to the bank with the intent to rob it, but before we rob the bank, someone else, who we do not know and never spoke to, robs the bank have I and my co-conspirator committed a crime in fact? In theory? Not at all?
    A crime in fact? Yes, the crime in this case was conspiracy to commit a crime.
    In theory? No need to get into theories. If all the details you related were facts then yes a crime was committed.
    Not at all? Yes a crime was committed.

    Quote Who would know of the conspiracy if we keep our mouths shut?
    No one would know, but that doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed. They are two different things.


    Quote But, even if no one knows, did we commit a crime and get away with it?
    Yes you did commit a crime, and you got away with the crime of conspiracy. You didn't get away with the crime of robbing a bank.

    Quote Should conspiracy be a crime standing alone?
    According to your definition at the top conspiracy is a crime standing alone.

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    Default Re: Conspiracy is Not a Theory

    Quote Is it fair to say then that :
    To conspire is to gather together and make plans in secret with the willful intent of committing a crime. Collusion is the legal charge of committing the crime of conspiracy.
    No, the legal charge is conspiracy to commit xxxx (whatever the crime was). Collusion is not a legal term. And in order to be charged with conspiracy to commit, the group or an individual from the group has to take at least one definitive step to put the plan into action.

    BTW, a "conspiracy theory" is a theory that a conspiracy exists to do something. If I believe that the PTB are conspiring to deprive me of my favorite brand of toothpaste in order to make me get cavities so their dentist can implant a listening device in me, that's a conspiracy theory, even if I'm the only one who believes it. Because my theory is that there's this conspiracy...

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    Default Re: Conspiracy is Not a Theory

    Quote Posted by Old Student (here)

    BTW, a "conspiracy theory" is a theory that a conspiracy exists to do something. If I believe that the PTB are conspiring to deprive me of my favorite brand of toothpaste in order to make me get cavities so their dentist can implant a listening device in me, that's a conspiracy theory, even if I'm the only one who believes it. Because my theory is that there's this conspiracy...
    Love it!

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    France Avalon Member araucaria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conspiracy is Not a Theory

    People get convicted for conspiracy all the time. The thing is real enough. Julius Caesar was murdered by a bunch of conspirators. The modern issue is based on whether a similar thing happened to JFK, not exactly murder in plain sight, but hidden in plain sight. ‘Conspiracy theory’ was invented by the CIA to cloud that issue.

    Something that is definitely not theory, but for a long time hidden in plain sight behind the language of economics that few ordinary citizens understand at all, myself included, is the failure of capitalism; see this Guardian article from today: https://www.theguardian.com/business...s-billionaires
    Quote The world’s billionaires “did extremely well” during the coronavirus pandemic, growing their already-huge fortunes to a record high of $10.2tn (£7.8tn). (…)
    Stadler said billionaires typically have “significant risk appetite” and were confident to gamble some of their considerable fortunes.

    Luke Hilyard, executive director of the High Pay Centre, a thinktank that focuses on excessive pay, said the “extreme wealth concentration is an ugly phenomenon from a moral perspective, but it’s also economically and socially destructive”.
    “Billionaire wealth equates to a fortune almost impossible to spend over multiple lifetimes of absolute luxury,” Hilyard said. “Anyone accumulating riches on this scale could easily afford to raise the pay of the employees who generate their wealth, or contribute a great deal more in taxes to support vital public services, while remaining very well rewarded for whatever successes they’ve achieved.
    “The findings from the UBS report showing that the super-rich are getting even richer are a sign that capitalism isn’t working as it should.”

    Stadler said the fact that billionaire wealth had increased so much at a time when hundreds of millions of people around the world are struggling could lead to public and political anger. “Is there a risk they may be singled out by society? Yes,” he said. “Are they aware of it? Yes.”

    Stadler has previously warned that the yawning inequality gap between rich and poor could lead to a “strike back”.

    Billionaires’ fortunes have swelled by $4.2bn (or 70%) in the three years since Stadler warned about the threat of a global uprising against the super-rich. “We’re at an inflection point,” Stadler said. “Wealth concentration is as high as in 1905, this is something billionaires are concerned about. The problem is the power of interest on interest – that makes big money bigger and, the question is to what extent is that sustainable and at what point will society intervene and strike back?”

    The world’s current super-rich people hold the greatest concentration of wealth since the US Gilded Age at the turn of the 20th century, when families such as the Carnegies, Rockefellers and Vanderbilts controlled vast fortunes.
    1905 saw the start of the Russian revolution… All this is not theory. We are at the end of a game of monopoly when only one player is enjoying it and it is time to clear the table and play something else. The question is: can we talk of a conspiracy among individuals of such unbelievable greed and selfishness? Well yes, when ‘families’ become a mafia looking after their collective/class interests. The point is that capitalists have honed their system into one of (class) solidarity that makes their imaginary monster enemy of collectivism look hopelessly inadequate.

    It is asked, ‘At what point will society intervene and strike back?’ When the rest of society becomes united enough to con-spire (literally ‘breathe together’) on an altogether vaster scale, brush this tiny minority aside and reclaim those ten trillion that would put the world to rights. The challenge here is that this revolution on an unprecedented scale has to be carried out not by professional revolutionaries, but by people with the most traditional values of family, love hope & charity. The longer it takes, the harder it gets, or so it seems; because the longer it takes, the more totally inevitable it becomes. There comes an end point for soaking the poor, when you have to resort to soaking the destitute. When the destitute have no one who will employ them, they might well think there is a conspiracy afoot aimed at themselves and others. They are not wrong, for even if you prefer to call it ‘the system’ or ‘the establishment’, ‘western governments’, then there are still two types of people whose attitude is either to seek to undermine that iniquitous system or to uphold it. The pejorative term ’conspiracy theory’ is the other side’s phrase to describe the opposition as infiltrated by them. They prefer it to the word ‘society’ – ‘there is no such thing as society’ said Thatcher. But of course there is; or at least there will be, very soon.


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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Conspiracy is Not a Theory

    I Am A Conspiracy Theorist


    Show notes: https://www.corbettreport.com/?p=38025
    • If you are afraid of being called a conspiracy theorist, then those words are having their intended effect. I will not censor myself to appeal to the Normie McNormiesons of the world. Yes, sometimes I theorize about conspiracies. And guess what? So do you! Now let's discuss some evidence, shall we?
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 7th October 2020 at 18:51.
    ~no need2follow anyone only consider to broaden (y)our horizon of possibilities
    ~new: Stop5G.net & FB groups/Stop5G

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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conspiracy is Not a Theory

    For a higher life form to exist it must have a conspiracy of trillions of lesser lifeforms. As a matter of fact, it could be said that the entire universe conspired together to bring about the conditions necessary for life.

    If all life is a conspiracy, who is the conspirator?
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

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    France Avalon Member araucaria's Avatar
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    Default Re: Conspiracy is Not a Theory

    James Corbett: Yes and no.
    Denotation: “‘Conspiracy theorist’ describes someone who theorizes about some conspiracy.”
    Connotation: ‘wild-eyed crazy’ means someone who all at once believes that the CIA killed JFK, that the moon landings were faked, that 911 was an inside job, that the Pope is a paedophilic Satanist, the president a reptilian shapeshifter…. the whole caboodle, including the endless provably fake stuff touted by the three-letter agencies themselves. Everyone is tarred with the same brush.

    My example for some time has been Al Qaeda as a crime syndicate. Anything and everything that happens is ascribed to a single collective perpetrator, including the actions of poor psychiatric cases unable to get out of their own brainboxes.
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1380340
    This works both ways: the conspiracy theorist is treated in the same way: if you have any doubt about any subject, then you belong to the conspiracy syndicate. You automatically believe everything, from the way out stuff that the likes of the CIA themselves mass produce, to the very specific stuff that you are seeking to address. This is like the lowest common denominator, which counter-intuitively is a rather high number.

    This is why I say the way forward is through the courts. This is where all the generalizations stop. CCC: Crime, Culprit, Circumstance. X is accused of Y, by means of Z. Customized justice.

    All generalizations stop? No: you have class actions, whereby multiple victims form a syndicate. A class action means that X is accused of Y, by means of Z, to the detriment of A, but also, in parallel, B-W. Conspiracy theory is the next step in this process, positing multiple culprits with multiple victims. See this post.


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